Negative double reopening sequences
S. Needham
I learned to play in a WNT system, so never had problems with reopening in
NegX (penalty pass) sequences. Since 95% of my partners now want to play
SNTs (poor, benighted souls), it has come to my attention that there is a
real difference of opinion regarding what kinds of hands reopen, playing
negative doubles, after something like
1C-2S-P-P
??
There is also a corollary difference of opinion as to what one does in third
seat on that type auction with
AQJx
KTxxx
Qx
Kx
or
QJTx
KTxxx
Qx
Kx.
So how do folks play?
Regards and Happy Trails,
Scott Needham
Boulder, Colorado, USA
Adam Beneschan
> There is also a corollary difference of opinion as to what one does in third
> seat on that type auction [1C-2S-?] with
>
> AQJx
> KTxxx
> Qx
> Kx
>
> or
>
> QJTx
> KTxxx
> Qx
> Kx.
Personally, I think a negative double is totally acceptable with
either hand, but you could pass and try for a penalty. Which one is a
judgement call and is going to depend on the form of scoring,
vulnerability, and whether the player on my right looks like a fairly
solid citizen or like someone who likes to throw monkey wrenches into
the auction and risk an occasional -1100. So for me, this isn't a
question of "how I play", but rather what I think will work at the
time.
-- Adam
Jim Greer
no difference in reopening methodology between SNT and WNT. If one is short
in the enemy suit, and has adequate defensive structure, one reopens with a
double.
--
Jim Greer
Home: (203) 966-9469
Cell: (203) 979-6236
"S. Needham" <jsn_co...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Amjcn.24506$aU4...@newsfe13.iad...
Andrew
> On Feb 9, 12:14 pm, "S. Needham" <jsn_color...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> > There is also a corollary difference of opinion as to what one does in third
> > seat on that type auction [1C-2S-?] with
>
> > AQJx
> > KTxxx
> > Qx
> > Kx
>
> > or
>
> > QJTx
> > KTxxx
> > Qx
> > Kx.
>
> Personally, I think a negative double is totally acceptable with
> either hand, but you could pass and try for a penalty.
You need some balls to pass on the first hand where game your way is
certain. You'd hate to defend 2S undoubled when partner has a 3-4-2-4
13 count.
On the second hand, pass is much more reasonable. If partner can not
balance, game probably will not make.
Andrew
boblipton
These are the poster hjands for Flannery. Yes, I know you hate
Flannery. Me, I hate 2D waiting.
Bob
S. Needham
|13 count.
Getting to the first point I had hoped to raise:
Does this perhaps imply you would reopen with 2-4-3-4 and 13 HCP?
Or do you require extras of some kind, either true take out shape with 13ish
or 15ish with the balanced hand?
One very successful pair in our area will reopen virtually any good minimum
("80% reopen") on this auction; one of the District's best players would
require extras of some variety, and would eschew the penalty with the better
of the last two hands I gave ('negXs are primarily constructive, take your
games'), but might penalty pass with the second.
Andrew
> |You'd hate to defend 2S undoubled when partner has a 3-4-2-4
> |13 count.
>
> Getting to the first point I had hoped to raise:
>
> Does this perhaps imply you would reopen with 2-4-3-4 and 13 HCP?
> Or do you require extras of some kind, either true take out shape with 13ish
> or 15ish with the balanced hand?
Depends on the vul conditions and form of scoring. I reopen most
aggressively NV on NV at MPs and least aggressively vul on vul at
IMPs. Normally I want either a stiff spade or a little extra to
reopen, but at the most favorable conditions 2-4-3-4 13 is enough.
A.
Will in New Haven
> Folk:
>
> I learned to play in a WNT system, so never had problems with reopening in
> NegX (penalty pass) sequences. Since 95% of my partners now want to play
> SNTs (poor, benighted souls), it has come to my attention that there is a
> real difference of opinion regarding what kinds of hands reopen, playing
> negative doubles, after something like
>
> 1C-2S-P-P
> ??
>
> There is also a corollary difference of opinion as to what one does in third
> seat on that type auction with
>
> AQJx
> KTxxx
> Qx
> Kx
>
> or
>
> QJTx
> KTxxx
> Qx
> Kx.
>
> So how do folks play?
I play Weak NT with most partners but in all cases I play penalty
doubles by direct seat hands. So these hands are trivially easy.
Passing and looking for a penalty against adventurous players is very
dangerous because partner will have three trumps and fail to reopen
entirely too often. So you defend a six-card fit, which is good, but
you defend it undboubled when you have a game, which is bad.
I do think opener should reopen with a Double on a hand with good
quick tricks and support for the unbid suits, short in overcaller's
suit, but it is much more to get partner to compete than to cater to
the penalty pass. This is the same as after a suit bid, really. The
reopening double was not invented to cater to partner's penalty pass.
It is primarily a device to get partner to compete when they have
chosen a good trump suit for them.
--
Will in New Haven
Will in New Haven
Flannery responses to 1NT when the opponent has overcalled are very
advanced methods.
alvin
Scott:
> it has come to my attention that there is a real difference of opinion regarding
> what kinds of hands reopen, playing negative doubles, after something like
> 1C-2S-P-P
> ??
Playing either WNT or SNT, opener cannot rationally expect his partner
to have passed with your 11 count hand, much less with your 15 count
hand. Nor would responder choose a negative double (unless playing a
unique style such as negative free bids). With either hand, I weould
expect most responders to bid 2H (as a one-round force) and give up on
trying to penalize overcaller. Only if opener's side were NV, and
overcaller's were V, would a different decision be considered - even
so, it is not liklely to be made.
