Auto Racing Perfection
Eddy Bee
the years many games have brought Formula 1, NASCAR, and even the Indy
500 to our table tops.
Some of these games try to stay true to their theme and attempt to
implement a reasonable abstraction of reality in their design. Others
simply use the theme as window dressing for an underlying game
mechanic that is suited to racing.
Many games have been produced in both categories:
- Formula De
- Ausgebremst
- Top Race
- Pitstop
- Daytona 500
- Grand Prix
- Carabande
- Motor Champ
- Detroit-Cleveland Grand Prix
- Speed Circuit
- Das Motorspiel
- Formel Fun
- Grand Prix
- Stock Car Championship Racing
and many others...
For me, "Speed Circuit" is by far and away the best of the bunch,
because of its tension-filled gameplay and how well it implements many
of the key decisions and dynamics of an actual race. But it doesn't
always appeal to the casual gamer. For that, I feel "Daytona 500"
delivers the goods.
That said, I've only had an opportunity to try a handful of the games
listed above, so perhaps you'd like to contribute your thoughts and
opinions about these and other auto racing games...
Keep well,
-Eddy Bee
"Once a gamer, always a gamer!"
Dave & Theresa Vander Ark
Eddy Bee wrote:
>
> A popular board game genre is the auto racing game/simulation. Over
> the years many games have brought Formula 1, NASCAR, and even the Indy
> 500 to our table tops.
>
> Some of these games try to stay true to their theme and attempt to
> implement a reasonable abstraction of reality in their design. Others
> simply use the theme as window dressing for an underlying game
> mechanic that is suited to racing.
>
> Many games have been produced in both categories:
> - Formula De
I've painted myself and this is a game that hits the table often here.
Downside is that it isn't a very good simulation, and some of the rules
are a little strange (slipstreaming, etc.). I rate this a 7.
> - Ausgebremst
I have played this one once and liked it. Modular board that allows for
different tracks. Not easy for a first-time player to understand how to
choose cards for the race. Still, it's a very good game and does a nice
job meeting the conflicting goals of smooth gameplay and simulation
value. I rate this one a solid 6, it could go up for me if I had a copy
and really learned the system.
> - Top Race
> - Pitstop
I haven't played either of these
> - Daytona 500
I like this one a lot, and I'm not that much of a NASCAR fan. Well
balanced (luck vs. skill) because you bid to control the car you think
you can best maneuver through the course. Drafting rules are logical,
corner lines make sense, and the entire thing plays in an hour or so. A
solid 7, maybe an 8.
> - Grand Prix
I haven't played this one
> - Carabande
Doesn't meet the definition of an auto racing game. It's a skill and
action game. It's very fun, but not an auto racing game. A 6.
> - Motor Champ
This one is very cool. The race cars are about HO scale. They have
little holes in the back that you insert pegs into to indicate how many
laps you have completed, and if you have pitted or not. The one thing I
didn't like about the game was the elimination factor, which seemed
pretty extreme, although that may have been the lead-footed drivers at
the table. I've read session reports commenting on how people familiar
with the game have been consistent winners, so I think the luck factor
is something that goes away with experience. But at the cost of this
game, I dont' know if it's worth investing the time to really learn the
game. It's 3 times the cost of Formula De. Rate this one a 6.5
> - Detroit-Cleveland Grand Prix
Basically the same game as Daytona 500 (and several others by Wolfgang
Kramer which use that system) but the courses are road courses instead
of the Daytona oval. It's good but I like D500 better. I rate this one
a 6.5
> - Speed Circuit
Another great game, especially when you have the chance to custom build
your car. The basic cornering system (pick a speed and stay in line
with the safety speeds given per lane) was originally used in
Waddington's Formula 1 game (also released in the US by Parker
Brothers). Speed circuit is a little bit more detailed than F1, but the
3M version of SC uses dashboards to record speed, which I think show the
direct evolution from F1. The biggest downside to SC is the lack of
tracks other than the 3 that come with the game. Unless of course you
have the $150 or so to buy the elusive Avalon Hill track expansion
pack. A 7, maybe a 7.5.
> - Das Motorspiel
Great bits, great game, but needs to be played under a time limit to
force you to feel the tension of split-second decision making that has
to happen in a race. (I have a $7 electronic kitchen timer that works
great). Another one that's on the overpriced side of things, but those
cars are pretty darn cool. I ended up buying 6 NASCAR Micromachines for
my set since they fit on the track better. But still, the board is
about 3 by 5 FEET big! A 7
> - Formel Fun
Haven't played this one.
> - Grand Prix
Is this a different "Grand Prix" than the one I haven't played above? I
haven't played this one either.
Actually, the only Grand Prix game I've played is the kid game by
Ravensburger where you have big plastic cars on real wheels and the
course is built one tile at a time. When you reach the last tile there
is a cul de sac tile and you race back the way you came to the start
line. On your turn you decide to build or to roll the die and move that
amount. It's pretty much all kid stuff, but it's fun. As a kid game
it's a 6, as a serious race game it's a 5...not all that much to it.
> - Stock Car Championship Racing
Can't find this one, haven't played it. Supposed to be very good.
> and many others...
