A priest of wargames -- Dirk Frickenschmidt (Germany)

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User77568

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Sep 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/26/98
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On CCC Dirk Frickenschmidt wrote to Shaun Graham:


>Shaun,

>if you get trouble with Bob for on-topics, let's debate that or let the
>moderators decide.

Full of slime this priest! Moderators should decide on-topics!


>But this silly struggle about a plitical offtopic is not worth *one* more
post.

Because ------>

>I declare myself guilty of having reacted quite sharply to political stuff
>(Clinton jokes) in a computer chess forum,

Think of that. Frickenschmidt, the priest talked about Clinton jokes. In a
computerchess forum. How delicate. How slimy.


>having had enough of that stuff
>already for a longer while, and I named those I regard as resonsible for
>the worldwide spreding of this kind of "news".

>This was a fault: I should just have kindly asked for stopping the offtopic
>without commenting its content, and I should have guessed that a somewhat
>sarcastic comment would only cause more offtopics.


Why?? As a priest? No, a priestr should be allowed to do that. Sarcastic
comments are mormal expressions for a priest called Frickenschmidt.
I checked that in dejanews.com.


>My apology to the readers and the moderators for this.

Slime.

>Now I can't change what happened, but I can declare in public that
>the very last thing I ever intended was to hurt someones political identity
>or even to see two people quarrel about politics,
>and in this offtopic context about behavior, in CCC.

A priest can always sin. He has access to absolutions. A priest in a
computerchess forum can also write about Clinton jokes. And about the
"resonsible for the worldwide spreding of this kind of news".


>So please both you and Bob blame *me* for mentioning my view
>at all and stop this thread: It's good for nothing and leads nowhere.

After Frickenschmidt has talked about Clinton jokes and the "resonsible of the
worldwide spreding" this thread can be stopped because it's good for nothing
and leads nowhere. In special after the contribution of the priest.


>Let's have it completely deleted and return to computerchess.

Yes, let's delete it. But to keep it in our memories I posted it here in
R.G.C.C.

>If *then* there is any unfair dispute between Bob and you with reasons to
>complain for any of you, that's something else...

Oh, how slimy again, Mother Superior. It was the priest Frickenschmidt
speaking.


>Kind regards
>from Dirk

The slimy priest Frickenschmidt (Germany)


Regards

Dirk Frickenschmidt

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Sep 26, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/26/98
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On 26 Sep 1998 20:23:03 GMT, user...@aol.com (User77568) wrote:

Hi Rolf,

there is hardly anything more slimy than a an anonymous little toad
crawling from the shade from time to time and then crawling back into
the shade of anonymity as fast as it can :-)

Of course your dirty style of alluding to other peoples religion or
profession or whatever personal stuff does not lead very far...

>
>On CCC Dirk Frickenschmidt wrote to Shaun Graham:
>
>
>>Shaun,
>
>>if you get trouble with Bob for on-topics, let's debate that or let the
>>moderators decide.
>
>Full of slime this priest! Moderators should decide on-topics!
>

The only slime is your coment.

To make it clear even to you, however bad willing you may be:
Offenses within on-topics may be a serious moderating cause, as you
can learn by now (preparing you for eventual efforts of CCC
membership).

I guess heavy offtopics should be snipped there, if with or without
offences.
I'm sorry for you that this would prpbably make lots of things you
write unseen :-)

>>But this silly struggle about a plitical offtopic is not worth *one* more
>post.
>
>Because ------>
>
>>I declare myself guilty of having reacted quite sharply to political stuff
>>(Clinton jokes) in a computer chess forum,
>
>Think of that. Frickenschmidt, the priest talked about Clinton jokes. In a
>computerchess forum. How delicate. How slimy.

Of course I didn't, as some slimy little creature lurking in to see
what is going on in CCC could easily see.

I just asked someone to stop this American keyhole obsession within
CCC. Because CCC deals with computerchess and not with rare aspects of
politics. Understandable for you?


>
>>having had enough of that stuff
>>already for a longer while, and I named those I regard as resonsible for
>>the worldwide spreding of this kind of "news".

