Lord Of The Rings boardgames?
Andreas Koch
are dealing with the Lord Of The Rings theme by J.R.R.Tolkien?
Aeons ago (-1984), there was a large game made by SPI that enabled
players to recreate the trilogy (if I remember correctly, maybe
someone else knows more). Any info is appreciated!
Andreas Koch
--
Andreas Koch Email : ko...@eis.cs.tu-bs.de
Institut f"ur theoretische Informatik Phone : x49-531-391-2384
Abteilung Entwurf Integrierter Schaltungen Phax : x49-531-391-5840
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Sullys Maze
that dealt with the war in Tolkien's trilogy. It had a few minor
correctable holes in the tables, etc. but was a good shot at it.
Smaller 'tactical' games were also created, one called 'Gondor'
about the seige of Minas Tirith and one: Sauron, about the battle
that ended the second age, between Sauron and the forces of
Gil-Galad and Elendil. Gondor, I never much cared for, Sauron: I've
been trying to adapt to my liking to no avail.
All three games are sometimes presented in one set. I've seen
War of the Ring here in game auctions for between $15-40 depending
on condition. I've yet to see the two smaller scenarios for sale
here in a few years, though they've often been included in the main
game, adding ~$10 to the price.
Gamescape of San Francisco/Palo Alto Ca. has used copies for $40-50.
Mike
co...@shaman.nexagen.com
Iron Crown Enterprises has come out with the Lonely Mountain, The Battle of
Five Armies, and the Fellowship of the Ring, all of which are boardgames not
related to MERP. Of them all, Fellowship is probably the best. All are quite
old, and unfortunately, probably pretty hard to get ahold of.
I used to work in the ICE office (now I work for them freelance), and I
suspect that there might be a copy of Fellowship around somewhere that they
might sell, although I'm not making any promises. The phone number there is
804-295-4280 (there is a customer service number, 1-800-325-0479, but since you
are outside the US, I don't think it will work).
Good luck
Monte Cook
co...@shaman.nexagen.com
Mech Eng Student
I Know the game you mean. My Uncle has it but has lost the cards. He also got two free Wargames with it (A special offer) which were the seige of Gondor and the Battle of Something or other fields (you know, when sauron lost the ring)
I'll see if I can find some more info out for you. Its unfortunately out of print.
TTFN
Roderick Easton
2nd year Student Edinburgh University SCOTLAND
Bruno Wolff III
] What boardgames (_not_ role-playing games like MERP)
] Aeons ago (-1984), there was a large game made by SPI that enabled
] players to recreate the trilogy (if I remember correctly, maybe
] someone else knows more). Any info is appreciated!
I have the War of the Ring and two related games.
The War of the Rings is interesting but needs a lot of work. The Nazgul are
very wimpy. The full game is pointless to play since it takes a lot longer
than the character only game, but has little affect on the outcome. This is
mostly because seiges take very long compared to what is going on with the
characters. It is a good idea to get Gandalf killed, since you know he will
comeback as the better Gandalf the white.
There were a couple of different versions of the rule book. My roommate's
copy had some stuff to try and keep the Nazgul from being really pitifull.
I haven't done a lot with the other two games, but while looking at the one
where Sauron loses the ring we noticed a problem with the victory conditions.
The Sauron forces can win (but not decisively) by not bringing on any
reinforcements, since the won't be enough units to be destroyed for the good
side to win.
CASPER,DAVI./PPE
>From article <1993Jan23....@ips.cs.tu-bs.de>, by ko...@eis.cs.tu-bs.de (Andreas Koch):
>] What boardgames (_not_ role-playing games like MERP)
>] are dealing with the Lord Of The Rings theme by J.R.R.Tolkien?
>] Aeons ago (-1984), there was a large game made by SPI that enabled
>] players to recreate the trilogy (if I remember correctly, maybe
>] someone else knows more). Any info is appreciated!
>]
>I have the War of the Ring and two related games.
>The War of the Rings is interesting but needs a lot of work. The Nazgul are
>very wimpy. The full game is pointless to play since it takes a lot longer
>than the character only game, but has little affect on the outcome. This is
>mostly because seiges take very long compared to what is going on with the
>characters. It is a good idea to get Gandalf killed, since you know he will
>comeback as the better Gandalf the white.
Yeah, I once (ten years ago) made up about 20 pages of corrections to SPI's
War of the Ring.
Actually, I thought the Nazgul were a bit too powerful, since they can easily
track the Fellowship of the Ring. The way the game was set-up, the Nazgul could
all be waiting on the eastern side of Moria and there would be a massive battle
which might go either way. Basically, it seemed to turn into a battle of
character attrition.
