AH Gunslinger game?
Will Beckley
and shootouts. I think it was called "Gunslinger." At any rate, what can be
said about it? Is it good? Anyone have the rules in a sendable format? I
just don't want to go through the rigors of finding OOP games for a game
thats not too good.
Will Beckley
Greg J. Schloesser
Gunslinger is the correct name, Will. This was an older Avalon Hill
title which used written orders for movement and actions. I loved the
theme, but the game was overly complex and clunky. I sold my copy
several years ago and have never looked back.
--
Greg J. Schloesser
The Westbank Gamers: http://home.earthlink.net/~gschloesser/
Strategy Gaming Society: http://pages.about.com/strategygames
Mark J. Edwards
"Greg J. Schloesser" <gschl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Will Beckley wrote:
> >
> > I'm looking for an older AH game in which players play cowboys in
barfights
> > and shootouts. I think it was called "Gunslinger." At any rate, what
can be
> > said about it? Is it good? Anyone have the rules in a sendable
format? I
> > just don't want to go through the rigors of finding OOP games for a
game
> > thats not too good.
>
> Gunslinger is the correct name, Will. This was an older Avalon Hill
> title which used written orders for movement and actions. I loved the
> theme, but the game was overly complex and clunky. I sold my copy
> several years ago and have never looked back.
>
gunmen's action, not written orders. A bit like Robo Rally in the sense
that you used cards to give orders to your man, and there were 5
"segments" in each turn for them to do something. Unlike Robo Rally
each card action did not take up a fixed amount of 1 segment, rather
they were variable depending on the action.
Each gunfighter had the same base set of cards (like move forward,
turn, aim, shoot) and then perhaps a special card or two (quick draw,
etc.) that pertained to that character only.
There is some pad and pencil bookkeeping, but it's pretty minor (ammo
usage, wounds?)
I've only played it a few times but I had fun each time. One of
those playings still gets retold among my old high school gaming
buddies.
I didn't find the system overly clunky, it was easier to play than
the rules read. On the minus side, the rules for cover seemed a bit
askew and the scenarios I played seemed to degenerate in to blasting
away at each other with minimal maneuver.
IIRC there were also rules for some limited role playing with the
characters.
Check out some reviews of it at grognards.com ...
http://www.grognard.com/reviews/gun.txt
and
http://www.grognard.com/reviews/gunslin1.txt
and a pbem replay here
http://www.grognard.com/reviews/gunsling.txt
and a website here
http://www.faergemann.dk/gunslinger
Or just go to www.grognard.com and check under the Gunslinger heading.
Mark
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Patrick Carroll
>>
>> I'm looking for an older AH game in which players play cowboys in barfights
>> and shootouts. I think it was called "Gunslinger." At any rate, what can be
>> said about it? Is it good? Anyone have the rules in a sendable format? I
>> just don't want to go through the rigors of finding OOP games for a game
>> thats not too good.
>
>Gunslinger is the correct name, Will. This was an older Avalon Hill
>title which used written orders for movement and actions. I loved the
>theme, but the game was overly complex and clunky. I sold my copy
>several years ago and have never looked back.
>
>Greg J. Schloesser
I looked back. In fact, I regretted selling my original copy, and bought a new
copy after a couple years. Still have it.
It was a terrific, groundbreaking game for its day. Downside was mainly having
to keep some written records--and the fact that all the action was broken down
into fractions of a second, so that the game had the feel of slow-motion video.
By today's standards, I guess "overly complex and clunky" is a fair assessment.
But Gunslinger still has a place in my heart--and in my closet.
--P. C.,
Minnesota
Christian Killoran
Will Beckley <WBec...@Mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8bohh0$743$1...@slb1.atl.mindspring.net...
> I'm looking for an older AH game in which players play cowboys in
barfights
> and shootouts. I think it was called "Gunslinger." At any rate, what can
be
> said about it? Is it good? Anyone have the rules in a sendable format? I
> just don't want to go through the rigors of finding OOP games for a game
> thats not too good.
Obviously opinions vary, but for my money Gunslinger is one of the best
boardgames of all time. I can honestly say it's the only game I've had to
re-buy because I literally wore my first copy out. Since its publication in
the early 80's I have played hundreds (possibly thousands) of scenarios.
