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Cost per masterpoint?
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Kenny McCormack
Oct 15, 2011, 8:54:33 AM10/15/11
to
As we all know, the ACBL masterpoint system is a great marketing tool, to
get people to play ACBL bridge. In fact, the masterpoint system generates
revenue not only for the ACBL, but also for hotels, restaurants, cruise
ship companies and who knows what else...
Somewhere in conversation, the question had arisen as to how much, on
average, a masterpoint costs, once you factor in all the costs. Amazingly,
back when I first heard this discussed, the figure of $1,000/point was
bandied about. This seems outrageous when you first consider it, but keep
in mind that, before inflation, an MP was quite a big deal. When I first
started playing duplicate bridge, winning a club game might get you .35;
now it gets you 3, 4, or even more times that. Of course, dollars have
inflated as well - maybe at about the same rate.
So, care to speculate? What do you think is a reasonable figure?
P.S. One could also speculate on how/why masterpoint inflation occurred.
Comments?
--
"The anti-regulation business ethos is based on the charmingly naive notion
that people will not do unspeakable things for money." - Dana Carpender
Quoted by Paul Ciszek (pciszek at panix dot com). But what I want to know
is why is this diet/low-carb food author doing making pithy political/economic
statements?
Nevertheless, the above quote is dead-on, because, the thing is - business
in one breath tells us they don't need to be regulated (which is to say:
that they can morally self-regulate), then in the next breath tells us that
corporations are amoral entities which have no obligations to anyone except
their officers and shareholders, then in the next breath they tell us they
don't need to be regulated (that they can morally self-regulate) ...
get people to play ACBL bridge. In fact, the masterpoint system generates
revenue not only for the ACBL, but also for hotels, restaurants, cruise
ship companies and who knows what else...
Somewhere in conversation, the question had arisen as to how much, on
average, a masterpoint costs, once you factor in all the costs. Amazingly,
back when I first heard this discussed, the figure of $1,000/point was
bandied about. This seems outrageous when you first consider it, but keep
in mind that, before inflation, an MP was quite a big deal. When I first
started playing duplicate bridge, winning a club game might get you .35;
now it gets you 3, 4, or even more times that. Of course, dollars have
inflated as well - maybe at about the same rate.
So, care to speculate? What do you think is a reasonable figure?
P.S. One could also speculate on how/why masterpoint inflation occurred.
Comments?
--
"The anti-regulation business ethos is based on the charmingly naive notion
that people will not do unspeakable things for money." - Dana Carpender
Quoted by Paul Ciszek (pciszek at panix dot com). But what I want to know
is why is this diet/low-carb food author doing making pithy political/economic
statements?
Nevertheless, the above quote is dead-on, because, the thing is - business
in one breath tells us they don't need to be regulated (which is to say:
that they can morally self-regulate), then in the next breath tells us that
corporations are amoral entities which have no obligations to anyone except
their officers and shareholders, then in the next breath they tell us they
don't need to be regulated (that they can morally self-regulate) ...
Herb
Oct 15, 2011, 10:06:37 AM10/15/11
to
On 10/15/2011 5:54 AM, Kenny McCormack wrote:
> As we all know, the ACBL masterpoint system is a great marketing tool, to
> get people to play ACBL bridge. In fact, the masterpoint system generates
> revenue not only for the ACBL, but also for hotels, restaurants, cruise
> ship companies and who knows what else...
>
> Somewhere in conversation, the question had arisen as to how much, on
> average, a masterpoint costs, once you factor in all the costs. Amazingly,
> back when I first heard this discussed, the figure of $1,000/point was
> bandied about. This seems outrageous when you first consider it, but keep
> in mind that, before inflation, an MP was quite a big deal. When I first
> started playing duplicate bridge, winning a club game might get you .35;
> now it gets you 3, 4, or even more times that. Of course, dollars have
> inflated as well - maybe at about the same rate.
>
> So, care to speculate? What do you think is a reasonable figure?
> P.S. One could also speculate on how/why masterpoint inflation occurred.
> Comments?
>
.35? That was HUGE!
> As we all know, the ACBL masterpoint system is a great marketing tool, to
> get people to play ACBL bridge. In fact, the masterpoint system generates
> revenue not only for the ACBL, but also for hotels, restaurants, cruise
> ship companies and who knows what else...
