Why no German opening?
David Osler
major European nations have an opening named after them ... with one
noticeable exception. We have the English Opening, the Scotch, the
French Defence, the Spanish, the Italian, the Polish, the Czech
Benoni, the Dutch, the Danish, the Scandinavian and rather more
obscurely, the Portuguese and even the Swiss Gambit. There's the
Austrian Attack in the Pirc and the Yugoslav Variation in the Dragon.
I believe the Petroff is also known as the Russian. Even some European
regions - such as Catalonia and Sicily - get in on the act. Yet there
isn't AFAIK a German opening, despite the country being the major
chess power of the late nineteenth century. Anybody got any idea why
this is? If there was a German opening, what would it be? And at the
risk of offending most of the posters on this NG, any ideas for a USA
Gambit?
Dave
PS: I'm glad it isn't compulsory to defend national honour in chess.
I'd hate to have to play the English every bloody time I get White.
Enrico
"David Osler" <david...@informa.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:57ea91a6.01081...@posting.google.com...
> A bit of summer trivia this, but it struck me last night that all
> major European nations have an opening named after them ... with one
> noticeable exception. We have the English Opening, the Scotch, the
> French Defence, the Spanish, the Italian, the Polish, the Czech
> Benoni, the Dutch, the Danish, the Scandinavian and rather more
> obscurely, the Portuguese and even the Swiss Gambit. There's the
> Austrian Attack in the Pirc and the Yugoslav Variation in the Dragon.
> I believe the Petroff is also known as the Russian. Even some European
> regions - such as Catalonia and Sicily - get in on the act. Yet there
> isn't AFAIK a German opening, despite the country being the major
> chess power of the late nineteenth century. Anybody got any idea why
Maybe there is no "German Opening" or "German Defence"
because there are so many openings named to german players.
For example
Tarrasch Def. (Qeen's Gambit)
Tarrasch Var. (French Def.)
Lasker Def. (Queen's Gambit declined)
Göring Gambit
Paulsen Var. (Sic. Def.)
Max Lange Attack
Hubner Var. (Nimzo-Indian)
Richter-Rauzer Attack (Sic. Def.)
Sämisch Var. (King's Indian)
Sämisch Var. (Nimzo-Indian)
Schara-Henning Gambit
... and so on.
Not to forget the heavily discussed
'Berlin Defence' (Ruy Lopez / Spanish).
Enrico Rey, Berlin
Sverre Johnsen
gambit (1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.c4 e6) and the Latvian (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5)
And the Swedish variation in the Queens gambit and the Norwegian Variation
in the Spanish deserves to be mentioned.
And of course there also is the Irish (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nxe5) ;-)
But surprisingly there are (AFAIK) no Greek, Bulgarian, Albanian or
Romanian openings.
It may be noted that in many European countries the Two Knights Defence
(1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6) is known as the Preussian Defence (which was
a German state).
Sverre Johnsen
David Osler <david...@informa.com> wrote in article
<57ea91a6.01081...@posting.google.com>...
Tord Kallqvist Romstad
> And of course there also is the Irish (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nxe5) ;-)
>
> But surprisingly there are (AFAIK) no Greek, Bulgarian, Albanian or
> Romanian openings.
I think I have seen the stupid gambit 1. e4 f5 2. exf5 Kf7 referred to
as the Greek defence (or maybe the Greek gambit). Probably not less
sound than the Irish.
--
Tord Romstad
Anders Thulin
David Osler wrote:
> regions - such as Catalonia and Sicily - get in on the act. Yet there
> isn't AFAIK a German opening,
I've seen a proposal to rename the Ruy Lopez (or perhaps it was only
one if it's subvariations) 'The German Opening' as it was German analysts
who made the opening worth playing.
Don't forget, though, that until fairly late Germany was an empire,
made up of separate, and fairly independent nations, cooperating only as
to foreign policy (at least in theory). Prussia was one of them, -- at
one time the most important -- and there is a Prussian opening.
> I'd hate to have to play the English every bloody time I get White.
Somewhat related question here: why is there no British opening?
--
Anders Thulin a...@algonet.se http://www.algonet.se/~ath
Vitalie Calugar
What about Berlin variation? Or is it Kramnik opening these days?
Unknown
>If there was a German opening, what would it be?
berlin?
Unknown
>Tarrasch Def. (Qeen's Gambit)
>Tarrasch Var. (French Def.)
>Lasker Def. (Queen's Gambit declined)
>Göring Gambit
>Paulsen Var. (Sic. Def.)
