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Opening 1n with a 5 card major
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smn
Dec 27, 2012, 7:15:13 PM12/27/12
to
Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
vsp...@hotmail.com
Dec 27, 2012, 8:51:35 PM12/27/12
to
On Thursday, December 27, 2012 4:15:13 PM UTC-8, smn wrote:
> Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
Did the 'expert' sneer because he received the poor result?
> Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
Opening 1NT solves the rebid problem.
Will in New Haven
Dec 27, 2012, 8:59:28 PM12/27/12
to
On Dec 27, 7:15 pm, smn <smnewber...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
It is a totally reasonable decision. I don't consider that Heart suit
> Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
weak but it is still reasonable to open the hand 1NT. Was the "expert"
wearing a sign saying "expert?" The reason I wouldn't open that hand
1NT is because I have no Strong NT partnerships anymore. I would have
opened it 1NT in the individual the other day.
--
Will in New Haven
Eric Leong
Dec 28, 2012, 1:55:10 AM12/28/12
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On Dec 27, 4:15 pm, smn <smnewber...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
I have no problem opening a five card major 1NT if the major is weak.
> Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
If the major is strong I prefer opening one of the major because if
partner has a fitting honor he will be more aggressive in accepting
game or slam because the major suit potentially can run.
Eric Leong
pgmer6809
Dec 28, 2012, 2:20:49 AM12/28/12
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On Dec 27, 4:15 pm, smn <smnewber...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
Your hand is ideal for opening 1NT with a 5 card major.
1. You have 3 in the other major, so if pard transfers you will not
miss an 8 card fit.
2. Your major is hearts, so you shut out their spades (if they have
them)
3. A good percentage of your HCP are outside of your major.
Pard and I rarely open 1NT (strong) with a 5 card major, but with this
one I would not hesitate.
BTW there are many experts(real ones) who would open 1NT with any
5332 pattern and the right value range. Even with 2=5=3=3.
france...@googlemail.com
Dec 28, 2012, 4:49:01 AM12/28/12
to
On Friday, December 28, 2012 12:15:13 AM UTC, smn wrote:
> Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
Look at Richard Pavlicek's website (www.rpbridge.net) where he has statistics comparing the imps gained/lost on hands which were opened 1M at one table and 1NT at the other. Opening 1H instead of 1NT is a big winner; opening 1S instead of 1NT much less so.
> Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
One obvious reason why this may be the case is that a 1NT opening prevents a 1S overcall (which makes 1NT more tempting with a doubleton spade).
On your sample hand I'd open 1H every time, because
- I play in a regular partnership with well-developed methods after a 1H opening. Inexperienced partnerships tend to find 1NT bidding easier as the system is well defined.
- It is a very suitable hand for suit play, with lots of controls and few intermediates. KQx QJ9xx KQx Kx is definitely a 1NT opening.
patmp...@gmail.com
Dec 28, 2012, 5:02:27 AM12/28/12
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On Friday, December 28, 2012 5:49:01 PM UTC+8, france...@googlemail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 28, 2012 12:15:13 AM UTC, smn wrote:
>
> > Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
>
>
>
> Look at Richard Pavlicek's website (www.rpbridge.net) where he has statistics comparing the imps gained/lost on hands which were opened 1M at one table and 1NT at the other. Opening 1H instead of 1NT is a big winner; opening 1S instead of 1NT much less so.
>
>
>
> One obvious reason why this may be the case is that a 1NT opening prevents a 1S overcall (which makes 1NT more tempting with a doubleton spade).
>
>
You mean a 1S response, right?
> On Friday, December 28, 2012 12:15:13 AM UTC, smn wrote:
>
> > Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
>
>
>
> Look at Richard Pavlicek's website (www.rpbridge.net) where he has statistics comparing the imps gained/lost on hands which were opened 1M at one table and 1NT at the other. Opening 1H instead of 1NT is a big winner; opening 1S instead of 1NT much less so.
>
>
>
> One obvious reason why this may be the case is that a 1NT opening prevents a 1S overcall (which makes 1NT more tempting with a doubleton spade).
