meaning of double of 4NT?
peter seidnitzer
one, otherwise conventions/treatments ?
like Ropi Dopi or Repo Depo wouldn�t make sense. I understand that there are
not so many opportunities to double
4NT because of the danger of having the opps playing in 4NT doubled or
redoubled.
Thanks in advance for any input.
Peter
Richard Pavlicek
> What is the most common usage of a double of 4NT?
Many years ago (over 25) playing with Bill Root, we were
conned when an opponent bluffed Blackwood, when in fact I
wanted to ask for aces. (We were cold for 6H but guessed
wrong to take a mediocre penalty against 6D.) I decided
from then on to play: Double of 4NT is the same as bidding
4NT yourself. Hence, a double of Blackwood is Blackwood.
This also works on one-sided auctions. For instance, if
opponents bid 1H 4NT, a double by us would show a minor
two-suiter.
Alas, it never came up again in 10+ years, so Bill made
me junk it. :)
--
Richard Pavlicek
Web site: http://www.rpbridge.net
Bill Jacobs
@news.albasani.net:
Many, MANY years ago, the great Tim Seres heard partner open 3H, and the
next hand doubled.
With rubbish, but heart support, he bid 4NT, another Blackwood bluff.
Next hand bid 6S, his partner passed (not showing anything in particular),
and RHO, with a big hand including the heart ace, guessed to bid 7S.
Alas opening leader led and cashed an ace.
The opponents, good players, post-mortemed the hand slightly differently to
Bill Root.
They decided that next time this came along, they would PASS 4NT and hear
the response. In this case, the one ace response would have told them what
they needed to know, at least about the grand slam.
And like you, I suspect it hasn't come up again ...
Cheers ... Bill
ment...@googlemail.com
I think a good usage is: I'm betting that you forgot to agree what the
Blackwood responses after Dbl are.
Gerben
Derek Broughton
> On May 27, 1:26 am, "peter seidnitzer" <pseidnit...@aon.at> wrote:
>> What is the most common usage of a double of 4NT. I suppose there must be
>> one, otherwise conventions/treatments ?
>> like Ropi Dopi or Repo Depo wouldn´t make sense. I understand that there
>> are not so many opportunities to double
>> 4NT because of the danger of having the opps playing in 4NT doubled or
>> redoubled.
>
> I think a good usage is: I'm betting that you forgot to agree what the
> Blackwood responses after Dbl are.
LOL. I remember we agreed - but it's also 20 years+ since anybody ever
doubled my 4NT.
--
derek
peter seidnitzer
It was this hand from yesterdays USWBC Playoff that caused my deliberation
of this question.
I think the hand illustrates Gerben's point very well.
AQJ9542
K76
-
AQ8
86 73
QT98 J4
QJ97 K65432
T62 975
KT
A532
AT8
KJ43
E S W N
p 1NT p 4H
p 4S p 5D
X XX p 6S
passout
In the other room they got to 7S without problems.
Peter
"Derek Broughton" <de...@pointerstop.ca> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:ehnve6-...@morgen.pointerstop.ca...
Art Hoffman
"peter seidnitzer" <pseid...@aon.at> wrote in message
news:4a1d46d6$0$2302$91ce...@newsreader02.highway.telekom.at...
> Thanks to all of you for your answers!
> It was this hand from yesterdays USWBC Playoff that caused my deliberation
> of this question.
> I think the hand illustrates Gerben's point very well.
>
> AQJ9542
> K76
> -
> AQ8
>
>
> 86 73
> QT98 J4
> QJ97 K65432
> T62 975
>
>
> KT
> A532
> AT8
> KJ43
>
> E S W N
> p 1NT p 4H
> p 4S p 5D
> X XX p 6S
> passout
> In the other room they got to 7S without problems.
Yes, but I thought they were lucky. There the auction was (with no
opposition bidding):
1NT 4H
4S 4NT
5C* 5NT
6C** 7S
*3014
**KC
Responder was lucky to hear that opener had all three of the missing
controls, and thus able to inquire about the club king. If opener was
missing one of the controls, they might not have gotten to a cold 7S if the
missing control was the DA.
Adam Beneschan
I suppose it could be a lead director, asking partner to lead "no
trump". In other words, lead something else even if the auction seems
to call for a trump lead. P.S. I can't even tell whether I'm making a
serious suggestion or joking.
-- Adam
raija d
<ment...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:d8d7fb11-9575-4363...@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
Gerben
LOL, good one. But this only "works" against advanced or better players who
_have_ agreed but who also know of more than one method and maybe don't
remember which method was agreed with this partner etc. etc. The less than
advanced will ignore the Dbl and bid as if there was a pass.
Chris
> <menta...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
Having read Pavlicek's post about using the double to ask for aces, I
think an agreement that mostly ignores the double is best. If partner
*was* bluffing, the opponents want me to pass or redouble here, so I
should have agreements where pass and redouble are rare. They should
probably be strong suggestions to play 4NTXX and show key card parity.
Christopher Monsour
David Stevenson
With the only partner with whom I had an agreement in this sequence it
asks for the lead of the lowest unbid suit, same as doubling a splinter.
One advantage of this is that while "everyone" plays DOPI and ROPI
they were designed for simple Blackwood, and people do not realise the
difficulty with RKCB. Everyone knows how they play it, of course, and
everyone *knows* that theirs is the only sensible way: what they do not
realise is that partner's 'only sensible way' may not be the same. So
you may get a strange advantage from doubling 4NT.
I bid 4NT in an English trials against Forrester and client. The
client doubled for a club lead, partner bid 5C, and this shows ...
I have discussed this a few times since. About 65% to 70% of people
assume DOPI and ROPI mean nothing of the sort: they assume that
double/redouble means 1 or 4, pass means 0 or 3, next step means 2, next
step means 2+Q. Very logical, but the name is wrong. I now call that
DFPS and RFPS [double/redouble is first step, pass is second step].
About 30% to 35% presume DOPI and ROPI mean what they say, so
double/redouble shows one, pass shows none. With DOPI that is now
confusing, but after a double it seems logical that 5C shows 3, 5D shows
4, 5H shows 2, 5S shows 2+Q.
Anyway, Tony seemed surprised we should bid a slam we knew was going
off!
--
David Stevenson Bridge RTFLB Cats Railways
Liverpool, England, UK Fax: +44 870 055 7697 ICQ: 20039682
<webj...@googlemail.com> bluejak on OKB
Bridgepage: http://blakjak.org/brg_menu.htm
David Stevenson
Not in the ACBL. That has a check mark for DOPI so they will agree to
play that without knowing what it means. Same for ROPI.
In England, yes, no-one has heard of DOPI/ROPI amongst the lesser
players.
Michael Angelo Ravera
If we haven't bid, I like to double 4NT early [like (1H)-P-(4NT)-X] to
show the two lowest unbid suits. If we have bid or later in the
auction, I'm directing a lead of the suit that they have bid, but
probably aren't going to play..