Shogi (Japanese Chess)
S Johal
Japanese Chess. Is anyone out there interested in playing e-mail
Shogi? Does anyone have a Shogi playing program?
Colin Carruthers, Subindrao Johal,
SARI,
University of Edinburgh,
King's Buildings,
EDINBURGH EH9 3JL.
Scotland.
Tel: +44 31 668 1550.
Fax: +44 31 662 4678.
Email: c...@uk.ac.ed.ee
Bruce Lowerre
> A number of us here are anxious to promote interest in Shogi, i.e.
> Japanese Chess. Is anyone out there interested in playing e-mail
> Shogi? Does anyone have a Shogi playing program?
Does anyone know how to play it? Is it a REAL game or just another
Fairy Chess game?
Systems Staff
Shogi is widely played in Japan but not much in the west. I don't care
for it myself but I sometimes think I'll take another look just as soon
as I have mastered go (a REAL game, not a toy like chess :-).
Books on shogi and equipment for it are available from
Ishi Press International
1400 N. Shoreline Blvd.
Building A-7
Mountain View, CA 94043
(415) 964-7294
Thos Sumner Internet: th...@cca.ucsf.edu
(The I.G.) UUCP: ...ucbvax!ucsfcgl!cca.ucsf!thos
BITNET: thos@ucsfcca
U.S. Mail: Thos Sumner, Computer Center, Rm U-76, UCSF
San Francisco, CA 94143-0704 USA
OS|2 -- an Operating System for puppets.
#include <disclaimer.std>
Louis Blair
>Is [Shogi] a REAL game or just another
>Fairy Chess game?
Shogi sets can be purchased from Ishi Pres
International, 1400 N. Shoreline Blvd., Bldg. A7,
Mountain View, CA 94043. According to the
rules that came with my set: "Shogi, the
Japanese cousin of chess, is descended from
the Indian game Chatur-anga. From India the
game spread to Persia and then to China and
Korea. The Chinese and Koreans created many
variations of the original game, and some of these
came to Japan in the 8th century. Early Japanese
Shogi scarcely resembled the modern game; some
versions had different types of pieces and boards
ranging in size from 9 x 9 to 25 x 25 grids, with
as many as 97 pieces to a side. The modern 9 x 9
board was formalized in the 16th century by the
emperor Go-Nora. Shogi became very popular
with some of the greatest generals of the 16th
and 17th centuries. During this time the first Shogi
championship tournaments were held. The second
champion, Ohashi, set the modern rules for Shogi.
Shogi has a ranking system similar to that used in
GO. The lowest Shogi rank is 15 KYU and counts
backwards to 1 KYU. After 1 KYU the next rank
is 1 dan, the dan ranks increase up to 9 dan. In
Japan only professional players have reached the
highest dan levels. Shogi enjoys great popularity
in Japan and has spread to over 30 countries
worldwide."
Ishi now also sells subsciptions to a Shogi magazine.
Henk Langeveld
It is quite real. Please bear with me, it is a long time since I had
access to a description of the game, and I never actually played it.
Shogi is played on a board of 9x9 fields, with each side having 9
'pawns', one 'rook' and 'bishop' each, 2 'spears', 2 'knights', 2
silver and 2 golden 'generals', and one king.
The fun thing of Shogi, IMO, is that captured pieces may be used as
para-troopers. Instead of doing a normal move, one may drop a captured
piece on the board on any place, provided:
1) The piece does not gain promotion on that place.
2) The piece does not attack the opponent's king.
It may be that the piece itself is not allowed to drop on a vulnerable
spot, but this is all from memory.
To facilitate this exchange, the pieces are not distinguished by
colour, but by orientation. Promotion is different than with western
chess, and chinese chess (it's rather degraded in the latter: pawns may
also move sideways when they've crossed the river).
The Shogi board is divided into three partitions, of three lines each.
Each zone is one player's home base, and the other player's promotion
zone. A piece may gain promotion when a piece ends its move within a
promotion zone. May, because it's not always advantageous to promote a
piece.
A piece is promoted by turning it over. It then becomes a general,
silver or golden. Exceptions: a rook or bishop gains the king's moves.
There could be more exceptions, but this is all from memory, remember?
Finally, here's a summary of the possible moves of every piece:
A single line means one move in that direction is possible. A line
and an asterisk indicate any distance in that direction.
