Mag and SW Selection

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Octavio Robles

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Jan 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/17/97
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Hello Cyberspacers!!

I have recently done a brief study, and it seems that to get information
the best two magazines would be Chess Life and Inside Chess, and the
best sw i could by would be Chess Base Windows..

I would appreciate your commments on my choices, before i spend money..

(Special thanks if Komputer Korner would do the honors!! :) )

Sincerely,, Octavio... (beginner, using Windows 95)..

p.s. Special hello to any mexican readers of these threads!!!!!
(if there are any).. :)

Komputer Korner

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Jan 18, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/18/97
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I am not going to comment on the magazines but as far as a program is
concerned my favourite is Nimzo 3.5. However it depends on what exactly
you want to do. If you are planning to download a lot of games get
Chessbase (or Clubmate if you want a cheap dB). If you are plannung to
use a chesstree and do a lot of searches, get Chess Assisant. If you
are planning to have the program play against you while being inside a
dB, get Tascbase.
It depends on what you want to do with a database. Some people just like
to collect games and search for a position, materiel and header
information and get statistics. For that Clubmate is good enough. Others
like to arrange their dB's and are constantly getting dB's from others
and
do a lot of dB activity. For that ChessBase is unsurpassed because of
it's
drag and drop features.
Another advantage of ChessBase is that when you search for a position
you don't have to worry if there are doubled games, it will not show
the doubles as a result of the search. You can also paste the Fritz
analysis into the game and combine a bunch of games into one game. Of
course ChessBase and the databases mentionned below have all the above
features that I mentionned for Clubmate, and more.

If you like a Chesstree that shows the transposition paths,
Chess Assistanr can't be beat. If you like the database to show on
screen
as an ECO page sheet where you can traverse the tree while still keeping
the path on the screen, then Tascbase 2.0 is hard to beat. It also acts
as an opening book editor and repertoire keeper. Finally, Chess Academy
is
a middle priced dB that has a chesstree that doesn't catch
transpositions.

1) I haven't done any specific comparison speed tests on all the
bases lately, but on a 120,000 game dB with a 133Mhz Pentium, I wouldn't
worry about search times if you own Chess Assistant. CA2 has the fastest
searches on everything. A matter of 2 seconds for header searches and
less than 10 seconds for position searches and materiel searches in less
than 5 seconds. These were done on an indexed dB of 140,000 games on a
133Mhz Pentium.
2) The limiting factor is of course the machine. However, Chess
Assistant has
unfortunately a limit on it's player library of 65000 names. Therefore
unless your library is very clean, the most you can operate with is
around 300,000 games. The other bases don't have this limitation.
3) Merging is always a long operation in any program. Don't forget that
there is reindexing and other operations that have to be done to use the
new larger base. See my upcoming Komputer Korner tips on merging Genius
opening books and backsolving Bookup books for examples of long merging
operations.
4) The main advantages of 1 big base is that header,text,materiel and
position searches only need to be done once. Of course, you also don't
have
to worry about transpositions if you have 1 big base. Of course if you
have Chessbase or Clubmate you don't need to worry about having a lot
of different bases. They let you search in more than 1 base at a time.
In Chess Assistant because of the limitation, I arrange my games into
5 separate bases based on the A,B,C,D, and E codes of ECO. This for the
most part takes care of transpositions but I admit that there are some
transpositions thataren't caught this way.
5) CA and Tascbase have a transposition catching chesstree. Chess
Academy
has a chesstree that doesn't catch transpositions. ChessBase and
Clubmate do not have a chesstree but there is a separate DOS tree
program for Chessbase files but it has a limit of 4096 games. .
However, there are other factors in buying a dB program other than a
chesstree and ChessBase is the leading dB mainly because of it's windows
OLE and DDE capabilities.
Also, there are many chess playing programs that sport good database
functions. Nimzo 3.5 searches by all the usual criteria including
acting like a hybrid chesstree that doesn't catch transpositions
but it does search for dynamic criteria like Bxh7 and does position,text
and materiel searches. Chess Genius 5 does the usual header and
text searches and for sake of comparison to Chess Assistant, the Genius
search on header takes about 14 seconds. It doesn't do any position
searches, materiel searches or dynamic searches. Fritz/Extreme
duplicates the searching features of Chess Genius except they can't do
text
searches but Fritz/Extreme does some important things that Genius
doesn't, such as automatically classify by ECO and mark more than 1 game
at
a time and copy these games to another base. You can also show all the
moves of the all the games in the database at one time up to the 61st
ply.
In Fritz/Extreme you can also create a new database. For $40.00 U.S. it
can't be beat since it also has a strong playing program with it.

Rebel 8 does searches for position, header, text, and exact moves in
it's database functions as well as 6 different game overviews
statistics.


Komputer Korner's Gold Medal Chess Software by category - Version 19
1) Chess instruction for beginner- Chess Mates
2) Chess instruction novice level - Maurice Ashley Teaches Chess
3) Chess instruction intermediate level- Chess Mentor 1.4
4) Chess instruction advanced level - Chess Mentor 1.4
5) Chess Diagram Piece Font - Hastings Alpine Electronics Font
6) Chess Diagram Piece Font - freeware- Smart Regular
7) HTML chess editor - Web Chess Designer
8) Internet chess program interface - Slics 2.3j
9) Email chess recording program - DBS Chess 1.7a
10) Chess playing engine- strength- Rebel 8.0
11) Chess playing engine- Windows program- Chess Genius 5.0
12) Chess playing engine- best features- Nimzo 3.5
13) Chess playing engine - best learning features- M-Chess Pro 6.02
14) Chess playing engine - Most human like - Hiarcs 5.0
15) Chess playing engine - mass market-most features- CM5000.1.02
16) Chess playing engine- mass market- best database- Extreme Chess
17) Chess playing engine - freeware - Crafty 11.14
18) Chess playing engine - OS 2 - U-Chess 1.17
19) Chess playing engine- user programmable knowledge- Nimzo 3.5
20) Database program top of the line- ChessBase 6.0
21) Database program -value priced- Clubmate 2.4
22) Opening book editor - Bookup WIN 1.5.2
23) Chesstree with(transposition paths shown)database- Chess Assistant
2.0
24) ECO style chesstree -Tascbase 2.0

Hope this helps.
--
Komputer Korner

The komputer that kouldn't keep a password safe from
prying eyes, kouldn't kompute the square root of 36^n,
kouldn't find the real Motive and variation tree in
ChessBase and missed the real learning feature of Nimzo.

Carl Fossa

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Jan 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/19/97
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In my opinion, Chess Life is better for beginners (plus you get it with
your USCF membership). Inside chess is a great magazine, but probably
more than you need (lots of games!) as a beginner. Plus, once you get the
database bug, you won't want to play through the magazine games by hand.

