What rebid do you like?
Jordan
Partner bids 2D (natural and game-forcing).
What rebid do you like?
2S? 2NT? 3D?
Thanks.
henry...@yahoo.com
This is mostly a matter of style and agreements.
(1) Some people play that a 2s rebid promises 6 and that a raise
promises 4. For those partnerships, 2nt is the catchall bid and would
be the rebid here.
(2) Some partnerships play that 2nt promises stoppers in both unbid
suits. For those partnerships, 2s is a catchall bid and could be the
rebid here.
(3) I like to play, in addition to '2,' that a raise promises 4
(hence distributional extras) or 3 with at least 13 hcps (hence enough
to force to game opposite a bid-and-rebid minor). This hand would
qualify. Still, if I raise to 3d, what can responder do with, say,
Qx
Jxx
QJT9xx
AQ
give false preference to 3s, I suppose,but that doesn't really help us
sort out stoppers for 3nt.
NT auctions when we have diamonds suffer because club cards can't be
shown below 3nt. Sometime, when I have a minute, I need to figure out
a way to resolve that problem. Roy Hughes suggests switching around
the meanings of some of the bids in his book "Building a bidding
system," and that may be the way to go.
Henrysun909
TWOferBRIDGE
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HenryS has provided an excellent summary of the options.
Here, as with Henry, I have no problem with 3D
w/ A K x......
- - Don - -
raija d
"Jordan" <jc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4cudnQALVLWIlajX...@earthlink.com...
Need to know the system when posting bidding problems.
In 2/1, I rebid 2S =default rebid when other rebids not available and this
is the only choice in my system which is a common one among 2/1 players. [3D
would show 4-card support and 2NT would show other two suits stopped.]
Even in SAYC or SA, I might rebid 2S although it there promises six, but
that promise should not be not be very firm. If your partnership ALWAYS
promises six+, then 2NT is the only other choice.
Raija
Eric Leong
3D shows extras which you don't have.
2NT shows stoppers in the unbid suits which you don't have.
Consequently, 2S is your only remaining systemic choice.
Eric Leong
Sid
err, why does 3D show extras?
Sid
TWOferBRIDGE
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 08:20:14 -0700 (PDT), Eric Leong
>
> >On 14 June, 22:24, "Jordan" <jc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> At matchpoints, vul unknown, you hold KJTxx / Qxx / AKx / xx and open 1S.
> >> Partner bids 2D (natural and game-forcing).
> >> What rebid do you like?
> >> 2S? 2NT? 3D?
>
> >> Thanks.
>
> >3D shows extras which you don't have.
> >2NT shows stoppers in the unbid suits which you don't have.
> >Consequently, 2S is your only remaining systemic choice.
>
> err, why does 3D show extras?
>
> Sid
88888888888888888888888888888888888
errr, I was going to ask the same thing:
Why does 3D have to show "extras"
playing 2/1 GF ?
paul
My usual agreement is that 3D would show extra values, so I'll stall
one round with 2S, expecting to bid 3D next round. I'm certainly not
bidding 2NT with a small doubleton in an unbid suit.
paul
>
> >On 14 June, 22:24, "Jordan" <jc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> At matchpoints, vul unknown, you hold KJTxx / Qxx / AKx / xx and open 1S.
> >> Partner bids 2D (natural and game-forcing).
> >> What rebid do you like?
> >> 2S? 2NT? 3D?
>
> >> Thanks.
>
> >3D shows extras which you don't have.
> >2NT shows stoppers in the unbid suits which you don't have.
> >Consequently, 2S is your only remaining systemic choice.
>
> err, why does 3D show extras?
>
> Sid
It's important to distinguish hands of different strengths. The whole
point of playing 2/1 GF is to allow room to explore for slam. 3C and
3D take up a lot of bidding room; if they are made on hands of any
strength, responder does not know whether to explore for 3NT or 6 of
the minor.
Fred.
My partnership agreement is that all rebids except 2 of the opening
major, and 2H having opened 1S promise extra values, so 2S is
automatic on this hand. Even with stoppers, I would limit my hand by
rebidding 2S, and bid NT next time around.
Fred.
Art Hoffman
"TWOferBRIDGE" <donst...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:a273c836-5779-4ed8...@n7g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
88888888888888888888888888888888888
--------------------------------------------
Who said it was 2/1 gf? If SA, 3D does require "extras." If 2/1, 3D does
not, IMO.
Art Hoffman
"paul" <paul...@infi.net> wrote in message
news:0448641e-1c56-421f...@y33g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You and I have a different view of 2/1 gf. Partner is guaranteeing game.
His diamonds are, at a minimum, QJxxx. That leaves an awful lot outside of
diamonds. I believe that with support, you support. (Why obfuscate with 2S
when I've got support?) Then deal with what comes next. Most times he will
bid spades; if 3S, I'm cooperating by rebidding diamonds. If 4S (fast
arrival), I'll pass. If 3H, I'll bid 3S. If 3NT, I'll pass. Others, we'll
see. If he bid 2D without support of spades, he's got to be very good. If
he's only mediocre, then he probably should have bid 1 NT (forcing).