>
>
Co Wiersma
Dec 28, 2012, 6:38:31 AM12/28/12
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Op 28-12-2012 1:15, smn schreef:
I do not know whats the best opening bid with that hand
I do not know what is a 30% bid.
I do not know how to solve the troubles in the Middle East
But I do know that your right hand opponent was not an expert.
Co Wiersma
> Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
>
I dont know much.
>
I do not know whats the best opening bid with that hand
I do not know what is a 30% bid.
I do not know how to solve the troubles in the Middle East
But I do know that your right hand opponent was not an expert.
Co Wiersma
Co Wiersma
Dec 28, 2012, 6:39:46 AM12/28/12
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rhm
Dec 28, 2012, 7:36:51 AM12/28/12
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On Dec 28, 1:15 am, smn <smnewber...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
A good discussion, though 4 years old, also with statistics can be
> Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1 major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very strong) .What do you think. smn
found at
http://www.bridgebase.com/forums/topic/15252-5332-five-card-major-1nt-or-1m/
Pavliceks statistics though interesting are a bit dubious, because the
1NT covers all possible ranges, but opening 1NT when holding 12-14 and
a 5 card major has different considerations than when holding a strong
notrump.
This decision is often intertwined with system considerations
Personally I find it useful when playing 2/1 and partner opens with a
major and subsequently shows a balanced hand I can count on him being
12-14 or rarely 18-19, which he will clarify later in the bidding
anyway, but almost never 15-17. I find this helpful when considering
or rejecting slam bidding.
I am prepared to open most balanced hands with a 5 card major 1NT to
have this advantage, even if this incurs a small cost.
I also play a 1NT response to a major as semiforcing.
Again it is helpful if opener can not have a balanced hand in the
15-17 range and pass by opener is more common and his rebids are more
descriptive.
Rainer Herrmann
france...@googlemail.com
Dec 28, 2012, 8:56:18 AM12/28/12
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Opening 1H instead of 1NT is a big winner; opening 1S instead of 1NT much less so. One obvious reason why this may be the case is that a 1NT opening prevents a 1S overcall (which makes 1NT more tempting with a doubleton spade).
> > You mean a 1S response, right?
No, a 1NT opening prevents a 1S overcall. This can be very useful.
> > You mean a 1S response, right?
france...@googlemail.com
Dec 28, 2012, 8:59:31 AM12/28/12
to
> > On your sample hand I'd open 1H every time, because
> - I play in a regular partnership with well-developed methods after a 1H opening. Inexperienced partnerships tend to find 1NT bidding easier as the system is well defined.
> - It is a very suitable hand for suit play, with lots of controls and few intermediates. KQx QJ9xx KQx Kx is definitely a 1NT opening.
> What you bid after a 1S respond ?
In one partnership I bid 1NT which we play as wide range.
> - I play in a regular partnership with well-developed methods after a 1H opening. Inexperienced partnerships tend to find 1NT bidding easier as the system is well defined.
> - It is a very suitable hand for suit play, with lots of controls and few intermediates. KQx QJ9xx KQx Kx is definitely a 1NT opening.
> What you bid after a 1S respond ?
In my usual partnership, we an artificial set of rebids.
See my comment above about having well-developed methods.
Will in New Haven
Dec 28, 2012, 10:13:39 AM12/28/12
to
is bad for 1NT because partner might transfer to Spades with exactly
five Spades and exactly three Hearts is more than offset by the fact
that opening 1NT will cause the opponents to miss their Spade fit
quite often.
Barry Margolin
Dec 28, 2012, 10:19:20 AM12/28/12
to
In article
<849cb1cc-e19a-40f6...@eo2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
In particular, there are two opponents, but only one partner, so twice
as much chance for spades to be their suit rather than partner's.
--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA
<849cb1cc-e19a-40f6...@eo2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
as much chance for spades to be their suit rather than partner's.
--
Barry Margolin
Arlington, MA
smn
Dec 28, 2012, 7:34:21 PM12/28/12
to
Where I have noticed inferior scores is when the bidding goes 1n-p-p-p and my partner has 6 or 7 hcp vs 1h-2h-p-p-p ,2h making 3. Regards smn
Paul Hightower
Dec 29, 2012, 2:07:47 AM12/29/12
to
<france...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:70671ba1-adef-429e...@googlegroups.com...
