RFD: rec.games.board.{deckmaster,marketplace}
Kirby Krueger
&
rec.games.board.deckmaster
After this RFD is posted on news.announce.newgroups, a pointer
to it will be posted on the gg...@wizards.com mailing list, a list
devoted to Wizard of the Coast's deckmaster games.
Same for the CFV, should this go to the CFV state.
This is a formal request for discussion for the following two groups:
rec.games.board.marketplace: auctions, sales, and trading of board games.
Charter: This group will be for the posting of auctions, sales, and
trading of the various games found in the rec.games.board heirarchy.
rec.games.board.deckmaster: discussion of competitive trading card strategy
games.
Charter: This group will be for the discussion of rules, card combinations,
timing questions, card text explanations, and all matters pertaining to
games like 'Magic: the Gathering' -- that is, collectible, trading card,
constructed deck, strategy games.
Namechoice: .marketplace is a UseNET standard.
rec.games.board.deckmaster seems to be the best choice among all the
options. Deckmaster, in this sense, refers not only to the line
of games by Wizards of the Coast that bear this name, but also to
similar games that other companies may put out in the future.
It belongs in the .board hierarchy due to the style of play; while
lacking a physical board, it is very much in the spirit of games
such as Illuminati or Wiz-War, which are often discussed in
rec.games.board. Thus making a clearer, more descriptive name as
to the nature of the games for those unfamiliar with them.
Why a group is needed:
Currently, traffic for Magic: The Gathering, the first Deckmaster game
published, is dominating rec.games.board. Many regulars there are
starting to complain at the high, and sustained, volume, which has not
declined since the game's initial release in August. With upcoming
expansions and deckmaster games in various states of production,
and with the recent release of the unlimited edition which will increase
availability, it seems likely that interest will increase in the future,
rather than decrease.
A mailing list does exist (gg...@wizards.com). However, traffic there
was averaging around 60 messages/day, before the volume caused the
mail gateway problems, and the list was forced into digest mode. Even
in that format, 1 or 2 750 line digests are sent out daily.
The alt.* heirarchy does not have sufficient propogation for our purposes;
traffic would continue to remain on rec.games.board due to those without
alt. access. And justification exists for making a mainstream group.
Does the group have a future?
Yes. Wizards of the Coast -currently- has 4 different deckmaster games
either already out (Magic: the Gathering), in playtesting (Jyhad, based
on White Wolf's _Vampire: the Masquerade_), or in various stages of
planning (A cyberpunk-theme, and a tolkein theme.) In addition, more
licenses are being contracted.
The Magic: the Gathering game has upwards of 300 different cards in the
set. Every two months or so, Wizards of the Coast has planned
a new expansion set of cards for the game, ranging anywhere from 70 to
more than 300 cards. Currently, Arabian Nights should be available
soon, and two new expansions are coming through February alone.
The Vampire game will also have periodic releases of expansion cards.
Policies have not been set for the rest of the games, yet.
As you can see, that's a lot of cards, and a lot of combinations, which
lead to an almost endless supply of questions. (It's been 4 months with
just 300, and there still are things coming up that we've never thought
of before.)
(Wizards of the Coast has stated that, if such a group is created, they
will support it, and have someone official monitoring it to answer
questions.)
In addition, I do not think it will be long before other game producers
'jump on the bandwagon' of this new style of game, producing their own
deckmaster-style game. (Consider that Magic sold a 'year's supply'
of cards in just -6- weeks!)
Thank you for your time in reading this RFD and PLEASE comment!
Sarah
sa...@eskimo.com
Steven (Weebles) Santiago
Here's my take:
rec.games.board.marketplace - where autions and sales go to die - VOTE: Yes
rec.games.board.deckmaster - Rules and discussion of Mtg-like games -
VOTE: No
I agree with the people that have been saying 'deckmaster' is too limited.
Something in the RFD set something off. Has anyone proposed naming a group
'rec.games.board.misc'?. The .misc is a USEnet standard, also.
Steve
ps. By the way, where are these votes supposed to go?
David Green
>rec.games.board.marketplace - where autions and sales go to die - VOTE: Yes
>
>rec.games.board.deckmaster - Rules and discussion of Mtg-like games -
> VOTE: No
>
>I agree with the people that have been saying 'deckmaster' is too limited.
>
>Something in the RFD set something off. Has anyone proposed naming a group
>'rec.games.board.misc'?. The .misc is a USEnet standard, also.
However, the .misc is usually used when there's a lot of subgroups and is
a catchall for things that don't fit into any of the subgroups. When there's
a large-scale group reorganization, the original group is usually renamed
to the .misc group, at least in the reorgs that I've seen. It doesn't seem
to me that having a .misc group and the r.g.b group both around would make a
lot of sense, unless r.g.b were renamed to something else, too. Personally,
I think r.g.b.deckmaster makes a lot of sense...
>ps. By the way, where are these votes supposed to go?
I don't think there's been a CFV yet, has there?
--
David Green
"A streetlamp dies, another night is over,
Another day is dawning..."
Brad Andrews
than rec.games.board.deckmaster.
---
Brad Andrews
rb...@cas.org
All opinions are strictly mine
Eric Derby
: I still think rec.games.board.trading-card would be better
: than rec.games.board.deckmaster.
I agree.
1) deckmaster is a trademark,
2) new clones will probably be on the market by next Christmas.
David H. Thornley
>Brad Andrews (rb...@cas.org) wrote:
>: I still think rec.games.board.trading-card would be better
>: than rec.games.board.deckmaster.
>
>I agree.
>1) deckmaster is a trademark,
>2) new clones will probably be on the market by next Christmas.
>
players won't look at the back of the cards where it says "DECKMASTER", while
they will realize that they're playing with cards they can collect and trade.
4) "Deckmaster" means very little unless you know something about the game
already. "Trading-card" gives a clue that the game is played with cards
that can be traded. Not much of a clue, but better than nothing.
I will vote in favor of either name, though.
DHT
Frederick Scott
>Something in the RFD set something off. Has anyone proposed naming a group
>'rec.games.board.misc'?. The .misc is a USEnet standard, also.
Why do you ask? I don't see any need for a rec.games.board.misc. Certainly,
it isn't the answer to the MtG group naming dilemna.
Is it? (If so, convince me.)
Fred
Markus Stumptner
>I still think rec.games.board.trading-card would be better
>than rec.games.board.deckmaster.
I agree.
---
Markus Stumptner m...@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at
University of Technology Vienna vexpert!m...@relay.eu.net
Paniglg. 16, A-1040 Vienna, Austria ...mcsun!vexpert!mst
Timothy M. Schreyer
|> I still think rec.games.board.trading-card would be better
|> than rec.games.board.deckmaster.
|>
even some MtG players might not know its a "Deckmaster" game (despite it
saying it on the back of each card). They might get Garfield Games, or
Wizards of the Coast, but I think "deckmaster" might be confusing. Also,
if and when similar trading card games come out, they may swamp
rec.games.board as MtG did, because people will not think to post to a
group called "deckmaster".
Nevertheless, I will vote for the group no matter what its name.
Tim
--
Timothy M. Schreyer sch...@vfl.paramax.com
Software Technology R&D (215) 648-2475
Unisys Government Systems Group FAX: (215) 648-2288
PO Box 517, Paoli, PA 19301
Larry Reeves
different reason. My preference for the name of the new group would
be rec.games.trading-card(s) instead of ...board... because it would
help encourage the distinction between the groups.
I don't think that the crossposting between the sport/nonsport card collectors
will be as likely as one poster pointed out because of the 'games' in the
group name. (However, I have been known to overestimate how much people pay
attention to written instructions :-)
I haven't yet decided whether I would vote for rgbd or not, so I am still
convincable. (Any offers? :-)
--
Larry Reeves Internet: lar...@cs.umr.edu
Computer Science Grad. Bitnet: larryr%cs.um...@umrvmb.bitnet
Univ. of Missouri-Rolla UUCP: ...!uunet!cs.umr.edu!larryr
Steffan O'Sullivan
>
>rec.games.board.trading-cards: I don't see the advantage of this over just
>rec.games.board.cards. It doesn't let games like Illuminati, etc, in, but
>does anyone really mind them that much?
Yes, I think it's important to separate those games that do not have
trading as an integral part. rec.games.board.cards is too eclectic,
for no good reason. Why should Up Front and MtG be discussed in the
same group just because both of them build a board with cards?
Otherwise, they have almost nothing in common. Better to leave Up
Front with rec.games.board discussions, where it belongs.
Thus I feel the only acceptable solution proposed so far is
rec.games.board.trading-cards
(with or without a final "s").
--
-Steffan O'Sullivan | "There are no grades of vanity,
| there are only grades of ability
s...@oz.plymouth.edu | in concealing it."
| -Mark Twain
simp...@skyfox.usask.ca
that would be used for board games? I suspect that rec.games.board.deckmaster
is the lesser of two evils. (Don't ask me what would be a better name, *I*
don't have one.)
P.S. Are we allowed to discuss this here in THIS area or should we be doing it
ONLY in the nesgroup dedicated to this sort of thing?
I'm James alias SIMP...@sask.usask.ca and I don't believe in SIGs because they
don't believe in me.
Bill Seurer
|> kru...@stein3.u.washington.edu (Kirby Krueger) writes:
|> >
|> >rec.games.board.trading-cards: I don't see the advantage of this over just
|> >rec.games.board.cards. It doesn't let games like Illuminati, etc, in, but
|> >does anyone really mind them that much?
|>
|> Yes, I think it's important to separate those games that do not have
|> trading as an integral part. rec.games.board.cards is too eclectic,
|> for no good reason. Why should Up Front and MtG be discussed in the
|> same group just because both of them build a board with cards?
|> Otherwise, they have almost nothing in common. Better to leave Up
|> Front with rec.games.board discussions, where it belongs.
|>
|> Thus I feel the only acceptable solution proposed so far is
|> rec.games.board.trading-cards
|>
|> (with or without a final "s").