See my comments on Parker Brothers/Waddingtons Formula 1. I really like
this game, it's up there with Speed Circuit for me even though it's
simpler. It includes Tactics cards which you can use to gain advantages
in movement at certain points during the race. This throws a bit of
luck into the race, (there is almost none in Speed Cirucuit), but this
is not such a bad thing in a racing game. A 7
Another one I have but haven't played is USAC Auto Racing, the
Indianoplis 500 game by Avalon Hill. It includes 33 plastic cars that
you use to recreate the Indy 500. You can do the entire 500 miles if
you want, with pit stops, etc. Looks like it might be OK, maybe good,
not great. Well worth the dollar I spent on it at Goodwill even if I
don't play it for another year.
Formula Motor Racing by GMT is a Reiner Knizia cardgame that is pretty
fun, but a poor simulation of a race. You maneuver in the line of cars,
playing for position. You have two cars and your score is based on how
well both of them finish. I enjoy the game, and rate it a 6.
Jumbo Grand Prix is another Knizia cardgame that is really a set
collecting game. Sort of like rummy. You try to create the best
racecar by collecting the highest scoring combination of driver, engine,
body, and tires (I think) all of the same color. OK game, but not
really a racing game, just themed like one a little bit. A 5.5.
>
> For me, "Speed Circuit" is by far and away the best of the bunch,
> because of its tension-filled gameplay and how well it implements many
> of the key decisions and dynamics of an actual race. But it doesn't
> always appeal to the casual gamer. For that, I feel "Daytona 500"
> delivers the goods.
>
I tend to agree with you. If you want a game like Speed Circuit that
would appeal to the casual gamer, try Formula 1. Daytona 500 is pretty
good. Formula De is also very good, and is very conducive to setting up
a league of 10-12 races on different ciruits and using special league
rules. Links to different house rules for leagues can be found many
places online.
> That said, I've only had an opportunity to try a handful of the games
> listed above, so perhaps you'd like to contribute your thoughts and
> opinions about these and other auto racing games...
>
capsule summaries already contributed.
> Keep well,
> -Eddy Bee
>
> "Once a gamer, always a gamer!"
Dave
Remove the extradot to email me
Greg
it down because of the dice and how luck plays a big part of it. But I
love it anyway. I like the fact that it is easy to learn but has
rules that can expand as you play the game more. This allows me to
have non gamers come in to play with out a long drawn out instruction
period. They can learn the basics in 10 - 15 minutes. I love the
different boards (tracks) you can buy. I love the quality of the game.
I also think it simulates racing fairly well. I'm sure there are other
racing games that have more of the stradigy of real racing but for me
I would pick Formula De.
edd...@yahoo.com (Eddy Bee) wrote in message news:<a52daba1.02030...@posting.google.com>...
Glen
stuff for my game store, slowly building up new inventory (it was about to go
under when I purchased the store a few months ago) and wondered what racing
games to get. I've been to a racing school (Skip Barber) so know what it takes
to race a road course. Looks like Speed Circuit is the best simulation? I've
heard good things about Formula De, but my casual glance at it some time ago
didn't give me the impression of being a good simulation but may be fun for the
"kiddies" to play (the ones that play Mage Knight).
Thanks again!
Glen
Greg Aleknevicus
>I love Formula De. I realize all the hard core gamers are going to put
>it down because of the dice and how luck plays a big part of it. But I
>love it anyway. I like the fact that it is easy to learn but has
>rules that can expand as you play the game more. This allows me to
>have non gamers come in to play with out a long drawn out instruction
>period. They can learn the basics in 10 - 15 minutes. I love the
>different boards (tracks) you can buy. I love the quality of the game.
I enjoy Formula De on occassion as well and mostly agree with what
you've said. I take great exception to the following comment though:
>I also think it simulates racing fairly well.
What REALLY bothers me about Formula De is that it doesn't simulate
racing well at all. For the most part there are three issues in "real
life" racing:
1) the difficulty and challenge of passing cars
2) forming a clean line around the course
3) the strategy and timing of when to pit
Issue 3 is handled not badly in the game. Yes, there are problems but
its rather difficult to simulate pitting in a game that only has 1, 2
or 3 laps.
Issue 1 is almost a complete non issue in the game. Very rarely do you
have any difficulty passing a car, you simply do it.
However, it's issue 2 that keeps me from really loving the game. The
"best" path through a curve in Formula De is almost always the exact
opposite of what it is in real life. Normally you want to "smooth out"
curves when racing and take a direct line through them. In Formula De,
you usually want to EXAGGERATE any curves so that they're even more
twisty than they really are.
An enjoyable "game" but a good "simulation"? No way.
Greg Aleknevicus
Editor, The Games Journal
http://www.thegamesjournal.com
Anthony Simons
<snip>
> See my comments on Parker Brothers/Waddingtons Formula 1. I really like
> this game, it's up there with Speed Circuit for me even though it's
> simpler. It includes Tactics cards which you can use to gain advantages
> in movement at certain points during the race. This throws a bit of
> luck into the race, (there is almost none in Speed Cirucuit), but this
> is not such a bad thing in a racing game. A 7
I haven't tried Speed Circuit yet (I have just won it on an Ebay
auction so it won't be long now); but I do know that Formula 1 is
perhaps the best motor racing boardgame out there.
I feel the luck is not something anybody should draw focus to, as
tactics cards are always advantageous and the players all have five to
play at their discretion.
A little more luck is involved when pits cards are drawn, as no player
knows what is going to be turned up; but most of the time they involve
missing a turn while changes and repairs are made to their car so
again there are no surprises.
The only real luck element is the dice roll for ascertaining wear to
brakes and tyres, or the possibility of spinning off at a bend; and as
anybody who has played can say, the probability is different depending
on how fast over the safe limit the bend is taken.