I couldn't find those stats on his web site -- didn't appear to be under
Odds & Probability or various other headings -- were they in an article?
news:70671ba1-adef-429e...@googlegroups.com...
On Friday, December 28, 2012 12:15:13 AM UTC, smn wrote:
> Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1
> major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and
> afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a
> 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I
> would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with
> a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very
> strong) .What do you think. smn
Look at Richard Pavlicek's website (www.rpbridge.net) where he has
statistics comparing the imps gained/lost on hands which were opened 1M at
one table and 1NT at the other. Opening 1H instead of 1NT is a big winner;
opening 1S instead of 1NT much less so.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Is there any statistics about success rate when opening 1n rather then 1
> major.I commonly do it .I did it with s AJ6 h A10765 d K4 c K53 and
> afterward my expert right hand opponent sneered at the bid saying it was a
> 30% bid.I doubt that .Besides with a weak heart as in this instance I
> would have opened 1n even back in the days when I hardly ever did it with
> a 5 card major because the suit is week (I also would if the suit is very
> strong) .What do you think. smn
Look at Richard Pavlicek's website (www.rpbridge.net) where he has
statistics comparing the imps gained/lost on hands which were opened 1M at
one table and 1NT at the other. Opening 1H instead of 1NT is a big winner;
opening 1S instead of 1NT much less so.
I couldn't find those stats on his web site -- didn't appear to be under
Odds & Probability or various other headings -- were they in an article?
rhm
Dec 29, 2012, 4:32:59 AM12/29/12
to
On Dec 29, 8:07 am, "Paul Hightower" <paulh...@net.invalid> wrote:
> <franceshin...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
You can find them under "major events" when you scroll down
http://www.rpbridge.net/rpme.htm
Rainer Herrmann
> <franceshin...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
http://www.rpbridge.net/rpme.htm
Rainer Herrmann
Co Wiersma
Dec 29, 2012, 8:00:52 AM12/29/12
to
Op 29-12-2012 10:32, rhm schreef:
What means W-L-T percent in those statistic?
Andrew B.
Dec 29, 2012, 8:30:33 AM12/29/12
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On Friday, December 28, 2012 9:49:01 AM UTC, france...@googlemail.com wrote:
> Look at Richard Pavlicek's website (www.rpbridge.net) where he has statistics comparing the imps gained/lost on hands which were opened 1M at one table and 1NT at the other. Opening 1H instead of 1NT is a big winner; opening 1S instead of 1NT much less so.
>
Unless I'm misreading the table on http://www.rpbridge.net/9x41.htm, it's "better" to open 1NT with 5 hearts, but 1S with 5 spades.
> Look at Richard Pavlicek's website (www.rpbridge.net) where he has statistics comparing the imps gained/lost on hands which were opened 1M at one table and 1NT at the other. Opening 1H instead of 1NT is a big winner; opening 1S instead of 1NT much less so.
>
vsp...@hotmail.com
Dec 29, 2012, 10:48:44 AM12/29/12
to
by going to the website.
Yes, it says opening 1NT with 5 hearts did
better than opening 1H.
Barry Margolin
Dec 29, 2012, 11:06:26 AM12/29/12
to
Co Wiersma
Dec 29, 2012, 11:54:45 AM12/29/12
to
Op 29-12-2012 17:06, Barry Margolin schreef:
Co Wiersma
> In article <50dee982$0$6965$e4fe...@news2.news.xs4all.nl>,
> Co Wiersma <Wi...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>> What means W-L-T percent in those statistic?
>
> Win-Loss-Tie
>
thx
> Co Wiersma <Wi...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
>> What means W-L-T percent in those statistic?
>
> Win-Loss-Tie
>
Co Wiersma
vsp...@hotmail.com
Dec 29, 2012, 5:57:42 PM12/29/12
to
the 100 boards with the largest swings.
The file size limited him to only 100 boards.
Open 1S vs. Open 1NT
Pavlicek posted 100 of the 183 boards in his sample.
W-L-T is win, lost, and tie.