I would start with either Fritz4 or Extreme Chess (basically a scaled down
Fritz). Both allow you to create Chessbase databases, and play against a
strong opponent. Chessbase also offers a scaled down version calle
CBAccess, I think you can download it from their web site! You should also
consider the games available on disk. Informants are published in
Chessbase format. New In Chess in NICBase format. Both Chessbase and
Chess Assistant offer an "electronic magazine" of games and analysis.
Carl

Harald Faber

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Jan 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/19/97
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Hello Komputer,


KK> From: Komputer Korner <kor...@netcom.ca>
KK> Subject: Re: Mag and SW Selection
KK> Organization: Netcom Canada

KK> Komputer Korner's Gold Medal Chess Software by category - Version 19

KK> 1) Chess instruction for beginner- Chess Mates

Snipping 2-23

KK> 24) ECO style chesstree -Tascbase 2.0


Could you add the copy-protection, meaning which program has what kind of
copy-protection and consider this in your list? I am sure this is
important for some who are interested in buying chess programs.

Harald
--

Komputer Korner

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Jan 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/21/97
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Crafty has the best copy protection of them all. None. What you are
asking is to list one feature among many features that are incorporated
in chess programs. Among the top strength programs, Rebel 8 has the
least onerous copy protection. If you don't have Rebel 8 you are
missing a great program and if you do have it then why are you
worried about copy protection?

Tom C. Kerrigan

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Jan 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/22/97
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Komputer Korner (kor...@netcom.ca) wrote:

> in chess programs. Among the top strength programs, Rebel 8 has the
> least onerous copy protection. If you don't have Rebel 8 you are
> missing a great program and if you do have it then why are you
> worried about copy protection?

Because copy protection is a usability concern.

Cheers,
Tom

Harald Faber

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Jan 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/22/97
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KK> From: Komputer Korner <kor...@netcom.ca>

KK> Subject: Re: KK's Gold Metal list
KK> Organization: Netcom Canada


KK> Crafty has the best copy protection of them all. None. What you are

I know. :-)

KK> asking is to list one feature among many features that are incorporated

Because I am not the only one wanting to know the kind of c.p. and almost
no ad or announcement tells about it.
For me this is an important point.
I suppose you didn't get me. Therefore read below.

KK> in chess programs. Among the top strength programs, Rebel 8 has the
KK> least onerous copy protection. If you don't have Rebel 8 you are
KK> missing a great program and if you do have it then why are you
KK> worried about copy protection?

BECAUSE I wrote I'd prefer CD-rom-versions, I wouldn't mind if they are
protected. The main point is that diskettes get damaged by time, I really
should have counted and collected them. It's a lot!
And read my posting about the MChessPro c.p. and what trouble I had/have
with it. Then you maybe understand my point of view. It is not only
feeling better when having a backup. Don't remark now that it is possible
to make backups, they only run on the actual configuration of your
komputer, change board and cpu and you will see what happens, so if your
diskette is damaged and you only have the backup you should practice
walking on your knees and begging for a new diskette. :-)
BTW I own Rebel8 but I would refuse buying further versions if they come
on diskette. Luckily Ed promised to deliver them on CD-rom. :)
Huh, I am shivering when I think of strong and good programs like WChess
and Tascbase/The King which can only be installed 3-5 times. this is not
customer-friendly, especially nowadays.

However we can debate on this topic for years without anybody agreeing.
I for myself have decided that c.p. is a shit and I don't need it. It is
too much trouble and too much uncertainty.

As I said CD-rom is OK but diskette? *NEVER*! (again)

KK> Komputer Korner
KK> The komputer that kouldn't keep a password safe from
KK> prying eyes, kouldn't kompute the square root of 36^n,
KK> kouldn't find the real Motive and variation tree in
KK> ChessBase and missed the real learning feature of Nimzo.

..and is the only one who understands the sense of copy-protection besides
the programmers. :-)

Tschuessikowski
Harald

--

mclane

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Jan 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/25/97
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Harald...@p21.f2.n1.z1001.fidonet.org (Harald Faber) wrote:


>KK> From: Komputer Korner <kor...@netcom.ca>
>KK> Subject: Re: KK's Gold Metal list
>KK> Organization: Netcom Canada


>KK> Crafty has the best copy protection of them all. None. What you are

>I know. :-)

>KK> asking is to list one feature among many features that are incorporated

>Because I am not the only one wanting to know the kind of c.p. and almost
>no ad or announcement tells about it.
>For me this is an important point.
>I suppose you didn't get me. Therefore read below.

>KK> in chess programs. Among the top strength programs, Rebel 8 has the
>KK> least onerous copy protection. If you don't have Rebel 8 you are
>KK> missing a great program and if you do have it then why are you
>KK> worried about copy protection?

>BECAUSE I wrote I'd prefer CD-rom-versions, I wouldn't mind if they are
>protected. The main point is that diskettes get damaged by time, I really
>should have counted and collected them. It's a lot!

Dear Harald.
I have almost any chess program you could imagine !!
I have bought them !
After installing the stuff, I put them into a dark part of my
appartment, somewhere into a shelf and never use them again. I have 3
machines.
The only problem with copy-protection I ever had is:
Wchess and ChessBase- because I was unable to reinstall the tokens.
I was so emberassed about that, that I did not update my ChessBase.
I wait until I can buy Wchess with an easier copy-protection.
I will not buy any chessprogram that shows no main-line and no
evaluation.

I really don't understand your problem.
When I would have a problem with the disk, I would send it to GAMBIT
SOFT and within a week I would have a reapired disk back with repaired
tokens on it.
WHATS THE PROBLEM ?????
The copy protections helps the programmers to get enough money.
I think that is fair because I like their products.
I don't like CD-copy protections becuase I don't want always change
the cd between my favorious 10 programs. Imagine I would have to
change the cd all starts. BRRRRRRRRRR.

No. Copy protection IS OS when it helps the programmers to survive and
rto program me and all others a nicer version next year.

>And read my posting about the MChessPro c.p. and what trouble I had/have
>with it. Then you maybe understand my point of view.

How can you have trouble with Mchess copy-protection ?!?!
Why didn't you send it easily to GAMBIT-SOFT ?!

>It is not only
>feeling better when having a backup. Don't remark now that it is possible
>to make backups, they only run on the actual configuration of your
>komputer, change board and cpu and you will see what happens, so if your
>diskette is damaged and you only have the backup you should practice
>walking on your knees and begging for a new diskette. :-)
>BTW I own Rebel8 but I would refuse buying further versions if they come
>on diskette. Luckily Ed promised to deliver them on CD-rom. :)
>Huh, I am shivering when I think of strong and good programs like WChess
>and Tascbase/The King which can only be installed 3-5 times. this is not
>customer-friendly, especially nowadays.

>However we can debate on this topic for years without anybody agreeing.
>I for myself have decided that c.p. is a shit and I don't need it. It is
>too much trouble and too much uncertainty.