>
> Somewhere in conversation, the question had arisen as to how much, on
> average, a masterpoint costs, once you factor in all the costs. Amazingly,
> back when I first heard this discussed, the figure of $1,000/point was
> bandied about. This seems outrageous when you first consider it, but keep
> in mind that, before inflation, an MP was quite a big deal. When I first
> started playing duplicate bridge, winning a club game might get you .35;
> now it gets you 3, 4, or even more times that. Of course, dollars have
> inflated as well - maybe at about the same rate.
>
> So, care to speculate? What do you think is a reasonable figure?
> P.S. One could also speculate on how/why masterpoint inflation occurred.
> Comments?
>
I have a couple of un-redeemed paper fractional master point
certificates - one, dated September 9, 1968, from the Colony Bridge Club
on West 71st Street in NYC, for being tied for 2nd in a seven table
game, is for .08 MP. Others include .27 for first in a 6-table game, and
.18 for first in a 4 table game as late as 1983.
- Herb
jonathan23
Oct 15, 2011, 10:19:58 AM10/15/11
to
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:54:33 +0000, Kenny McCormack wrote:
<SNIP>
> Somewhere in conversation, the question had arisen as to how much, on
> average, a masterpoint costs, once you factor in all the costs.
> Amazingly, back when I first heard this discussed, the figure of
> $1,000/point was bandied about. This seems outrageous when you first
> consider it, but keep in mind that, before inflation, an MP was quite a
> big deal. When I first started playing duplicate bridge, winning a club
> game might get you .35; now it gets you 3, 4, or even more times that.
> Of course, dollars have inflated as well - maybe at about the same rate.
>
> So, care to speculate? What do you think is a reasonable figure?
I think $1K/point is way too high unless you're taking the expensive
route every time (going on cruises or to tournaments at good resorts,
travelling internationally and/or paying expensive pros to play with
you). I don't doubt that gold costs more than the lesser types, but red/
silver/black are not nearly that expensive IME even though I do not seek
out weak^H^H^H^H I/N games to try to get them. I am also fortunate that I
live within a reasonable day's drive of lots of regional and sectional
tournaments.
Oddly enough, silver actually looks to be the cheapest species, at least
if I look at what I have and how much I think I paid for them in table
money, parking, meals out while at tournaments etc. I reckon that must be
due to the proliferation of STaC games, which are IMO nothing but a
silver point cow.
>
> P.S. One could also speculate on how/why masterpoint inflation
> occurred. Comments?
I think it has been a long road starting almost at the beginning of the
scheme. If the history that I have read/been told is true, William
McKenney was around when they came up with the idea to use masterpoints
and the state of Masterhood as a marketing tool, and he left positions of
power in the ACBL around 1948-49.
AIUI, prior to sometime in the '60s (maybe?) the prestigious team events
at regionals and nationals were mostly/all scored by either total points
or BAM, and they were generally won consistently by the same small pools
of strong players. IMP events like Swiss teams and Bracketed KO's were
created so that lesser players would have a chance to win more. From
there it seems to have been a gradual process of adding more events,
strata, flights, etc. to try to award more and more MPs per player per
tournament.
I don't know if points/table or points/player stats are available for
tournaments way back when, but I wonder how many were given out decades
ago compared to recently. NABCs in the last decade seem to give out in
the neighbourhood of about 100,000 to about 6,000 players fairly
consistently, and the top winners get more than 300 each, but if they
have to win or place highly in an event like the Vanderbilt to get an
award like that I wouldn't dream of begrudging them.
--
- Jon Campbell
Ottawa Canada
<SNIP>
> Somewhere in conversation, the question had arisen as to how much, on
> average, a masterpoint costs, once you factor in all the costs.
> Amazingly, back when I first heard this discussed, the figure of
> $1,000/point was bandied about. This seems outrageous when you first
> consider it, but keep in mind that, before inflation, an MP was quite a
> big deal. When I first started playing duplicate bridge, winning a club
> game might get you .35; now it gets you 3, 4, or even more times that.
> Of course, dollars have inflated as well - maybe at about the same rate.
>
> So, care to speculate? What do you think is a reasonable figure?
route every time (going on cruises or to tournaments at good resorts,
travelling internationally and/or paying expensive pros to play with
you). I don't doubt that gold costs more than the lesser types, but red/
silver/black are not nearly that expensive IME even though I do not seek
out weak^H^H^H^H I/N games to try to get them. I am also fortunate that I
live within a reasonable day's drive of lots of regional and sectional
tournaments.
Oddly enough, silver actually looks to be the cheapest species, at least
if I look at what I have and how much I think I paid for them in table
money, parking, meals out while at tournaments etc. I reckon that must be
due to the proliferation of STaC games, which are IMO nothing but a
silver point cow.