>Max Lange Attack
>Hubner Var. (Nimzo-Indian)
>Richter-Rauzer Attack (Sic. Def.)
>Sämisch Var. (King's Indian)
>Sämisch Var. (Nimzo-Indian)
>Schara-Henning Gambit
> ... and so on.
messrs. caro and kann worked on the caro-kann.
Tron Walseth
tron
ranier venner <ven...@streubel.com> wrote in message
news:3b7422cb...@news1.sympatico.ca...
Unknown
wrote:
>caro and KAnn lived in vienna.
relevance?
at least one was a german person, no?
Fred Galvin
> You forgot the Hungarian (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Be7), The Icelandic
> gambit (1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.c4 e6) and the Latvian (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5)
>
> And the Swedish variation in the Queens gambit and the Norwegian Variation
> in the Spanish deserves to be mentioned.
>
> And of course there also is the Irish (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nxe5) ;-)
>
> But surprisingly there are (AFAIK) no Greek, Bulgarian, Albanian or
> Romanian openings.
The Latvian was formerly known as the Greco Countergambit. There is a
Bulgarian Variation in the Jaenisch Gambit. Romania's national hero is
commemorated by the Frankenstein-Dracula Variation of the Vienna Game.
> It may be noted that in many European countries the Two Knights
> Defence (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6) is known as the Preussian
> Defence (which was a German state).
And 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bc4 is the Prussian Four Knights
Game.
Unknown
wrote:
i correct myself. they were both german.
Charles Blair
and the Berlin defense, also a Westphalia variation.
Ron Moskovitz
c-b...@uiuc.edu wrote on 8/10/01 12:04 PM:
> There's a Breslau variation, but that's part of Poland now, I think
> and the Berlin defense, also a Westphalia variation.
I believe the Westphalia variation is actually named after a ship which was
taking several players to a tournament (and on which they worked out some of
the ideas) rather than the region.
Alexander Baron
Osler <david...@informa.com> writes
>A bit of summer trivia this, but it struck me last night that all
>major European nations have an opening named after them ... with one
>noticeable exception. We have the English Opening,
You've never heard of the Berlin Defence, the Mannheim Variation?
--
Alexander Baron
Martin Skjoldebrand
<a...@algonet.se> wrote:
1.d4, b6 setting up a kind of hedgehog system is frequently called the
Brittish or English defence, if I'm not mistaken.
Martin S
Enrico
"ranier venner" <ven...@streubel.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3b7422cb...@news1.sympatico.ca...
> On Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:45:56 +0200, "Enrico" <enr...@rey.as> wrote:
>
>
> messrs. caro and kann worked on the caro-kann
Horatio Caro was an Englishman,
Markus Kann was an Austrian.
Enrico Rey
Unknown
"Two German players, Horatio Caro and Marcus Kann, introduced this
defence into competitive practice during the second half of the
eighteenth century". - Egon Varnusz, p. ix, 'Play the Caro-Kann',
Pergamon Press, 1981
Enrico
My lit. reference for Horatio Caro and Markus Kann:
Klaus Lindorfer: 'Das grosse Schachlexikon', 1991.
There
Horatio Caro (1862 - 1920) is called an "Englishman",
Markus Kann ( died 1886) "from Vienna".
M. Kann lived quite sure in Vienna/Austria.
I have other ref., too.
But about Horatio Caro maybe my chess encyclopedia
is wrong and You are right.
In my game base I only find H. Caro games played in Germany.
Many tournaments took place in Berlin.
Not a single H. Caro game in my data base was played in England.
Enrico Rey
Ron Moskovitz
wrote on 8/13/01 3:26 AM:
> My lit. reference for Horatio Caro and Markus Kann:
> Klaus Lindorfer: 'Das grosse Schachlexikon', 1991.
>
> There
> Horatio Caro (1862 - 1920) is called an "Englishman",
> Markus Kann ( died 1886) "from Vienna".
>
> M. Kann lived quite sure in Vienna/Austria.
> I have other ref., too.
One has to be careul. "German," may mean one of many things. It could mean
someone who is a German citizen, or it could mean someone who is ethnically
German; there certainly were a lot of the latter types in and around Vienna
in those years.
Unknown
> M. Kann lived quite sure in Vienna/Austria.
i'm not sure of the relevance of where he lived. perhaps a number of
germans lived in vienna at that time.
anyway...
Jaxaxe
>
> Somewhat related question here: why is there no British opening?
>
agree a move order .........
Eddy
were both born before Germany existed as a unified country (1878)...
R.