I hate to disagree with you Steffan, but why should Up Front be discussed
in the same group as, say, Stratego? They have even less in common than
Up Front and MtG.
Face it. Any structure we come up with will not satisfy everyone and
fit some (many) games poorly. I personally would like to see lots of
rec.game.board.xxx's so I wouldn't have to have such a large killfile
to weed out all the A&A posts and such. But I don't expect it to
happen soon.
--
- Bill Seurer Language and Compiler Development IBM Rochester, MN
Business: BillS...@vnet.ibm.com Home: BillS...@aol.com
Roger M Kolaks
suggest rec.games.board.MtG or .magic
...rmk
Roger M Kolaks
Steffan O'Sullivan <s...@oz.plymouth.edu> wrote:
>
> Why should Up Front and MtG be discussed in the
>same group just because both of them build a board with cards?
>Otherwise, they have almost nothing in common.
>
Steffan,
Let me suggest that the *only* thing that Up Front and MtG don't have in
common is the trading of cards. Structurally the game are otherwise very
similar. And let me note that many MtG players do not engage in any
trading at all.
...rmk
Steffan O'Sullivan
> Let me suggest that the *only* thing that Up Front and MtG don't have in
>common is the trading of cards. Structurally the game are otherwise very
>similar. And let me note that many MtG players do not engage in any
>trading at all.
Nonetheless, it is a basic element of difference with all other games
discussed on r.g.b. My friend Bill Seurer also suggested that my
reasoning was inappropriate, because Stratego and Up Front would still
be discussed on r.g.b., and they have little in common.
What they have in common is that if I buy an Up Front game in New
Hampshire, and Bill buys one in Minnesota, we will, barring glitches at
AH, have the same sets of cards. I will not feel the need to go out
and buy a booster pack to get another pillbox card, nor trade my marsh
cards for hill cards. Likewise, a Stratego set I buy here will have
the same number of Scouts as a Stratego set bought anywhere else.
It is this very aspect of MtG and future clones that I feel should have
its own group: the trading-card aspect. This is why I support the name
rec.games.board.trading-cards.
The traffic warrants a separate group - I think most of us agree to
that. I confess pure selfishness in wanting to create a "trading card
game" group, as opposed to a "board games created with cards" group.
This is because the latter would do me no good at all. I am very
interested in many games that use cards to create the boards, so I
would still want to read such a group, and have to wade through an even
higher percentage of MtG posts to get anything worthwhile out of it. I
have no interest in trading card games (whether or not many folk don't
trade at all), so I could simply not subscribe to such a group and be
very happy.
While I'm being honest about my reasons, I also don't believe such a
group distinction hurts anyone at all. The MtG players should be happy
with it, as everybody will shut up about their game and they can post
in freedom from flames from non-MtG players. Fans of future such games
should also be happy about such a group. James Wallis should be happy
with such a group, as he wouldn't have to fight a thousand MtG posts to
get one Once Upon a Time post. Same with Illuminati, Hacker, Up Front,
Modern Naval Battles, etc., fans.
Frankly, I see it as a win-win situation, and can't understand the
opposition to it. Your post above, for example, seems to express
opposition to the idea, but gives me no clue why. Likewise, Bill
Seurer's post gives me no clue why he would think it's a poor choice
for a group name. I like and respect Bill, and value his opinions, but
still need to hear why on earth I should support putting all card-based
board games together, when it can't benefit anyone, and the opposite
can benefit everyone.
Timothy M. Schreyer
|> trading as an integral part. rec.games.board.cards is too eclectic,
|> for no good reason. Why should Up Front and MtG be discussed in the
|> same group just because both of them build a board with cards?
|> Otherwise, they have almost nothing in common. Better to leave Up
|> Front with rec.games.board discussions, where it belongs.
|>
|> Thus I feel the only acceptable solution proposed so far is
|> rec.games.board.trading-cards
|>
|> (with or without a final "s").
|>
get MtG into its own group, not one which will draw off Illuminati and
Up Front and Nuclear War traffic which is doing just fine where it is --
in rec.games.board. And while we're at it, also try to make the group
well enough named that new games of the same sort will find their way
there.
rec.games.board.trading-card is the way to go.
markb
r.g.b.trading-cards is nearly as good, but collecting and trading cards
is a recreation in itself, the innovation in the deckmaster series is that
you actually play a game with the cards you've collected, so "deckmaster"
seems the more specific name.
Like others in this group, I would happily vote for either name though.
Mark Bassett
Investment Intelligence
Markus Stumptner
> Also,
> if and when similar trading card games come out, they may swamp
> rec.games.board as MtG did, because people will not think to post to a
> group called "deckmaster".
> Nevertheless, I will vote for the group no matter what its name.
Precisely for the above reason I will vote against this group (and advise
others to do so as well). If lots of people still end up posting to
rec.games.board because they don't understand the name of the group
intended for them, then the group split has missed its target (namely,
getting that part of the traffic out of here).
Frederick Scott
>rec.games.board.trading-cards: I don't see the advantage of this over just
>rec.games.board.cards. It doesn't let games like Illuminati, etc, in, but
>does anyone really mind them that much?
Yes I do. I don't want move these games out of r.g.b as there is no reason
to. Illuminti, Nuclear Destruction, and Naval War don't have as much in
common with MtG as, say, other beer and pretzel board games like Rail Baron
and Wiz War.
And I still have YET to hear anyone tell me how to classify any game on the
market with a board AND cards - which is really quite a few games when you
think about it. (Civilization, Outpost, Wiz War, Kingmaker, Spies, Empires
of the Middle Ages, Down With the King, Empire Builder, War of the Ring just
to go through MY game collection. I'm sure there are many MANY more.) I've
mentioned this several times and still not received any reply on it except
for people who admit it would be a problem. I want to hear the solution
before I ever support rec.games.cards or rec.games.board.cards as an MtG
group. The problem, as I see it, isn't that card games IN GENERAL need
another place to go because they don't belong in r.g.b, the problem is that
rec.games.board is somewhat misnamed or non-intuitive. I don't think there's
a solution to that - or at least not one should be addressed here and now.
I think you would be much better advised to stick to proposing a group
appropriate to MtG *only*.
Fred
Timothy M. Schreyer
|> Doesn't rec.games.board.trading-cards SOUND like you are only TRADING cards
|> that would be used for board games? I suspect that rec.games.board.deckmaster
|> is the lesser of two evils. (Don't ask me what would be a better name, *I*
|> don't have one.)
|>
is better than "trading cards board games", so this might be an actual
argument for r.g.b.trading-CARD instead of r.g.b.trading-CARDS. :-)
Timothy M. Schreyer
|> In article 20...@VFL.Paramax.COM, sch...@gvls1.vfl.paramax.com (Timothy M. Schreyer) writes:
|> > Also,
|> > if and when similar trading card games come out, they may swamp
|> > rec.games.board as MtG did, because people will not think to post to a
|> > group called "deckmaster".
|>
|> > Nevertheless, I will vote for the group no matter what its name.
|>
|> Precisely for the above reason I will vote against this group (and advise
|> others to do so as well). If lots of people still end up posting to
|> rec.games.board because they don't understand the name of the group
|> intended for them, then the group split has missed its target (namely,
|> getting that part of the traffic out of here).
|>
than rec.games.board.deckmaster for the reasons both of us cite.
Frederick Scott
>P.S. Are we allowed to discuss this here in THIS area or should we be doing it
>ONLY in the nesgroup dedicated to this sort of thing?
I believe the usual procedure is to crosspost between news.groups and any
and all related, existing newsgroups - which for the rec.games.board.deckmaster
proposal is probably just rec.games.board. I notice some people have been
removing news.groups from the newsgroups lines, perhaps in conformance with
the "Crossposting is bad, ICKY ICKY *POO* *POO*" dogma that seems to permeate
the net.
Fred
Shaper
Not my favorite suggestion, but it does solve the basic problem of too
much MtG traffic, with clone traffic coming up soon. Since naming seems
to be the big debate, not the need for SOME group, may I suggest a
solution that will perhaps solve the problem as soon as possible?
Leave the final name choice to whomever proposes the group and starts
pushing through the discussion and voting.
At present, that would leave it as r.g.deckmaster, I believe. And I DO
think MtG players will recognize the name. Again, not my favorite
solution to the Name Game, but it'l suffice.
(re: "MtG players probably won't even know that it is a deckmaster game...
How many Battletech players never knew until RIGHT NOW that BattleTech is
produced by FASA? Or D&D players: Did yo uknow that TSR makes your game?)
MB
Shaper
continue to post to rec.games.board>
Who do you think will be the biggest market when that first clone hits the
market? The people on r.g.b, or the people on the
hypothetical*.deckmaster? I think deckmaster. They already have the
interest in that game, as opposed to a possible curiousity of r.g.bers.
And when they buy it, why would they post to r.g.b. when they're already
on a better newsgroup?
I think this hypothetical problem is one that will quickly take care of
itself. WHen they tell their friends about a newsgroup that discusses
those games, tehy'll say *.d. Granted, newbies to the net will be by
every september or so and posting on r.g.b, bu tthat happens pretty much
everywhere. Just tell them to go to *.d and they'll be off where people
will talk with them about game X. Put it in the FAQ, too, which should be
posted every month or so. "What about games like Magic: the Gathering or
Jyhad? "These games used to be a part of r.g.b, but due to excessive
traffic they were moved to a new group, entitle *.deckmaster. If you wish
to discuss these games, try there first as there will be a much larger
audience.:
Crossposting happens, no matter what you do, on similar groups.
Rec.juggling occasionally gets messages from boomerangers and unicyclists.
Granted they are similar hobbies, but they also have their own groups
somewhere, or so I've gathered from replies to those messages. THey're
not unwelcome, though, anymore than I think an occasional new gamer would
be, who wishes to talk about one of his games on r.g.b. They are simply
informed that there's another, even better group to be used, as well.
They usually check it out immediately. Problem solved.