I cannot confirm this.

>As I said CD-rom is OK but diskette? *NEVER*! (again)


I am vice versa opinon. CD-ROM is shit, diskette is ok.
If I have bought the CD, I have it. Why a copy-protection ?!

Komputer Korner

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Jan 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/26/97
to

Harald Faber wrote:
>
snipped

> However we can debate on this topic for years without anybody agreeing.
> I for myself have decided that c.p. is a shit and I don't need it. It is
> too much trouble and too much uncertainty.
>
> As I said CD-rom is OK but diskette? *NEVER*! (again)
>
> KK> Komputer Korner
> KK> The komputer that kouldn't keep a password safe from
> KK> prying eyes, kouldn't kompute the square root of 36^n,
> KK> kouldn't find the real Motive and variation tree in
> KK> ChessBase and missed the real learning feature of Nimzo.
>
> ..and is the only one who understands the sense of copy-protection besides
> the programmers. :-)
>
> Tschuessikowski
> Harald
>
> --

As you say, the programmers are getting the message and pretty soon all
of the programs will be on CDROM. Then you are going to lambast them for
having to put in the CDROM to refresh the protection from time to time
when
we all have to put in the CDROM music disc each time that we want to
hear
music.
--
Komputer Korner


The komputer that kouldn't keep a password safe from

prying eyes, kouldn't kompute the square root of 36^n,

kouldn't find the real Motive and variation tree in

ChessBase, kouldn't compute the proper time in 2 variation
mode, missed the Hiarcs functionality in Extreme
and also misread the real learning feature of Nimzo.

Harald Faber

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Jan 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/27/97
to

KK> From: Komputer Korner <kor...@netcom.ca>
KK> Subject: Re: KK's Gold Metal list
KK> Organization: Netcom Canada

KK> > As I said CD-rom is OK but diskette? *NEVER*! (again)

----------------------

Can you read, Mr. Komputer Korner?
Then read above.

KK> As you say, the programmers are getting the message and pretty soon all
KK> of the programs will be on CDROM.

I hope so!

KK> Then you are going to lambast them for
KK> having to put in the CDROM to refresh the protection from time to time
KK> when we all have to put in the CDROM music disc each time that we want
KK> to hear music.

No! Read above! I'd be absolutely satisfied with chess programs coming on
CDRom refrehing every month or whatever. And I am also absolutely sure
that I am not the only one.


Tschuessikowski
Harald

--

Harald Faber

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Jan 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/27/97
to

m> From: mcl...@prima.ruhr.de (mclane)
m> Subject: Re: KK's Gold Metal list
m> Organization: Prima e.V. Dortmund

m> Dear Harald.
m> I have almost any chess program you could imagine !!
m> I have bought them !

You had no choice, right? :-)

m> After installing the stuff, I put them into a dark part of my
m> appartment, somewhere into a shelf and never use them again. I have 3
m> machines.
m> The only problem with copy-protection I ever had is:
m> Wchess and ChessBase- because I was unable to reinstall the tokens.

What about the King?

m> I was so emberassed about that, that I did not update my ChessBase.
m> I wait until I can buy Wchess with an easier copy-protection.

So do I.

m> I will not buy any chessprogram that shows no main-line and no
m> evaluation.

Does such a program exist??

m> I really don't understand your problem.
m> When I would have a problem with the disk, I would send it to GAMBIT
m> SOFT and within a week I would have a reapired disk back with repaired
m> tokens on it.
m> WHATS THE PROBLEM ?????

I didn't buy from Gambitsoft :-) AND I don't like to do so, it is not
friendly for customers. It costs me time and money.

m> The copy protections helps the programmers to get enough money.

Hoho, tough words!
There are many examples where programs without c.p. are sold very well.
Why isn't it possible with chess programs (except for some programs coming
on CD)?

m> I think that is fair because I like their products.

So you (and me and many others) would buy these programs even if they came
without c.p., right?

m> I don't like CD-copy protections becuase I don't want always change
m> the cd between my favorious 10 programs. Imagine I would have to
m> change the cd all starts. BRRRRRRRRRR.

I could live better with inserting a CDRom once a month than sending a
diskette back to the dealer once a month.

m> >And read my posting about the MChessPro c.p. and what trouble I had/have
m> >with it. Then you maybe understand my point of view.

m> How can you have trouble with Mchess copy-protection ?!?!

I also didn't and don't understand it.
I removed my CDRom-drive, installed another one and in this time when
changed the configuration I DIDN'T START MCP5. I removed the CDRom-drive 2
hours later after having found out that it doesn't work fine. I completely
removed the drive, meaning that I also removed the device drivers etc so
that the original configuration from before the CDrom-change was active.
But MCP5 refuses to start. Marty's advice (he wrote "...I use a system by
xxx but well it is not perfect...", "...try PRMOVE...") to try this PRMOVE
failed, also an attempt with install so I had to send it back to the
dealer. So what is the conclusion out of this? Every time I change my
hardware I have to remove my installation of MCP? That can't be true and I
am not gonna accept this solution in future.

m> Why didn't you send it easily to GAMBIT-SOFT ?!

Because I didn' buy there...

m> >As I said CD-rom is OK but diskette? *NEVER*! (again)
m> I am vice versa opinon. CD-ROM is shit, diskette is ok.

Again: I should have counted and collected my damaged (by time!) diskettes
to show you how bad it is, and I am not willing to send diskettes back to
my dealer who maybe doesn't have working diskettes from the in the
meantime grown "old program" just because of not having the possibility to
make a backup of my ORIGINAL diskette. I remember when a colleague in my
chess club bought CBWin1.0 i.e. After several months it didn't work any
longer, no idea why. He sent it back to CB to repair the fault; they sent
another copy of CBWin1.0 but the same mistake appeared again. CB was
informed, they looked after it and saw they either don't have any working
copy of CBWin1.0, but, they were very friendly, offered him to BUY a new
CBWin1.1 version for only 50DM. Isn't it nice of them? Throw your shit 1.0
out of the window and 500DM with it or buy our update...

m> If I have bought the CD, I have it. Why a copy-protection ?!

???

Because you can easily copy CDs?!


Tschuessikowski
Harald

--

mclane

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Jan 30, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/30/97
to

Harald...@p21.f2.n1.z1001.fidonet.org (Harald Faber) wrote:


>m> From: mcl...@prima.ruhr.de (mclane)
>m> Subject: Re: KK's Gold Metal list
>m> Organization: Prima e.V. Dortmund

>m> Dear Harald.
>m> I have almost any chess program you could imagine !!
>m> I have bought them !

>You had no choice, right? :-)

How can you surpress feelings like LOVE and passion ?!?!


>m> After installing the stuff, I put them into a dark part of my
>m> appartment, somewhere into a shelf and never use them again. I have 3
>m> machines.
>m> The only problem with copy-protection I ever had is:
>m> Wchess and ChessBase- because I was unable to reinstall the tokens.

