Poll: What do you open?

[jonathan23]

Matchpoints, all vulnerable. You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
in the other suits. RHO deals and passes, you hold:

Kx
AQx
AKQxxx
Kx

What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?

Thanks in advance,

--
- Jon Campbell
Ottawa Canada

[S. Needham]

> Kx
> AQx
> AKQxxx
> Kx
>
> What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?

2C intending 2N rebid. Gotta protect those Ks and would be delighted to
hear a transfer to Hs or initial semi-positive out of partner.

Regards and Happy Trails,

Scott Needham
Boulder, Colorado, USA

[judyorcarl]

Problem with opening 2C is that the best slam chance is diamonds, and
you have little chance of declaring it after that opening. Not to
mention that partner will suppress xxxx of diamonds.

Opening 1D has the problem that no useful rebid is possible.

Carl

[Dave Flower]

Especially if the bidding continues pass pass pass !

Dave Flower

>
> Carl

[Herb]

That sequence implies an even stronger hand in HCP. If you're going to
NT anyway, why not open 2NT (20-21)? Somewhat off-shape, but you can't
have everything.

- Herb

[John R. Mayne]

Nope, it's too strong. 2C looks like the right start to me (I play 2D
positive, 2H negative, 2N=hearts here, but whatever your system, 2C
almost has to be better than 2N on this moose.)

I'm more worried about being overstrength for this sequence than
understrength.I play a 20-bad22 2N opening, and I would open this 2C
easily.

--JRM



>   - Herb

[Nick France]

I'm going to open 1D. I agree its too good for a 2NT opener. Not
opposed to opening it 2C followed by 2NT but that just isn't my style.

Nick France

[OldPalooka]

On Nov 25, 7:00 am, jonathan23 <campb...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

2C. I like to play that a 3NT rebid shows a good long suit and about
9 tricks and use Kokish for 26 balanced, so we still have an outside
chance for 6D. Not counting the six card suit for something good and
downgrading to 2NT or 1D [unless Fantunes] leaves me cold.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

jonathan23 skrev:

> Matchpoints, all vulnerable. You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> in the other suits. RHO deals and passes, you hold:

> Kx
> AQx
> AKQxxx
> Kx

> What do you open?

2C. Partner relays 2D after which I bid 3D showing a hand with 6+
diamonds and 8+ playing tricks.

> Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?

No.

--
Bertel, Denmark
http://bridge.lundhansen.dk/

[tivojohn]

On Nov 25, 9:33 am, Bertel Lund Hansen

A possible drawback to this approach occurs in partnerships in which
2D is waiting and does not show or deny any values. In that case,
what should responder rebid after 2C-2D-3D with very poor values and
no fit or long suit?

When this came up earlier this year, my expert partner and teammates
all said that 3N as a "double negative" was the normal bid without
special agreements. That seemed plausible to me. Note: I usually
play 2H as an immediate double negative so I have not studied this
aspect extensively.

-- John

[Fred.]

I'm usually an appologist for opening the minor,
but, this time, 2C at IMP or MP scoring.

Slam is not very likely lacking a positive
response so I am comfortable rebidding 2NT over 2D.
The playing strength is there. Partner _could_
raise to 6NT off 2 aces, but would need every other
missing K, Q or J in the deck to do it. Over a
positive response, I will happily make a slight
overbid of 3D rather than bury the diamond suit.

Contenders are 2NT which will almost always bury the
diamond suit, and is an underbid with the strong
6-car suit, and 1D which leaves no adequate rebid on
most sequences.

Fred.

[Co Wiersma]

Op 25-11-2011 20:52, tivojohn schreef:

I think that approach is rather new? At least it is to me.

Co Wiersma

[John Hall]

In article
<1ee52634-16cc-4374...@d17g2000yql.googlegroups.com>,

jonathan23 <camp...@yahoo.ca> writes:
>Matchpoints, all vulnerable. You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
>majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
>in the other suits. RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
>Kx
>AQx
>AKQxxx
>Kx
>
>What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?
>
>Thanks in advance,

There's a case to be made for both 2NT and 2C, but I think that I would
do the obvious thing and open 1D. But I'm not very familiar with your
bidding style, normally playing Acol or Benjaminised Acol, in which I
wouldn't have this problem.
--
John Hall
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism
by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw

[judyorcarl]

Trust partner not to pass with an ace.

But that still leaves you nowhere.

Carl

Carl

[judyorcarl]

A common agreement.

