Interviews by an Optimist # 28 - Kevin Wilson
tomv...@gmail.com
After graduating from UC Berkeley with a degree in Artificial
Intelligence, Kevin went to work for Alderac Entertainment Group for
several years designing RPGs (including 7th Sea and Spycraft). After
Spycraft, they parted ways, and he wound up with Fantasy Flight Games,
again designing RPG materials. After a while with them, Kevin got
interested in board games and started intensively studying them. After
pitching Magdar successfully, he made the move over to the board game
department, where he's since designed Arena Maximus, Mutiny!,
Warcraft: the Board Game and an expansion to it, and most recently,
Doom: the Board Game.
Tom: Kevin, as I look over the five games (and one expansion) that
you've designed, it seems obvious that theme is very important to you.
When designing a game, do you start with the theme and try to match the
mechanics - or what?
Kevin: Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Magdar, for example, was designed
from the basic mechanic of having a disintegrating board. Warcraft and
Doom, on the other hand, as licensed products, were necessarily
theme-first. I prefer working from a theme, but if I get a good idea
for a mechanic, then I'll build a theme around it.
For me, the theme of a board game is sort of like its sales pitch. When
I tell you I've made a game based on Doom, for instance, you think of a
marine running through corridors and shooting monsters. If the theme
isn't delivered, the audience is going to get upset, since they've been
sold on a game that isn't actually in the box.
Mechanics, on the other hand, are the designer's interpretation of the
theme. The designer's style comes through in the same way that an
artist's style colors his paintings. Think of all the still life
paintings of fruit you've seen, and just how different these paintings
can be from one another. Now think of all the board games you've seen
about, say, the colonization of the Mediterranean or Europe.
So to me, a great game is a marriage of a theme that excites me and a
set of mechanics that I'm proud of. Naturally, my definition of these
changes over time, as my tastes evolve and I acquire skill and
experience; but there's some key element in all of my games that I
love, or I would never have designed them.
Tom: Kevin, do you spend a majority of your time designing at Fantasy
Flight, or do you have other duties there also?
Kevin: Actually, design work is only maybe 50% of my job. The biggest
unseen part of my job is probably the component development I do.
Working with Darrell Hardy, I try to plan out the most attractive
physical package for each game and still bring it in under budget.
That's probably the part of my job where I've seen the most improvement
- just compare the games I was putting together even a year ago to
Doom, and I think you'll agree.
Other than that, I work up budgets, try to answer rules questions when
I can, and review games that have been submitted to us for publication.
I also have to make prototypes as necessary. Worse yet, I've had to
make entire mockups of games to send to store buyers/licensors in the
past. The 3 handcrafted copies of Warcraft we put together just about
did me in, and is a good reminder of why nobody else in the office gets
to touch my left-handed scissors. If something happens to them, I'm
practically crippled. So, a lot of my job is pretty mundane, but that's
okay, since it makes the cool stuff stand out more.
Tom: People I've gamed with have commented lately on how much better
Fantasy Flight components are in your most recent games - some of them
absolutely astounding. What things differently happened over the last
year that precipitated these changes?
Kevin: A couple of things, really. First was our continuing
dissatisfaction with the quality of the components in the earlier
batches of Silver line games. They weren't bad, but we felt we could
do better. Second was increasing competition in the board game
marketplace, particularly from such production wizards as Days of
Wonder. We knew we wanted to improve our components to the point where
other game companies were trying to keep up with us; we just had to
figure out how. Darrell Hardy became a full-time production manager
about this time, and he tracked us down a couple of manufacturers who
could make anything we could describe to them; and since then, we've
been making big strides in component quality with every new game. I
think that everyone will be floored at some of the stuff we've got
coming this year.
Tom: Can you discuss in a bit of detail what exactly goes into the
process of a new board game at FFG?