>What about the King?
Right. The same problem ! We fought against this methods, I know
myself many faxes we have sent to TASC. I have myself sent many faxes
on my work at SCHACH-NIGGEMANN to tell them: This copy-protection YOU
use is contra-productive.


>m> I was so emberassed about that, that I did not update my ChessBase.
>m> I wait until I can buy Wchess with an easier copy-protection.

>So do I.
aha!

>m> I will not buy any chessprogram that shows no main-line and no
>m> evaluation.

>Does such a program exist??

Power-chess ?!
Chess-Wars ?!

>m> I really don't understand your problem.
>m> When I would have a problem with the disk, I would send it to GAMBIT
>m> SOFT and within a week I would have a reapired disk back with repaired
>m> tokens on it.
>m> WHATS THE PROBLEM ?????

>I didn't buy from Gambitsoft :-) AND I don't like to do so, it is not
>friendly for customers. It costs me time and money.

What do you have against Gambit-Soft ?!

It costs you 2 german-Deutsch-Mark If I buy a currywurst with
pommes-frites it costs me 5 german-marks.

It costs you 5 days, maybe less.


>m> The copy protections helps the programmers to get enough money.

>Hoho, tough words!
>There are many examples where programs without c.p. are sold very well.
>Why isn't it possible with chess programs (except for some programs coming
>on CD)?


The profit a chess-programmer can make by selling chess-programs is
very low. Believe me. I know how much money some chess-programmers
get, because I know them in person, also I know from experience how
many units were sold in the chess-shops.

All in all only Morsch, Ed Schroeder, Richard Lang ... can maybe live
from it. Schroeder and Morsch have learned that it is better to sell
themselves, not giving away own-rights instead of giving a distributor
rights.
They have both learned this in BAD EXPERIENCE WITH Hegener + Glaser,
munich, I guess.

It is very strange that the new programmers do the same mistakes the
old programmes have done.

There must be a reason .....
It is very sad to see programmers react against my advise to do
business with these people and not with others, and then to see them
fail and lose money later, after a year.

Nobody listens, how sad...

>m> I think that is fair because I like their products.

>So you (and me and many others) would buy these programs even if they came
>without c.p., right?

Right ! We (would) do so !


BUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTT: I know also guys that steal programs
(tournament-versions) or championship versions from machines, or
people stealing source-code !!!!!

>m> I don't like CD-copy protections becuase I don't want always change
>m> the cd between my favorious 10 programs. Imagine I would have to
>m> change the cd all starts. BRRRRRRRRRR.

>I could live better with inserting a CDRom once a month than sending a
>diskette back to the dealer once a month.


What are you doing with your harddisc , my friend ?!
Refreshing the copy protection any month ?!?!?!?
Format C: is not a command to defrag the harddisk. :-)

>m> >And read my posting about the MChessPro c.p. and what trouble I had/have
>m> >with it. Then you maybe understand my point of view.

>m> How can you have trouble with Mchess copy-protection ?!?!

>I also didn't and don't understand it.
>I removed my CDRom-drive, installed another one and in this time when
>changed the configuration I DIDN'T START MCP5. I removed the CDRom-drive 2
>hours later after having found out that it doesn't work fine. I completely
>removed the drive, meaning that I also removed the device drivers etc so
>that the original configuration from before the CDrom-change was active.
>But MCP5 refuses to start. Marty's advice (he wrote "...I use a system by
>xxx but well it is not perfect...", "...try PRMOVE...") to try this PRMOVE
>failed, also an attempt with install so I had to send it back to the
>dealer. So what is the conclusion out of this? Every time I change my
>hardware I have to remove my installation of MCP? That can't be true and I
>am not gonna accept this solution in future.


Hmmmmm.

>m> Why didn't you send it easily to GAMBIT-SOFT ?!

>Because I didn' buy there...

YOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUURRRRRR Problem. Gambit is fast, cheap and nice.
Also he has no interest to advantage a certain program or to betray a
programmer. Thwerefore I like Gambit-Soft. Because he is fair to
customers AND programmers.


>m> >As I said CD-rom is OK but diskette? *NEVER*! (again)
>m> I am vice versa opinon. CD-ROM is shit, diskette is ok.

>Again: I should have counted and collected my damaged (by time!) diskettes
>to show you how bad it is, and I am not willing to send diskettes back to
>my dealer who maybe doesn't have working diskettes from the in the
>meantime grown "old program" just because of not having the possibility to
>make a backup of my ORIGINAL diskette. I remember when a colleague in my
>chess club bought CBWin1.0 i.e. After several months it didn't work any
>longer, no idea why. He sent it back to CB to repair the fault; they sent
>another copy of CBWin1.0 but the same mistake appeared again. CB was
>informed, they looked after it and saw they either don't have any working
>copy of CBWin1.0, but, they were very friendly, offered him to BUY a new
>CBWin1.1 version for only 50DM. Isn't it nice of them? Throw your shit 1.0
>out of the window and 500DM with it or buy our update...

>m> If I have bought the CD, I have it. Why a copy-protection ?!

>???

>Because you can easily copy CDs?!

Right.

ok. whatever: I don't want to see any chess-programmer dying for NOT
-SELLING ENOUGH UNITS.

Maybe we should build a foundation for chess-programmers where anybody
pays something to make it possible to support
chess-computer-developments and programmers efforts in the whole
world.

Maybe ICCA could do this. They should have enough money ?!


>Tschuessikowski
>Harald

>--

Stefan Hahndel

unread,
Jan 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/31/97
to

In article <E4uBs...@news.prima.ruhr.de>, mcl...@prima.ruhr.de (mclane) writes:
[...]


|>
|> >m> Why didn't you send it easily to GAMBIT-SOFT ?!
|>
|> >Because I didn' buy there...
|>
|> YOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUURRRRRR Problem. Gambit is fast, cheap and nice.
|> Also he has no interest to advantage a certain program or to betray a
|> programmer. Thwerefore I like Gambit-Soft. Because he is fair to
|> customers AND programmers.

Correct! I prefer Gambit-Soft, even I have HCC (another big dealer
for chess software) in Munich. E.g., when I ordered Rebel from
Gambit-Soft, I received it within two days. Very good service!


S. Hahndel
--
Technische Universitaet Muenchen Phone: +49-89-48095-257
Institut fuer Informatik Fax: +49-89-48095-250
Orleansstr.34, D-81667 Muenchen, Germany; Room: 252

Ed Schroder

unread,
Jan 31, 1997, 3:00:00 AM1/31/97
to mcl...@prima.ruhr.de

From: mcl...@prima.ruhr.de (mclane)

: All in all only Morsch, Ed Schroeder, Richard Lang ... can maybe live


: from it. Schroeder and Morsch have learned that it is better to sell
: themselves, not giving away own-rights instead of giving a distributor
: rights. They have both learned this in BAD EXPERIENCE WITH
: Hegener + Glaser, munich, I guess.

