BB: "Perfect" starting teams

9 views
Skip to first unread message

Anders Gabrielsson

unread,
May 13, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/13/95
to
cameron mcnary (mcn...@seas.smu.edu) wrote:

: * Skaven *
: 2 Rerolls 120,000
: 8 FF 80,000
: 1 Apothecary 50,000
: 1 Thrower 70,000
: 2 Gutter Runners 160,000
: 8 Linemen 400,000
: 1 Rat Ogre 120,000
: -------
: 1,000,000

I'd like to have another reserve, but I'm not sure what to remove. Maybe
one less reroll and one more FF? Though one reroll isn't quite enough...

: * Orcs *
: 2 Rerolls 120,000
: 9 FF 90,000
: 4 Blitzers 320,000
: 4 Black Orc Blockers 320,000
: 3 Linemen 150,000
: -------
: 1,000,000

I don't think this team has a "broad base of abilities". They can do one
thing: fight. You should at least include a thrower, maybe upgrading a lineman
by reducing FF.

: * High Elves *
: 1 Reroll 50,000
: 8 FF 80,000
: 1 Apothecary 50,000
: 1 Lion Warrior 90,000
: 1 Dragon Warrior 100,000
: 9 Linemen 630,000
: -------
: 1,000,000

No reserves? Quite some nerve... :) But it could work.

: * Humans *
: 3 Rerolls 150,000
: 8 FF 80,000
: 1 Apothecary 50,000
: 1 Thrower 70,000
: 1 Blitzer 90,000
: 3 Catchers 210,000
: 7 Linemen 350,000
: -------
: 1,000,000

I think three catchers is a bit much. I'd rather have another blitzer.
That way you can stand up to the battle-teams better.

: * Wood Elves *
: 9 FF 90,000
: 1 Apothecary 50,000
: 1 Wardancer 120,000
: 2 Catchers 180,000
: 8 Linemen 560,000
: -------
: 1,000,000

Again, no reserves. And no thrower. I don't think catchers are all that
important, as all players catch an accurate pass on 2+. Also, even welves
need rerolls (as I've found out the hard way...)

: * Dwarves *
: 2 Rerolls 80,000
: 9 FF 90,000
: 1 Apothecary 50,000
: 1 Runner 80,000
: 10 Longbeards 700,000
: -------
: 1,000,000

I really don't think dwarves need an apothecary from the beginning, at
least not if they haven't got any star players. I'd remove the Apo and some
FF and get another runner. Or buy another reroll.

: * Chaos Dwarves *
: 3 Rerolls 150,000
: 9 FF 90,000
: 1 Apothecary 50,000
: 1 Hthark the Unstoppable 180,000
: 3 Chaos Dwarf Blockers 210,000
: 8 Hobgoblins 320,000
: -------
: 1,000,000

This is good, I think. I'm personally not very fond of Hthark (not that
he's bad, just the concept of a dwarf bull centaur....), but he is a valuable
player.

: * Goblins *
: 3 Rerolls 180,000
: 9 FF 90,000
: 1 Apothecary 50,000
: 2 Trolls 240,000
: 1 Nobbla Blackwart 80,000
: 9 Goblins 360,000
: -------
: 1,000,000

I think I'd take one reroll less and one more goblin. You can never have
too many reserves on a goblin team.

: * Halflings *
: 1 Reroll 60,000
: 9 FF 90,000
: 1 Apothecary 50,000
: 1 Master Chef 150,000
: 1 Deeproot Strongbranch 180,000
: 1 Treeman 140,000
: 11 Halflings 330,000
: -------
: 1,000,000

This is OK. I'd like more reserves, but then you'd have to remove the
reroll, and that's not very attractive...

Anders

Bobby Warren

unread,
May 13, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/13/95
to
On Sat, 13 May 1995, Cameron McNnary wrote:

> * Halflings *
> 1 Reroll 60,000
> 9 FF 90,000
> 1 Apothecary 50,000
> 1 Master Chef 150,000
> 1 Deeproot Strongbranch 180,000
> 1 Treeman 140,000
> 11 Halflings 330,000

I have been working on designing a Halfling team as my team and it seems
to me that your starting team has 2 weaknesses. First of all, you can
almost bet you are going to lose a couple of Halfers to injury or death
during the match and if it happens quickly, then you will not have enough
of the little pot-bellied players to put on the pitch. Since you add +1
to the Halfling Injury Rolls, it is much more likely you will lose them
for the rest of the game, if not longer.