MB
Timothy M. Schreyer
|> <rec.games.board.trading-card(s)>
|>
^^^^^^^^^ MY favorite solution, without the s.
|> (re: "MtG players probably won't even know that it is a deckmaster game...
|> How many Battletech players never knew until RIGHT NOW that BattleTech is
|> produced by FASA? Or D&D players: Did yo uknow that TSR makes your game?)
|>
It's not that simple. Wizards of the Coast is licensing from Garfield
Games or something like that. The "game series" or what have you
is named Deckmaster. I'm not sure who christened it "Deckmaster".
It might be more like "How many D&D players today know what TSR stands for?"
or "Or what's a Psionicist? It's not in my Player's Handbook anywhere!".
Timothy M. Schreyer
|> <*.deckmaster is not intuitive, and as clones come out people will
|> continue to post to rec.games.board>
|>
|> Who do you think will be the biggest market when that first clone hits the
|> market? The people on r.g.b, or the people on the
|> hypothetical*.deckmaster? I think deckmaster. They already have the
|> interest in that game, as opposed to a possible curiousity of r.g.bers.
|> And when they buy it, why would they post to r.g.b. when they're already
|> on a better newsgroup?
|>
now involving building teams of superheroes. It's likely that people
attracted to the superheroes genre will come to this game without
stopping by to play MtG. This may be true with the Vampire: the Masquerade
or Tolkien games upcoming, but to a much lesser extent, I agree.
Calling it trading-card instead of deckmaster is an easy way to help
diminish the number of people who will be oh so cordially redirected from
rec.games.board to the new group. Sure, it's not hard to re-direct people
but why bother at all if you don't have to?
Perhaps a Princess...
<simp...@skyfox.usask.ca> wrote:
@Doesn't rec.games.board.trading-cards SOUND like you are only TRADING cards
@that would be used for board games? I suspect that rec.games.board.deckmaster
@is the lesser of two evils. (Don't ask me what would be a better name, *I*
@don't have one.)
@
@P.S. Are we allowed to discuss this here in THIS area or should we be doing it
@ONLY in the nesgroup dedicated to this sort of thing?
It DOES need to be discussed in news.groups
I have added enws.groups to the headers, and changed the Followup-To
to point there.
--
Sarah E. Heacock sa...@eskimo.com
.sig dedicated to the memory of Gene Roddenberry "The Great Bird of the Galaxy"
Bill Seurer
|> continue to post to rec.games.board>
|>
|> Who do you think will be the biggest market when that first clone hits the
|> market? The people on r.g.b, or the people on the
|> hypothetical*.deckmaster? I think deckmaster. They already have the
|> interest in that game, as opposed to a possible curiousity of r.g.bers.
|> And when they buy it, why would they post to r.g.b. when they're already
|> on a better newsgroup?
That depends. Take my TSR example, "AD&D Sorcerer: the Ripoff".
Probably legions of AD&D fanatics will snap it up simply because it
has the mystic letters in its name.
Kirby Krueger
and Magic: The Gathering is that only one generates 2/3 of rec.games.board
traffic daily.
We can argue logical placement, and that's all and good, but keep in mind
the basic motivation is to make a group primarily for M:tG, and one that
will not grow osbsolete and handle the spinoffs. Deckmaster is fine for
the WotC spinoffs - I don't know of any others planned right now. Company-
specific groups are not unheard of... such as rec.games.frp.dnd, or
rec.games.diplomacy. However, if we seriously anticipate other companies
jumping on the bandwagon (and how likely this is, I don't honestly know),
we should try for something less aesthetically pleasing (IMHO) but more
inclusive, like .trading-card.
Roger M Kolaks
>
>Frankly, I see it as a win-win situation, and can't understand the
>opposition to it. Your post above, for example, seems to express
>opposition to the idea, but gives me no clue why. Likewise, Bill
Steffan,
I object primarily because I see MtG as a fad and I feel that it will
fade in a very short time. I've been a gamer for a very long time and I
have seen many game fads come and go. I don't feel it's worth the trouble
at this time to form a new groujp for it.
I object to the name .deckmaster because it is not intuitive and becaseu
it is a trademark. I don't support the commonising (i just made that word
up, could you guess) of trademarks.
The traffic for MtG on this newsgroup is no greater than the traffic for
some topics on other groups. Example _jordon_ on .sf.written. And, with
the exception of the debate about forming a new group, is not
significantly greater than the traffic about A&A.
Nextly, kill files work quite well to reduce the temporay and petty
annoyances caused by these postings.
And, I do not like the high handedness of some people in their attempt
to promulgate their particular definition of *board game*.
...rmk
Stephen Graham
>simp...@skyfox.usask.ca writes:
>
>>P.S. Are we allowed to discuss this here in THIS area or should we be doing it
>>ONLY in the nesgroup dedicated to this sort of thing?
>
>I believe the usual procedure is to crosspost between news.groups and any
>and all related, existing newsgroups - which for the rec.games.board.deckmaster
>proposal is probably just rec.games.board.
It really should only be discussed in news.groups, per precedent.
--
Stephen Graham
gra...@cs.washington.edu uw-beaver!june!graham
Roger M Kolaks
Frederick Scott <fre...@netcom.com> wrote:
>
>I think you would be much better advised to stick to proposing a group
>appropriate to MtG *only*.
>
Fred,
I agree with you that if MtG is ousted from this news group then I
should be to its own group. rec.games.[board].MtG. And that only
becaseu it has the traffic to support such a group. Not because is does
not belong on rec.games.board due to its lack of a physical board. There
are too many other games which lack physical boards that clearly do belong
here.
...rmk
Roger M Kolaks
Kirby Krueger <kru...@stein3.u.washington.edu> wrote:
>Actually, the only relevant difference between Upfront, Illuminati, Wiz-war,
>and Magic: The Gathering is that only one generates 2/3 of rec.games.board
>traffic daily.
>
I concur.
I am much more interested in seeing the formation of a .marketplace news
group to get all the trading, auctions and sale off this group.
...rmk
Jonathan R. Ferro
more proposal? My choice is:
rec.games.board.card-wars
I think this amusingly captures both arenas in which MtG is played: the
war to win individual games with the cards you own, and the war to gain
more and better cards in between actual games. It also is reminiscent
of H.G. Wells "Little Wars" which was a major inspiration for the hobby
of miniatures and war gaming, although I will refrain from predicting
such an auspicious future for this genre at this time. Comments?
-- Jon Ferro Einsprachigkeit ist heilbar
David G. Saville
Markus Stumptner <m...@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at> wrote:
>In article 20...@VFL.Paramax.COM, sch...@gvls1.vfl.paramax.com (Timothy M. Schreyer) writes:
>> Nevertheless, I will vote for the group no matter what its name.
>
>Precisely for the above reason I will vote against this group (and advise
>others to do so as well). If lots of people still end up posting to
>rec.games.board because they don't understand the name of the group
>intended for them, then the group split has missed its target (namely,
>getting that part of the traffic out of here).
I think the problem will be alleviated by the FAQ directing people
to the correct newsgroup when it is formed. Even with the ocasional
posts to r.g.b. on the subject, I am sure friendly email directing them
to the correct newsgroup will prevent long threads and newsgroup domination.
Rec.games.mecha was very successful and I think most parties are very
pleased with that split. When people post mecha related posts here, they
are directed to r.g.m. and the thread dies here and they are happy to
have been directed to the correct group.
David Saville
Alec Habig
>In article <1993Dec15....@oz.plymouth.edu>,
>Steffan O'Sullivan <s...@oz.plymouth.edu> wrote:
>>kol...@clark.edu (Roger M Kolaks) writes:
>>
>>Frankly, I see it as a win-win situation, and can't understand the
>>opposition to it. Your post above, for example, seems to express
>>opposition to the idea, but gives me no clue why. Likewise, Bill
>
>fade in a very short time. I've been a gamer for a very long time and I
>have seen many game fads come and go. I don't feel it's worth the trouble
>at this time to form a new groujp for it.
It's been hot and heavy for several months now.
> I object to the name .deckmaster because it is not intuitive and becaseu
>it is a trademark. I don't support the commonising (i just made that word
>up, could you guess) of trademarks.
Agreed - .trading-card is better.
> The traffic for MtG on this newsgroup is no greater than the traffic for
>some topics on other groups. Example _jordon_ on .sf.written. And, with
>the exception of the debate about forming a new group, is not
>significantly greater than the traffic about A&A.
A&A and Titan are two examples of postings that occurr in week long spurts
every month or so. Magic has been twice their volume for several months
straight.
> Nextly, kill files work quite well to reduce the temporay and petty
>annoyances caused by these postings.
Agreed. The magic people have been good about labelling their subjects.
However, they have enough sustained volume to warrent a new group. This is
also a good chance to make .marketplace, which is an excellent idea.
> And, I do not like the high handedness of some people in their attempt
>to promulgate their particular definition of *board game*.
That aside, here we have a game which deserves a group of it's own. It worked
well for Cosmic Encounter. It worked well for btech. It worked stupendously
well for miniatures. I supported none of these splits on the same sort of
grounds you've explained, but given teir success, I've changed my stance and
wholeheartedly support a rec.games.board.tradeing-card and .marketplace split.
Alec
The Spanish Inquisition
discussion going on for rec.games.board.{deckmaster and marketplace}
Since we have fairly frequent posts on r.g.frp.misc about Magic: The
Gathering, I felt it best to include that group in the discussion.
If you have a preferance, please speak up.
In article <fred_sCI...@netcom.com> fre...@netcom.com (Frederick Scott) writes:
So far, people seem to be leaning towards a r.g.board. trading-cards for the
uhm, Magic group. The r.g.board.markeplace seems to be aggreed upon universally.
However, I for one would prefer a group which would be able to encompass
other card games more readily. Once any r.g.board.CARDS group is formed,
newbies will automatically gravitate there for nonstandard card
games.