My only fault was to name the Republicans as responsible for this kind
of daily "news". This was my fault: a personal political opinion is no
way of ending an offtopic (pseudo-)political thread.

So I wrote:
>>This was a fault: I should just have kindly asked for stopping the offtopic
>>without commenting its content, and I should have guessed that a somewhat
>>sarcastic comment would only cause more offtopics.
>
>
>Why?? As a priest? No, a priestr should be allowed to do that. Sarcastic
>comments are mormal expressions for a priest called Frickenschmidt.
>I checked that in dejanews.com.

I confess casual sarcastic comments on postings like yours... :-)
Hope this helps...

About my unneccessary way of responding to an offtopic I had written:


>>My apology to the readers and the moderators for this.


Now it's really nice that you confess your supposed fault as well:
>Slime.
Ever tried some plain sunlight to get dried of it?

>>Now I can't change what happened, but I can declare in public that
>>the very last thing I ever intended was to hurt someones political identity
>>or even to see two people quarrel about politics,
>>and in this offtopic context about behavior, in CCC.
>
>A priest can always sin. He has access to absolutions.

It is probably not your fault that you do not know much about such
matters :-)

>A priest in a
>computerchess forum can also write about Clinton jokes. And about the
>"resonsible for the worldwide spreding of this kind of news".

Look above for modest chances of learning something new and much more
true about this matter.

>>So please both you and Bob blame *me* for mentioning my view
>>at all and stop this thread: It's good for nothing and leads nowhere.
>
>After Frickenschmidt has talked about Clinton jokes and the "resonsible of the
>worldwide spreding" this thread can be stopped because it's good for nothing
>and leads nowhere. In special after the contribution of the priest.
>
>
>>Let's have it completely deleted and return to computerchess.
>
>Yes, let's delete it. But to keep it in our memories I posted it here in
>R.G.C.C.

Yes, you added some more to the memory of your way of posting
successfully :-)))

>>If *then* there is any unfair dispute between Bob and you with reasons to
>>complain for any of you, that's something else...
>
>Oh, how slimy again, Mother Superior. It was the priest Frickenschmidt
>speaking.

Soon as you find new (or same old) words and style for more posts of
this kind, don't hesitate to post it here.

It's all nice for Dejas.
And I know you have been able to make all kinds of experiences with
this fact... :-)

Regards
from Dirk


Chris Whittington

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Sep 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/28/98
to

Dirk Frickenschmidt wrote in message <360e6df0...@news.space.net>...

[ ... ]

> there is hardly anything more slimy than a an anonymous little toad
> crawling from the shade from time to time and then crawling back into
> the shade of anonymity as fast as it can :-)


[ ... ]

> The only slime is your coment.

[ ... ]

> Of course I didn't, as some slimy little creature lurking in to see
> what is going on in CCC could easily see.

[ ... ]

> Ever tried some plain sunlight to get dried of it?

[ ... ]

> I confess casual sarcastic comments on postings like yours... :-)

[ ... ]

> Hope this helps...

> Regards
> from Dirk

Dirk, for those of you who may not realise it, is a priest of the church of
God. Apparently.

In order for Dirk to be free of "off-topics" he has played a major role in:

a) the expulsion and scapegoating of Rolf

b) the life-long quarantining of Chrisw

c) the goading, baiting, entrapment and expulsion of Thorsten.

In each of these cases he has threatened the moderators or decision makers
with his own resignation if they refused to carry out his demands.

Or more simply, he has threatened the ccc with chaotic collapse brought
about by the departure of someone so desirable as himself.

Now, of course, Dirk will wax lyrical with the "off-topic" introduction of
his professional priestly status. Foul, he will cry. For the relevance, we
need to go back in time, back to the aftermath of Zwolle in 1997. And the
Founder's Group. How it began.

After Zwolle, Ed and Chris, who were in constant email contact; had quit
rgcc. The Zwolle case had collapsed. They had no place to go. Somehow
Enrique became involved into this email, not sure how. Then Thorsten.
Thorsten had one of his private email computer chess buddies group going. In
that group was Dirk and Moritz and one or two others. They talked about
Fritz and the usual stuff.