Kevin: Well, that depends if it's an in-house design or a freelance
design. Freelance designs are simpler, since the guts of the game are
already in place. We test them for game play and balance, make any
adjustments we feel are necessary, and then start formalizing the
rules. Graphics starts work on the layout of the components, while I or
another developer writes up the rules and lays them out. Then, once
that's all done, it goes through a rigorous editing process before
being sent off to the printer. Granted, each step of that process takes
a lot more time than it sounds like, but that's the gist of it.
In-house designs are the same, except that they have the added step of
design at the front end, and much more playtesting. They're a lot more
work, but sometimes it's the fastest way to get a game done, such as
when we're working with a licensor.
Tom: What's the most difficult aspect of designing games, in your
opinion?
Kevin: Making them feel new and original. There's nothing worse than
dredging up an innovative mechanic out of the depths of your skull and
having the first person you show it to yawn and say, "Oh, THAT old
chestnut? That was used in 12 games back in '01, and 3 of them even
used the same theme as you."
<moving into how I try to improve my designs now...topic drift in
3...2...1...>
Obviously, I've tried to familiarize myself with as many games as I can
to avoid this. At the moment my collection is up to 150 games,
including all the Spiel des Jahres and Deutcher SpielePreis winners.
I've studied these games to try and learn what works and what doesn't
work in each of them; and when a rules set is particularly
well-written, I try to figure out why.
I also like to talk with my friend and fellow game designer Eric Lang
about game design whenever he's up from Canada (yes, up, don't ask).
We've been discussing the topic for a while now, and some interesting
vocabulary has evolved out of it. Here are a few examples:
"Hurrah! moment" - That moment when all the random factors come
together for a player, and he pulls out a stunning victory against all
the odds, usually leading to a big cheer from the group.
"Little Jackpot" and "Big Jackpot" - A little jackpot is a small reward
paid out in the middle of a game, while a big jackpot is a large reward
paid out at the end of a game. I've been finding that the best games
use both of these. Ticket to Ride is a good example. You receive little
jackpots as you lay out trains during the game, and at the end you
receive a big jackpot when you cash in your tickets (well, hopefully).
"Game Ritual" - This one is totally Eric's invention. He uses it to
refer to the actions that players repeat over and over again through
the course of the game. For Doom, the game ritual for the marines is to
discuss their plans with each other, move their marines, and roll the
dice. This is the thing those players do over and over. As designers,
we always try to make sure that the game ritual is fun and
entertaining, because that's a large part of what players are going to
judge the game on.
Tom: Can you tell us any information on upcoming projects from Fantasy
Flight?
Kevin: We've got Arkham Horror coming out in a few months. After that,
we've got Descent: Journeys in the Dark, which is a big
dungeon-crawling fantasy game building off of the system from Doom.
Descent is probably the project I'm on this year that has me the most
excited, since my roots are in fantasy RPG design. We also will be
releasing reprints of several games, including Fury of Dracula, Through
the Desert, and Warrior Knight. Finally, the big license for the moment
is the World of Warcraft board game.
Tom: Can you give us any details on Arkham Horror?
Kevin: Sure, I know people are chomping at the bit for details on that
one; and hey, it's been a long time coming, so I can't blame them. At
its core, the new Arkham Horror is much the same as the original.
Investigators in the city of Arkham journey around the city, visiting
locations and having horrific encounters while they try to seal the
dimensional gates that are opening up everywhere. However, almost 20
years have passed since the first edition was released, so we needed to
make some substantial changes to the mechanics to prepare it for
today's game market. Perhaps the biggest and most innovative change was
to the skill system.
In all of the existing 'adventure' boardgames I've seen, skills are a
fixed value. That is, a specific character is either good or bad at
each type of skill in the game, and that's it unless items are found to
increase the skill. However, it is usually the case that players aren't
given enough ways to avoid having to use the skills their character is
bad at, so things start to devolve into a luckfest. In the new edition
of Arkham, players can have their characters 'focus' on and improve
different skills at different times. This allows the player some degree
of control, as he can put his attention towards the skills he thinks he
is most likely to need this turn. Granted, the player is still not
entirely sure what skills he'll need each turn, but he can plan for
some contingencies, and an experienced player becomes more and more
able to predict what he'll need next.
