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Aleister Crowley on the Sicilian Defence, how he was ahead of his time and how he liked it so much he bought the company

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Offramp

unread,
Mar 21, 2009, 7:37:46 AM3/21/09
to
In The Eastbourne Gazette of 7th March 1894, Aleister Crowley wrote,
after 1.e4 c5:
"This defence has been mightily abused of late. Torrents ow wrath have
been poured on it, but to those who understand it, it is as strong as
one could wish. Personally I always make this reply and throughout the
season have not lost one single game opened in this way."

In fact Crowley liked the opening so much he opened his Abbey of
Thelema at Cefalu in Sicily in 1920, by which time the Sicilian
Defence was a bit more popular.

Alan

undsalsufy

unread,
Mar 21, 2009, 8:08:17 AM3/21/09
to

It's funny, I was just saying to my wife over breakfast that life is a
lot like a game of chess. So Thelema and chess and Sicily all hang
together, do they?

madams

unread,
Mar 21, 2009, 10:11:24 PM3/21/09
to
undsalsufy wrote:
>
> On Mar 21, 1:37 pm, Offramp <alaneobr...@gmail.com> wrote:
.

> > In fact Crowley liked the opening so much he opened his Abbey of
> > Thelema at Cefalu in Sicily in 1920, by which time the Sicilian
> > Defence was a bit more popular.
> >
> > Alan
>
> It's funny, I was just saying to my wife over breakfast that life is a
> lot like a game of chess. So Thelema and chess and Sicily all hang
> together, do they?

I dinnae ken about that mon - but there were a fair guid few who
would've been happy to see Mr Crowley 'hang'..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley

m.

Spencer Primate

unread,
Mar 22, 2009, 7:56:47 AM3/22/09
to
On Mar 22, 2:11 am, madams <micad...@bluesky.au> wrote:
> undsalsufy wrote:
>
> > On Mar 21, 1:37 pm, Offramp <alaneobr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> .
> > > In fact Crowley liked the opening so much he opened his Abbey of
> > > Thelema at Cefalu in Sicily in 1920, by which time the Sicilian
> > > Defence was a bit more popular.
>
> > > Alan
>
> > It's funny, I was just saying to my wife over breakfast that life is a
> > lot like a game of chess. So Thelema and chess and Sicily all hang
> > together, do they?

That would be Enochian Chess.

Perdurabo

Tom

unread,
Mar 22, 2009, 11:45:07 AM3/22/09
to

Or they hang separately. It doesn't matter. Crowley gave up the
serious play of chess in his early twenties because he decided that
chess experts were really nothing but a bunch of bums playing a silly
game.

Not that you couldn't say exactly the same thing about any human
endeavor.

Offramp

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Mar 22, 2009, 2:41:47 PM3/22/09
to
That's quite a good point . As far as I know Crowley never wrote a
single word above Enochian chess.

He clearly considered it a game for duffers.

onec...@comcast.net

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Mar 22, 2009, 6:53:03 PM3/22/09
to

Enochian magic is a system of ceremonial magic based on the evocation
and commanding of various spirits. It is based on the 16th-century
writings of Dr. John Dee and Edward Kelley, who claimed that their
information was delivered to them directly by various angels. Dee's
journals contained the Enochian script, and the table of
correspondences that goes with it. It claims to embrace secrets
contained within the apocryphal Book of Enoch.

History


Origins


Dee and Kelley claim they received these instructions from angels and
wrote them down. This account is taken at face value by most Enochian
occultists. However, some of them have pointed out remarkable
similarities to earlier grimoiric texts such as the Heptameron known
to Dee. Doubts surrounding Kelley in particular have led many non-
occultists to the assumption the whole system was originally a fraud
devised by Kelley in order to receive more financial support from Dee.
The system claims to relate to secrets contained within the apocryphal
Book of Enoch.

Rediscovery


It is not quite clear how much of Enochian magic was put to use by Dee
and Kelley. However, rediscovery of Enochian magic by Samuel Liddell
MacGregor Mathers of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn has sparked
remarkable publicity for it in modern occultism. Enochian as an
operative system is difficult to reconstruct based upon the Sloane
manuscripts, but contemporary occult organizations have attempted to
make it usable. The Golden Dawn was the first, but their knowledge was
based upon only one of Dee's diaries and their planetary, elemental,
or zodiacal attributions are unfounded.

One facet of the rediscovery is Enochian chess, a four-handed variant
of the game played in the Golden Dawn in Mathers' time and revived by
Steve Nichols and chess players in the late twentieth century.

Aleister Crowley, who worked with, and wrote about, Enochian magic
extensively, has contributed much to its comparatively widespread use
today. His first work on the topic was his Liber Chanokh, a
walkthrough to decipher some elements of this system, but his
attention was particularly focused upon the Calls of the Aethyrs. His
visions from these calls formed a document called The Vision and the
Voice, also known as Liber 418.

