Jacoby Transfer or Texas Transfer?

[Parson...@yahoo.com]

Matchpoints Pairs game, Unfavorable Vulnerability

Partner opens 1N (15-17 HCPs) and you have the following hand:

S: -
H: JT986543
D: K9
C: K72

Assume that a Texas Transfer (4D) is to play the 4H game, and a Jacoby Transfer (1N-2D-2H-4H) is an invite to slam.

Several pros at my club were polled on this hand, with no clear decision. To me, this is an obvious slam invite because the NLTC (new losing trick count) is 7.0, making it half a trick better than an opening hand in support of a heart contract. However, one of the pros who disagreed was a Grand Life Master, who said the slam invite was reasonable at IMPs, but not at matchpoints.

[Barry Margolin]

In article <ef35778a-7c8f-4c9e...@googlegroups.com>,

How about Jacoby followed by a 3S splinter? That will warn partner that
spade values are wasted.

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

[paul...@infi.net]

Almost the only cards of interest are three Aces and the King of hearts. Minor suit Queens may be useful, but often you would be able to pitch losers on something anyway. So you can probably determine whether slam is reasonable by way of a Jacoby transfer and 4S Exclusion Key Card sequence. Unfortunately you may find yourself too high. I think Barry's suggested self-splinter sequence is probably best, if partner cue-bids you can bid 4S to show the void.

I have no idea what that GLF is talking about. You gain +750 if you make slam and -750 if you go down. If you stop at the five level and can only make 10 tricks, you are -720, a loss of 12 IMPs vs. +13 for the slam. That's not much different than matchpoints.

[Ronald]

What kind of GLM? Someone who gathered enough points over a lifetime of
playing in weak clubs or someone who got his points by playing serious
tournements during a relative short period of time. The title itself
doesn't mean that his opinion counts much.

--
Ronald

[Travis Crump]

One of the requirements for GLM is a national championship[first in an
event that pays platinum]...

[ttw...@att.net]

This seems a good slam exploration. LTC gives 6 (3 H 2D 1C) +1 for lack of HCP -2 for known 10-card Trump Suit. On the other hand, LTC (and HCP) can be poor for highly distributional hands.

The actual bidding would depend on agreements. Some way of showing a big distributional hand. What do things like 1N-2D, 2H-2S or 3S or 4S mean? Obvious things like 1N-2D, 2H-5H seem to restricted in meaning. Perhaps 1N-4D, 4H-5H should be given a different meaning from the Jacoby sequence but which means what?

[smn]

Hi ,Yes I like that Jacoby followed by 3s to show a splinter ,opener should cue bid an A if no pictures in spades . Also if you play exclusion blackwood then texas followed by 4s showing a void and asking for controls outside spades .The advantage of Texas followed by even Blackwood 4n (say 1430) is that it shows at least 6 hearts ;I play that Jacoby followed by 4n shows 5 hearts ;this is important in some auctions .Cheers,smn

[jogs]

1N-2D, 2H-4H is an invite????? Why isn't that a shut-out?

1N-2D, 2H-3C That's a slam interest auction. Play low level bids to exchange info.

I hate Texas transfers. 1N-4H. When natural responder has the option of declaring or being dummy. When holding 6-4 playing in club games, keep the 4 card suit hidden. Many club players can't count and don't defend well.

[paul...@infi.net]

On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 7:59:47 PM UTC-4, jogs wrote:
> On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 7:21:45 AM UTC-7, Parson...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Matchpoints Pairs game, Unfavorable Vulnerability
> >
> > Partner opens 1N (15-17 HCPs) and you have the following hand:
> >
> > S: -
> > H: JT986543
> > D: K9
> > C: K72
> >
> > Assume that a Texas Transfer (4D) is to play the 4H game, and a Jacoby Transfer (1N-2D-2H-4H) is an invite to slam.
> >
> > Several pros at my club were polled on this hand, with no clear decision. To me, this is an obvious slam invite because the NLTC (new losing trick count) is 7.0, making it half a trick better than an opening hand in support of a heart contract. However, one of the pros who disagreed was a Grand Life Master, who said the slam invite was reasonable at IMPs, but not at matchpoints.
>
> > and a Jacoby Transfer (1N-2D-2H-4H) is an invite to slam.
>
> 1N-2D, 2H-4H is an invite????? Why isn't that a shut-out?
>

...
Because a hand that wanted to play at 4H would use Texas. Texas is used with a six card suit when responder wants to stop at game OR has the values for slam and wants to set trumps before using Key Card or control bidding.

[Ronald]

Ok, I admit that I do not know how you can aquire your different titles and
maybe I overreacted. It is just that I am a bit allergic against this focus
on master points. Isn't it sufficient to refer to "a person I know to be a
good player" or "a person whose opinion is relevant"? When I started
playing bridge again four years ago, I bought a book "how I became a life
master playing the weak no trump". Well, I do also play WNT, so I thought
"wow a life master, that must be something". Now I know that it isn't worth
a penny and neither is the book.

