Two Decisions

[Will in New Haven]

1: Regional A pairs event. You are all vul in third and there are two
passes to you. You hold

AKJT xxx Kx xxxx

Your partner was free to open fairly light, so you are not obligated
to bid to protect. You are playing 12-14 1NT, five-card Majors. So,
what do you do?

Pass
1C
1S
1NT



2: You opened 1S. You could have borrowed a point and opened 1NT but
you want the Spade lead.
LHO bids 2D and partner Doubles. RHO passes. What is your call if
a: Partner.s double is negative?
b: Partner's double is a cooperative penalty double?

--
Will in New Haven

[Co Wiersma]

Op 15-6-2013 1:55, Will in New Haven schreef:

1 : 1S
2a : 2H and hope we not end up in the 3-3 fit
2b : pass

Co Wiersma

[judyo...@gmail.com]

> 1 : 1S
>
> 2a : 2H and hope we not end up in the 3-3 fit
>
> 2b : pass
>
>
>
> Co Wiersma

After a negative double that allegedly shows a specific major, the agreement *should* be (but probably is not) that opener's simple bid in the suit shows 3 (or 4 with an embarrassing hand). Opener's jump in the major *should* show 4 with merely a sound opening. With more, opener *should* have to cue or double jump.

The beneficial side effect of such agreement is that responder may not make an offshape negative double without clearly game-invitational value.

Carl

[Will in New Haven]

On Jun 15, 9:32 am, "judyorc...@verizon.net" <judyorc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

According to the conversation at dinner several odd partials were
played. At one table, my friend's RHO opened 1S and she bid 2D. this
was fallowed by a negative double and my friend's partner passed and
her RHO bid 2H. Now the doubler could have bid 2NT and they would have
made at least two but doubler passed and they played a 3-3 Heart fit,
just as Co hoped he would not. At another table one of our other
dining companions had the same auction but he preferred 2H to 2S and
they played a 4-2 fit, making eight tricks. Notrump from either side
makes nine tricks on around 22 combined HCP and there were several
+150s but also quite a few -50 and -100. We defended 2DX for a top
after I couldn't think of anything better to do than leave in
partner's cooperative double. I do wonder how people combine negative
doubles with light third seat openers as opener is supposed to have a
full opener if he or she rebids.

[HoneyMonster]

As Co. 2a would make me vomit but you don't play that; you play
cooperative, so I can happily pass for 2b.

[vsp...@hotmail.com]

I'm beginning to believe negative doubles
only makes sense after a minor suit opening.
Therefore I vote 2c. Partner's double is
a penalty double. No more trap passes
necessary.

[vsp...@hotmail.com]

Forgot. I actually prefer 2d.
Double is a three card raise with 8+ HCP.
Cue is a four card plus raise with 10+ HCP.

1S - (2D) - X - (3D)
p - .p. - .p

is a possible auction.

[Will in New Haven]

Not at all. You still have to trap pass with five trumps. Partner will
pull your double because he is short in the suit or the opponents will
have a better spot. A cooperative penalty double is made with no fit
for partner, cards and three or four trumps and partner uses his
judgment.

Brian had approximately xx - QJx - J9xx - AQJ

Honor-x is a minimal holding for leaving in the double but I figured
to have Spade tricks because of his misfit for Spades.

The idea that one made a penalty double with KJTxx in their suit
before the penalty double became popular is wildly exaggerated. Many
good pairs passed with that hand and hoped partner would reopen, just
as they do now. That is because the double when you each have three or
four trumps is very profitable and you cannot get that double playing
purely penalty doubles _or_ playing negative doubles.

[vsp...@hotmail.com]

I spent my life playing poker. Partners
always seem to have a BIT before passing
with a trap pass. Then I'm ethically forced
to pass unless the reopening is clear-cut.

[Will in New Haven]

I have had the same experience. However, the reopening double is still
clear-cut fairly often because of the large number of cards in
overcaller's suit used up by overcaller and my trapping partner.

I don't double because my partner might be trapping. I double because
I want him or her to compete in some other suit. The penalties are a
side benefit.

--
Will in New Haven

"The laws of poker were established to reduce the neccessity of
shooting people at the table."

[Will in New Haven]

On Jun 17, 10:09 am, vspo...@hotmail.com wrote:

> to pass unless the reopening is clear-cut

I have had the same experience. However, the reopening double is still
clear-cut fairly often because of the large number of cards in
overcaller's suit used up by overcaller and my trapping partner.

I don't double because my partner might be trapping. I double because
I want him or her to compete in some other suit. The penalties are a
side benefit.

--
Will in New Haven

[vsp...@hotmail.com]

I assume you've read or at least heard of the Math of Poker.
Game theory can also be applied to bridge.
Our tricks.
E(tricks) = trumps + (HCP - 20)/3 + e
Equal vulnerability.
This suggests trap passes on the one level are EV-.
Assume there's game in a major. Ten+ tricks in a 8 or 9 card
fit is easier than eight tricks in their 7 card fit.
A one level trap pass is only a favorite when the combined
pattern is 7766. Two level trap passes are trickier.

If there's a BIT by partner I only reopen when I think 95%
of reasonable players will opener.