TWOferBRIDGE
> "TWOferBRIDGE" <donstenm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
888888888888888888888888888888888888
Art..... the original post said
"Partner bids 2D ( natural and game forcing ) "
Art Hoffman
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Therefore, the answer to my (rhetorical) question is OP (:-)
raija d
"Art Hoffman" <ar...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:h13ucm$l4d$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
=====
Why would his diamonds be "at a minimum QJxxx" ? They could be four cards
long for all I know.
Raija
Art Hoffman
"raija d" <must...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:EAhZl.34544$VL5....@newsfe22.iad...
OK she's got 4 diamonds. And if 4, she's got spades too, I betcha.
boblipton
> "Art Hoffman" <ar...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:h13ucm$l4d$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
>
>
Could be 65432 unless he's got 4 and this topic comes up every once in
a while on rgb. It's what I consider to be the distinction between
"2/1 Game Forcing" and "2/1 Game Forcing Except When it Isn't".
If you are playing 2/1 Game Forcing, then you wish to find and offer
fits and double fits in order to investigate various strains and
levels as quickly as possible. In order to do this, make the
assumption that partner has a five-card diamond suit. If his shape is
3=3=4=3 or, if playing Flannery, 4=3=4=2 with no interest in
mentioning spades, partner may find it possible to get to the fit in
hearts by the astonishing maneuver of bidding hearts after you raise
diamonds. If your hand is 4=2=4=3 and you have decided not to
mention your spade (which strikes me as at least mildly eccentric
unless you are terrified that partner will turn up with the 2=5=3=3
16-pointer and you will miss the 30-point slam, and paranoid if you
are), there is still a chance of getting to 3NT
In addition, insisting on extras for a rebid higher than 2 Hearts in
this circumstance redoces the amount of information offered If the
bidding goes 1H-2D-2H, you may know that partner has a minimum, but
you don't know whether he has five hearts or more, which may be
crucial.
The only time this obtuse and unwieldy series of epicyclical
perambulations might come in useful is when you have a long diamond
suit and a bit shy of enough to force to fame. This is when people
play "2/1 Game Forcing Except When It Isn't". Me, I like to respond
to 1 Heart with 1NT and then rebid some number of diamonds when
appropriate.
Although this astonishing idea of supporting with support is
considered highly radical by some people, I think it may have
possibility. Perhaps someone would be kind enough to run a computer
simulation in sufficiently high numbers.
Bob
raija d
"boblipton" <bobl...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:4014fdf5-c8a5-4bc1...@s38g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Just a comment on "insisting on extras".
In 2/1 [always GF] - a fourth trump and unbalanced hand is enough extras,
IMO. However, 5-3-3-2 is not the right shape to do it, EVEN IF opener had
extra HCP. Raising diamonds with three-card support in the OP auction is a
rare occasion and should never be done with a minimum hand and balanced
shape.
Raija
t
> "boblipton" <boblip...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
The main advantage I see to bidding 3D with OP's original hand is that
it attempts to rightside a NT contract in a your-weakest-suits context
Fred.
>
> - Show quoted text -
I play 2/1 game forcing except when it isn't, but when it isn't the
minor suit will run at NT if opener has the outside stoppers. With
less, I agree that responder should start with a forcing NT. But this
is just one rason for showing extras, and one I could abandon if
necessary.
I have no problem raising to 3D with 3-card support, even though
responder may have a 4-card (or, in some cases, a 3-card) minor. My
concern is that raising to 3D with a minimum up can leave the
partnership groping on the choice of parking a fit in 3NT or moving
toward slam.
My experience is that the hands with 6-card majors generally work
out. In fact, I can't recall an obvious problem hand. But, I admit
that I might have missed some subtle problem hands. Like you, I'd
like to see simulation data.
What do you think would be good parameters for simulation, given that
not all hands with 6-card majors go bad, and that the meaning of the
jump rebid in the major suit may be critical to the setup? I go with
a reliable suit and 17 to 19 points, including conservative
distributional values. But, I am sure there are plenty of other
choices.
Fred.
Sid
wrote:
So you agree that your rebid would be 2S with a 5-bagger while you, in
fact, have A-K-x for partner in his suit?
Sid
boblipton
> "boblipton" <boblip...@nyc.rr.com> wrote in message
I disagree completely. Partner and I will support ith three cards
UNLESS stuffing is outside the suit and idnicates a preference for
playing NT from the opener's hand. For example, with Kxx AJTxx xxx
AQ
the bidding goes 1H-2D-2NT, but reverse the spades and diamonds and
it's 1H-2D-3D every day of the year.
Bob
Art Hoffman
> Raija
(I'm responsible for the asterisks and the yikes comment above.)
Oh, c'mon. Never is too long a time for me. For me, raising diamonds on
AKx is normal. (Support with support) If partner only has 4 diamonds, he's
(or she's) got spades too. It's that simple. OTOH, if partner is fooling
around in an uncontested 2/1 auction, all bets are off and she can start
looking for a new partner. I'm just not up to those shenanigans.