Since others have pointed you to reviews, I'll limit my comments to why
Gunslinger makes my all time greatest list:
Flexibility - This game really works with any number of players from 2-7
(and more if you've got another game.) Some scenarios are team affairs,
others allow for every man fer himself options. Time can range from 10
minutes (high stakes poker game) to several hours (wide open town.) Board
sizes range from tiny enough to play on an airplane seat-back tray to very
large. You have more gaming options with this one box than any other game I
can think of offhand.
Learning Curve - I have taught this game to many non-gamers, including
children. Universal hit. Before the German games came along this game was
the unquestioned choice for introducing new victims to the hobby. Be
warned, however, that the rules resemble Up Front in that while the game is
simple to learn from an experienced player, learning from scratch might be
tough unless you come from a wargaming background.
Simulation/Playability balance - I know that some folks on this group
poo-poo the simulation ability of any game and I don't want to re-open that
debate here. This is a gunfighting game, pure and simple, broken down to
the essential question any gunslinger faced-just when do you pull the
trigger? Shoot too quickly and you'll probably miss. Wait too long aiming
and you probably eat dust. This is exactly the same knuckle-biting decision
making that makes the German games so popular, I think. As far as
playability goes, I'm very surprised Greg thought the game clunky. The use
of action cards to replace the written orders of other is-move games is
elegant and effective. Combat resolution is a simple card draw. Movement
is time based, rather than distance based but any gamer gets used to this
very quickly. Many optional rules are presented but are not needed to enjoy
the game.
Anyway, it's pretty obvious by now that I'm a true believer. To be fair,
I'm also a western historian, love western movies, live in Colorado and pay
my respects annually to Doc Holliday at his grave in Glenwood. But I own
and play several more western games and Gunslinger beats 'em all hands down.
So to sum up, if yer a necktie wearin' poodle lovin' eastern dude this might
not be the game for you - but if yer buddies like to line up some shots of
trade whisky during your gaming nights, put on a video of Hombre while you
wait out the shipping and get that copy of Gunslinger!
Michael Oberly
<snip>
>Learning Curve - I have taught this game to many non-gamers, including
>children. Universal hit. Before the German games came along this game was
>the unquestioned choice for introducing new victims to the hobby. Be
>warned, however, that the rules resemble Up Front in that while the game is
>simple to learn from an experienced player, learning from scratch might be
>tough unless you come from a wargaming background.
You can say that again-Richard Hamblen games seem to have this
problem.From what I heard,he liked to explain the rules to the
testers,but the rulebooks themselves don't pass the mustard.Magic
Realm is another very fine game that was killed by a horribly
explained set of rules.
--
Mike Oberly * Rain can't wet me,
when I have my poui in my hand. *
* Rain can't wet me,
I advancing on the foe like a roaring lion!*
Soca/Calypso fan?Check out http://www.iere.com/thebarn
The Maverick
>
> I'm looking for an older AH game in which players play cowboys in barfights
> and shootouts. I think it was called "Gunslinger." At any rate, what can be
> said about it? Is it good?
Bottom line: Gunslinger is the best board wargame available for
recreating Western gunfights.
the Mav
--
Cliffhanger Serials, Boardgames, Videogames, and Red Baron I
http://www.volcano.net/~themaverick/index.html
The Classic Microgames Museum
http://maverick.brainiac.com/cmm/index.html
The Space and Fantasy Gamer's Guide
http://www.brainiac.com/micro/sfgg/index.html
Larry Welborn
>
> Will Beckley wrote:
> >
> > I'm looking for an older AH game in which players play cowboys in barfights
> > and shootouts. I think it was called "Gunslinger." At any rate, what can be
> > said about it? Is it good?
>
> Bottom line: Gunslinger is the best board wargame available for
> recreating Western gunfights.
>
> the Mav
>
Agreed. This is a great game. A game that plays well with any number
from 2 to 7.
Larry
--
Note: To Reply remove "Not" from the e-mail address
John Beaderstadt
> Many optional rules are presented but are not needed to enjoy
> the game.
I would disagree with this. I've always thought this to be one of those games
that improves with each optional or advanced rule you add. For this reason, it
would make an ideal computer adaptation, especially with something like the
original X-Com engine.
--
"I tried to imagine the easiest way God could have done it."
--Albert Einstein
John Beaderstadt
> Richard Hamblen games seem to have this
> problem.From what I heard,he liked to explain the rules to the
> testers,but the rulebooks themselves don't pass the mustard.