Wrong guess Thorsten.

Hegener & Glaser is one of most decent companies I worked with
the past 12 years.

: It is very strange that the new programmers do the same mistakes the
: old programmes have done.

True...

: There must be a reason .....


: It is very sad to see programmers react against my advise to do
: business with these people and not with others, and then to see them
: fail and lose money later, after a year.

: Nobody listens, how sad...

Please continue to advice but keep the balance.
One advice of mine, learn to say NO to money sometimes.
It may do miricals and may result in more money and better conditions.

A second advice, accept less money in exchange for better conditions.
Unfortunately there will be always companies who because of they have the
better conditions will make pressure (should read as blackmail) on you
later while they PLANNED this all from the beginning.

They see the "juridical system" as a nice way to make money.
Well that's not why it was invented. Be careful here.

Last and probably best advice, as soon you are offered a contract don't
promise anything but rush to a lawyer and listen! It cost some money but
it will keep you from making big mistakes if you are new and innocent.

Welcome to the world of a commercial chess programmer... :)

: BUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTT: I know also guys that steal programs


: (tournament-versions) or championship versions from machines, or
: people stealing source-code !!!!!

or steal dedicated computers or even steal complete Pc's from
tournament halls.

: YOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUURRRRRR Problem. Gambit is fast, cheap and nice.


: Also he has no interest to advantage a certain program or to betray a
: programmer. Thwerefore I like Gambit-Soft. Because he is fair to
: customers AND programmers.

100% true...

- Ed -

Ed Schroder

unread,
Feb 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/1/97
to

From: da...@laraby.tiac.net (James Garner)

> Hegener & Glaser is one of most decent companies I worked with
> the past 12 years.

: Didn't they buy out one of their main US competitors, Fidelity,
: and then do away with them? (Too bad chess software began its rise just
: afterwards. Would have been a great near-monopoly).

Well this what I know or can remember.

Fidelity was going down, H&G took over Fidelity to make Fidelity a
healthy company again. They failed miserabily. Great finincial losses.

After the USA losses they came into trouble themselves.
Result, Saitek Hong Kong took over H&G.

Some thoughts about it (as I see them)...

In the good old days companies like H&G, Fidelty and Novag were extremely
succesful. Chess computers were new and there was no competion from the Pc
because this was an awfull slow machine at that time and the 6502 and
68000/68020 processors they were using were much much faster.

Also on the Pc, Apple and TRS80 only a few chess programs were available.
The BIG change came with the 80486 processor. This processor was much
faster than the 6502 and 68020 H&G and Fidelity were mostly using.

Fidelity, H&G did not forseen this development. Suddenly it was attractive
for programmers to write their programs on the Pc. Also the price of the
Pc programs was much cheaper than the expensive dedicated computers.

Sales went back, first Fidelity and after that H&G because people changed
from dedicated to Pc. Because everything went so fast H&G and Fidelity
were not able to react on the problems.

The only company with a clear vision was Tasc. They developed the RISC-
ChessMachine which was able to compete the 80846. But then the first
Pentium-60 came which was obvious faster than the 30 Mhz RISC from Tasc.

Then the P90, P120, P200 came.
The battle was won by Mr. Intel.

I did not liked it all but when I saw the 40486 I immediately understood
that dedicated chess programs were a "dead end street". So at that time
I decided to rewrite my program for the Pc.

So the whole take over issue was not a question to get a monopoly
position but maybe more a question how to survive for them. However they
undestimated Intel and the revolution in computer chess because of this.

Now they develop cheap dedicated chess computer playing acceptable chess
but the high-end market is lost for them because of the fast Pc's.

- Ed -

Harald Faber

unread,
Feb 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/3/97
to

## Nachricht vom : 30.01.97 weitergeleitet
## Ursprung : /FIDO/REC.GAMES.CHESS.COMPUTER
## Ersteller war : mclane # prima.ruhr.de@1001:1/0

m> From: mcl...@prima.ruhr.de (mclane)
m> Subject: Re: KK's Gold Metal list
m> Organization: Prima e.V. Dortmund


m> >m> I have almost any chess program you could imagine !!
m> >m> I have bought them !

m> >You had no choice, right? :-)

m> How can you surpress feelings like LOVE and passion ?!?!

Oh, I thought of having a look at the competitors.

m> >What about the King?
m> Right. The same problem ! We fought against this methods, I know
m> myself many faxes we have sent to TASC. I have myself sent many faxes
m> on my work at SCHACH-NIGGEMANN to tell them: This copy-protection YOU
m> use is contra-productive.

For they didn't change it must sell well... :-(

m> >m> When I would have a problem with the disk, I would send it to GAMBIT
m> >m> SOFT and within a week I would have a reapired disk back with repaired
m> >m> tokens on it.
m> >m> WHATS THE PROBLEM ?????

m> >I didn't buy from Gambitsoft :-) AND I don't like to do so, it is not
m> >friendly for customers. It costs me time and money.
m> What do you have against Gambit-Soft ?!

Sorry, nothing, misunderstanding, I meant I don't like to send broken
diskettes.

m> It costs you 2 german-Deutsch-Mark If I buy a currywurst with
m> pommes-frites it costs me 5 german-marks.
m> It costs you 5 days, maybe less.

Now I am waiting for 2 weeks to get my diskette back from Eurochess. :-(

m> All in all only Morsch, Ed Schroeder, Richard Lang ... can maybe live
m> from it. Schroeder and Morsch have learned that it is better to sell
m> themselves, not giving away own-rights instead of giving a distributor
m> rights.

Are they really able to live from selling chess programs??

m> It is very sad to see programmers react against my advise to do
m> business with these people and not with others, and then to see them
m> fail and lose money later, after a year.
m> Nobody listens, how sad...

They want to make their own experience. Did you deny smoking in your youth
just because your father told you so? ;-)

m> BUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTT: I know also guys that steal programs
m> (tournament-versions) or championship versions from machines, or
m> people stealing source-code !!!!!

I think it is possible to avoid the loss of source-code.

m> >m> I don't like CD-copy protections becuase I don't want always change
m> >m> the cd between my favorious 10 programs. Imagine I would have to
m> >m> change the cd all starts. BRRRRRRRRRR.
m>
m> >I could live better with inserting a CDRom once a month than sending a
m> >diskette back to the dealer once a month.

m> What are you doing with your harddisc , my friend ?!

Putting in and moving out. :-)
I have a removable frame and from time to time I remove my harddisk to
backup the contents of it on CD. It takes a few days until I get the drive
back but what can I do when there is such a c.p. as in MCP? PRMOVE every
time I pull or push the harddisk from the frame? No, not me.

m> Refreshing the copy protection any month ?!?!?!?