Having said that, let us assume that responder's pass shows a more
normal hand, either weaker (not able to make a negative double) or
typed against spades. Playing SNT, opener could hold a minimum 12-14.
When he does, he should pass.
Playing WNT, opener could hold a stonger NT hand. With all such hands,
as well as all hands with good playing strength, he should double,
allowing responder to spring the trap and pass.
In the 1963 K-S System book, the authors give this hand for opener's
reopening double in your auction:
S Jx
H AQxx
D Kxx
C AQxx
Yes, a game is possible opposite many responder's hands - even a slam
in hearts opposite your first one (see below). The score for defeating
1S opposite hands with the values you cite will usually exceed the
value of the game, but will not usually exceed the value of your
slam.
How many tricks do you think the overcaller can make when opener holds
the K-S hand and responder holds your:
> AQTx
> KTxxx
> Qx
> Kx ?
{I changed one card to eliminate duplication.]
Two? Three maybe?
Yes, of course, the bigger is responder's hand, the bigger will be the
penalty, as well as the likelihood of manking game or slam. That, in
fact is the problem. You are odds-on for 6H. That is why the hand is
too big for responder to trap. Well to trap when you can make game,
but not when you can make slam - even if you are NV, you will make
+980, and need to hold NV oppos to two tricks and vul oppos to three
(-1100.in both cases). Under all other vuls, this is not worth the
effort. Just go after your own contract.
Alvin P. Bluthman
apblu...@aol.com
S. Needham
news:82efa594-e569-41fb...@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 9, 3:14?pm, "S. Needham" <jsn_color...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Folk:
>
> I learned to play in a WNT system, so never had problems with reopening in
Scott:
> 1C-2S-P-P
> ??
Two? Three maybe?
Alvin P. Bluthman
apblu...@aol.com
***************************************************
This meshes well with my (K-S) approach to both the reopening action and the
third-seat decisions. It's the SNT decisions that are perplexing, both as
reopener and as third-seat. I really don't get how a SNT pair can
reasonably decide to reopen with a double on 80% of the good minimum
balanced hands--the deciding factor being the number of cards held in the
jump-overcalled suit--when the first consideration should be three-level
safety in case (re)opener's RHO is the one with the stuff, a hand with a
stiff small S and 12-14 or so HCP.
Eric Leong
> Folk:
>
> I learned to play in a WNT system, so never had problems with reopening in
> NegX (penalty pass) sequences. Since 95% of my partners now want to play
> SNTs (poor, benighted souls), it has come to my attention that there is a
> real difference of opinion regarding what kinds of hands reopen, playing
> negative doubles, after something like
>
> 1C-2S-P-P
> ??
Playing weak notrump you know partner has either a SNT or an
unbalanced hand.
So you know partner is most likely going to reopen if he does not
have a SNT.
Eric Leong
Barry Margolin
<82efa594-e569-41fb...@z17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>,
alvin <apblu...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Feb 9, 3:14?pm, "S. Needham" <jsn_color...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Folk:
> >
> > I learned to play in a WNT system, so never had problems with reopening in
> > NegX (penalty pass) sequences. ?Since 95% of my partners now want to play
2S is an insufficient bid, isn't it? Did you miss the jump overcall?
I certainly wouldn't have a problem bidding 3H with the first hand. The
second hand is borderline, expectially with a concentration of values in
the opponent's suit.
--
Barry Margolin, bar...@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***
Gordon Rainsford
Partner has opened the bidding. RHO has made a Jump Overcall. And you
want to use Flannery. Surely you haven't misread the question, Bob?
S. Needham
| Playing weak notrump you know partner has either a SNT or an
| unbalanced hand. So you know partner is most likely going to reopen
| if he does not have a SNT.
What is your preference if We play SNT? What kinds of hands should/should
not reopen?
Holding pretty much any balanced min, isn't reopening 80% a crap shoot?
alvin
Scott:
If opener has a minimum balanced hand, and the overcqller has bid 1S,
opener should pass and take his plus. There will be no game opposite
his hand, because responder would not trap pass with handsd as strong
as you gave him. A decent nine or ten (with fewer than four hearts)
would be the limit for an initial pass by responder when not trapping.
More particularly, responder would never have passed with the two
hands you gave him, holding heart length especially.
When overcaller bids 2S instead, responder's pass might be stronger
than nine or ten, because he is less certain of going plus at the
three-level (and his bids in either red suit are focing in any event.)
My point is still that the hands you gave responder for passes are too
strong, especially as they incluce a heart suit - I might pass an
eleven count if its main suit were diamonds. (And negative free bids
are never used after the opponent makes a weak jump overcall). Still,
with a minimum balanced hand, opener should pass, not fearing having
missed game.
When holding a stronger hand (which might be strong because of a spade
shortage, or extra high card points), opener can reopen with a double
after either a 1S or a 2S call, allowing responder to pass when he is
trapping.
And, yes, I misread the problem (thinking that overcaller bid 1S).
This would allow the opening side to take as much as 1400 - still less
than the heart slam possible with the stronger of your hands, even
vulnerabvle. When slam is possible (because responder might pass a
strong jump shift)), this is a tougher problem - which is a reason why
responder should not pass. So, go after your slam at matchpoints
(because +1430 beats +1400 or + 1100), and defend at IMPs (because
there is little difference between +1430 and +1400, and your
"neverslip" bidding system might, somehow, lanfd you in game instead.
Alvin P. Bluthman
apblu...@aol.com