Your lead?

[HoneyMonster]

Club game. Matchpoints, game all.

You hold:

xxxxx
Void
Jxxxx
Axx

Partner opens 4H in first seat and RHO passes.
You pass, and LHO doubles.
Partner passes and RHO bids 6C, which is passed around to partner.
He doubles, and that is passed out.

N E S W
4H - - Dbl
- 6C - -
Dbl - - -

What do you lead?

[John Hall]

In article <jgevj3$fug$1...@news.albasani.net>,

Sounds like partner has a spade or diamond void and has made a Lightner
double. (He can hardly be doubling on two potential tricks in high cards
in his hand.)

I'd like to cash the Ace of clubs to have a look at dummy to help me
decide which suit to lead, but unfortunately it's highly likely that
partner has only one trump. I'll lead a spade on the grounds that if the
opponents had 8 spades between them they might have finished in - or at
least investigated - a spade contract, whereas having 8 cards in
diamonds between them wouldn't make the suit so likely to be mentioned.
--
John Hall
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism
by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw

[ttw...@att.net]

Small Diamond, Small Spade second choice.

[Nick France]

Well from the other thread, a spade is obvious. Serious, its close
but with equal lengths I'll favor the diamond lead as with 8 spades
they might have been in spades.

Nick France

[OldPalooka]

Agreed!

[Thomas Dehn]

Partner must have a void in either
spades or diamonds. If he has two trumps,
he can get his ruff later. Thus, you need
to assume that partner has exactly one trump.

If you decide to lead a small, lead your highest spade.
If you decide to lead a D, lead your lowest D.



The 4H opener places partner
with one of the following distributions:
4-8-0-1 (*)
3-9-0-1
0-8-4-1
0-9-3-1
(*) some players will not open 4H with
a four card spade suit.
10 card suits are too unlikely to consider.
The auction makes it unlikely that partner has
0-7-5-1. I'll ignore that as well.

As LHO doubled 4H, and RHO jumped to 6C
rather than investigate other strains,
clubs most likely are 6-3-3-1 across the table
- RHO should have at least six, and LHO might have
found some other bid with a C doubleton.

RHO can also be expected to have at most
four diamonds and at most four spades.


The next thing to consider is RHO's heart control.
This could in theory be any of
o the HA
o a H void
o a H singleton
o four or more hearts, and thus expectation
that his partner has at most a singleton.

A H void can be ruled out. That would place RHO with
3-0-4-6 or 4-0-3-6, and thus LHO with at most
a doubleton in either spades or diamonds.

RHO having a H singleton is possible only if partner has
3-9-0-1, or 0-9-1-3, or that ten card suit after all.
Even then, it would require unusually aggressive bidding by
RHO to jump into 6C with the CA missing, the HA missing, and
some holes to fill in D and S, too.

It thus is likely that RHO holds the HA, and at least
a doubleton heart.


However, none of this helps decide whether
partner's void is in S or in D.




Thomas

[Joachim Parsch]

John Hall schrieb:

>
> In article <jgevj3$fug$1...@news.albasani.net>,
> HoneyMonster <som...@someplace.invalid> writes:
> >Club game. Matchpoints, game all.
> >
> >You hold:
> >
> >xxxxx
> >Void
> >Jxxxx
> >Axx
> >
> >

> >N E S W
> >4H - - Dbl
> >- 6C - -
> >Dbl - - -
> >
> >What do you lead?
>
> Sounds like partner has a spade or diamond void and has made a Lightner
> double. (He can hardly be doubling on two potential tricks in high cards
> in his hand.)
>
> I'd like to cash the Ace of clubs to have a look at dummy to help me
> decide which suit to lead, but unfortunately it's highly likely that
> partner has only one trump.

Leading the ace of clubs can never be right, I think. If partner
has two trumps (which is indeed unlikely), we can lead one
suit on the opening lead, and, if unsuccessful, try the other
when in with the CA.

> I'll lead a spade on the grounds that if the
> opponents had 8 spades between them they might have finished in - or at
> least investigated - a spade contract, whereas having 8 cards in
> diamonds between them wouldn't make the suit so likely to be mentioned.

I agree with your reasoning, but the conclusion would be to lead
a diamond, wouldn't it? Anyway, it's close to being a pure guess,
but any hint is better than no hint.

Joachim

[Dave Flower]

Like all other posters, I know perfectly well that a spade is the
winning play.