I believe Formula 1 would take some beating when it comes to this type
of game; but I also feel it plays better with more cars. I used to
play it with friends when I was a boy, and we ended up racing 2 cars
each because there was just not enough opportunity to apply the
tactics inherent to the game (baulking, or blocking the safest lanes
for example).
Has anybody tried interchanging tracks between games? I came up with
a basic idea for using Formule De tracks for Formula 1:
1) Play by the normal Formula 1 rules except for those given below
(this includes the damage table and baulking where all 3 lanes are
blocked).
2) The outer lane of a bend is the lane on the longest edge of the
bend, the inner lane is the lane on the shortest edge of the bend and
the middle lane is the one inbetween. The bend exists for as long as
each space has a red border.
3) The safe speed for a bend numbered 1 is 140 for the outer lane,
reduced by 20 for each lane in (so that the middle is safe at 120, and
the inside is safe at 100).
4) The safe speed for a 2 bend is 120 for the outer lane, reduced by
20 for each lane in.
5) The safe speed for a 3 bend is 100 for the outer lane, reduced by
20 for each lane in.
6) Cars travel one space for every 10mph speed. All acceleration and
deceleration rules remain the same, but cars may now travel in
multiples of 10mph by placing the needle of their speedometer clearly
between two existing numbers.
You could, if you have more than one Formula 1 set, race teams as per
Formule De. Or you could make your own dashboards and do this, or
even use pencil & paper to keep track of vehicle speed and wear. Any
thoughts, let me know.
Frank Branham
> the years many games have brought Formula 1, NASCAR, and even the Indy
> 500 to our table tops.
Curiously, I think my favorite is Formula One. The old Parker Brothers
game that seems to be an ancestor of Speed Circuit. It uses the same
basic set speed and move model. The plus side (and possibly the
downside for some) are a set of event cards that makes the game a
little less predictable. Our games of Speed Circuit tend to have very
few lead changes.
Also...I've played Pit Stop a couple of times. It strikes me as
making you make the same critical speed decision as Formula De, but it
seems to move faster. It ditches lanes, allowing the cars to pass
other cars freely, as long as enough cars don't occupy the same space.
One other game that is interesting is Tacara. Awful components, and it
doesn't feel at all like auto racing. It uses a 2D vector movement
system that is kind of cool.
Moo
Frank
RRI1
>On 2 Mar 2002 21:47:09 -0800, gza...@pacbell.net (Greg) wrote:
>I enjoy Formula De on occassion as well and mostly agree with what
>you've said. I take great exception to the following comment though:
>
>>I also think it simulates racing fairly well.
>
>What REALLY bothers me about Formula De is that it doesn't simulate
>racing well at all. For the most part there are three issues in "real
>life" racing:
>
>1) the difficulty and challenge of passing cars
>2) forming a clean line around the course
>3) the strategy and timing of when to pit
Actually there are far more issues than this: aerodynamics, gear selection,
car set up, engineering, sponsorship and budget issues, etc. No racing board
game simulates them all ;-)
>Issue 3 is handled not badly in the game. Yes, there are problems but
>its rather difficult to simulate pitting in a game that only has 1, 2
>or 3 laps.
>
>Issue 1 is almost a complete non issue in the game. Very rarely do you
>have any difficulty passing a car, you simply do it.
Actually, difficulty in passing a car is subject to elements: blocking tactics
and aerodynamics. In modern Formula One racing, much of the grip of the car is
provided the aerodynamics. In fact the aerodynamic design of the car produces
about 4000 lbs of down force under optimum conditions. This means you can
drive an F1 car (which by rules weighs under 1500 lbs fully fueled with driver)
UPSIDE DOWN--just don't slow down. ;-)
However, when you are attempting to pass another car, the leading car disturbs
the air for the passing car, which reduces aerodynamic down force on the
trailing car. The best ways to pass is to close on the curve before a long
straightway. Unfortunately, as a passing car closes in, he loses aerodynamic
grip and has to slow down just make the curve. That's why it is so hard to
pass in Formula 1.
Other forms of motor racing depend less on the aerodynamics and more on
mechanical grip in the tires. Also in oval racing, the tracks are banked which
also aids in keeping the cars on the curves. In those forms of motor racing,
there is a lot more passing.
AFAIK, there is NO racing board game that simulates aerodynamics in an
effective manner.
>However, it's issue 2 that keeps me from really loving the game. The
>"best" path through a curve in Formula De is almost always the exact
>opposite of what it is in real life. Normally you want to "smooth out"
>curves when racing and take a direct line through them. In Formula De,
>you usually want to EXAGGERATE any curves so that they're even more
>twisty than they really are.
>
>An enjoyable "game" but a good "simulation"? No way.
There is also a very important issue you missed: Car speed/gear selection in
the curves. Some would say that this is the MOST important element to simulate
in a racing board game.
Formula De actually does a good job of simulating this. In order to play
Formula De well, you simply must be in the correct gear on each curve and you
must be in as high a gear as possible upon exiting of the curve. Failure to do
so will slow you down.
Granted, FDe does this in a gamey, not at all realistic, manner. (As you point
out, best route in FDe is often the longest one, whereas in real racing it is
the shortest route) But is effective. Generally to complete the same curve on
the real track, you must be in the same gear in Formula De.
Let's give it some credit where it deserves it.
Richard Irving rr...@aol.com
Made with recycled electrons!