Thorsten just stuffed the two groups together by cc-listing everybody. This
was the 'legitimacy' of the "Founders Group".

Thorsten told us: "Dirk is a protestant pastor". We thought: "good, a bit of
morality". Perhaps the more cynical, or those already with guilty feelings,
thought: "good, some moral conscience to provide legitimacy".

Then it remained to get the two 'difficult' Americans. Bob and Bruce. So
they joined in, reluctantly I thought.

And Dirk told us, maybe three or more times "I am a protestant pastor". No
reason to tell us, other than to stuff a reputation out in front of himself.
But I, and others, gladly accepted it. Enrique began to refer to him as "our
moral conscience", or "what does our moral conscience think?". And Dirk
would, without question, answer, accepting this role.

At the time of the first moderator elections (elected out of and by the
Founder's Group), Dirk's priestly moral status got him elected moderator. I
voted for him, thinking he would act as a foil to the American Hyatt. I
think others felt the same way.

But, then, compared to Dirk, Bob became a beacon of tolerance and
forgiveness. How wrong can one be ? :)

So not "off-topic" Mr Frickenschmidt. Distinctly "on-topic". You placed it
there. You put out the moral conscience status. Then provided none. Only
pomposity and hatred.

Rote Armee Faction gegen die Preussen

Dirk Frickenschmidt

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Sep 28, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/28/98
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On Mon, 28 Sep 1998 10:54:15 +0100, "Chris Whittington"
<chr...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk> wrote:

Chris,

I snipped the parts you picked from my answer to an anonymous
offensive post (to make your point).

Your comment was:


>Dirk, for those of you who may not realise it, is a priest of the church of
>God. Apparently.

I'm not a (catholic) priest, but an evangelical pastor. Insofar true,
though this matter has been introduced from others and especially been
(mis)used for offensive polemical matters from others again and again.
It's becoming quite a habit among three or four posters.

>In order for Dirk to be free of "off-topics" he has played a major role in:
>
>a) the expulsion and scapegoating of Rolf

I voted for the expulsion of Rolf after you demanded it.

I don't recall that for repetition and don't hide behind your demand:
I agreed to vote for the exclusion from CCC after reading rgcc posts
from Rolf which I regarded as not ok towards CCC and CCC-members.
I did not accept a double role for Mr. Tueschen: behaving in CCC and
attacking the founders of that forum from rgcc.

But I was and am not interested in "scapegoating" Rolf, although I
could easily have more than one personal reason to do so.
Instead I accepted and encouraged the new CCC moderators' decision to
give him a new chance.

>b) the life-long quarantining of Chrisw

No.

By the way: I find the expression "life-long quarantaining" a bit
drastic. You can't visit a certain club at the moment. You are not
living in quarantaine. The rest of the world is no small place to go.

I was very upset when you called us "little Hitlers" or "Stalins" or
the like. And I didn't like how you treated others within rgcc as well
as in CCC in more than one case.

But even after all that I would regard it as much more natural to see
you as one among many posters in CCC as well as in rgcc.

You could try to get your way back to CCC. Not as a gesture of "Some
from CCC have won" or "Chris has won", but as simple everyday business
without making a big deal about it. But you make it hard to believe
that you won't jump on others soon as you are back, especially after
all anger you feel for some other CCC members.

I would support your reinstallment whenever I could recognize you are
seriously interested in it. As others would do as well.
But I am sceptical you will ever understand that this is no matter of
who "won a game", but simply of not being bothered or not seing others
being bothered in an offensive way while discussing computer chess.

>c) the goading, baiting, entrapment and expulsion of Thorsten.

I know you regard it as a conspiration against Thorsten.

I regard it as much less, and something very simple: an effort to
oppose Thorsten when he becomes offensive without sense or reason.

>In each of these cases he has threatened the moderators or decision makers
>with his own resignation if they refused to carry out his demands.

I said I could and would not post in an unmoderated forum where
anybody can feel free to use any dirty ad personams towards anybody
else. This is no threat at all, just a personal consequence.