* * * *
\|/ | | \ /
Gold . spear . Rook *-.-* Bishop .
/ \ | / \
* * *
\ /
\|/ | \|/ |
Silver -.- knight . King -.- pawn .
| /|\
Starting position (for your side only):
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ I may have exchanged the
| p | p | p | p | p | p | p | p | p | position of the B and R.
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+ The same applies to S and G.
| | B | | | | | | R | |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
| s | k | S | G | K | G | S | k | s |
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
Try to find a library for the complete rules.
Thanks for your time...
--
Henk Langeveld, Unix SysAdmin | domain: <he...@cs.eur.nl>
Department of Computer Science | phone: +31 10 4081346
Erasmus University Rotterdam | also: lang...@hroeur5.bitnet
Room H5-05, P.O.Box 1738, NL-3000 DR Rotterdam, The Netherlands.
Colin Sachs
> (S Johal) writes:
>> A number of us here are anxious to promote interest in Shogi, i.e.
>
> Does anyone know how to play it? Is it a REAL game or just another
> Fairy Chess game?
Yes, I know how to play it... yes it *is* a REAL game, actually more
difficult to play than chess.
Quick run down:
* It is played on 9x9 square board without color demarcations between
any of the squares.
* There are twenty pieces to a side that are tiles with Japanese
characters naming the piece imprinted or written on one side,
and a modified name on the other side (more on this later). The
tiles are rectanglar in shape and beveled at one end to
indicate to which player they belong (they point toward the
oponents side). Seven of the tiles (for each player) are
larger than the others [these are marked by + later on].
* Each side sets up using the first three rows on thier side of the
board. The first row is occupied by a pawn-like piece. Two squares
on the second row are occupied by a +bishop-like and a +true-rook-like
piece (they are seperated by five empty squares). The back row is
occupied by two rook-like pieces located in the corners,
two knight-like pieces located next to the rook-like pieces,
two pieces whose translation is, literally, +Silver Soldier occupy
the next two inward sqares, and two +Gold Soldiers occupy the
next two, with a +King occupying the centermost square.
* The pawn-like move 1 square forward only
The rook-like (back row) moves any number forward only
The knight-like move in an inverted L - 2 forward, 1 to either side
The bishop-like moves just like the bishop in western chess
The true-rook-like moves like a rook in western chess
The silver soldiers can move 1 any square forward or any diagonal
The gold soldiers can move 1 any square horizontal or verticle or
any forward diagonal
The king can move 1 square any direction
All pieces attack in the direction they move.
* Any captured piece can be brought back into play by the capturing
player in place of a move. The only exception to this are
the pawn-like pieces: only nine can occupy the board per player,
only one per column. The only restriction to the placement of
pieces is that they *must* be placed so that they are capable of
movement at a later time (thus a knight-like piece cannot be place
within the back to rows of the oponents side, for example).
* Any piece, with the exception of the King and Gold Soldier,
can change into a Gold Soldier once it moves within the set-up
area of the opposing player (on to or behind the third row on
his side of the board). This is indicated by the tile being
flipped-over onto it's down side. The piece looses its original
movement capabilities with the exception of the true-rook-like
and bishop-like pieces: these retain thier original movement
capabilities but gain the Gold soldiers movement.
* The goal of the game is to "check-mate" the opponents king.
Note that there is no equivalent word to "check-mate" which
is said when this situation arises. One says 'oltek' [ol-tech]
when the oponents king has been place in "check". When one
is mated, one knows it... it doesn't need to be said other than
"oltek".
Any other questions?
NOTE: replies posted to rec.chess
--
Colin Sachs - csa...@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu
"I believe in everything; nothing is sacred.
I believe in nothing; everything is sacred." -the Chink
Louis Blair
> Any captured piece can be brought back
>into play by the capturing player in place of
>a move. The only exception to this are the
>pawn-like pieces: only nine can occupy the
>board per player, only one per column.
A player can have more than nine pawn-like pieces on
the board if some of them are promoted pawn-like pieces.
The rule is that a player can not have more than one
unpromoted pawn-like piece on a file.
>The only restriction to the placement of
>pieces is that they *must* be placed so
>that they are capable of movement at a
>later time (thus a knight-like piece cannot
>be placed within the back two rows of the
>oponents side, for example).
In addition to the a-piece-must-be-able-to-move rule and
the no-two-unpromoted-pawn-like-pieces-on-the-same-file
rule, there is also the rule that says a player can not
checkmate his opponent with a pawn-like piece drop.
