Call to Action - Help out Alan Moon.
Nick Danger
from Alan Moon's interview by Stephen Glenn for Funagain Games:
"I wish someone would come up with a name for the type of games we
love. I've heard lots of horrible names over the last ten years like
Doily Games and Fluffy Games. I find these insulting as well as
meaningless. I don't mind the term German Games. But I also don't
think this is the right name, because it simply doesn't tell you what
it stands for. I've thought about this a lot, and considered things
like Modern Games, New Games, Family Strategy Games, etc. Unless
someone has a better idea, I'd suggest just calling them Board Games."
Let's put our heads together and see if we can find something catchy
that will stick for this type of gaming. Offer up any suggestions,
then we can compile them and maybe have an informal vote. Narrow it
down to the top three or four choices, vote again, and let's start
using the winning term for awhile and see if it "takes".
I'll start off with a fairly simple one: Nouveau Games
Meaning a fresh, innovating style of gaming.
Let 'em rip.
--
- Nick
Eliminate RAP to send me an email
Akke Monasso
> I'll start off with a fairly simple one: Nouveau Games
> Meaning a fresh, innovating style of gaming.
yes, but is doesn't say much about the game type.
I still like 'game of strategy' best.
--
regards,
Akke Monasso
akke[at]monasso[dot]demon[dot]nl
bruno faidutti
or gathering games.
I don't like "german games" - not all of the are german
I don't like "family games" - I don't play with my family
I hate "strategy games" - i don't like strategy
Boardgames is not so bad - but more and more games use only cards.
--
Bruno Faidutti
Games and Unicorns
9 bis rue Alphonse Daudet
30133 LES ANGLES - FRANCE
http://faidutti.free.fr
faid...@free.fr
Mike Schneider'
<ne...@monasso.demon.nl> wrote:
> On rec.games.board, Nick Danger wrote:
>
> > I'll start off with a fairly simple one: Nouveau Games
> > Meaning a fresh, innovating style of gaming.
>
> yes, but is doesn't say much about the game type.
>
> I still like 'game of strategy' best.
Slogan: "Games Smart People Play".
Mike Schneider, VRWC Sentinel Outpost. "Autoguns, on-line!" +--+--+--+
Reply to mike1@@@winternet.com sans two @@, or your reply won't reach me.
Glenn Kuntz
bruno faidutti <faid...@free.fr> wrote in message
news:faidutti-0E9021...@news.free.fr...
> In french we have "jeux de société", which means something like society
> or gathering games.
But not all are multi-player games either - some are 2-player
> I don't like "german games" - not all of the are german
> I don't like "family games" - I don't play with my family
> I hate "strategy games" - i don't like strategy
>
> Boardgames is not so bad - but more and more games use only cards.
Since one of the favored features of these games are the abundance of player
options and decision-making, how about "decisive games"?
Keith Jones
"Nick Danger" <nickra...@gmx.net> wrote in message
> "I wish someone would come up with a name for the type of games we
> love.
How about "Leisure games". Hmmm, sounds familiar (if you live in the UK).
Peter Clinch
> Since one of the favored features of these games are the abundance of player
> options and decision-making, how about "decisive games"?
Maybe... but then again I'm not really too sure about that... ;-)
Any term I can think of is either too long to be snappy/memorable, or
not really saying anything. Maybe something like "contemporary games",
not as actually *meaning* anything but perhaps alerting Mr. Joseph
Public and his spouse and family that there's something to hand that
isn't Monopoly/Cluedo/Scrabble and doesn't have lots of cards with
categories on them and zero strategy beyond arriving at the finish
faster than anyone else.
Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
Geenius at Wrok
> All right, a call to action for all board gamers. Here's an excerpt
> from Alan Moon's interview by Stephen Glenn for Funagain Games:
>
> "I wish someone would come up with a name for the type of games we
> love. I've heard lots of horrible names over the last ten years like
> Doily Games and Fluffy Games. I find these insulting as well as
> meaningless. I don't mind the term German Games. But I also don't
> think this is the right name, because it simply doesn't tell you what
> it stands for. I've thought about this a lot, and considered things
> like Modern Games, New Games, Family Strategy Games, etc. Unless
> someone has a better idea, I'd suggest just calling them Board Games."
>
> Let's put our heads together and see if we can find something catchy
> that will stick for this type of gaming.
"Family strategy" hits pretty close to the mark for me. The problem with
simply using "board games," IMO, is overcoming the conventional wisdom
that board games are for children ... and "adult board games" poses
obvious ambiguity problems.
"New games" has already picked up certain connotations from the New Games
movement of the '70s.
--
"To see what's right and not do it is cowardice." -- Confucius
"It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for
what you don't want and get it." -- Eugene Debs
"Without the pursuit of justice, there is no pursuit of happiness."
-- Ralph Nader
THE LESSER EVIL IS STILL EVIL - VOTE FOR RALPH NADER NOV. 7!
Geenius at Wrok
> In french we have "jeux de société", which means something like society
> or gathering games.
That kinda sounds like what we in the States would call "party games" --
i.e., the ones with their origins in parlor games. The games in our
anonymous genre tend to be more involved than that.
I'd suggest "deep games," but the fans of the Unending Battle of 10,000
Maleficent Chits would howl at the suggestion that anything one could
finish in under six hours might be "deep."
Geenius at Wrok
> Any term I can think of is either too long to be snappy/memorable, or
> not really saying anything. Maybe something like "contemporary games",
> not as actually *meaning* anything but perhaps alerting Mr. Joseph
> Public and his spouse and family that there's something to hand that
> isn't Monopoly/Cluedo/Scrabble and doesn't have lots of cards with
> categories on them and zero strategy beyond arriving at the finish
> faster than anyone else.
Or "contemporary board games." I kinda like that one.
Justin B. Green
> Let's put our heads together and see if we can find something catchy
> that will stick for this type of gaming.
I use "Eurogames" and I know I got the word from someone who posts here.
The description is lacking and a bit inaccurate, but it IS catchy and
people invariably know what you're talking about when you use it. They
know it doesn't exclude designers like Moon, Sackson, and Borg.
Glenn Kuntz
Peter Clinch <p.j.c...@dundee.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:39E70EF7...@dundee.ac.uk...
> Glenn Kuntz wrote:
>
> > Since one of the favored features of these games are the abundance of
player
> > options and decision-making, how about "decisive games"?
>
> Maybe... but then again I'm not really too sure about that... ;-)
>
> not really saying anything. Maybe something like "contemporary games",
> not as actually *meaning* anything but perhaps alerting Mr. Joseph
> Public and his spouse and family that there's something to hand that
> isn't Monopoly/Cluedo/Scrabble and doesn't have lots of cards with
> categories on them and zero strategy beyond arriving at the finish
> faster than anyone else.
Ok, at the risk of sounding cliché, how about "new wave games"?
It *is* somewhat descriptive of their phenomenon, and may at least get John
Q. Public to ask what they are...
John Cartmell
<Pine.SGI.4.20.001013...@fulcrum.physbio.mssm.edu>,
It wouldn't work here. The assumption would be a link to a currency that we
might (or not) join.
--
Fleur Designs - Manchester UK http://www.cartmell.demon.co.uk
~ designer craft products ~ information products ~ information services ~
~ see our unique modular board games at the:
Cresta Court Hotel, Altrincham on Sunday 22 October 2000 (10am-4pm) ~
and in Acorn User - November 2000
Glenn Kuntz
Geenius at Wrok <gee...@enteract.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.NEB.3.96.100101...@shell-3.enteract.com...
> On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Peter Clinch wrote:
>
> > not really saying anything. Maybe something like "contemporary games",
> > not as actually *meaning* anything but perhaps alerting Mr. Joseph
> > Public and his spouse and family that there's something to hand that
> > isn't Monopoly/Cluedo/Scrabble and doesn't have lots of cards with
> > categories on them and zero strategy beyond arriving at the finish
> > faster than anyone else.