In many of the examples the experts were opening
1NT with 5422. In two boards they open 1NT
with 6322.
A fairer test of 1S vs 1NT would be restricted
to only 5332 patterns.
Darin Takemoto
Dec 29, 2012, 8:47:08 PM12/29/12
to
In article <98c4f6e2-e2c4-45b5...@googlegroups.com>,
I quickly visually scanned the 100 1S vs. 1NT hands and found 18 hands
which were not 5332 (3 of which were 6322). In those 18 hands opening
1NT beat opening 1S 48-29. So in the fairer 5332 comparison opening 1S
has an even bigger advantage than in the unfair comparison.
Darin
which were not 5332 (3 of which were 6322). In those 18 hands opening
1NT beat opening 1S 48-29. So in the fairer 5332 comparison opening 1S
has an even bigger advantage than in the unfair comparison.
Darin
Bertil
Dec 31, 2012, 6:40:35 AM12/31/12
to
Are there enough data to indicate a minimum?
I seem to recall Bergen stating that one should always bid NT with a
5-card major and 5332 shape having 15-17 HCP.
Bertil
Charles Brenner
Dec 31, 2012, 7:03:17 AM12/31/12
to
On Dec 29, 5:47 pm, Darin Takemoto <dar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <98c4f6e2-e2c4-45b5...@googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In article <98c4f6e2-e2c4-45b5...@googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> vspo...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:06:26 AM UTC-8, Barry Margolin wrote:
> > > In article <50dee982$0$6965$e4fe5...@news2.news.xs4all.nl>,
> > On Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:06:26 AM UTC-8, Barry Margolin wrote:
>
> > > Co Wiersma <W...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> > > > What means W-L-T percent in those statistic?
>
> > > Win-Loss-Tie
>
> > > --
>
> > > Barry Margolin
>
> > > Arlington, MA
>
> > Pavlicek was restricted to posting only
> > the 100 boards with the largest swings.
> > The file size limited him to only 100 boards.
>
> > Open 1S vs. Open 1NT
>
> > Pavlicek posted 100 of the 183 boards in his sample.
> > W-L-T is win, lost, and tie.
>
> > In many of the examples the experts were opening
> > 1NT with 5422. In two boards they open 1NT
> > with 6322.
>
> > A fairer test of 1S vs 1NT would be restricted
> > to only 5332 patterns.
>
> I quickly visually scanned the 100 1S vs. 1NT hands and found 18 hands
> which were not 5332 (3 of which were 6322). In those 18 hands opening
> 1NT beat opening 1S 48-29.
A striking observation. Is your impression that the choice to open 1NT
> > > Co Wiersma <W...@xs4all.nl> wrote:
>
> > > > What means W-L-T percent in those statistic?
>
> > > Win-Loss-Tie
>
> > > --
>
> > > Barry Margolin
>
> > > Arlington, MA
>
> > Pavlicek was restricted to posting only
> > the 100 boards with the largest swings.
> > The file size limited him to only 100 boards.
>
> > Open 1S vs. Open 1NT
>
> > Pavlicek posted 100 of the 183 boards in his sample.
> > W-L-T is win, lost, and tie.
>
> > In many of the examples the experts were opening
> > 1NT with 5422. In two boards they open 1NT
> > with 6322.
>
> > A fairer test of 1S vs 1NT would be restricted
> > to only 5332 patterns.
>
> I quickly visually scanned the 100 1S vs. 1NT hands and found 18 hands
> which were not 5332 (3 of which were 6322). In those 18 hands opening
> 1NT beat opening 1S 48-29.
on 6322 was systemic or judgment? If the latter, it suggests that
judgment for this decision is well worthwhile (i.e. open 1NT with
stoppers and/or weak (or should it be strong?) spade suit), and that
perhaps the poor performance of opening 1NT with five spades is
because most of those openings were made based on blind policy rather
than case-by-case evaluation.
Charles
rhm
Dec 31, 2012, 9:50:38 AM12/31/12
to
What case-by-case evaluation would convince you to open a 6322 spade
hand with 1NT?