Why not? OK best would be none, but this is better than (for the
thousandth time) the bloody diskette protection.

m> Format C: is not a command to defrag the harddisk. :-)

Right, only when you have Windows installed for more than 6 months. :-)

m> >I removed my CDRom-drive, installed another one and in this time when
m> >changed the configuration I DIDN'T START MCP5. I removed the CDRom-drive 2
m> >hours later after having found out that it doesn't work fine. I completely
m> >removed the drive, meaning that I also removed the device drivers etc so
m> >that the original configuration from before the CDrom-change was active.
m> >But MCP5 refuses to start. Marty's advice (he wrote "...I use a system by
m> >xxx but well it is not perfect...", "...try PRMOVE...") to try this PRMOVE
m> >failed, also an attempt with install so I had to send it back to the
m> >dealer. So what is the conclusion out of this? Every time I change my
m> >hardware I have to remove my installation of MCP? That can't be true and I
m> >am not gonna accept this solution in future.

m> Hmmmmm.

You undestand my problem? Remember there was another posting from another
one here with hardware problems with MCP.

m> >m> Why didn't you send it easily to GAMBIT-SOFT ?!
m> >Because I didn' buy there...
m> YOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUURRRRRR Problem. Gambit is fast, cheap and nice.

How can I know? I am no millionaire and didn't know all the bad politics
about Eurochess so I did buy there because they sold cheaper than
Gambitsoft and so on.
NOW I know.

m> Also he has no interest to advantage a certain program or to betray a
m> programmer. Thwerefore I like Gambit-Soft. Because he is fair to
m> customers AND programmers.

Maybe I'll try there next time, but first I'll try Schachversand
Norddeutschland, he is present in our German Chessnet (did you receive my
info about it?).

m> ok. whatever: I don't want to see any chess-programmer dying for NOT
m> -SELLING ENOUGH UNITS.

Me too.

m> Maybe we should build a foundation for chess-programmers where anybody
m> pays something to make it possible to support
m> chess-computer-developments and programmers efforts in the whole
m> world.

OK, I would subscribe to buy the next MCP and Rebel if they come without
any protection. :-)
Isn't that a good start? :-)

m> Maybe ICCA could do this. They should have enough money ?!

Hehe, you'd better ask santa claus. :-)


Tschuessikowski
Harald

--

Ed Schroder

unread,
Feb 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/4/97
to

From: da...@laraby.tiac.net (James Garner)

: : Didn't they buy out one of their main US competitors, Fidelity,


: : and then do away with them? (Too bad chess software began its rise
just
: : afterwards. Would have been a great near-monopoly).

: Well this what I know or can remember.
:
: Fidelity was going down, H&G took over Fidelity to make Fidelity a
: healthy company again. They failed miserabily. Great finincial losses.

> Why was Fidelity going down? Wasn't Fidelity the largest seller of
> dedicated chess machines in the US at the time, with H&G in second?

Also Saitek was there, at least as big as H&G in these days.

> Wasn't H&G's intention to completely control the market?

I can not answer the question, I was never informed... :)

I am sure they wanted a part of the USA market, what's the point?
In USA also NOVAG and SAITEK were present (and still are!) at that time.
No monopoly position in USA possible for H&G at that time.

- Ed -

mclane

unread,
Feb 5, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/5/97
to

da...@laraby.tiac.net (James Garner) wrote:

>Ed Schroder (rebc...@xs4all.nl) wrote:

>: : Didn't they buy out one of their main US competitors, Fidelity,
>: : and then do away with them? (Too bad chess software began its rise just
>: : afterwards. Would have been a great near-monopoly).
>:
>: Well this what I know or can remember.
>:
>: Fidelity was going down, H&G took over Fidelity to make Fidelity a
>: healthy company again. They failed miserabily. Great finincial losses.

> Why was Fidelity going down? Wasn't Fidelity the largest seller of
>dedicated chess machines in the US at the time, with H&G in second?

> Wasn't H&G's intention to completely control the market?

Of course do german companies often BUY opponent companies to make
them bancrott and then feel better afterwards because they have no
enemy left.

BUT: in this case H+G bought a company that WAS bancrott before they
bought it.

Also a big-boss of H+G took much money and was never seen again with
it.

This made H+G dying.

If you consider how often german companies were succesful in declaring
other companies WAR by selling them ... :-)


mclane

unread,
Feb 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/7/97
to

Harald...@p21.f2.n1.z1001.fidonet.org (Harald Faber) wrote:

>## Nachricht vom : 30.01.97 weitergeleitet
>## Ursprung : /FIDO/REC.GAMES.CHESS.COMPUTER
>## Ersteller war : mclane # prima.ruhr.de@1001:1/0

>m> From: mcl...@prima.ruhr.de (mclane)
>m> Subject: Re: KK's Gold Metal list
>m> Organization: Prima e.V. Dortmund


>m> >m> I have almost any chess program you could imagine !!
>m> >m> I have bought them !

>m> >You had no choice, right? :-)

>m> How can you surpress feelings like LOVE and passion ?!?!

>Oh, I thought of having a look at the competitors.

Which competitors ?!

>m> >What about the King?
>m> Right. The same problem ! We fought against this methods, I know
>m> myself many faxes we have sent to TASC. I have myself sent many faxes
>m> on my work at SCHACH-NIGGEMANN to tell them: This copy-protection YOU
>m> use is contra-productive.

>For they didn't change it must sell well... :-(

Or there are some people at the leadership that don't care much about
anything.

>m> >m> When I would have a problem with the disk, I would send it to GAMBIT
>m> >m> SOFT and within a week I would have a reapired disk back with repaired
>m> >m> tokens on it.
>m> >m> WHATS THE PROBLEM ?????

>m> >I didn't buy from Gambitsoft :-) AND I don't like to do so, it is not
>m> >friendly for customers. It costs me time and money.
>m> What do you have against Gambit-Soft ?!

>Sorry, nothing, misunderstanding, I meant I don't like to send broken
>diskettes.

Aha!

>m> It costs you 2 german-Deutsch-Mark If I buy a currywurst with
>m> pommes-frites it costs me 5 german-marks.
>m> It costs you 5 days, maybe less.

>Now I am waiting for 2 weeks to get my diskette back from Eurochess. :-(

EUROCHESS ???????????? UFF.
Don't buy there !!

Which product you sent to them ?!
These guys are criminals.

Please don't buy at companies that betray programmers !!!!!!!!!

It is not good for programmers and also not nice for customers !!!!!

PLEASE ! If you boycott to buy products from Eurochess instead of
boycotting Mchess-products this would make much more sense !!!!
Not mchess product is bad. Bad the distributor !
Maybe it has a reason that they don't send you mchess-disks back.
It could have a very very good reason.


>m> All in all only Morsch, Ed Schroeder, Richard Lang ... can maybe live
>m> from it. Schroeder and Morsch have learned that it is better to sell
>m> themselves, not giving away own-rights instead of giving a distributor
>m> rights.