Today


Compared to other theories of magic, Enochian magic is strikingly
complex, beautiful and difficult to understand. Also, parts of the
original manuscripts written by Dee have been lost, mainly due to a
fire in his house after his death, thus key parts of the system are
missing. This has allowed numerous interpretations to arise, some of
which have solidified into schools of thought with individual bodies
of interpretative literature.

Enochian Magic forms the backbone of both the Crowley and Golden Dawn
systems of Magic. Latest theories include that John Dee knew of the
Slavonic, Book of the Secrets of Enoch, as well as the Ethiopic Book
of Enoch. Many individual workers or very small groups prefer Enochian
magic to other forms as the ceremonial scale required is less than
needed for Masonic style ritual work.

Anton LaVey's book The Satanic Bible includes a section of 'Enochian
Keys' purported to have been part of the lost manuscripts of Dr.
Dee's, though this has not been verified.

Popular culture

Industrial band Penal Colony released a song and accompanying video
named "Freemasons of Enochian Magick".

onec...@comcast.net

unread,
Mar 22, 2009, 7:01:40 PM3/22/09
to
On Mar 22, 2:41 pm, Offramp <alaneobr...@gmail.com> wrote:

I refer the reader to several facts, there are these two games by
Crowley, and also the article at Chessville about his later days at
Hastings.

http://www.chessville.com/misc/History/PastPawns/AleisterCrowleyChessMaster.htm

an article by Robert T. Tuohey

// Phil Innes

========

Crowley,A - NN [B30]

1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 g6 4.Bc4 e6 5.d4 cxd4 6.cxd4 Bg7 7.e5 d5 8.Bb5
Qa5+ 9.Nc3 a6 10.Bxc6+ bxc6 11.Bd2 Qc7 12.Ng5 f6 13.exf6 Nxf6 14.0-0
0-0 15.Qe2 e5 16.dxe5 Ng4 17.f4 Qb6+ 18.Kh1 a5 19.Na4 Qa7 20.e6 Nf6
21.Rac1 Ba6 22.Qe5 Ng4 23.Qe1 Bxf1 24.Nc5 Bc4 25.e7 Qxc5 26.Qe6+ Kh8
27.Nf7+ Rxf7 28.Qxf7 0-1

Crowley,A - Shoosmith,H [C37]
1894

1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.Bc4 C37 KGA: King's knight's gambit
4...d6 5.0-0 h6 6.d4 Ne7 7.Nc3 Bg7 8.e5 OOB 8...d5 9.Bb3 c6 10.Ne2 Ng6
11.g3 g4 12.Nxf4 Nxf4 13.Bxf4 gxf3 14.Qxf3 Be6 15.c3 Nd7 16.Bc2 Nf8
17.Qh5 Qd7 18.Bd2 Bg4 19.Qh4 Ng6 20.Bxg6 fxg6 21.e6 Bxe6 22.Rae1 g5?
23.Qg4 0-0-0 24.Rxe6 h5 25.Qe2 h4 26.Bxg5 Rdg8?? 27.Re7 Qh3 28.g4
Bxd4+ 29.cxd4 Rxg5 30.Re8+ Rxe8 31.Qxe8+ Kc7 32.Qe7+ 1-0

Offramp

unread,
Mar 23, 2009, 8:46:50 AM3/23/09
to
On Mar 22, 10:53 pm, onech...@comcast.net wrote:
> On Mar 22, 2:41 pm, Offramp <alaneobr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > That's quite a good point . As far as I know Crowley never wrote a
> > single word above Enochian chess.
>
> > He clearly considered it a game for duffers.
>
> Enochian magic is a system of ceremonial magic ....

Thank you for that interesting disquisition.
Know anything about Enochian Chess?
I do.

tkin...@chittenden.com

unread,
Mar 25, 2009, 10:24:23 AM3/25/09
to
On Mar 21, 8:08 am, undsalsufy <undsals...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's funny, I was just saying to my wife over breakfast that life is a
> lot like a game of chess.

“I don’t think so. The thing about chess that used to intrigue me,
and ended by just being boring, is that there’s nothing remotely like
it in life.” — Norman Mailer, "The Naked and the Dead" (1948)

Tom

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 12:01:36 AM3/26/09
to


If you're going to cut and paste, at least cite your source. Do you
personally know anything about Enoichian Chess or are you limited
solely to what you can find on line to copy?

Offramp

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 6:26:52 AM3/26/09
to

Enochian chess is 4-handed. That means there are 4 kings, and to me it
always looks as if there is not enough room on an 8x8 board for 4
kings. It looks more like Warlords http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warlords_(arcade_game)
than chess.

igd

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 8:00:07 AM3/26/09
to
Its based on Chatturanga(sp?) or Chaturaji, Indian 4 handed chess.
There's a fairly good book on the topic by Christine Zalewski that was
published a few years back.

agent of Truth

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Mar 26, 2009, 9:24:00 AM3/26/09
to
On Mar 25, 11:24 pm, tkings...@chittenden.com wrote:
> On Mar 21, 8:08 am, undsalsufy <undsals...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > It's funny, I was just saying to my wife over breakfast that life is a
> > lot like a game of chess.

king beds queen, not in her rule book?