Rainer Herrmann
Darin Takemoto
Dec 31, 2012, 3:22:05 PM12/31/12
to
In article
<0956e170-3a69-4c03...@s14g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
Actually in the three 6322 cases the IMP score was 4-1 in favor of
opening 1S. It was in the fifteen 5422 cases that for some reason 1NT
was most favorable (47-25). But I agree with Rainer that these are
extremely small sample sizes to be drawing conclusions. The main point
was that excluding all but the 5332 cases did not materially affect the
result.
Darin
<0956e170-3a69-4c03...@s14g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
opening 1S. It was in the fifteen 5422 cases that for some reason 1NT
was most favorable (47-25). But I agree with Rainer that these are
extremely small sample sizes to be drawing conclusions. The main point
was that excluding all but the 5332 cases did not materially affect the
result.
Darin
Charles Brenner
Dec 31, 2012, 4:36:37 PM12/31/12
to
> <0956e170-3a69-4c03-85b4-3a0c46525...@s14g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
Rainer maybe was reacting to my error. I referred specifically to 6322
because I read your message carelessly. I should have asked my
question about all the 18 cases. I suspect that people don't wantonly
open 1NT on 5242 distribution but rather pick their spots. However, an
IMP spread of 47-25 admittedly doesn't seem very significant and thus
doesn't tell us if the criteria that people use to pick their spots is
really effective or just superstition.
Charles
because I read your message carelessly. I should have asked my
question about all the 18 cases. I suspect that people don't wantonly
open 1NT on 5242 distribution but rather pick their spots. However, an
IMP spread of 47-25 admittedly doesn't seem very significant and thus
doesn't tell us if the criteria that people use to pick their spots is
really effective or just superstition.
Charles
judyo...@gmail.com
Dec 31, 2012, 4:48:57 PM12/31/12
to
765432
KQJ
AQ
KQ
nothing is very good. But slipping the spade 2 into your clubs is certainly not the worst tactic. The worst is pretending one of your kings is a 2. The 2nd worst is jump-rebidding the spades.
Carl
derek
Dec 31, 2012, 7:27:10 PM12/31/12
to
On Monday, December 31, 2012 5:48:57 PM UTC-4, judyo...@verizon.net wrote:
>
> If you are so unlucky as to be dealt
>
> 765432
> KQJ
> AQ
> KQ
>
> nothing is very good. But slipping the spade 2 into your clubs is certainly not the worst tactic. The worst is pretending one of your kings is a 2. The 2nd worst is jump-rebidding the spades.
>
I _don't_ need to slip a spade into my clubs to justify opening 1NT when I have solid stopper in both 2-card suits. But I wouldn't consider jump-rebidding spades here - it's either open 1NT, or open 1S and rebid 2S.
>
> If you are so unlucky as to be dealt
>
> 765432
> KQJ
> AQ
> KQ
>
> nothing is very good. But slipping the spade 2 into your clubs is certainly not the worst tactic. The worst is pretending one of your kings is a 2. The 2nd worst is jump-rebidding the spades.
>
derek
Dec 31, 2012, 7:30:20 PM12/31/12
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On Friday, December 28, 2012 8:34:21 PM UTC-4, smn wrote:
>
> Where I have noticed inferior scores is when the bidding goes 1n-p-p-p and my partner has 6 or 7 hcp vs 1h-2h-p-p-p ,2h making 3. Regards smn
I'd agree - with game-going hands, I believe we do better opening 1N with a five-card major, but I do see _many_ cases where partner passes 1N and would have raised 1M for a good result.
>
> Where I have noticed inferior scores is when the bidding goes 1n-p-p-p and my partner has 6 or 7 hcp vs 1h-2h-p-p-p ,2h making 3. Regards smn
Adam Beneschan
Jan 2, 2013, 1:51:12 PM1/2/13
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-- Adam
france...@googlemail.com
Jan 3, 2013, 4:18:25 AM1/3/13
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On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 6:51:12 PM UTC, Adam Beneschan wrote:
> On Friday, December 28, 2012 5:56:18 AM UTC-8, france...@googlemail.com wrote: > Opening 1H instead of 1NT is a big winner; opening 1S instead of 1NT much less so. One obvious reason why this may be the case is that a 1NT opening prevents a 1S overcall (which makes 1NT more tempting with a doubleton spade). > > > > You mean a 1S response, right? > > No, a 1NT opening prevents a 1S overcall. This can be very useful. Still confused ... if a 1NT opening with five hearts is useful because it prevents a 1S overcall, then why would opening 1H be a big winner as compared to 1NT? -- Adam
Ah, you are the first person to spot the typo in the original post.