>
Maybe it's just me, but "contemporary" sounds an awful lot like "topical"
i.e. ephemeral, like the game of the week - those that make fun of whoever's
in the white house, whatever movie is popular, etc. - those games that are
fun once, but after the joke/fad has worn off, they wind up in the trash or
at the garage sale.
Bagheera
Just the other day I was talking with my brother, the non-gamer, about
what games he was going to share with his child (who is now 1). He
replied, "Well, I'm partial to Half Life and Unreal, so I might start
with those, and maybe Rollercoaster Tycoon to help stimulate his
creativity."
So I told him that wasn't what I was asking and then showed him my vast
collection of board games. "No, I was talking about conventional
social games like boardgames and cardgames."
His response, "You mean B O R E D games. No one plays those things
anymore."
So the first thing to do is to decimate the stigma of the name board
with its homonym bored.
To counter this, I would suggest names like:
Intellectual Games
or
Interactive Games (this may be confused with computer games, but I'm
not sure)
In article <h8vcusotnj557iue3...@4ax.com>,
nickra...@gmx.net wrote:
> All right, a call to action for all board gamers. Here's an excerpt
> from Alan Moon's interview by Stephen Glenn for Funagain Games:
>
> "I wish someone would come up with a name for the type of games we
> love. I've heard lots of horrible names over the last ten years like
> Doily Games and Fluffy Games. I find these insulting as well as
> meaningless. I don't mind the term German Games. But I also don't
> think this is the right name, because it simply doesn't tell you what
> it stands for. I've thought about this a lot, and considered things
> like Modern Games, New Games, Family Strategy Games, etc. Unless
> someone has a better idea, I'd suggest just calling them Board Games."
>
> Let's put our heads together and see if we can find something catchy
> that will stick for this type of gaming. Offer up any suggestions,
> then we can compile them and maybe have an informal vote. Narrow it
> down to the top three or four choices, vote again, and let's start
> using the winning term for awhile and see if it "takes".
>
> I'll start off with a fairly simple one: Nouveau Games
> Meaning a fresh, innovating style of gaming.
>
> Let 'em rip.
>
> --
> - Nick
>
> Eliminate RAP to send me an email
>
--
Bagherra <jaebear @ frenzy.com>
http://www.frenzy.com/~jaebear
"There is no spoon."
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
dand...@my-deja.com
Alternative Games. When people see my game collection and ask where is
Monopoly or Life, I often tell them that I only have Good Games.
Dan
In article <h8vcusotnj557iue3...@4ax.com>,
nickra...@gmx.net wrote:
> All right, a call to action for all board gamers. Here's an excerpt
> from Alan Moon's interview by Stephen Glenn for Funagain Games:
>
> "I wish someone would come up with a name for the type of games we
> love. I've heard lots of horrible names over the last ten years like
> Doily Games and Fluffy Games. I find these insulting as well as
> meaningless. I don't mind the term German Games. But I also don't
> think this is the right name, because it simply doesn't tell you what
> it stands for. I've thought about this a lot, and considered things
> like Modern Games, New Games, Family Strategy Games, etc. Unless
> someone has a better idea, I'd suggest just calling them Board
Games."
>
> Let's put our heads together and see if we can find something catchy
> that will stick for this type of gaming. Offer up any suggestions,
> then we can compile them and maybe have an informal vote. Narrow it
> down to the top three or four choices, vote again, and let's start
> using the winning term for awhile and see if it "takes".
>
> I'll start off with a fairly simple one: Nouveau Games
> Meaning a fresh, innovating style of gaming.
>
> Let 'em rip.
>
> --
> - Nick
>
> Eliminate RAP to send me an email
>
Mike Bialecki
:*then we can compile them and maybe have an informal vote. Narrow it
:*down to the top three or four choices, vote again, and let's start
:*using the winning term for awhile and see if it "takes".
First let me vote against one of the suggestions. I don't like "Family
Strategy Games". I'm in grad school here in Salt Lake City where any
mention of the word "Family" brings to mind a bland quaintness that I
definately don't associate with my gaming experience, they may as well be
referred to as "Doily Games".
I like "Euro-games" quite a bit.
How about "Extreme boardames" or "X-boardgames" ;)
Or how about "Decision-Driven games"?
Alright, maybe their a bit far-fetched...I'm just brainstorming.
--
-Mike
"It's one thing when your hobbies interfere with your work, but when your
hobbies interfere with your hobbies..."
David Alex Lamb
Glenn Kuntz <crok...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>Ok, at the risk of sounding cliché, how about "new wave games"?
>It *is* somewhat descriptive of their phenomenon, and may at least get John
>Q. Public to ask what they are...
It seems to me that this and several other similar suggestions (contemprary,
modern, nouvelle, ...) are all terms that will become dated quickly.
"Boardgame" is a term that can last forever, as can "card game"; let's try to
think of something of similar potential longevity.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/
David Alex Lamb
Geenius at Wrok <gee...@enteract.com> wrote:
>"Family strategy" hits pretty close to the mark for me.
It has some good points. For the person who said s/he doesn't play these
games with family members, I'd offer the analogy that "family movies" and
"family TV shows" are things you *can* watch with your family, not things you
*only* watch with your family.
But the (minor) trouble for me is that it would appear to suggest "games
simple enough for children". The "strategy" part is supposed to counter that
somewhat, but some might think "the strategy would have to be simple for
children to be able to play".
Justin B. Green
> Justin B. Green <gr...@inka.mssm.edu> wrote:
>
> > I use "Eurogames" and I know I got the word from someone who posts
> > here. The description is lacking and a bit inaccurate, but it IS
> > catchy and people invariably know what you're talking about when you
> > use it. They know it doesn't exclude designers like Moon, Sackson,
> > and Borg.
>
> It wouldn't work here. The assumption would be a link to a currency
> that we might (or not) join.
I don't know what the feeling for the prefix 'Euro-' is in Europe these
days, but in North America it doesn't automatically reference the new
currency. The prefix generally connotes a high aesthetic and
sophistication, although perhaps also coldness or pretentiousness. In any
case, when I describe these games as 'Eurogames' to American non-gamers,
it generally sets them above Monopoly (etc.) and children's games, and
differentiates them from classic abstract games (Chess, etc.), party
games, wargames, and RPGs.
In general, it helps to convince the sort of people who would like to play
these sorts of games to play them.
Do Europeans even NEED a new term? I think of it over there as a paradise
where these excellent board games are standard fare. But then again, I've
also heard that Monopoly is still the biggest seller in Germany (yipes!).
David Alex Lamb
Bagheera, the jungle scout <bagh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>Intellectual Games
For the North American public at least, words like "intellectual" or
"analytic" or perhaps even "duh, you have to use a brain with this game" might
be turn-offs; never underestimate the anti-intellectual cultural theme in both
Canada and the US. I can't speak for Europe.
"Strategy" is good because it's less threatening. Armchair quarterbacks are
willing to think about "strategy".
Peter Sarrett
> Let's put our heads together and see if we can find something catchy
> that will stick for this type of gaming.
I'm partial to "social strategy games".
- Peter
Mike Mayer
Maybe we should relate the new name to something the general public has
already embraced. How about calling "German games": Multi-user,
non-electronic computer games programmed with un-artificial intellgence
played on a horzontal energy-saving screen.
Or Munecgpwuaipoahess for short.
dand...@my-deja.com wrote:
> n article <h8vcusotnj557iue3...@4ax.com>,
EGDUSA1
> That kinda sounds like what we in the States would call "party games" --
> i.e., the ones with their origins in parlor games. The games in our
> anonymous genre tend to be more involved than that.