>
> P.S. One could also speculate on how/why masterpoint inflation
> occurred. Comments?
scheme. If the history that I have read/been told is true, William
McKenney was around when they came up with the idea to use masterpoints
and the state of Masterhood as a marketing tool, and he left positions of
power in the ACBL around 1948-49.
AIUI, prior to sometime in the '60s (maybe?) the prestigious team events
at regionals and nationals were mostly/all scored by either total points
or BAM, and they were generally won consistently by the same small pools
of strong players. IMP events like Swiss teams and Bracketed KO's were
created so that lesser players would have a chance to win more. From
there it seems to have been a gradual process of adding more events,
strata, flights, etc. to try to award more and more MPs per player per
tournament.
I don't know if points/table or points/player stats are available for
tournaments way back when, but I wonder how many were given out decades
ago compared to recently. NABCs in the last decade seem to give out in
the neighbourhood of about 100,000 to about 6,000 players fairly
consistently, and the top winners get more than 300 each, but if they
have to win or place highly in an event like the Vanderbilt to get an
award like that I wouldn't dream of begrudging them.
--
- Jon Campbell
Ottawa Canada
sbt
Oct 15, 2011, 2:07:33 PM10/15/11
to
In article <j7bvq9$i6b$1...@news.xmission.com>, Kenny McCormack
I quit playing ACBL in 1991 and returned in late 2009. Frankly, one of
the advantages of online competition vs face-to-face bridge is the cost
per masterpoint. In just over one year, I've purchased $390 in BB$ and
have accumulated about 350 ACBL masterpoints -- about $1.12 per
masterpoint. Similarly, so far this year, I've played 11 days of
Sectional competition ($176 entry fees) for 56 masterpoints, more that
$3/masterpoint, and that's about as good a result as you'll find from
anyone in this geographic area AND doesn't include meals, travel, or
any other incidental expenses. At our last sectional, I had 3 first
overall finishes, one third overall, and a tie for fifth, generating
28.04MP (most of anyone in the tournament) at an entry cost of $74
(there were two team events where there was a $5 mandatory increment
for an included lunch)...a little under $3/masterpoint, not including
the gas, etc involved in getting to and from the venue.
Looking at it just from entry fees, top players at regionals who play
the bracketed KOs pay over $50 in entry fees for 4 sessions, so even if
they win, they're paying between $1.25 and $1.75/masterpoint, and they
don't win every event they enter. Throw in hotel (figure at least
$60/day, usually more) and travel and you quickly get to $5 or more per
point...and these are the top participants...Joe Q. Public pays just as
many dollars for a much lower return in points.
As to how it occurred, that was gradual. In the very early days,
winning a national title like the Chicago might pay only one or two
masterpoints, and players who hadn't attained LM status had their
totals reduced by a percentage at the start of a new year (I wasn't
around early enough to witness this personally, but overheard
discussions of it from those who had to give it credence). By the time
I started playing ACBL (1971), the concern was that Swiss Teams were a
method of "giving away points" (0.40 for a regional 7-bd match and 0.52
for a regional 9-bd match). The Vanderbilt and Spingold paid 150 for
winning, and overall awards declined rather dramatically from there
(2nd was 0.7x1st, 3rd was 0.5x1st, 4th was 0.35x1st, and lower finishes
were 1st/place) and didn't go nearly as deep as they currently do. When
I tied for 3rd in the Men's BAM (now the Open BAM), we received a
little over 27MP...you now get more than 30 for coming in 25th or 30th.
Further, some time during my hiatus, stratified and stratiflighted
events became the norm and people started getting awards for
below-average games (stratified) and players doing well in the top
flight got credit for the tables in the lower stratiflighted flights
when computing the award for their flight...in the old days, if you won
the (e.g.) Advanced Sr. Masters Teams event, your award was calculated
based upon the number of tables in that event and didn't include the
tables in the non-ASM Teams flight that ran concurrently (granted,
there was a 1.15 multiplier for the 200+ flight, 1.18 for a LM flight,
etc., but that's less than the additional tables provide).
The reasons it occurred are many. A few of those reasons are obvious.
Customers like to get a return and masterpoints are a salve to keep
them coming back. People (particularly competitive people) are driven
at least partly by ego...masterpoint rankings give them something at
which to point indicating that they are accomplished competitors.