But it means you dare not bid 2C then 3D unless the hand is so
gigantic that there is good play for 3NT from the yarborough side.

Carl

[jonathan23]

On Nov 25, 10:00 am, jonathan23 <campb...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Matchpoints, all vulnerable.  You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> in the other suits.  RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
> Kx
> AQx
> AKQxxx
> Kx
>
> What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?
>

This one produced a bit of a blizzard of numbers last night at the
club. Of 6 times the board was played (Howell), 5 different scores
were generated ranging from 130 to 800 for the side holding the
specimen hand. There were three diamond partials (contracted levels
varying), one diamond game, and two penalties of opposing contracts.

I had it one round and underbid it with 2NT. I do agree in hindsight
that 2NT understates the power of this hand and would more likely
hinder our side reaching a high contract should that be the thing to
do. But the damnedest thing [to me, anyway] was that at our table the
auction went...

(P) 2NT (P) P
(3S) P* (P) X**
(P) P (P)***

* I wasn't sure what would happen here, if I doubled would partner (a
new partner but one who seemed to know his business) take me out to
clubs? Anyway, I passed, thinking "well, at least we should go plus".

** I didn't know what my partner was up to, but I think he had a
couple of picture cards and doubled on what he reckoned to be very bad
bidding by the overcaller.

*** The 3S bidder looked miserable when the double stood and she
realized she had to play it. Dummy came down with a balanced shape,
four small spades, and not much else. We managed to get 500 in the
end. Oh, well, next time...

[tivojohn]

Playing matchpoints in most partnerships, I open 2C.

The hand is clearly worth more than 20-21 points. An opening bid of
1D or 2N could be costly when partner passes with only the heart K or
a couple queens. This approach makes sure that we will not miss game
when it is laydown.

In most partnerships, I plan to rebid 2N after a 2D response
regardless of whether partner shows values. I think that 2C-2D-3D
creates the risk of wrongsiding 3N or going past it when partner's
rebid is awkward. The 2N rebid also makes it easy to find a possible
H fit.

Some days the wimps win on this one, especially if the Ds do not
behave. At the other result extreme, the strong club openers seem to
have an edge on this hand in finding a possible D slam.

Playing IMPs with my preferred methods, I would be tempted to open 1D,
planning to rebid 2C (artificial one round force patterned after
Cole). This provides a possible system edge as compared with common
methods. Despite playing light responses to a minor opener, I might
still be passed when a vul game is on, so this is a marginal choice.

-- john

[boblipton]

2NT. I certainly sympathize with those who open this 2C intending to
rebid 2NT.

Bob

[Herb]

On 11/25/2011 9:33 AM, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> jonathan23 skrev:
>
>> Matchpoints, all vulnerable. You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
>> majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
>> in the other suits. RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
>> Kx
>> AQx
>> AKQxxx
>> Kx
>
>> What do you open?
>
> 2C. Partner relays 2D after which I bid 3D showing a hand with 6+
> diamonds and 8+ playing tricks.
>
>> Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?
>
> No.
>

Do you REALLY want to force partner to be declarer in a potential
diamond contract, with your kings being led through?

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Herb skrev:

>>> What do you open?

>> 2C. Partner relays 2D after which I bid 3D showing a hand with 6+
>> diamonds and 8+ playing tricks.

> Do you REALLY want to force partner to be declarer in a potential
> diamond contract, with your kings being led through?

When I have agreed a system, I am aware that not all hands and
boards fit the system. I trust that a sensible system will win in
the long run.

If I open 2NT, partner might respond 3D. And if I open 1D, he
might pass.

On this hand the 3D (promising 5 hearts) might not be so bad, but
a similar hand with two small hearts would not be very nice.

[Michael Angelo Ravera]

On Friday, November 25, 2011 7:00:09 AM UTC-8, jonathan23 wrote:
> Matchpoints, all vulnerable. You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> in the other suits. RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
> Kx
> AQx
> AKQxxx
> Kx
>
> What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?

Playing your system, It's too strong (by almost a king, I'd say) to open 2NT, so I pick 2C. With most of my partners a 2D response shows a hand that can't promise 2 tricks, so 6D won't be a laydown on a 2D response. I will likely choose a 2NT rebid after 2D. It looks like a fast 8 tricks and then looking for help on a non-diamond lead opposite a bust. A black queen gives you a fairly easy nine tricks. A black ace or the HK (with which partner will likely raise you to 3NT) makes an easy 9.