>Are they really able to live from selling chess programs??

I think so. Why not ?! They are doing a good job, and they are clever.
They learn from bad experience and the products are ok.


>m> It is very sad to see programmers react against my advise to do
>m> business with these people and not with others, and then to see them
>m> fail and lose money later, after a year.
>m> Nobody listens, how sad...

>They want to make their own experience. Did you deny smoking in your youth
>just because your father told you so? ;-)


I have never smoked. My mother was a nervous and heavy smoker.
I was always permitted to smoke! And decided NOT to smoke.
I tried it out one time, and it did not taste. I stopped it.
Same with alcohol. Here my father was the alcoholic guy.
I tried alcolhol once, but it did'nt taste.


>m> BUUUUUUUUUUUTTTTTTTTTT: I know also guys that steal programs
>m> (tournament-versions) or championship versions from machines, or
>m> people stealing source-code !!!!!

>I think it is possible to avoid the loss of source-code.

Not if you trust in people you should not trust. But this is difficult
to find out. Sometimes people have 2 faces. One friendly they smile to
you , and later one evil face that comes out if you have turned
arround.

>m> >m> I don't like CD-copy protections becuase I don't want always change
>m> >m> the cd between my favorious 10 programs. Imagine I would have to
>m> >m> change the cd all starts. BRRRRRRRRRR.
>m>
>m> >I could live better with inserting a CDRom once a month than sending a
>m> >diskette back to the dealer once a month.

>m> What are you doing with your harddisc , my friend ?!

>Putting in and moving out. :-)
>I have a removable frame and from time to time I remove my harddisk to
>backup the contents of it on CD. It takes a few days until I get the drive
>back but what can I do when there is such a c.p. as in MCP? PRMOVE every
>time I pull or push the harddisk from the frame? No, not me.

That is the problem. Now I understand.

It is your fault. Removable harddiscs do not work nice with
copy-protections. It is YOUR FAULT. Buy a nice harddisc instead of a
removable one and any problems are away. Shall we collect money for
your next HD ?? :-)

>m> Refreshing the copy protection any month ?!?!?!?

>Why not? OK best would be none, but this is better than (for the
>thousandth time) the bloody diskette protection.

I disagree. You know why.

>m> Format C: is not a command to defrag the harddisk. :-)

>Right, only when you have Windows installed for more than 6 months. :-)

>m> >I removed my CDRom-drive, installed another one and in this time when
>m> >changed the configuration I DIDN'T START MCP5. I removed the CDRom-drive 2
>m> >hours later after having found out that it doesn't work fine. I completely
>m> >removed the drive, meaning that I also removed the device drivers etc so
>m> >that the original configuration from before the CDrom-change was active.
>m> >But MCP5 refuses to start. Marty's advice (he wrote "...I use a system by
>m> >xxx but well it is not perfect...", "...try PRMOVE...") to try this PRMOVE
>m> >failed, also an attempt with install so I had to send it back to the
>m> >dealer. So what is the conclusion out of this? Every time I change my
>m> >hardware I have to remove my installation of MCP? That can't be true and I
>m> >am not gonna accept this solution in future.

>m> Hmmmmm.

>You undestand my problem? Remember there was another posting from another
>one here with hardware problems with MCP.

>m> >m> Why didn't you send it easily to GAMBIT-SOFT ?!
>m> >Because I didn' buy there...
>m> YOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUURRRRRR Problem. Gambit is fast, cheap and nice.

>How can I know? I am no millionaire and didn't know all the bad politics
>about Eurochess so I did buy there because they sold cheaper than
>Gambitsoft and so on.
>NOW I know.


Yes - I hope. They sold it cheaper because they wanted to kill Marty
Hirsch.

>m> Also he has no interest to advantage a certain program or to betray a
>m> programmer. Thwerefore I like Gambit-Soft. Because he is fair to
>m> customers AND programmers.

>Maybe I'll try there next time, but first I'll try Schachversand
>Norddeutschland, he is present in our German Chessnet (did you receive my
>info about it?).

Right! Try whatever. But no Eurochess. Thanks.

>m> ok. whatever: I don't want to see any chess-programmer dying for NOT
>m> -SELLING ENOUGH UNITS.

>Me too.

Brilliant. Thats really nice.

>m> Maybe we should build a foundation for chess-programmers where anybody
>m> pays something to make it possible to support
>m> chess-computer-developments and programmers efforts in the whole
>m> world.

>OK, I would subscribe to buy the next MCP and Rebel if they come without
>any protection. :-)
>Isn't that a good start? :-)

Hm...


>m> Maybe ICCA could do this. They should have enough money ?!

>Hehe, you'd better ask santa claus. :-)


I will ask Don Beal ....


>Tschuessikowski
>Harald

>--

Harald Faber

unread,
Feb 10, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/10/97
to

## Nachricht vom : 07.02.97 weitergeleitet

## Ursprung : /FIDO/REC.GAMES.CHESS.COMPUTER
## Ersteller war : mclane # prima.ruhr.de@1001:1/0

m> From: mcl...@prima.ruhr.de (mclane)
m> Subject: Re: KK's Gold Metal list
m> Organization: Prima e.V. Dortmund


m> >m> >m> I have almost any chess program you could imagine !!
m> >m> >m> I have bought them !
m> >m> >You had no choice, right? :-)
m> >m> How can you surpress feelings like LOVE and passion ?!?!
m> >Oh, I thought of having a look at the competitors.
m> Which competitors ?!

I thought of MCP, Genius etc.

m> >Now I am waiting for 2 weeks to get my diskette back from Eurochess. :-(
m>
m> EUROCHESS ???????????? UFF.
m> Don't buy there !!

Why?

m> Which product you sent to them ?!

MCP5.

m> These guys are criminals.
m> Please don't buy at companies that betray programmers !!!!!!!!!
m> It is not good for programmers and also not nice for customers !!!!!

I don't knwow what you are talking about. I read MCP5 for 75DM and 75DM
for upgrade MCP5->6, so I have MCP5+6 for 150DM, where's the problem, I
think they didn't steal MCP from Marty.

m> PLEASE ! If you boycott to buy products from Eurochess instead of
m> boycotting Mchess-products this would make much more sense !!!!
m> Not mchess product is bad. Bad the distributor !

At least with MCP products; promised me for 4 weeks "in 2 days you receive
the MCP6..." and now needed 3 weeks for sending me back a repaired MCP5-
diskette, that's all I know of them.
And it is enough now, I'm fed up.
Do I have the possibility to send such damaged diskettes to other
distributors or am I bound to Euroshit?

m> Maybe it has a reason that they don't send you mchess-disks back.
m> It could have a very very good reason.

I am not wiling to write all the bullshit they told me about this, finally
I have it back and works.

m> >Are they really able to live from selling chess programs??
m> I think so. Why not ?! They are doing a good job, and they are clever.
m> They learn from bad experience and the products are ok.