RRI1
Top Race is the same system as Detroit/Cleveland Grand Prix, Nikki Lauda
Formula Ein, etc. Wolfgang Kramer's racing games. The main new element is
adding betting: As the leader passes 3 points on the track, each player may
bet on a car (not necessarily his own, but it may be). At the end of the race,
the bets are paid off on the basis of where the bets was made and the final
finish position of the car. Betting early and getting it right offers a large
payoff. Betting late and getting it wrong gives a large penalty.
Daytona 500 is also in this series, but it has significant differences.
> - Pitstop
This is a new Italian racing game. (It is available from Funagain.)
The track is built from lots of pieces representing curves and round markers to
show the speed limit in each curve. 8 real tracks are provided in the game and
others are found on the companies website.
Track has enough width to carry 3 cards in the same space. But there are no
lanes as such.
Each turn, you roll a number of dice equal to the current gear you are in and
you may choose (before rolling) to use your "speed bonus" (50 kph if you are
in 1st , 2nd or 3rd gear, 100 kph if you are in a higher gear. You cannot
choose to use half of your speed bonus.) Each die is a special D6 with 50's on
4 of the 6 sides, 1 circled 50 (which indicates a "fuel" points (these points
actually act more like an engine damage rule--if you "run out of fuel" you lose
acceleration and the circled 50's act like blanks) used--but only if you finish
your move in a straight), 1 blank side. You add you speed bonus and the
number of 50's rolled and move one space per 50 kph.
After you move, you set the gear for your next turn. You may increase by no
moree than 2 levels (one of you are out of fuel), and decrease it by no more
than 3 levels.
On the curves, for each space you move in the curve (which can cover several
track pieces), lose lose 1 tire wear point per 50 kph per space that you are
over the speed limit. (So 100 kph over the limit for 3 spaces = 6 tire points
lost. OUCH!)
If you decide to pit, you will be delayed 2-4 turns and if you decide to refuel
and change tires, the chances for increased delay are higher.
The race is supposed to be 3 laps, but 2 is usually sufficient for a 2 hour+
game.
The rules are translated in English, French, Spanish, Dutch and German as well
as Italian. However, the English translation is REALLY BAD, especially on
slipstreaming. (It was missing a whole paragraph on the slipstreaming rules!)
Their website has clarification on these rules, but unfortunately it is in
Italian. I translated them and have a file on the Gaming Dumpster.
(www.gamingdumpster.com)
It similar to Formula De, but the ability to building any track you like.
>> - Stock Car Championship Racing
This is a card game That simulate NASCAR pretty well:
There is a track deck (with different cards to simlate short or large ovals)
and each player has a driver deck.
At the start of the turn, a track card is drawn which usually indicates a
number of laps completed in the race. (also crashes, car damage, lost speed
etc can occur on the draw of this card.) If a yellow flag card comes up, the
pits can be entered. (In the advanced game, there are alos green flag
pitstops, which can put you far behind the lead group.)
Each player must discard a number of cards with a Lap value equal to or greater
than the number of laps completed in the turn. Each player may now play a
number of action cards, but can play no more than 3 total discarded cards and
action cards. Response cards may always be played to respond to the an
opponents action--block a passing attempt, draft a leading car as he tries to
pull away, etc.
Then the players draw 3 cards to the maximum hand size.
Greg Aleknevicus
>greg@pacificoast,net wrote:
>>On 2 Mar 2002 21:47:09 -0800, gza...@pacbell.net (Greg) wrote:
>>I enjoy Formula De on occassion as well and mostly agree with what
>>you've said. I take great exception to the following comment though:
>>
>>>I also think it simulates racing fairly well.
>>
>>What REALLY bothers me about Formula De is that it doesn't simulate
>>racing well at all. For the most part there are three issues in "real
>>life" racing:
>>
>>1) the difficulty and challenge of passing cars
>>2) forming a clean line around the course
>>3) the strategy and timing of when to pit
>
>Actually there are far more issues than this: aerodynamics, gear selection,
>car set up, engineering, sponsorship and budget issues, etc. No racing board
>game simulates them all ;-)
You are correct of course. I MEANT to say that these were the three
*most important* issues in "real racing".
>Granted, FDe does this in a gamey, not at all realistic, manner. (As you point
>out, best route in FDe is often the longest one, whereas in real racing it is
>the shortest route) But is effective. Generally to complete the same curve on
>the real track, you must be in the same gear in Formula De.
>
>Let's give it some credit where it deserves it.
Granted. Gear selection is a somewhat non-intuitive feature of the
game and a requirement for doing well. In fact, figuring out clever
ways in which to change gears is the games most enjoyable feature and
the reason I still play despite my problem with the goofy "racing
lines".
Gregory Smith
cousins), Grand Prix, Formula Motor Racing, and Formula One. I still love
to play Formula One. Speed Circuit was my second racing game after Formula
One, originally played in the 3M version and then in the Avalon Hill
version. Although I most enjoy the game because it is a battle of wits
rather than die rolls, I think the little bit of luck injected into the game
by Avalon Hill actually improved it. I own several of the add-on courses
produced by Avalon Hill, but it remains a good game regardless of the
course.
Wonderful game. I do want to try out Das Motorspiel, based on the comments
about it in other posts...
Greg Smith
grega...@worldnet.att.net
"Eddy Bee" <edd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a52daba1.02030...@posting.google.com...
Richard Bell
Eddy Bee <edd...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>A popular board game genre is the auto racing game/simulation. Over
>the years many games have brought Formula 1, NASCAR, and even the Indy
>500 to our table tops.