I would add at least two, if not three more of the little guys to the
team, so that would be an extra 90,000.

This is a team that screams "re-rolls!" More often than not, you will be
operating at a disadvantage and you will need the re-rolls. I would want
a base of at least three each half, and I would make it four if I could
afford it. Sure, the Master Chef can steal up to three from the other
side, but he burn his stew and they wouldn't get any extras from the
other side of the pitch and then they would end up with only the one
which you bought for them.

To get the cash to buy the extra little food junkies, I would sell off
the extra Treeman. With Deeproot on the side, you have the punch you
need to keep the other team honest, while also haveing the necessary
Throw Team-Mate skill. The rookie Treeman is strong and hard to hurt
but, like Deeproot, he is immobile and unlikely to have any luck when it
comes to using Agility skills (his stats would be: M2, S6, AG1, AV10).
I would rather have the extra warm, pudgy bodies to start the team off
and then add another Treeman later, when the cash is available.

Assuming that I add the three Halflings (+90,000) and kick the re-rolls up
to three (+120,000) then take away the extra Treeman (-140,000) I would
still be over budget by 70,000. That means I could drop the Apocathary
(bad idea) and move the Fan Factor down by two, or I could drop the Fan
Factor to two (considering the high turnover rate in live bodies, this
would be a bad idea). So, I think I would add two Halflings and then
drop the Fan Factor to five from nine.

On the average (assuming this means 14,000 less people at the gate), with
a beginning team, this would mean a loss of about 10,000 a match in
winnings, but having the extra re-rolls and players gives the starting
team a better chance at winning early on and not running out of players
right away. Remember, if you lose and do not put on a good show (score
twice or do multiple injuries) you will stand a better chance of losing
some of your initial Fan Factor and no chance of gaining any more. I
believe with the extra players (enough to survive three knocked out of the
game and still have a full team) and re-rolls, that a Halfling team should
be able to score a couple of TDs, or even cause a couple of serious
injuries (heck, Deeproot should be able to cause one per half, himself).

So, my team would look like this:

3 Reroll 180,000
5 FF 50,000


1 Apothecary 50,000
1 Master Chef 150,000
1 Deeproot Strongbranch 180,000

13 Halflings 390,000
=====================================
Total: 1,000,000

Any comments?

Bobby

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Bobby Warren | Subscribe to the Warhammer Fantasy Battles
com...@primenet.com | list by sending e-mail to
Glendale, Arizona | majo...@lists.primenet.com w/the message:
Owner of the WarhammerFB List | subscribe warhammerfb <e-mail address>

cameron mcnary

unread,
May 13, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/13/95
to
Since I was in a weird mood this evening, and this group hasn't seen a
really lively BB discussion in a while, I thought I would try the admittedly
impossible task of coming up with a list of "perfect" starting teams, one for
each race. My criterium for these teams has been the following, more or less:
one, each should be pretty good all-around, with a broad base of capabilities
that does not depend too much on any one "cunning plan". Two, no more than two
Big 'Uns per team, and no other star players from the flyer besides rookie big
guys. Three, high starting fan factor, with 2-3 rerolls and an apothecary if
possible (you'll note I didn't think it was for some teams). Three, I would
want to play with 'em.
You'll note I didn't make up a roster for Undead or Chaos teams. The
reason is twofold: one, I have little or no experience with such teams. Two,
the Undead roster has been beaten to death in this group, and the Chaos roster
in a recent White Dwarf. You are welcome to contribute your own rosters if you
wish.
Comments are not only welcome, they are expected. Remember to snip your
followups in a sufficiently polite manner, and let the discussion commence!

