Dou Shou Qi / Animal Chess / Jungle Chess
Pwee Keng Ho
Jungle Chess)?
I would also be interested in hearing from those who may have played the
game as a child what order they remember the animals came in (e.g. Elephant
beats Lion beats ... ... Cat beats Mouse).
Any information would be appreciated.
Regards,
Keng Ho
RRI1
>Chess (sometimes called Jungle Chess)?
Checking Bell and Parlett, neither has any information as to the origins
and development of this game, except to suggest it is a derivative
of Chinese Chese and, since it plays well, suggests a significant
period of development.
Both speculate the game is a simplication of Chinese Chess, akin to
how Checkers developed from Chess.
>I would also be interested in hearing from those who may have played the
>game as a child what order they remember the animals came in (e.g. Elephant
>beats Lion beats ... ... Cat beats Mouse).
8 - Elephant
7 - Lion (may jump over river, but not over mouse)
6 - Tiger (May jump over river, but not over mouse)
5 - Panter
4 - wolf
3 - dog
2 - cat
1 - mouse*
* Mouse captures elephant
In all cases, if a piece is in a trap, it may be captured by any opposing
animal.
Mice also can move into the river, but they cannot capture an opposing elephant
while moving from the river. They cannot be captured while in the river.
>Any information would be appreciated.
Parlett mentions a modern variant, "The Business Jungle", where the ranks are:
office boy, trainee, clerk, salesman, executive, director, managing director,
chairman.
Can a "Dilbert" version be far behind?
Richard Irving rr...@aol.com
Made with recycled electrons!
s.pauchon
Pwee Keng Ho a *crit :
A friend brought me a couple of sets straight back from China this summer and
here are some excerpts of the rules :
"The general hierarchyof the animals is in the order of elephants, lions,
tigers, leopards, dogs, wolves, cats and rats, i.e. the elephants kill the
lions, tigers..., the tigers kill the leopards and dogs... and so on.
(Exceptions are explained later)."
" Rats kill the Elephants despite the hierarchy."
"When two animals of the same kind encounter, the one that has been in the
position since the last move may kill the approaching one." (in other words,
the attacker wins)
"Rules of killing in a trap. When an animal of party A gets into a trap of
party B, any animal of party B may kill the trapped animal as long as it is
next to the trap nonwithstanding its position in the hierarchy"
seb
----------------------------------------
le billard.ch
guide complet du billard américain
sebastien pauchon, auteur
rue du college 14
CH - 1800 vevey
++41 21 922 27 09
http://www.lebillard.ch
Pwee Keng Ho
I have previously read David Parlett's comments and don't see what evidence
there is that Animal Chess is a derivative of Chinese Chess. In these
sources, the use of the name Jungle Chess or the Jungle Game is a misnomer,
possibly based on a Waddington's version called 'Jungle King'. The
translation of Dou Shou Qi (and not Shou Dou Qi as it is called in
www.chessvariants.com) literally means Fighting Animals Chess. Furthermore,
Chinese sets with an English translation of the name reflect it as Animal
Chess.
I am very interested to hear why you list the wolf as being stronger than
the dog. Was that how you were taught the game or did you read some rules
that listed it so?
I learnt to play the game as a child with that order (wolf beats dog) and
was surprised when I was older and read the Chinese rules to find that dog
supposedly beats the wolf (some fierce dogs they must have in China). My own
theory on that, which I am trying to research, is that there may have been
some misprint of the rules in an early set of the rules that was
subsequently perpetuated in other copies of the game. Indeed, the starting
arrangement of the animals is more symmetrical if the order were wolf beats
dog.
I'd be interested to hear from any other newsgroup readers about the order
they learnt.
Regards,
Keng Ho
"RRI1" <rr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031005133539...@mb-m06.aol.com...
Pwee Keng Ho
From the text you have provided, I would say that the translations you have
provided are from the generic rules that seems to come with most sets. (Have
a look at my comments in my response to Richard's (RR11) post)
Regards,
Keng Ho
"s.pauchon" <s.pa...@lebillard.ch> wrote in message
news:3F805F18...@lebillard.ch...
RRI1
>I have previously read David Parlett's comments and don't see
>what evidence there is that Animal Chess is a derivative of
>Chinese Chess.
I think the most obvious point of similarity between the den in the Jungle Game
and palace in Chinese Chess.
> In these sources, the use of the name Jungle Chess or the
> Jungle Game is a misnomer, possibly based on a
> Waddington's version called 'Jungle King'. The
> translation of Dou Shou Qi (and not Shou Dou Qi as it is
> called in www.chessvariants.com) literally means Fighting
> Animals Chess. Furthermore, Chinese sets with an English
> translation of the name reflect it as Animal Chess.