"ven...@streubel.com" schreef:
Unknown
>It's interesting that you call Caro and Kann Germans, especially since they
>were both born before Germany existed as a unified country (1878)...
you're gonna be busy rewriting a lot of textbooks buddy if you want
this boring and trivial technicality taken into account.
Eddy
"ven...@streubel.com" schreef:
Enrico
"Eddy" <de.co...@pandora.be> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:3B7F7130...@pandora.be...
> It's interesting that you call Caro and Kann Germans, especially since
they
> were both born before Germany existed as a unified country (1878)...
>
So Martin Luther wasn't a German?
And Johannes Gutenberg, Albrecht Dürer,
Immanuel Kant and Johann S. Bach?
Enrico Rey
Eddy
new country X, would that make people like Napoleon a citizen of that new
country? It's been written in literature that these people were Germans,
in order not to complicate things too much. But in fact it's just an
anachronism.
You might just as well say that Ceasar was Italian then.
Raf
Enrico schreef:
Fred Galvin
> No, they weren't. It's easy, suppose France and Germany were to
> merge into a new country X, would that make people like Napoleon a
> citizen of that new country? It's been written in literature that
> these people were Germans, in order not to complicate things too
> much. But in fact it's just an anachronism. You might just as well
> say that Ceasar was Italian then.
Of course he was. By your logic, there were no Italians when the
Italian opening got its name.
Eddy
Fred Galvin schreef:
The Italian opening got its name after Italy was united in 1860.
Before that (and even today) it was called Giuoco Piano ("calm game"),
often deformed by literature into "giuco piano".
It is historical nonsense to call Caesar an Italian, or to call Ambiorix
a Belgian, or to call Clovis a Frenchman.
R
Fred Galvin
> Fred Galvin schreef:
> >
> > On Tue, 21 Aug 2001, Eddy wrote:
> >
> > > No, they weren't. It's easy, suppose France and Germany were to
> > > merge into a new country X, would that make people like Napoleon a
> > > citizen of that new country? It's been written in literature that
> > > these people were Germans, in order not to complicate things too
> > > much. But in fact it's just an anachronism. You might just as well
> > > say that Ceasar was Italian then.
> >
> > Of course he was. By your logic, there were no Italians when the
> > Italian opening got its name.
>
> The Italian opening got its name after Italy was united in 1860.
I stand corrected. Then *why* is it called the Italian opening, seeing
as it was invented and popularized by non-Italians in the early days
of modern chess? What is "Italian" about it?
A Walkenhorst
correct,as
Germany was exisiting hundreds of years ago as
"Das heilige römische Reich deutscher Nation" from 800 to 1806, so do not
tell people things about topics that you do not know yourself
Andreas Walkenhorst
"Enrico" <enr...@rey.as> wrote in message
news:9lt19k$b6q5c$1...@ID-6430.news.dfncis.de...
Ulrich Dirr
> basic assumption is not correct,as
>
> Germany was exisiting hundreds of years ago as
> "Das heilige römische Reich deutscher Nation" from 800
> to 1806, so do not tell people things about topics that
> you do not know yourself
>
> Andreas Walkenhorst
>
>
> "Enrico" <enr...@rey.as> wrote in message
> news:9lt19k$b6q5c$1...@ID-6430.news.dfncis.de...
> >
> > "Eddy" <de.co...@pandora.be> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:3B7F7130...@pandora.be...
> > > It's interesting that you call Caro and Kann Germans, especially since
> > they
> > > were both born before Germany existed as a unified country (1878)...
I fully agree Andreas. Even the given year "1878" is wrong as the
"Reichsgründung" by Bismarck was in 1871.
Ulrich Dirr
PoD
eduko...@gmail.com
keiner.m...@gmail.com
there are a lot of Openings named after german cities and quite a lot of them once where states of the Holy Roman Empire. Bavaria, Westphalia and Prussia were/are regions of Germany. So there not being a German opening is down to there not being a Germany till 1871, I'd guess.
Just listed the different Variations etc. I found on Wikipedia down below for reference.
Aachen Gambit
Bavarian Gambit
Berlin Variation
Bremen Variation
Breslau Variation (Untill the end of WWII the region of Silesia was German)
Cologne Gambit
Dresden Opening
Duisburg Gambit
Frankfurt Variation
German Defense
Kiel Variation
Leipzig Gambit
Mannheim Variation
Nuremberg Variation
Prussian Game
Tübingen Gambit
Westphalia Defence
Wiesbaden Variation
nastyho...@gmail.com
"Why no German opening?"
Because everybody hates the germans.