Another interesting aspect of the game was actually borrowed from CCGs
(no, not collectibility, calm down), or perhaps more accurately, Cosmic
Encounter. In the original edition, Cthulhu and the other Great Old
Ones weren't as big a deal as I felt they should have been. In the new
edition, they're the ultimate objective of the game. At the start of
the game, a deck of 8 'Ancient Ones' (FFG's term for all of the god
creatures in the mythos) is shuffled up and one is picked at random.
This Ancient One affects the rules of the game, usually all game long.
For instance, Ithaqua causes an unnatural blizzard to strike the city
of Arkham, making it dangerous for characters to end their turns
outside. Cthulhu, on the other hand, lowers the characters' maximum
sanity and stamina by 1, making it easier for them to go insane or get
knocked unconscious. These powers affect the way the investigators have
to play so substantially that it's almost like having 8 different games
to play. Should too many gates open up in Arkham, the Ancient One
awakens, and the investigators all gang up for one last ditch effort to
try and stop it. Of course, if the Ancient One wakes up, the
investigators usually only have a slim chance of winning, so they want
to close all the gates instead if they can.
There were a lot of other changes made to the specifics of the game to
make it easier to understand, quicker to play, and more story-oriented
than ever, but suffice it to say that the game has undergone
significant changes. We'll have the rules online sometime in the next
few weeks so that folks can judge for themselves.
As for the physical components, I think players are going to be
extremely pleased. We've used some of the best art from our CCG and
ordered some new art to really bring the mythos to life. There are on
the order of 300 or so cards in the game, large reference sheets for
each of the 16 different investigators (each with their own unique
special ability) and 8 Ancient Ones, a board as big as the one in the A
Game of Thrones boardgame (with an awesome view of the city of Arkham
and full-color art for each location and Other World), and a heaping
helping of cardboard tokens and markers (including around 60 large
full-color monster tokens with their abilities printed right on them).
The quality of the components will be familiar to fans who have A Game
of Thrones, Doom: the Boardgame, or Twilight Imperium 3rd Edition.
In any event, I believe that it should be out in mid-May to mid-June,
depending on the vagaries of shipping, and I'm really looking forward
to seeing how folks react to it. I think that it pushes the
German/American hybrid style of design off in yet another direction
that hasn't been explored much yet, and I think that boardgame fans
(and Lovecraft fans in particular) are really going to enjoy it.
Tom: Warcraft and Doom are both excellent conversions of computer
games to board games. Did you find these conversions easier than
normal designs; or were they more difficult, knowing that you had a
rabid fan base to deal with?
Kevin: They weren't any harder to deal with than your average licensed
property. I've found that most video game franchise fans are pretty
reasonable about conversions if you just keep the core assumptions of
the franchise the same and adapt it to the medium you're working with.
So, Doom: the board game is about running around a maze of corridors on
Mars and shooting demonic invaders; but it adds the elements of
teamwork, gives each marine individual strengths, and adds an invader
player to affect the environment in various ways to surprise the
marines (sort of like being a level designer working for id). These
elements aren't in the video game Doom, at least not directly, but fans
enjoy them because they're a new way to experience a familiar setting.
You don't want to deviate so far from the video game that it becomes an
entirely new game, but you want enough difference to give players a
reason to play both the video game and the board game.
Tom: Are there any expansions planned for Doom? The game certainly
seems to be an excellent candidate for expansion.