>
> I use "Eurogames" and I know I got the word from someone who posts here.
> The description is lacking and a bit inaccurate, but it IS catchy and
> people invariably know what you're talking about when you use it. They
> know it doesn't exclude designers like Moon, Sackson, and Borg.
Well while I like Justin's idea, given that I distribute Eurogames here in the
US, I think that some of the other manufacturers would be a bit reluctant to
jump on that particular band wagon.
Following along the lines of what "Geenius" said about parlor games, how about
Cafe Games? This name pays homage to the games' roots, and also has a
New/Neuveau/Euro sound to it.
Bret Smith
> Maybe we should relate the new name to something the general public has
> already embraced. How about calling "German games": Multi-user,
> non-electronic computer games programmed with un-artificial intellgence
> played on a horzontal energy-saving screen.
>
> Or Munecgpwuaipoahess for short.
I like it... has a rather Native American feel now that I think about it...
Bret
frank_...@my-deja.com
nickra...@gmx.net wrote:
> All right, a call to action for all board gamers. Here's an excerpt
> from Alan Moon's interview by Stephen Glenn for Funagain Games:
>
> "I wish someone would come up with a name for the type of games we
> love. I've heard lots of horrible names over the last ten years like
> Doily Games and Fluffy Games. I find these insulting as well as
> meaningless. I don't mind the term German Games. But I also don't
> think this is the right name, because it simply doesn't tell you what
> it stands for. I've thought about this a lot, and considered things
> like Modern Games, New Games, Family Strategy Games, etc. Unless
> someone has a better idea, I'd suggest just calling them Board Games."
>
>
> Meaning a fresh, innovating style of gaming.
>
> Let 'em rip.
>
> --
> - Nick
>
> Eliminate RAP to send me an email
>
still board games, just as Monopoly and Life are, but they emphasize
strategy rather than luck.
Geenius at Wrok
> To counter this, I would suggest names like:
>
> Intellectual Games
In the U.S. market, this will be the kiss of death.
Geenius at Wrok
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Nick Danger wrote:
>
> > Let's put our heads together and see if we can find something catchy
> > that will stick for this type of gaming.
>
> I'm partial to "social strategy games".
Hey, this one's not bad.
Justin B. Green
> > "Justin B. Green" gr...@inka.mssm.edu said: I use "Eurogames" and
> > I know I got the word from someone who posts here. The description
> > is lacking and a bit inaccurate, but it IS catchy and people
> > invariably know what you're talking about when you use it. They
> > know it doesn't exclude designers like Moon, Sackson, and Borg.
>
> Well while I like Justin's idea, given that I distribute Eurogames
> here in the US, I think that some of the other manufacturers would be
> a bit reluctant to jump on that particular band wagon.
>
> Following along the lines of what "Geenius" said about parlor games,
> how about Cafe Games? This name pays homage to the games' roots, and
> also has a New/Neuveau/Euro sound to it.
I forgot about the Eurogames brand. Oh well, I'll probably use
'Eurogames' anyway...it seems to get the point across. I also like 'Cafe
Games', but I happen to (irrationally) detest American cafes...and I
cringe whenever I look in a Starbucks and see 'Cranium' on sale. 'Parlor
games' _would_ be perfect, but I can't help thinking of Charades, Ghost,
and the dictionary game (three of my faves). And to my ears, any term
with 'strategy', 'intellectual' or 'family' in it just doesn't sound any
fun.
I love Dan's suggestion: 'Good Games'. I happen to use this term in all
seriousness when someone suggests playing something like Monopoly or
Jenga.
Peter T Davies
FAmily STrategy Board And Card games
= FASTBAC games ?
Although I accept the objections against terms like family, strategy, etc.,
this would provide a handy abbreviation, and would allow an opportunity to
explain the games in a way that no single term seems to be capable of.
Peter
Justin B. Green
> How about an acronym along the lines of ...
> FAmily STrategy Board And Card games
> = FASTBAC games ?
I like it! Of course, it helps that The Fastbacks happen to be one of my
favorite rock groups...
Glenn Kuntz
David Alex Lamb <dal...@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
news:8s7b5l$g9g$1...@knot.queensu.ca...
> In article <8s79qa$o1u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Bagheera, the jungle scout <bagh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >Intellectual Games
> For the North American public at least, words like "intellectual" or
> "analytic" or perhaps even "duh, you have to use a brain with this game"
might
> be turn-offs; never underestimate the anti-intellectual cultural theme in
both
> Canada and the US. I can't speak for Europe.
>
> "Strategy" is good because it's less threatening. Armchair quarterbacks
are
> willing to think about "strategy".
In my experience with the public, "strategy" is just as threatening and as
much of a turn-off as the others. I know at least one armchair quarterback
whose idea of strategy is figuring out how to make it to both the bathroom
and the fridge during the same commercial break - his solution was to put
one of those cube refrigerators in the bathroom... ;-)
Nick Danger
In an attempt to distance the genre from the likes of games such as
Life, the tag - Player Games.
Games that need to be "played" rather than play themselves. Games
that require more decisions than "Should I take the mountain trail or
the shorter path?" Not quite the connotation that the term Gamer's
Game gets, yet deeper than the popular BS out there.
Tony Nardo
> In article <8s79qa$o1u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Bagheera, the jungle scout <bagh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >Intellectual Games
> For the North American public at least, words like "intellectual" or
> "analytic" or perhaps even "duh, you have to use a brain with this game" might
> be turn-offs; never underestimate the anti-intellectual cultural theme in both
> Canada and the US. I can't speak for Europe.
In that case, since this seems to be the age of the acronym, how about an
anti-anti-intellectual name such as MTBC Games?
(MTBC -> More than Two Brain Cell :-) )
Glenn Kuntz
<dand...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8s7bdm$pjq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> How about Progressive Board Games, or just Progressive Games. Or maybe
> Alternative Games. When people see my game collection and ask where is
> Monopoly or Life, I often tell them that I only have Good Games.
"Progressive" games often refers to games that progress in venue. Play a
game/round at one location, then winners stay put while losers move onto the
next station, as in progressive parties.
"Alternative" sounds rather like the "new games" movement Geenius mentioned.
Michael Urban
>Just the other day I was talking with my brother, the non-gamer, about
>what games he was going to share with his child (who is now 1). He
>replied, "Well, I'm partial to Half Life and Unreal, so I might start
>with those, and maybe Rollercoaster Tycoon to help stimulate his
>creativity."
>
>So I told him that wasn't what I was asking and then showed him my vast
>collection of board games. "No, I was talking about conventional
>social games like boardgames and cardgames."
>
>His response, "You mean B O R E D games. No one plays those things
>anymore."
>
>So the first thing to do is to decimate the stigma of the name board
>with its homonym bored.
>
>
>Intellectual Games
Calling something "Intellectual" is widely considered to
mean "not for me" by many people in the U.S..
>Interactive Games (this may be confused with computer games, but I'm
>not sure)
I agree that this would be a problem. It is not very descriptive,
in any case. What are non-interactive games? History of the World?
Mike
Michael Urban
Mike Mayer <mike...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>Maybe we should relate the new name to something the general public has
>already embraced. How about calling "German games": Multi-user,
>non-electronic computer games programmed with un-artificial intellgence
>played on a horzontal energy-saving screen.
>
>Or Munecgpwuaipoahess for short.
That's the right idea. "Family-friendly third-generation hard-copy
interactive gameware." Throw in a version number or year where needed.
Geenius at Wrok
> Following along the lines of what "Geenius" said about parlor games, how about
> Cafe Games? This name pays homage to the games' roots, and also has a
> New/Neuveau/Euro sound to it.
Suits me fine, since I play them more often at a café than anywhere else.