Yeah, but do they sell so many products that their profit allows them to
live for a year or maybe more from it til the next version comes out? I
can't imagine, but if it is so I have to understand it.

m> >I think it is possible to avoid the loss of source-code.
m>
m> Not if you trust in people you should not trust. But this is difficult
m> to find out. Sometimes people have 2 faces. One friendly they smile to
m> you , and later one evil face that comes out if you have turned
m> arround.

I fear they are getting more and more.

m> >m> What are you doing with your harddisc , my friend ?!
m> >Putting in and moving out. :-)
m> >I have a removable frame and from time to time I remove my harddisk to
m> >backup the contents of it on CD. It takes a few days until I get the drive
m> >back but what can I do when there is such a c.p. as in MCP? PRMOVE every
m> >time I pull or push the harddisk from the frame? No, not me.
m> That is the problem. Now I understand.
m> It is your fault. Removable harddiscs do not work nice with
m> copy-protections. It is YOUR FAULT. Buy a nice harddisc instead of a

Hehe, I have 2 harddisks so that I can continue working when the one was
taken out of the removable frame to create a CD from it.
So I disagree that this is my fault, many programs are not interested if I
have one or 2 harddisks in my computer.

m> removable one and any problems are away. Shall we collect money for
m> your next HD ?? :-)

Why not? OK, I have 1.28GB and 850MB, but who minds having another one?
:-)

m> >How can I know? I am no millionaire and didn't know all the bad politics
m> >about Eurochess so I did buy there because they sold cheaper than
m> >Gambitsoft and so on.
m> >NOW I know.
m> Yes - I hope. They sold it cheaper because they wanted to kill Marty
m> Hirsch.

Kill? How? How did they get the copies of MCP?

m> Right! Try whatever. But no Eurochess. Thanks.

Again: if I have again trouble with the MCP5 or MCP6 diskette, may I send
it to another distributor for replacing or updating?

m> >m> Maybe we should build a foundation for chess-programmers where anybody
m> >m> pays something to make it possible to support
m> >m> chess-computer-developments and programmers efforts in the whole
m> >m> world.
m> >OK, I would subscribe to buy the next MCP and Rebel if they come without
m> >any protection. :-)
m> >Isn't that a good start? :-)
m> Hm...

What doesn't please you here? Because I didn't name your program? ;-)

m> >m> Maybe ICCA could do this. They should have enough money ?!
m> >Hehe, you'd better ask santa claus. :-)
m> I will ask Don Beal ....

Good luck. :-)


For the hundredth time: did you receive my German-Chessnet-info?

Tschuessikowski
Harald

--

MCHESS PRO

unread,
Feb 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/24/97
to

<<
I don't knwow what you are talking about. I read MCP5 for 75DM and 75DM
for upgrade MCP5->6, so I have MCP5+6 for 150DM, where's the problem, I
think they didn't steal MCP from Marty.
>>

Unfortunately, EUROCHESS turned crooked and they DID steal a lot of MCP5
from me. Since May of 1996 I have attempted legal actions to recover some
of my lost income, but it is very difficult to accomplish anything in this
situation. They owe me more than 50,000 DM (35,000 US dollars) and
without that income life has not been easy for me at all.

By dumping M-Chess Pro 5.0 (and 6.0) they have cut into my earnings from
version 6.0 as well.

Also troubling is that despite repeated requests from me and my attorney,
Stamer/EUROCHESS refuses to send me my World Champion trophy from
Paderborn which they accepted for me in October 1995.

However, I will continue with chess programming, despite the difficulties.

If anyone can help me with this, I will be most grateful!

Sincerely,

Marty Hirsch (MCHESS author)


Komputer Korner

unread,
Feb 26, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/26/97
to

Marty, this is astounding. If EUROCHESS really has your trophy and
money and refuse to give it , I would be the first to call for a
boycott.
Can you please explain to everybody here exactly where Eurochess broke
the law because we may have missed the previous posts
on this.
--
Komputer Korner

The inkompetent komputer.

pit...@aol.com

unread,
Feb 27, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/27/97
to

Im Artikel <3314D8...@netcom.ca>, Komputer Korner <kor...@netcom.ca> schreibt:

Dear "inkompetent komputer"

at first you must understand, that I have to be a little bit careful with statements in a public forum, because I´m a german and I dont want being sued by EuroChess and their lawyers. :-((

Fact is : I received the trophy for Marty ( he wasn`t present ) at the WM in Paderborn, I was there the operator of MCP5. At this time I worked for EuroChess. Stamer / EuroChess explained Marty, that he needs the trophy for some advertisement campaignes in germany and received the trophy from me; naturally Marty was informed about this. In every coming law suite I `m willed to give a testimony about this fact.

The main reason why I stopped my cooperation with this company is explained by Marty here in rgcc. Unfortunately the progress in court suites here in germany is very slow and EXPENSIVE ...:-(((((

If you need more detailed information, contact me by private email !

Good luck

-Peter


mclane

unread,
Feb 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/28/97
to

pit...@aol.com wrote:
>Dear "inkompetent komputer"

>at first you must understand, that I have to be a little bit careful with statements in a public forum, because I´m a german
> and I dont want being sued by EuroChess and their lawyers. :-((

>Fact is : I received the trophy for Marty ( he wasn`t present ) at the WM in Paderborn,
>I was there the operator of MCP5. At this time I worked for EuroChess. Stamer / EuroChess explained Marty,
>that he needs the trophy for some advertisement campaignes in germany and received the trophy from me;
>naturally Marty was informed about this. In every coming law suite I `m willed to give a testimony about this fact.

>The main reason why I stopped my cooperation with this company is explained by Marty here in rgcc.
>Unfortunately the progress in court suites here in germany is very slow and EXPENSIVE ...:-(((((

>If you need more detailed information, contact me by private email !

>Good luck

>-Peter


What a pity. So you see: here in germany the bandits can still shoot
!!


mclane

unread,
Feb 28, 1997, 3:00:00 AM2/28/97
to

Komputer Korner <kor...@netcom.ca> wrote:

>Marty, this is astounding. If EUROCHESS really has your trophy and
>money and refuse to give it , I would be the first to call for a
>boycott.


I have told once in these newsgroups that I think making business with
this guy is not a good idea.

Please buy at Gambit-Soft or somebody else you trust. But not there.
My advise was not just spoken into the blue. I think Marty's
statements show this.

> Can you please explain to everybody here exactly where Eurochess broke
>the law because we may have missed the previous posts
>on this.
>--
>Komputer Korner

Yes - you have missed it. But you live in canada. That's far away from
germany.

EUROCHESS was distributor of Mchess here in germany and arround.
And he sold Mchess but did not send Marty the money !!!!

But maybe Marty or anybody else can tell us more precise.
>The inkompetent komputer.


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