--
Ronald

[Kenny McCormack]

In article <nmsro0$ugj$2...@solani.org>, Ronald <r-h....@t-online.de> wrote:
...
>Ok, I admit that I do not know how you can aquire your different titles and
>maybe I overreacted. It is just that I am a bit allergic against this focus
>on master points. Isn't it sufficient to refer to "a person I know to be a
>good player" or "a person whose opinion is relevant"? When I started
>playing bridge again four years ago, I bought a book "how I became a life
>master playing the weak no trump". Well, I do also play WNT, so I thought
>"wow a life master, that must be something". Now I know that it isn't worth
>a penny and neither is the book.

Two comments regarding this:

1) Monster points (as a measure of bridge skill) are like one's school
GPA (as a measure of intelligence or general academic worthiness).
It is a horrible measure, but it is all we got, so we tend to give
it weight. Again, when a given measure is all ya got, you will end
up treating it with respect.

2) OP has generally shown himself to be the kind of person who is
impressed with titles and such, and he obviously respects them.
Nothing wrong with this - just different strokes for different
folks.

--
A liberal, a moderate, and a conservative walk into a bar...

Bartender says, "Hi, Mitt!"

[Lorne Anderson]

On 22/07/2016 00:59, jogs wrote:
> 1N-2D, 2H-4H is an invite????? Why isn't that a shut-out?
>

It would be pretty stupid to play a texas transfer and and jacoby
transfer followed by game to both show the same type of hand. I do not
know anybody who plays texas transfers who does not play one of these
auctions as a slam try.

[jogs]

S: -
H: JT986543
D: K9
C: K72

The secret to valuation on this hand is does partner have wasted values in spades? A jump to 4H wont help us.

S: 6543
H: KQ
D: A54
C: AQ43

1N-2D, 2H-3C, 3D-3S, 4C-6H
3S is first round control. Obviously a void. If SA responder would have rebid 2S after 2H.

S: AQ43
H: KQ
D: A54
C: Q943

1N-2D, 2H-3C, 3D-3S, 4H

Sign off. Spade void is duplication of values.

[Player]

This is a terrible auction. Transfer to hotel and make an auto splinter. Don't future about with non existent suits.

[Lorne Anderson]

I would bid 2D followed by 3S (splinter setting hearts as trumps,
assuming 2S is natural and forcing) then 4H over any minor suit cue.
This should say my slam try is marginal and pave the way for it to be
bid only without waste in spades. If parner then cues the other minor
suit ace I try 5H which should say bid the slam with good trumps.

[jogs]

TBW MSC expert panelists have been making jump rebids into 3 card suits for decades. The 3C rebid on a 3 card suit is not that out of the ordinary. Responder does hold 11 cards in two suits. Also the club suit is lower than hearts. Making it always possible to correct clubs back to hearts. This 3C rebid allows opener to start the cue bidding with 3D at the 3 level.

[Player]

On Friday, 22 July 2016 21:11:53 UTC+7, Player wrote:
> This is a terrible auction. Transfer to hotel and make an auto splinter. Don't future about with non existent suits.

Oh my God I posted this on my phone with auto correct. Transfer to S and then make an auto splinter. Don't futz about with non existent suits was what I meant.
Jogs, I don't care one fig for what "TBW MSC eggspurt panelists" bid. Bidding a 3 card suit here is stupid especially as most of us have methods to show fits for one or both suits. Now how are you going to discount Spade honours?

[Lorne Anderson]

But 3C does not focus attention on the need for no wasteage in spades.
Slam hardly ever makes if opener has the K or Q of spades but if you
start with 3C and get a 3D cue a cue of 3S now will cause opener to add
extra value to his useless spade K, whereas bypassing spades will led
opener to misjudge because he thinks there are 2 spade losers in your
hand. IMO starting with 3S makes it much easier for opener to judge if
his hand is valuable and it is a clear splinter for everybody I know.

[Player]

Lorne, Jobs would rather rely on US "eggspurts" than bid well.

[jogs]

On Saturday, July 23, 2016 at 4:26:30 AM UTC-7, Lorne wrote:
> On 22/07/2016 19:52, jogs wrote:
> > TBW MSC expert panelists have been making jump rebids into 3 card
> > suits for decades. The 3C rebid on a 3 card suit is not that out of
> > the ordinary. Responder does hold 11 cards in two suits. Also the
> > club suit is lower than hearts. Making it always possible to correct
> > clubs back to hearts. This 3C rebid allows opener to start the cue
> > bidding with 3D at the 3 level.
> >
>
> But 3C does not focus attention on the need for no wasteage in spades.