>Any piece, with the exception of the King
>and Gold Soldier,
and the bishop-like piece and the true-rook-like piece
>can change into a Gold Soldier
This is a bad way to think of it. One should say that the
piece becomes promoted and that the promoted form
of the piece has the movement powers of a Gold Soldier.
The distinction is that when a Gold Soldier is captured, it
continues to be a Gold Soldier. When a promoted piece is
captured, it reverts to its unpromoted form.
>once it moves within the set-up area of the
>opposing player (on to or behind the third row
>on his side of the board).
One should mention that promotion is optional unless it is
the only way that the piece can continue to move. Promotion
can occur when a piece enters the promotion zone, when it
moves within the promotion zone or when it leaves the
promotion zone.
>The piece looses its original movement capabilities
>with the exception of the true-rook-like and
>bishop-like pieces: these retain thier original
>movement capabilities but gain the Gold soldiers
>movement.
If you want to think of it this way, you should say that the
promoted bishop-like piece acquires the additional movement
powers of a Gold Soldier, and the true-rook-like piece
acquires the additional movement powers of a Silver Soldier.
Colin Sachs
(Louis Blair) writes:
> In addition to the a-piece-must-be-able-to-move rule and
> the no-two-unpromoted-pawn-like-pieces-on-the-same-file
> rule, there is also the rule that says a player can not
> checkmate his opponent with a pawn-like piece drop.
Now that rule my friend Kiraku Akihiko-san never told me about...
The pawn-like piece can be droped in a position so that the king
cannot move forward though.
> ...This is a bad way to think of it. One should say that the
> piece becomes promoted and that the promoted form
> of the piece has the movement powers of a Gold Soldier.
> The distinction is that when a Gold Soldier is captured, it
> continues to be a Gold Soldier. When a promoted piece is
> captured, it reverts to its unpromoted form.
Now why didn't I think of that wording?
>> once it moves within the set-up area of the
>> opposing player (on to or behind the third row
>> on his side of the board).
> One should mention that promotion is optional unless it is
> the only way that the piece can continue to move. Promotion
> can occur when a piece enters the promotion zone, when it
> moves within the promotion zone or when it leaves the
> promotion zone.
But not once outside the promotion zone.
[remainder deleted but succintly put...]
My problem is I learned in the oral tradition from a Japanese
friend and the rules were never so much discussed as shown and
told. It's difficult to regurgitate experience in words,
especially a mix of Japanese and English when I know only one
of the languages!
--
Colin Sachs USENET: csa...@oucsace.cs.ohiou.edu BITNET: psych112@ouaccvmb
Eric Wang
> A number of us here are anxious to promote interest in Shogi
Shogi is as popular in Japan as chess ("western" chess) is in the US,
England, and probably even the Soviet Union. It allegedly boasts 10 million
players in Japan alone (though this figure may be inflated), has spread to
30 countries around Japan, has an official Federation much like FIDE, and has
an official, formal ranking system much like the chess rankings. There are
amateur, club, university team, and professional shogi players, and
tournaments generate considerable interest and are closely followed.
A considerable amount of literature is generated on the game (though most
of it is in, of course, Japanese), including books by masters, newspaper
columns, and so on. Shogi has been around for roughly as long as western
chess (they, and several other forms of chess, most notably the variant
played in China, all originated from the same primordial game). Within
Japan, it is at least as vital [energetic] as chess is in the US. It
has not spread around the world probably for the same reason that western
chess has not spread into Japan, or chinese chess (xiang-chi) into the
USSR: lack of interest stemming from satisfaction in one's "own" version
of the Game of Kings. Thus, questions such as "Is it just another form
of fairy chess?" arise in the US. Consider that the Japanese go masters
probably wonder the same thing about chess and checkers.
In any case, I will try to describe a few key differences, then explain
what changes to the "look & feel" of the game these differences make.
(There are, in fact, MAJOR differences.)