Brief example: Quest for the Faysylwood.....a brand new card game. Like
Magic, it involves combat of a fantasy sort. There are magic items,
followers and treasure. There are monsters to fight. There is only
one winner. However, there is no trading. If .trading-cards goes
through, where is a newbie gonna post first? r.g.board? I dont think
so.
just my random ramblings,
inqu...@matt.ksu.ksu.edu
Timothy M. Schreyer
|>
|> Brief example: Quest for the Faysylwood.....a brand new card game. Like
|> Magic, it involves combat of a fantasy sort. There are magic items,
|> followers and treasure. There are monsters to fight. There is only
|> one winner. However, there is no trading. If .trading-cards goes
|> through, where is a newbie gonna post first? r.g.board? I dont think
|> so.
|>
"Trading cards? That must be something collectible, like baseball cards.
Maybe I'll just ask in rec.games.board...". Meanwhile, the newbie
looking for baseball cards will think "This SAYS trading-card but it's
under BOARD GAMES -- that's got to be something else... Ah! Here's
rec.collecting.cards... That sounds right!". Across town, a newbie
has just bought T$R's new knock-off of MtG, Dungeons : The Dragoning,
and is dying to talk about it... "Maybe I should post to rec.games.frp.misc...
well, what other game groups are there? This isn't exactly role-playing...
Hey, they've got one called rec.games.board.trading-card!"
I know this is optimistic, but I think it may prove valid enough
times to justify it, and it's always easy to re-direct a mis-post.
Taki Kogoma
Kirby Krueger <kru...@stein3.u.washington.edu> wrote:
>Well, the consensus on rec.games.board is definitely that a newsgroup
>for Magic should exist. The name is the real question. We have, IMHO,
>the following options:
>[snip!]
>rec.games.board.cards: Not hard to steer MtG traffic to. Would include
>things like Once Upon a Time, Illuminati, etc, but the traffic for these
>is not much of a factor. [etc.]
Therein lies the problem; People would have to wade through a morass
of MtG (and similar trade-card game) articles for the occasional
Illuminati/WizWar/Hacker/Up Front/etc. posts. I think it best to leave
the non-trading 'card games' in r.g.b.
(Of course, this isn't a real problem for me, since I have trn. But then,
I don't have a problem with rec.games.board as it is now. ;-)
--
Capt. Gym Z. Quirk | "I'll get a life when someone
(Known to some as Taki Kogoma) | demonstrates that it would be
kog...@unm.edu | superior to what I have now."
Veteran of the '91 sf-lovers re-org. | -- Gym Quirk
simp...@skyfox.usask.ca
rec.games.board.car-wars which is yet another "board" game.
I'm not sure anymore, however. rec.games.board.deckmaster still sounds better
(ESPECIALLY now that someone has pointed out that there is rec.games.diplomacy
which includes the name of a game) but rec.games.board.trading-card may be
a good compromise. But if *I* were wandering around rec.games looking for
a place to post a message about M:tG, I'd post it on *.deckmaster or *.MtG
sooner than I'd post it on *.trading-card. I don't think I'd even RECOGNIZE
*.trading-card as the proper place to discuss RULES questions but then I'm rather infamous for getting lost easily.
<Sigh> I think I'm still going to have to go for rec.games.board.deckmaster
simply because that is something *I* would recognize as the place to discuss
ALL aspects of Magic the Gathering if I were a new user looking for such an
area. After all, we ARE supposed to come up with a name that people can FIND
aren't we? Since we are expecting DIFFERENT expansions soon, *.MtG is out
so *.deckmaster STILL seems the lesser of all the evils proposed so far.
Kirby Krueger
for Magic should exist. The name is the real question. We have, IMHO,
the following options:
rec.games.board.deckmaster: Easily identifiable to Magic players (and
increasingly so as other deckmaster games come out under that marketing
scheme.) Excludes most other things.
rec.games.board.cards: Not hard to steer MtG traffic to. Would include
things like Once Upon a Time, Illuminati, etc, but the traffic for these
is not much of a factor. Higher chance of improper posting, from baseball
cards (it is a game, after all) to bridge, despite the board in the title.
rec.games.deckmaster, rec.games.card: Magic is in spirit a board game. I
see no reason to be less descriptive and not use a pre-existing heirarchy
that fits the game very well. Rec.games.card invites invasion by more
traditional board games.
rec.games.board.trading-cards: I don't see the advantage of this over just
rec.games.board.cards. It doesn't let games like Illuminati, etc, in, but
does anyone really mind them that much? Maybe the word trading-cards
implies to me that it's like baseball cards too much; I would rather play
the game than trade cards.
Regardless, I would like to get a group made, and I would like to have the
most logical name. What does the net at large feel would best fit?
Kirby Krueger
Kirby Krueger <kru...@stein3.u.washington.edu> wrote:
>see no reason to be less descriptive and not use a pre-existing heirarchy
>that fits the game very well. Rec.games.card invites invasion by more
>traditional board games.
Brad Andrews
directly indicates what it is: board game genre games played using cards
you can trade for. It isn't limited to "deckmaster" games (I never knew that
was the trade name for MtG and other games from that company until I read
it here). This will allow it to grow when other similar games are
released from different companies.
In addition, games like Naval War and Nuclear War are not needlessly moved from
the group. Their volume doesn't justify a move for them. MtG is the
current "problem" and other games like it will certainly add to the flow.
---
Brad Andrews
rb...@cas.org
All opinions are strictly mine
Ron Asbestos Dippold
unmoderated group rec.games.deckmaster
unmoderated group rec.games.board.marketplace
Newsgroups line:
rec.games.deckmaster Discussion of the Deckmaster line of games.
rec.games.board.marketplace Trading and selling of board games.
Votes must be received by 23:59:59 UTC, 12 February 1994.
This CFV will be posted to the <gg...@wizards.com> and <gg-trading-l@
wizards.com> mailing lists once it appears on news.announce.newgroups.
This vote is being conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact rdip...@qualcomm.com. For questions about the
proposed group contact <kru...@U.washington.edu>
CHARTER
rec.games.deckmaster
This group will be for the discussion of rules, card combinations,
timing questions, card text explanations, and all matters pertaining
to games like 'Magic: the Gathering' -- that is, collectible, trading
card, constructed deck, strategy games.
rec.games.board.marketplace
This group will be for the posting of auctions, sales, and
trading of the various games found in the rec.games.board heirarchy.
Currently, traffic for Magic: The Gathering, the first Deckmaster game
published, is dominating rec.games.board. Many regulars there are
starting to complain at the high, and sustained, volume, which has not
declined since the game's initial release in August. With upcoming
expansions and deckmaster games in various states of production,
and with the recent release of the unlimited edition which will increase
availability, it seems likely that interest will increase in the future,
rather than decrease.
HOW TO VOTE
Erase everything above the top "-=-=-=-" line and erase everything
below the bottom "-=-=-=-" line. Do not erase anything between these
lines and do not change the group names.
For each group, place a YES or NO in the brackets next to it to vote
for or against it. If you don't want to vote on a particular group,
just leave the space blank. Don't worry about spacing of the columns
or any quote characters (">") that your reply inserts.
Send MAIL to: vot...@qualcomm.com
Just Replying should work if you are not reading this on a mailing list.
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
rec.games vote Ballot <RGD-0001> (Don't remove this marker)
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] rec.games.deckmaster
[ ] rec.games.board.marketplace
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.
Only one vote per person and per account will be counted. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.
Ron Asbestos Dippold
CHARTER
rec.games.deckmaster
rec.games.board.marketplace
HOW TO VOTE
rec.games vote Ballot <RGD-0002> (Don't remove this marker)
[Your Vote] Group
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[ ] rec.games.deckmaster
[ ] rec.games.board.marketplace
-=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Anything else may be rejected by the automatic vote counting program. The
votetaker will respond to your received ballots with a personal acknowledge-
ment by mail - if you do not receive one within several days, try again.
It's your responsibility to make sure your vote is registered correctly.
Only one vote per person and per account will be counted. Addresses and
votes of all voters will be published in the final voting results list.
rec.games vote Bounce Ack List - no need to revote
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
dan...@turing.upjs.sk
h...@keene.edu
ilat...@uk.ac.rpms.mpcc3
le...@pigpen.asf.com
tec...@netaxs.com
Ron Asbestos Dippold
rec.games vote results - 700 valid votes
Yes No : 2/3? >100? : Pass? : Group
---- ---- : ---- ----- : ----- : -------------------------------------------
658 39 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.games.deckmaster
555 89 : Yes Yes : Yes : rec.games.board.marketplace
4 invalid votes
The groups should be created after a five day period, barring any
serious questions about the validity of the vote.
Newsgroups line:
rec.games.deckmaster Discussion of the Deckmaster line of games.
rec.games.board.marketplace Trading and selling of board games.