You overestimate me a lot ;-)

Really, look at my postings: having very limited time for
computerchess, I would not be such a great loss for rgcc or CCC.
Some interesting testing position here, some commented test games
there, plus some comments. Not too much compared to what other
on-popic posters post here and there.

You as programmer and computer chess enthusiast are missed much more
there, and concerning the real topic of computerchess I mean that
without any irony.

>Or more simply, he has threatened the ccc with chaotic collapse brought
>about by the departure of someone so desirable as himself.

No.

The only kind of collapse I fear and I oppose is the collapse which
could be brought to hobby forums for reasons of all kinds of
ad-hominems, private vendettas and anonymous or pseudonomous posting
for such reasons.


>
>
>Now, of course, Dirk will wax lyrical with the "off-topic" introduction of
>his professional priestly status. Foul, he will cry.

Yes.

It hurts me. No doubt for someone who takes his profession very
serious, which I do without claiming any pseudo-holy or perfect
status, this is quite a hit below the belt.

That's the purpose, of course, as we both know.

Nevertheless, even knowing that and despite being able to contradict,
it hurts. Are you happy to read my confirmation?

>For the relevance, we
>need to go back in time, back to the aftermath of Zwolle in 1997. And the
>Founder's Group. How it began.

I remember this time - onxce or twice having reread some old posts
from then as far as I still have them. But I am not *living* in the
past.

>After Zwolle, Ed and Chris, who were in constant email contact; had quit
>rgcc. The Zwolle case had collapsed. They had no place to go. Somehow
>Enrique became involved into this email, not sure how. Then Thorsten.
>Thorsten had one of his private email computer chess buddies group going. In
>that group was Dirk and Moritz and one or two others. They talked about
>Fritz and the usual stuff.

Confirmed so far, while remembering some other factors and persons as
well.

>Thorsten just stuffed the two groups together by cc-listing everybody. This
>was the 'legitimacy' of the "Founders Group".
>
>Thorsten told us: "Dirk is a protestant pastor".

Note: it was not my concern to do so.
I neither find this a secret nor very relevant for my little hobby
computer chess.

>We thought: "good, a bit of
>morality". Perhaps the more cynical, or those already with guilty feelings,
>thought: "good, some moral conscience to provide legitimacy".

Note: It was not my intention to play a role like the "moral
conscience of the group". I just improvised like anyone else. And when
we debated difficult questions, I tried to participate with my kind of
experiences and values of course, without making a big deal about
them. But not more.

>Then it remained to get the two 'difficult' Americans. Bob and Bruce. So
>they joined in, reluctantly I thought.

I don't find them that much difficult.

Both were and are a great enrichment for the then newly founded CCC,
and - without talking about that in public - I often took their
"American approach" as reason to rethink my more "European" approach
of dealing with some things more than once.

>And Dirk told us, maybe three or more times "I am a protestant pastor".

I don't remember, that I ever (or at least hardly ever) did the like.
As far as I know I only (or nearly only) reacted when I was being
adressed in that way by others. It was never my intention to make a
big deal about that or play games with it in a computer chess
newsgroup.

I don't have all the old posts any longer, switching through different
browswers etc, so remind me if I'm wrong. But I think you will hardly
find much concerning me playing such a self-chosen role.

>No
>reason to tell us, other than to stuff a reputation out in front of himself.
>But I, and others, gladly accepted it.

Yes, I think I remember you once made some remark like you "were
always going with Dirk's sound/well thought view" or so. Imagine: I
felt not just proud, but in a way unsecure how to deal with that when
I read it. I know very well I'm quite far from perfect.

>Enrique began to refer to him as "our
>moral conscience", or "what does our moral conscience think?".

I don't remember this.
Most people have and some even use morals and their conscience.
I would never claim an extra status concerning this.

>And Dirk
>would, without question, answer, accepting this role.

Answer, yes.
But not "accepting the role" in the way you seem to imagine. It was
not my intention to play "the computer chess pastor" or the like. It
just was my intention to use my experience where it perhaps might be
useful, like anybody else uses his.