>
>   “I don’t think so. The thing about chess that used to intrigue me,
> and ended by just being boring, is that there’s nothing remotely like
> it in life.” — Norman Mailer, "The Naked and the Dead" (1948)

kings, queens, castles...
jay z, latisha, pb mansion?

agent of Truth

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 10:32:45 AM3/26/09
to
On Mar 25, 11:24 pm, tkings...@chittenden.com wrote:

fast subtle logic processes control people yet are not evident in most
with no self conscious. when the processes are kept self conscious,
there is a time of keeping self in check by that, until naturalness
grows to return differently.

this is a repeat cycle. we're meaning to be getting better at both
sides of the game in each cycle. (it is a spiral)

chess falls flat in the real texture of experience department.

Robert Scott Martin

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 10:50:00 AM3/26/09
to
>> Know anything about Enochian Chess?

In article <c5fa118e-541a-4165...@v37g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
Offramp <alane...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Enochian chess is 4-handed. That means there are 4 kings, and to me it
>always looks as if there is not enough room on an 8x8 board for 4
>kings.

Since each of the four sides is roughly half the number of pieces as
conventional chess, it evens out. Setting up the kings can be annoying
though.

>It looks more like Warlords
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warlords_(arcade_game)
>than chess.

I've always thought that too, although I'd say "warlords looks more like
enochian chess." It's simply a version that renders all four elemental
armies passive obstacles for the divine spark to overcome -- compare to
conventional enochian chess where ptah is immobile.

Like many of the more interesting systems it pivots between pure
divination and active exercise, although my very limited work with it has
led to no "chess injuries" much less prizes. Might be something to do with
using a Tim-Mee Galaxy Laser Team (google) instead of cardboard aegypto.

But then again it might not.


agent of Truth

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 10:59:24 AM3/26/09
to
On Mar 26, 7:26 pm, Offramp <alaneobr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 23, 12:46 pm, Offramp <alaneobr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 22, 10:53 pm, onech...@comcast.net wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 22, 2:41 pm, Offramp <alaneobr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > That's quite a good point . As far as I know Crowley never wrote a
> > > > single word above Enochian chess.
>
> > > > He clearly considered it a game for duffers.
>
> > > Enochian magic is a system of ceremonial magic ....
>
> > Thank you for that interesting disquisition.
> > Know anything about Enochian Chess?
> > I do.
>
> Enochian chess is 4-handed.

Finally, a game my friends can play.

Bassos

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 1:37:19 PM3/26/09
to

"Robert Scott Martin" <gl...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:gqg4mo$a44$1...@reader1.panix.com...

>>> Know anything about Enochian Chess?
>
> In article
> <c5fa118e-541a-4165...@v37g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
> Offramp <alane...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Enochian chess is 4-handed. That means there are 4 kings, and to me it
>>always looks as if there is not enough room on an 8x8 board for 4
>>kings.
>
> Since each of the four sides is roughly half the number of pieces as
> conventional chess, it evens out. Setting up the kings can be annoying
> though.

Are those setups for your kings or the opponents ?

Do you play a character yourself ?

Never actually played a game of enochian chess.
Did actually not think any 'board game' could capture some essence.

Is there a boardgame ?

>>It looks more like Warlords
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warlords_(arcade_game)
>>than chess.

Warlords 4 is actually not that bad.

A bit in the category of
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master_of_Magic
or
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lords_of_Magic

A bit upgraded.

> I've always thought that too, although I'd say "warlords looks more like
> enochian chess." It's simply a version that renders all four elemental
> armies passive obstacles for the divine spark to overcome -- compare to
> conventional enochian chess where ptah is immobile.

Ptah is always dreaming and so can you.

> Like many of the more interesting systems it pivots between pure
> divination and active exercise, although my very limited work with it has
> led to no "chess injuries" much less prizes. Might be something to do with
> using a Tim-Mee Galaxy Laser Team (google) instead of cardboard aegypto.
>
> But then again it might not.

So how does it work ?

I can understand actual enochian chess, but a boardgame seems quite
interesting as a testing ground.

Robert Scott Martin

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 2:19:10 PM3/26/09
to
>>>> Know anything about Enochian Chess?

In article <49cbbd57$0$29025$e4fe...@dreader13.news.xs4all.nl>,


Bassos <zebazz_nope at zonnet.nl> wrote:

>Are those setups for your kings or the opponents ?
>Do you play a character yourself ?

>Is there a boardgame ?

>So how does it work ?
>I can understand actual enochian chess, but a boardgame seems quite
>interesting as a testing ground.

All good questions. I realize now (epimetheus "entirely forgotten in the
philosophy of martin heidegger") that background already posted to this
thread provides a lot of detail on enochian and a lot on chess but nothing
on the moist scantily-mentionable where they meet.