This vote was conducted by a neutral third party. For voting
questions only contact rdip...@qualcomm.com. For questions about the
proposed group contact <kru...@U.washington.edu>
CHARTER
rec.games.deckmaster
This group will be for the discussion of rules, card combinations,
timing questions, card text explanations, and all matters pertaining
to games like 'Magic: the Gathering' -- that is, collectible, trading
card, constructed deck, strategy games.
rec.games.board.marketplace
This group will be for the posting of auctions, sales, and
trading of the various games found in the rec.games.board heirarchy.
rec.games vote Final Vote Ack
rec.games.board.marketplace ----+
rec.games.deckmaster ---+|
||
$ste...@sas-mis.byu.edu Stephan Fassmann YY
00bkpe...@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu YY
00jdb...@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu YY
01sahe...@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu YY
32F...@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU YY
3KE6PO...@vmsf.csd.mu.edu MIKE POLLMANN YY
6ANTH...@spcvxa.spc.edu YY
70671...@CompuServe.COM JIM STEHLIK YY
@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU:344LW...@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU YY
a4...@mindlink.bc.ca J.D. Frazer YY
aa...@hal.com Tom Wylie YY
aa...@studsys.mscs.mu.edu Aaron Schrab Y-
aca...@netcom.com Michael Collier YY
a...@hotld.att.com YY
a...@world.std.com Ben Bishop YY
adam_...@claris.com Adam R. Joyner YY
admi...@MIT.EDU YY
aeve...@csdhq.attmail.com aeverett Y-
afa...@umich.edu This Space For Rent Y-
aha...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu Alec Habig YY
a...@crosfield.co.uk Adam Huby Y-
ak...@mrc-crc.ac.uk Mr. A.W. King YN
ako...@sfu.ca Andre John Kostur Y-
al19...@academ07.mty.itesm.mx JESUS EUGENIO SANCHEZ PENA NN
ala...@rahul.net Andrew Lange YY
ald...@u.washington.edu Dwane Aldrich YY
ali...@access.digex.net alierha YN
alon...@cape.UWaterloo.ca Allan Longley Y-
amer...@armltd.co.uk Andy Merritt YY
amy...@clark.net Witch's Hair YY
ana...@netcom.com Chris Taylor Y-
Andreas....@risc.uni-linz.ac.at Andreas Neubacher YY
an...@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com Andy Finkel - Guest YY
an...@harlequin.com Andy Latto YY
ans...@NMSU.Edu YY
ap...@cea.Berkeley.EDU Shannon Appel NY
ar...@andrew.cmu.edu Adam K. Rixey YY
ar...@cs.wisc.edu David Argentar YY
ar...@csscr.washington.edu Ken Martin YY
art...@microsoft.com Arthur Brooking YY
au...@cs.albany.edu Jim Ault NY
awe...@jaruthur.claremont.edu Adam B. Wells YY
ayo...@hp-vcd.vcd.hp.com Andy Young YY
aza...@dudael.equinox.gen.nz Dillon Burke YY
b-bo...@adfa.oz.au YY
badk...@wam.umd.edu Prince of Darkness YY
ba...@MIT.EDU YY
bal...@cs.umu.se Y-
bar...@cse.ogi.edu Christopher Barkley YY
ba...@pop.psu.edu David Barr N-
ba...@playfair.Stanford.EDU Barrett P. Eynon YY
bartholomew%eagle....@detrick-emh1.army.mil EAGLE::BARTHOLOMEW Y-
b...@phys.uva.nl Bas de Bakker YY
bas...@rintintin.Colorado.EDU Michael Baswell YY
ba...@isi.com Rob Bates YN
bb...@andrew.cmu.edu Brian Bankler YY
bco...@Access.COM Bill Conner YY
bdo...@sciborg.uwaterloo.ca Brian Dorion YY
Benedik...@p1.firemark.fido.de Benedikt Heinen YY
be...@owlnet.rice.edu Benjamin Francis Drago YY
Ben_...@stortek.stortek.com Ben Baron x4670 YY
bet...@microsoft.com YY
big...@kauri.vuw.ac.nz Campbell March YY
bi...@osf.org Bill Masek YY
bill...@access.digex.net Jeremy Billones YY
bi...@its.bldrdoc.gov Bill Ingram YY
bis...@acs.ucalgary.ca YY
b...@rommel.apana.org.au Brad McMahon YY
bjoh...@MIT.EDU Brett W. Johnson (617) 273-2289 YY
bl...@andrew.cmu.edu Brian D Leet YY
bl...@mksol.dseg.ti.com arthur blair NN
blau...@ingres.com YY
b...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu Bret Mikeal O Neal YY
bo...@PROCASE.COM Bob Weissman NN
bo...@math.rutgers.edu Doug Bonar YN
bo...@lion.Eng.Sun.COM Steve Jankowski YY
b...@cs.odu.edu The Joker YY
b...@scf.usc.edu Montgomery Box YY
boy...@math.mit.edu Bo-Yin Yang YY
bp...@andrew.cmu.edu Benjamin L. Peal YY
brad.a...@cas.org Brad Andrews YY
bra...@virga.rap.ucar.edu Brandon Slaten YN
br...@technix.technix.MN.ORG Bret Indrelee YY
br...@opus.chem.psu.edu Brian J. Toleno YY
brian_...@isd.Jpl.Nasa.Gov Brian Vickers YY
bri...@rpi.edu Y-
br...@tdis.icpsr.umich.edu Jon Brode YY
brow...@symcom.math.uiuc.edu Howard J. Browning YY
Bruce...@f95.n105.z1.fidonet.org Bruce Baugh YY
br...@cerberus.csd.uwm.edu Bruno Wolff III YY
br...@hpihoc.cup.hp.com Bill Bryg YY
BSCH...@carleton.edu @ r++ y+(?) YY
BSPE...@utkvx.utk.edu Hairsplitting Headbutts YY
bt...@cornell.edu Brian T. Carpenter YN
bu...@macc.wisc.edu Darrell Budic YY
c-go...@rsc.u-aizu.ac.jp Christian F. Goetze YY
c57...@monad.missouri.edu Y-
cald...@spdc.ti.com Wayne Caldwell Y-
cam...@cs.rit.edu Colin A Mahoney YY
can...@ilog.ilog.fr Eric Canton Y-
car...@umich.edu John Caraher YY
cas...@vxcern.cern.ch Dave Casper YY
catm...@netcom.com Nancie J. DeSimone Y-
catt...@david.wheaton.edu Edith Cattle YY
cba...@bbn.com Chris Barber YY
ccam...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca Chris Camfield YY
cca...@acme.gatech.edu Chris Goodrum YY
cct...@sun1.mcsr.olemiss.edu YY
c...@vt.edu Chameleon Eclectic Y-
cgo...@nyx10.cs.du.edu Christopher Golden YY
cha...@eecg.toronto.edu John Chappel YY
char...@thuban.crd.ge.com Michael R Charbonneau YY
cha...@underdog.jpl.nasa.gov Len Charest NN
Chre...@cup.portal.com YY
ch...@ornews.intel.com Chris Houghton YY
chr...@fmd00.larc.nasa.gov Christopher Carpinello YY
chu...@soda.berkeley.edu Chua Hak Lien YY
CIN...@LNS62.LNS.CORNELL.EDU Y-
c...@rock.concert.net Charles J Poirier -- Personal Account YY
c...@phy.duke.edu Carl Schnurr YY
c...@kei.com Christopher Davis YY
clai...@express.ctron.com Christian L Claiborn NY
cle...@rpi.edu YY
CLE...@psl.nmsu.edu Craig Lewis YY
C...@eclx.psu.edu YY
cl...@usceast.cs.scarolina.edu Ernest A. Cline NN
co...@crl.com Gary Heavysege YY
c...@alchemy.ithaca.NY.US Courtenay Footman YN
cr...@cus.cam.ac.uk Colin Bell YY
cre...@netcom.com CatriOna y Ardelita YY
cri...@armory.com Crisper Than Thou YN
crob...@umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu bored very YY
crou...@flidh102.delcoelect.com NN
crp...@erfsys01.boeing.com Chris Payne NN
cst...@csv.warwick.ac.uk Y-
cs...@csv.warwick.ac.uk Mr M A Wienen Y-
cth...@io.org Chin Huang Y-
cumm...@u.washington.edu Michael Cummings YN
cur...@euclid.uoregon.edu Aaron Curtis YY
cwat...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Coyt D Watters NY
cw...@fermi.clas.virginia.edu Christopher Wade Ingram YN
c...@MIT.EDU YY
d8...@efd.lth.se Dahn-Ola Olsson YN
d9...@elg-1.efd.lth.se Jonas Bergenudd YY
d...@seachang.demon.co.uk David Allsopp YN
dam...@cda.mrs.umn.edu Steven B. Damer YY
d...@chpc.utexas.edu YY
dan...@turing.upjs.sk Dancik Vladimir YY
dan...@xsoft.xerox.com Andrew M. Daniels YY
da...@jargon.whoi.edu Dan Leader YY
da...@netftp.austin.ibm.com Dan Thompson YY
dar...@maths.tcd.ie YY
da...@nepahwin.cs.laurentian.ca Dave Minogue YY
da...@harlequin.co.uk Dave Berry YY
da...@hpmcdg.mcm.hp.com Dave Gembala YY
David.E...@Dartmouth.EDU David E. Melaugh YY
david.j...@swcbbs.com David Jacobson YY
David.K...@Eng.Sun.COM David Katleman YN
Davi...@cs.tcd.ie NY
David.W...@EBay.Sun.COM David B. Williams YY
dav...@hpixec01.cup.hp.com Dave Black YN
dav...@qpsx.oz.au David Pascoe NN