Not surprising, really. You should never let an engineer write an instruction
manual.
Peter Clinch
> Gunslinger is the correct name, Will. This was an older Avalon Hill
> title which used written orders for movement and actions. I loved the
> theme, but the game was overly complex and clunky. I sold my copy
> several years ago and have never looked back.
If you don't like fairly heavy rulesets I can see why this wouldn't work
for someone. However, if you like westerns, and don't object to a
fairly complex game on principal, I think it's superb.
Mav noted it's great for gunfights, and I'd agree. Where I think it
*is* clunky and pretty disasterous is hand to hand fighting, but then
that's true of just about hand to hand rules I've ever seen in any
game. But you can get around that by just sticking to the gunfights,
and there are plenty included in the scenarios that come in the box.
Shouldn't be difficult to make up your own, either, especially as the
mapboard is 8 double sided geomorphic sections.
Don't mess with the Quiet Man though... ;-)
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
user
<WBec...@Mindspring.com> wrote:
> I'm looking for an older AH game in which players play cowboys in barfights
> and shootouts. I think it was called "Gunslinger." At any rate, what can be
> said about it? Is it good? Anyone have the rules in a sendable format? I
> just don't want to go through the rigors of finding OOP games for a game
> thats not too good.
>
> Will Beckley
Hail Citizen Will!
Gunslinger gets its sometimes clunky reputation from how the rules read (a
common AH problem) and the fact that it recreates a 30 second gunbattle in
2+ hours. That being said it still is an excellent game which acurately
recreates the tension and inate deadly quality of Western gunfights.
Basically, if you get shot you probably done for. If you like the theme
then it is worth your effort to pick it up. I recommend Italian Western
soundtrack music in the background.
-N
bpangtay
Thanks in advanced, Brian
PS. If looking for a PC game equivalent, you can't beat Outlaws by
Lucasarts. (Spaghetti western theme, music, etc.)
DaveShayne
bpangtay wrote in message <8br0qm$jgs$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>So is Gunslinger the only Wild West gunfight game worth looking at?
Try TSR's Boot Hill although it's supposed to be role playing
it plays much more like a boardgame. (At least in the second edition
which I have.) Because it was designed as a role playing game you
have charecter creation overhead but it's much less than most
RPG's You should be slinging lead within a half hour from starting cold
And the gunfights are usually short and sweet.
Dave Shayne
Mark Johnson
<20000327171632...@ng-fa1.aol.com>:
>By today's standards, I guess "overly complex and clunky" is a fair
>assessment. But Gunslinger still has a place in my heart--and in my
>closet.
Right. And until someone designs something better (or merely simplifies
the existing rules), it is THE gunfighting board game. I'm not giving
mine up anytime soon... In fact, maybe it's time to bone up on the
rules and try it with a select few of my German-style boardgame group.
-MJ
Christian Killoran
John Beaderstadt <be...@together.net> wrote in message
news:38E053BB...@together.net...
> Christian Killoran wrote:
>
> > Many optional rules are presented but are not needed to enjoy
> > the game.
>
> I would disagree with this. I've always thought this to be one of those
games
> that improves with each optional or advanced rule you add. For this
reason, it
> would make an ideal computer adaptation, especially with something like
the
> original X-Com engine.
I agree that the "chrome" rules added after the basic programmed
instructions improve the game - I've used them all. But there's no NEED for
them as even the basic game is excellent. It's nice to have a game that you
can fine tune to meet your situation.
Christian Killoran
bpangtay <bpan...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8br0qm$jgs$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> So is Gunslinger the only Wild West gunfight game worth looking at?
I don't know if I've played every gunfight boardgame, but it is FAR better
than these (not that these are all bad games.)
Boot Hill
Thunde-rin' Guns
Shootout
Shootout at the Saloon
Old West (skirmish rules)
Frontier 6
Ken McElhaney
> I'm looking for an older AH game in which players play cowboys in barfights
> and shootouts. I think it was called "Gunslinger." At any rate, what can be
> said about it? Is it good? Anyone have the rules in a sendable format? I
> just don't want to go through the rigors of finding OOP games for a game
> thats not too good.