Enochian Chess is a divinatory/operative system that looks a lot like
conventional chess. Four armies for the four elements: K, Q, R (x1), B
(x1), N (x1), P (x4). Each deploys facing a different compass point so its
flank is open to one neighbor and in turn advances toward the other. Some
different movement rules. May be played solo, two-handed (opposite
corners) or four-handed. Board is an enochian "city of pyramids" arrayed
according to the element presiding over the operation. Some different
movement, promotion & capture rules. Object is to capture the "goal"
square (wherein lurks the Ptah piece) or eradicate opposition.

I think one of the Zelewskis described the game as a diagram of the
conflux of forces in pursuit of the goal across the flashing table of the
world -- the winner is important (success --> proof) but for divinatory
purposes the game log is the gist. What's really exciting about it is the
strategic element. Most people cast the planetary angles very passively (I
know you don't) but I find the competitive aspect -- the moves and
struggle of king vs brother king -- very er "evocative." At least as
revelatory as birdwatching and I was always fond of those little plastic
spacemen.

>Warlords 4 is actually not that bad.

We never had that one but I loved it. It was my speed & the paddle
controller added novelty.

>Ptah is always dreaming and so can you.

The game ends when the player wakes up, "chess injuries" revealed. I use
the little spacefighter for the ptah piece -- that particular lump of
plastic has gotten pretty rare, people fight hard to claim it.

Bassos

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 2:31:23 PM3/26/09
to

"Robert Scott Martin" <gl...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:gqgguu$pev$1...@reader1.panix.com...

>>>>> Know anything about Enochian Chess?
>
> In article <49cbbd57$0$29025$e4fe...@dreader13.news.xs4all.nl>,
> Bassos <zebazz_nope at zonnet.nl> wrote:
>
>>Are those setups for your kings or the opponents ?
>>Do you play a character yourself ?
>>Is there a boardgame ?
>>So how does it work ?
>>I can understand actual enochian chess, but a boardgame seems quite
>>interesting as a testing ground.
>
> All good questions.

in this case just random ones.
(as far as random is possible; it is not)

> I realize now (epimetheus "entirely forgotten in the
> philosophy of martin heidegger") that background already posted to this
> thread provides a lot of detail on enochian and a lot on chess but nothing
> on the moist scantily-mentionable where they meet.

I touched them tablets but do not live them, so my games are only about
exploration.

It looks very interesting.

> I think one of the Zelewskis described the game as a diagram of the
> conflux of forces in pursuit of the goal across the flashing table of the
> world -- the winner is important (success --> proof) but for divinatory
> purposes the game log is the gist.

I, perhaps cos of my dancing feel like there is no winning
There is dancing.

tkin...@chittenden.com

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 2:35:33 PM3/26/09
to
On Mar 26, 10:32 am, agent of Truth <kosmicg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 25, 11:24 pm, tkings...@chittenden.com wrote:
>
> > On Mar 21, 8:08 am, undsalsufy <undsals...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > It's funny, I was just saying to my wife over breakfast that life is a
> > > lot like a game of chess.
>
> >   “I don’t think so. The thing about chess that used to intrigue me,
> > and ended by just being boring, is that there’s nothing remotely like
> > it in life.” — Norman Mailer, "The Naked and the Dead" (1948)
>
> fast subtle logic processes control people yet are not evident in most
> with no self conscious.

When I was an awkward adolescent, I was quite self-conscious. But I
grew to be fairly relaxed and self-confident as an adult.

>  when the processes are kept self conscious,
> there is a time of keeping self in check by that, until naturalness
> grows to return differently.

Of course, anticipating infinity is a self-cancelling thought form.

> this is a repeat cycle.  we're meaning to be getting better at both
> sides of the game in each cycle. (it is a spiral)

Or a tesseract. In either case, nothing actually makes any sense, we
merely understand it.

> chess falls flat in the real texture of experience department.

For real texture, nothing beats herringbone tweed.

Robert Scott Martin

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 2:35:48 PM3/26/09
to
In article <49cbca03$0$3707$e4fe...@dreader29.news.xs4all.nl>,

Bassos <zebazz_nope at zonnet.nl> wrote:

[I still owe you replies elsewhere.]

>I, perhaps cos of my dancing feel like there is no winning
>There is dancing.

It's like the tango; nobody actually dies.


clown n

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 3:09:43 PM3/26/09
to
On Mar 27, 3:35 am, tkings...@chittenden.com wrote:
> On Mar 26, 10:32 am, agent of Truth <kosmicg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 25, 11:24 pm, tkings...@chittenden.com wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 21, 8:08 am, undsalsufy <undsals...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > It's funny, I was just saying to my wife over breakfast that life is a
> > > > lot like a game of chess.
>
> > >   “I don’t think so. The thing about chess that used to intrigue me,
> > > and ended by just being boring, is that there’s nothing remotely like
> > > it in life.” — Norman Mailer, "The Naked and the Dead" (1948)
>
> > fast subtle logic processes control people yet are not evident in most
> > with no self conscious.
>
>   When I was an awkward adolescent, I was quite self-conscious. But I
> grew to be fairly relaxed and self-confident as an adult.
>

I'm lucky for the past 10 years I haven't sought friends, at first
more the self-consciousness (everyone's cool and I wanna primal
screeam, cry, run away...)...... now that is pretty minor compared to
my own dislike repulsion or disinterest in em.