dav...@smsun100.crd.ge.com jonathan e davis YY
dbas...@nickel.ucs.indiana.edu Mike Basinger YY
d...@utkux.utcc.utk.edu YY
d...@aifh.ed.ac.uk Daniel Cunliffe YY
de...@lore.kla.com Dean Dierschow NY
del...@xn.ll.mit.edu YY
DEL...@PMEL.NOAA.GOV Robert DeLoura YY
DE...@spanky.pas.rochester.edu Eric R. Derby YY
De...@sparecom.mn.org Derek Oldfather YY
desc...@CHIMCN.UMontreal.CA Deschatelets Pascal YN
de...@ccr-p.ida.org David desJardins YY
de...@fungusaur.wizards.com Beverly Marshall Saling YY
dev...@weiss.che.utexas.edu Joseph DeVincentis YY
dge...@cats.ucsc.edu YY
dgr...@osiris.ac.hmc.edu David Green YY
DHB...@ZEUS.TAMU.EDU Y-
d...@aplpy.jhuapl.edu David H. Terry YY
dis...@mcnc.org Dennis W. Disney YY
ditt...@winx3d.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de Rainer Dittmann YY
ditt...@gtewd.mtv.gtegsc.com YN
djs...@hermes.cam.ac.uk D.J.S. Damerell YY
dk...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu Robert E. Cartwright YY
dk...@andrew.cmu.edu Daniel Kraut YY
dkfe...@sirius.uvic.ca David Fenger YY
dl...@CS.cmu.edu Daryl Clevenger YY
dleo...@netcom.com doug leonard YY
DL...@msu.edu YY
dm0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu Crone YY
d...@cpac.washington.edu YY
D...@MITVMA.MIT.EDU YN
dm...@fx.com Dan Moen YY
doe...@cse.ogi.edu Thomas Doehne YY
do...@cs.tu-berlin.de Matthias Klose YY
Don....@Eng.Sun.COM Don Woods YY
Doug....@Eng.Sun.COM Douglas Jenner YY
Douglas....@williams.edu YY
do...@hpwrce.mayfield.hp.com Doug Walker YY
d...@cse.ucsc.edu David Helmbold YY
dra...@lcc1.nsc.com Mike Draeger YY
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dsav...@triton.unm.edu David G. Saville YN
dsch...@yesac.columbiasc.NCR.COM YY
dst...@homespace.mtview.ca.us Darrel E. Strom YY
duc...@labri.u-bordeaux.fr Philippe DUCHON YY
Du...@cup.portal.com YY
DUnger/CSU...@RandD.FS.ColoState.edu YY
dur...@skinner.cs.uoregon.edu Brian Lee Durney Y-
dus...@crl.com Dustin Hamilton YY
d...@eagle.hr.att.com Dave Van Cleef NY
dvl...@cs.umu.se Y-
dvl...@cs.umu.se YY
DWAL...@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU YY
dwal...@sjc.mentorg.com David E. Wallace YY
dwo...@watarts.uwaterloo.ca The Black Knight YY
dy...@aber.ac.uk dyw3 YY
ea...@cmc.ca Adrian Earle Y-
edan...@well.sf.ca.us Ed Allen and Avi Rappoport YY
Edson...@rand.org Edson Smith YY
Edward_S...@mindlink.bc.ca Edward Swatschek YY
efh...@midway.uchicago.edu Erick Huang YY
ehil...@cs.indiana.edu erik hilsdale NN
eli...@clark.net Brian Jo Burke YY
ell...@david.wheaton.edu Roc (Rick Ellis) YY
EN...@wombat.newcastle.edu.au James Smith YN
enol...@MIT.EDU YY
ent...@merle.acns.nwu.edu YY
ep...@nyx.cs.du.edu Eric Pass YY
er...@amisk.cs.ualberta.ca Holleman Eric YY
er...@dekard.com Eric J. McGlohon YY
et...@manorcon.demon.co.uk Peter Sullivan YY
eyh...@garnet.berkeley.edu Eugene Hung YY
f7y...@ugrad.cs.ubc.ca DAVID MOULD YY
f90...@nada.kth.se YY
ferg...@ncsa.uiuc.edu Jim Ferguson YN
fer...@bnr.ca wray (w.) ferrell YY
feym...@gold.tc.umn.edu YY
feyn...@leland.Stanford.EDU Robert Au YY
fils...@ucunix.san.uc.EDU Michael David Filsinger YY
fle...@glamdring.oit.gatech.edu Mike Fletcher YY
fore...@cs.hope.edu Lee Forester YY
fre...@netcom.com Frederick Scott YY
fr...@cp.tn.tudelft.nl Frits Kuijlman YY
fs...@camelot.acf-lab.alaska.edu Sean P. Ryan NN
ft...@cs.su.oz.au Fred the Wonder Worm YY
fu...@gl.umbc.edu Francis A Uy NY
g...@mitchell.hitc.com Greg A.'Tony' Baraghimian YY
GARF...@whitman.edu YN
ga...@archsci.arch.su.EDU.AU Garry Stevens YN
gau...@IO.COM Mike Dalton YY
gee...@bcstec.ca.boeing.com Glenn Elliott YY
g...@acpub.duke.edu G. "Wolfe" Woodbury NN
g...@cc.gatech.edu Gil Neiger NY
gin...@ERE.UMontreal.CA Gingras Frederic YY
gio...@bga.com Giovanni Bertolini YN
g...@servalan.demon.co.uk Graham Harper YY
gl...@sloth.ncsl.nist.gov K. Robert Glenn YY
gmcq...@ingres.com George F. McQuary YY
goe...@panther.rtsg.mot.com Chris J. Goebel YY
gol...@orac.cray.com Goldman of Chaos YY
gor...@groucho.la.asu.edu Jon(athan) YY
gos...@churchst.ccs.itd.umich.edu YY
got...@leland.Stanford.EDU Steven Dean Gottke YY
gott...@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Thomas Gottschalk YY
gr...@engin.umich.edu YY
gra...@cs.washington.edu Stephen Graham YY
gr...@midway.uchicago.edu Fredrick T. Greco YY
gre...@spot.Colorado.EDU GREGORY BRIAN YN
gse...@math.upenn.edu Y-
gsp...@CMU.EDU Geoffrey Spear Y-
gt4...@acme.gatech.edu Marty Jarrio YN
guen...@cis.ohio-state.edu michael george guenther YY
gu...@lise.unit.no Anders H}kon Gulla YN
GUNDE...@DESIRE.WRIGHT.EDU YY
gun...@fid.morgan.com Andrew Gunstensen YY
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gwe...@u.washington.edu Gregory Weiss YY
gwi...@research.att.com YY
ham...@mcs.anl.gov Steven Hammond YY
han...@ono.geg.mot.com Don Hancock x2712 YN
Hans.Wolf...@risc.uni-linz.ac.at Hans Wolfgang Loidl YY
hard...@david.wheaton.edu The Amigo YN
HAW...@carleton.edu I'm AwpH Y-
hay...@uful07.phys.ufl.edu Donald Haynes YY
HCR...@KENTVM.KENT.EDU Heather Cross YY
h...@solace.mh.se Henrik Bylund YN
hein...@ucsu.Colorado.EDU HEINRICHS JOHN FRANCIS YN
hey...@ssrg-ipc-1.Stanford.EDU Jay Heyman YY
h...@keene.edu Harry F Fifield YY
hi...@leland.Stanford.EDU Matthew David Hills YY
hil...@storm.cs.orst.edu Andrew Hilmer YY
hlsw...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu Dave Hollinsworth YY
H...@BIOMED.MED.YALE.EDU YY
hol...@CSOS.ORST.EDU Gordon Holcomb YY
hol...@bnr.ca matthew (m.) holiday YY
Holli...@vuw.ac.nz Hollis Ross YY
hp...@vipunen.hut.fi Heikki Poso YY
hrel...@mach1.wlu.ca Mathew Hreljac u YY
hr...@rocza.kei.com Helen T. Rose Davis YY
h...@zardoz.ruhr.de Harry Zimmermann YY
I.D.F...@fulcrum.co.uk Ian Fitchet YY
ibor...@physics.adelaide.edu.au Ian Borchardt YY
ilat...@uk.ac.rpms.mpcc3 Ian Lathwell N-
ind...@tower.wizards.com Victor K. Wertz YY
in...@sunee.uwaterloo.ca YY
IO0...@MAINE.maine.edu Edward Hartford YY
IS...@UTAPHY.PH.UTEXAS.EDU YY
Ismo.P...@tower.NullNet.FI Ismo Peltonen YY
J.R....@bnr.co.uk YY
ja...@objy.com YY
JAK...@BCSC02.GOV.BC.CA John Kula YY
ja...@wonder.demon.co.uk James Wallis YY
jamt...@CS.ColoState.EDU arne jamtgaard Y-
jap...@access.digex.net John Appel YN
jbat...@nyx10.cs.du.edu Jason Batchelor YY
jbc...@cadehp10.eng.utah.edu John Call YY
jbu...@abacus.bates.edu jburke YY
jca...@sol.uvic.ca James Calver YY
jch...@leland.Stanford.EDU James Alexander Chokey -Y
jcow...@sol.uvic.ca Scowling Jim Cowling YY
j...@neocad.com Dave Bunte YY
j...@access.digex.net John Cochran YY
jd...@akbar.psl.nmsu.edu Jonathan Dean YY
jdeu...@mason1.gmu.edu Jeffrey B Deutsch YY
Jeff....@West.Sun.COM Jeffrey Allen Worley - Sun Silicon Valley SE YY
Jens_H...@mindlink.bc.ca Jens Haeusser YY
jer...@stat.cmu.edu Jeremy C. York YY
je...@uni-paderborn.de Gerald Siek YY
jer...@WPI.EDU Gerald Frederick Pearce Y-
j...@MIT.EDU John Carr YY
jfi...@cnet.shs.arizona.edu Jill R Firch Y-
j...@cs.brown.edu YY
jgoo...@blackswan.Mines.Colorado.EDU Jason Goodall YY
jgr...@netcom.com Joseph Grace Y-
j...@prosun.first.gmd.de Joerg Heuer YY
j...@hostel.lincroftnj.ncr.com Jonathan Clark YY
jh...@umi.com Joe Hepp YN
j...@research.att.com YY
j...@zycor.lgc.com YY
j...@linus.mitre.org Joseph J. Rushanan YY
jk...@hcsd.hac.com James Kerry YY
jkf...@eecs.umich.edu Joel Furr NN
j...@cco.caltech.edu Jacob Mandelson Y-
jmd...@crl.com J Michael Davis YY
jme...@Iluvatar.dseg.ti.com John (Carpe Noctem) Mellby YY