> On Friday, December 28, 2012 5:56:18 AM UTC-8, france...@googlemail.com wrote: > Opening 1H instead of 1NT is a big winner; opening 1S instead of 1NT much less so. One obvious reason why this may be the case is that a 1NT opening prevents a 1S overcall (which makes 1NT more tempting with a doubleton spade). > > > > You mean a 1S response, right? > > No, a 1NT opening prevents a 1S overcall. This can be very useful. Still confused ... if a 1NT opening with five hearts is useful because it prevents a 1S overcall, then why would opening 1H be a big winner as compared to 1NT? -- Adam
It's supposed to say opening 1NT instead of 1H is a winner. (Oddly enough other posters seem to have read it the way I intended it rather than do anything boring like actually read what I wrote!)
Paul Hightower
Jan 6, 2013, 1:05:42 PM1/6/13
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"derek" <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote in message
news:4309d77d-008d-44a7...@googlegroups.com...
Or open 1S and rebid 2NT. If partner has zero or one spade or two small all
the side cards are working well and the opps aren't likely to take many
spade tricks. If partner has Ax or Kx the suit may be establishable at
notrump. I suspect this hand evaluates closer to 18 value at notrump than
17.
news:4309d77d-008d-44a7...@googlegroups.com...
the side cards are working well and the opps aren't likely to take many
spade tricks. If partner has Ax or Kx the suit may be establishable at
notrump. I suspect this hand evaluates closer to 18 value at notrump than
17.
Paul Hightower
Jan 6, 2013, 1:28:33 PM1/6/13
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"derek" <de...@pointerstop.ca> wrote in message
news:08876155-4136-4c76...@googlegroups.com...
generally be worth a game try. If so, the comparison is between playing 1NT
and playing 3H, with the former usually safer at IMPs. Playing constructive
raises, of course, responder with 6 or 7 bids 1NT, then 2H, but then he also
does that with only two trumps -- and you'd generally rather be at 1NT or
3NT.
I wonder if a scheme of non-constructive raises (6-8) coupled with a gadget
2C would be worthwhile. 2C would be either a constructive hand (9-12, at
least two of opener's major) or generic game force (no five card suit other
than clubs.) The ACBL won't allow it, of course (the anti-Barry Crane rule),
but does anyone play that sorth of thing elsewhere?
BobPark
Jan 7, 2013, 4:48:32 PM1/7/13
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On Saturday, December 29, 2012 8:47:08 PM UTC-5, Darin Takemoto wrote:
Can anyone contradict this line of thinking?
--Bob Park
S. Needham
Jan 7, 2013, 10:23:25 PM1/7/13
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How can one possibly make any sense of statistics like these when they don't
distinguish between pairs who play 1M-2x-2NT as 12-14 and those who play it
as 15-17/18? My partners and I (for the most part) do the latter, so we have
few problems with our rebids when we open 1M rather than 1NT with a 5-card
major and 15-17 HCP. So I suspect that the success/fail ratio for us when
opening 1M would be better than for those who would have a problem rebidding
with their 15-17 balanced hand.
Can anyone contradict this line of thinking?
I've played this way with weak NTs; with SNTs, I'd much rather use the 2NT
rebid as 12-14 or 18-19, and the jump to 3N as 15-17. Related issue: if 2N
shows extras, then 2M is the catch-all--and "lesser nuanced" partners seem
to have trouble with that structure at the 3 level.
Regards and Happy Trails,
Scott Needham
Boulder, Colorado, USA
BobPark
Jan 11, 2013, 8:11:14 AM1/11/13
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In my view, the statistics cited in this thread lack appropriate definition. Hence they cannot be relied upon...unless they were collected only from cases where a 12-14 range was in use. I have seen no evidence presented that that is the case.
--bp
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