Something that I heard a lot in the old days, and still hear today, are
the complaints from people who want to be a Life Master, but think that
it is unfair to have them compete against those who have already
achieved that goal. How they pervert logic in advancing this concept
amazes me. If you can't compete against LMs, how can you possibly
consider yourself to be one of them?
--
Dennis Cohen
<gaz...@shell.xmission.com> wrote:
> As we all know, the ACBL masterpoint system is a great marketing tool, to
> get people to play ACBL bridge. In fact, the masterpoint system generates
> revenue not only for the ACBL, but also for hotels, restaurants, cruise
> ship companies and who knows what else...
>
> Somewhere in conversation, the question had arisen as to how much, on
> average, a masterpoint costs, once you factor in all the costs. Amazingly,
> back when I first heard this discussed, the figure of $1,000/point was
> bandied about. This seems outrageous when you first consider it, but keep
> in mind that, before inflation, an MP was quite a big deal. When I first
> started playing duplicate bridge, winning a club game might get you .35;
> now it gets you 3, 4, or even more times that. Of course, dollars have
> inflated as well - maybe at about the same rate.
>
> So, care to speculate? What do you think is a reasonable figure?
>
> P.S. One could also speculate on how/why masterpoint inflation occurred.
> Comments?
Purely personal anecdote:
> As we all know, the ACBL masterpoint system is a great marketing tool, to
> get people to play ACBL bridge. In fact, the masterpoint system generates
> revenue not only for the ACBL, but also for hotels, restaurants, cruise
> ship companies and who knows what else...
>
> Somewhere in conversation, the question had arisen as to how much, on
> average, a masterpoint costs, once you factor in all the costs. Amazingly,
> back when I first heard this discussed, the figure of $1,000/point was
> bandied about. This seems outrageous when you first consider it, but keep
> in mind that, before inflation, an MP was quite a big deal. When I first
> started playing duplicate bridge, winning a club game might get you .35;
> now it gets you 3, 4, or even more times that. Of course, dollars have
> inflated as well - maybe at about the same rate.
>
> So, care to speculate? What do you think is a reasonable figure?
>
> P.S. One could also speculate on how/why masterpoint inflation occurred.
> Comments?
I quit playing ACBL in 1991 and returned in late 2009. Frankly, one of
the advantages of online competition vs face-to-face bridge is the cost
per masterpoint. In just over one year, I've purchased $390 in BB$ and
have accumulated about 350 ACBL masterpoints -- about $1.12 per
masterpoint. Similarly, so far this year, I've played 11 days of
Sectional competition ($176 entry fees) for 56 masterpoints, more that
$3/masterpoint, and that's about as good a result as you'll find from
anyone in this geographic area AND doesn't include meals, travel, or
any other incidental expenses. At our last sectional, I had 3 first
overall finishes, one third overall, and a tie for fifth, generating
28.04MP (most of anyone in the tournament) at an entry cost of $74
(there were two team events where there was a $5 mandatory increment
for an included lunch)...a little under $3/masterpoint, not including
the gas, etc involved in getting to and from the venue.
Looking at it just from entry fees, top players at regionals who play
the bracketed KOs pay over $50 in entry fees for 4 sessions, so even if
they win, they're paying between $1.25 and $1.75/masterpoint, and they
don't win every event they enter. Throw in hotel (figure at least
$60/day, usually more) and travel and you quickly get to $5 or more per
point...and these are the top participants...Joe Q. Public pays just as
many dollars for a much lower return in points.
As to how it occurred, that was gradual. In the very early days,
winning a national title like the Chicago might pay only one or two
masterpoints, and players who hadn't attained LM status had their
totals reduced by a percentage at the start of a new year (I wasn't
around early enough to witness this personally, but overheard
discussions of it from those who had to give it credence). By the time
I started playing ACBL (1971), the concern was that Swiss Teams were a
method of "giving away points" (0.40 for a regional 7-bd match and 0.52
for a regional 9-bd match). The Vanderbilt and Spingold paid 150 for
winning, and overall awards declined rather dramatically from there
(2nd was 0.7x1st, 3rd was 0.5x1st, 4th was 0.35x1st, and lower finishes
were 1st/place) and didn't go nearly as deep as they currently do. When
I tied for 3rd in the Men's BAM (now the Open BAM), we received a
little over 27MP...you now get more than 30 for coming in 25th or 30th.