In the army game, it was possible to show mathematically that the Dark Power
did not receive enough shadow points to move forces to all the places needed
for a military victory and attack them. Contrast this to the situation in the
book where the military situation was supposed to make Desert Storm look like
a even fight.
Also, sieges could drag on for months with extremely light losses - whereas the
sieges in the book lasted matters of hours (Helm's Deep) or days (Minas Tirith).
Also, the Dark Power could stack orcs and Nazgul throughout Mordor, making a
destruction of the ring well-nigh impossible.
In short, the game, despite being a good starting point, as you say needed a
lot of work. The 'historical' realities were reversed - Dark Power military
victory and Fellowship ring victory were both hopeless.
Aside from a lot of 'flavor' type rules, the main things I would fix are:
1) Hidden movement. Absolutely necessary.
2) Shadow points. The Dark Power needs many more. I figured about 3 extra per
turn, which is about a 30-40% increase.
3) Siege combat. The ability to withdraw from siege combat after one round
makes sieges last far too long. Make siege combat last a number of rounds
equal to the attacker's leadership advantage, including sorcery effects (but
always at least 1 round). Even this may not be enough, but at least it means
Minas Tirith will fall quickly to the Lord of the Nazgul if Gandalf isn't there.
4) Victory Conditions. Tolkien points out on many occasions that Sauron's
uncertainty over the aims of the West was the major factor in the success of
the quest. But in the game, Sauron always knows and expects that an attempt
will be made to destroy the ring. It seems to me that the only way to recreate
this uncertainty, other than by massive and unwieldy restrictions on what
Sauron can do, is to allow the West to attempt the kind of victory that Sauron
thought they were going for. In other words, allow Aragorn, Gandalf, and
perhaps the Gondorians to claim the ring and use it to defeat Sauron militarily.
The game's rules prohibit this, since use of the ring quickly turns the user
into a mindless slave. In the book though, Tolkien continually emphasized that
the likes of Gandalf or Aragorn could have used the ring and become Sauron's
equal or near-equal. I'd allow the Fellowship to decide before the game,
secretly, whether to go for a ring victory or military victory. If they go for
military victory, allow the more powerful western characters to use the ring
without suffering its ill effects (at least within the time-frame of the game).
The ring should confer much greater army combat benefits, as well as reducing
Sauron's power once it is claimed by one of the powerful Westerners.
In this way, the Dark Power player would have to weigh the dangers of putting
too much effort into finding Hobbits and the strategy of military decoy leading
up to the Battle Before The Gate would be viable.
I realize that turning Gandalf into a new Dark Lord won't sit well with some
Tolkien fans, but I think it would improve the game.
In fact, frequently I think many games suffer from the same problem of each
side knowing the other's objectives in advance. In many cases, a side's
objectives only become clear as their own actions reveal them, within a much
larger scope of potential objectives. I can't think of many historical games
that incorporate this element - only Wacht Am Rhein (Battle of the Bulge
monster) comes to immediately to mind.
Dave
Gordon Holcomb
>In short, the game, despite being a good starting point, as you say needed a
>lot of work. The 'historical' realities were reversed - Dark Power military
>victory and Fellowship ring victory were both hopeless.
>
Huh? When I played, I thought the Fellowship ring victory was pretty
easy; you simply get every available charactor to the volcano, fight
every Dark Lord character, and then throw the ring in. We added some
bit about having to roll your ring rating at the end to throw it in, but
there was usually a hobbit left to toss it in. The dark lord had to get
lucky early, or at least attrition some of the followship characters off
to have a chance at winning.
It was still fun, but the last time I hauled it out to play, it seemed
very dated.
Gordon
Andy Lipscomb
Check out rec.games.diplomacy; there are currently two games in that style with
Middle Earth as the setting.
| Andy Lipscomb
--+-- lipscoja@(ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu,vuctrvax.bitnet)
| Don't blame me, I voted Libertarian.
| disclaimer.standard
Chris Scogings
[a lot of very worthwhile stuff deleted]
>Aside from a lot of 'flavor' type rules, the main things I would fix are:
>1) Hidden movement. Absolutely necessary.
>2) Shadow points. The Dark Power needs many more. I figured about 3 extra per
>turn, which is about a 30-40% increase.
We said that the DP need not spend shadow points for searching (otherwise
Nazgul tend to get stuck in strange places because there are no SP's to
bring them back). And that the DP need not spend SP's on moving Southron
forces - there are vague insinuations in the book that the Southrons were
not as totally controlled by Sauron as the orcs.
>3) Siege combat. The ability to withdraw from siege combat after one round
>makes sieges last far too long. Make siege combat last a number of rounds
>equal to the attacker's leadership advantage, including sorcery effects (but
>always at least 1 round). Even this may not be enough, but at least it means
>Minas Tirith will fall quickly to the Lord of the Nazgul if Gandalf isn't there.