The board is 9 x 9, and is not checkerboarded. The pieces are played in
the squares, like checkers, not on the intersections. Each side begins
the game with 20 pieces of many different denominations, arranged in 3
rows. There is a King, and the object of the game is to checkmate the
opposing King. The first difference that is immediately apparent is
that the pieces are not figurines, as in chess, but simply flat disks with
characters depicting the denomination inscribed onto them. The disks
are not color-coded or otherwise distinguished from one side to another,
either; ownership is determined solely by which side the piece is "facing",
i.e. to which side it appears to be "right side up". Needless to say,
the physical orientation of pieces is critical; a 180 degree spin causes
a piece to switch sides. This format allows for the reintroduction of
captured pieces as a new piece for the capturing side; the new owner simply
places the piece on the board (subject to restrictions which have been
detailed to some extent in previous postings) such that it now faces the
new owner and not the original owner. (Notice my wild semantical gyrations
as I attempt to keep this article non-sexist.) A piece could conceivably
switch sides an infinite number of times during an (infinitely long) game.
I don't know what the record is in championship play; it would make for a
neat piece of trivia.
This representation of pieces is, you might imagine, incredibly difficult
for a chess player to assimilate. I have seen several diagrams of shogi
games in progress, and it takes me about half a minute just to find all of
the pieces on one side from their orientations, let alone identify the
individual pieces, let alone understanding my "position". After all that
effort, I have to do the same thing with the upside-down pieces on the
other side to determine its "position". Six minutes or so later, I can
begin to form an idea of what's going on, what material balance is like,
who's on the attack and who's defending, and so on. Heck, in rapid play
chess games, you don't have that much time for the ENTIRE GAME!
In any case, the play of the game is vastly different from the "feel" of
western chess. Probably the most fundamental difference with the most
profound effects is the fact that the Pawn-equivalent ("kin") moves and
captures in the same direction, straight forward. The result thereof is
that there is no permanent pawn structure in Shogi, as there is in chess.
There is much less struggle for control and occupancy of crucial squares
with pawns, no long-term exploitation of a small weakness in an immobile
(read: hapless) pawn-chain, and so on. Poor pawn formations are transitory,
not permanent. Passed pawns are not so highly rated (but this is partly
due to the fact that so many pieces can promote); isolated pawns are not
so undesirable; "backward" pawns are not as great a liability.
Another major difference is the phoenix-like resurrection of captured
pieces as members of the captor's army. Because no piece is permanently
lost, material value is no longer the full story. Total material strength
on the board still has meaning, but LOSSES are much less important, since
they are temporary. It has been said that shogi has no endgame, only a
very long (and hideously complex (but that's a chess player's opinion))
middlegame. This middlegame is much more tactical in nature than in chess;
it tends to be rife with exchanges and "sacrifices".
Even the best players of shogi must struggle with the complexities involved.
For example, a recent game for the Championship (which could be called the
World Championship) was resigned by the challenger after 61 moves in 18
hours when he was confronted with forced mate. 18 hours!! Obviously, the
time controls, if there are any, would be very different from those of
chess. Remember that the Japanese also love go, and that masters thereof
think nothing of a game that spreads out over several (three? five? fifteen?)
consecutive days.
As a final note, I'll mention that the shogi ranking system is based not
on points, as in chess, but in slightly fuzzier ranks. The lowest rank
is either 10 or 9 kyu (forget). It proceeds up from there to 1 kyu, then
goes to 1 dan, then up to 10 dan. In the championship example given above,
the champion was 10 dan, while the challenger was 9 dan. Incidentally,
these are much the same ranks used in karate, and I suppose also in judo,
go, and many other pursuits. Amateurs occupy most of the kyu ranks, with
the best of them (weekend tourney players) crossing over into the low dan
ranks. Only dedicated professionals reach the highest dan. (Compare with
our rough ranks of D-class, A-class, GM, IM (or are GM and IM the same?),
and so on.
I have not personally played any shogi, but I have seen several reviews of
it (from which most of this material is drawn), and have heard a few people
wax enthusiastic over it (usually before they trounce me in chess).
I can't really rate the game one way or another. In the simple interests
of diversity, though, I heartily support anybody with dedication enough
to introduce shogi to their group of friends (and vice versa) and to the
net.
May somebody find this review to be useful and interesting.
++erw;
Eric Wang
wa...@a.cs.uiuc.edu
Ronald Azuma
>In article <1...@castle.ed.ac.uk>, s...@castle.ed.ac.uk (S Johal) writes:
>> A number of us here are anxious to promote interest in Shogi
>Does anyone know how to play it?
Yes.
>Is it a REAL game or just another Fairy Chess game?
I'm not sure what you mean. Shogi differs significantly from
Western chess. Some of the more important differences are:
1) The pieces in general are much weaker. Each side has only
one rook and one bishop, and those are the most powerful
pieces in the game. There is no queen.
