Civil War
Chris Scogings
I recently played a game of Civil War (CW) as the Northern player and
found it most frustrating. The dice difference is often 1 or 2 and this
is too small to move a general of 3 (most of them) but you HAVE to spend
1 or 2 commands on something. It's quite common to get two or three of
these in a row so you end up frittering away your commands, 1 or 2 at a
time. Of course, you can get a reinforcement instead, but after a while
you don't have that many.
Another problem is just the lack of commands. If both players do not roll
the same number the turn ends with very little happening. Is this what is
meant to happen or am I missing something?
Can somebody help?
Chris
Dallace Unger
>Are any of the experts on Victory Games Civil War still out there?
>
>I recently played a game of Civil War (CW) as the Northern player and
>found it most frustrating. The dice difference is often 1 or 2 and this
>is too small to move a general of 3 (most of them) but you HAVE to spend
>1 or 2 commands on something. It's quite common to get two or three of
>these in a row so you end up frittering away your commands, 1 or 2 at a
>time. Of course, you can get a reinforcement instead, but after a while
>you don't have that many.
Play with the Far West option. This usually gives you some place to burn
the 1 and 2 point differences. Also, get Grant, Sherman and Lyon to some
place where they can do something. (Like leading an army.) Since they
have a 2 initative, they can move and operate on the differences to two.
>Another problem is just the lack of commands. If both players do not roll
>the same number the turn ends with very little happening. Is this what is
>meant to happen or am I missing something?
Yep. Then other turns take a long time. The idea for the Northern player
is a draw the turn out as long as possible, while the Southern player is
hoping it ends quickly. (Especial towards the end of the game. :-)
Dallace Unger
Donald Stone
Can somebody help?
Chris
That's what is meant to happen. You will probably only get to move a few of
your 3 leaders per turn. If you're lucky. And some turns will end quickly,
with very little happening. Other times, you'll get a couple of dice
differences of 6 (when you least want it).
This is THE real difference between a two and a three rated leader. Yes,
spending one less command point to move and/or undemoralize is useful, but
what is truly useful is that a 2 leader will move a LOT more often.
I find that you can do enough with the Union forces. Just not anywhere near
as much as you'd like.
--
Donald Stone (st...@cs.unc.edu)
Thomas A. Russ
I recently played a game of Civil War (CW) as the Northern player and
found it most frustrating. The dice difference is often 1 or 2 and this
is too small to move a general of 3 (most of them) but you HAVE to spend
1 or 2 commands on something. It's quite common to get two or three of
these in a row so you end up frittering away your commands, 1 or 2 at a
time. Of course, you can get a reinforcement instead, but after a while
you don't have that many.
Welcome to the Civil War, Mr. Lincoln! This is a deliberate design
decision on the part of VG. What you have run into is the frustration
of fighting a war with generals of mediocre (or worse) competence and
initiative. If you read the history, you will find that there were
sometimes long periods of time in which nothing much happened because
the Union Army was sitting in camp. The ability of the South to move
using fewer commands is the only way that they can survive against the
clear material superiority of the North.
The structure of the game is such that you will often have a number of
impulses with not much happening (dice difference of 1 or 2), with
occasional sweeping campaigns (dice difference of 8!). This mechanic
does provide a clever simulation of the ebb and flow of operations in
the Civil War without resorting to hideously complicated logistics and
command rules.
Another problem is just the lack of commands. If both players do not roll
the same number the turn ends with very little happening. Is this what is
meant to happen or am I missing something?
This is also meant to happen. Again, there were times when not much
occurred.
Can somebody help?
Chris
Tom
--
Thomas A. Russ t...@isi.edu
USC/ISI, 4676 Admiralty Way, Marina del Rey, CA 90292 (310) 822-1511
Peter Corless
--------------------------
Can somebody help?
Chris
-----------------------
You got it buddy! The two-point spreads with 3 point leaders are infuriating.