But do most people do that? I think a lot of people might not feel
comfortable playing games in a public place, and a lot of cafés might not
think that tablefuls of gamers were good for their images. Not that the
one where I play seems to mind.
Geenius at Wrok
> How about an acronym along the lines of ...
> FAmily STrategy Board And Card games
> = FASTBAC games ?
> Although I accept the objections against terms like family, strategy, etc.,
> this would provide a handy abbreviation, and would allow an opportunity to
> explain the games in a way that no single term seems to be capable of.
I don't think this term would ever catch on with the public, but as
newsgroup shorthand it's great.
John Cartmell
<dal...@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote:
> In article <8s79qa$o1u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, Bagheera, the jungle scout
> <bagh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> For the North American public at least, words like "intellectual" or
> "analytic" or perhaps even "duh, you have to use a brain with this game"
> might be turn-offs; never underestimate the anti-intellectual cultural
> theme in both Canada and the US. I can't speak for Europe.
> "Strategy" is good because it's less threatening. Armchair quarterbacks
> are willing to think about "strategy".
Sometimes.
--
Fleur Designs - Manchester UK http://www.cartmell.demon.co.uk
~ designer craft products ~ information products ~ information services ~
~ see our unique modular board games at the:
Cresta Court Hotel, Altrincham on Sunday 22 October 2000 (10am-4pm) ~
and in Acorn User - November 2000
John Cartmell
> > Let's put our heads together and see if we can find something catchy
> > that will stick for this type of gaming.
> I'm partial to "social strategy games".
I've described my games as:
"for kids and intelligent adults" ;-)
> - Peter
Bagheera
>
> > To counter this, I would suggest names like:
> >
> > Intellectual Games
>
except with mensa select and new parents. (parents with young children
want anything that might increase intellegence...)
Actually, I kinda like the idea of Eurogames, but add a twist, like
EurGames (pronounced Your Games)
--
Bagherra <jaebear @ frenzy.com>
http://www.frenzy.com/~jaebear
"There is no spoon."
Bagheera
Designer Games
Engineered Games
SMART Games
Tactical Games
Pop Games (this one is the most likely to stick with the avg consumer)
neXtGen Gamez
Quality Games
richar...@hotmail.com
because Games Magazine uses this name. It means a game requiring some
strategy, with low complexity rules, that a family can huddle around
and play in a few hours. This describes German Games to a T because
that is the target market for these games in Germany. The family part
also lends hints towards the game being fun for non-gamers, and not
having an high military/violent content, which would turn off some
gamers.
Other possible names would be: Parlor Strategy games, and Light
Strategy games.
As shorthand, I call them "German-style Games", because a lot of the
boxes I have of them, have German plastered all over them :-).
- Richard Hutnik
In article <h8vcusotnj557iue3...@4ax.com>,
nickra...@gmx.net wrote:
> All right, a call to action for all board gamers. Here's an excerpt
> from Alan Moon's interview by Stephen Glenn for Funagain Games:
>
> "I wish someone would come up with a name for the type of games we
> love. I've heard lots of horrible names over the last ten years like
> Doily Games and Fluffy Games. I find these insulting as well as
> meaningless. I don't mind the term German Games. But I also don't
> think this is the right name, because it simply doesn't tell you what
> it stands for. I've thought about this a lot, and considered things
> like Modern Games, New Games, Family Strategy Games, etc. Unless
> someone has a better idea, I'd suggest just calling them Board Games."
>
> Let's put our heads together and see if we can find something catchy
> that will stick for this type of gaming. Offer up any suggestions,
> then we can compile them and maybe have an informal vote. Narrow it
> down to the top three or four choices, vote again, and let's start
> using the winning term for awhile and see if it "takes".
>
> I'll start off with a fairly simple one: Nouveau Games
> Meaning a fresh, innovating style of gaming.
>
> Let 'em rip.
>
> --
> - Nick
>
> Eliminate RAP to send me an email
>
--
Visit DocReason's Strategy HQ for free games, reviews, and
support and opponent finding for obscure/orphan games at:
http://www.geocities.com/timessquare/fortress/7537/
Kevin J. Maroney
>simply using "board games," IMO, is overcoming the conventional wisdom
>that board games are for children ... and "adult board games" poses
>obvious ambiguity problems.
I basically agree with Keith here--"family strategy" is the best
descriptive name I've found for this broad category of games.
The other option I like is just coming up with a name. That name
doesn't have to communicate *by itself*, but can be used as an
identifier. For instance, "Fauvist" doesn't really describe the
paintings of the Fauves, but it serves to identify the movement
because once you've learned what is meant by "Fauvism", you can point
to it.
For sentimental reasons, I'd be inclined to call them "Sacksonian",
since Sid did more to create and popularize this category of game than
any other individual except perhaps Alex Randolph. But I'm open to
other non-descriptive labels.
If there were an archetypical game, that would be a good springboard,
but I don't think there is.
"Essen games"? "Poppels"? "Sumos"?
--
Kevin J. Maroney | Unplugged Games | kmar...@ungames.com
Games are my entire waking life
Kevin J. Maroney
>Interactive Games
I would chew off my own arm rather than use either of these terms.
bill...@my-deja.com
people's interest. After all, we are evangelists for the cause are we
not?
Forget about trying to describe what the games are about in a couple of
words. This way you will only end up with something with strategy in
the title, which will kill most conversations stone dead as non-gamers
will suddenly reach into their sub-conscious for images of beards and
acne and recollections of body odour.
I like Jeux Nouveau or something like that. "I'm off for a bit of Jeux
Nouveau" is going to get anybody interested – even if they will be
somewhat disappointed to find that you are referring to games rather
than an exclusive private member's club.
Eurogames, New Wave games... also have the same attraction, although a
little less daring.
But I would prefer to stick to 'German games' if the alternative is
going to be something deathly like 'family strategy'.
All the best
Bill
Dan Becker
>
> Let's put our heads together and see if we can find something catchy
I like "strategy games."
Strategy implies thinking and decision-making (as opposed to a pure
luck driven game such as Lotto).
Game implies rules, leisure, and fun.
I don't like:
German games - they are not all from Germany.
Euro games - they are not all from Europe.
Family games - I don't play them with my family.
Board games - many are played with cards as well.
Progressive - as opposed to what? regressive games?
New, modern, new wave - I don't think these names will last 10 years
Intellectual - sounds like some sort of psychological mind game.
I do like "social" as well. This implies a get-together and conversation
- things that we often do when we game. However, a solitaire game can be
a strategy game but not a social strategy game. So "social" would not
apply to all strategy games.
--
Thanks, Dan
E-mail: beck...@io.com
Web: http://www.io.com/~beckerdo
Glenn Kuntz
It's distinctive enough to identify this relatively new "concept" in games,
yet vague enough so as not to be constrictive, and I can't think of any
turn-off connotations associated with the term (YMMV.)
Kevin J. Maroney <kmar...@ungames.com> wrote in message
news:3gmeuss0avlb57v4p...@4ax.com...
joe willette
So far I like:
1) Social Strategy Games
2) Strategy Boardgames
3) Family Strategy Games (but agree that Family is a bit sketchy)
Joe
Peter Sarrett
Kevin J. Maroney <kmar...@ungames.com> wrote:
>
>For sentimental reasons, I'd be inclined to call them "Sacksonian",
>since Sid did more to create and popularize this category of game than
>any other individual except perhaps Alex Randolph.
Darn, Kevin, you almost made it through this thread without dropping
"Sid"'s name.
Much as I admire Sackson's work, he's done virtually nothing to
popularize this category of game within the current context. Neither has
Alex Randolph. The current conversation stems from the popularity of
recent (90's and later) games from the likes of Klaus Teuber, Reiner
Knizia, and Wolfgang Kramer; Funagain Games' enabling Americans to order
such games easily; and companies like Rio Grande, Mayfair, and others
publishing many of them in English.
