ASL: PAATC
Ethan Strauss
check in Advanced Squad leader. I checked the rules and found that a unit
does not lose its hidden status if it fails the PAATC. So, how do go
about doing it? Casually drop the dice on the table and if you pass
annouce "that was my hidden unit's PAATC, your AFV now dies?"
In the specific case I am worried about telling him what the roll
is for gives alot away. Even telling him I am making a roll
during the advance phase (without telling him why) will probably
clue him in. What should I do?
Thanks,
Ethan
Ole Boe
<IO0...@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> wrote:
There are two instances where a PAATC needs to be made. If a vehicle enters
a Location with concealed/HIP enemy, the concealed/HIP units can choose
between
taking a PAATC or beeing revealed. If they take the PAATC they are Pinned
and
revealed if they fail the PAATC. If the concealed/HIP units makes a
successful PAATC however, the stay concealed/Hidden. Note that this must be
done at the instance the vehicle enters the Location (i.e., the opponent's
MPh) so he will get to know exactly where your HIP units are. He will not
get to know how many
though, since the units make a combined PAATC based on the lowest morale
unit.
The second instance is if a unit wants to _advance_ into a Location with an
enemy vehicle. In order to do this it must first be placed on board under a
"?", so your opponent gets to know where you are once again.
--
If you cut off my head,
what do I say:
Me and my head
or
Me and my body? Ole Boe, ole...@idt.unit.no
Jon Ferro
Ethan> Hello, I have a question about a hidden unit taking in pre-AFV
Ethan> attack tast check in Advanced Squad leader. I checked the rules
Ethan> and found that a unit does not lose its hidden status if it fails
Ethan> the PAATC. So, how do go about doing it? Casually drop the dice
Ethan> on the table and if you pass annouce "that was my hidden unit's
Ethan> PAATC, your AFV now dies?" In the specific case I am worried
Ethan> about telling him what the roll is for gives alot away. Even
Ethan> telling him I am making a roll during the advance phase (without
Ethan> telling him why) will probably clue him in. What should I do?
A12.32 ... If a hidden unit is to move/advance it must first be placed
on the mapboard beneath a "?"; normal concealment rules then apply to
its activity. ...
So the answer is: Wrong, the unit DOES lose its hidden status (which is
downgraded to just concealed) before taking the PAATC. If the PAATC is
not passed, it is allowed to stay concealed, however (Concealment
Loss/Gain Table, Case C), but is not allowed to return to being hidden.
Happy Hacking!
--
-- Jon Ferro Einsprachigkeit ist heilbar.
Ethan Strauss
In article <FERRO.95J...@chopin.chem.cmu.edu>, fe...@chopin.chem.cmu.edu
(Jon Ferro) says:
>
>"Ethan" == Ethan Strauss <IO0...@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> writes:
>Ethan> Hello, I have a question about a hidden unit taking in pre-AFV
>Ethan> attack tast check in Advanced Squad leader. I checked the rules
>Ethan> and found that a unit does not lose its hidden status if it fails
>A12.32 ... If a hidden unit is to move/advance it must first be placed
>on the mapboard beneath a "?"; normal concealment rules then apply to
>its activity. ...
>
>So the answer is: Wrong, the unit DOES lose its hidden status (which is
>downgraded to just concealed) before taking the PAATC. If the PAATC is
>not passed, it is allowed to stay concealed, however (Concealment
>Loss/Gain Table, Case C), but is not allowed to return to being hidden.
I checked the Loss/Gain table Case C and it has a clear exception
for PAATC. If the unit fails the PAATC then it never advances
and thus A12.32 is not relevent.
Ethan
ps. I have almost none of the updates, so this may have changed, but I don't
think so....
pps. We played some more this weekend and I just told him I was making
a roll but didn't want to say why. The squad passed so there was no
problem there. the AFV is now dead..
Jon Ferro
Ethan> Hello, I have a question about a hidden unit taking in pre-AFV
Ethan> attack tast check in Advanced Squad leader. I checked the rules
Ethan> and found that a unit does not lose its hidden status if it fails
Ethan> the PAATC. `
Jon> A12.32 ... If a hidden unit is to move/advance it must first be
Jon> placed on the mapboard beneath a "?"; normal concealment rules then
Jon> apply to its activity. ...
Jon>
Jon> So the answer is: Wrong, the unit DOES lose its hidden status
Jon> (which is downgraded to just concealed) before taking the PAATC.
Jon> If the PAATC is not passed, it is allowed to stay concealed,
Jon> however (Concealment Loss/Gain Table, Case C), but is not allowed
Jon> to return to being hidden.
Ethan> I checked the Loss/Gain table Case C and it has a clear
Ethan> exception for PAATC. If the unit fails the PAATC then it never
Ethan> advances and thus A12.32 is not relevent.