Who I know are pretty uncool and that's cool. I mean they fit in and
are even popular but they definitely aren't image conscious like
americanised australian men are become. everyone fits who isn't just
a fucktard annoyance factor.

> >  when the processes are kept self conscious,
> > there is a time of keeping self in check by that, until naturalness
> > grows to return differently.
>
>   Of course, anticipating infinity is a self-cancelling thought form.

yes and it can work, none the less, do you agree?

tkin...@chittenden.com

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 3:37:33 PM3/26/09
to
On Mar 26, 3:09 pm, clown n <kosmicg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 27, 3:35 am, tkings...@chittenden.com wrote:
>
> >   Of course, anticipating infinity is a self-cancelling thought form.
>
> yes and it can work, none the less, do you agree?

No. And "nonetheless" is one word.

Bassos

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 3:42:06 PM3/26/09
to

"Robert Scott Martin" <gl...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:gqghu4$5tf$1...@reader1.panix.com...

I prefer expressionistic dancing.
Being the music.

Sometimes it is not music at all, it is a colour.

Sometimes.


clown n

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 3:54:10 PM3/26/09
to

awkward... to tell you this, but canceling is canceling. :)

clown n

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 4:08:03 PM3/26/09
to

none the less are three words too, and the one word nonetheless
means... none the less. I think reality says I'm right but normality
says I made an irregularity, so thanks. I wondered if it was one word
or with -'s between them, so... left it.

*running*

loosen up anyway, I'm tired of weeding you fucktardo's (sp?) out of
the few

tkin...@chittenden.com

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 4:13:20 PM3/26/09
to

My Webster's says either spelling is correct. I believe the Brits
tend more toward the single "L" while we Yanks use the double.

clown n

unread,
Mar 26, 2009, 4:15:58 PM3/26/09
to
On Mar 27, 5:08 am, clown n <kosmicg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 27, 4:54 am, clown n <kosmicg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 27, 4:37 am, tkings...@chittenden.com wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 26, 3:09 pm, clown n <kosmicg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Mar 27, 3:35 am, tkings...@chittenden.com wrote:
>
> > > > >   Of course, anticipating infinity is a self-cancelling thought form.
>
> > > > yes and it can work, none the less, do you agree?
>
> > >   No. And "nonetheless" is one word.
>
> > awkward... to tell you this, but canceling is canceling. :)
>

they both correct, dictionary.com judges... sorry.
BUT canceling IS normal, so
welcome to the dark side.

SAT W-7

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Mar 26, 2009, 11:36:49 PM3/26/09
to
Jimmy Page of Led Zepplin really liked this guy , he bought his castle
in the I970's ...

tkin...@chittenden.com

unread,
Mar 27, 2009, 12:42:03 PM3/27/09
to
On Mar 26, 11:36 pm, Sin...@webtv.net (SAT W-7) wrote:
> Jimmy Page of Led Zepplin really liked this guy , he bought his castle
> in the I970's ...

Ah, that explains all the weird stuff you hear when playing
"Stairway to Heaven" backwards:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bzTyieLvT0

;-)

bul...@gmail.com

unread,
Mar 27, 2009, 5:49:36 PM3/27/09
to

Have you got that back-to-front? "Cancelling" is certainly the
standard spelling in the UK, and I thought doubling consonants
generally is commoner here.

SAT W-7

unread,
Mar 28, 2009, 1:03:35 AM3/28/09
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The song Stairway to Heaven backwards , people say it says , " i live
for Satan " ??
something like that but i am not sure i belive it.
I would have to hear it for myself and i can not play cd's backward ..
If anything why wouldn't they say " buy more albums " so they can make
more money....

help bot

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Mar 28, 2009, 1:43:34 AM3/28/09
to


Some book says the love of money is the
root of all evil... but what has this to do with
listening to songs played backwards?

No, it is self-evident that those peole need
jobs-- something to do so they aren't stuck
pulling the wings off of flies, playing songs
backwards to try and improve the lyrics, or
mixing chocolate and pancake syrup to
see what it tastes like (very sweet, but also
sticky and with just a hint of butter).


-- help bot


tkin...@chittenden.com

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Mar 28, 2009, 10:56:21 AM3/28/09
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On Mar 28, 1:03 am, Sin...@webtv.net (SAT W-7) wrote:
> The song Stairway to Heaven backwards , people say it says  ,  " i live
> for Satan " ??

The verse beginning "If there's a bustle in your hedgerow" when
played backwards sounds something like this:

Oh, here's to my sweet Satan
The one whose little path will make me sad
Whose power is Satan
He'll give you, give you 666
There was a little toolshed
Where you made us suffer, sad Satan

> something like that but i am not sure i belive it.

You can believe that it sounds like that, but I would not advise
believing that Robert Plant or Jimmy Page put it there deliberately.
They just wrote lyrics that happened to sound that way backwards by
mere chance. It's happened over and over again, for example on the
Beatles' white album "Number 9" coming out as "Turn me on, dead man,"
or a part of the Bob Dylan song "If Dogs Run Free" reversing to "If
Mars invades us."

