Raising partner

[David Stevenson]

Please convince me I am not out of my mind!

Two parts to the story. This is the first part. Second part next
week.

You hold

AQT843
QJ83
8
J4

Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
with 4-card majors, and your options are:

2NT a value raise to 3S or better
3S a good raise to 2S
4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
4S pre-emptive
4NT RKCB
5S pre-emptive [very!]

All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.

Which do you choose?

--
David Stevenson Bridge RTFLB Cats Railways
Liverpool, England, UK bluejak on BBO Mbl: +44 7778 409 955
<webj...@googlemail.com> EBL TD Tel: +44 151 677 7412
bluejak666 on Skype Bridgepage: http://blakjak.org/brg_menu.htm

[Stu Goodgold]

On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 5:28:11 PM UTC-7, David Stevenson wrote:
> Please convince me I am not out of my mind!
>
>
>
> Two parts to the story. This is the first part. Second part next
>
> week.
>
>
>
> You hold
>
>
>
> AQT843
>
> QJ83
>
> 8
>
> J4
>
>
>
> Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
>
> with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>
>
>
> 2NT a value raise to 3S or better
>
> 3S a good raise to 2S
>
> 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
>
> 4S pre-emptive
>
> 4NT RKCB
>
> 5S pre-emptive [very!]
>
>
>
> All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.
>
>
>
> Which do you choose?

4D. Seems the most descriptive and the best choice if partner has a strong hand since it helps him evaluated slam chances better.

Convincing you that you are not out of your mind is a considerably more difficult task. I'll pass on that one since I can't even convince myself!

-Stu Goodgold
San Jose, CA

[Carl]

4D splinter looks best from here. Good LAW raise too.

[Steve Willner]

On 2012-10-17 8:22 PM, David Stevenson wrote:
> AQT843
> QJ83
> 8
> J4
>
> Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
> with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>
> 2NT a value raise to 3S or better
> 3S a good raise to 2S
> 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
> 4S pre-emptive
> 4NT RKCB
> 5S pre-emptive [very!]

I'd need to understand the system a bit better. In particular, how much
"value" does 2NT show, and what will it mean if I bid 2NT and later
raise partner's 3S to 4S? And how sound are partner's openings?

I'm certainly not stopping short of 4S here, but 5S seems unnecessary.
The problem with 4D is that it probably overstates the high card
strength. A mini-splinter would be perfect, but you don't seem to have
that. That leaves 2NT (with 4S to follow) and a direct 4S unless you
think 4D is within range. Opposite Eric Leong, it might be. Opposite
you, David, playing Acol, I don't think so.

--
Help keep our newsgroup healthy; please don't feed the trolls.
Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 swil...@nhcc.net
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA

[Douglas Newlands]

On 18/10/12 11:22 AM, David Stevenson wrote:
>
> Please convince me I am not out of my mind!
>
> Two parts to the story. This is the first part. Second part next
> week.
>
> You hold
>
> AQT843
> QJ83
> 8
> J4
>
> Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
> with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>
> 2NT a value raise to 3S or better
> 3S a good raise to 2S
> 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
> 4S pre-emptive
> 4NT RKCB
> 5S pre-emptive [very!]
>
> All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.
> Which do you choose?

I have game values and partner might have a hand good enough to be
interested in my help towards slam.
So 3S, 4S and 5S are eliminated as not helping partner.
4N is eliminated as being too much.
2NT might be OK depending on the follow-ups but might deny a singleton
which would eliminate it. If 6H is better then maybe I have the methods
after 2NT.
4D seems normal: spade fit, singleton here and at least some slam
interest though I will not be making any further try.Give partner
KJxxx
AK9
xxx
Ax
and 6S is the place you'd like to be.

doug

[mc110...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 9:52:17 PM UTC-4, Steve Willner wrote:
> On 2012-10-17 8:22 PM, David Stevenson wrote:
>
> > AQT843
>
> > QJ83
>
> > 8
>
> > J4
>
> >
>
> > Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
>
> > with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>
> >
>
> > 2NT a value raise to 3S or better
>
> > 3S a good raise to 2S
>
> > 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
>
> > 4S pre-emptive
>
> > 4NT RKCB
>
> > 5S pre-emptive [very!]
>
>
>
> I'd need to understand the system a bit better. In particular, how much
>
> "value" does 2NT show, and what will it mean if I bid 2NT and later
>
> raise partner's 3S to 4S? And how sound are partner's openings?
>
>
>
> I'm certainly not stopping short of 4S here, but 5S seems unnecessary.
>
> The problem with 4D is that it probably overstates the high card
>
> strength. A mini-splinter would be perfect, but you don't seem to have
>
> that. That leaves 2NT (with 4S to follow) and a direct 4S unless you
>
> think 4D is within range. Opposite Eric Leong, it might be. Opposite
>
> you, David, playing Acol, I don't think so.

I'd be worried 4D would be an underbid in Standard American (since I'd make the same bid with QJxx Axxx x Axxx). (Mind you, I'd still bid 4D, because alternatives are worse, and because, though the hand has playing strength extras, it's not exactly overwhelming on controls.) Playing Acol with four-card majors, I think 4D is just right....I need a little extra playing strength vs a Std Am splinter...and I have it.

Christopher Monsour

[Mark Brader]

David Stevenson:

> 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond

That one, what else?
--
Mark Brader "I like to think of [this] as self-explanatory."
Toronto "I hope *I* think of [it] that way."
m...@vex.net -- Donald Westlake: "Trust Me On This"

[Eric Leong]

On Oct 17, 5:28 pm, David Stevenson <brid...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>   Please convince me I am not out of my mind!
>
>   Two parts to the story.  This is the first part.  Second part next
> week.
>
>   You hold
>
> AQT843
> QJ83
> 8
> J4
>
>   Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes.  You play Acol
> with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>
> 2NT  a value raise to 3S or better
> 3S   a good raise to 2S
> 4D   a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
> 4S   pre-emptive
> 4NT  RKCB
> 5S   pre-emptive [very!]
>
>   All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.
>
>   Which do you choose?