Kevin: Yeah, we've got one on the schedule for later this year and
I've put some thought into the topic in my spare time. I'm thinking it
would most likely have a number of additional monsters from Doom 3
(I've been watching the online community to see what monsters they want
the most), some new marine cards, demonic and airless room tiles,
printed versions of the difficulty cards, and another campaign, among
other things. Adding more marines may be problematic, but I've been
thinking on how it could be done, so maybe that will be possible too.
Tom: One thing that has impressed me with your games is that you
include the rules for the game on your website before the game is
released. What are the benefits and drawbacks of doing this?
Kevin: Well, the benefits generally greatly outweigh the drawbacks.
Posting rules online allows players to get an early look at the game,
which has generated a lot more enthusiasm than disappointment for us.
It also allows folks to print out and pass around the rules to their
gaming friends, so that if there's a game they're extremely excited to
play, they can have the rules learned by the time it arrives in stores
and immediately get to playing. Finally, there are the customer
service benefits. Sometimes games get packed out a bit wrong, and the
worst is when the rules don't get included. Well, if the rules are
online, then the customer can still play while waiting for replacement
rules from us (which admittedly, don't take that long to arrive, but
it's the principle of the thing.) The one real drawback I've seen is
that, for some games, looking at the rules in a vacuum just doesn't cut
it. They might have a lot of their rules on their components or in the
scenarios, or the impact of the total package might be lost. Doom, for
instance, doesn't look like much if all you have is the rulebook to go
from, since the rules are very simple. Without the dice, the cards, the
miniatures, and the scenario guide, you don't really get the full
impact of the game. When looking at rules online, it's important to
remember that they are only a part of the equation that makes a game
great.
Tom: Is there a method to releasing information about a game (other
than the rules)? How long must a project be kept "secret", and what
are the reasons why?
Kevin: Well, there are a couple of different reasons you'd hold
information back. One, you have a great new platform/mechanic for a
game that you don't want to get 'scooped' on. We don't worry about that
too much; since by the time we're ready to give out information, it's
too late for any competitor to jump in anyway. Two, you're too busy to
get to it. That's more frequently a problem, since by the time (for
instance) that it's time for me to start letting out Arkham Horror
info, I'm already deep in the bowels of the next game, so I have to
slip that sort of thing into my normal schedule. Finally, there's
controlling the buzz. Ideally, you don't want people to get excited
about a game too long in advance of its release. Buzz can only sustain
itself so long in most cases, so you want to kind of take it easy until
you know that fans will soon be able to hold the game in their hands.
But really, I'm not a marketing major, so that's as close to a science
as I get with previews. Mostly, you just try to keep the fans happy and
try to prevent frustrating situations from arising as much as possible.
Tom: Are there any marketing great things or errors that you've done
in the past that you've learned from?
Kevin: Nothing really stands out, sorry. I focus more on the game end
of things than the sales end.
Tom: I saw your name as one of the playtesters for Twilight Imperium
3. What was that like?
Kevin: Well, basically we'd start in the afternoon and stay late after
work and play until folks had to go home. It was okay though; we got
free pizza, a sure sign of a great playtest. :) Towards the end of each
evening we'd have a discussion period and talk about what was working
and what wasn't. Then, Chris would go back and make changes before the
next playtest, and we'd do it all over again.
Tom: Mutiny has some very similar characteristics to Fist of
Dragonstones. Did that game influence your design of Mutiny?
Kevin: Absolutely. Fist of Dragonstones was one of the first boardgames
I discovered on my own and got really excited about. It's a fun design
and a classy production. Bruno Faidutti in general is an inspiration to
me, with lots of intriguing designs that make me want to think, "Hmm,
how would I have approached that design?" As for the similarities, the
rum in Mutiny is pretty much directly inspired by the fairy gold from
Fist of Dragonstones, and the pirate roles are a nod to Citadels. I was
really pleased to hear that he liked it, since it had several roots in
his work.
Tom: Are the majority of your games designed solely by you, or do you
work with a team?