>
> Will Beckley
Ahh...memories. I bought AH's Gunslinger when it first came out (early
80's). For $20, it had more "production value" than any other game I bought at
the time. Others who have chimed in have explained the basics better than I
could. Actually, the system itself is fairly straightforward and can be taught
easily. I think the "clunky" factor comes from trying to learn the game by
yourself. Plus the amount of extra details (all optional) that lend a
"heavyness" to a game that is really not needed (unless you really like that
stuff).
If you like the subject and have a little patience, this game is for you and
is well worth purchasing. I am fortunate enough to still own this game and the
other "notable" man to man game of that gaming era, Yaquinto's Swashbuckler.
Now, if someone could combine the best of both systems....
Ken
joe marshall
"Peter Clinch" <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote
> Don't mess with the Quiet Man though... ;-)
Another character not to be underestimated is the Old Man...a mean scrapper
who just won't die it seems. When we play the "poker game" scenerio,
everyone wants to play the Old Man. It also gives you the opportunity to
use your best Walter Brennan voice: "By gobs, mister, I think you're a
cheat!" Joe Marshall
Michael Oberly
'Mountain Man'(is that his name?) is death from any kind of range with
a rifle in his hands.For some reason that character always appealed to
me.:)
Derek Zona
scrapper
>>who just won't die it seems. When we play the "poker game" scenerio,
>>everyone wants to play the Old Man. It also gives you the opportunity to
>>use your best Walter Brennan voice: "By gobs, mister, I think you're a
>>cheat!" Joe Marshall
>
>'Mountain Man'(is that his name?) is death from any kind of range with
>a rifle in his hands.For some reason that character always appealed to
>me.:)
Much like the kid in Saving Private Ryan, loved that character.
srsch...@my-deja.com
TAC track (A, B, C, D) to move NPC's?
I've tried it a couple of times, but I can't remember if I liked it or
not. If I remember, I had to make up some guidelines on what the NPC's
would logically do within the constraints of the intent of the TAC. For
example, one TAC was move close and cover, another was aim and fire,
one was back away. I don't remember the exact rules.
So, anybody try the solitaire rules?
Steve
Christian Killoran
Michael Oberly <ki...@SPAMOFFcolumbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:38e25273...@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> 'Mountain Man'(is that his name?) is death from any kind of range with
> a rifle in his hands.For some reason that character always appealed to
> me.:)
Mountain Man appeals to a lot of folks. Try choosing him in a role-playing
campaign and see how long he lasts before he finds himself in the Regulators
scenario!: )
BTW, has anybody on the planet EVER won The Regulators with the Mountain
Man? If so, will you tell me how you did it?
Allan Goodall
>So is Gunslinger the only Wild West gunfight game worth looking at?
If you are into miniatures, there are a couple of games. There's a really
cheaply made game called "Desperado" that's fun to play. The "Great Rail War"
isn't realistic (sci-fi based, and gangs of fighters instead of individuals)
but it has its followers. I've seen other rule sets, too.
Allan Goodall agoo...@interlog.com
Goodall's Grotto: http://www.interlog.com/~agoodall/
"Surprisingly, when you throw two naked women with sex
toys into a living room full of drunken men, things
always go bad." - Kyle Baker, "You Are Here"
joe marshall
"Michael Oberly" <ki...@SPAMOFFcolumbus.rr.com> wrote > 'Mountain Man'(is
that his name?) is death from any kind of range with
> a rifle in his hands.For some reason that character always appealed to
> me.:)
"Mountain Man" is awesome at long range with that SH50 (I think it is) at
long range which will f*** you up if it hits you...and is the best brawler
in the game if he can get his hands on you. He's at a disadvantage in
medium range as his pistol sucks and he's no good with it but with 40
endurance points might just walk up to you with a couple of bullet wounds in
him and pound you good.
The more interesting characters in the game are the ones who are good in
limited ways: "Fast Eddie" is fast...sort of....and shoots straight...sort
of. "Gambler" carries that sawed off and a couple of knives and knows how
to use 'em, but has only 10 endurance boxes. "Axe" is armed to the teeth
with lethal brawling weapons but carries only an antiquated colt for a
shootin' fight...etc.
Ross W. Maker
>
> On Tue, 28 Mar 2000 19:23:22 GMT, bpangtay <bpan...@my-deja.com>
> wrote:
>
> >So is Gunslinger the only Wild West gunfight game worth looking at?