Sometimes a name of game will change as it is translated into different
languages. (Just to pick a modern example, the German game Pfeffersacke which
literally means "bag of pepper" was relesed in the US as Medieval Merchant.)
Or the game in the US is called Checkers, is called Draughts in England, and
Dames (which literally translates as "Queens"--the name of the promoted
pieces.) in French. (Since, a promoted piece in English is called a "King",
obviously some sort of sex change went on as the game crossed the channel. ;-)
The game Dou Shou Qi is best known, in English, as the Jungle Game.
> I am very interested to hear why you list the wolf as being
> stronger than the dog. Was that how you were taught the
> game or did you read some rules that listed it so?
That was how Parlett listed the rankings of the pieces.
> I learnt to play the game as a child with that order (wolf beats > dog) and
was surprised when I was older and read the
> Chinese rules to find that dog supposedly beats the wolf
> (some fierce dogs they must have in China). My own
> theory on that, which I am trying to research, is that there
> may have been some misprint of the rules in an early set of
> the rules that was subsequently perpetuated in other copies
> of the game. Indeed, the starting arrangement of the animals
> is more symmetrical if the order were wolf beats dog.
It is also possible that the change occurred when the game was learned by
non-Chinese. I don't know why the dog would be logically be stronger than the
wolf, most Westerners would think the wolf as the more fierce of these
creatures.
OTOH, the pieces could simply numbered. This would introduce no change in
play, but would clarify the ranking of the pieces. (In Stratego and L'Attaque,
games that are somewhat similar to the Jungle Game, use numbers to indicate the
pieces ranks.)
Michael Abramowski
>
> Sometimes a name of game will change as it is translated into different
> languages. (Just to pick a modern example, the German game Pfeffersacke which
> literally means "bag of pepper" was relesed in the US as Medieval Merchant.)
This translation is not as far off as one may think at first glance.
"Pepperbag" (not paperback) used to be the slang word for "the Hanseatic
merchant, wo always lusts for business and achieved a certain status".
According to http://www.roteswinterhude.de/pfeffer.htm, this derogative
seems to be typically for Hamburg. And I believe this expression is
probably not even widely known outside northern Germany.
I would think that due to the translator probably not finding an
equivalent slang word for such an old-time businessman, "Medieval
merchant" was probably chosen as closest translation.
Regards,
Michael
Anthony Simons
<snip>
>
> OTOH, the pieces could simply numbered. This would introduce no change in
> play, but would clarify the ranking of the pieces. (In Stratego and L'Attaque,
> games that are somewhat similar to the Jungle Game, use numbers to indicate the
> pieces ranks.)
> Richard Irving rr...@aol.com
> Made with recycled electrons!
Another very informative post; thank you.
I would be interested, Richard, if you know if L'Attaque predates
Jungle; I have always thought that Jungle was based on L'Attaque but
have never found anything to support this other than speculation.
Pwee Keng Ho
evidence of derivation.
As to the name of the game in English, if you were to ask English-speaking
people in this part of the world who had played the game when they were
children, they would identify it as 'Animal Chess' in English. Nobody here
would recognise 'Jungle Game' as describing Animal Chess.
.
"RRI1" <rr...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20031007003027...@mb-m03.aol.com...
Paul Franzosa
ken...@singmail.com wrote on 10/5/03 9:13 AM:
I've read about this game before and while I was in China a few years ago
and looked for it in the shops but could not find a copy. Does anyone know
where one can find a version here in the US?
-->Paul
Pwee Keng Ho
shops. They belong to this genre of small, portable Chinese games, usually
with folded paper boards and wooden pieces, that are almost de rigeur for
Chinese stationery shops to stock. Other games in this genre include Chinese
Chess, Chess (often in a 2-in-1 set with Chess pieces on one side and
Chinese Chess pieces on the other), Army Chess, Tri-service Chess, Aeroplane
chess (the Chinese version of Ludo), and various
roll-the-dice-move-your-piece-home games.
I'd be more than happy to send you a set of Animal Chess in return for a
pack of cards or a couple of dice from your country (I collect playing cards
and dice).
Regards,
Keng Ho
"Paul Franzosa" <zo...@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:BBA97D70.2BDAC%zo...@ieee.org...
J.W.Bouman
He states that no information is available about the history. My other game
books state the same. Except that it is a development from chinese chess.
If you like the game, there are some nice computer versions, the one I have
is pretty good.
j.w.b.
"Pwee Keng Ho" <ken...@singmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:blp4a8$ach$2...@reader01.singnet.com.sg...
David J Bush
|He states that no information is available about the history. My other game
|books state the same. Except that it is a development from chinese chess.
According to R.C. Bell, Dog 4 beats Wolf 3. But I had later heard from
several people in Asia that it's the other way around. Sorry I don't
remember their names or emails.