In fact, if I had to pick an individual most responsible for popularizing
this category of games, it would be Jay Tummelson.
- Peter
Timothy Jaxon
thinking along. If you want the moniker to stick for any length of time
it has to be set away from the pack.
Here are a few more in this vein:
Mutual Games
Shared Games
Thematic Games
Goal-Driven Games
Family Strategy is good, but also has connotations that you only play
these games within your own family. How about Social Strategy Games?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Timothy Jaxon
Kinhaven Communications
Glenn Kuntz wrote:
>
> How about "concept games"?
>
> It's distinctive enough to identify this relatively new "concept" in games,
> yet vague enough so as not to be constrictive, and I can't think of any
> turn-off connotations associated with the term (YMMV.)
>
> Kevin J. Maroney <kmar...@ungames.com> wrote in message
> news:3gmeuss0avlb57v4p...@4ax.com...
> > Geenius at Wrok <gee...@enteract.com> wrote:
> > >"Family strategy" hits pretty close to the mark for me. The problem with
> > >simply using "board games," IMO, is overcoming the conventional wisdom
> > >that board games are for children ... and "adult board games" poses
> > >obvious ambiguity problems.
> >
> > I basically agree with Keith here--"family strategy" is the best
> > descriptive name I've found for this broad category of games.
> >
> > The other option I like is just coming up with a name. That name
> > doesn't have to communicate *by itself*, but can be used as an
> > identifier. For instance, "Fauvist" doesn't really describe the
> > paintings of the Fauves, but it serves to identify the movement
> > because once you've learned what is meant by "Fauvism", you can point
> > to it.
> >
> > For sentimental reasons, I'd be inclined to call them "Sacksonian",
> > since Sid did more to create and popularize this category of game than
L.Tuxbury
Peter Sarrett wrote:
> In article <3gmeuss0avlb57v4p...@4ax.com>,
> Kevin J. Maroney <kmar...@ungames.com> wrote:
> >
> >For sentimental reasons, I'd be inclined to call them "Sacksonian",
> >since Sid did more to create and popularize this category of game than
> >any other individual except perhaps Alex Randolph.
>
EChoota
words is just too much of a chore to refer to something on a regular basis.
Could always just call it "Social Games". Sure it is kind of confusing but it
seems to be the one dominant theme in why people playing these games get
together. I like it also since it has a subversive quality to it, and I like
to be subversive :) You rope in a bunch of non-gamers thinking they are going
to do some silly party games but instead you get them to play some light, fast
and thoughtful game. Before they can cry foul and ask for Taboo they suddenly
find the tension of decision making actually enjoyable.
"Social Games" fulfills the requirements for the family emphasis without
sounding too wimpy to Gamers. It describes the overal intention of the market
for these games. It has more edge than the dusty old term of parlor games.
And it sounds positive and unthreatening to the non-gamers. "Hey I'm not a
nerd or geek, I'm a SOCIAL GAMER!" ;)
Bob Schwartz
thus far, I like:
Social Stategy Games
Concept Games
Player's Games
Designer Games
Nick Danger wrote:
> Let's put our heads together and see if we can find something catchy
> that will stick for this type of gaming. Offer up any suggestions,
> then we can compile them and maybe have an informal vote. Narrow it
> down to the top three or four choices, vote again, and let's start
> using the winning term for awhile and see if it "takes".
>
> I'll start off with a fairly simple one: Nouveau Games
> Meaning a fresh, innovating style of gaming.
>
> Let 'em rip.
--
Bob Schwartz
http://bgamers.com
Bagheera
pe...@WOLFENET.COM (Peter Sarrett) wrote:
> In article <3gmeuss0avlb57v4p...@4ax.com>,
> Kevin J. Maroney <kmar...@ungames.com> wrote:
> >
> >For sentimental reasons, I'd be inclined to call them "Sacksonian",
> >since Sid did more to create and popularize this category of game
than
> >any other individual except perhaps Alex Randolph.
>
> Darn, Kevin, you almost made it through this thread without dropping
> "Sid"'s name.
>
> Much as I admire Sackson's work, he's done virtually nothing to
> popularize this category of game within the current context. Neither
has
> Alex Randolph.
Acquire, Bazaar, Can't Stop...these came LONG before Siedler und others.
The current conversation stems from the popularity of
> recent (90's and later) games from the likes of Klaus Teuber, Reiner
> Knizia, and Wolfgang Kramer; Funagain Games' enabling Americans to
order
> such games easily; and companies like Rio Grande, Mayfair, and others
> publishing many of them in English.
if you want to be completely correct here,
Boulder Games deserves the lion's share of bringing German games to
American market as they were the first major company to do so.
and companies like Ravensburger and Schmidt have been penetrating
american market with german stock long before mayfair considered it or
rio grande was even a twinkle.
> In fact, if I had to pick an individual most responsible for
popularizing
> this category of games, it would be Jay Tummelson.
I think Sackson deserves the bigger credit here.
He is the Einstein, the Gallileo, the Copernicus, the Curie, the Edison
of gaming. His games span multiple cultures, and almost all of his
games capture the flavor and the feel of this genre we are trying to
describe. There probably isn't a gamer on this planet that hasn't
played at least one of his games at least once. And I would venture to
say that there are few affluent non-gamers who haven't seen or heard of
a sackson game, or played some variant of a sackson design. Sackson
would truly be the Renaissance man of the gaming industry, and I feel
it would do justice to honor him here. I just don't think people would
take to the name very well. It sounds modestly racist(Sackson<=>Saxon).
--
Bagherra <jaebear @ frenzy.com>
http://www.frenzy.com/~jaebear
"There is no spoon."
Paul C Duggan
--
"I am an impure thinker. I am hurt, swayed, shaken, | paul + | +
elated, disillusioned, shocked, comforted, and I | --|--
have to transmit my mental experiences lest I die." | + | +
-- Eugen Rosenstock-Huessy | pdu...@world.std.com
meto...@my-deja.com
Bagheera, the jungle scout <bagh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Designer Games
THAT's the one. Emphasizes the non-generic nature of the games.
Someone actually wants to put their name on the box, because they are
proud of their work. At least in the US, I think this title would
catch on. None of the others stood out for me at all.
Bill Campbell
("Have you seen the new fall look of the Knizia's? The dice-rolling is
so...retro.")
Justin B. Green
My comments:
> Game Noveau
Oo la la! Maybe Essen should be in the third week of November to
coincide with annual Beaujolais Noveau extravaganza.
> Designer Games
With Calvin Klein and Anna Sui as spokespeople!
> Engineered Games
Frankengames!
> SMART Games
this stands for Strategic, Modernly Aesthetic, Really Tactical?
> Tactical Games
sorry, no smartass comment here
> Pop Games (this one is the most likely to stick with the avg consumer)
or pop-o-matic!
> neXtGen Gamez
tres slick, but please no voYaGer gamez
> Quality Games
High Fidelity Games?
Well done! I think we need to vote soon.
jim
Mark J. Edwards
Heeeyyy, I kinda like that one... "Thinking Games".
Of course that'll turn off a lot of folks that don't like to think,
but hey, who needs em? Heheh.
What you gotta do is convince parents that kids should be playing
these "Thinking Games" with their parents as opposed to those "mindless
and violent video games" in solitude and we're off! ;-)
Mark
Bret Smith
> In article <8s7mhf$3m1$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> Bagheera, the jungle scout <bagh...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > Designer Games
>
> THAT's the one. Emphasizes the non-generic nature of the games.
> Someone actually wants to put their name on the box, because they are
> proud of their work. At least in the US, I think this title would
> catch on. None of the others stood out for me at all.
>
> Bill Campbell
> ("Have you seen the new fall look of the Knizia's? The dice-rolling is
> so...retro.")
