south opens 1D; does west bid 2D

[nospam]

I recently had this hand as west

spades : 7 6 5 3 2
hearts :
diamonds : A K 10 8 5 4
clubs : 6 4

and south (dealer) opened 1D. Assuming 2D is a natural bid (not
Michaels), is 2D a reasonable bid by west?

[HoneyMonster]

You haven't mentioned the form of scoring, the vulnerability or the
opponents' style. But yes, 2D seems reasonable, since it is quite likely
that opponents will bid and raise Hearts.

[nospam]

Thanks. Duplicate scoring. E/W vulnerable. Opponents competitive.

[Charles Brenner]

Not terrible, but I wouldn't do it, not when vulnerable anyway. The
suit is ok for the action but marginally so -- this is the least
partner will expect. Diamonds plays great if we have a great fit, but
how likely is that? There are two kinds of fit: short spades and trump
length opposite, or spade length. The trump length opposite is very
unlikely. The spade fit opposite gains mainly if we reach spades, and
since I can't make a subsequent free bid after this weak an initial 2D
action, bidding 2D doesn't look to me to have the advantage of getting
both suits into the picture. Further, if partner is the one who
competes in hearts I won't be comfortable.

In summary, 2D isn't likely to help us compete. Therefore I judge that
more good things can happen if I pass.

Charles

[Stu Goodgold]

2D vul vs not at matchpts is exceedingly risky. If North has a decent hand and South has a real diamond suit for 1D, you are likely to play it doubled down 1, 2 or even more. If they find a heart fit, the suit is not going to be breaking kindly. I would just keep quiet and let them find the extreme distribution by surprise instead of advertising it.

-Stu Goodgold
San Jose, CA

[Dave Flower]

It would help to know how many diamonds the 1D bid promises.

I agree with you to a certain extent,l but if, as seems likely,
partner is on lead against a heart contract, you would welcome a
diamond lead. Holding 4H to ten tricks when the field is making 11
seems more likely than being penalised for a bottom in 2D* and its
match-points.

Dave Flower

[John Hall]

In article <grsri793naf7gk59l...@4ax.com>,

Assuming that 1D was natural, then I'd pass. This hand could well be a
horrible misfit for both sides. Also I'd be worried that partner
wouldn't take 2D as natural, unless we had specifically discussed it.
Even if we don't play Michaels, 2D might be taken as an old-fashioned
artificial forcing take-out on a hand unsuitable for a take-out double.
--
John Hall
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism
by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw

[Nick Wedd]

On 05/02/2012 10:35, John Hall wrote:
> In article<grsri793naf7gk59l...@4ax.com>,
> nospam<nos...@nospam.nospam> writes:
>> I recently had this hand as west
>>
>> spades : 7 6 5 3 2
>> hearts :
>> diamonds : A K 10 8 5 4
>> clubs : 6 4
>>
>> and south (dealer) opened 1D. Assuming 2D is a natural bid (not
>> Michaels), is 2D a reasonable bid by west?
>
> Assuming that 1D was natural, then I'd pass. This hand could well be a
> horrible misfit for both sides. Also I'd be worried that partner
> wouldn't take 2D as natural, unless we had specifically discussed it.
> Even if we don't play Michaels, 2D might be taken as an old-fashioned
> artificial forcing take-out on a hand unsuitable for a take-out double.

Even if I am sure partner will take 2D as natural, I will pass. It's
likely that NS will end up in some heart contract: better to keep the
diamond distribution as a surprise for them, rather than warn them now.

Nick

[nospam]

On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 10:35:29 +0000, John Hall
<nospam...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <grsri793naf7gk59l...@4ax.com>,
> nospam <nos...@nospam.nospam> writes:
>>I recently had this hand as west
>>
>>spades : 7 6 5 3 2
>>hearts :
>>diamonds : A K 10 8 5 4
>>clubs : 6 4
>>
>>and south (dealer) opened 1D. Assuming 2D is a natural bid (not
>>Michaels), is 2D a reasonable bid by west?
>
>Assuming that 1D was natural, then I'd pass. This hand could well be a
>horrible misfit for both sides. Also I'd be worried that partner
>wouldn't take 2D as natural, unless we had specifically discussed it.
>Even if we don't play Michaels, 2D might be taken as an old-fashioned
>artificial forcing take-out on a hand unsuitable for a take-out double.

Ok. I did bid 2D. North passed (6 points, 5 hearts and 5 clubs). My
partner didn't know what my bid meant but she bid 2 spades as she had
13 points, 5 good spades and singleton diamond. South passed, I bid
3S, west bid 4S, south passed, north then bid 4NT (asking south to
bid). South bid 5 clubs and they went 3 light doubled. We didn't get
a great board because several pairs were allowed to play in 4S making.
North south could have made 4 hearts so my 2D bid kept them from
finding their heart fit. I figured my diamonds were good for 5 tricks
because I can keep leading spades and ruffing the return and if my
partner's weak North's going to bid.