> I would have to hear it for myself and i can not play cd's backward ..

That's why I provided the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bzTyieLvT0

YouTube has zillions of backwards songs and speeches, including one
in which the Jonas Brothers sing "I speak for Satan!", and another
with Rev. Jimmy Swaggart saying "Hail, Satan!" Play enough stuff
backwards and you can find virtually anything. I'm sure somewhere in
their collected, reversed speeches one could find Richard Nixon
saying "I actually _am_ a crook," Stalin praising capitalism, or Adolf
Hilter reciting the bar mitzvah.

>   If anything why wouldn't they say " buy more albums " so they can make
> more money....

Very good! In the 1950s the movie industry tried such a sneaky
subliminal technique. Now and then a frame of film would have a
message like "Hungry? Eat popcorn!" Because it flashed by so quickly,
it did not register consciously, but supposedly it still had an effect
on viewers. When word of this got out, there was a bit of an uproar
and the practice was discontinued.

None

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Mar 28, 2009, 11:42:10 AM3/28/09
to

Paul is dead

tkin...@chittenden.com

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Mar 28, 2009, 12:15:00 PM3/28/09
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On the album "Radio Dinnner" (circa 1972), National Lampoon spoofed
the whole "McCartney is dead" nonsense. Every now and then, between
songs and skits, there'd be something like this: An announcer says
"Clue number six," followed by the sound of screeching tires and
crashing metal, and finally a voice with a Liverpool accent saying
"Paul's been slain in a bloody car crash!"
It was further spoofed on "The Rutles," a parody bio-pic by Monty
Python's Eric Idle and Bonzo Dog Band's Neil Innes. Supposedly on the
song "I am the Waitress" one could hear "Stig's been dead for ages,
honestly." But in fact this was "Eh buristigano" which was explained
as "very bad Spanish for 'Have you a water buffalo?'"

SAT W-7

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Mar 28, 2009, 12:32:17 PM3/28/09
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Thanks for that website ..But my webtv sucks and can not do that stuff
so i forwarded it to a friend who has a real computer and told him to
save it for the next time i go to his place .

Yes i know they would not put stuff on there like that on purpuse ..

You are right on subliminal messages ..I have heard about that too....

parrt...@cs.com

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Mar 28, 2009, 12:54:57 PM3/28/09
to
THE HIDDEN PERSUADERS

You are right on subliminal messages ..I have heard about that
too....

I recall reading THE HIDDEN PERSUADERS by Vance Packard about hidden
advertising messages.

madams

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Mar 31, 2009, 12:16:17 AM3/31/09
to
help bot wrote:
>
> On Mar 28, 1:03 am, Sin...@webtv.net (SAT W-7) wrote:
>
> > The song Stairway to Heaven backwards , people say it says , " i live
> > for Satan " ??
> > something like that but i am not sure i belive it.
> > I would have to hear it for myself and i can not play cd's backward ..
> > If anything why wouldn't they say " buy more albums " so they can make
> > more money....
>
> Some book says the love of money is the
> root of all evil... but what has this to do with
> listening to songs played backwards?


..suppose I -- right to left from Reading

.m

madams

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Mar 31, 2009, 3:41:21 PM3/31/09
to
parrt...@cs.com wrote:

THE CARPETBAGGERS

I recall discovering Mr Robbins oeuvre secreted in a relative's
escritoire & reading it when I was about 10 or eleven - formative work
that!..

m.