Further, some time during my hiatus, stratified and stratiflighted
events became the norm and people started getting awards for
below-average games (stratified) and players doing well in the top
flight got credit for the tables in the lower stratiflighted flights
when computing the award for their flight...in the old days, if you won
the (e.g.) Advanced Sr. Masters Teams event, your award was calculated
based upon the number of tables in that event and didn't include the
tables in the non-ASM Teams flight that ran concurrently (granted,
there was a 1.15 multiplier for the 200+ flight, 1.18 for a LM flight,
etc., but that's less than the additional tables provide).
The reasons it occurred are many. A few of those reasons are obvious.
Customers like to get a return and masterpoints are a salve to keep
them coming back. People (particularly competitive people) are driven
at least partly by ego...masterpoint rankings give them something at
which to point indicating that they are accomplished competitors.
Something that I heard a lot in the old days, and still hear today, are
the complaints from people who want to be a Life Master, but think that
it is unfair to have them compete against those who have already
achieved that goal. How they pervert logic in advancing this concept
amazes me. If you can't compete against LMs, how can you possibly
consider yourself to be one of them?
--
Dennis Cohen
Dave Flower
Oct 15, 2011, 2:54:44 PM10/15/11
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
I played at the Colony Bridge Club frequently; how often did you play
there ?
Dave Flower
Stu Goodgold
Oct 15, 2011, 3:22:59 PM10/15/11
to
Some statistics I have handy:
The last Western Conference STAC had 7805 tables, 15,524 different players, of which 10,234 won MPs, totalling 21,334 MPs.
Assuming an entry fee of $8 (what it is locally), that works out to $1.46 per MP awarded.
One should probably count the cost of travel to the club, but then deduct the value of the food served during the game.
I find that regionals offer me the best MPs for the dollar. Luckily, 2 of our 4 regionals are local, and the entry fee is still $10 a session. The big advantage is regionals pay out more MPs for high finishes.
Nationals on the other hand, are the most expensive per MP. Most involve travel and hotel in a big city, a $20 entry fee, and much more difficult competition, at least in the events unique to the NABCs. I go for the competition, not to win MPs (OK, I do enjoy getting Platinum pts).
-Stu Goodgold
San Jose, CA
The last Western Conference STAC had 7805 tables, 15,524 different players, of which 10,234 won MPs, totalling 21,334 MPs.
Assuming an entry fee of $8 (what it is locally), that works out to $1.46 per MP awarded.
One should probably count the cost of travel to the club, but then deduct the value of the food served during the game.
I find that regionals offer me the best MPs for the dollar. Luckily, 2 of our 4 regionals are local, and the entry fee is still $10 a session. The big advantage is regionals pay out more MPs for high finishes.
Nationals on the other hand, are the most expensive per MP. Most involve travel and hotel in a big city, a $20 entry fee, and much more difficult competition, at least in the events unique to the NABCs. I go for the competition, not to win MPs (OK, I do enjoy getting Platinum pts).
-Stu Goodgold
San Jose, CA
William Watson
Oct 15, 2011, 3:44:42 PM10/15/11
to
On Oct 15, 12:22 pm, Stu Goodgold <st...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Some statistics I have handy:
>
> The last Western Conference STAC had 7805 tables, 15,524 different players, of which 10,234 won MPs, totalling 21,334 MPs.
>
> Assuming an entry fee of $8 (what it is locally), that works out to $1.46 per MP awarded.
>
7805*8*4/21334 = $11.70/masterpoint. Many clubs charge $1.5
> Some statistics I have handy:
>
> The last Western Conference STAC had 7805 tables, 15,524 different players, of which 10,234 won MPs, totalling 21,334 MPs.
>
> Assuming an entry fee of $8 (what it is locally), that works out to $1.46 per MP awarded.
>
surcharge for STAC which would get you close to $14/MP
Will
Herb
Oct 15, 2011, 4:04:34 PM10/15/11
to
a stretch. Lived on W. 70th St. from 1966-72. I can't even remember the
names of the partners with whom I played regularly. One of them got us
an invitation to Al Roth's handicapped money IMP pair game where I
played 3 or 4 times. Won the first time out, and then didn't get as big
a handicap!
- Herb
jogs
Oct 15, 2011, 6:46:32 PM10/15/11
to
On Oct 15, 12:22 pm, Stu Goodgold <st...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Some statistics I have handy:
>
- The last Western Conference STAC had 7805 tables, 15,524 different
>
players, of which 10,234 won MPs, totalling 21,334 MPs.
-
- Assuming an entry fee of $8 (what it is locally), that works out to
$1.46 per MP awarded.