Four point leaders are even more untolerable. These were the kind of generals
that Lincoln kept BMW'ing about (BMW = "bitch, whine & moan"). The kind that
refuse to advance until they have ALL their ducks in a row, disregarded
orders on a whim, or generally thought more pessimistically about their
chances, etc. As opposed to Jackson or Grant, who marched a hundred miles in
a few days at the drop of a hat...
So if you don't have a lot of these fantastic leaders? Make sure you use
your spreads effectively... If you get a four point spread, is it better to
move a three point leader and take a reinforcement, or move two three point
leaders? That's the kind of critical decision making that makes the game so
fascinating. It also helps the game play more like a real war... on some
occasions, a side finds a tremendous opportunity, and a flurry of activity
follows; other times, the war bogs down, while the opposing sides continue to
snipe and look for openings.
Remember, most of the war was filled with long stretches of inaction. The
great campaigns took time to build and develop. As the Union develops better
generalship, they'll get more 2 point leaders, and then the war really starts
rolling.
Try it a few more times. I think you'll find it worth the investment!
Richard D. Erwin
To garner some cash to expand my newsletter, _The Wargame
Collector's Journal_, I'm clearing the closet of those items I no
longer need.
There are three piles of stuff for sale. The first are auction
items, the second fixed price items, and the third stuff for
which I'll take the best offer. In all cases, the buyer is
responsible for postage.
AUCTION ITEMS
Updates of bids will be posted every three days. The prices
listed below are where bids will start.
$50 - Vicksburg (Rand): Mint, but the game tray is very thin and
not in the best shape. I'll include a West End game tray. The
rarest of the Rand/Morningside Games.
$100 - Red Sun/Black Cross (Ad Technos): Mint; includes English
rules. A much-desired Japanese game.
$80 - Jackson at the Crossroads/Battle of Corinth (SPI): Mint;
along with _Bloody April_, the toughest of the GBACW series to acquire.
$75 - La Bataille de Deutsch-Wagram (Marshall Enterprises):
Punched; excellent condition. Along with Austerlitz, the
toughest ME game to acquire.
$20 - Konningratz (Spence and Gable): Mint; excellent condition.
A tough to find item.
$70 - Bonaparte in Italy (OSG): Mint; excellent conditon.
$140 - Phoenix back issues 8, 9, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20,
21, 22, 23, 25. This was a very well-written, high-quality
production British wargaming magazine - if only today's Fire and
Movement could come as close!
$210 - Fire and Movement back issues 1 through 15. For those of
you who prefer F&M as it used to be, here it is!
$300 - Command Issues 1 through 9 (mint). I have extra copies of
10 through 16, also mint, if you're interested.
$35 - Viva Espana (Battleline): Mint; excellent condition.
$35 - Torgau (GDW): Punched; excellent condition.
FIXED PRICE ITEMS
$20 - Knights of Justice (WG #52): Mint, excellent.
$25 - Jerusalem! (SDC): Mint; excellent. This is the ORIGINAL
SDC version, with 1" counters and complete historical outline.
$15 - Command #5: Hamburger Hill/Operation Solace (mint).
$ 8 - Command #11: Hugomont (mint).
$ 7 - Command #15: Spartacus (mint).
$ 7 - Command #16: 1918 (mint).
$ 6 - Strategy & Tactics #147: Afghanistan (mint).
$ 6 - Wargamer #29: Lods 1914 (punched).
$12 - Wargamer #23: Decision at Kasserine (punched). The rules
are copied.
$12 - Wargamer #45: Custer's Luck (mint).
$15 - Ortona (Simulations Canada): Mint, excellent.
$ 7 - Dieppe (Simulations Canada): Mint, punched, slight tear on
box cover corner.
$ 6 - Mideast Peace (Columbia Games): Mint; excellent.
$25 - Bloody Roads South (The Gamers): Mint; Excellent.
$25 - Barren Victory (The Gamers): Mint; Excellent.
$25 - Omaha (The Gamers): Mint; Excellent.
$10 - Godsfire (Metagaming): Punched; Excellent.
$6 - Poland 1939 (Jagdpanther): Punched.