2) In Western chess, only the pawn can get promoted. In Shogi,
almost every piece can be promoted. Promotion can occur
when a piece reaches the back 3 ranks, instead of the
just the last rank in Western chess.
3) The biggest difference is in capturing. In Western chess,
if you capture a piece, it is removed and stays off the
board for the rest of the game. In Shogi, a captured piece
is not dead. The capturing player removes it and places
it off the board. He now owns that piece. Any time
in the future, the capturing player can use his turn to
drop a captured piece on just about any open space on the
board (instead of moving one of his pieces already on the
board).
This gives Shogi a very different flavor from Western chess.
There is no endgame, since captured pieces return to play.
You can drop a captured bishop or knight to create a
devastating fork. You can quickly reinforce an attack by
dropping pieces. The king must be tightly surrounded by a
group of "bodyguards" at all times to avoid being
checkmated by a surprise drop attack.
Whether you call this a "real" game is your opinion, I suppose.
I've heard that it is popular in Japan and that many Japanese newspapers
run Shogi columns much as some US newspapers run regular chess
columns.
Ron Azuma
(az...@dopey.cs.unc.edu)
Pat Hirayama
--- misc. details omitted for space ---
> that the pieces are not figurines, as in chess, but simply flat disks with
> characters depicting the denomination inscribed onto them. The disks
> are not color-coded or otherwise distinguished from one side to another,
> either; ownership is determined solely by which side the piece is "facing",
> i.e. to which side it appears to be "right side up". Needless to say,
Actually. In Shogi, the pieces are irregular pentagons. Your pieces
are the ones which (a) the writing is right side up, for you to read;
and (b) the pointed end is pointing away from you ... that is, toward
your opponent.
> the physical orientation of pieces is critical; a 180 degree spin causes
> a piece to switch sides. This format allows for the reintroduction of
Thus making this game far more complex than chess, since one must now
consider the possibilities involved in your opponent using a captured
piece against you to thwart your attempts at checkmating their king.
At any rate, as soon as I get around to it, I will check to see whether
or not the North American Shogi Federation (last heard of in Seattle) is
still in existence. If so, I will report back to the Net about how
to contact them.
Incidentally, if anyone is interested in playing via e-mail, let me know,
I love to play shogi. :)
Pat Hirayama * 28625-47th Place South * Auburn, Washington 98001-1140
Internet: hirayama%sumax...@beaver.cs.washington.edu
UUCP: ..!uw-beaver!sumax!hirayama
BSCS looking for job. Please send all offers above.
--
Pat Hirayama * 28625-47th Place South * Auburn, Washington 98001-1140
Internet: hirayama%sumax...@beaver.cs.washington.edu
UUCP: ..!uw-beaver!sumax!hirayama
BSCS looking for job. Please send all offers above.
Louis Blair
Henk Langeveld writes:
>Instead of doing a normal move, one may drop a
>captured piece on the board on any place, provided:
>1) The piece does not gain promotion on that place.
You can drop a piece in the promotion zone or outside
the promotion zone. In either case the piece "lands"
in its unpromoted form. (The promotion zone is the
last three ranks.)
>2) The piece does not attack the opponent's king.
>It may be that the piece itself is not allowed to drop
>on a vulnerable spot, but this is all from memory.
It is okay to drop a piece that attacks the king. The
only restriction of this kind is that you can not checkmate
the king with a pawn drop. The other restrictions are
that spears and pawns can not be dropped on the last
rank, knights can not be dropped on the last rank or the
next to the last rank, and pawns can not be dropped in
a file where the player already has an unpromoted pawn.
I guess I should mention that pieces can only be dropped
on unoccupied squares.
>A piece may gain promotion when a piece ends its move
>within a promotion zone.
Promotion for a piece can
occur when it enters the promotion zone (from
some other part of the board), when it moves within
the promotion zone, or when it moves out of the promotion
zone. Promotion for a piece making such a move is
usually optional. When a pawn or spear moves to the
last rank, it must promote. When a knight moves to the
last rank or the next to the last rank, it must promote.
>A piece is promoted by turning it over. It then becomes
>a general, silver or golden.
Promoted pawns, promoted knights, promoted Silver generals,
and promoted spears all must move like Gold generals. The
king and the Gold general never promote.