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
I agree. The only two I like so far are: concept games, and designer
games, with designer games getting the edge.
Bret
Justin B. Green
> I just don't think people would
> take to the name very well. It sounds modestly racist(Sackson<=>Saxon).
Last weekend I introduced Acquire to a couple friends of mine. It was the
Hasbro version, and one of my friends could not get Sackson's name
right: Sackman, Sackville, Sackton. It was driving me CRAZY. (They
liked the game, though.)
Geenius at Wrok
> neXtGen Gamez
I would chew off MY arm rather than use this one.
Bagheera
100...@fulcrum.physbio.mssm.edu>,
"Justin B. Green" <gr...@inka.mssm.edu> wrote:
> Cool list...you wouldn't happen to be an "Indentity Consultant",
Bagherra?
no, but I have been known to practice psychology without a license ;)
> My comments:
> > Designer Games
> With Calvin Klein and Anna Sui as spokespeople!
nah, Sackson, Moon, Kramer and Knizia.
This one is actually the one I'm most partial to right now.
> > Tactical Games
> sorry, no smartass comment here
I don't really like this one, but it is slightly better than
Strategic Games. When I think Strategic games, I think of games like
WiF, Third Reich, and just about any SPI or Avalon Hill wargame. I
just don't think of "German" type games. And Family Strategy doesn't
do it for me either since Risk is technically a family strategy game
and I certainly wouldn't lump it in with the new "German" style games.
> > Pop Games (this one is the most likely to stick with the avg
consumer)
> or pop-o-matic!
uh, no. Like Pop music, only Pop games (short for popular, since
German type games happen to be popular right now)
> > neXtGen Gamez
> tres slick, but please no voYaGer gamez
actually the "..X.Gen" is an overused term right now, but I figured it
would slide in well with many other things of similar monocher(sp?)
currently being tossed around
--
Bagherra <jaebear @ frenzy.com>
http://www.frenzy.com/~jaebear
"There is no spoon."
R. Hoekstra
> love. I've heard lots of horrible names over the last ten years like
> Doily Games and Fluffy Games. I find these insulting as well as
> meaningless. I don't mind the term German Games. But I also don't
> think this is the right name, because it simply doesn't tell you what
> it stands for. I've thought about this a lot, and considered things
> like Modern Games, New Games, Family Strategy Games, etc. Unless
> someone has a better idea, I'd suggest just calling them Board Games."
>
What about UNPLUGGED GAMES ?
Ronald Hoekstra
Kevin J. Maroney
>Darn, Kevin, you almost made it through this thread without dropping
>"Sid"'s name.
I don't see why I should have avoided it.
>Much as I admire Sackson's work, he's done virtually nothing to
>popularize this category of game within the current context. Neither has
>Alex Randolph.
Well, other than creating a wide body of games which were incredibly
influential on the current generation of game designers and
publishers. The "German renaissance" of gaming didn't spring
Athena-like out of nothing in 1994; it traces its decent solidly back
to the 3M games and the trickle of games for adults published by
companies like Parker Brothers--most of which were by either Sackson
or Randolph. This is not a secret. Every German publisher of any note
has published games by Sackson and Randolph.
>The current conversation stems from the popularity of
>recent (90's and later) games from the likes of Klaus Teuber, Reiner
>Knizia, and Wolfgang Kramer;
All of whom point to Sackson and Randolph as their major inspirations.
>Funagain Games' enabling Americans to order
>such games easily; and companies like Rio Grande, Mayfair, and others
>publishing many of them in English.
Well, now, that's an incredibly parochial view of the field. Funagain,
Rio Grande, and Mayfair had nothing whatsoever to do with _Siedlers_
selling 3 million copies.
Actually, the single greatest influence on this particular wave of
games is the Spiel des Jahres award itself. The award helped
concentrate the attention of the German public on board games which
lead to a positive feedback loop of quality and sales.
Kevin J. Maroney
>I'm partial to "social strategy games".
I think I like that better than "family strategy" games, even though I
share some of David Desjardins's reservations about how people here
use the word "social" as a bludgeon.
Matthew Hubbard
>
> whatever it ends up being I'd imagine it would have to a two word
> title. Three words is just too much of a chore to refer to something
> on a regular basis.
>
> Gamers. It describes the overal intention of the market for these
> games. It has more edge than the dusty old term of parlor games.
> And it sounds positive and unthreatening to the non-gamers. "Hey I'm
> not a nerd or geek, I'm a SOCIAL GAMER!" ;)
And I'm not a drunk or a rummy; I'm a social drinker.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it,
MattH
Mike Bialecki
:*> My comments:
:*> > Designer Games
:*> With Calvin Klein and Anna Sui as spokespeople!
:*
:*nah, Sackson, Moon, Kramer and Knizia.
:*This one is actually the one I'm most partial to right now.
In case somebody is actually going through this thread and tallying up
votes, put me down in full favor of "Designer Games". It's simple and
focuses on one of the major differences between german-style games and
games like Monopoly; that is, in "designer games" the game designer's name
is generally published where everybody can see it on the box. Also, think
of the similarities between the fasion industry and the "designer game"
industry:
"All the greats of the industry are going to be at Essen this year,
Knizia, Kramer, Moon. Critics and enthusiasts are all waiting for the
unveiling of Kramer's newest creation, JAVA. Will he be able to win a
3rd "Spiel Des Jahres" victory? And what can we expect for some of these
up-and-coming designers......"
You can almost substitute Knizia, Kramer and Moon with Calvin Klein and
some other fasion industry big-wigs that I know nothing about and the
paragraph would still make sense.
yep, "Designer Games" is my vote.
--
-Mike
"It's one thing when your hobbies interfere with your work, but when your
hobbies interfere with your hobbies..."
Geenius at Wrok
> pe...@WOLFENET.COM (Peter Sarrett) wrote:
>
> >Funagain Games' enabling Americans to order
> >such games easily; and companies like Rio Grande, Mayfair, and others
> >publishing many of them in English.
>
> Well, now, that's an incredibly parochial view of the field. Funagain,
> Rio Grande, and Mayfair had nothing whatsoever to do with _Siedlers_
> selling 3 million copies.
But they had everything to do with opening the gates to the U.S. market
for Settlers and its successors. Sure, copies were being sold here, but
they were squeezing through the tiny, poorly lit service entrance in back.
FASTBAC games ;-) may not be exactly mainstream yet, but neither are they
known only to a handful of geographically lucky cognoscenti, as they were
less than 10 years ago. Aside from Cosmic Encounter, Acquire and a
handful of other domestically produced titles, this genre basically didn't
exist in the American consciousness until the 1996 Origins convention,
when Settlers stole the show from Magic: The Gathering.
The Maverick
>
> > I'm partial to "social strategy games".
>
But not all that great for promotional purposes. It sounds more like a
project you'd do for a college sociology class than a fun pastime...
;-)
the Mav
--
"Never give up -- never surrender!" Commander Peter Quincy Taggart
The Maverick
>
> Munecgpwuaipoahess
Gesundheit!
The Maverick
>
> I use "Eurogames" and I know I got the word from someone who posts here.
Perhaps from the name of the company? ;-) This seems a bit confusing,
sort of like if someone in the early sixties decided all wargames should
be called "Avalon Hill Games."
the Mav
David desJardins
> The point is, whatever I say, I have to explain to people what they
> are, usually by saying what they are not. It goes something
> like "They're not like Monopoly, ...
But they are.
> you don't roll the dice, move round the track, draw Chance cards etc.
But you do. These are all typical elements of "German games". Monopoly
has virtually the same elements as "German games" like Die Siedler: you
roll dice, randomly receive resources, trade those resources with other
players, use resources to build stuff that increases your income, etc.
