Fischer said he could give knight odds to any woman
Sam Sloan
(NoMoreChess) wrote:
>.
> Dr. Blair has noted that, comparatively speaking, Kasparov was more
>broadsweeping in his insults of the fairer sex than Fischer. But it should
>also be noted that Garry was not so careless as to issue a "challenge" like the
>one Fischer offered, but ;ater failed to back up with actions.
>
> Typically, Kasparov noted the superior acheivements of men vs. women
>throughout history, yet utterly failed to note that women had been given
>precious little in the way of *opportunity* to compete on equal terms in any of
>those fields.
>
> I can only note that, even when Fischer made his original statement about
>women, there existed at least one woman in the USSR who would have welcomed
>such a match, and there was no shortage of finacial backers who were willing to
>gamble on Fischer having bitten off more than his his big mouth could chew.
>
>
> "Fischer is Fischer. But a Knight is a Knight." -- Tal
Totally untrue. Fischer did play a match at knight odds against the
top woman player in the US at the time, Lisa Lane. Fischer won every
game. They played for money and Fischer won $200. Unfortunately, the
games were not recorded for posterity.
At the time Fischer made his statement, he could probably have
defeated every or almost every woman player in the world at knight
odds. Knight odds is not as big as most people think and the top women
players were much weaker back then.
Sam Sloan
Sam Sloan
>Sam: I assume that when Fischer made that statement there were several
>female players in Russia who were 2300 strength. Are you saying that in a
>slow chess game Kasparov could be expected to
>beat a 2300 player at Knight odds. I would put my money on the 2300 player
>at a time control of 40/80.
The first women's world champions were Rudenko and Bykova. I asked
Gufeld about this and his reply was, "I know her. She is a very nice
lady. But she is not chess player."
Before Gaprindashvili I am not certain that any woman in the world was
more than 2300 and I believe that Fischer made his knight-odds
statement before Gaprindashvili came along.
I knew Sonia Graf Stevenson. I met her at the 1959 US Open in Ohama.
She was a very nice and elegant lady. She was one of the top
challengers for the woman's world championship during the Vera Menchik
era, but she was only about 2000 strength, certainly not a master.
Unfortunately, she died not long after I met her.
Gesila Gresser was a 2200 player at her peak. She played in the World
Woman's Candidates several times but finished in the middle. So, the
winners were probably around 2300 I suppose.
I do not believe that Lisa Lane was ever better than 2100. By the way,
I have a newspaper clipping on my website of me sitting next to Lisa
Lane at the 1959 National Capital Open.
http://www.samsloan.com/lisa-sam.htm
Sam Sloan
SEdwardWilson
Women have had the freedom to play chess for a hundred years....
any woman named in the upper chasms of Tal, Fishcer, Kasparov, Capablanca? etc?
No.
Proof is in the pudding, as my barefoot and pregnant mother always said while
cooking me the food that feed my male, productive body
ian burton
"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
news:408295a2...@ca.news.verio.net...
Lisa Lane was a beautiful woman, but no challange for Fischer at knight
odds. Tal's remark clearly referred to women players in the Soviet Union,
women he knew would win.
--
Ian Burton
[Please Reply to Newsgroup]
Sam Sloan
>Dear Sam: Just to set the historical record straight: Fischer did not beat Lisa Lane game after game at Knight odds. There was only one game involved, and it was played at the home of Jose Calderon at 1 Washington Square. We walked over from the Marshall to Calderon's. I was there with Calderon, Bobby and Lisa. She had a clear advantage, and Calderon began interfering as a kibitzer and began insisting that she make the moves that he wanted in order to finish Bobby off. Then he began to actually move the pieces for her (to her protest), Fischer responded, and in a matter of minutes (or seconds) she was sitting in a hopelessly lost position. Fischer claimed the win and collected his money. Obviously, Lisa was furious, since she felt that Bobby had not beaten her.
>
>Dr. Frank Brady
Thank you so very much for setting the record straight. I heard the
story several times in 1964. I believe that Leon Zukoff and Fred
Wilson knew something about it. I was not aware that you were actually
present at the great event.
Sam Sloan
Jerome Bibuld
Heil Dubya!
Why not place Judit Polgar in that class? Not only was Tahl correct when he
said, "Fischer is Fischer, but a knight is a knight." He might have added, "A
2700 rating is a 2700 rating."
>any woman named in the upper chasms of Tal, Fishcer, Kasparov, Capablanca?
>etc?
>
>No.
>
>Proof is in the pudding, as my barefoot and pregnant mother always said while
>cooking me the food that feed my male, productive body
>
Heute Uhmuhrikkka, Afghanistan, Irak und Haďti. Morgen die ganze Welt!
Uhmuhrikkka, Uhmuhrikkka über Alles!
(The more information that comes out about the attacks on the Twin Towers and
the Pentagon of 11 September 2001 the more it appears that those attacks were
organized by the rulers of the United States and were intended to have the same
effect on the people of the United States that the Reichstag fire had on the
people of Germany in 1933.)