>
>Some of these games try to stay true to their theme and attempt to
>implement a reasonable abstraction of reality in their design. Others
>simply use the theme as window dressing for an underlying game
>mechanic that is suited to racing.
>
> - Speed Circuit
>For me, "Speed Circuit" is by far and away the best of the bunch,
>because of its tension-filled gameplay and how well it implements many
>of the key decisions and dynamics of an actual race. But it doesn't
>always appeal to the casual gamer. For that, I feel "Daytona 500"
>delivers the goods.
>
aspect (bad for serious, good for casual) that you must be luckier than
anyone else to win. No amount of sound decision making will protect from
someone else getting three perfect rolls in a row. Speed Circuit has almost
the opposite problem, in that a poor choice of car will force you to push your
luck, hoping to end the race before it runs out.
Speed Circuit does a very good job of rewarding sound judgement; although,
Formula De is fun to play.
The Maverick
originally know as the Grand Prix Racing Game (Wright-Mudge
Enterprises.) Anyone know how the two games compare (was the AH version
merely a reprint or were there additions or changes?)
Le Mans looks like it has some interesting aspects which might bump it
above Speed Circuit and Formula 1 (two of my favorites as well),
although I'm not sure about the "wet corner" rule. Unfortunately, Le
Mans has two things weighing heavily against it: (1) tough to find, (2)
often very expensive when you do find it.
Any experienced Le Mans aficionados have comments about the game?
the Mav
--
"Never give up -- never surrender!" Commander Peter Quincy Taggart
Dan Blum
> I haven't seen Le Mans (Avalon Hill 1961) mentioned yet... The game was
> originally know as the Grand Prix Racing Game (Wright-Mudge
> Enterprises.) Anyone know how the two games compare (was the AH version
> merely a reprint or were there additions or changes?)
> Le Mans looks like it has some interesting aspects which might bump it
> above Speed Circuit and Formula 1 (two of my favorites as well),
> although I'm not sure about the "wet corner" rule. Unfortunately, Le
> Mans has two things weighing heavily against it: (1) tough to find, (2)
> often very expensive when you do find it.
> Any experienced Le Mans aficionados have comments about the game?
I can't directly compare it to Speed Circuit or Formula 1 (I haven't
played them), but when I tried Le Mans no one cared for it much. As I
recall, the track clogged up very easily, leaving most players no
choice about what to do, and in any case the decisions on shifting gears
seemed pretty obvious. However, we only tried it the once.
Le Mans doesn't seem to go for as much on eBay as it used to - I wouldn't
be surprised to see a copy go for $30 or so.
--
_______________________________________________________________________
Dan Blum to...@panix.com
"I wouldn't have believed it myself if I hadn't just made it up."
Henry Vogel
posted a very long overview of the various auto racing games I own and have
played. Should anyone want see a copy, contact me directly and I'll be
happy to forward it to you. Meanwhile, I'll include some brief thoughts on
the games I have below.
"Eddy Bee" <edd...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a52daba1.02030...@posting.google.com...
> A popular board game genre is the auto racing game/simulation. Over
> the years many games have brought Formula 1, NASCAR, and even the Indy
> 500 to our table tops.
>
> Some of these games try to stay true to their theme and attempt to
> implement a reasonable abstraction of reality in their design. Others
> simply use the theme as window dressing for an underlying game
> mechanic that is suited to racing.
>
> Many games have been produced in both categories:
> - Formula De
Certainly the most popular of the games and pretty fun, too. I don't care
for it nearly as much as many others seem to, but I'm willing to play it
from time to time. For me, it seems that all of the decisions to be made
are pretty obvious. Every game I've ever played in had people counting the
number of spaces left to go to the next turn then selecting dice
appropriately. I also find the game greatly rewards the players who start
in the front of the grid. Depending on my mood, I score it a 6 or a 7.
> - Ausgebremst
Fun, but not a game I was ever able to convince people to play for more than
one race (and they were short races at that). I also didn't care for the
cartoon like artwork. Its predecessor, Ave Caesar, looks much better. I'd
rate it a 7 because it's an easy game for young players to understand.
> - Top Race
One of the many variations of the Niki Lauda's (spelling?) Formula One. I
have it and have played it once or twice. The betting aspect is
interesting, but once you see how that works you can easily adapt it to
other, better variations of the same mechanics. Overall, a 7.
> - Pitstop
High on my list of games I want to learn more about. Probably the next game
I'll order from Funagain. Thanks to the person who posted some of the
details here!
> - Daytona 500
Like many, I find this to be the best variation of the Niki Lauda mechanic.
Using the turns to your best advantage is a large part of the game and
certainly takes more thought and planning than blocking the single lane
sections of track found in Top Race. I picked up some 1/144 scale NASCAR
diecast cars to use in place of the box like cars that come with the game,
giving it a bit more stock car flavor. For those who have the game, you can
regularly find the old 1/144 scale cars on eBay (Toys - Diecast - Diecast
cars and trucks - NASCAR then search on 144). One of my favorite racing
games. A good solid 8.
> - Grand Prix
Never played.
> - Carabande
As stated earlier, not really a car racing game but don't let that stop you.
This is a truly wonderful game that can be played by almost any age (my son
was flicking disks around the track at age 3). I rate this one a 10.
> - Motor Champ
Easily the best looking racing game available, even beating out the very
attractive Formula De. There has been mention of the cost of the game, and
it IS expensive, but you also get enough boards to create 12 tracks.
