Apportion the blame

[Balrog]

Matchpoints, Opponents Vul

Tx
J9xx
Kx AKxx xx
KQxx Kxx xx
T9x QJxxx
Axxx AQJxxxx Qxxx
Axx
x
JT

1S - DBL - RDBL - P
2S - P - 2NT - P
3S - P - P - P

Only one other pair failed to bid the game.

What was the worst bid?

How much the of blame goes to each player?

[Co Wiersma]

Op 25-5-2012 20:20, Balrog schreef:

I am pretty sure that there is no blame at all to North.

Co Wiersma

[danc...@yahoo.com]

Who has the ten of hearts?

[Balrog]

In article <7ef9a7c1-807d-4a40-970f-
50928d...@x10g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>, danc...@yahoo.com says...

>
> On May 25, 2:20 pm, Balrog <brog...@rogoff-darrow.net> wrote:
> > Matchpoints, Opponents Vul
> >
> >         Tx
> >         J9xx
> > Kx      AKxx     xx

> > KQxx    Kxx      Tx

> > T9x              QJxxx
> > Axxx    AQJxxxx  Qxxx
> >         Axx
> >         x
> >         JT
> >
> > 1S - DBL - RDBL - P
> > 2S - P - 2NT - P
> > 3S - P - P - P
> >
> > Only one other pair failed to bid the game.
> >
> > What was the worst bid?
> >
> > How much the of blame goes to each player?
>
> Who has the ten of hearts?

East. The opening lead was the HK. Partner made three heart tricks when
West went up with the HQ and the ten fell out. The defense didn't cash
the CA so both clubs went on the fourth heart and a top diamond. Our
result was +200. +450 would have been a top.

BTW, if you read this using a monospaced font, the hands line up.

[Thomas Dehn]

On 05/25/2012 08:20 PM, Balrog wrote:
> Matchpoints, Opponents Vul
>
> Tx
> J9xx
> Kx AKxx xx
> KQxx Kxx xx
> T9x QJxxx
> Axxx AQJxxxx Qxxx
> Axx
> x
> JT
>
> 1S - DBL - RDBL - P
> 2S - P - 2NT - P
> 3S - P - P - P
>
> Only one other pair failed to bid the game.
>
> What was the worst bid?

2S and 3S.

> How much the of blame goes to each player?

100% S.


Thomas

[Barry Margolin]

In article <a2a6qv...@mid.individual.net>,

Thomas Dehn <thomas...@arcor.de> wrote:

> On 05/25/2012 08:20 PM, Balrog wrote:
> > Matchpoints, Opponents Vul
> >
> > Tx
> > J9xx
> > Kx AKxx xx
> > KQxx Kxx xx
> > T9x QJxxx
> > Axxx AQJxxxx Qxxx
> > Axx
> > x
> > JT
> >
> > 1S - DBL - RDBL - P
> > 2S - P - 2NT - P
> > 3S - P - P - P
> >
> > Only one other pair failed to bid the game.
> >
> > What was the worst bid?
>
> 2S and 3S.

What about 2NT? Pulling the redouble shows a distributional hand that's
minimum in HCP, so shouldn't he show support?

>
> > How much the of blame goes to each player?
>
> 100% S.

Also, I know we're focusing on NS, but what about East's pass? Doesn't
he have a strong preference for diamonds? 2D looks like a make, with
all the side suit finesses working.

--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA

[Lorne]

"Balrog" wrote in message
news:MPG.2a29978f7...@news.giganews.com...

.....................

Certainly not to North, although I do not agree with 2N - I would pass 2S.

South is far too strong to bid 2S - he is showing a hand so weak he cannot
stand partner making a penalty double but he has 6 losers and 7 playing
tricks. He is at least 2 tricks stronger than he should be for that bid.

[Balrog]

In article <barmar-AF29A0....@news.eternal-september.org>,
bar...@alum.mit.edu says...

