SCRABBLE -- is frisbee a word?
cath...@gmail.com
a trademarked name, but it's also become well-integrated into everyday
language. As a matter of fact, I know of no other word for frisbee.
(Kleenex, for example, can also be called "tissues"...but frisbee?)
There is even a sport -- ultimate frisbee!
So what do you guys think?
David J. Braunegg
popular flying disc..."
The generic term for Frisbee is "flying disc", just as the generic word for
Kleenex is "facial tissue".
I'd call it a proper noun and disallow it.
Dave
<cath...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1151612091....@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Christopher Dearlove
cath...@gmail.com writes
>As a matter of fact, I know of no other word for frisbee.
A colleague who played ultimate frisbee told me that the organisation
which runs the sport was called the "flying disc" (or maybe "flying
disk")
association. Or at least that's what I recall, it was rather a few years
ago.
--
Christopher Dearlove
Mary K. Kuhner
Christopher Dearlove <ch...@mnemosyne.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>A colleague who played ultimate frisbee told me that the organisation
>which runs the sport was called the "flying disc" (or maybe "flying
>disk")
>association. Or at least that's what I recall, it was rather a few years
>ago.
The local groups seem to call the sport "ultimate." It sounds
funny but avoids the whole issue.
Mary Kuhner mkku...@eskimo.com
Steffan O'Sullivan
It's not a word - at least not in the 3rd edition official players'
dictionary. I don't have the 4th, but I doubt it's in there -
technically, it's capitalized and so shouldn't count.
If you're not in tournament play, most people just agree on a
dictionary to hand and limit themselves to the words in that book.
I doubt it's in any dictionary, but who knows? I certainly don't
read them all!
--
-Steffan O'Sullivan |
s...@panix.com | "Men nowhere, but real boys at Sparta."
Plymouth, NH, USA |
www.panix.com/~sos | -Diogenes of Sinope
Ewan McNay
David J. Braunegg wrote:
> From http://www.frisbeedisc.com/products/: "...FRISBEE®, the world's most
> popular flying disc..."
>
> The generic term for Frisbee is "flying disc", just as the generic word for
> Kleenex is "facial tissue".
>
> I'd call it a proper noun and disallow it.
Which is in line w/ tournament word lists.
[After all, Hasbro/Spear do not want 'scrabble' to become a generic noun,
either!]
Christopher Dearlove
<Ewan....@yale.edu> writes
>[After all, Hasbro/Spear do not want 'scrabble' to become a generic
>noun, either!]
(I think Spears are now owned by Hasbro, reunifying the brand, ditto
Waddingtons and Monopoly - and I guess Cluedo and Clue, but that's
the other way round.)
It's already a generic verb, so who needs it?
Surprising words can be proper nouns. I remember a word game (not
scrabble) where a round was won by challenging stetson - it should
be Stetson he said and our dictionary agreed.
--
Christopher Dearlove
Graeme Thomas
Dearlove <ch...@mnemosyne.demon.co.uk> writes
>In message <e81c2o$r9d$1...@news.wss.yale.edu>, Ewan McNay
><Ewan....@yale.edu> writes
>>[After all, Hasbro/Spear do not want 'scrabble' to become a generic
>>noun, either!]
>
>(I think Spears are now owned by Hasbro, reunifying the brand, ditto
>Waddingtons and Monopoly - and I guess Cluedo and Clue, but that's
>the other way round.)
No.
A few years ago (about a decade) Spear was bought by Mattel, thus
continuing the disunity of the brand.
Hasbro (through Milton Bradley) own the rights to Scrabble (which they
insist is the SCRABBLE(R) Brand Crossword Game) in the USA and Canada.
Mattel own the rights in the rest of the world.
See <http://www.teleport.com/~stevena/scrabble/faq.html> for the latest
details.
--
Graeme Thomas
Ophidian
> From http://www.frisbeedisc.com/products/: "...FRISBEE®, the world's most
> popular flying disc..."
>
> The generic term for Frisbee is "flying disc",
Originally it was "pie pan". ;)
--
Perhaps the greatest evil of the American people is apathy!
But who cares?
Jason Maxwell
news:yMfGdcRI...@mnemosyne.demon.co.uk...
Jason
David Parlett
>a trademarked name, but it's also become well-integrated into everyday
>language.
Everyone seems to agree that frisbee isn't acceptable, but I want to
argue a contrary view.