This is true. But please don't take bids independently.

> Slam hardly ever makes if opener has the K or Q of spades but if you
> start with 3C and get a 3D cue a cue of 3S now will cause opener to add
> extra value to his useless spade K, whereas bypassing spades will led
> opener to misjudge because he thinks there are 2 spade losers in your
> hand. IMO starting with 3S makes it much easier for opener to judge if
> his hand is valuable and it is a clear splinter for everybody I know.

Since 3C the club bid occurs before 3S opener will know the 3S cue is a void. If the 3S were an ace, responder would have rebid 2S first.

1N - 2D, 2H - 3C, This is either a cue bidding sequence or clubs is a second suit. To be clarified later.

[Player]

Your comments are nonsensical. Why can't 2s be a second suit?

[paul...@infi.net]

On Saturday, July 23, 2016 at 9:11:41 AM UTC-4, Player wrote:
> Lorne, Jobs would rather rely on US "eggspurts" than bid well.

I have not seen an expert in a bidding poll bid anything like jogs is suggesting here -- they use autosplinters or an artificial rebid in the other major. (This is possible if you play immediate jumps to 3H and 3S as showing 5-5 hands, but always struck me as needlessly complex.)

[jogs]

On Saturday, July 23, 2016 at 7:04:23 AM UTC-7, Player wrote:
> Your comments are nonsensical. Why can't 2s be a second suit?

2S can be a second suit. That's why one can't make 'funny' 2S bids on 3 card suits or advance cuebids. It wont be possible to recover with equal level conversion.

[Player]

So 1nt 2d 2h 2s
Cannot be a second suit? You are joking, right? Aqxx kjxxx xx xx

[jogs]

On Saturday, July 23, 2016 at 3:51:38 PM UTC-7, Player wrote:
> So 1nt 2d 2h 2s
> Cannot be a second suit? You are joking, right? Aqxx kjxxx xx xx

Can you not read? 2S is a second suit most of the time. Do not make 'funny' 2S bids.

[jogs]

On Saturday, July 23, 2016 at 3:51:38 PM UTC-7, Player wrote:

> So 1nt 2d 2h 2s
> Cannot be a second suit? You are joking, right? Aqxx kjxxx xx xx

You have handhogged your partner again. With this hand you should have no interest in slam.
1NT - 2C, 2D - 3S
Doesn't advanced pick-up partnerships play Smolen with no discussion?

[Player]

Smolen? No, why should I. The sequence you have descrbed as I and others have pointed out is an autosplinter with H and a stiff S. Don't you play that? No? Good grief.

[jogs]

>
> Smolen? No, why should I. The sequence you have descrbed as I and others have pointed out is an autosplinter with H and a stiff S. Don't you play that? No? Good grief.

The splinter bid should show a singleton and only a singleton. On the 6 level there is a world of difference between a singleton and a void.
1N - 2D
2H - 3S
This is the bid favored by most of the posters on this thread.
S xxxx H KQ ...............
Doesn't opener fear a spade loser and possible lost of control in hearts? Why would opener cooperate with any slam investigation?
There is no easy way to describe a topless 8 card suit. Makes sense. There just isn't enough bids available to distinguish among all possible hand types. A topless 8 card suit is a low frequency occurrence. Can't afford to reserve a bid for this hand.
1N - 2D
2H - 3C
My sequence allows opener to show a diamond control at a low level.

[france...@googlemail.com]

Unfortunately your sequence doesn't allow any investigation of what the right strain is for playing in game. It's enormously wasteful to reserve opener's 3D to show a diamond control when it is vital to work out whether to play in hearts, clubs or NT when responder has, say, a 3514 vs a 1534. Tell me your auction to 6D on this pair of hand (which came up recently):

AJxxx
-
109xx
KJxx

Kx
Qxx
AKQxx
Q10x

we bid the equivalent of 1NT-2H-2S-3C-3D-4H-6D

[parson...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 10:11:53 AM UTC-4, Player wrote:
> This is a terrible auction. Transfer to hotel and make an auto splinter. Don't future about with non existent suits.

Right -- I mis-represented the options. The question should have been which of the following was the right auction:

1N-2D-2H-3S
or
1N-4D-4H-all pass

[jogs]

So many possible hand types. So few bidding sequences available. It is always possible to construct a board which doesn't fit a particular style of bidding.
5440. Partner's most likely 5 card suit is in the void. Sometimes opponents interfere and clarify the heart situation for us. The spades/clubs is often 10+ cards. The likelihood we belong in a 3rd suit is quite low.
1N-2H, 2S-3C. 3C includes all 5-4, some 6-3, and all strong 10 cards in spades/clubs hands(where there are at least 3 clubs). This style should include more hand types than requiring the clubs to be 4+. This can only be done when the second suit is lower ranking than the first suit.