Definitely. We said 3 rounds, minimum.
>4) Victory Conditions. Tolkien points out on many occasions that Sauron's
>uncertainty over the aims of the West was the major factor in the success of
>the quest. But in the game, Sauron always knows and expects that an attempt
>will be made to destroy the ring. It seems to me that the only way to recreate
>this uncertainty, other than by massive and unwieldy restrictions on what
>Sauron can do, is to allow the West to attempt the kind of victory that Sauron
>thought they were going for. In other words, allow Aragorn, Gandalf, and
>perhaps the Gondorians to claim the ring and use it to defeat Sauron militarily.
>The game's rules prohibit this, since use of the ring quickly turns the user
>into a mindless slave. In the book though, Tolkien continually emphasized that
>the likes of Gandalf or Aragorn could have used the ring and become Sauron's
>equal or near-equal. I'd allow the Fellowship to decide before the game,
>secretly, whether to go for a ring victory or military victory. If they go for
>military victory, allow the more powerful western characters to use the ring
>without suffering its ill effects (at least within the time-frame of the game).
>The ring should confer much greater army combat benefits, as well as reducing
>Sauron's power once it is claimed by one of the powerful Westerners.
This is an excellent idea. Well done! My group is going to have a rematch
immediately, using this proposed rule.
Chris
Never try to teach a pig to sing
It wastes your time and annoys the pig
- Robert Heinlein
Jonathan Arnold
>>From article <1993Jan23....@ips.cs.tu-bs.de>, by ko...@eis.cs.tu-bs.de (Andreas Koch):
>that incorporate this element - only Wacht Am Rhein (Battle of the Bulge
>monster) comes to immediately to mind.
One other game that does this quite effectively is Von Borries(sp?)
North African game (I'll be darned if I can remember the name of it -
it was originally in a Wargamer mag). In fact, even the German player
doesn't know his goals until part way through the game, when he picks
one of three chits which explain it. Then the Allied player has an
increasing chance of revealing it by using the "decoder ring".
+=================================+================================+
| Jonathan Arnold | Interleaf, Inc. |
| jdar...@ileaf.com | Prospect Place |
| Home: (617)335-5457 | 9 Hillside Avenue |
| Bus: (617)290-4990 x5489 | Waltham, MA 02154 |
+=================================+================================+
do...@abby.chem.ucla.edu
>are dealing with the Lord Of The Rings theme by J.R.R.Tolkien?
>Aeons ago (-1984), there was a large game made by SPI that enabled
>players to recreate the trilogy (if I remember correctly, maybe
>someone else knows more). Any info is appreciated!
Yes, there's "War of the Ring" (which is the one you are referring to
specifically). There are also two other SPI (out of print, of course) games
called "Gondor" and "Sauron." I know of two Hobbit-based games published by
Iron Crown Enterprises (don't know if they're still in print or not), called
"The Lonely Mountain" and "The Battle of Five Armies." I vaguely recall seeing
one called "The Fellowship of the Ring," but I don't know who makes that one
and doubt it is still in print.
-Doug Gibson
do...@abby.chem.ucla.edu
Neither UCLA nor the National Science Foundation has a clue what I am doing.
They just pay me to do it.
"We have to tear you to shreds because we care." - EAC
Michael Schwuchow
Its theme is the way of the hobbits toward the fire-mountain.
There are nine black ringwraiths, nine black orcs and one black gollum in
play, who all stand at least in the way.
Additionally with some moves, the board itself will change.
(It is made out of 19 patterns, which can be turned)
In the first part, the up to four players have to cooperate to move the
enemies out of the way. In the second part, that player will win, who's
Halfling arrives first at the "Schicksalskluefte", while a randomly
chosen card shows, that he has the ring in this turn.
Its a nice game, but I can't imagine any winning strategy. That's because
the ways on the board are really twisted and additionally are retwisted,
whenever one pattern is turned.
Greetings, Micha
--
! Michael Schwuchow Oldenburg, FRG/RFA/BRD UUCP: schw...@uniol.UUCP !
-Autofahren ist asozial: Mit anderen Verkehrsmitteln kommt man gesuender,-
-umweltschonender, kommunikativer, platzsparender, volkswirtschaftlich -----
-billiger, und (mit Finanzbedarfszeitaufwand) meist schneller ans Ziel. ----
Dan Peters
> I vaguely recall seeing
>one called "The Fellowship of the Ring," but I don't know who makes that one
>and doubt it is still in print.
This one is by ICE. I don't know if it's still in print.
Drin
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I think I think, therefore I think I am."