>
> -Stu Goodgold
> San Jose, CA
I got $11.71 per MP.
> San Jose, CA
7805 X 32 / 21,334
dak...@aol.com
Oct 15, 2011, 7:15:47 PM10/15/11
to
"The anti-regulation business ethos is based on the charmingly naive
notion
that people will not do unspeakable things for money." - Dana
Carpender
Quoted by Paul Ciszek (pciszek at panix dot com). But what I want to
know
is why is this diet/low-carb food author doing making pithy political/
economic
statements?
Nevertheless, the above quote is dead-on, because, the thing is -
business
in one breath tells us they don't need to be regulated (which is to
say:
that they can morally self-regulate), then in the next breath tells
us that
corporations are amoral entities which have no obligations to anyone
except
their officers and shareholders, then in the next breath they tell us
they
don't need to be regulated (that they can morally self-regulate) ...
*** The Constitution ethos is based on the contempory-denied notion
notion
that people will not do unspeakable things for money." - Dana
Carpender
Quoted by Paul Ciszek (pciszek at panix dot com). But what I want to
know
is why is this diet/low-carb food author doing making pithy political/
economic
statements?
Nevertheless, the above quote is dead-on, because, the thing is -
business
in one breath tells us they don't need to be regulated (which is to
say:
that they can morally self-regulate), then in the next breath tells
us that
corporations are amoral entities which have no obligations to anyone
except
their officers and shareholders, then in the next breath they tell us
they
don't need to be regulated (that they can morally self-regulate) ...
*** that politicians will not do unspeakable things for power.
*** The great evils of my lifetime were not businessmen, but
POLITICIANS:
*** Mao, Stalin,Hitler, Mao, PolPot, What are you trying to say?
*** That a free market won't adjust unless the DEFINED GOOD
politicians
*** correct the DEFINED EVIL business?
OldPalooka
Oct 15, 2011, 7:56:25 PM10/15/11
to
On Oct 15, 5:54 am, gaze...@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
wrote:
Mike Moneybags went to his first nationals. Flew first class. Stayed
in the best suite. Ate and drank well. Entertained a bit. Played
with his golfing buddies. At the end of ten days he spent $25K and
won 13 master points. Met Paul Pro who convinced him there was a
better way.
Next nationals Mike flew first class, stayed in the best suite, ate
and drank well, entertained a bit, and played with Paul and his
associates for $2K per day. When the smoke cleared he had won 57
mps. So Mike spent $70K to win 70 points, but his current rate had
fallen to a tad under $800, and he was convinced it would improve next
nationals when he dumped Paul and moved up in class to Harley Hustler
and his team of international stars.
wrote:
in the best suite. Ate and drank well. Entertained a bit. Played
with his golfing buddies. At the end of ten days he spent $25K and
won 13 master points. Met Paul Pro who convinced him there was a
better way.
Next nationals Mike flew first class, stayed in the best suite, ate
and drank well, entertained a bit, and played with Paul and his
associates for $2K per day. When the smoke cleared he had won 57
mps. So Mike spent $70K to win 70 points, but his current rate had
fallen to a tad under $800, and he was convinced it would improve next
nationals when he dumped Paul and moved up in class to Harley Hustler
and his team of international stars.
David Goldfarb
Oct 16, 2011, 1:41:14 AM10/16/11
to
The local club I play at most often has an entry fee of $2. (Not
infrequently they have to limit entries, to ensure compliance with
fire codes.) I've won as much as 7 masterpoints there. Usually
less than that, to be sure: the day I did that it was an NAP qualifier,
so the entry fee was $3, and I should also factor in bus fare of
$1.25 each way.
Most of my masterpoints haven't come quite that cheap, but I'm pretty
sure I've never paid into three figures.
--
David Goldfarb |"You will know pain."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | "And you will know fear."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |"And then you will die. Have a pleasant flight."
| -- Babylon 5, "The Parliament of Dreams"
infrequently they have to limit entries, to ensure compliance with
fire codes.) I've won as much as 7 masterpoints there. Usually
less than that, to be sure: the day I did that it was an NAP qualifier,
so the entry fee was $3, and I should also factor in bus fare of
$1.25 each way.
Most of my masterpoints haven't come quite that cheap, but I'm pretty
sure I've never paid into three figures.