The fact that Cathy writes frisbee without a capital and that everybody
knows what it means without her having to define it demonstrates that it
has become a de facto generic and should therefore be acceptable. There
may be more technically accurate terms for it, like flying disc or
whatever, but in real life people are always going to use the shortest
word that is readily understandable. It is for dictionaries and
wordlists to follow the spoken language, not vice versa.
In my circle of word-gamers, the rule we follow about disputed words is
that if one opponent of the user deems it acceptable, then it is
acceptable. I've no doubt my fellow players would all accept frisbee.
I realise that this method is impractical for tournament play and that
the criterion there must be whether or not it appears in an official
wordlist, but can only regard that as a necessary evil.
The capital initial criterion also gives rise to some logical anomalies.
For example, no one would accept, say, "Ghana" as a generic, as it is
the unique name of a specific country and is therefore capitalized. On
the other hand, we also designate an inhabitant of Ghana a Ghanaian,
also spelt with a capital - but why should this be so? There are many
Ghanaians, all having in common the definition that they are natives or
nationals of Ghana. It is therefore by definition a generic and not a
specific, and in my view ought to be allowed.
--
David Parlett
For books and games visit http://www.davidparlett.co.uk
Darin McGrew
> Everyone seems to agree that frisbee isn't acceptable, but I want to
> argue a contrary view.
>
> The fact that Cathy writes frisbee without a capital and that everybody
> knows what it means without her having to define it demonstrates that it
> has become a de facto generic and should therefore be acceptable.
The fact that "Frisbee" is in my big unabridged dictionary but "frisbee" is
not makes it unacceptable in my games. It sounds like "frisbee" isn't in
the official Scrabble dictionary, so it is unacceptable in games that use
that dictionary.
You're free to play some other way, of course.
--
Darin McGrew, mcg...@stanfordalumni.org, http://www.rahul.net/mcgrew/
Web Design Group, da...@htmlhelp.com, http://www.HTMLHelp.com/
"If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging." - Will Rogers
Christopher Dearlove
<gra...@graemet.demon.co.uk> writes
>A few years ago (about a decade) Spear was bought by Mattel, thus
>continuing the disunity of the brand.
Thanks for the correction. I knew Spears had been bought (and with
Waddingtons gone leaving it less than obvious what the largest UK
owned board games company is) but then made the error you've
picked me up on.
--
Christopher Dearlove
Christopher Dearlove
<d...@davidparlett.co.uk> writes
>The fact that Cathy writes frisbee without a capital and that everybody
>knows what it means without her having to define it demonstrates that
>it has become a de facto generic and should therefore be acceptable.
Unfortunately there are companies, lawyers and politicians who make
a mess of this sort of thing.
>There may be more technically accurate terms for it, like flying disc
>or whatever, but in real life people are always going to use the
>shortest word that is readily understandable. It is for dictionaries
>and wordlists to follow the spoken language, not vice versa.
Mostly, but I think there are two errors to be made (a) to assume
there's
something Right that supersedes all usage, and (b) to assume that there
are no standards at all, and the majority is always right.
But if you were a dictionary publisher and MegaCorp limited threatened
to sue you if you put megacorp in your dictionary you might decide to
take the easy way out.
>On the other hand, we also designate an inhabitant of Ghana a Ghanaian,
>also spelt with a capital - but why should this be so? There are many
>Ghanaians, all having in common the definition that they are natives or
>nationals of Ghana. It is therefore by definition a generic and not a
>specific, and in my view ought to be allowed.
Would you spell it ghanaian? The Guardian newspaper went down a
route of reducing capitalisation - prime minister rather than Prime
Minister for example, but even they would stick with Ghanaian,
probably because it's seen as some sort of mark of respect as it
includes the country name - about which people are touchy (try
calling it "the" Ukraine in a forum with Ukrainians present).
Personally my beef is with changes which reduce precision,
especially when made deliberately. Politicians who say "I refute
that" when they mean "I deny that" are number one on my hate
list - refute is disprove, not deny, and typically the matter is true,
making refutation impossible.
--
Christopher Dearlove
David Parlett
>>or whatever, but in real life people are always going to use the
>>shortest word that is readily understandable. It is for dictionaries
>>and wordlists to follow the spoken language, not vice versa.