>
> In article <a2a6qv...@mid.individual.net>,
> Thomas Dehn <thomas...@arcor.de> wrote:
>
> > On 05/25/2012 08:20 PM, Balrog wrote:
> > > Matchpoints, Opponents Vul
> > >
> > > Tx
> > > J9xx
> > > Kx AKxx xx
> > > KQxx Kxx xx
> > > T9x QJxxx
> > > Axxx AQJxxxx Qxxx
> > > Axx
> > > x
> > > JT
> > >
> > > 1S - DBL - RDBL - P
> > > 2S - P - 2NT - P
> > > 3S - P - P - P
> > >
> > > Only one other pair failed to bid the game.
> > >
> > > What was the worst bid?
> >
> > 2S and 3S.
>
> What about 2NT? Pulling the redouble shows a distributional hand that's
> minimum in HCP, so shouldn't he show support?

I play that 2NT shows an interest in game opposite a known
distributional hand with minimum in HCP. This must imply at least a
tolerance for spades. With shortness in spades, responder would need a
very good hand to bid again.

>
> >
> > > How much the of blame goes to each player?
> >
> > 100% S.
>
> Also, I know we're focusing on NS, but what about East's pass? Doesn't
> he have a strong preference for diamonds? 2D looks like a make, with
> all the side suit finesses working.

This was a club game. I think most experts would bid 2D but I'm not
surprised that East passed.

[Thomas Dehn]

On 05/25/2012 10:21 PM, Barry Margolin wrote:
> In article<a2a6qv...@mid.individual.net>,
> Thomas Dehn<thomas...@arcor.de> wrote:
>
>> On 05/25/2012 08:20 PM, Balrog wrote:
>>> Matchpoints, Opponents Vul
>>>
>>> Tx
>>> J9xx
>>> Kx AKxx xx
>>> KQxx Kxx xx
>>> T9x QJxxx
>>> Axxx AQJxxxx Qxxx
>>> Axx
>>> x
>>> JT
>>>
>>> 1S - DBL - RDBL - P

>>> 2S - P - 2NT - ;

>>> 3S - P - P - P
>>>
>>> Only one other pair failed to bid the game.
>>>
>>> What was the worst bid?
>>
>> 2S and 3S.
>
> What about 2NT? Pulling the redouble shows a distributional hand that's
> minimum in HCP, so shouldn't he show support?

Not clear. N also has stoppers in all three side suits, and
only a small doubleton spade. Besides, N might have passed 2S,
one could argue that N's hand is not good enough
to act over 2S.


Thomas

[OldPalooka]

2S. This hand is easily worth 3S. A better hand in high cards would pass and bid strongly or pull partner's double. North's 2NT is aggressive or foolhardy facing a hand that states it is bidding 2s because it is subminimum defensively with a six card suit or weak seven bagger, and so failing to bid game after 2NT was almost as bad. North gets negative blame because as Lorne pointed out passing 2S is reasonable. So North -25%, ....

-- Bill Shutts

[Henry Lockwood]

Is there a reason South bid 2S? Why not pass 1SXX, which is game
already and is almost impossible not to make if partner's got a
yarborough?

South has bid like he's holding
xxxxxxx
xxxx
xx
-

and opened because he thought some twos were aces.

HenryL

[Dave Flower]

I seem to be in the minority here, thinking North at least as culpable.

It depends on their style, but South has shown a hand too strong to pre-empt, and North has not shown their full strength (the HJ may well be waste paper, but the CK is unlikely to be under the ace), and has adequate trump support for a 4S bid. North's bidding suggests a more quacky hand.

Dave Flower

[dak...@aol.com]

You got HK opening lead on this auction??!
Did West not hear redouble? Did he not see he defends alone?
Did he think HK might sacrifice a trick?
Should he not go passive and give nothing away?
I see SK +CA +HKQ unless West gets endplayed.

[Adam Lea]

Doesn't redouble promise another bid?

[Adam Lea]

One of the heart losers goes on the DK, so West will not make both heart
honours.

[vsp...@hotmail.com]

Not the way I play it. Part of this
problem is no firm agreement on what
this redouble promises. North should
pass 2S. Play the redoubles promises
tolerance of spades and South has an
easy 4S rebid.

[Barry Margolin]

In article <icadnaA2vqz0R13S...@bt.com>,

But West doesn't know that when he's making his lead. In order to set
the contract, he has to hope that both his heart honors will take
tricks. That's obviously not going to happen if he sacrifices one of
them on the opening lead.