- Descartes' failed attempt to discard the notion of objective reality.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Books
>Yes, there's "War of the Ring" (which is the one you are referring to
>specifically). There are also two other SPI (out of print, of course) games
>called "Gondor" and "Sauron." I know of two Hobbit-based games published by
>Iron Crown Enterprises (don't know if they're still in print or not), called
>"The Lonely Mountain" and "The Battle of Five Armies." I vaguely recall seeing
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>one called "The Fellowship of the Ring," but I don't know who makes that one
>and doubt it is still in print.
>
Is this the one where several different groups have to get in and steal
the treasure before Smaug wakes up? There is an interesting problem in
this one, they didn't account for someone killing Smaug. You have to
roll a 0 on 2d6, but Elves get +1 with bows and can get +1 arrows. I
killed Smaug the very first game we played. They declared me the winner
even though someone had escaped with more treasure.
Allan Wright
> do...@abby.chem.ucla.edu writes:
>
> > I vaguely recall seeing
> >one called "The Fellowship of the Ring," but I don't know who makes that one
> >and doubt it is still in print.
>
> This one is by ICE. I don't know if it's still in print.
I have a copy in reasonably good condition I bought used - can't coninnce
any of my friends to stop playing 1830 or Dune long enough to play it.
If you're interested - drop me an e-mail - I might let it go if the price
is right.
I'd definately trade it for a copy of 1830 that is in good playable
condition.
>
> Drin
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> "I think I think, therefore I think I am."
> - Descartes' failed attempt to discard the notion of objective reality.
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
===============================================================================
Allan Wright Jr. | Pole-Vaulters Get a Natural High! | GO Celts!
University of New Hampshire +--------------------------------------------------
Research Computing Center | You keep using that word. I do not think it means
Internet: A...@UNH.EDU | what you think it means. -The Princess Bride
===============================================================================
Ed Humble
writes:
> In article <1993Jan23....@ips.cs.tu-bs.de>, ko...@eis.cs.tu-bs.de
(Andreas Koch) writes:
> >What boardgames (_not_ role-playing games like MERP)
> >are dealing with the Lord Of The Rings theme by J.R.R.Tolkien?
> >Aeons ago (-1984), there was a large game made by SPI that enabled
> >players to recreate the trilogy (if I remember correctly, maybe
> >someone else knows more). Any info is appreciated!
>
> Yes, there's "War of the Ring" (which is the one you are referring to
> specifically). There are also two other SPI (out of print, of course) games
> called "Gondor" and "Sauron." I know of two Hobbit-based games published by
> Iron Crown Enterprises (don't know if they're still in print or not), called
> "The Lonely Mountain" and "The Battle of Five Armies." I vaguely recall
I played this one several times with a few years ago. If you're a big fan of
the hobbit, I highly recommend it. The artwork on the counters is great; each
army has it's own distinct color, and the Orcs are divided into tribes with
seperate color schemes. All your favorite characters are there, too, acting as
leaders to rally troops, and to apply their personal combat power to attacks.
Both the basic and advanced rules work well, though the advanced rules allow you
to roll rocks down onto your opponents' heads (my favorite tactic), and makes
the elves tougher for the orcs to handle.
>seeing
> one called "The Fellowship of the Ring," but I don't know who makes that one
> and doubt it is still in print.
>
>
> -Doug Gibson
> do...@abby.chem.ucla.edu
>
> Neither UCLA nor the National Science Foundation has a clue what I am doing.
> They just pay me to do it.
>
> "We have to tear you to shreds because we care." - EAC
========================================================================
Ed Humble | Iowa State University - Moo!
wehu...@iastate.edu | Dept. of Aerospace Engineering
| Grad (Professional) Student
========================================================================
"`Ecrasez l'infame.' I looked it up. What infamous thing do you wish to
eradicate?"
"What infamous thing have you got?"
========================================================================
Shadow
I've got a copy of ICE's The Fellowship of the Ring. I play it
occasionally and enjoy it. More often, though, I just steal the dice
from it (each unit is represented on the board by a six sided die instead
of using cardboard chits. Each die has a sticker attached on the '1'
side.) for use in Titan.
do...@abby.chem.ucla.edu
>In article <009673CD...@abby.chem.ucla.edu> do...@abby.chem.ucla.edu writes:
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[parts of my own posting deleted]
>
>Is this the one where several different groups have to get in and steal
>the treasure before Smaug wakes up? There is an interesting problem in
>this one, they didn't account for someone killing Smaug. You have to
>roll a 0 on 2d6, but Elves get +1 with bows and can get +1 arrows. I
>killed Smaug the very first game we played. They declared me the winner
>even though someone had escaped with more treasure.
>
>Roger
>bo...@fsunuc.physics.fsu.edu
Yup, that's the one. If I remember right, there were actually arrows that gave
up to +4, but I'm not sure on that one. I think that if Smaug was killed, you
still had to get out by a certain time, but again, I'm not sure. Perhaps I
have a newer version? Who knows.