>Finally, here's a summary of the possible moves of every piece:
>A single line means one move in that direction is possible. A line
>and an asterisk indicate any distance in that direction.
>
> * * * *
> \|/ | | \ /
>Gold . spear . Rook *-.-* Bishop .
> / \ | / \
> * * *
> \ /
> \|/ | \|/ |
>Silver -.- knight . King -.- pawn .
> | /|\
You have interchanged the movement powers of the Gold
general and the Silver general.
Eric Wang writes:
>the pieces are not figurines, as in chess, but simply flat
>disks with characters depicting the denomination inscribed
>onto them. The disks are not color-coded or otherwise
>distinguished from one side to another, either; ownership is
>determined solely by which side the piece is "facing",
>i.e. to which side it appears to be "right side up".
Actually, the pieces look a bit like pointed tombstones,
lying flat. They are placed so that they point forward,
towards the opponent. The shape of the piece is often
not depicted in diagrams in books and newspapers.
>are GM and IM the same?
No, GM is higher than IM.
From Ishi Press International, 1400 North Shoreline Blvd.,
Bldg. A7, Mountain View, CA 94043, one can order the
book, (S1) Shogi For Beginners by John Fairbairn for $12.45
and a shogi set (VS612) for $27.45.
Question: When is a game a REAL game?
Suggested answer: When there are books about the game
that do not include the rules.
Chris Long
> How do you get a draw in shogi? There is never insufficient material, and
> since pieces capture as they move a stalemate would require a serious
> blunder. It seems to be that with all the pieces remaining at least
> potentially in play, that the game is inherently unstable.
> Is there a situation where a draw is forced or attack is disadvantageous
> for both players?
There are essentially two ways in which a game of shogi can end in a
draw. A standard shogi rule states that if the same position (including
pieces in hand) occurs four times in the same game (with continuous
checks by one side not allowed), the game is declared no-contest and
is either treated as a draw or is replayed with the colors reversed.
The second way is through impasse, or jishogi, where both players
have advanced their kings into the enemy camp. If both players then
have at least 24 points of material the game is declared no-contest.
The following is an example of a draw by repetition under the old
rule; these differ from the new rule in that a game was declared
no-contest if the same *sequence* of moves occured *three* times
in a row (the new rule is much better).
{ Taken from _Shogi for Beginners_ by John Fairbairn }
Nakahara Makoto (9-dan) vs Yonenaga Kunio (9-dan)
Even game
1. P-7f P-8d
2. S-6h P-3d
3. S-7g S-6b
4. P-2f S-4b
5. S-4h G-3b
6. G-7h P-5d
7. P-5f K-4a
8. K-6i G-5b
9. P-3f S-3c
10. G-5h P-4d
11. P-6f P-7d
12. B-7i B-3a
13. P-1f P-9d
14. P-9f P-8e
15. G5h-6g P-1d
16. L-1g G5b-4c
17. R-1h S-2d
18. B-6h P-6d
19. K-7i B-4b
20. K-8h K-3a
21. S-3g S-6c
22. S-2h N-7c
23. S-2g P-6e
24. Px6e Nx6e
25. S-6f P-8f
26. Px8f Bx8f
27. P*8g Bx6h+
28. Rx6h R-8c
29. P*6d Sx6d
30. B*5b R-8d
31. B-6c+ P-7e
32. +B-6b R-8c
33. +B-7b R-8d
34. +B-6b R-8c
35. +B-7b R-8d
36. +B-6b R-8c
37. +B-7b R-8d
No-contest by repetition.
Undoubtedly, under the new rules the game would have continued
38. +B-6b R-8c, 39. +B-7b R-8d; no-contest.
The following diagram shows the situation after move 31:
9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
Hands: +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
a | l | | | | | | k | n | l | a
B +---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
3P b | | | | | | | g | | | b
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
c | | | |+B | | g | | p | | c
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
d | p | r | | s | p | p | p | s | p | d
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
Hands: e | | | p | n | | | | | | e
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
f | P | | P | S | P | | P | P | P | f
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
g | | P | | G | | P | | S | L | g
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
h | | K | G | R | | | | | | h
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
i | L | N | | | | | | N | | i
+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+---+
9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1
--
Chris Long, 272 Hamilton St. Apt. 1, New Brunswick NJ 08901 (201) 846-5569
"Knights before Bishops, except after e."
Louis Blair
>How do you get a draw in shogi?