[Lorne]

"Adam Lea" wrote in message news:icadnaE2vqwQRF3S...@bt.com...

>Doesn't redouble promise another bid?

No - it only promises another bid if partner passes after the oppo try to
escape. If partner makes a bid to say he has a useless hand it is normal to
pass unless you can make game opposite a useless 11 count.

[Balrog]

In article <a2c0c074-14c7-425e...@googlegroups.com>,
vsp...@hotmail.com says...

I've never discussed redouble sequences with this partner so I agree
that assuming "standard" methods, my 2NT was a shot hoping that +120
would beat all the +110s. The opponents weren't particularly good
defenders. I'll accept part of the blame but I think 2S was the worst
bid made.

[Thomas Dehn]

Not if opener makes a minimum rebid.
Only if advancer takes out the redouble,
and opener then passes.


Thomas

[Adam Beneschan]

On Friday, May 25, 2012 12:14:40 PM UTC-7, Balrog wrote:

> > On May 25, 2:20 pm, Balrog

> wrote:
> > > Matchpoints, Opponents Vul
> > >
> > >         Tx
> > >         J9xx
> > > Kx      AKxx     xx
> > > KQxx    Kxx      Tx
> > > T9x              QJxxx
> > > Axxx    AQJxxxx  Qxxx
> > >         Axx
> > >         x
> > >         JT
> > >
> > > 1S - DBL - RDBL - P
> > > 2S - P - 2NT - P
> > > 3S - P - P - P

> BTW, if you read this using a monospaced font, the hands line up.

Please don't overlap the hands like this. Everyone else uses four lines for just the North hand, then the next for lines for the East and West hands, and the last four lines for the South hand.

My second bid as South would have been 4S.

-- Adam

[Adam Beneschan]

On Friday, May 25, 2012 11:36:13 PM UTC-7, Henry Lockwood wrote:
> On May 25, 7:20 pm, Balrog

> wrote:
> > Matchpoints, Opponents Vul
> >
> >         Tx
> >         J9xx
> > Kx      AKxx     xx
> > KQxx    Kxx      xx
> > T9x              QJxxx
> > Axxx    AQJxxxx  Qxxx
> >         Axx
> >         x
> >         JT
> >
> > 1S - DBL - RDBL - P
> > 2S - P - 2NT - P
> > 3S - P - P - P
> >
> > Only one other pair failed to bid the game.
> >
> > What was the worst bid?
> >
> > How much the of blame goes to each player?
>
> Is there a reason South bid 2S? Why not pass 1SXX, which is game
> already and is almost impossible not to make if partner's got a
> yarborough?

Great argument, assuming the chance you would play it in 1Sxx was greater than 0.0000%. It isn't.

OK, maybe it is. I did once play against a pair that got mixed up with West thinking the pass of 1Sxx was for penalties, while East thought it was just passing the buck to partner with no preference. We got two overtricks. But that has to be a rare occurrence, although maybe in a club game it happens more often than that.

But unless you want to play for the chance that your opponents are idiots, the score at 1Sxx isn't a good reason to pass. The only legitimate reason to pass with this hand is to hope that partner has something like 1=4=4=4 with good cards in the other three suits and can penalize them. You'd probably still take him out of 2Dx, but maybe 2Hx or 2Cx would work out better for you than a possible spade game (if it makes), especially at these colors. But I'd bid anyway. If you think it's really unlikely that you're going to defend at the 2-level doubled, you should go ahead and bid right away and take a level away from the opponents--or, on this hand, more than a level (since I think it's worth just bidding game).

-- Adam

[Balrog]

In article <cd2b2c63-d8b3-4a6c...@googlegroups.com>,
ad...@irvine.com says...

Sorry - I won't do that again.

[KWSchneider]

There is a ton of blame:

1) East cannot stand for the XX - he must bid 2D
2) With East passing, South MUST stand for XX
3) With East bidding, South has a monster and is worth a 3S bid
4) The auction should have proceeded:

1S-X-XX-2D
3S-P-4S-AP

Kurt