I would choose neither and bid 2H. RHO is clearly short in spades and
didn't make a bid so I think partner likely has an above average hand.
Also if LHO has some cards and shot spades I might slow him up so
partner will have room to make a better descriptive bid. Finally, if
partner has a good heart fit and discovers I also have a good spade
fit it will be easy for partner to take over a slam inquiry.

Eric Leong

>
> --
> David Stevenson            Bridge      RTFLB     Cats         Railways
> Liverpool, England, UK     bluejak on BBO        Mbl: +44 7778 409 955

> <webjak...@googlemail.com>       EBL TD          Tel: +44 151 677 7412

[Joachim Parsch]

David Stevenson schrieb:

>
> Please convince me I am not out of my mind!
>
> Two parts to the story. This is the first part. Second part next
> week.
>
> You hold
>
> AQT843
> QJ83
> 8
> J4
>
> Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
> with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>
> 2NT a value raise to 3S or better
> 3S a good raise to 2S
> 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
> 4S pre-emptive
> 4NT RKCB
> 5S pre-emptive [very!]
>
> All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.
>
> Which do you choose?

4NT is a blind shot, and 3/4/5S are underbids. Whether I would
choose 2NT or 4D depends on what I can find out about partner's
hand after 2NT systemically.

Joachim

[Robin Johnson]

2H is not an option in Acol since it shows five hearts...

Rob

[RonfromLao]

4D seems the closest to what I hold.
Ron

[Eric Leong]

On Oct 17, 11:19 pm, Robin Johnson <karjalai...@example.net> wrote:

Of course it is an option. You have no intention in playing a heart
contract.

Eric Leong

[Dave Flower]

On Thursday, 18 October 2012 01:28:11 UTC+1, David Stevenson wrote:
> Please convince me I am not out of my mind! Two parts to the story. This is the first part. Second part next week. You hold AQT843 QJ83 8 J4 Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol with 4-card majors, and your options are: 2NT a value raise to 3S or better 3S a good raise to 2S 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond 4S pre-emptive 4NT RKCB 5S pre-emptive [very!] All these raises guarantee 4+ cards. Which do you choose? -- David Stevenson Bridge RTFLB Cats Railways Liverpool, England, UK bluejak on BBO Mbl: +44 7778 409 955 <webj...@googlemail.com> EBL TD Tel: +44 151 677 7412 bluejak666 on Skype Bridgepage: http://blakjak.org/brg_menu.htm

Accepting that there is a strong case for 4D, I am going to opt for 4S. I am missing SK, HA, HK, DA, CA, CK, and, whilst there are hands where partner has only four of these which offer a good play (i.e. well over 50%) for 6S, they are relativly few.

Dave Flower

[Lorne]

On 18/10/2012 01:22, David Stevenson wrote:
>
> Please convince me I am not out of my mind!
>
> Two parts to the story. This is the first part. Second part next
> week.
>
> You hold
>
> AQT843
> QJ83
> 8
> J4
>
> Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
> with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>
> 2NT a value raise to 3S or better
> 3S a good raise to 2S
> 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
> 4S pre-emptive
> 4NT RKCB
> 5S pre-emptive [very!]
>
> All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.
>
> Which do you choose?
>

4D. The 6th spade easily makes up for the very slight shortage of HCP's.

The only other option that is even close is 2N (and then raising to 4S
if partner signs off) but if you do that partner will assume a balanced
raise since he knows you did not splinter or make a delayed game raise.

[smn]

Hi all, I also opt for 4s ,no controls and a lot of minor cards out there ,so getting to 4s in a hurry has value .Ok I missed the slam.

[Dave Flower]

On Thursday, 18 October 2012 10:26:13 UTC+1, smn wrote:
> On Thursday, October 18, 2012 1:40:50 AM UTC-7, Dave Flower wrote: > On Thursday, 18 October 2012 01:28:11 UTC+1, David Stevenson wrote: > > > Please convince me I am not out of my mind! Two parts to the story. This is the first part. Second part next week. You hold AQT843 QJ83 8 J4 Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol with 4-card majors, and your options are: 2NT a value raise to 3S or better 3S a good raise to 2S 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond 4S pre-emptive 4NT RKCB 5S pre-emptive [very!] All these raises guarantee 4+ cards. Which do you choose? -- David Stevenson Bridge RTFLB Cats Railways Liverpool, England, UK bluejak on BBO Mbl: +44 7778 409 955 <webj...@googlemail.com> EBL TD Tel: +44 151 677 7412 bluejak666 on Skype Bridgepage: http://blakjak.org/brg_menu.htm > > > > Accepting that there is a strong case for 4D, I am going to opt for 4S. I am missing SK, HA, HK, DA, CA, CK, and, whilst there are hands where partner has only four of these which offer a good play (i.e. well over 50%) for 6S, they are relativly few. > > > > Dave Flower Hi all, I also opt for 4s ,no controls and a lot of minor cards out there ,so getting to 4s in a hurry has value .Ok I missed the slam.

Agree with you about the minor cards. I am worried about the auction going:

1S p 4D p
dble 4S 5D ?

which is enough for me to prefer 4S over a questionable 4D

Dave Flower

[mc110...@gmail.com]

Well, if partner could double my response, I'd bid 4S too, planning to redouble at my next turn!

Since that isn't an option, I don't see how I can make the same bid I would have made if you changes every high-card to a spot card of the same suit.

Christopher Monsour

[mc110...@gmail.com]

I should add that against the auction 1S(P)4D(X)4S(5D), I think pass is clear if you are playing the usual expert methods (see, e.g., Robson's Partnership Bidding at Bridge), since partner's 4S bid was less forward-going than pass. You expressed your values; now make a forcing pass to tell partner you aren't sure whether it's right to double or bid on opposite the hand he has shown. You have more offense than you might (otherwise you'd double) but after partner's 4S bid you have no reason to think you can take 11 tricks if partner has diamond wastage.