Admittedly, the tracks aren't "real" tracks, but they are different and
interesting. The mechanics are very straight forward but the flavor of the
game comes out best if you play the way the designer intended -- quickly.
There has also been mention of the high number of cars knocked out of races,
but each player runs two or more cars so it's rare that a player is
completely knocked out of the race. I'll also make a brief note that season
opening Grand Prix race last weekend had 22 cars start but only 8 finish. A
solid 8, though it creeps up to a 9 if played properly.
> - Detroit-Cleveland Grand Prix
Never played, can't imagine it would be better than Daytona 500, though.
> - Speed Circuit
This was my first "gamer's" game, gotten for Christmas when I was 11. I
played it a lot, but eventually the races became pretty predicable. The
game would benefit from some kind of random element, in my opinion, to
inject a little unplanned chaos into the race. I rate this one a 6.5.
> - Das Motorspiel
Great at providing the "feel" of racing as you must think and act quickly.
The dice mechanism provides a fair amount of control over your car's
movement, too. However, if you don't play this with a timer then you might
as well not play at all. The timer really makes the game, providing the
tense atmosphere that one would hope to find in a racing game. Formula De
and Motorchamp could probably both benefit from something similar (if not a
timer, then at least a "fast move" rule). This one rates a solid 8.
> - Formel Fun
Don't look for this if you're looking for a serious racing game. It's a fun
little game, but it's NOT really an auto racing game. For those who are
familiar with Devil Take the Hindmost, it's that game (which featured
bicycles) done with an auto racing theme. This one rates about a 6.
> - Stock Car Championship Racing
McGartlin's game is, to my mind, the best auto racing game I've ever played.
I'd like to say the "best auto racing game available" but anyone who's read
this newsgroup for a while knows the game is virtually impossible to get.
The game concentrates on what should be the most important aspect of a
racing game -- passing -- and makes the rest of the race an abstraction.
Most other games do things exactly the opposite, concentrating on the easy
to simulate running of laps around a track while ignoring the difficult to
simulate passing aspect of the game. I've played this game more than any
racing game except for Speed Circuit and still find it fresh and enjoyable
every time it comes out. I also generally find that players get into this
game more than the others, as taunts and cries of anguish arise as cars pass
or fail to pass. Really a great hootin' and hollerin' game, which is a good
thing for a racing game. I rate this one a 10.
> and many others...
>
> For me, "Speed Circuit" is by far and away the best of the bunch,
> because of its tension-filled gameplay and how well it implements many
> of the key decisions and dynamics of an actual race. But it doesn't
> always appeal to the casual gamer. For that, I feel "Daytona 500"
> delivers the goods.
>
> That said, I've only had an opportunity to try a handful of the games
> listed above, so perhaps you'd like to contribute your thoughts and
> opinions about these and other auto racing games...
>
> Keep well,
> -Eddy Bee
Of the games mentioned above, it's interesting to note that most of the
games are Formula One style racing games. The only stock car racing games
that attract much attention are Daytona 500 and McGartlin's card game. As a
stock car racing fan, I have checked out many of the other stock car games
on the market. Some of them truly suck while some are fairly good. Here's
a brief run down of those ones I've tried:
Real Action Stockcar Championship (RASC) is the only other racing game I
know that acknowledges that there is more to passing than simply having a
faster car. The game also has a rather unique movement mechanism that does
a good job of simulating the close racing found in NASCAR. Movement, which
is controlled by dice, covers a fairly small range of possible movement
amounts. For example, one of the tracks in the game (it comes with two), is
the super speedway. It has a low end movement of 15 and a high end of 18.
On every turn, each car will move at least 15 spaces (barring trouble) but
no more than 18 spaces. This keeps the racing close and fairly realistic.
The passing though, isn't nearly as interesting as one could have hoped for.
Essentially, when one car attempts to pass another, both players roll a 10
sided die, high number wins. Much too luck based in my opinion. The
publisher has been working on a "realism package" of rules for quite a while
but they have never seen the light of day. As the publisher is essentially
one guy doing this on the side, I can understand that. At least he does
maintain his web site (www.realaction.com), will respond to e-mail and still
sells his game (unlike the guys at McGartlin). I give this one a 6 but it
could go higher with some added options.
Bumper-2-Bumper used to have it's own web site. That's gone and, as best I
can tell, the only place to buy this now is the through the RASC's
publisher. This is another dice based game, though it provides for some
interesting decisions. Essentially, a player has three options for
movement -- roll two six sided dice and move that far, "draft" the car in
front of you which allows you to move the same distance the car in front of
you moves (must announce drafting BEFORE the player in front of you declares
his movement and rolls the dice) or simply select to move 6 spaces. Passing
is simply a matter of moving farther than the car ahead of you. Still, a
solid 6 or 7 depending on my mood. Doesn't seem to have the potential of
RASC for added options, though.
Daytona Challenge is now out of print and, to be frank, it's not much of a
loss to the race gaming community. One die is rolled, yielding either a 7,
an 8, a 9 or a C. If it's a number, you move that far. If it's a C you
draw a card and do what the card says. As a game, it's slightly more
strategic than Candyland. Too bad, since it's such an attractive game. If
you can get it cheaply and already have RASC or Bumper-2-Bumper, pick it up
and use it as an extra track for those games. A rating of 2 entirely
because the components are so nice.
Dicecar is pretty much exactly what it sounds like. Roll dice, move the
car. No strategy, no tactics, no fun. Rating of 3 simply because it's not
as bad as Daytona Challenge. I gave the track to my son to use as a race
track when he races his toy cars.