Kevin: It varies. Some games are more mine than others. Sometimes I'm
given a loose goal and work to meet it, while other times I'm given a
very specific design feature to work with. Both methods have their own
challenges and rewards. I'm a bit of a loner, so I best enjoy solo
projects with the ability to talk to others if I get stuck. I've
learned that sometimes your best ideas can come from designing to spec,
though, so I always try to give every project my best work, no matter
where the idea came from.
Tom: How often do you playtest your games and with how many different
groups?
Kevin: This is gonna sound evasive to some, but I can't really help
that. I playtest as often as I can, with as many different groups as
possible. Ultimately, it varies by project. I feel that playtesting is
extraordinarily important, and I always try to get as much done as a
project's timetable allows for. It's never enough, though, no matter
how hard you try. That's one of the great disappointments of game
design, I feel. No matter how many problems you catch, there are always
unexpected issues in any game of sufficient complexity and size. There
gets to be a combinatorial explosion that works against a perfect
release unless you have the luxury of many months or even years of
playtesting. I work hard to ensure that every game is well-balanced and
delivers an enjoyable play
experience, but it's always a race against time.
That's why it's important to not only playtest as much as possible,
it's also important to provide after-sales support. FAQs, errata, and
free web enhancements demonstrate to the customer that you're not
leaving them high and dry once you've got their money. These things are
a commitment to stand by the quality of your products and own up to
mistakes when necessary, and the vast majority of gamers seem to
appreciate that.
Tom: What benefits do you, as a designer, have from working solely for
one company.
Kevin: Well, a steady paycheck, for one thing. But really, my main job
is as a developer. The design work is more exciting and often the thing
that gets me noticed, but I've had some very satisfying development
experiences: Game of Thrones and Arkham Horror, for instance. Both
turned out better than I had hoped, and the physical package was there
to bring home the game experience.
Another nice thing about working with a single company is that I know
the people I work for pretty well now, and there's a lot more of an
open door to any game ideas I might have. After all, I'm a known
quantity with a past record of success. As trust develops, there's more
freedom to pursue artistic expression. A similar relationship can take
years of freelancing to establish, or may never be reached at all.
Tom: With the vast amount of games coming out from Fantasy Flight -
your 2005 array is staggering! - how do you keep yourself from mixing
the games up in your head? Do mechanics from the different games tend
to merge at all?
Kevin: Fortunately, I'm not the only designer/developer. Christian
deals with a fair amount of the games as well, and some of them are
just distribution deals; so I really don't have to do much for those.
If I was solely responsible for that list of games, I'd be in trouble.
Tom: I've heard that the game Descent is using the Doom system. So is
this going to basically be a similar game to Doom, but rather using a
fantasy setting?
Kevin: More or less. It's a revised/expanded Doom system, so it
features a new version of the one-roll combat system (with no random
ammo loss and an element that lets your characters' skills count
without any modifiers), tons more skill cards for the heroes than the
marines had, stricter limitations on the bad guy player (the Overlord),
and a different way of scaling the dungeons for different numbers of
players. There are also more miniatures (about 100, if all goes well),
more dice, more cardboard, etc. This game will be significantly larger
than Doom, and it will have 9 scenarios with it instead of 5. I'm
hoping to distill the fantasy roleplaying experience into a boardgame
that can be played in 2-4 hours with very little preparation time.
I'm hoping that Descent becomes a gateway game like Heroquest was in
its time, encouraging a new generation of gamers to try out boardgaming
and roleplaying. Of course, if all it manages is to be a lot of fun, I
think I'll be able to live with that too. ;)
Tom: Thanks for partaking in this interview, Kevin! Any last words
for our readers?
Kevin: Yes, I'd like to thank everyone who has played and enjoyed my
games. You guys are letting me make a living designing and developing
games, and I'm profoundly grateful for the opportunity!
Tom Vasel
"Real men play board games."
April, 2005
Congressman Thompson
Are these archived anywhere?
Thompson