Most Shogi pieces have only a limited ability
to move backward. If the kings manage to
change sides, it is very hard for either player
to get at the other.
Bryan Donaldson
A friend of mine recently dug up an old game of his. Unfortunately,
he's lost the rules, and the company which produced it has gone
down the tubes.
The game is : Starfall, put out in 1979 by Yaquinto Publications.
What we'd like to do is find someone who has the game, and get a copy
of the rules from them. If you can help us with this (or if you know
where we can get in touch with the game's developers), Email to
me, and I'll get with you.
Thanks.
Bryan G. Donaldson
--
Bryan Donaldson gatech!stiatl!bryan
Sales Technologies, Inc
3399 Peachtree Rd, NE
Atlanta, GA (404) 841-4000
Mary K. Kuhner;335 Mulford
>How do you get a draw in shogi?
Although, as I recall, perpetual check is not a draw in Shogi
(I believe it is a loss for the one giving check, a rule
clearly designed to avoid draws) you could still have a situation
in which one player is losing but has a repetitive series of
non-check threats which the other player cannot ignore without
losing. This would seem to be a draw.
I've played a few games and kibitzed quite a few more, and I've
never seen a draw (except in 5-minute Shogi) either.
I was struck by how well being good at chess correlated with
being good at Shogi--I played in the Seattle Cherry Blossom
Festival tournament when I'd barely learned how the pieces
moved, and didn't make a complete fool of myself (second in
the beginners' division, I think--this was a while ago).
I was about USCF 1800 at the time. But it doesn't *feel*
quite like chess.
Mary Kuhner
mkku...@enzyme.berkeley.edu
Louis Blair
>There are no draws! The player who repeats a
>board position for the third time loses the game.
>The player who is left without a legal move loses.
In the book, Shogi for Beginners, John Fairbairn writes:
in the early seventeenth century ... a government sponsored
office headed by the strongest player, ... Ohashi Soko ... ,
made the first attempt at formalising the rules of shogi ... He
declared the player responsible for initiating a repetition of
moves the loser. In more recent times, unless continuous
checks are involved, the game has been declared no-contest,
or a draw. There is also a rare case not envisaged by Ohashi
Soko where both kings have entered the enemy camps and
cannot be mated. That too is declared a no contest in some
cases. ... the modern rules of shogi do not give us in the West
good guidance on what to do in such cases ... The Japanese
are not inclined to analyze things closely and to cater for every
possibility, as we are. They plod on and if a problem arises
they will have a senior person give an ad hoc ruling. ... we
cannot apply the Japanese ethos in full and there are times
when we demand a decision in cases where a Japanese
would not (we of course do not have easy access to senior,
professional players to give rulings). Fortunately this happens
only in tournament play where standards are already being
laid down for the West by the Shogi Association. Nearly all
of the problems that can occur have occurred of course, and
have been resolved. Here are the solutions. Some solutions
are actually rules of shogi, but others are ruling made by the
Japanese Shogi Federation, the professional players' guild (of
which the Shogi Association is a Chapter). These are not
always widely known in Japan but in the West they have
been raised to the status of rules by the Shogi Association in
response to the demand by westerners for precision. ... It is
possible to have a situation in which the same positions occur
repeatedly because both players insist on playing the same
sequences of moves. The Japanese have never found a
satisfactory solution to this and have tried various rules. The
latest change was in May 1983. It is now the rule that if the
same position occurs four times in a game, the game is
declared no-contest, but continuous checks by one side are
not allowed. ... In professional play, when a game is declared
no-contest it is usually replayed with colours reversed, but in
amateur tournaments it is commonly treated as a draw. ...
The previous rule was that no-contest was declared if the
same sequence of moves was played three times by both
players. ... Impasse ... refers to a case when both players have
advanced their kings into the enemy camp ... or are in a
position to ensure being able to do so, and mate of either king
has become impossible. As soon as both players agree, the
game ceases and the value of the pieces currently possessed
by each player both on the board and in the hand is totalled
on the basis that rooks and bishops count 5 points each and
all other pieces (except the kings, which are ignored) count
1 point. Promotions are disregarded. If a player has a total
of at least 24 points he cannot lose. If both players have at
least 24 points the game is no contest (to be replayed or
counted as a draw). If one player has less than 24 points he
loses. So long as a king can be mated or pieces can still be
captured to the extent of affecting each player's total point
score, a player can validly refuse to stop and count up. But
there is no rule about what to do if a player refuses to count
up simply because he would expect to lose or because he is
deluding himself that he can either mate the opposing king or
capture more pieces. Even professional players do not always
agree first time on when to stop a game in such a case. The
guidance given for amateur players (and accepted as a rule
by the Shogi Association for the West) is that in such cases
of dispute it is sufficient for one player to move all his pieces
into the enemy camp so that they are all protected. The game
then ends and is counted up. This is a messy rule ... with only
one good feature: it has to be applied only very rarely.