>
>Mostly, but I think there are two errors to be made (a) to assume
>there's
>something Right that supersedes all usage, and (b) to assume that there
>are no standards at all, and the majority is always right.
Point (a) encroaches on realms too metaphysical to enter here. (To tell
the truth, I don't know whether I assume it or not.) As to (b), I
actually tend to operate on the assumption that a majority opinion is
usually wrong, which is partly what prompted me to dispute the majority
opinion expressed on this topic. But to get back to the central issue,
my argument comes down to the fact that I know of no better generic word
for the object concerned.
jmd...@go.com
In the US, the association that oversees "Ultimate" is called the
Ultimate Players Association.
The world association is called the World Flying Disc Federation and
this covers not only Ultimate, but disc golf and many other disc
sports.
-Justin
Darin McGrew
> my argument comes down to the fact that I know of no better generic word
> for the object concerned.
Well, "flying disc" seems to work for a lot of people. So do "golf disc",
"ultimate disc", or "freestyle disc". Or simply "disc" if the context is
understood.
Darin McGrew, da...@TheRallyeClub.org, http://www.TheRallyeClub.org/
A gimmick car rallye is not a race, but a fun puzzle testing your
ability to follow instructions. Upcoming gimmick car rallye in
Silicon Valley: The Amazing Rallye (Saturday, July 1)
--
Darin McGrew, da...@TheRallyeClub.org, http://www.TheRallyeClub.org/
A gimmick car rallye is not a race, but a fun puzzle testing your
ability to follow instructions. Upcoming gimmick car rallye in
Silicon Valley: The Amazing Rallye (Saturday, July 1)
David Parlett
<mcg...@stanfordalumni.org> writes
>David Parlett <d...@davidparlett.co.uk> wrote:
>> my argument comes down to the fact that I know of no better generic word
>> for the object concerned.
>
>Well, "flying disc" seems to work for a lot of people. So do "golf disc",
>"ultimate disc", or "freestyle disc". Or simply "disc" if the context is
>understood.
I wouldn't have understood any of these terms had I not been acquainted
with the context, and I have never known a frisbee called anything else.
However, this could reflect a difference in usage on opposite sides of
the Atlantic. Over the weekend I will ask the (British) people I come
into contact with what they understand by these circumlocutions and will
report back on the result.
Chris Dollin
"flying disc" would likely be a UFO.
"golf disc" would be a "what? do you mean 'golf /ball/'?"
"ultimate disc" would be the last disc in a sequence. Or possibly
the best disc /ever/.
"freestyle disc" would be ... er ... look! in the sky! blue flames!
(fx:exit).
"disc" would be one of them gigabyte things. Or, if the context is
understood, "do you mean 'frisbee'?".
--
British Hedgehog
Notmuchhere: http://www.electric-hedgehog.net/
Otherface: Jena RDF/Owl toolkit http://jena.sourceforge.net/
Tim Fitzmaurice
> David Parlett <d...@davidparlett.co.uk> wrote:
>> Everyone seems to agree that frisbee isn't acceptable, but I want to
>> argue a contrary view.
>>
>> The fact that Cathy writes frisbee without a capital and that everybody
>> knows what it means without her having to define it demonstrates that it
>> has become a de facto generic and should therefore be acceptable.
>
> The fact that "Frisbee" is in my big unabridged dictionary but "frisbee" is
> not makes it unacceptable in my games. It sounds like "frisbee" isn't in
> the official Scrabble dictionary, so it is unacceptable in games that use
> that dictionary.
In the OED online its listed as 'Frisbee, frisbee' (whereas Stetson is
'Stetson'). I guess like anything in Scrabble or any other game where
language is the base the most important thing is to define your source of
validity, and have a copy to hand so that people can check.
Tim
--
When playing rugby, its not the winning that counts, but the taking apart
ICQ: 5178568
jmd...@go.com
Darin McGrew wrote:
> David Parlett <d...@davidparlett.co.uk> wrote:
> > my argument comes down to the fact that I know of no better generic word
> > for the object concerned.
>
> Well, "flying disc" seems to work for a lot of people. So do "golf disc",
> "ultimate disc", or "freestyle disc". Or simply "disc" if the context is
> understood.
Then there's the term, "lid" that I believe disc golfers use.
-Justin
Ewan McNay
jmd...@go.com wrote:
> Then there's the term, "lid" that I believe disc golfers use.
About which there is no doubt as to eligibility for play in Scrabble :)