Christopher Monsour

[Nick France]

On Oct 17, 8:28 pm, David Stevenson <brid...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>   Please convince me I am not out of my mind!
>
>   Two parts to the story.  This is the first part.  Second part next
> week.
>
>   You hold
>
> AQT843
> QJ83
> 8
> J4
>
>   Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes.  You play Acol
> with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>
> 2NT  a value raise to 3S or better
> 3S   a good raise to 2S
> 4D   a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
> 4S   pre-emptive
> 4NT  RKCB
> 5S   pre-emptive [very!]
>
>   All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.
>
>   Which do you choose?
>
> --
> David Stevenson            Bridge      RTFLB     Cats         Railways
> Liverpool, England, UK     bluejak on BBO        Mbl: +44 7778 409 955

> <webjak...@googlemail.com>       EBL TD          Tel: +44 151 677 7412

> bluejak666 on Skype        Bridgepage:http://blakjak.org/brg_menu.htm

4D is my first choice with 2NT a very distant 2nd. This is a good
hand if partner has the right cards and no real wasted values in
diamonds. 4NT is too arbitrary and 3S is too weak. 4S and 5S just
dont appreciate the potential of the hand.

Nick France

[David Stevenson]

Eric Leong wrote

>I would choose neither and bid 2H. RHO is clearly short in spades and
>didn't make a bid so I think partner likely has an above average hand.
>Also if LHO has some cards and shot spades I might slow him up so
>partner will have room to make a better descriptive bid. Finally, if
>partner has a good heart fit and discovers I also have a good spade
>fit it will be easy for partner to take over a slam inquiry.

I did not expect to see so many responses before I left for the
weekend, so I think I can proceed now.

The actual votes cast:

4D 7
4S 2
2H 1

However, several people thought 2NT reasonable, and some people have
not voted yet who are clearly considering 2NT or 4D.

So as not to confuse the threads, I am going to tell you the
continuations in four different situations, so please answer any of them
you wish to.

If you choose 2H, the bidding proceeds:

1S P 2H P
2S P ?

What next?

--
David Stevenson Bridge RTFLB Cats Railways
Liverpool, England, UK bluejak on BBO Mbl: +44 7778 409 955

<webj...@googlemail.com> EBL TD Tel: +44 151 677 7412

[David Stevenson]

David Stevenson wrote

>
> Please convince me I am not out of my mind!
>
> Two parts to the story. This is the first part. Second part next
>week.
>
> You hold
>
>AQT843
>QJ83
>8
>J4
>
> Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
>with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>
>2NT a value raise to 3S or better
>3S a good raise to 2S
>4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
>4S pre-emptive
>4NT RKCB
>5S pre-emptive [very!]
>
> All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.
>
> Which do you choose?

I did not expect to see so many responses before I left for the
weekend, so I think I can proceed now.

The actual votes cast:

4D 7
4S 2
2H 1

However, several people thought 2NT reasonable, and some people have
not voted yet who are clearly considering 2NT or 4D.

So as not to confuse the threads, I am going to tell you the
continuations in four different situations, so please answer any of them
you wish to.

To deal with the majority vote, the bidding proceeds:

1S P 4D 4H
4S 5H ?

What next?

[David Stevenson]

Joachim Parsch wrote

>4NT is a blind shot, and 3/4/5S are underbids. Whether I would
>choose 2NT or 4D depends on what I can find out about partner's
>hand after 2NT systemically.

I did not expect to see so many responses before I left for the
weekend, so I think I can proceed now.

The actual votes cast:

4D 7
4S 2
2H 1

However, several people thought 2NT reasonable, and some people have
not voted yet who are clearly considering 2NT or 4D.

So as not to confuse the threads, I am going to tell you the
continuations in four different situations, so please answer any of them
you wish to.

If you choose 2NT, the bidding proceeds:

1S P 2NT 3H
4H 5H ?

What next?

[David Stevenson]

Steve Willner wrote

>On 2012-10-17 8:22 PM, David Stevenson wrote:
>> AQT843
>> QJ83
>> 8
>> J4
>>
>> Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
>> with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>>
>> 2NT a value raise to 3S or better
>> 3S a good raise to 2S
>> 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
>> 4S pre-emptive
>> 4NT RKCB
>> 5S pre-emptive [very!]
>
>I'd need to understand the system a bit better. In particular, how
>much "value" does 2NT show, and what will it mean if I bid 2NT and
>later raise partner's 3S to 4S? And how sound are partner's openings?

Sound? Sound? Me?

If you bid 2NT and raise 3S to 4S you are showing game values opposite
a complete minimum but no slam interest.

What value does 2NT show? That's the question really. A matter of
judgement, I fear.

>I'm certainly not stopping short of 4S here, but 5S seems unnecessary.
>The problem with 4D is that it probably overstates the high card
>strength. A mini-splinter would be perfect, but you don't seem to have
>that. That leaves 2NT (with 4S to follow) and a direct 4S unless you
>think 4D is within range. Opposite Eric Leong, it might be. Opposite
>you, David, playing Acol, I don't think so.

No mini-splinters.

=================================================================
Douglas Newlands wrote

>2NT might be OK depending on the follow-ups but might deny a singleton
>which would eliminate it. If 6H is better then maybe I have the methods
>after 2NT.

6H is impractical.

2NT can have a singleton if it has a raise to 3S or a raise to 5S.

=================================================================

Joachim Parsch wrote
>4NT is a blind shot, and 3/4/5S are underbids. Whether I would
>choose 2NT or 4D depends on what I can find out about partner's
>hand after 2NT systemically.

Sadly, this was not my regular partner, with whom you can find
shortages and show shortages on all sequences.

With this partner he will either signoff in 3S, now new suits =
control; bid 3D which shows game values but no slam interest opposite a
raise to 3S, now new suits = control; bid 3C which is a mild slam try+
opposite a raise to 3S and asks for shortage; show a shortage himself
which is a mild slam try+ opposite a raise to 3S.

[Adam Beneschan]

On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 11:19:40 PM UTC-7, Robin Johnson wrote:

> >> AQT843
> >> QJ83
> >> 8
> >> J4
> >>
> >>   Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes.  You play Acol
> >> with 4-card majors, and your options are:

> >> 2NT  a value raise to 3S or better
> >> 3S   a good raise to 2S
> >> 4D   a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
> >> 4S   pre-emptive
> >> 4NT  RKCB
> >> 5S   pre-emptive [very!]
> >>
> >>   All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.
>
> >>   Which do you choose?
>
> > I would choose neither and bid 2H. RHO is clearly short in spades and
> > didn't make a bid so I think partner likely has an above average hand.
> > Also if LHO has some cards and shot spades I might slow him up s

> > partner will have room to make a better descriptive bid. Finally, if
> > partner has a good heart fit and discovers I also have a good spade
> > fit it will be easy for partner to take over a slam inquiry.