Right, it doesn't actually advance and doesn't lose *concealment*. But
you did actually *intend* for it to advance, which is what A12.32
applies to. You must put the unit on the board under a "?" before doing
anything.
David desJardins
> Except in a few very clear instances, loss of HIP = loss of concealment
> (A12.32). Making a PAATC is not loss of either. This is simply another
> area where you have to trust your opponent. Like when he says that his HIP
> spotter has line of sight to your best leader.
Why would that require you to trust your opponent? If your opponent
claims a line of sight from a HIP unit, then you can check that LOS when
the true location of the HIP unit is revealed (either in the course of
play, or at the end of the scenario from your opponent's written
records). If your opponent claimed a LOS which didn't exist, that
constitutes a forfeit.
David desJardins
Daniel Tartaglia
<fe...@chem.cmu.edu> wrote:
]"Ethan" == Ethan Strauss <IO0...@MAINE.MAINE.EDU>
]"Jon" == fe...@chopin.chem.cmu.edu (Jon Ferro)
]
]Ethan> Hello, I have a question about a hidden unit taking in pre-AFV
]Ethan> attack tast check in Advanced Squad leader. I checked the rules
]Ethan> and found that a unit does not lose its hidden status if it fails
]Ethan> the PAATC. `
]
]Jon> A12.32 ... If a hidden unit is to move/advance it must first be
]Jon> placed on the mapboard beneath a "?"; normal concealment rules then
]Jon> apply to its activity. ...
]Jon>
]Jon> So the answer is: Wrong, the unit DOES lose its hidden status
]Jon> (which is downgraded to just concealed) before taking the PAATC.
]Jon> If the PAATC is not passed, it is allowed to stay concealed,
]Jon> however (Concealment Loss/Gain Table, Case C), but is not allowed
]Jon> to return to being hidden.
]
]Ethan> I checked the Loss/Gain table Case C and it has a clear
]Ethan> exception for PAATC. If the unit fails the PAATC then it never
]Ethan> advances and thus A12.32 is not relevent.
]
]Jon> Right, it doesn't actually advance and doesn't lose *concealment*. But
]Jon> you did actually *intend* for it to advance, which is what A12.32
]Jon> applies to. You must put the unit on the board under a "?" before doing
]Jon> anything.
I don't agree Jon, I never *intend* to advance a pinned unit and that is
what a unit that failed its PAATC is.
Except in a few very clear instances, loss of HIP = loss of concealment
(A12.32). Making a PAATC is not loss of either. This is simply another
area where you have to trust your opponent. Like when he says that his HIP
spotter has line of sight to your best leader.
Ethan, you did right. Simply make the roll and if you succeed then tell
your opponent what is what.
------------------+------------------------------------------
Daniel T. | SCA: Lord Nicolas Bradwater, Deputy KMoC
Clearwater, FL | IGS: DanielT
dani...@gate.net | IRC: DanielT
Michael S. Binder
>I don't agree Jon, I never *intend* to advance a pinned unit and that is
>what a unit that failed its PAATC is.
Bzzzt! Wrong! Order of actions are as follows: 1) HIP unit *intends*
to move/advance and is therefore placed onboard under '?'. 2) Concealed
unit makes and fails PAATC and is therefore pinned. The rules cannot
be read any other way.
Daniel Tartaglia
Binder) wrote:
]In article <daniel_t-100...@192.0.2.1>, dani...@gate.net
The actual rule is "If a hidden unit is to move/advance it must first be
placed on the mapboard beneath a "?";..."
A hidden unit which failed it's PAATC isn't going to move therefore it
doesn't get placed on the board.
Daniel Tartaglia
desJardins) wrote:
]Daniel Tartaglia <dani...@gate.net> writes:
]> Except in a few very clear instances, loss of HIP = loss of concealment
]> (A12.32). Making a PAATC is not loss of either. This is simply another
]> area where you have to trust your opponent. Like when he says that his HIP
]> spotter has line of sight to your best leader.
]
]Why would that require you to trust your opponent? If your opponent
]claims a line of sight from a HIP unit, then you can check that LOS when
]the true location of the HIP unit is revealed (either in the course of
]play, or at the end of the scenario from your opponent's written
]records). If your opponent claimed a LOS which didn't exist, that
]constitutes a forfeit.
Your right of course. You are not *required* to trust your opponent. You
could as him to write down the reason for the roll and check it later.
Michael S. Binder
>The actual rule is "If a hidden unit is to move/advance it must first be
>placed on the mapboard beneath a "?";..."
>
>A hidden unit which failed it's PAATC isn't going to move therefore it
>doesn't get placed on the board.
A unit taking a PAATC is, by definition, attempting to advance. You do
_not_ take a PAATC, pass it, _then_ decide to advance the unit or not.