[vsp...@hotmail.com]

Make that.

If there's a BIT by partner I only reopen when I think 95%

of reasonable players will reopen.

[Will in New Haven]

Yes. Tough book but very good.

--
Will in New Haven

> Game theory can also be applied to bridge.
> Our tricks.
> E(tricks) = trumps + (HCP - 20)/3 + e
> Equal vulnerability.
> This suggests trap passes on the one level are EV-.
> Assume there's game in a major.  Ten+ tricks in a 8 or 9 card
> fit is easier than eight tricks in their 7 card fit.
> A one level trap pass is only a favorite when the combined
> pattern is 7766.   Two level trap passes are trickier.
>
> If there's a BIT by partner I only reopen when I think 95%

> of reasonable players will opener.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Steve Willner]

On 2013-06-14 7:55 PM, Will in New Haven wrote:
> 1: Regional A pairs event. You are all vul in third and there are two
> passes to you. You hold
> AKJT xxx Kx xxxx

Close between pass and 1S. 1C would protect partner's good hand, but

> Your partner was free to open fairly light, so you are not obligated
> to bid to protect.

> You are playing 12-14 1NT, five-card Majors.

1NT would be dreadful at this vulnerability; much more attractive at
other colors.

The choice between pass and 1S depends on knowing just how light partner
would have opened and on such things as the opponents and the state of
our game. I wouldn't criticize either choice, but I'd probably lean to 1S.

> 2: You opened 1S. You could have borrowed a point and opened 1NT but
> you want the Spade lead.

Weren't you, Will, the one who insisted opening one-bids are not lead-
directing?

> LHO bids 2D and partner Doubles. RHO passes. What is your call if
> a: Partner.s double is negative?

2H and 3C are possible. I'd need to know what passed-hand negative
doubles show in the partnership. If they are oriented towards hearts,
2H, with a run to 2NT or 3C possible, depending on the vigor of the double.

> b: Partner's double is a cooperative penalty double?

Pass seems obvious. If partner has xx xxxx QTx xxxx, we might take
three spades and two diamonds, and I think partner will have a little
more than that. :-)

> Brian had approximately xx - QJx - J9xx - AQJ

Looks more like a 2NT bid than a takeout double to me. Or double and
pull 2H to 2NT, though I don't see the point of that. Penalty double,
if you play it that way, looks obvious. Next time, Brian will have
something like xx QJxxx x KQJxx, and he'll wish double were takeout.

--
Help keep our newsgroup healthy; please don't feed the trolls.
Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 swil...@nhcc.net
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA

[Will in New Haven]

On Thursday, June 20, 2013 7:51:32 PM UTC-4, Steve Willner wrote:
> On 2013-06-14 7:55 PM, Will in New Haven wrote: > 1: Regional A pairs event. You are all vul in third and there are two > passes to you. You hold > AKJT xxx Kx xxxx Close between pass and 1S. 1C would protect partner's good hand, but > Your partner was free to open fairly light, so you are not obligated > to bid to protect. > You are playing 12-14 1NT, five-card Majors. 1NT would be dreadful at this vulnerability; much more attractive at other colors. The choice between pass and 1S depends on knowing just how light partner would have opened and on such things as the opponents and the state of our game. I wouldn't criticize either choice, but I'd probably lean to 1S. > 2: You opened 1S. You could have borrowed a point and opened 1NT but > you want the Spade lead. Weren't you, Will, the one who insisted opening one-bids are not lead- directing?

I don't think they should distract one from ones own clear lead. However, if the auction goes in such a way that partner figures out I opened light or if he has no clear lead of his own, I think I'd like a Spade lead.

> LHO bids 2D and partner Doubles. RHO passes. What is your call if > a: Partner.s double is negative? 2H and 3C are possible. I'd need to know what passed-hand negative doubles show in the partnership. If they are oriented towards hearts, 2H, with a run to 2NT or 3C possible, depending on the vigor of the double. > b: Partner's double is a cooperative penalty double? Pass seems obvious. If partner has xx xxxx QTx xxxx, we might take three spades and two diamonds, and I think partner will have a little more than that. :-) > Brian had approximately xx - QJx - J9xx - AQJ Looks more like a 2NT bid than a takeout double to me. Or double and pull 2H to 2NT, though I don't see the point of that. Penalty double, if you play it that way, looks obvious. Next time, Brian will have something like xx QJxxx x KQJxx, and he'll wish double were takeout.

If he weren't a passsed hand, I guess he would. What more would one need for a passed-hand 2H bid? Obv one can think of hands where the lack of a negative double would be a problem but this isn't one of them. And many of the hands that are suitable for a negative double are also suitable for a cooperative penalty double. In fact, people made a negative double on the hand Brian actually had, although most probably would not.

[Eric Leong]

Whatever the double is pass is automatic. Any minus score no matter how small is going to be a lousy board. Surely, your best chance at a plus score is to defend after indicating the good spade lead.

Eric Leong

[Will in New Haven]

Welcome back, Eric. At least I haven't _seen_ you post recently. I think you have a very good point here and I remember some negative doubles left in because the opening bidder had no good rebid that worked out very well. That is especially true because there is a good chance they don't have a huge fit, advancer having failed to raise.