Offramp

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May 16, 2021, 2:44:21 PM5/16/21
to
On Thursday, 26 March 2009 at 04:01:36 UTC, Tom wrote:
> On Mar 22, 3:53 pm, onech...@comcast.net wrote:
> >
> > Enochian magic is a system of ceremonial magic based on the evocation
> > and commanding of various spirits. It is based on the 16th-century
> > writings of Dr. John Dee and Edward Kelley, who claimed that their
> > information was delivered to them directly by various angels. Dee's
> > journals contained the Enochian script, and the table of
> > correspondences that goes with it. It claims to embrace secrets
> > contained within the apocryphal Book of Enoch.
> >
> > History
> >
> > Origins
> >
> > Dee and Kelley claim they received these instructions from angels and
> > wrote them down. This account is taken at face value by most Enochian
> > occultists. However, some of them have pointed out remarkable
> > similarities to earlier grimoiric texts such as the Heptameron known
> > to Dee. Doubts surrounding Kelley in particular have led many non-
> > occultists to the assumption the whole system was originally a fraud
> > devised by Kelley in order to receive more financial support from Dee.
> > The system claims to relate to secrets contained within the apocryphal
> > Book of Enoch.
> >
> > Rediscovery
> >
> > It is not quite clear how much of Enochian magic was put to use by Dee
> > and Kelley. However, rediscovery of Enochian magic by Samuel Liddell
> > MacGregor Mathers of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn has sparked
> > remarkable publicity for it in modern occultism. Enochian as an
> > operative system is difficult to reconstruct based upon the Sloane
> > manuscripts, but contemporary occult organizations have attempted to
> > make it usable. The Golden Dawn was the first, but their knowledge was
> > based upon only one of Dee's diaries and their planetary, elemental,
> > or zodiacal attributions are unfounded.
> >
> > One facet of the rediscovery is Enochian chess, a four-handed variant
> > of the game played in the Golden Dawn in Mathers' time and revived by
> > Steve Nichols and chess players in the late twentieth century.
> >
> > Aleister Crowley, who worked with, and wrote about, Enochian magic
> > extensively, has contributed much to its comparatively widespread use
> > today. His first work on the topic was his Liber Chanokh, a
> > walkthrough to decipher some elements of this system, but his
> > attention was particularly focused upon the Calls of the Aethyrs. His
> > visions from these calls formed a document called The Vision and the
> > Voice, also known as Liber 418.
> >
> > Today
> >
> > Compared to other theories of magic, Enochian magic is strikingly
> > complex, beautiful and difficult to understand. Also, parts of the
> > original manuscripts written by Dee have been lost, mainly due to a
> > fire in his house after his death, thus key parts of the system are
> > missing. This has allowed numerous interpretations to arise, some of
> > which have solidified into schools of thought with individual bodies
> > of interpretative literature.
> >
> > Enochian Magic forms the backbone of both the Crowley and Golden Dawn
> > systems of Magic. Latest theories include that John Dee knew of the
> > Slavonic, Book of the Secrets of Enoch, as well as the Ethiopic Book
> > of Enoch. Many individual workers or very small groups prefer Enochian
> > magic to other forms as the ceremonial scale required is less than
> > needed for Masonic style ritual work.
> >
> > Anton LaVey's book The Satanic Bible includes a section of 'Enochian
> > Keys' purported to have been part of the lost manuscripts of Dr.
> > Dee's, though this has not been verified.
> >
> > Popular culture
> >
> > Industrial band Penal Colony released a song and accompanying video
> > named "Freemasons of Enochian Magick".
> If you're going to cut and paste, at least cite your source. Do you
> personally know anything about Enoichian Chess or are you limited
> solely to what you can find on line to copy?

LOL!

Quadibloc

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May 18, 2021, 12:19:11 AM5/18/21
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On Sunday, March 22, 2009 at 9:45:07 AM UTC-6, Tom wrote:
> Crowley gave up the
> serious play of chess in his early twenties because he decided that
> chess experts were really nothing but a bunch of bums playing a silly
> game.

The same reason why I don't sit in front of my TV set and watch
grown men play baseball, football, or hockey!

> Not that you couldn't say exactly the same thing about any human
> endeavor.

You certainly _could_ say that about the endeavors Aleister Crowley
got into later on instead of Chess.

But there are some endeavors that produce productive results for
humanity. Everything from science, mathematics and engineering on
the one hand... to mining and farming on the other.

John Savard

Eli Kesef

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May 18, 2021, 8:01:11 AM5/18/21
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On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 7:19:11 AM UTC+3, Quadibloc wrote:

> But there are some endeavors that produce productive results for
> humanity. Everything from science, mathematics and engineering on
> the one hand... to mining and farming on the other.

Bs"d

Chess is very important for humanity. It makes people happy.

https://tinyurl.com/Tarr-happy

William Hyde

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Jun 25, 2021, 5:16:30 PM6/25/21
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On Saturday, March 21, 2009 at 7:37:46 AM UTC-4, Offramp wrote:
> In The Eastbourne Gazette of 7th March 1894, Aleister Crowley wrote,
> after 1.e4 c5:
> "This defence has been mightily abused of late. Torrents ow wrath have
> been poured on it, but to those who understand it, it is as strong as
> one could wish. Personally I always make this reply and throughout the
> season have not lost one single game opened in this way."

Five years later in his games collection, Blackburn commented that
the opening had been very popular in his youth, but declined in
subsequent years owing to Steinitz' doctrine of "The accumulation of
small advantages" - the advantage in this case being for white the backwards
d-pawn that often arises in the Sicilian.

But, he went on, the younger generation of players such as Maroczy and Janowski (and Crowley?)
were taking it up, and he himself had never considered it to be inferior, though the French suited
his style better.

Tarrasch didn't entirely parrot Steinitz. He believed that a fixed weakness, such as the Siclian d-pawn,
could be compensated for by activity. You'd think he'd be a natural for the Sicilian, but he referred to it
as unsound in principle, as it doesn't immediately develop a piece.

If Crowley never lost in a Sicilian then clearly he wasn't playing strong enough opponents. But as Somerset
Maugham pointed out, Crowley tended to achieve remarkable things, but then exaggerate them to
the point that he got less credit than he would have with the simple truth.