--
David Goldfarb |"You will know pain."
gold...@ocf.berkeley.edu | "And you will know fear."
gold...@csua.berkeley.edu |"And then you will die. Have a pleasant flight."
| -- Babylon 5, "The Parliament of Dreams"
jonathan23
Oct 16, 2011, 9:15:31 PM10/16/11
to
On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:54:33 +0000, Kenny McCormack wrote:
<SNIP>
>
<SNIP>
>
> P.S. One could also speculate on how/why masterpoint inflation
> occurred. Comments?
Here's a snippet from an article from Sports Illustrated in 1960 that
> occurred. Comments?
gives a bit of a view of the times and what was considered to be the cost
of masterpoint-chasing back then:
"The ACBL, which admits that it is the master point that changed
tournament bridge from the avocation of the few into the passion of the
many, stumbled into its grading system almost by accident. It was in the
early '30s that the league officially recognized its first "Masters." It
gave this title to the winners of national championships. This meant
there were so few Masters that when they got together they virtually
needed a fourth for bridge. Since this would hardly do, it was decided to
give the winners of a few lesser tournaments something called master
points. By winning three such points a player could become a Master. This
system for conferring a title and prestige excited the country's top
bridge players, and the ACBL soon realized it might increase interest at
all levels of the game if the gimmick were simply expanded. More and more
tournaments were recognized, and higher and higher went the number of
points needed to qualify as a Master.
"By the late '30s the ACBL knew it was holding a promotional grand slam,
and it began to give away points, or fractions of points, at all of its
tournaments. The league established a complicated system, which made the
point award at tournaments proportionate to the level and numbers of
competitors likely to be there. It also founded a superior point, called
a red point, which could only be won in regional or national events where
the competition was very tough. To attain certain exalted categories of
Master, a player had to have red points in his competitive background.
"With its grading system in order, the ACBL set its awards, eventually
establishing the six classifications for players it has now. These begin
with the Junior Masters, who have one point and get a most inauspicious
white card to mark their achievement. There are 50,000 Junior Masters.
Next come Masters, National Masters, Senior Masters, Advanced Senior
Masters and, finally, Life Masters. There are 3,200 of these last, and
they have 300 points or more, at least 30 of which are red points. They
receive a glossy gold-tinted card, plus a lifetime ACBL membership, which
saves them from paying league dues, $2 a year. It is a modest saving at
best, since it is estimated that entry fees and travel costs cause even
the best players to spend at least $20 for every point they win."
Kenny McCormack
Oct 17, 2011, 4:01:07 AM10/17/11
to
In article <j7fvjj$sud$1...@dont-email.me>, jonathan23 <camp...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:54:33 +0000, Kenny McCormack wrote:
>
><SNIP>
>>
>> P.S. One could also speculate on how/why masterpoint inflation
>> occurred. Comments?
>
>Here's a snippet from an article from Sports Illustrated in 1960 that
>gives a bit of a view of the times and what was considered to be the cost
>of masterpoint-chasing back then:
...
>On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:54:33 +0000, Kenny McCormack wrote:
>
><SNIP>
>>
>> P.S. One could also speculate on how/why masterpoint inflation
>> occurred. Comments?
>
>Here's a snippet from an article from Sports Illustrated in 1960 that
>gives a bit of a view of the times and what was considered to be the cost
>of masterpoint-chasing back then:
>saves them from paying league dues, $2 a year. It is a modest saving at
>best, since it is estimated that entry fees and travel costs cause even
>the best players to spend at least $20 for every point they win."
Cool! Thanks for posting this. I remember when - when SI considered bridge
>best, since it is estimated that entry fees and travel costs cause even
>the best players to spend at least $20 for every point they win."
a sport.
Considering that inflation from 1960 to present is probably about 10X, this
would get us to $200/point today - and that's for "even the best players".
Surely, that would make the overall average considerably higher than that.
P.S. How did you get that article in? Were you able to scan in the text,
or (horror of horrors!) did you have to type it all in? (In any case,
thanks again)
--
But the Bush apologists hope that you won't remember all that. And they
also have a theory, which I've been hearing more and more - namely,
that President Obama, though not yet in office or even elected, caused the
2008 slump. You see, people were worried in advance about his future
policies, and that's what caused the economy to tank. Seriously.
(Paul Krugman - Addicted to Bush)
jonathan23
Oct 17, 2011, 8:21:05 AM10/17/11
to
On Oct 17, 4:01 am, gaze...@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)
wrote:
>
> Considering that inflation from 1960 to present is probably about 10X, this
> would get us to $200/point today - and that's for "even the best players".
> Surely, that would make the overall average considerably higher than that.