>At the time of the first moderator elections (elected out of and by the
>Founder's Group), Dirk's priestly moral status got him elected moderator.

What did that have to do with the election?
Many people in a computer chess forum are not too religious.
So it is even more questionable to believe this.

And frankly: I hope they elected me (behind two others) because they
liked and trusted me, not for some "priestly moral status", as you
call it.

>I
>voted for him, thinking he would act as a foil to the American Hyatt.

I never looked at it like that. What do you mean by "foil to the
American Hyatt". I know there are some cultural differences between
Americans and Europeans - in fact I found it surprising and an
interesting experience to find out about this - but "foil"?
In which way?

>I think others felt the same way.
>
>But, then, compared to Dirk, Bob became a beacon of tolerance and
>forgiveness. How wrong can one be ? :)

You have not always adressed Bob as "beacon of tolerance and
forgiveness", if my memory serves me well :-)
But I gladly agree, seeing you express it in that way. ;-)

You are right concerning offensive stuff. I really feel less tolerant
concerning these matters than Bob (or perhaps some other Americans)
seem to do.
I self-critically thought about this more than once.

I was not successful in changing my mind concerning this: in a certain
way I am still convinced of my view *not* to tolerate the like,
especially as long as I *do* believe in some values.

I just want to indicate to you that I have no fundamentalistic view
about this. I do question myself. But I still found no good arguments
to accept offensive ad-hominems: like discriminating the religious
belief, the profession or whatever while talking about computer chess.

>So not "off-topic" Mr Frickenschmidt. Distinctly "on-topic". You placed it
>there. You put out the moral conscience status. Then provided none. Only
>pomposity and hatred.
>

I feel *much* less hatred than you want to believe.
The rest are just momentary feelings of being upset about insults I
have to read too often.

>
>Rote Armee Faction gegen die Preussen

Come on Chris:
Sorry, but I deny you any full "red" status :-), just as you should
not be too sure about my so called "Prussian" status.
I know the like is convenient, but it may be a bit far from reality.

Yesterday I played some Blitz games on ICC with Junior5.

Suddenly I saw CSTalX over there.
My first impulse was to challenge it for an interesting game.
I always liked CSTal (although I think Thorsten perhaps overestimated
it's playing strength a bit now and then; no reason for conflicts
anyway). I do wish you all the best in developing it, and you
obviously are successful in doing so.

Then I thought: No, whoever is operating it, Thorsten or Chris, he
will read my finger notes and identify me as "enemy". Strange.

No, I thought again, this is all too crazy.
How far have we come?

I issued the challenge.
I got no answer.

It would have been too much chess for a day probably,
as long as we can still waste our time with this stuff here...

Regards
from Dirk


mclane

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Sep 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/29/98
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"Chris Whittington" <chr...@cpsoft.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>But, then, compared to Dirk, Bob became a beacon of tolerance and
>forgiveness. How wrong can one be ? :)

>So not "off-topic" Mr Frickenschmidt. Distinctly "on-topic". You placed it


>there. You put out the moral conscience status. Then provided none. Only
>pomposity and hatred.

>Rote Armee Faction gegen die Preussen

I confirm to your statements. I am disapointed too. I have discussed
this all with my best friend uli. he knows dirk too and have not made
my decision easy. Also i am a protestant too. I am a little offended
how a protestant priest is behaving in public. Maybe i should leave
this church now. Whatever. let us stop talking about this here.

best wishes

mclane


Phil Innes

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Sep 29, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/29/98
to
mclane wrote: I am a little offended

how a protestant priest is behaving in public. Maybe i should leave
this church now. Whatever. let us stop talking about this here.

I am not offended. Let him say what he wants and allow him to
remove his cloak of office to say so if that is necessary in
Germany. You put him in prison Thorsten! Perhaps it is
uncomfortable for you ( just a little) but I think no-one is
interested in attacking the Protestant church. Only speaking
together openly. Is this so strange? See the post from Rolf -
is this an attack? No. I sense no personal aggression in it
only the desire to complete a subject begun earlier.

Are we really so afraid of each other?

Cordially, Phil

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