JMETSA...@finabo.abo.fi YY
jmka...@eos.ncsu.edu YN
jmy...@unm.edu Jeffrey D Myers N-D Y-
jo...@aoc.nrao.edu Jim Ogle (Ks. Jim) Y-
jo...@amisk.cs.ualberta.ca Bartoszewski John P YY
joh...@netcom.com John Abbe aka Rademir YY
jo...@cognex.com John Gregg YN
joh...@ferret.cig.mot.com Brad Johnson YY
John_Kol...@SANDMAN.CIMDS.RI.CMU.EDU YY
j...@netlabs.com Jonathan Biggar YY
j...@perca.umd.edu Jonathan Kruger YY
jon...@prairienet.org Bryan J. Jonker YY
j...@mcs.com Jor Bratko YY
jo...@osiris.ac.hmc.edu Josh Smith YY
j...@aol.com YY
jpar...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Joseph Partridge YY
jpa...@nyx.cs.du.edu Jesse Patterson YY
jr...@andrew.cmu.edu Jimmie M. Raines YY
jran...@uiuc.edu Jeff Randall YY
jrb...@uci.edu Joseph R. Boeke YY
jrow...@ua.d.umn.edu YN
jru...@losex.ukp.com John Ruschmeyer YY
jsch...@ua.d.umn.edu Y-
js...@polaris.async.vt.edu Joseph Cochran YY
jswe...@eos.ncsu.edu YY
jtho...@cc.swarthmore.edu jere7my tho?rpe YY
j...@oddjob.uchicago.edu Jim Lauroesch YY
jtr...@zso.dec.com YN
jul...@bongo.tele.com Julian Macassey NN
jve...@husc.harvard.edu YY
jw...@nyx10.cs.du.edu The WolF YN
k...@radford.vak12ed.edu Ken A. Yousten Y-
k...@omnigroup.com Ken Case YY
k...@dsd.camb.inmet.com Kevin Coram Y-
k...@template.com David Kiker YY
ken...@deakin.edu.au Kenneth Sproat YN
kev...@sco.COM Kevin Pondy YY
k...@dcs.gla.ac.uk YY
ki...@netcom.com Kimbo Beattie YY
kin...@isis.cgd.ucar.EDU Rodney Kinney YN
kiy...@mcl.mcl.ucsb.edu Daniel Sabath YY
k...@panix.com Kevin Maroney YY
kl...@snarc.greenie.muc.de Klaus Weidner YY
kna...@ibeam.intel.com Rob Knauerhase NN
kn...@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu kent nordstrom YY
KOC...@stsci.edu That was zen, this is tao YY
kog...@vesta.unm.edu Taki Kogoma YY
kol...@clark.edu Roger M Kolaks YY
KRA...@RCL.WAU.NL Mark R. Kramer YY
kru...@u.washington.edu Kirby Krueger YY
k...@eng.tridom.com Kevin Valerien YY
ksch...@ua.d.umn.edu Kurt Schroeder YY
kssi...@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de Klaus Singvogel YY
ku...@soda.berkeley.edu Donald J. Kubasak YY
kuhl...@acpub.duke.edu Kurt Kuhlmann YY
ku...@umiacs.UMD.EDU Y-
ku...@sue.econ.su.oz.au Kurt Frank YY
L1...@ZFN.UNI-BREMEN.DE Martin Schroeder YY
l...@biostat.mc.duke.edu Lance A. Brown YN
la...@midway.uchicago.edu Laurie Christianson YY
LAI...@stsci.edu YY
LAMB...@DELPHI.COM LAMB...@DELPHI.COM YY
la...@canard.fc.hp.com John J. Lang YY
lant...@ghost.dsi.unimi.it stefano lanticina YY
lar...@col.hp.com Larry Neal YY
lar...@cs.umr.edu YY
Lawrenc...@mixcom.mixcom.com Lawrence Sweet YY
le...@pigpen.asf.com Lee Short YY
l...@matrx.matrix.com Larry Grossman Y-
le...@po.cwru.edu Lewis Jones YY
LEL...@csc.afit.af.mil YY
LIN...@SARA.NL Rick te Lindert YY
li...@enif.astro.indiana.edu Robert... YY
ll...@EMX.CC.UTEXAS.EDU Mark Opaskar Y-
lon...@judy.indstate.edu Lonadar the Wanderer -Y
lon...@crim.ca Mathieu Longtin YN
lon...@meaddata.com Lonnie Barnett YY
loo...@glarus.gsfc.nasa.gov Andrew J. Looney YY
lo...@huey.vp.uiuc.edu Chris Lopez YY
lo...@snake.CS.Berkeley.EDU Jay Lorch Y-
LPAR...@EAGLE.WESLEYAN.EDU YY
l...@inel.gov Randolph M. Pacetti YY
LT522_...@emuvax.emich.edu Robert Winterhalter (Goddard Lab Consultan YN
lt...@faraday.clas.virginia.edu Leonard Thomas Harris YY
luc...@dsiaq4.ing.univaq.it Gino Lucrezi YY
m15...@urz-mail.urz.uni-heidelberg.de Bernert, Alexander YN
m...@wdl.loral.com Mark A Biggar YY
ma...@morse.cns.vt.edu Kurt Adam YY
Magnus....@eua.ericsson.se Magnus Lindberg YY
mal...@ee.rochester.edu Derek Mallory YY
mal...@nprdc.navy.mil Sean Malloy YY
ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk Alistair Caunt YY
mar...@zso.dec.com shawn marier YY
mark.e....@lmsc.lockheed.com Mark E. Johnson YY
ma...@pulse.com Mark C. Orton YY
mar...@callisto.pas.rochester.edu Andrew Markiel YY
marr...@CS.YALE.EDU Leon Marr YY
mar...@GS94.SP.CS.CMU.EDU YY
mar...@cs.uchicago.edu Charles Martin YY
mar...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk Marc A Wienen Y-
ma...@lclark.edu Matt Alexander YY
matt...@vnet.IBM.COM Matthew C. Drew YN
mat...@sa.rl.ac.uk Matthew Bassett YY
matt...@cs.kuleuven.ac.be Matthijs Frank Y-
ma...@csv.warwick.ac.uk M J Cleaton YY
mau...@david.wheaton.edu Mark Aubrey YY
ma...@tower.wizards.com Peter 'The Incarnation Of Primal' Adkison YY
ma...@illuminati.io.com Paul C Pinkosh YY
m...@greyskul.intel.com Mike Northam YY
mbo...@relay.nswc.navy.mil YY
me...@wdl.loral.com Miguel Echavarria YY
m...@servalan.demon.co.uk Melanie Dymond Harper YY
mer...@fungusaur.wizards.com Jenny Scott YY
m...@cbncp51.att.com YY
m...@ac.duke.edu Michael Grubb YY
m...@cis.ufl.edu YY
mhans...@attmail.att.com YY
mhy...@galaxy.csc.calpoly.edu Mark K. Hyman YY
mike...@cie-2.uoregon.edu Michael Ehli NY
minn...@raven.math.usu.edu Mike Minnotte YY
MITC...@carleton.edu I'm probably lost right now. YY
mitt...@MIT.EDU YY
mit...@dave.enet.dec.com Dave Mitton, Networks Eng. 08-Feb-1994 1654 YY
mj...@cc.bellcore.com YY
mkku...@genetics.washington.edu Mary K. Kuhner YY
mmo...@linc.cis.upenn.edu Michael B. Moore YY
m...@RedBrick.COM Maxime Taksar KC6ZPS NY
mor...@wais.com Harry Morris YY
m...@netcom.com MPR Associates Inc YY
mrh...@mrc-crc.ac.uk Dr. M. Rhodes YN
mrh...@netcom.com Mr. Hyde YY
ms15...@longs.lance.colostate.edu YY
m...@casbah.acns.nwu.edu Michael Rosenberg YY
m...@vexpert.dbai.tuwien.ac.at Markus Stumptner YY
mu...@radon.eecs.berkeley.edu David C Mudie YY
mu...@idiom.berkeley.ca.us David Muir Sharnoff Y-
mul...@ecn.purdue.edu Mark B. Muller YY
mun...@acacia.CS.Berkeley.EDU Ethan V. Munson YY
MUR...@CUA.EDU JOSEPH MAXIMILLIAN MURPHY YN
must...@CMU.EDU Mustafa Unlu YY
mza...@acs.ucalgary.ca Mark Zaugg YY
na...@shelter.usafa.af.mil Capt Bill Nace YN
NAR...@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU Randy Finder YY
nat...@genetics.washington.edu NatChat Discussion List YY
ne...@uidaho.edu Neal Ulen YY
ne...@cs.colostate.edu andrew neely YY
ne...@arc.ug.eds.com Neil Taylor YY
new...@eece.maine.edu Bryan D. Newman YY
nf...@cix.compulink.co.uk Neil Ford YY
ni...@scs.apana.org.au Nick Gaut YY
njoh...@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu Nathan D. Johnson YY
nrow...@nl.oracle.com Nick Roworth YY
nsm...@tms390.micro.ti.com Neal Smith YY
NURN...@carleton.edu chrestomathy of subconscious yearnings YY
od...@reed.edu Iain Odlin YY
ori215...@emunix.emich.edu YN
ORI247...@emuvax.emich.edu YN
osb...@UnbSJ.CA Steve Osborne YY
ott...@ifi.unit.no Ottar Dahle YY
OT...@vaxb.acs.unt.edu M. Otto NY
pa...@astro.ocis.temple.edu Paul Paire YY
paol...@arctic.cps.msu.edu David R. Paoletti YY
parn...@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz PI-RAT YY
pa...@thesis.com Paul Johnson YY
pau...@aplcenmp.apl.jhu.edu Mcnamee john paul (410) 792-6000 x3816 YY
pd...@ai.mit.edu John McClain YY
pdu...@world.std.com Paul C Duggan YN
peter....@synth.tvk.tsoft.net Peter Donald YY
Peter=Nowak%RD%PSE=O...@banyan.siemens.co.at YY
pet...@physics.ubc.ca Dan Peters YY
pet...@mohlsun.physics.upenn.edu David Pettey (tl) YY
pf...@Think.COM Raymond Pfaff Y-
phae...@halcyon.halcyon.com Mark Phaedrus YY
Philip...@cs.kuleuven.ac.be Phil Dutre YY
PH...@cc.usu.edu Phil YN
phi...@clare.Eng.Sun.COM Geoffrey Phipps YY
pin...@uhunix.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu Paul Pinkosh YY
pi...@mu.sans.vuw.ac.nz Paul David Parnell YY