I wouldn't be surprised if serious masterpoint hunting cost that much
or more. Someplace else in this article there's mention of the cost
of hiring a pro at that time as $25-100 per session.
>
> P.S. How did you get that article in? Were you able to scan in the text,
> or (horror of horrors!) did you have to type it all in? (In any case,
> thanks again)
>
You can search and read everything in the Sports Illustrated vault,
every issue from #1 in the 50s on up to...I'm not sure where the vault
ends but I think it might be pretty recently. Each article can be
viewed as a HTML page (which can be copied and pasted if desired, as I
did with the above), or as scans of the original magazine in a viewer
just as if you're leafing through it. The HTML seems to be scanned
and might have a couple glitches in it, however they didn't do the
bridge diagrams properly so looking at the scans is better for reading
the hands.
Anyway, there lots of bridge content from the 50s-70s when Goren had a
regular column (I believe it was ghostwritten by Dick Frey, who was an
excellent writer, at least for some of Goren's tenure in SI). There
are articles by other writers too on the Dallas Aces and national/
world championships of that era. Ray Cave (later managing editor of
TIME) wrote the article I quoted above. There are other articles on
bridge by Walter Bingham (sportswriter), Thomas Thompson (who covered
the JFK assassination for Life magazine), Robert Cantwell (novelist
and onetime associate editor of TIME).
You can also find some bridge content from magazines like Life in
Google Books if you search for it.
The SI vault site is at: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/
wrote:
> In article <j7fvjj$su...@dont-email.me>, jonathan23 <campb...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:54:33 +0000, Kenny McCormack wrote:
>
> ><SNIP>
>
> >> P.S. One could also speculate on how/why masterpoint inflation
> >> occurred. Comments?
>
> >Here's a snippet from an article from Sports Illustrated in 1960 that
> >gives a bit of a view of the times and what was considered to be the cost
> >of masterpoint-chasing back then:
> ...
> >saves them from paying league dues, $2 a year. It is a modest saving at
> >best, since it is estimated that entry fees and travel costs cause even
> >the best players to spend at least $20 for every point they win."
>
> Cool! Thanks for posting this. I remember when - when SI considered bridge
> a sport.
You're welcome.
> >On Sat, 15 Oct 2011 12:54:33 +0000, Kenny McCormack wrote:
>
> ><SNIP>
>
> >> P.S. One could also speculate on how/why masterpoint inflation
> >> occurred. Comments?
>
> >Here's a snippet from an article from Sports Illustrated in 1960 that
> >gives a bit of a view of the times and what was considered to be the cost
> >of masterpoint-chasing back then:
> ...
> >saves them from paying league dues, $2 a year. It is a modest saving at
> >best, since it is estimated that entry fees and travel costs cause even
> >the best players to spend at least $20 for every point they win."
>
> Cool! Thanks for posting this. I remember when - when SI considered bridge
> a sport.
>
> Considering that inflation from 1960 to present is probably about 10X, this
> would get us to $200/point today - and that's for "even the best players".
> Surely, that would make the overall average considerably higher than that.
or more. Someplace else in this article there's mention of the cost
of hiring a pro at that time as $25-100 per session.
>
> P.S. How did you get that article in? Were you able to scan in the text,
> or (horror of horrors!) did you have to type it all in? (In any case,
> thanks again)
>
every issue from #1 in the 50s on up to...I'm not sure where the vault
ends but I think it might be pretty recently. Each article can be
viewed as a HTML page (which can be copied and pasted if desired, as I
did with the above), or as scans of the original magazine in a viewer
just as if you're leafing through it. The HTML seems to be scanned
and might have a couple glitches in it, however they didn't do the
bridge diagrams properly so looking at the scans is better for reading
the hands.
Anyway, there lots of bridge content from the 50s-70s when Goren had a
regular column (I believe it was ghostwritten by Dick Frey, who was an
excellent writer, at least for some of Goren's tenure in SI). There
are articles by other writers too on the Dallas Aces and national/
world championships of that era. Ray Cave (later managing editor of
TIME) wrote the article I quoted above. There are other articles on
bridge by Walter Bingham (sportswriter), Thomas Thompson (who covered
the JFK assassination for Life magazine), Robert Cantwell (novelist
and onetime associate editor of TIME).
You can also find some bridge content from magazines like Life in
Google Books if you search for it.
The SI vault site is at: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/
Stu Goodgold
Oct 17, 2011, 8:04:01 PM10/17/11
to
Yeah, I need a new calculator! Or not use one at all. At least I can do better approximations in my head.
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