Please comment on this bidding sequence and apportion the blame
Michiel
S: A K T x x x
H: A x
D: J x x
C: J x
South has:
S: -
H: K x
D: A K T x x
C: A K x x x x
North dealer, all red
Bidding went:
North East South West
----- ---- ----- ----
1S* pass 2D** pass
2S*** pass 3C**** pass
3D pass 3H***** pass
3NT pass 4C pass
4D pass 5C pass
5D pass pass pass
* 11-15 HCP, 5+ spades
** Forcing to game, 5+ diamonds, could have longer clubs
but definitely not 5 hearts
*** 6+ spades, no 4 hearts
**** At least 5-5 in the minors, no 2 spades
***** 4th suit
3NT naturally promises a heart stopper.
1) What do you think about the bidding sequence? Any bids you do or
don't like?
2) Please apportion the blame for missing this slam.
Thanks,
Michiel
Adam Beneschan
Everything looks reasonable until South's final pass.
> 2) Please apportion the blame for missing this slam.
South 100% for being a total wimp. Sheesh, if this hand makes slam
even though North's A-K of spades contribute nothing at all to the
play, then just what was South playing his partner for? A Yarborough?
-- Adam
Bob Lipton
I've been in bidding sequences like this and they certainly do operate
in a fog when partner has shown his own suit twice and you go into a
desperate act of cue bidding. Nonetheless, after north has bid
diamonds twice, south should recognize that there is a real diamond fit
and be willing to shoot six diamonds. I think that he managed to talk
himself out of it, worried that he had misdescribed his shape. And,
looking at north's hand, I would have some difficulty in figuring out
what south was looking for from me. Sure, he's trying for slam, that
much is obvious. But two rounds of cue bids of clubs doesn't leave much
safe cue bidding room before diamonds come up and you have to jump the
level of the bidding.
Since you have a pretty well footnoted auction, why doesn't north bid 3
Spades over 3 hearts? This looks to me to pretty much have to be a cue
bid, an offer to play in spades and showing a minimal hand -- although a
six-card suit head by AKT a side ace and a couple of jacks doesn't look
minimal to me -- cue bids in spades, offers Spades as a trump suit and
gives partner a chance to rightside 6NT with Qxx in hearts -- yes, that
should give him a spade void, but that would give you information, and
there are no bare kings or tenaces that need protection on the opening
lead. In any case, north should look at his hand, say "he's got no more
than three cards in the majors and I've got the covers" and accept the
pressing invitation. And even if he doesn't, south should look at the
hand and figure it's almost certainly no worse than a diamond hook to
make the game and bid the small slam in diamonds himself.
What it looks to me is that both north and south are so busy making
their picture bids that they never stop to hear what partner is saying
and run it against the cards in their own hands. That's the trouble with
a fully footnoted system that allows you to place every card in
partner's hand =-- by the time you've decoded the signals, you're too
exhausted to figure out the message in straight English.
Bidding systems are supposed to make thinking easier they are not meant
to eliminate it. Neither north nor south bothered to think. Full
blame to both of them.
ewleo...@hotmail.com
Where was South?
If partner had just S xxxxx H Axx D xxx C xx wouldn't 6D have a
decent play?
But partner promised more for his opening bid so 6D should have an
even better decent play.
Eric Leong
raija d
"Michiel" <mgge...@chello.nl> wrote in message
news:e092c$47855e7e$4dfb9dc4$21...@news.chello.nl...
South's final Pass was bad. He should see that slam is on opposite
virtually any hand North can have in this auction.
henry...@yahoo.com
I think the main fault lies with North for not clearly showing diamond
support. I have some sympathy for this, since South hasn't revealed
his moose until he pulls 3nt to 4c, but at that point, why doesn't
North bid 5d instead of 4d to confirm real support? After al, could
not North have had
AKQxxx
Qxx
Jx
xx
and bid this way?
If North fails to show genuine support for diamonds, then I have some
sympathy for south's concern that the partnership is off the AH and a
slow minor suit trick.
Even a 4H qbid by North is better than the tepid preference to 4D.
Now South doesn't have to worry about a fast heart loser and will
probably shoot out slam gambling that he can hold his minor suit
losers to one.