pi...@mimosa.astro.indiana.edu Jim Pitts YY
p...@ssd.ray.com Alberg YN
p...@parint.esl.com Paul Gyugyi YY
pkam...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca Peter Kaminski YY
p...@HQ.ileaf.com Peter L. DeWolf YY
pm3_...@csd.uwe.ac.uk Paul Norris YY
pmwg...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Peter M. White YY
p...@fokker.fc.hp.com Daryl Poe YY
pp...@Niksula.hut.fi Petri Juhani Piira YY
PRATT_G...@Lilly.com YY
pri...@hpserv.keh.utulsa.edu charlie prince YY
psi...@mailserv.zdv.uni-tuebingen.de Peter Kretschmar YY
ps...@csd.uu.se Dan Pettersson NY
p...@acsu.buffalo.edu Strider YY
p...@netcom.com Tom Lehmann YY
pw...@afit.af.mil Paul R. Work YY
p_at...@csd.uwe-bristol.ac.uk P Atcliffe YY
qu...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU Michael J. Quinn YY
raga...@student.msu.edu Daniel Martin Ragatz Y-
r...@alumni.cco.caltech.edu Roger A. Lighty YY
ra...@spss.com Ralph Brendler YY
ram...@hubcap.clemson.edu Russell A. Martin Y-
ran...@numachi.numachi.com Lorne Lehrer YY
ra...@freezer.cns.udel.edu Brian Rapp YY
rat...@ccs.neu.edu Richard Pieri YY
rave...@cnj.digex.com Joel Chambers YY
rc...@acpub.duke.edu Robert Lonon YY
rd...@slate.Mines.Colorado.EDU Deis YN
r...@io.org Robin Laws YY
rdu...@math.cornell.edu Richard Dunlap - Grad - Wahlbin YY
re...@stsci.edu Christian Ready YY
reu...@hydra.rose.brandeis.edu Kent Reuber YY
re...@midway.uchicago.edu Sendhil Revuluri NY
rhk...@acf4.NYU.EDU rhk8563 Y-
rh...@med.unc.edu Rick Hunt YY
ri...@bcm.tmc.edu Richard H. Miller YN
rip...@e7sa.epi.syr.ge.com Dave Ripton YY
r...@ihlpl.att.com YY
rno...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca Randy Nonay YY
r...@moray.Berkeley.EDU Rob Reiss YY
rob...@inviso.com Robbie Westmoreland YN
robe...@bend.UCSD.EDU Bruce Roberson [K consultant] Y-
rober...@vnet.IBM.COM Robert Meyer YY
Rob_Kno...@aurm44.aur.alcatel.com Rob Knowles YY
rog...@agora.rain.com Roger Bonzer YY
ro...@informix.com YN
r...@meiko.co.uk Roy Bottomley YY
rp0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu Robert Stephen Parker YY
rshi...@IO.COM Rich Shipley YY
rt...@netcom.com Rob Tsuk YY
ry...@wes.mot.com Mike Ryan YY
s19...@hp.rmc.ca Andrew Cowie YY
sa...@umcc.umich.edu Micheal Marks YN
SAA...@vms.cis.pitt.edu NN
sampsa...@mpoli.fi Sampsa Hario YY
sandia!ma...@cs.unm.edu Mike Arms 9432 YY
sa...@eskimo.com Perhaps a Princess... YY
sar...@gamma.hut.fi Sami Koskinen YY
sch...@symcom.math.uiuc.edu Ken Schalk YY
sch...@math.berkeley.edu mark schlatter YY
sch...@vfl.paramax.com YY
sci...@oasys.dt.navy.mil Mark Zimmermann Y-
sco...@kinglear.cs.Colorado.EDU Lee Scott YY
sdev...@fys.ruu.nl Sjoerd de Vries YY
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se...@porsche.visix.COM Sean E. Trowbridge YY
s...@hpfiqa.fc.hp.com Sheila Davis YY
SFFG_...@VAX1.ACS.JMU.EDU YY
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sh...@indirect.com Michael Ray NN
sha...@cube.net Alexander Siegelin YY
sha...@physics.orst.edu Karl Shank YY
shar...@mal-s1.gatech.edu Scott H. Harriss YY
shi...@rpi.edu Larry Shields Y-
ship...@u.washington.edu Tim Shippert YY
sh...@indial1.io.com Earl Cooley YY
sho...@ll.mit.edu Daniel Shoham YN
sh...@horton.Colorado.EDU David R. Shook YY
sht...@herald.usask.ca Shane Hamish William Travis YN
sim...@netcom.com Bob Simpson YY
SIMP...@sask.usask.ca YY
s...@umr.edu Pete Jennings YY
sj...@compass-da.com Jim Shiffer YY
slo...@IO.COM Brett Slocum YY
sma...@turing.toronto.edu Marc Moorcroft NN
SMX...@PORTLAND.CAPS.MAINE.EDU Larry Irish YY
sn...@wizards.com Dave Howell YY
s...@oz.plymouth.edu Steffan O'Sullivan YY
spca...@david.wheaton.edu Sam P Cattle YY
spe...@cwis.unomaha.edu Tom Spencer Y-
sri...@cs.rit.edu Shawn R Isenhart YY
ST00...@BROWNVM.brown.edu Andrew Brecher YY
star...@u.washington.edu Sarah Skovronsky YY
std_f...@hg.uleth.ca YY
ster...@mrj.com Chris Sterritt YY
st...@plume.ies.ncsu.edu YY
ste...@CS.Berkeley.EDU Steven Alexander YY
st...@lise.unit.no Stig Hemmer YY
s...@qdot.qld.gov.au Shaun Travers YY
stra...@seattleu.edu Paul R. Stratton YY
str...@Glue.umd.edu Josh Osborne YN
strz...@bnlku5.phy.bnl.gov Robert J Strzelinski YY
s...@valinor.mythical.com Stu Labovitz NY
stu...@TC.Cornell.EDU Stuart Blavatnik YY
stu...@gvgadg.gvg.tek.com Stuart Smith YY
st...@macc.wisc.edu James Stuht YY
suc...@palm.cray.com Casimir John Suchyta YY
sula...@arctic.cps.msu.edu Lawrence E Su YY
sum...@acs.bu.edu Charles Sumner YY
su...@buck.cqs.washington.edu Jonathan Sari YY
sve...@gfi.uib.no YY
swi...@unixg.ubc.ca Stephen R Wicks YY
t...@ISI.EDU NY
TB...@utkvx.utk.edu Wolf of the Shadows YY
tec...@micromed.com Robert Mc Daniel NY
tec...@netaxs.com Timothy Binder YY
t...@FICUS.CS.UCLA.EDU Ted Kim (Random Dude) YY
ter...@smiley.mitre.org Terry Rooker YN
Thomas....@Dartmouth.EDU Thomas F. Guevin YN
Thomas....@Eng.Sun.COM Tom Granvold YY
tho...@tudor.com Tom Fontaine Y-
thom...@ENGR.ORST.EDU Jon Thompson YY
thom...@nas.nasa.gov Keith C. Thompson YY
thor...@cs.umn.edu David H. Thornley YY
tie...@agora.rain.com Britt Klein YY
t...@eecg.toronto.edu Tim Trant YY
ti...@oneway.austin.ibm.com timsk YY
ti...@informix.com YN
tja...@iesde.att.com -Y
t...@tukki.jyu.fi Topi Paavola YY
tko...@cassandra.cair.du.edu Ted Koppel NN
to...@MIT.EDU Toby Richard James Elliott YN
to...@efi.com Todd Tope YY
tor...@pvv.unit.no Tor Iver Wilhelmsen YY
tp0...@uhura.cc.rochester.edu Thomas Parker YY
t...@strdev.jhuapl.edu Tony Nardo YY
tro...@cgl.ucsf.EDU YY
tr...@pluto.dss.com Tony Ryan YN
ts...@kelvin.enet.dec.com 1994 0900 YY
ucg...@ucl.ac.uk ucgbrmv YY
ull...@fnrobo.fnal.gov Roberto Ullfig YY
umin...@CC.UManitoba.CA YY
umkn...@mcs.drexel.edu Mike Knauer YY
upl...@cwis.unomaha.edu John M. Scheibeler YY
u...@magi.ncsl.nist.gov YY
V066...@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu Space Ghost NY
v93...@si.hhs.nl Gustav Rossner YY
vap...@cad.gatech.edu S. Keith Graham YY
vfr...@netcom.com Will Hartung YY
Ville.L...@m.cc.utah.edu Ville Lavonius YY
vl...@dcs.warwick.ac.uk Vladimir Dancik YY
v...@hp1.imm.rwth-aachen.de volker marx YY
wac...@cc.helsinki.fi Markku Kristian Wachter YY
WAL...@VAX2.Winona.MSUS.EDU How many Magic: The Gathering cards do YOU YY
wa...@cedar.nrl.navy.mil Dennis Wang YN
wat...@coos.dartmouth.edu Markus A. Laine Y-
way...@bnr.ca wayne (w.m.) maclaurin YY
wcol...@nyx.cs.du.edu Winston Collier YY
wes...@aclcb.purdue.edu Rick Westerman YY
wes...@sequent.com Vince Westin Y-
wg...@aber.ac.uk wgo2 YN
WHITE%DUVM....@pucc.Princeton.EDU Avid Reader - Fledgling Writer YY
whut...@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu wade hutchison YY
wi...@SSD.intel.com YN
William....@math.lsa.umich.edu William Jockusch YY
w...@saluton.hacktic.nl Wim Koolhoven YY
win...@emunix.emich.edu Twist YN
wla...@vnet.IBM.COM Lynn Allen Phone:(303)924-4972 YY
wood...@cae.wisc.edu YY
woo...@tower.wizards.com Lisa Stevens YY
wo...@snakemail.hut.fi YY
w...@cblpd.att.com YN
xe...@iastate.edu Gary L Snethen YY
xfa...@math.ucr.edu math9c student YY
xl...@netcom.com Steve Kohler YY
yd...@CS.Stanford.EDU Judy Anderson YY
Votes in error
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bmwa...@artsci.wustl.edu Bryan Munroe Walker
! No vote statement in message
buckin...@kosmos.wcc.govt.nz
! No vote statement in message
GAR...@utkvx.utk.edu
! No vote statement in message
wcw...@acs.bu.edu Wendy Weber
! No vote statement in message