[Will in New Haven]

On Nov 25, 10:00 am, jonathan23 <campb...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Matchpoints, all vulnerable.  You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> in the other suits.  RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
> Kx
> AQx
> AKQxxx
> Kx
>
> What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?

I treat it as a balanced 23-24 and open 2C. I rebid 2NT unless partner
makes a positive response. I don't like opening 2C on a minor-suit
hand or really any unbalanced hand but I think of this as mostly a NT
hand.

--
Will in New Haven

[Eric Leong]

On Friday, November 25, 2011 7:00:09 AM UTC-8, jonathan23 wrote:

In KS (Kaplan Sheinwold system) this is a perfect 3NT bid.

Eric Leong

[Dave Flower]

On Nov 25, 11:11 pm, Michael Angelo Ravera <marav...@prodigy.net>
wrote:

A black queen at trick one gives you a fairly easy eight tricks, but
black queens at tricks one and two are not so good.

Dave Flower

[Paul Hightower]

"jonathan23" <camp...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:1ee52634-16cc-4374...@d17g2000yql.googlegroups.com...

> Matchpoints, all vulnerable. You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> in the other suits. RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
> Kx
> AQx
> AKQxxx
> Kx
>
> What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?
>

Too strong for a 20-21 2NT, so I'll open 2C and expect to rebid 2NT,
treating as a balanced 22. But I may choose to show the diamonds over a
slam-positive response.

[Paul Hightower]

"Michael Angelo Ravera" <mara...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:25452765.357.1322262691598.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prmr38...

On Friday, November 25, 2011 7:00:09 AM UTC-8, jonathan23 wrote:
> Matchpoints, all vulnerable. You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> in the other suits. RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
> Kx
> AQx
> AKQxxx
> Kx
>
> What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?

Playing your system, It's too strong (by almost a king, I'd say) to open

2NT...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've seen good evdeince that a six-card suit at notrump is worth only a
point or so, definetely not 3. A five card suit is worth a surprisingly
small 0.4 points, according to a study of real-life results by the French
Bridge Federation.

Apparently, at notrump, stoppers are more critical than having a source of
tricks, and trying to make game with inadequate high cards just leaves you
short on stoppers most of the time. It's easy to construct obvious
exceptions, and sometimes you can bid those such as after a weak two opening
or a Gambling 3NT, but on balance it's best not to overbid notrump hands
based on long suits. However, those who treat this as a balanced 21 are
certainly underbidding IMO.

Here I expect to have 8 tricks on any lead but an unlikely diamond; partner
will raise my 2C-2x; 2NT sequence with an Ace or King, obviously, and game
will be easy. He might pass an opening 2NT bid with only 3 or 4 points. Game
may be a challenge opposite a random Q+J, but a lead from the Ace toward
either of my Kings where partner has Qxx may be enough. All in all I think
I'll make game much more often than not opposite 3 hcp, hence 2C opening. On
the other hand I'll have little play if partner passes my 2NT rebid, so no
reason to make a stronger rebid. One to one-and-half points for the diamond
suit looks about right.

[EZ]

On Nov 25, 10:00 am, jonathan23 <campb...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Matchpoints, all vulnerable.  You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> in the other suits.  RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
> Kx
> AQx
> AKQxxx
> Kx
>
> What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?
>

> Thanks in advance,
>
> --
> - Jon Campbell
> Ottawa Canada

This isn't a good hand for standard methods -- unless you're in a pro-
am partnership and put it on a NT track immediately -- so I'd guess
like everyone else, probably opening 2C and planning to rebid 2N
(which still might be an underbid) over 2!D, but 3!D over any other
(natural) response.

But I'm lucky with these hands, since 90 percent of sessions I play
with serious partners use either a big Club system or Kaplan-Sheinwold
methods. In the former, simply open 1C which should allow you to get
both your long suit and trick-taking potential into the auction at a
reasonable level.

With KS, I simply open 1D (and may play there missing a game once in a
blue moon) and rebid 3D, which is forcing in KS, a hand where I would
have seriously considered opening 2C and rebidding my suit if it were
a major.

My two cents

EZ

[KWSchneider]

On Nov 25, 10:00 am, jonathan23 <campb...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> Matchpoints, all vulnerable.  You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> in the other suits.  RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
> Kx
> AQx
> AKQxxx
> Kx
>
> What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> --
> - Jon Campbell
> Ottawa Canada

2C followed by 2N...
Diamonds are only the trump suit if partner has shortness and 3+
diamonds - unlikely in this scenario.