Anyway, great topic and I'm hoping to see some more opinions posted soon!
Henry
Lars Wagner Hansen
news:a52daba1.02030...@posting.google.com...
<Snip>
> That said, I've only had an opportunity to try a handful of the games
> listed above, so perhaps you'd like to contribute your thoughts and
> opinions about these and other auto racing games...
> - Top Race
An OK game, but it just dosn't deliver the goods. If you don't have at least
20 point's on your own car, then you usually don't have any chance. Playing
with the advanced rules, usually just means that everybody bets on the first
car to reach check point one, which seems to be a self-fullfilling goal. The
more I play this game, the more it dissapoints me.
> - Carabande
Great toy, but not realy a game. On the other hand it's easy, fun, and goes
well with a couple of beers.
> - Das Motorspiel
Das Motorsportspiel is one of the greatest games ever made IMO. Das
Motorsportspiel has a kind of action that I haven't found in any other game.
Some players claim that Das Motorsportspiel doesn't have any tactics or
strategy, and that it's all based on luck. For a definition of strategy and
tactics, I have taken the following quote from Encyclopædia Britannica:
"In the theory of warfare, strategy and tactics have generally been put into
separate categories. The two fields have traditionally been defined in terms
of different dimensions: strategy dealing with wide spaces, long periods of
time, and large movements of forces, tactics dealing with the opposite.
Strategy is usually understood to be the prelude to the battlefield, and
tactics the action on the battlefield itself. As a result, much of the
literature and theory of strategy has in the past been preoccupied with the
proper approach to the battlefield, the leading of troops up to the time of
contact with the enemy."
While I admit that Das Motorsportspiel doesn't have much strategy (if any at
all), it has a lot of tactics. You have to follow you opponents moves, and
within half a minute or less (we usually play with 20 seconds), you have to
decide how many dice to use, roll the dice, decide which face to use,
arrange the dice, and move your car. Now if that doesn't call for tactics,
then I don't know what tactics is.
If you play with no time limit the Das Motorsportspiel is proberly one of
the worst games ever, keep that in mind.
> and many others...
Lego Racers?
http://shop.lego.com/product.asp?id=%7BCFE524C7%2D4530%2D4200%2D8E00%2D4C79D
8C34898%7D
Anybody tried this, is it a game, or is it just toys?
Lars
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Motorsportspiel
David Bieksza
<thema...@volcano.net> wrote:
>Le Mans looks like it has some interesting aspects which might bump it
>above Speed Circuit and Formula 1 (two of my favorites as well),
>although I'm not sure about the "wet corner" rule. Unfortunately, Le
>Mans has two things weighing heavily against it: (1) tough to find, (2)
>often very expensive when you do find it.
>
>Any experienced Le Mans aficionados have comments about the game?
It was my no. 1 favorite game when I was a kid, but I'm not sure that
it has aged well. Judging from the discussion in this thread (I
haven't actually played any of the titles mentioned) the mechanics
might be perceived as bland or dated.
Looking back, the first strike against it is that two tracks were
provided, Le Mans (sports cars) and Monte Carlo (grand prix), yet the
same set of cars raced on both. Another problem is that the cars had
fixed mechanical characteristics that divided them into classes, but
it was only worthwhile to choose a car from the top class (speed) or
the bottom class (cornerning) -- the two classes in between were for
masochists only.
I still have the game, so if anybody is interested I can post a
description of the rules and components.
=======
"Do they still sing songs of the
Great Tribble Hunt?" Odo to Worf
=======
David S. Bieksza
bie...@noUCEerols.com
=======
('noUCE' is intended to foil spammer 'bots;
remove to email me -- do not just hit Reply)
Frank Branham
> Auto racing games -- a topic near and dear to my heart! Last summer I
> posted a very long overview of the various auto racing games I own and have
> > - Pitstop
>
> High on my list of games I want to learn more about. Probably the next game
> I'll order from Funagain. Thanks to the person who posted some of the
> details here!
>
You want one. Best of all, the track sections are modular (a la
Carabande) and the game includes a nice selection of track plans.
You should also try the old Parker/Waddington's Formula One. It adds
the chaos that you want in Speed Circuit.
There are a couple other of interest:
Lunatix Loop: I'm not real happy with the games' balance. The core is
a Speed Circuit-like race. The big difference is that you choose an
"intent" card that indicates whether you are speeding up/slowing
down/ramming. then players move from front to back choosing their
exact speed. Which is a pretty unique mechanic for racing games.
Cornering damage is handled similar to FASA's Circus Imperium (draw
from a card deck for each increment over speed.)
Spiritfresser: A game by the owner of Adam Spielt. Kind of a Speed
Circuit/Formula De hybrid. I've yet to try it, but have one chap who
gives it a very high rating.
Tacara: Pretty ugly production. And it...has...cars in it. The game
itself uses a strange 2d vectorish movement system that feel more like
you are driving space ships than cars. Fairly fun, though.
DTM vs Motorchamp: Motorchamp strikes me as a simplified DTM. It takes
away the lane change restrictions (of a diagonal die pattern) for a
nice limit to the number of dice you can roll, and adds a drafting
rule. Motorchamp feels far less tedious, and tends to produce more
lead changes as a result.
Moo
Frank
Randy Cox
It's fun and doesn't drag on *forever*, though it comes close. I like
it OK, but wouldn't go out of my way to play it.
> - Ausgebremst
Possibly my favorite. It does an OK job of simulating racing for me.