>Average game length is something that I have no
>knowledge of
For what it is worth, Fairbairn's book contains 17 games with
an average length of 55 moves (counted western style). Of
course books like this would have a greater tendency to
include short games.
>With respect to the person who was complaining
>of the difficulty in reading board diagrams, my
>experience has been that it takes the same length
>of time to learn the symbols for shogi as it does to
>learn the symbols for chess.
With Shogi, one has to learn the symbol for each type of piece,
the symbols for the promoted peices, and the diagram equivalent
of each of these symbols (not always the same as the symbol
used on the piece itself). One also has to be able to recognize
all these symbols even when they are upside down. It's not as
hard as it sounds, but I can testify that, for a westerner, at least,
it is certainly harder than learning the pieces and diagram
symbols for western chess.
Fiacha of
> PS: Does anyone know what precentage of Sogi games end in draws between
> players of the class equivalent to GMs? What is the average number of
> moves in games between such skilled players?
There are no draws! The player who repeats a board position for the third time
loses the game. The player who is left without a legal move loses.
Average game length is something that I have no knowledge of, merely the
expectation that it is 50% more than chess.
The other feature that makes the game playable is the handicapping system.
The handicap steps match the difference in skill levels of the players
allowing competetive games between players of widely differing skill levels.
My book is at home so I cannot list the handicaps.
With respect to the person who was complaining of the difficulty in reading
board diagrams, my experience has been that it takes the same length of time
to learn the symbols for shogi as it does to learn the symbols for chess.
--
Nigel R Haslock | If you have to be warped to weave, __-------___
Manalapan NJ 07726 | what do you have to be to forge? |___ __ ___/
nrh%hjuxa...@decuac.dec.com| | |
or ...!rutgers!hjuxa!nrh | Hotter! Make the sparks fly. /____\
Louis Blair
>as soon as I get around to it, I will
>check to see whether or not the North
>American Shogi Federation (last heard
>of in Seattle) is still in existence. If so,
>I will report back to the Net about how
>to contact them.
The December 1985 issue of Chess Life had an article about Shogi written
by James Riley. It had an address for the North American Shogi
Federation, but when I wrote to them I received an answer from Mr. Riley
saying that the Federation was going out of business and offering to
sell Shogi sets and books at discount prices. I sent an order for about
$30 worth of Shogi stuff, but I never received any of it, although my
check was cashed. Further inquiries from me were ignored. I wrote to
Chess Life suggesting that they warn people that the North American
Shogi Federation was no longer in business but Larry Parr only responded
to me by saying that Chess Life was not responsible for the actions
taken by someone after writing an article for Chess Life. (Can you
believe that Larry Evans thinks that Parr was the best editor Chess Life
ever had? Incredible!) Anyway, if anyone can help me get in touch with
Mr. Riley, I would certainly appreciate it. I'd like to talk to him.
Louis Blair
>I have seen several diagrams of shogi
>games in progress, and it takes me about
>half a minute just to find all of the pieces
>on one side from their orientations, let alone
>identify the individual pieces, let alone
>understanding my "position". After all that
>effort, I have to do the same thing with the
>upside-down pieces on the other side to
>determine its "position". Six minutes or so
>later, I can begin to form an idea of what's
>going on, what material balance is like, who's
>on the attack and who's defending, and so on.
>Heck, in rapid play chess games, you don't
>have that much time for the ENTIRE GAME!
The Games Gang, Ltd. (1107 Broadway, Suite 1516,
New York, N. Y. 10010) sells Shogi sets that have
been modified so that they are easier for Western
people to use. Instead of Japanese characters each
piece is marked with a symbol that indicates how it
moves. Ishi Press (1400 N. Shoreline Blvd., Bldg. A7,
Mountain View, CA 94043) sells subscriptions to a
Shogi magazine that uses diagrams that are also
modified to make understanding easier.