If partner has two clubs it probably doesn't matter, so assume partner
has one club. Now if partner holds 4 (possibly 3) spades, the
opponents have only 4 (possibly 5) spades between them, and it becomes
rather unlikely that LHO has a double.

Enough to make it a tough call; perhaps it depends on LHO's style -
whether they favour double or 4S with a 5-card suit

Dave Flower

[John Hall]

In article <4F2B8983...@bunuel.franken.de>,
Joachim Parsch <s...@bunuel.franken.de> writes:
>
>
>John Hall schrieb:

>
>> I'll lead a spade on the grounds that if the
>> opponents had 8 spades between them they might have finished in - or at
>> least investigated - a spade contract, whereas having 8 cards in
>> diamonds between them wouldn't make the suit so likely to be mentioned.
>
>I agree with your reasoning, but the conclusion would be to lead
>a diamond, wouldn't it? Anyway, it's close to being a pure guess,
>but any hint is better than no hint.
>
>Joachim

You're quite right. I must have been having a senior moment.

[David Stevenson]

HoneyMonster wrote

A spade because of Will in New Haven's thread.

--
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[KWSchneider]

This appears to be the fourth posting of the same hand from four
perspectives.

First time ["In a Club Game"] - what do you bid with Kxx Ax Tx KJT9xx
after 4H on your right? [I responded as passing and bidding 6C after
my partner doubled, which seems to be the contract reached by the
table]

Second time ["Matchpoints, all vul"] - what do you bid with AQJxx x
AKx Qxx after 4H (P) P? [I responded as bidding 4S but could see
double as an option, which seems to be the bid at the table]

Third time ["First Seat in a a Club Game"] - what is your bid after 4H
(P) P (X); P (6C) P (P)? [I didn't respond, but pass and 6H [despite
partner's protestations] comes to mind based on the leap to 6C. A
Lightner double seems too risky at MP, since partner should have 6s
for the auction and this would be an automatic lead]

Fourth time ["Your Lead"] - what do you lead after the auction 4H (P)
P (X); P (6C) P (P) X? [this posting]. Difficult to say - the spade
lead looks to be problematic since I'm expecting the spades to be 4-3
with the opps [I wouldn't double with 5spades]. I'd probably trot out
a diamond...

Interesting set of postings.

Kurt

[Herb]

On 2/3/2012 6:25 AM, David Stevenson wrote:
> HoneyMonster wrote
>> Club game. Matchpoints, game all.
>>
>> You hold:
>>
>> xxxxx
>> Void
>> Jxxxx
>> Axx
>>
>> Partner opens 4H in first seat and RHO passes.
>> You pass, and LHO doubles.
>> Partner passes and RHO bids 6C, which is passed around to partner.
>> He doubles, and that is passed out.
>>
>> N E S W
>> 4H - - Dbl
>> - 6C - -
>> Dbl - - -
>>
>> What do you lead?
>
> A spade because of Will in New Haven's thread.
>

You should know better. That's unauthorized information, and a diamond
or club lead is certainly a logical alternative!

- Herb

[Phil Sugar]

I am not impartial, having read all the results already. But I
thought a Lightner double asks primarily for dummy's first bid suit,
and dummy's double implies Spades but does not guarantee anything in
diamonds. By convention, doesn't the lightner double ask for a spade?

[Will in New Haven]

Opening leader thought it would have, for just your reasons, and said
that he would have led a Spade. With a lot of Diamonds and fewer
Spades, he might have changed his thinking and led a Diamond.
However, opener didn't double and didn't say why. So the opening lead
was a Diamond.

--
Will in New Haven

[Adam Beneschan]

No, I don't think so. Lightner doubles just ask for an "unusual"
lead, and you have to listen to the auction. In this auction, since
the doubler earlier preempted, the double pretty much has to show a
void, and doubler is hoping that his partner will have a enough more
length in one suit than the other so that he will guess correctly
which suit to lead. He would have doubled with 3=9=0=1 also, wouldn't
he? In other situations, where the normal lead would be the unbid
suit, doubler may have some strength behind dummy in dummy's suit and
would prefer a lead to set some tricks up there quickly. But the
situation is a lot different when partner is a preemptor and isn't
expected to have much outside strength.

-- Adam

[David Stevenson]

Phil Sugar wrote

No. A takeout double of a suit shows the other suits. It does not
show one suit.

Furthermore, a Lightner double does not always ask for dummy's bid
suit, and certainly not when dummy has not bid a suit.