Kurt

[KWSchneider]

On Nov 27, 1:29 pm, "Paul Hightower" <paulhigh@dont_email.net> wrote:
> "Michael Angelo Ravera" <marav...@prodigy.net> wrote in messagenews:25452765.357.1322262691598.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prmr38...

>
> On Friday, November 25, 2011 7:00:09 AM UTC-8, jonathan23 wrote:
> > Matchpoints, all vulnerable.  You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
> > majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
> > in the other suits.  RHO deals and passes, you hold:
>
> > Kx
> > AQx
> > AKQxxx
> > Kx
>
> > What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?
>
> Playing your system, It's too strong (by almost a king, I'd say) to open
> 2NT...

> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­----

>
> I've seen good evdeince that a six-card suit at notrump is worth only a
> point or so, definetely not 3. A five card suit is worth a surprisingly
> small 0.4 points, according to a study of real-life results by the French
> Bridge Federation.
>
> Apparently, at notrump, stoppers are more critical than having a source of
> tricks, and trying to make game with inadequate high cards just leaves you
> short on stoppers most of the time. It's easy to construct obvious
> exceptions, and sometimes you can bid those such as after a weak two opening
> or a Gambling 3NT, but on balance it's best not to overbid notrump hands
> based on long suits. However, those who treat this as a balanced 21 are
> certainly underbidding IMO.
>
> Here I expect to have 8 tricks on any lead but an unlikely diamond; partner
> will raise my 2C-2x; 2NT sequence with an Ace or King, obviously, and game
> will be easy. He might pass an opening 2NT bid with only 3 or 4 points. Game
> may be a challenge opposite a random Q+J, but a lead from the Ace toward
> either of my Kings where partner has Qxx may be enough. All in all I think
> I'll make game much more often than not opposite 3 hcp, hence 2C opening. On
> the other hand I'll have little play if partner passes my 2NT rebid, so no
> reason to make a stronger rebid. One to one-and-half points for the diamond
> suit looks about right.

Logic dictates that "this" trump suit [AKQxxx] is worth much more than
a mere 6th card adjustment. The suit is expected to break 322 around
the table, hence this suit is 6 tricks [15 points - ie a 6 point
adjustment]. 1-1.5 points is an atrocious understatement of value.

Kurt

[Lorne]

"Herb" wrote in message
news:a6Pzq.140467$sP1....@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...

........................................

So what do you open with:
Kxx
AQx
AKQx
Kxx

which is about 2 tricks weaker than the hand shown and a normal 2N bid?

As far as I can see the hand may even be too strong to open 2C and rebid 2N.
It has 3 losers and a good 6 card suit and good controls.

[Lorne]

"jonathan23" wrote in message
news:1ee52634-16cc-4374...@d17g2000yql.googlegroups.com...

Matchpoints, all vulnerable. You are playing pretty basic 2/1, 5-card
majors, 15-17 1NT, 20-21 2NT, artificial forcing 2C opener and weak 2s
in the other suits. RHO deals and passes, you hold:

Kx
AQx
AKQxxx
Kx

What do you open? Do you make a choice from multiple contenders?

........................

I would open 2C and rebid 3N over 2D. However I play Kokish so this shows
exactly this hand - strong, reasonably balanced with a good source of tricks
in a minor.

[Adam Beneschan]

On Nov 28, 12:38 pm, "Lorne" <lorne_ander...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Herb"  wrote in message
>
> news:a6Pzq.140467$sP1....@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...
>
> On 11/25/2011 7:24 AM, S. Needham wrote:
>
> >> Kx
> >> AQx
> >> AKQxxx
> >> Kx

> As far as I can see the hand may even be too strong to open 2C and rebid 2N.
> It has 3 losers and a good 6 card suit and good controls.

Maybe. But if partner has a king or two queens he'll raise my 2NT to
3; and if he doesn't I probably won't make 3NT (they'll lead the black
suit in which partner has nothing, leaving me with eight top tricks).
Yes, partner could have moderate length and secondary honors in both
black suits. But I think 3NT is likely to be a bad contract if
partner can't move over 2C-negative-2NT. If he starts making any slam
noise, however, I can upgrade later. I suppose the worst case is if
it goes 2C-something-2NT-3NT and we make slam even though partner
doesn't quite have a slam invite. (If it does start like that, would
anyone take another bid over 3NT? 2C-2D-2NT-3NT-4D would definitely
be an unexpected auction, but maybe it should show this hand.)

-- Adam