> 2H is not an option in Acol since it shows five hearts...

It's pretty much the same in typical American bidding. But I wonder if it makes sense? I can understand why a 2H/1S response is supposed to show five hearts: it lets partner support with three, so that you can find your 5-3 fit to play in. But if you're bidding 2H "on the way" to showing spade support later, does this restriction make sense at all?

I don't recall ever reading a discussion of this. Is there anything in the literature that suggests that 2H/1S can be made on a four- (or three-!!) card suit if you have good spade support?

Anyway, even if you haven't discussed this and your agreement is nominally that 2H shows five, I don't see how it could hurt here, since partner will figure out that you don't really want to play in hearts when you correct to spades.

-- Adam

[france...@googlemail.com]

If you choose 2NT, the bidding proceeds: 1S P 2NT 3H 4H 5H ? What next?

Your various "what happens next" threads are worryingly inconsistent or you have some non-standard partnership agreements you haven't told us about.

- If we bid 2NT showing an invitational or better raise, partner is strong enough to bid 4H over 3H. I don't know if you have discussed whether this shows a control and a slam try, or merely a hand that wants to show the high card values for game, but either way it must be a non-minimum.

- If we bid 4D showing a raise to game and a diamond shortage, and possibly slam interest, and next hand bids 4H, then partner bids 4S which is his weakest possible action but denies any interest in defending.

[Paul Hightower]

"David Stevenson" <bri...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:EvUuOeC4...@blakjak.demon.co.uk...

>
> Please convince me I am not out of my mind!
>
> Two parts to the story. This is the first part. Second part next
> week.
>
> You hold
>
> AQT843
> QJ83
> 8
> J4
>
> Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
> with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>
> 2NT a value raise to 3S or better
> 3S a good raise to 2S
> 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
> 4S pre-emptive
> 4NT RKCB
> 5S pre-emptive [very!]
>
> All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.
>
> Which do you choose?

4D seems about right. If partner retreats to 4S, I'm content to pass. If
partner cue-bids 4H, I'll bid 4S; basically, I'm not making any more slam
moves but if partne heads to 6S I think I've got enough.

[Mark Brader]

David Stevenson:

>> You hold
>>
>> AQT843
>> QJ83
>> 8
>> J4
>>
>> Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
>> with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>>
>> 2NT a value raise to 3S or better
>> 3S a good raise to 2S
>> 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
>> 4S pre-emptive
>> 4NT RKCB
>> 5S pre-emptive [very!]
>>
>> All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.

> So as not to confuse the threads, I am going to tell you the
> continuations in four different situations, so please answer any of them
> you wish to.
>
> To deal with the majority vote, the bidding proceeds:
>
> 1S P 4D 4H
> 4S 5H ?
>
> What next?

Pass.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto |"--", Paul said, and then repeated it for emphasis.
m...@vex.net | --Spider Robinson, "Lifehouse"

[Co Wiersma]

>
> I did not expect to see so many responses before I left for the
> weekend, so I think I can proceed now.
>
> The actual votes cast:
>
> 4D 7
> 4S 2
> 2H 1
>
> However, several people thought 2NT reasonable, and some people have
> not voted yet who are clearly considering 2NT or 4D.
>
> So as not to confuse the threads, I am going to tell you the
> continuations in four different situations, so please answer any of them
> you wish to.
>
> To deal with the majority vote, the bidding proceeds:
>
> 1S P 4D 4H
> 4S 5H ?
>
> What next?
>

double

[Will in New Haven]

On Oct 17, 8:28 pm, David Stevenson <brid...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>   Please convince me I am not out of my mind!
>
>   Two parts to the story.  This is the first part.  Second part next
> week.
>

>   You hold
>
> AQT843
> QJ83
> 8
> J4
>
>   Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes.  You play Acol
> with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>
> 2NT  a value raise to 3S or better
> 3S   a good raise to 2S
> 4D   a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
> 4S   pre-emptive
> 4NT  RKCB
> 5S   pre-emptive [very!]
>
>   All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.
>

>   Which do you choose?

I think 4D is fine. If partner isn't interested in slam, now I'm not
either because I've shown my values. I can't bid 4S because we've
defined it as "preemptive" just as you have but we have defined it
closely enough that this hand is too strong. If I played 2NT the way
you do, it would be within range but I would not think it advisable to
leave the opponents so much room. Actually, it is in range the way we
play it but I still wouldn't do it. I would not have considered any of
the other bids.

--
Will in New Haven

[Will in New Haven]

On Oct 18, 7:32 am, Dave Flower <DavJFlo...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, 18 October 2012 10:26:13 UTC+1, smn wrote:

> > On Thursday, October 18, 2012 1:40:50 AM UTC-7, Dave Flower wrote: > On Thursday, 18 October 2012 01:28:11 UTC+1, David Stevenson wrote: > > > Please convince me I am not out of my mind! Two parts to the story. This is the first part. Second part next week. You hold AQT843 QJ83 8 J4 Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol with 4-card majors, and your options are: 2NT a value raise to 3S or better 3S a good raise to 2S 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond 4S pre-emptive 4NT RKCB 5S pre-emptive [very!] All these raises guarantee 4+ cards. Which do you choose? -- David Stevenson Bridge RTFLB Cats Railways Liverpool, England, UK bluejak on BBO Mbl: +44 7778 409 955 <webjak...@googlemail.com> EBL TD Tel: +44 151 677 7412 bluejak666 on Skype Bridgepage:http://blakjak.org/brg_menu.htm> > > > Accepting that there is a strong case for 4D, I am going to opt for 4S. I am missing SK, HA, HK, DA, CA, CK, and, whilst there are hands where partner has only four of these which offer a good play (i.e. well over 50%) for 6S, they are relativly few. > > > > Dave Flower Hi all, I also opt for 4s ,no controls and a lot of minor cards out there ,so getting to 4s in a hurry has value .Ok I missed the slam.