$18 - Flashpoint Golan (Victory Games): A handful of punched
counters. Excellent condition.
$25 - Operation Shoestring (GMT): Mint; excellent.
$20 - Airbridge to Victory (GMT): Mint; excellent.
$12 - Silver Bayonet (GMT): Mint; Smal crease on the edge of the
box cover.
BEST PRICE ACCEPTED ITEMS
Metagaming
-Command at Sea
-Olympia: The UN Raid on MArs
-Kung Fu 2100
-The Lords of Underearth
-OGRE
Dwarfstar Games
-Barbarian Prince
-Dragonrage
The Cultist
-Dark Cults
TSR
-They've Invaded Pleasantville
Task Force Games
-Moon Base Clavius
-Asteroid Zero-Four
-Valkenburg Castle
-Cerberus
Brian Gregory
> I recently played a game of Civil War (CW) as the Northern player and
> found it most frustrating. The dice difference is often 1 or 2 and this
> is too small to move a general of 3 (most of them) but you HAVE to spend
> 1 or 2 commands on something. It's quite common to get two or three of
> these in a row so you end up frittering away your commands, 1 or 2 at a
> time. Of course, you can get a reinforcement instead, but after a while
> you don't have that many.
IMHO, as in any good strategic level game, patience and planning are the
key to success. The main diff. between CW and (for example), PacWar/WiF
-where the US sits and watches the Japs mow down everthing for six months
to a year- is that you can't really plan WHEN you'll do these great attacks,
invasions, etc.. Much like the American political/military/industrial in
1861, things were *very* confused, and the rules reflect the difficulties
that the Lincolns, Grants, Lees and Davis' had getting logistical support for
their troops, and even getting those troops to fight!
Take reinforcements, both in SPs and in leaders, on those wimpy differential
rolls (don't forget the north has *lots* more leaders, and lots more lousy
ones). Stage troops up from the rear, you've got the RR capacity, and move
poor leaders that got placed in forward positions back to somewhere harmless
(I like to put them all with Fremont in St. Louis, since leaders get to RR
move without impacting RR capacity <-; ).
>
> Another problem is just the lack of commands. If both players do not roll
> the same number the turn ends with very little happening. Is this what is
> meant to happen or am I missing something?
> Chris
I believe the designers wanted to simulate the above-mentioned turbulent
state of American affairs. It wouldn't really be much of a challenge if
each player got to move & attack with all his troops every turn, would it? -
the North would steamroller to victory in a few turns! What I've found is
the law of averages works to your advantage (7, the most common roll, will
give you those extra commands if rolled by both players, yes?), so, on such
a turn you'll have more commands than you know what to do with, in fact
will probably end the turn (by another dup. roll) before using them all!
ATTACK (if the north), build your forts (if the south) THEN!
Use the more normal, in between turns, to build for your offensives and
occasionally execute them (recall most Naval actions will only require two
commands, once you've used 1 CP to locate naval leaders on your fleets!).
Some advice: I usually don't un-demoralize troops as the North (I've more
troops and so can afford losing 1 SP at EOT reorganization), conserving my
CPs for maintaining the initiative. I more-often will reorganize troops
as the South (better leaders, fewer CPs to rally, fewer troops to waste),
since much of my tactical movement can be accomplished by army reaction
movement (once they're judiciously placed). Once past GT 3, most armies
can be resupplied by using initiative points, and so the North uses its
CPs for offensives, and the South for building forts and counterattacking
(or using cavalry to cut off RR-supply routes). The player who best uses
his resources will win!
I imagine this would be very confusing if this were the first strat game
I'd played, but I find the system refreshing, exciting, challenging, and
pretty true to the difficulties faced by the leaders of that time. No
flame here, just a VG CW enthusiast trying to spread the word!
--
***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---***---
Brian Gregory ||"I only went out for a walk,
I-net: GREG...@CUBLDR.COLORADO.EDU || and finally concluded to stay till
ECE Graduate Student || sundown, for going out, I found,
Univ. of Colorado @ Boulder || was really going in." -- John Muir