The difference between these games might be that you like Die Siedler
more than Monopoly. But they are clearly the same sort of game.
David desJardins
The Maverick
>
> > > Tactical Games
> > sorry, no smartass comment here
>
> I don't really like this one, but it is slightly better than
> Strategic Games. When I think Strategic games, I think of games like
> WiF, Third Reich, and just about any SPI or Avalon Hill wargame.
A decent percentage of which are, in fact, "tactical games" (i.e.
PanzerBlitz, Squad Leader, Sniper!, etc., etc.) This would seem to
cause more confusion than it would solve. ;-)
The Maverick
>
> > Designer Games
>
> THAT's the one. Emphasizes the non-generic nature of the games.
> Someone actually wants to put their name on the box, because they are
> proud of their work.
Your assumption that unnamed designers are not proud of their efforts is
unwarranted. For detailed rants on the "unnamed designer" subject,
search dejanews for the threads regarding the U.S. industry practice of
not crediting designer names (or search the web for Costikyan's article
on the subject.)
The Maverick
>
> What about UNPLUGGED GAMES ?
I think Ronald is on to something. In a similar vein (though more
wordy), how about: Face to Face Tabletop Games?
Nick Danger
counting.
--
- Nick
Eliminate RAP to send me an email
Geenius at Wrok
> It's true that, taken literally, Abalone is a "modern strategy game",
> but it's more precisely described as an "abstract board game" or
> "abstract strategy game". Remember that a name doesn't have to be a
> definition--otherwise trains, airplanes, helicopters, and motorcycles
> would all be "automobiles".
Third Reich et al. are also modern strategy games yet clearly belong to a
different genre. This is why "social strategy games" is superior, IMO.
Geenius at Wrok
> By the way, can anybody get the explanation speech down to say 20
> words in colloquial English?
Leave it to an editor:
"They're high-quality games that involve more decision-making than
ordinary board games but also emphasize cooperation, involvement and fun."
And that's counting the hyphenated compounds as two words apiece. ;-)
Geenius at Wrok
> Geenius at Wrok wrote:
>
> > > I'm partial to "social strategy games".
> >
> > Hey, this one's not bad.
>
> But not all that great for promotional purposes. It sounds more like a
> project you'd do for a college sociology class than a fun pastime...
I minored in soc. To me it WAS fun. :-D
Geenius at Wrok
> Keep the suggestions coming, I'm compiling as we speak! 40 and
> counting.
When we finally get around to voting, I think some kind of instant-runoff
system would be good. In other words, people pick their first choices,
second choices, third choices and so on. Once you tally up all the first
choices, if none of them has a majority, then take the one that got the
fewest votes and substitute the second-choice votes from those ballots.
If no option has a majority after that, take the the one with the fewest
votes and substitute the next (second- or third-choice) votes from those
ballots. Keep doing this until one term attains a majority.
Out of 40 or 50 terms, I'm willing to bet that six top choices should be
enough to guarantee an eventual majority for one term. Lots of them
aren't going to get any votes at all.
Don Hessong
The term crafted can apply to the typically high-quality physical
componants, as well as the quality of the design of the rules mechanisms.
One thing about the games of this genre is their elegance. Perhaps "Crafted
Games" conveys this.
Or how about "Urbane Games"? (not urban)
Of the suggestions given thus far, I like the following (in order of
preference).
Concept Games (or would "Conceptual Games" be even better?)
and
Continental Games
I agree with the people who say to stay away from certain specific words
which have different conotations for different people or are too limiting,
such as "Family", "Social", or "Strategy" (even though I particularly like
the conotation that the word strategy has for me).
I could almost go for "Designer Games", BUT it has a modern conotation that
I think can detract from the flavor of games which are based on a historical
or otherwise worldly theme, such as Settlers (which I haven't played, but
seems like a good example).
Don
Elliot Wilen
generic-sounding, and inaccurate in the use of "board". "Family
Strategy Games" is also inaccurate.
Most other suggestions strike me as smacking of elitism ("Intellectual
Games"--really!), being too cute by half ("Nouveaux Games"), or likely
to turn people off ("Alternative Games", "Progressive Games").
My suggestion is "Modern Strategy Games". "Modern" distinguishes them
from classics like Chess, Go, Bridge, Backgammon, etc. "Strategy"
emphasizes the fact that meaningful decisions are made. I understand
where Bagheera is coming from when he complains that it reminds him of
wargames, but to the general public, wargaming is so obscure that
confusion is unlikely, and wargamers themselves seem to prefer
"wargame" or "con(flict) sim(ulation)" these days.
It's true that, taken literally, Abalone is a "modern strategy game",
but it's more precisely described as an "abstract board game" or
"abstract strategy game". Remember that a name doesn't have to be a
definition--otherwise trains, airplanes, helicopters, and motorcycles
would all be "automobiles".
--Elliot Wilen
--
Unless replying, please include the word "rabbit" in the subject line
when sending me email.
Want to ban junk email? Visit http://www.cauce.org/
EYE of NiGHT
<nickra...@gmx.net> wrote:
>All right, a call to action for all board gamers. Here's an excerpt
>from Alan Moon's interview by Stephen Glenn for Funagain Games:
>
Having arrived late to this thread, I say German Games. I know they
are not all German, but I think there is sufficient difference between
American style games and German style games even in our experience for
there to be a difference (if that makes any sense).
The point is, whatever I say, I have to explain to people what they
are, usually by saying what they are not. It goes something
like"They're not like Monoploy, you don't roll the dice, move round
the track, draw Chance cards etc. They are more likely to be driven by
cards or by laying tiles. They are generally positive and
constructive." You all know the speech.
I suspect that whatever phrase we come up with, people still think
board games are Monopoly. It so soaks their concept, and poisons their
experience, it just turns them right off. By saying German games, it
gives them (my audience) a strange hook to the idea so I can get all
the above across. It makes them sound sufficently unusual, they stop
to listen.
It has been said before, but I think the positive,constructive aspect
is much more important than the strategy element. I emphasise the lack
of dice rolling and stress the positive points accumulating.
I like smart games, or smarter games, over Intellectual. And yes,
Brits hate intellectuals too.
I also like Thematic Games, as opposed to Abstract Games.
But I am going to stick to German Games. And given Alan Moon's success
with Amigo, I am surprised he only "doesn't mind" 'German games'.
Robin King
wrote in message news:8s7rgj$882$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> I think Sackson deserves the bigger credit here.
> He is the Einstein, the Gallileo, the Copernicus, the Curie, the
Edison
> of gaming. His games span multiple cultures, and almost all of his
> games capture the flavor and the feel of this genre we are trying to
> describe. There probably isn't a gamer on this planet that hasn't
> played at least one of his games at least once. And I would venture
to
> say that there are few affluent non-gamers who haven't seen or heard
of
> a sackson game, or played some variant of a sackson design. Sackson
> would truly be the Renaissance man of the gaming industry, and I
feel
> it would do justice to honor him here. I just don't think people
would
> take to the name very well. It sounds modestly
racist(Sackson<=>Saxon).
>
> Bagherra <jaebear @ frenzy.com>
I agree with "Sacksonian". Sid Sackson has inspired game
players and
game inventors all over the world. It isn't his fault that German
companies have
been more avid buyers of his creations than American companies.
Thanks for the idea, Kevin.
Robin
Pat Brennan
> counting.
Nick, add me as a fan of Designer Games. It has that enticing edgy elitism
that sets these apart from the old schlock. I like it over my second choices
of Social (/ Family) Strategy Games, first because its 2 words, not 3, and
secondly because a lot of games in this category are more tactics or luck
than strategy anyway. Designer Games cover both. It also overcomes the
German / Euro thing and so is inclusive of any just as good American games.
Re suggestions that it be named after Sackson or other American contributors
to the hobby, please, a little less American insularity guys.