>
> Agree with you about the minor cards. I am worried about the auction going:
>
> 1S    p     4D      p
> dble   4S    5D     ?
>
> which is enough for me to prefer 4S over a questionable 4D

Would it be legal for your partner to double your 4D bid? I guess that
bidding diagram is wrong.

[Douglas Newlands]

6S

Apologies if there are two replies: I can't see one and I don't appear
to have replied to dws alone by accident.

Oppos tell me partner has a heart void.
Partner could have passed rather than bid 4S.
Partner might have bid more with some reasonable hands
like
Kxxxx
-
Axxx
AKxx
How would you bid this? 5C then 6D or ???

Bidding 7S seems a pipe dream but 6S looks as though it will
be fine if partner has a minor suit ace.

d

[smn]

On Wednesday, October 17, 2012 5:28:11 PM UTC-7, David Stevenson wrote:
> Please convince me I am not out of my mind!
>
>
>
> Two parts to the story. This is the first part. Second part next
>
> week.
>
>
>
> You hold
>
>
>
> AQT843
>
> QJ83
>
> 8
>
> J4
>
>
>
> Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
>
> with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>
>
>
> 2NT a value raise to 3S or better
>
> 3S a good raise to 2S
>
> 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
>
> 4S pre-emptive
>
> 4NT RKCB
>
> 5S pre-emptive [very!]
>
>
>
> All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.
>
>
>
> Which do you choose?
>
>
>

> --
>
> David Stevenson Bridge RTFLB Cats Railways
>
> Liverpool, England, UK bluejak on BBO Mbl: +44 7778 409 955
>

> <webj...@googlemail.com> EBL TD Tel: +44 151 677 7412

>
> bluejak666 on Skype Bridgepage: http://blakjak.org/brg_menu.htm

So what happened after 1s-p-4s ;From what you said about 1s-p-4d makes this minority view look pretty profitable. Regards,smn

[Joachim Parsch]

David Stevenson schrieb:

> If you choose 2NT, the bidding proceeds:
>
> 1S P 2NT 3H
> 4H 5H ?
>
> What next?

6S - Partner probably has a heart void, and he cannot
hold a minimum anyway.

Joachim

[Joachim Parsch]

David Stevenson schrieb:

I've never been very good at guessing these situations,
but a point can be made for 5S, forcing pass and double.
So it's probably best to choose a forcing pass, as partner
may be a better guesser :-)

Joachim

[Co Wiersma]

Op 19-10-2012 7:23, Douglas Newlands schreef:

> 6S
>
> Apologies if there are two replies: I can't see one and I don't appear
> to have replied to dws alone by accident.
>
> Oppos tell me partner has a heart void.
> Partner could have passed rather than bid 4S.
> Partner might have bid more with some reasonable hands
> like
> Kxxxx
> -
> Axxx
> AKxx
> How would you bid this? 5C then 6D or ???
>
> Bidding 7S seems a pipe dream but 6S looks as though it will
> be fine if partner has a minor suit ace.

I thought that 4S usually denied a heart control.
(double primary control, pass secondary)
If so then partner just told me he has at least 2 hearts

Co Wiersma

[Frances]

To deal with the majority vote, the bidding proceeds: 1S P 4D 4H 4S 5H ? What next?

Partner has shown a minimum hand unsuitable for slam, so I double.

[Frances]

If you choose 2NT, the bidding proceeds: 1S P 2NT 3H 4H 5H ? What next?

This depends on agreements, and I bet we don't have any, but in theory partner has shown slam interest and I'm prepared to assume from the opponents' auction that he has first round heart control (although I don't think he's promised that).

As he's shown slam interest opposite a limit raise I will be bidding a slam. I pass then raise 5S to 6S to show a good hand but no minor suit ace.

[Mich Ravera]

"David Stevenson" <bri...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:EvUuOeC4...@blakjak.demon.co.uk...
>

> Please convince me I am not out of my mind!
>
> Two parts to the story. This is the first part. Second part next
> week.
>
> You hold
>
> AQT843
> QJ83
> 8
> J4
>
> Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
> with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>
> 2NT a value raise to 3S or better
> 3S a good raise to 2S
> 4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
> 4S pre-emptive
> 4NT RKCB
> 5S pre-emptive [very!]
>
> All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.
>
> Which do you choose?

My best choice is to bid 2NT to find out where partner is (assuming that, if
he doesn't shut it down, that he has ways to tell you about the location of
high cards or to ask you about them). If partner shuts it down, I will
probably bid 4S. It's hard to imagine how you are going to lose more than
about 3 tricks, even if partner opened a shapely 8-count. The only downside
is possibility (even likelihood) of a high-level preempt. See below.

Assuming that partner only opens "good" 4-card spade suits when 4(441) 10-14
or in situations when balanced and 15+, I'm going for 4D. It's easy to
imagine a slam opposite a particularly well-mannered 10-count with club
shortage (and you would have to be pretty unlucky not to make a slam
opposite a ballanced 15-count where your partner would bid it).

You have too many outside losers for RKCB. You could determine that partner
has all 4 missing keycards and still not be sure about whether to bid 6S
(you could well have two round-suit losers).

3S and 4S are both likely to miss something.

5S, although preemptive, should be asking for two specific cards for a grand
and that's not what you want to know.

The only disadvantage to 2NT is that someone at the table has a large pile
of minor suit cards and may preempt you out of your shoes. Can either of you
double 6D and know that they aren't stealing from you?

[ttw...@att.net]

As my hand primarily offers trumps and ruffing values, 4D seems best.
Partner can then discount Diamond honors. Partner (I assume) has the
tools to find out about Spade honors if that matters. I don't think
seeking a 4-4 fit in Hearts is so useful; 7H is probably not in the
cards. My failure to make a strength-showing (rather than shape
showing) bid should alert partner to the possibility that I lack
outside controls. The hand does value out to 13 (Goren) points and to
5 losers (6, but subtract 1 for the known 10-card trump fit.) Partner
may have a suit that's an outside source of tricks, but my knowing
that won't tell me if we have a good slam, so this is a "telling"
rather than an "asking" hand.