Fight terrorism! Dissolve the CIA and disarm the Pentagon! (I have been
watching the hearings of the Commission to investigate the attacks on the Twin
Towers and the Pentagon of 11 September 2001. As a result, I have become
convinced that every one of the witnesses and their four Presidents - and every
one of the Commissioners - should be tried for:
(1. Conspiracy to commit terrorism; and/or
(2. Commission of terrorist acts; and/or
(3. Conspiracy to commit murder; and/or
(4. Commission of murder; and/or
(5. Treason; and/or
(6. Suborning one or more of the above acts.)
Fraternally,
Jerome Bibuld
gens una sumus
Randy Bauer
I can't fathom a 2300 player who could not win a match at knight odds
against any human player. Since I'm a 2300 player, I would be happy to
accept that challenge, and I suspect I could find the backers if somebody
wanted to put up some stakes. My strategy would be to keep things
relatively stable in the center, develop pieces to reasonable squares, and
offer trades in ways that do not compromise my general position. I'd
probably not be accepting too many additional offers of material for active
piece play as compensation.
I think players think about being down a knight as not that big a deal in
the context of unbalanced positions where one side or the other chooses to
sacrifice that piece. That is an entirely different matter from sitting in
the opening position knowing you are a full piece up for absolutely no
compensation.
Randy Bauer
SEdwardWilson
>Dear Mr. Wilson,
>
>Heil Dubya!
>
>Why not place Judit Polgar in that class? Not only was Tahl correct when he
>said, "Fischer is Fischer, but a knight is a knight." He might have added, "A
>2700 rating is a 2700 rating."
I am not sure what Fischer's 2700 rating has to do with it, perhaps you have a
problem communicating your ideas. Also, there are factors involved in how high
a persons rating could possibly go - one being the second highest rating and
how often you'll play that person - just to name one - so 2700 rating is not
the same as a 2700 rating 30 years later.
Polgar is great, and is one of the greats today, but (however - nevertheless,
etc), she is not one of the greats of all time, which is what I was refering to
if you had learned to comprehend what you read.
Steve Wilson (not Republican - just someone with a beautiful appreciation for
the roles that each gender should play - now hush and go play yours)
NoMoreChess
>Tal's remark clearly referred to women players in the Soviet Union,
>women he knew would win.
There is a strange myopia which afflicts certain Americans, a savage disease
which wreaks havoc on their already limited powers of reason, and causes them
to overlook every other country in the world, apart from their own. Of course
Tal was speaking of the *top* female players in the world, most of which
resided in or near the USSR, not the USA. Only an imbecile like Sam Sloan
would try and match up Fischer with an American "WIM," "WGM," or whathaveyou,
when there are many women who completely outclass them, but who happen to live
elsewhere. The key here is to remember that Fischer did not limit his
"challenge" to weak, American players. If he had, he would not have had to
specify sex, but merely exclude certain GMs, like say, Reshevsky and Evans.
:-)
NoMoreChess
>I think players think about being down a knight as not that big a deal in
>the context of unbalanced positions where one side or the other chooses to
>sacrifice that piece. That is an entirely different matter from sitting in
>the opening position knowing you are a full piece up for absolutely no
>compensation.
"That's not quite true." The compensation is that Fischer is Fischer, while
you're not!
At one time, it was common practice for strong masters to grant such odds to
their inferiors. But chess has come a long, long way since then. Defensive
technique in particular, has improved dramatically. For example, when Fischer
HUNG his Bishop by taking that poisoned pawn on h2 against Spassky, ten
thousand patzers were able to find drawing variations! Compare that to how
everyone just stared in awe at Morphy's win over the Duke and the Count --
nobody lifting a finger to try and save them. :-)
ian burton
Jose Calderon was a miserable person, and a drunk to boot. Thanks, Frank,
for posting this.
NoMoreChess
>Subject: Re: Fischer said he could give knight odds to any woman
>From: "ian burton"
>Frank Brady wrote:
>> >Dear Sam: Just to set the historical record straight: Fischer did not
>beat Lisa Lane game after game at Knight odds. There was only one game
>involved, and it was played at the home of Jose Calderon at 1 Washington
>Square. We walked over from the Marshall to Calderon's. I was there with
>Calderon, Bobby and Lisa. She had a clear advantage, and Calderon began
>interfering as a kibitzer and began insisting that she make the moves that
>he wanted in order to finish Bobby off. Then he began to actually move the
>pieces for her (to her protest), Fischer responded, and in a matter of
>minutes (or seconds) she was sitting in a hopelessly lost position. Fischer
>claimed the win and collected his money. Obviously, Lisa was furious, since
>she felt that Bobby had not beaten her.
>> >
>> >Dr. Frank Brady
>>
>> Thank you so very much for setting the record straight. I heard the
>> story several times in 1964. I believe that Leon Zukoff and Fred
>> Wilson knew something about it. I was not aware that you were actually
>> present at the great event.
>>
>> Sam Sloan
This is just one more example of Sam Sloan making stuff up, and pretending to
know about something, that which he knows not.
"This only proves -- once again -- what an idiot Sloan is, and that didn't
require any proof at all!" -- Dr. Bob
BIG JOE :)
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"Sam Sloan" <sl...@ishipress.com> wrote in message
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