William Hyde

The Horny Goat

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Jun 26, 2021, 9:37:36 PM6/26/21
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On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:16:29 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
<wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, March 21, 2009 at 7:37:46 AM UTC-4, Offramp wrote:
>> In The Eastbourne Gazette of 7th March 1894, Aleister Crowley wrote,
>> after 1.e4 c5:
>> "This defence has been mightily abused of late. Torrents ow wrath have
>> been poured on it, but to those who understand it, it is as strong as
>> one could wish. Personally I always make this reply and throughout the
>> season have not lost one single game opened in this way."
>
>Five years later in his games collection, Blackburn commented that
>the opening had been very popular in his youth, but declined in
>subsequent years owing to Steinitz' doctrine of "The accumulation of
>small advantages" - the advantage in this case being for white the backwards
>d-pawn that often arises in the Sicilian.

Really? there are lots of Sicilians that don't involve a backwards
d-pawn - for instance all Dragons and many Sozins. I've seen a few
19th century games with e5 in the Sicilian but not many.

>But, he went on, the younger generation of players such as Maroczy and Janowski (and Crowley?)
>were taking it up, and he himself had never considered it to be inferior, though the French suited
>his style better.
>
>Tarrasch didn't entirely parrot Steinitz. He believed that a fixed weakness, such as the Siclian d-pawn,
>could be compensated for by activity. You'd think he'd be a natural for the Sicilian, but he referred to it
>as unsound in principle, as it doesn't immediately develop a piece.

How so? There are lots of 2 ... Nc6 lines in the Sicilian some with e5
some not.

>If Crowley never lost in a Sicilian then clearly he wasn't playing strong enough opponents. But as Somerset
>Maugham pointed out, Crowley tended to achieve remarkable things, but then exaggerate them to
>the point that he got less credit than he would have with the simple truth.

Most expert level players can ring up a huge plus score if they never
play masters.....so I tend to agree with your comment about weak
opponents. I don't know enough about Crowley to comment on your second
point though I definitely know all sorts of players in the 1900+ range
of whom your comment could reasonably be made.

William Hyde

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Jun 28, 2021, 3:17:03 PM6/28/21
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On Saturday, June 26, 2021 at 9:37:36 PM UTC-4, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:16:29 -0700 (PDT), William Hyde
> <wthyd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, March 21, 2009 at 7:37:46 AM UTC-4, Offramp wrote:
> >> In The Eastbourne Gazette of 7th March 1894, Aleister Crowley wrote,
> >> after 1.e4 c5:
> >> "This defence has been mightily abused of late. Torrents ow wrath have
> >> been poured on it, but to those who understand it, it is as strong as
> >> one could wish. Personally I always make this reply and throughout the
> >> season have not lost one single game opened in this way."
> >
> >Five years later in his games collection, Blackburn commented that
> >the opening had been very popular in his youth, but declined in
> >subsequent years owing to Steinitz' doctrine of "The accumulation of
> >small advantages" - the advantage in this case being for white the backwards
> >d-pawn that often arises in the Sicilian.
> Really? there are lots of Sicilians that don't involve a backwards
> d-pawn - for instance all Dragons and many Sozins. I've seen a few
> 19th century games with e5 in the Sicilian but not many.


Sicilian theory in the 1880s was not particularly advanced. And the concept of leaving the
e-pawn at e7 was not one that would meet with then "modern" ideas. Even with the d6/e6
formation the pawn was considered to be weak.


> >But, he went on, the younger generation of players such as Maroczy and Janowski (and Crowley?)
> >were taking it up, and he himself had never considered it to be inferior, though the French suited
> >his style better.
> >
> >Tarrasch didn't entirely parrot Steinitz. He believed that a fixed weakness, such as the Siclian d-pawn,
> >could be compensated for by activity. You'd think he'd be a natural for the Sicilian, but he referred to it
> >as unsound in principle, as it doesn't immediately develop a piece.
> How so? There are lots of 2 ... Nc6 lines in the Sicilian some with e5

Emphasis on "immediately". C5 does not develop or aid in the development of a minor piece. In his
book "The Game of Chess", Dr T said that the Sicilian had to be unsound for this reason. I don't have a
copy of his "three hundred chess games" so I can't see how he treated this opening.

Tarrash could be terribly dogmatic in his writings, so much so that at times I think he must be kidding us.

In his actual play he was much more flexible, e.g. fianchettoing his KB in games played from the 1880s to the
1920s.


> some not.
> >If Crowley never lost in a Sicilian then clearly he wasn't playing strong enough opponents. But as Somerset
> >Maugham pointed out, Crowley tended to achieve remarkable things, but then exaggerate them to
> >the point that he got less credit than he would have with the simple truth.
> Most expert level players can ring up a huge plus score if they never
> play masters.....so I tend to agree with your comment about weak
> opponents. I don't know enough about Crowley to comment on your second
> point though I definitely know all sorts of players in the 1900+ range
> of whom your comment could reasonably be made.

Crowley did some very decent mountain climbing in the Himalayas, for example, setting new records. But (at least according to Maugham) he claimed to have done even more, claims that were not credible and only hurt his reputation among the informed. A little L. Ron-ish, but not quite so extreme.

William Hyde
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