[Eric Leong]

On Oct 18, 7:59 am, David Stevenson <brid...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

> Eric Leong wrote
>
> >I would choose neither and bid 2H. RHO is clearly short in spades and
> >didn't make a bid so I think partner likely has an above average hand.
> >Also if LHO has some cards and shot spades I might slow him up so
> >partner will have room to make a better descriptive bid. Finally, if
> >partner has a good heart fit and discovers I also have a good spade
> >fit it will be easy for partner to take over a slam inquiry.
>
>   I did not expect to see so many responses before I left for the
> weekend, so I think I can proceed now.
>
>   The actual votes cast:
>
> 4D  7
> 4S  2
> 2H  1
>
>   However, several people thought 2NT reasonable, and some people have
> not voted yet who are clearly considering 2NT or 4D.
>
>   So as not to confuse the threads, I am going to tell you the
> continuations in four different situations, so please answer any of them
> you wish to.
>
>   If you choose 2H, the bidding proceeds:
>
> 1S  P   2H  P
> 2S  P   ?
>
>   What next?

4D Splinter?

Eric Leong

>
> --
> David Stevenson            Bridge      RTFLB     Cats         Railways
> Liverpool, England, UK     bluejak on BBO        Mbl: +44 7778 409 955

> <webjak...@googlemail.com>       EBL TD          Tel: +44 151 677 7412

[Paul Hightower]

"David Stevenson" <bri...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message

news:M7fs78Fq...@blakjak.demon.co.uk...

5S. It's teams, both five level contract may well make given partner's
marked heart shortage, but I expect we can set 6H -- partner rates to have a
club or diamond trick they can't wriggle out of.

[Eric Leong]

On Oct 18, 7:59 am, David Stevenson <brid...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

At this point I would take a shot at 6S. Partner is most likely void
in hearts. Also, partner must have something decent in clubs because
with just diamond wastage partner would not continue bidding and take
the option of doubling 4H off of the table.

Eric Leong

>
> --
> David Stevenson            Bridge      RTFLB     Cats         Railways
> Liverpool, England, UK     bluejak on BBO        Mbl: +44 7778 409 955

> <webjak...@googlemail.com>       EBL TD          Tel: +44 151 677 7412

[David Stevenson]

Eric Leong wrote

Partner bids 4S. Now?

--
David Stevenson Bridge RTFLB Cats Railways
Liverpool, England, UK bluejak on BBO Mbl: +44 7778 409 955

<webj...@googlemail.com> EBL TD Tel: +44 151 677 7412

[David Stevenson]

wrote

Correct. Rightly or wrongly that is what I think my hand is worth.

[David Stevenson]

David Stevenson wrote

Votes:

6S 2
Pass 2
Dbl 2
5S 1

Wonderful! It clearly is a tricky hand.

What I do not understand is this: outside spades ***all*** your values
[ok, except a doubleton jack] are in the suit the opponents want to play
in. In what way does this encourage you to bid on?

Given the other auctions, I can understand somewhat that people might
look at my hand and think I have been too forward, but on this hand I
have shown no interest in progressing and the opponents are trying to
play in your second best suit.

6s and 5S to me are beyond belief. But even a forcing pass: is not
bridge a partnership game? Would it not be a good idea that to tell
partner that you wish to defend?

[Mark Brader]

David Stevenson:

> 6s and 5S to me are beyond belief. But even a forcing pass: is not
> bridge a partnership game? Would it not be a good idea that to tell
> partner that you wish to defend?

I meant pass as "I have already told you everything", i.e. not forcing.
On deals where you get to the game level via a splinter, you don't
necessarily "own" the hand; you may need your suit to be trump.
So I don't think forcing pass should apply.

If pass is forcing then I agree with the double.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Astronauts practice landing on laptops"
m...@vex.net | --Ft. Myers, FL, News-Press, March 13, 1994

My text in this article is in the public domain.

[Eric Leong]

On Oct 22, 7:42 am, David Stevenson <brid...@nospam.demon.co.uk>

I would pass. If partner had a heart honor he would have bid 4H. If
partner had a heart stiff or void and extra minor suit controls he
still had a chance to keep the auction alive.

Eric Leong

>
> --
> David Stevenson            Bridge      RTFLB     Cats         Railways
> Liverpool, England, UK     bluejak on BBO        Mbl: +44 7778 409 955

> <webjak...@googlemail.com>       EBL TD          Tel: +44 151 677 7412

[ttw...@att.net]

After 1S P 4D 4H 4S 5H, I'd pass. Partner didn't think my long trumps
and Diamond singleton improved our chances. Unfortunately (as if often
the case with splinters), the opponents know which way to finesse in
trumps.

[Joachim Parsch]

David Stevenson schrieb:

> >> You hold
> >>
> >>AQT843
> >>QJ83
> >>8
> >>J4

[...]

> >1S P 4D 4H
> >4S 5H ?
> >
> > What next?

[...]

> 6s and 5S to me are beyond belief. But even a forcing pass: is not
> bridge a partnership game? Would it not be a good idea that to tell
> partner that you wish to defend?

QJxx in hearts strongly suggests defending, that is correct. But
the splinter showed only 4-card spade support, and the 5th and 6th
spade make the hand considerably stronger in offense. So a forcing
pass as a middle-of-the-road bid may be best opposite e.g.
KJxxx, -, QTxx, Axxx (where they might even make 5H, although that
is rather unlikely).

Joachim

[Eric Leong]

Is it just possible that the partnership might want the option to
double 4H as a cooperative venture rather than declare 4S?

Eric Leong

[france...@googlemail.com]

- If we bid 4D showing a raise to game and a diamond shortage, and possibly slam interest, and next hand bids 4H, then partner bids 4S which is his weakest possible action but denies any interest in defending.

>Is it just possible that the partnership might want the option to double 4H as a cooperative venture rather than declare 4S? Eric Leong

Yes of course it is at the point when LHO bids 4H. I don't understand your point. We have already been told that after 1S P 4D 4H partner bids 4S, so partner has denied interest in defending 4H as I said.

[france...@googlemail.com]

But even a forcing pass: is not bridge a partnership game? Would it not be a good idea that to tell partner that you wish to defend?

I wouldn't play pass as forcing here.