>
> If you are into miniatures, there are a couple of games. There's a
> really cheaply made game called "Desperado" that's fun to play. The
> "Great Rail War" isn't realistic (sci-fi based, and gangs of fighters
> instead of individuals) but it has its followers. I've seen other rule
> sets, too.
Foundry's "The Rules With No Name" are good. And you can download them
for free at:
http://www.icenter.net/~gisby/RWNN.htm
RWM
Christian Killoran
joe marshall <ph...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:dNBE4.839$pK3....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> The more interesting characters in the game are the ones who are good in
> limited ways: "Fast Eddie" is fast...sort of....and shoots
straight...sort
> of. "Gambler" carries that sawed off and a couple of knives and knows how
> to use 'em, but has only 10 endurance boxes. "Axe" is armed to the teeth
> with lethal brawling weapons but carries only an antiquated colt for a
> shootin' fight...etc.
Personally, I find no character more fun to play than Ling Ho. I love
seeing the smirks of the other players at the beginning of the game, and
then wiping the smiles off their faces! : )
Brian Sommers
anyone want to sell there copy? just as long as its complete, i don't care
what condition its in.
thanks
BrianS
joe marshall
"Christian Killoran" wrote in message
>
> Personally, I find no character more fun to play than Ling Ho. I love
> seeing the smirks of the other players at the beginning of the game, and
> then wiping the smiles off their faces! : )
That little guy will make you see double with all those chops, kicks, etc.
Doesn't he have the extra foot speed card, too? Last I checked, though, he
can't outrun a bullet.
Another guy who's a hoot is the NCO with that sabre. If he connects on you
with that thing, you're gonna be hurtin'.
Then there's sodbuster...a man who knows how to handle a pitchfork...now
that hurts too!
Greg Aleknevicus
this discussion.
My interest has certainly been piqued.
--Greg
http://pacificcoast.net/~greg/index.html - Wood Cubes & Cardboard
William Nace
>
> "Christian Killoran" wrote in message
> >
> > Personally, I find no character more fun to play than Ling Ho. I love
> > seeing the smirks of the other players at the beginning of the game, and
> > then wiping the smiles off their faces! : )
>
> That little guy will make you see double with all those chops, kicks, etc.
> Doesn't he have the extra foot speed card, too? Last I checked, though, he
> can't outrun a bullet.
>
Ah, but he can outrun a bullet (sortof). He can move 4 hexes
per 5 seconds, which is plenty fast to run around someone (each
player has a 120 degree firing arc). If you're not watching for
it and haven't planned the proper "turn" cards, he'll be behind
you and you will have lost that "aim8".
Bill
Ross W. Maker
>
> I really hope that Rob at Avalon Hill is taking careful note of all
> this discussion.
>
> My interest has certainly been piqued.
Wasn't Gunslinger one of the titles under discussion for licensing to
MMP? Or was that just wishful thinking?
RWM
kaseylee
open for a first person shooter computer game set in the old west. It might
not have all the thrills of using a chain gun or other fancy sci-fi
weaponry, but I think a lot of people would LOVE to play a gunslinger in a
frontier town... Imagine hearing that Black Barney's gang is a-comin', and
having to round up your posse, posting a sniper or two up on the roof of the
Golden Eagle Saloon, and waiting in the middle of Main Street for the
inevitable...
I wonder why nobody has thought to make this game yet, or have I just
missed it?
Randy
The Maverick
>
> "kaseylee" <kase...@email.msn.com> wrote in message
> news:OgjChN3m$GA.246@cpmsnbbsa03...
> > I wonder why nobody has thought to make this game yet, or have I just
> > missed it?
>
Not to mention the Western portions of Duke Nukem: Time to Kill.
the Mav
--
Cliffhanger Serials, Boardgames, Videogames, and Red Baron I
http://www.volcano.net/~themaverick/index.html
The Classic Microgames Museum
http://maverick.brainiac.com/cmm/index.html
The Space and Fantasy Gamer's Guide
http://www.brainiac.com/micro/sfgg/index.html
Shawn Wilson
wide
> open for a first person shooter computer game set in the old west. It
might
> not have all the thrills of using a chain gun or other fancy sci-fi
> weaponry, but I think a lot of people would LOVE to play a gunslinger in a
> frontier town... Imagine hearing that Black Barney's gang is a-comin', and
> having to round up your posse, posting a sniper or two up on the roof of
the
> Golden Eagle Saloon, and waiting in the middle of Main Street for the
> inevitable...