South gets blame for being very conservative, but North gets blame for
misdescribing his hand. Since I consider North's crime to be more
serious, I give North 65% and south 35%.
Henrysun909
Dave Flower
You don't give the method of scoring, but if its matchpoints, the
surely South must bid a slam, as 5D is not likely to score well.
However, in IMPs, just how good a slam is 6D ? Probably about 60%.
Finally, why did South not respond 2C, and subsequently reverse into
diamonds ?
Dave Flower
Michiel
5D would actually have shown a weaker hand in our system. In
gameforcing situations, jumping directly to game is the agreed trump
suit is weaker than -if possible- bidding the agreed trump suit on a
lower level.
This is not an invitation to start a discussion about the principle of
fast arrival. I realise 50% of the bridge players hate it and the
other 50% like it. So be it. My partner and me just happen to follow
that rule.
>
> AKQxxx
> Qxx
> Jx
> xx
>
> and bid this way?
No. With this hand (after 1S - 2D - 2S - 3C) we would not bid 3D, but
3H (4th suit) asking for a stop in hearts. 3D guarantees 3+ diamonds.
> If North fails to show genuine support for diamonds
He didn't. 3D guarantees a fit.
> then I have some
> sympathy for south's concern that the partnership is off the AH and a
> slow minor suit trick.
>
> Even a 4H qbid by North is better than the tepid preference to 4D.
> Now South doesn't have to worry about a fast heart loser and will
> probably shoot out slam gambling that he can hold his minor suit
> losers to one.
>
> South gets blame for being very conservative, but North gets blame for
> misdescribing his hand. Since I consider North's crime to be more
> serious, I give North 65% and south 35%.
>
> Henrysun909- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
> - Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -
Michiel
> Spades over 3 hearts?
Mostly because -in our agreements- 3H (fourth suit) most of all asks
for heart-control. Not bidding 3NT after 3H almost certainly denies
one. 1S - 2D - 2S - 3C - 3D - 3H - 3S would -in our system- show a
hand very much like:
S: A Q J x x x
H: x x
D: Q x x
C: A x
> This looks to me to pretty much have to be a cue
> bid, an offer to play in spades and showing a minimal hand -- although a
> six-card suit head by AKT a side ace and a couple of jacks doesn't look
> minimal to me -- cue bids in spades, offers Spades as a trump suit and
> gives partner a chance to rightside 6NT with Qxx in hearts -- yes, that
> should give him a spade void, but that would give you information, and
> there are no bare kings or tenaces that need protection on the opening
> lead. In any case, north should look at his hand, say "he's got no more
> than three cards in the majors and I've got the covers" and accept the
> pressing invitation. And even if he doesn't, south should look at the
> hand and figure it's almost certainly no worse than a diamond hook to
> make the game and bid the small slam in diamonds himself.
>
> What it looks to me is that both north and south are so busy making
> their picture bids that they never stop to hear what partner is saying
> and run it against the cards in their own hands. That's the trouble with
> a fully footnoted system that allows you to place every card in
> partner's hand =-- by the time you've decoded the signals, you're too
> exhausted to figure out the message in straight English.
>
> Bidding systems are supposed to make thinking easier they are not meant
> to eliminate it. Neither north nor south bothered to think. Full
> blame to both of them.- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
henry...@yahoo.com
If 3D guarantees a fit and 3nt promises a heart stopper, then North is
really really wrong not to bid 4h over 4c to show that his stopper is
the ace and not the Qxx.
Once South knows of 3 diamonds, and 6 spades opposite and the heart
ace, then his concern should be whether he can make a grand slam
opposite, e.g.
AKxxxx
A
Qxx
xxx
which would be plausible (clubs 2-2, or clubs 3-1 and the long trump
with the long clubs) if not ironclad. (I could have cooked the hand
by giving opener Axxxxx; A; Qxx; Qxx, of course.)
So if North is known to have 3 diamonds and failed to bid 4H, then I
reduce his blame to 50%
There is no hand with a heart stopper, 6 spades, and 3 diamonds where
slam does not have play (even
AKxxxx
Qxx
xxx
x
has a chance), so South still gets 50% for being cowardly.
Henrysun909
PS: it would be helpful, in the future, to post these systemic
agreements (3d promises 3 card support, 5d is weaker than 4d) when the
problem is presented in the first place.