[Joachim Parsch]

[auction 1S - pass - 4D - 4H
4S - 5H - ?? ]

france...@googlemail.com schrieb:

> I wouldn't play pass as forcing here.

Why not? 4D is not preemptive, it is a constructive raise
to 4S. I don't think that there are very many occasions
where you want to let them play 5H undoubled.

You would have doubled 5H in the given auction. Reasonable
enough anyway, and even more reasonable, if pass isn't forcing.

But: if pass was forcing here, would you double or pass with
the hand in question?

Joachim

[HoneyMonster]

I would play pass as forcing, after we have bid constructively to game.
But I'd still double to show interest in defending.

[Steve Willner]

>>> AQT843
>>> QJ83
>>> 8
>>> J4
>>>
>>> Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
>>> with 4-card majors, and your options are:

> If you bid 2NT and raise 3S to 4S you are showing game values opposite a
> complete minimum but no slam interest.

That still looks OK to me. Eric's 2H is also a good choice, but I think
I'd rather get the raise in right away.

> If you choose 2NT, the bidding proceeds:
> 1S P 2NT 3H
> 4H 5H ?

I'm thinking partner might have something like Kxxxx -- Axxx Axxx but
maybe one more card. I suppose a king instead of an ace is possible,
but I don't see why partner would invite slam with that opposite my "no
slam interest" and not even necessarily game values. Couldn't I have
had Axxx Kxxx Kxx xx ?

My first thought on how to proceed -- 6H -- was pretty silly. On
reading other answers, I think Frances' forcing pass followed by 6S is
what I like. In this auction, I don't see bidding less than 6S, and I'd
like to invite a grand.

Along with Frances, though, I'm worried about the other sequence. Why
is partner showing slam interest in the 2NT auction but not opposite the
ostensibly stronger 4D bid? Double looks right in that auction if pass
is forcing, as I think it should be. If not, a non-forcing pass looks
OK. Forcing pass is also reasonable. I don't want to bid 5S at any rate.

--
Help keep our newsgroup healthy; please don't feed the trolls.
Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 swil...@nhcc.net
Cambridge, MA 02138 USA

[dake50]

I'm hearing 4D splinter on 2 controls?
Take up space with a non-descript bid?
4D needs to be close to SAxxx+, SKxxx+ AND A+A in addition to 0-1xD.
Without a top trump or without 4 controls start exploring with lower forces.
I actually like 2H not 4D as that's where a fitting H-honor would be gold.

[Eric Leong]

In that case you can pass and then bid 4S when partner doubles.

Eric Leong

[David Stevenson]

Steve Willner wrote

>>>> AQT843
>>>> QJ83
>>>> 8
>>>> J4
>>>>
>>>> Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
>>>> with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>
>> If you bid 2NT and raise 3S to 4S you are showing game values opposite a
>> complete minimum but no slam interest.
>
>That still looks OK to me. Eric's 2H is also a good choice, but I
>think I'd rather get the raise in right away.
>
>> If you choose 2NT, the bidding proceeds:
>> 1S P 2NT 3H
>> 4H 5H ?
>
>I'm thinking partner might have something like Kxxxx -- Axxx Axxx but
>maybe one more card. I suppose a king instead of an ace is possible,
>but I don't see why partner would invite slam with that opposite my "no
>slam interest" and not even necessarily game values. Couldn't I have
>had Axxx Kxxx Kxx xx ?

You haven't shown no slam interest: you have shown a raise to three or
better. I was asked what a specific sequence shows.

--
David Stevenson Bridge RTFLB Cats Railways
Liverpool, England, UK bluejak on BBO Mbl: +44 7778 409 955

<webj...@googlemail.com> EBL TD Tel: +44 151 677 7412

[David Stevenson]

>>David Stevenson wrote

>>> You hold
>>>
>>>AQT843
>>>QJ83
>>>8
>>>J4
>>>
>>> Partner opens 1S, teams, white [nv v nv], RHO passes. You play Acol
>>>with 4-card majors, and your options are:
>>>
>>>2NT a value raise to 3S or better
>>>3S a good raise to 2S
>>>4D a raise to 4S with a singleton or void diamond
>>>4S pre-emptive
>>>4NT RKCB
>>>5S pre-emptive [very!]
>>>
>>> All these raises guarantee 4+ cards.
>>>
>>> Which do you choose?

I can see the people with large sharp implements looming.

I held opposite

KJ975
4
KQ965
A5

Neither 5S nor 2H makes.

I presume from some comments that people are going to say I did not
have my 4H bid after

1S P 2NT 3H

but what else do you suggest? Signoff and miss a slam opposite

Axxx
xxx
AJx
xxx ?

Or do you think that hand will make a try?

It is still my view that anyone who hears hearts bid on both sides is
making a huge mistake not doubling 5H.

Note however that a splinter makes life much easier.

At the time I thought a 4S response was correct with the lack of
controls outside spades. However, I have since been convinced that 4D
is correct.

[Eric Leong]

On Oct 25, 1:35 pm, David Stevenson <brid...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

Why not bid 4D rather than 4H? With good fitting cards wouldn't
partner make another move?

Eric Leong

>
>   It is still my view that anyone who hears hearts bid on both sides is
> making a huge mistake not doubling 5H.
>
>   Note however that a splinter makes life much easier.
>
>   At the time I thought a 4S response was correct with the lack of
> controls outside spades.  However, I have since been convinced that 4D
> is correct.
>
> --
> David Stevenson            Bridge      RTFLB     Cats         Railways
> Liverpool, England, UK     bluejak on BBO        Mbl: +44 7778 409 955

> <webjak...@googlemail.com>       EBL TD          Tel: +44 151 677 7412

[mc110...@gmail.com]

I would suggest that 4D is clear as crystal. And this isn't an American thing, since I learned this style of competitive bidding from Robson and Segal's _Partnership Bidding at Bridge_.

You don't have a huge hand for a slam, especially as partner might have only a limit raise, but you do need partner to know (i) at least you belong in game; (ii) that a secondary diamond fit means he should probably bid on over 5H. And he can also use that information to make a lighter slam try than normal when he fits diamonds. *And* you leave room for LHO to bid 4H and give your partner a chance to make a slam try without bypassing 4S by passing 4H around to you (and pulling to 4S if you double, bidding on if you bid 4S), which is easy to do with a hand like AQxx xxx AJx xxx. Perhaps getting to slam opposite Axxx xxx AJx xxx is asking a bit much. (I would not have that problem...Knowing how light you open, I wouldn't have raised you to 3 with that.)