[John Hall]

In article <m3osi71gjvu0jug0g...@4ax.com>,

nospam <nos...@nospam.nospam> writes:
>On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 10:35:29 +0000, John Hall
><nospam...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In article <grsri793naf7gk59l...@4ax.com>,
>> nospam <nos...@nospam.nospam> writes:
>>>I recently had this hand as west
>>>
>>>spades : 7 6 5 3 2
>>>hearts :
>>>diamonds : A K 10 8 5 4
>>>clubs : 6 4
>>>
>>>and south (dealer) opened 1D. Assuming 2D is a natural bid (not
>>>Michaels), is 2D a reasonable bid by west?
>>
>>Assuming that 1D was natural, then I'd pass. This hand could well be a
>>horrible misfit for both sides. Also I'd be worried that partner
>>wouldn't take 2D as natural, unless we had specifically discussed it.
>>Even if we don't play Michaels, 2D might be taken as an old-fashioned
>>artificial forcing take-out on a hand unsuitable for a take-out double.
>
>Ok. I did bid 2D. North passed (6 points, 5 hearts and 5 clubs). My
>partner didn't know what my bid meant but she bid 2 spades as she had
>13 points, 5 good spades and singleton diamond. South passed, I bid
>3S, west bid 4S, south passed, north then bid 4NT (asking south to
>bid).

To not bid over 2D (presumably North felt he/she was slightly too weak
for a negative double) and come in at this stage is very risky.

> South bid 5 clubs and they went 3 light doubled.

If North's 4NT showed length in the unbid suits then it sounds as though
South should have bid 5H. (I take it that South had more hearts than
clubs, since you say that 4H would make.)

> We didn't get
>a great board because several pairs were allowed to play in 4S making.
>North south could have made 4 hearts so my 2D bid kept them from
>finding their heart fit. I figured my diamonds were good for 5 tricks
>because I can keep leading spades and ruffing the return and if my
>partner's weak North's going to bid.

It worked out pretty well for you, but you were lucky to find partner
with a spade fit. Swap North's hand with East's, and it could have been
pretty horrible. Had you passed, the auction would probably have begun:

1D NB 1H 1S

After that, NS will probably bid to 4H, which you say would make, but
you should bid 4S, also making. It then will depend on whether they save
in 5H (what was the vulnerability?) and whether your side can bid and
make 5S.

[Thomas Dehn]

No. Not good enough. Besides, the hand
might have lots of bad splits. Just be happy
to let them bid their normal contract.


Thomas

[nospam]

On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 11:31:28 +0000, John Hall

East west vulnerable

I guess we could make 5S unless south leads a diamond but I don't
think we'd bid it.


West

spades : 7 6 5 3 2
hearts :
diamonds : A K 10 8 5 4
clubs : 6 4

North
spades : A 10
hearts : Q 10 9 5 2
diamonds : 7
clubs : 10 9 5 3 2

East
spades : K Q 9 8 4
hearts : A J 4 3
diamonds : 6
clubs : K 8 7

South
spades : J
hearts : K 8 7 6
diamonds : Q J 9 3 2
clubs : A Q J

[Charles Brenner]

On Feb 5, 3:51 am, nospam <nos...@nospam.nospam> wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 11:31:28 +0000, John Hall
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> <nospam_no...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
> >In article <m3osi71gjvu0jug0g5n9378l781roft...@4ax.com>,

> > nospam <nos...@nospam.nospam> writes:
> >>On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 10:35:29 +0000, John Hall

> >><nospam_no...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>>In article <grsri793naf7gk59lpfskte5e9tokkb...@4ax.com>,

I'm too lazy to completely reformat (by switching to fixed font), but
here's a start. Experienced players are used to this kind of layout
and can take in the hand very easily if you oblige them.
A 10

Q 10 9 5 2

7

10 9 5 3 2

> 7 6 5 3 2 K Q 9 8 4
> A J 4 3
> A K 10 8 5 4 6
> 6 4 K 8 7

> spades : J
> hearts : K 8 7 6
> diamonds : Q J 9 3 2
> clubs : A Q J

The easiest defense to beat 5S by East is a trump lead and club back.

If South leads a diamond I think you might make 5S. Win, ruff small
diamond, cash heart ace, then lead trump K. Now they can't stop you
from establishing the diamonds, pulling trumps, and cashing the
diamonds. Of course North could do better at trick 2 but some would
miss the play.

Bidding: If it begins
(1D) pass (1H) 1S
then West is worth 5S by some measure (the losing trick count), so
some tables might bid on even over 5H and maybe make. I agree that NS
are worth bidding 4H, but on the bad trump break I don't see offhand
how they make it against good defense.

Charles

[Co Wiersma]

Op 5-2-2012 4:16, nospam schreef:

seems fine to me

Co Wiersma

[Eric Leong]

Only if you have an agreement with partner.
And if you have an agreement, only if partner would consider bidding 2D as a reasonable choice.


Eric Leong

[Will in New Haven]

It is ok if you play simple overcalls fairly light. If partner would
expect something like this from an overcall of 2C over 1D, for
instance if you reversed the minors, the fact that your suit is
Diamonds wouldn't change things _a lot_

I would not do it but we play our overcalls, especially at the two-
level, as rather strong.

--
Will in New Haven

[Andrew]

No.

[Fred.]

I'm with those who wouldn't bid 2D because the hand is not worth a
2-level overcall. I am curious what your opponents normally play
over your natural bid in their suit and what RGB'ers think they
should play.

Fred.

[Will in New Haven]

I think this is a good spot for a "cards" double that opener will
often have the trump length and strength to leave in.

[Frances]

We play double as take-out (e.g. 1C 2C (natural) dbl).
After, say, 1D P 1S 2S we play double as penalties if 2S is natural.

The expected shapes are somewhat different on the two auctions.