Cheers
Patrick
zo...@world.std.com
Chris Lohroff
games, they initially think Monopoly, etc. I then say I play the games
you don't find at Toys R Us. The games I play are sold in hobby
shops. So... how about
Hobby Games
I like it because it distinguishes them from "other" games in this
way. Most people think of board games as something you do when you get
together with people, but it's a something to do because we want to
socialize. That's why I think of "other" games a social games. The
people in this group get together for the express purpose of playing
the games. It's our hobby, therefore Hobby Games is my suggestion,
until it gets shot down at least, then I'll have to say I heard it from
someone else.
--
Chris Lohroff
http://www.fairplaygames.com
AllenDoum
but it does sound snobish.
As long as the name puts distance between these game and "beer and pretzels" I
will be happy.
Scott J Di Bartolo
Nick Danger wrote:
> <SNIP>
> I'll start off with a fairly simple one: Nouveau Games
> Meaning a fresh, innovating style of gaming.
>
> Let 'em rip.
>
>
Scott let's em rip....
Gamer's Games
Game Players Games
Games for the Rest of Us
Intriguing Games
Games with an Edge
Entertainment Gaming/Games (E.G.)
Modern Games
Superior Games
Playable Games
ummmm....thats it for now...
Scott Di Bartolo
--
Stop by and check out our Man O War Community at YAHOO!.com - a place for
all
MOW admirals to gather and discuss GW's best game. Now over 50 Members
strong!
We have new ships and rules for you to try out, and plenty of links and
Photos too.
We are at:
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/theseaofclaws
We have moved from our site at DEJA.com, please stop in to see what's new.
Mike Schneider'
<Pine.SGI.4.20.001013...@fulcrum.physbio.mssm.edu>,
"Justin B. Green" <gr...@inka.mssm.edu> wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Nick Danger wrote:
>
> > Let's put our heads together and see if we can find something catchy
> > that will stick for this type of gaming.
>
> I use "Eurogames" and I know I got the word from someone who posts here.
> The description is lacking and a bit inaccurate, but it IS catchy and
> people invariably know what you're talking about when you use it. They
> know it doesn't exclude designers like Moon, Sackson, and Borg.
So far, "eurogame" is the only term I could see myself using instead of
"german game". The rest simply lack cachet: "Designer game" means about as
much to me as "designer clothes", and "strategy" scares off non-gamers
who'd otherwise have no problems with, say, pastel camels and whatnot.
Mike Schneider, VRWC Sentinel Outpost. "Autoguns, on-line!" +--+--+--+
Reply to mike1@@@winternet.com sans two @@, or your reply won't reach me.
Ralph Nader is a communist: http://www.greenparty.org/Platform.html
Christopher Dearlove
<nickra...@gmx.net> writes
>Keep the suggestions coming, I'm compiling as we speak! 40 and
>counting.
Having seen a whole lot of suggestions, none of which I would find
helpful, how about just "games". You are going to have to explain
what sort of games anyway, with more than one word, so why start with
a barrier word like "social", "tactical", "German" (although that's
not as bad as it gets some interest) or whatever. In the context of,
for example, a games club it doesn't hurt to use the all-inclusive
name because if the people turn out to have other interests (e.g.
RPGs, traditional wargames) they may get interested in what you have
to offer anyway - or you in what they do (the sorts of games we discuss
here are my main preference, but far from only - which I suspect is a
common position).
--
Christopher Dearlove
bruno faidutti
including highly plugged ones, have designers.
--
Bruno Faidutti
Games and Unicorns
9 bis rue Alphonse Daudet
30133 LES ANGLES - FRANCE
http://faidutti.free.fr
faid...@free.fr
John Cartmell
<DonHe...@Rockford.com> wrote:
> How about "Crafted Games"?
> The term crafted can apply to the typically high-quality physical
> componants, as well as the quality of the design of the rules
> mechanisms. One thing about the games of this genre is their elegance.
> Perhaps "Crafted Games" conveys this.
I use the word Designer (discussed elsewhere and below) to indicate that my
games can be modified on an individual basis (eg change fabric backing,
colour of board or counters or add names or logos) and the word Craft to
indicate that each board is hand-made.
Clearly this is not the case with the majority of commercial games and
those indicator names (I use a link of Designer and Bespoke because the
former is more modern and the latter more descriptive!) state what is
unique about the games I produce.
I'm fascinated by this thread as it's mirroring exactly the same problems
that I've encountered in attempting to distinguish between what I sell and
what 'games' now means to most people - computer games; it's not helped by
the fact that most of my links are within a specific computer 'community'
and I have to keep emphasising 'board' whilst wishing for an alternative
description.
--
Fleur Designs - Manchester UK http://www.cartmell.demon.co.uk
~ designer craft products ~ information products ~ information services ~
~ see our unique modular board games at the:
Cresta Court Hotel, Altrincham on Sunday 22 October 2000 (10am-4pm) ~
and in Acorn User - November 2000
Justin B. Green
> Justin B. Green wrote:
> >
> > I use "Eurogames" and I know I got the word from someone who posts here.
>
> Perhaps from the name of the company? ;-) This seems a bit confusing,
> sort of like if someone in the early sixties decided all wargames should
> be called "Avalon Hill Games."
More like calling in-line skates 'rollerblades'. I _think_ the general
term came before the company. However, I easily could be wrong. If
dejanews worked properly AND if I knew when Eurogames started (perhaps
it's quite old), I could find out. Perhaps the folks that distribute
Eurogames could prove me right or wrong. Anyway, the company picked a
good name and it happens to be the term I use for the genre.
By the way, Mr. Mav, don't you hate these types of games (or at least the
hoopla that surrounds them). Shooting down other's suggestions is child's
play (there's a reason a name hasn't stuck already). C'mon, be creative,
I wanna hear some nasty appellations. I'll get you started...how about
TENG (The Emperor's New Games).
Justin B. Green
group, I got an email from the designer: Bill Sabram. He IS proud of his
game as well he should be. And of course, the developer(s), artist(s),
playtesters, etc., should all be credited too. I wonder if Mr. Borg is in
a position to tell us whether he had to fight to get his name in the
Battle Cry rules. Perhaps Hasbro/Avalon Hill has a new policy that hasn't
leaked to the rest of the company. Hopefully, they'll realize that it
actually makes good business sense to hype up a designer's name.
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, The Maverick wrote:
Justin B. Green
> In article <Pine.SGI.4.20.0010131614140.495811-
> 100...@fulcrum.physbio.mssm.edu>,
> "Justin B. Green" <gr...@inka.mssm.edu> wrote:
>
> > > Pop Games (this one is the most likely to stick with the avg
> consumer)
> > or pop-o-matic!
>
> uh, no. Like Pop music, only Pop games (short for popular, since
> German type games happen to be popular right now)
Actually, 'Pop Games' might be best for us Spielfreaks (as opposed to the
unwashed hordes). After all, we're the ones that consume this stuff like
it was pop music, have top ten lists, multitudinous reviews, and awards
ceremonies. And many times I look at my shelf of games and have the same
feeling that I have when I look at my CD collection : "WHAT possessed me
to buy THAT one?!?" I should start a new 'list' thread: "What are your
Shania Twain games?"
bill...@my-deja.com
> > are, usually by saying what they are not. It goes something
>
> But they are.
>
etc.
>
Monopoly
> has virtually the same elements as "German games" like Die Siedler:
you
> roll dice, randomly receive resources, trade those resources with
other
> players, use resources to build stuff that increases your income, etc.
>
> The difference between these games might be that you like Die Siedler
> more than Monopoly. But they are clearly the same sort of game.
>
> David desJardins
Perhaps Die Siedler is not a typical 'German' game. After all, it is
the die rolling for production which attracts most of the game's
critics (and I am one of them).