Christopher Monsour

[france...@googlemail.com]

On Wednesday, October 24, 2012 3:31:24 AM UTC+1, Eric Leong wrote:
> On Oct 23, 2:28 am, franceshin...@googlemail.com wrote: > - If we bid 4D showing a raise to game and a diamond shortage, and possibly slam interest, and next hand bids 4H, then partner bids 4S which is his weakest possible action but denies any interest in defending. > > >Is it just possible that the partnership might want the option to double 4H as a cooperative venture rather than declare 4S? Eric Leong > > Yes of course it is at the point when LHO bids 4H.  I don't understand your point. We have already been told that after 1S P 4D 4H partner bids 4S, so partner has denied interest in defending 4H as I said. In that case you can pass and then bid 4S when partner doubles. Eric Leong

You are clearly reading a totally different auction to the rest of us. THe auction has started

1S P 4D 4H 4S

Partner has ALREADY BID over 4H.

[france...@googlemail.com]

I can see the people with large sharp implements looming.
I held opposite KJ975 4 KQ965 A5

I agree with everyone else who bids 4D, natural, after 1S P 2NT 3H. It tells partner what your hand is about.

[David Stevenson]

wrote

I suppose the problem with this is that since

1H p 2NT p
4D

shows a shortage and a slam try I assumed that

1H p 2NT (3H)
4D

does as well.

[Steve Willner]

On 2012-10-25 4:24 PM, David Stevenson wrote:
> You haven't shown no slam interest: you have shown a raise to three or
> better.

OK, fair enough. That's still at least potentially weaker than a
game-forcing 4D.

On opener's actual hand (KJ975 4 KQ965 A5 after 1S-P-2NT!-3H-), I don't
understand the 4H bid. Along with everyone else, I think 4D is normal.
I can also see 4C if you think this is a control-bidding situation and
always start with the cheapest control or cheapest first-round control,
but I'm afraid this isn't the hand I'd expect for 4H. I wouldn't be
thinking about slam with opener's hand, though it's certainly possible,
but I'd be more concerned with getting a potential decision over 5H or
6H right.

[Eric Leong]

I don't think bidding 4S over 4H shows a weaker hand than passing. If
opener has a weak opener he can pass and then decide what to do if
partner reopens with a double.

Eric Leong

[france...@googlemail.com]

>I suppose the problem with this is that since 1H p 2NT p 4D shows a shortage and >a slam try I assumed that 1H p 2NT (3H) 4D does as well. -- David Stevenson

The difference is that after

1H p 2NT p

you have two ways of bidding diamonds, at the 3-level and the 4-level, and can use one of them to show a suit and the other one to show a shortage.

Once the opponents have intervened with 3H, you now only have one way to bidding diamonds. It's a matter of agreement what you play, but many people find it better to use the 4m bids to show a real suit than shortage, because (i) if you have diamond shortage you probably have heart length, which is bad for slam, so you are less likely to want to bother shoring it, and (ii) it may become a competitive auction, and telling partner you have a good side suit can help him judge. [these are both also reasons to use the bid to show shortage, as I said it's a matter of agreement]

We play an additional agreement. Assuming that we know we have a 9-card fit (a 5-card major opening and a response showing an invitational hand with 4 card support) then on similar auctions when they bid at the 3-level:

- double shows a singleton in their suit and slam interest
- 3NT shows a power game bid with no side suit, sets up a forcing pass
- 4m is natural distributional, not necessarily a slam try
- 4M opposite an invite is a random punt with no slam interest, no forcing pass.
- pass is a game try, signing off is the weakest action

[france...@googlemail.com]

I don't think bidding 4S over 4H shows a weaker hand than passing. If opener has a weak opener he can pass and then decide what to do if partner reopens with a double. Eric Leong

Responder's 4D bid is game forcing, so unless you think once they bid 4H that it's possible to pass this out, pass over 4H is forcing.

Opener can do two things: he can pass then bid 4S if partner doubles, or he can bid 4S at once. One of these must be a stronger thand than the other. The normal agreement is that passing then pulling is stronger than bidding at once. You can reverse that if you want, but that's non-standard.

[David Stevenson]

wrote

I understand the basic methods of rebidding after 1M 2NT but I find
them awful. So I do not play them if I can get away from them. My own
methods are these:

1M 2NT
3C Mild slam try+ opposite a raise to 3M, asks for singleton/void
3D No slam interest opposite a raise to 3M, GF, leaves room for
partner to investigate
3M To play opposite a raise to 3M
3oM Mild slam try+ opposite a raise to 3M, shows singleton]void
3NT Strong NT opening, usually 4333
4m Mild slam try+ opposite a raise to 3M, shows singleton]void
4M Pre-emptive, no useful slam features whatever
4oM Exclusion RKCB
4NT RKCB
5m Exclusion RKCB

In practice we reverse 4S/4NT when hearts are agreed, and are
discussing doing so with 3S/3NT

1M 2NT
3D 3M Mild slam try+, asks for singleton/void
3oM Mild slam try+, shows singleton/void
4m Mild slam try+, shows singleton/void
4M To play

1M 2NT
3M 3NT Mild slam try+, asks for controls
3/4oM Mild slam try+, shows singleton/void
4m Mild slam try+, shows singleton/void
4M To play

We definitely must swap 3S and 3NT here!

After intervention over 2NT we play:

Over 3m DFPS, ie 3C/D rebids are replaced by Dbl/Pass: 3H+ unchanged
Over 3M DF3NS, ie 3C/D rebids are replaced by Dbl/3NT: 3S+ unchanged

This seems to work. Unfortunately I was not playing with my regular
partner when this occurred, so he does not play the bids over
intervention - shame - nor, for that matter, the second round
continuations.

When I am forced to play Jacoby I have little idea what I am doing.

Note that none of this means I disagree with your logic for playing

1M P 2NT (3oM)
4m

as natural, but not based on the [to me] absurd Jacoby arrangements.