I mean, if a game really simulated F-1 racing, it would be painfully
boring. Whoever starts in the lead might as well be named the winner
:). But there's a great deal of strategy, and I love the fact that
you're so likely to run out of gas.
> - Top Race
Of the non-Daytona Formel 1 clones, this one's the best. I hate the
narrows and truly despise the car-swap cards, but the betting almost
makes it worthwhile.
> - Pitstop
Read the rules and wasn't all that impressed. Maybe I'll play my copy
some day.
> - Daytona 500
The granddaddy. I really like this game. Betting would make it even
better, but it's damn good anyway.
> - Carabande
Silly fun, but too much effort to set up and play.
> - Detroit-Cleveland Grand Prix
Horrendous. All the problems of Top Race, without the fun of betting.
> - Speed Circuit
OK, but dated. At WBC, I think they play a hybrid version with much
more random elements. That'd probably be fun, but I don't want to
spend the time to learn a racing new game.
> - Das Motorspiel
Loads of fun with a 15-second timer (begins immediately when the
previous player finishes, before the dice roll). Needs a house rule
to give more flags for time spent after running out of the original 15
seconds, otherwise, ponder-paralysis sets in.
> - Stock Car Championship Racing
Loved it the first time I played, but games take waaaaay too long and
are to meticulous (check thousands of seconds, sequence changes,
action points, extra help in passing, etc, etc). It just seems to
take far too long for a card game.
> and many others...
> There was a Nascar Champions or something like that which was essentially Daytona 500 with five dice rather than cards. The dice were rolled and all indicated cars had to move (much like the cards in Daytona). There were some random-element cards, too, as I recall. It was fun, but nothing spectacular.
Lars Wagner Hansen
news:d457815c.02030...@posting.google.com...<Snip>
> > - Das Motorspiel
Das Motorsportspiel!
> Loads of fun with a 15-second timer (begins immediately when the
> previous player finishes, before the dice roll). Needs a house rule
> to give more flags for time spent after running out of the original 15
> seconds, otherwise, ponder-paralysis sets in.
We've had problems with this aswell, but have solved it this way:
When the time is up, you still have to finish your move, and you can use all
the time you need but you loose your next move. So you end up using two
moves to complete one move, and you still receive unavoidable driving
penalties. When using this rule you only use the white flags to indicate
that the player should not move in the following round, white flags never
accumulate.
This and many other alternative rules can be found at the yahoogroups
mentioned below, including a new track (Sepang)
Henry Vogel
"Frank Branham" <m...@sacredchao.cc> wrote in message
news:3f799ccc.02030...@posting.google.com...
> "Henry Vogel" <hvo...@nc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<3aVg8.23483$3O2.8...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com>...
> > Auto racing games -- a topic near and dear to my heart! Last summer I
> > posted a very long overview of the various auto racing games I own and
have
>
> > > - Pitstop
> >
> > High on my list of games I want to learn more about. Probably the next
game
> > I'll order from Funagain. Thanks to the person who posted some of the
> > details here!
> >
>
> You want one. Best of all, the track sections are modular (a la
> Carabande) and the game includes a nice selection of track plans.
>
> You should also try the old Parker/Waddington's Formula One. It adds
> the chaos that you want in Speed Circuit.
Thanks for both recommendations. I've been considering picking up both
games for a while and it looks like I'll actually have to stop considering
and start buying!
> There are a couple other of interest:
>
> Lunatix Loop: I'm not real happy with the games' balance. The core is
> a Speed Circuit-like race. The big difference is that you choose an
> "intent" card that indicates whether you are speeding up/slowing
> down/ramming. then players move from front to back choosing their
> exact speed. Which is a pretty unique mechanic for racing games.
> Cornering damage is handled similar to FASA's Circus Imperium (draw
> from a card deck for each increment over speed.)
I had one of the few copies of the game and agree with your assessment. The
game was great the first time, less great the second time and merely okay
the third time. I still like the ideas presented in the game and the cards
for turn selection were interesting. The game ended up lacking actual
tension as the race neared the end. In each game I played, all but one or
two players were completely out of the running by the time the third (and
final) lap began. Usually, one of the two players left in contention was
knocked down and out by the time the third lap was halfway over. I do like
the card mechanism, though, and will have to think about ways to modify it
for other racing games...
> Spiritfresser: A game by the owner of Adam Spielt. Kind of a Speed
> Circuit/Formula De hybrid. I've yet to try it, but have one chap who
> gives it a very high rating.
>
> Tacara: Pretty ugly production. And it...has...cars in it. The game
> itself uses a strange 2d vectorish movement system that feel more like
> you are driving space ships than cars. Fairly fun, though.
From the description I've read of this, it's nothing more than a board game
version of an old pencil and graph paper game I saw written up in an old
Scientific American magazine. I recall playing back in high school about 28
years ago. (Ouch! That number makes me feel old!
> DTM vs Motorchamp: Motorchamp strikes me as a simplified DTM. It takes
> away the lane change restrictions (of a diagonal die pattern) for a
> nice limit to the number of dice you can roll, and adds a drafting
> rule. Motorchamp feels far less tedious, and tends to produce more
> lead changes as a result.
I'd agree with that. I do find Motorchamp to be less likely to drag than
DTM. I still like the "feel" of time pressure in DTM. Because of that, I
always encourage players to play quickly in Motorchamp. It doesn't always
work, unfortunately, but playing quickly really does improve the game quite
a bit.
Henry