* Skaven *
2 Rerolls 120,000
8 FF 80,000
1 Apothecary 50,000
1 Thrower 70,000
2 Gutter Runners 160,000
8 Linemen 400,000
1 Rat Ogre 120,000
-------
1,000,000

* Orcs *


2 Rerolls 120,000
9 FF 90,000
4 Blitzers 320,000
4 Black Orc Blockers 320,000
3 Linemen 150,000
-------
1,000,000

* High Elves *


1 Reroll 50,000
8 FF 80,000
1 Apothecary 50,000
1 Lion Warrior 90,000
1 Dragon Warrior 100,000
9 Linemen 630,000
-------
1,000,000

* Humans *


3 Rerolls 150,000
8 FF 80,000
1 Apothecary 50,000
1 Thrower 70,000
1 Blitzer 90,000
3 Catchers 210,000
7 Linemen 350,000
-------
1,000,000

* Wood Elves *


9 FF 90,000
1 Apothecary 50,000

1 Wardancer 120,000
2 Catchers 180,000
8 Linemen 560,000
-------
1,000,000

* Dwarves *
2 Rerolls 80,000


9 FF 90,000
1 Apothecary 50,000

1 Runner 80,000
10 Longbeards 700,000
-------
1,000,000

* Chaos Dwarves *
3 Rerolls 150,000


9 FF 90,000
1 Apothecary 50,000

1 Hthark the Unstoppable 180,000
3 Chaos Dwarf Blockers 210,000
8 Hobgoblins 320,000
-------
1,000,000

* Goblins *
3 Rerolls 180,000


9 FF 90,000
1 Apothecary 50,000

2 Trolls 240,000
1 Nobbla Blackwart 80,000
9 Goblins 360,000
-------
1,000,000

* Halflings *


1 Reroll 60,000
9 FF 90,000
1 Apothecary 50,000
1 Master Chef 150,000
1 Deeproot Strongbranch 180,000
1 Treeman 140,000
11 Halflings 330,000

-------
1,000,000


--
--- Cameron "Heiphendork" McNary ---
Double Major, Acting and Computer Science, Southern Methodist University
"O you manufacturers of general rules, how little do you understand art..."
-- Denis Diderot, "Sur la poesie dramatique" (1758)

B.D. Redmond

unread,
May 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/15/95
to

All these teams have too much fan factor, IMO. FF, although being good at
gaining you more cash to but players with, doesn't do a lot for the money it
costs you, especially if you're playing another starting team with only 1
fan factor. Fanfactor is unlikely to gain you enough money difference to make
up for its cost quickly enough for a starting team. If you take it that having
a higher FF will give you probably a +2 to winnings, when playing another
starting team with low FF. They will probably beat you having a better team in
terms of players, and could well end up killing one of yours due to the same
reason. so winings, you end up with 10,000 More than them (Perhaps more,
perhaps less) but is this going to make up for an death?? unless you are
playing halflings its unlikely.

Ben

Patrik P}fvelsson

unread,
May 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/15/95
to
>* High Elves *
>1 Reroll 50,000
>8 FF 80,000
>1 Apothecary 50,000
>1 Lion Warrior 90,000
>1 Dragon Warrior 100,000
>9 Linemen 630,000
> -------
> 1,000,000

This roster is very much like my starting Dark Elf Roster:

*Dark Elves*
1 Reroll 50,000
7 FF 80,000
1 Apothecary 50.000
1 Blitzer 100.000
1 Thrower 90.000
9 Linemen 630.000

You could maybe replace the Thrower with a Witch Elf and lower
your FF by 2. Only eleven players in a starting lineup may seem
a little bold, but with the Elven teams this is almost a must.
Your tactics in your first 2-3 games are crucial. Just stay alive!
Winning or losing doesn't matter much. My first game was against
a Dwarf team (bad choice by me), and I got away without kills or
serious injuries. Unfortunately I didn't get enough money to buy
a new player, but after my second game vs a Wood Elf team I could
buy a Witch Elf. I still hadn't suffered any kills or serious
injuries. The third game was against another Dwarven team (the
only team I hadn't played in our league so far). I managed to win
the game without suffering any casualties, by outmanouvering my
opponent. Note: Staying alive <=> Winning is often true with Elf
teams. After this I had a team of 13 players, FF 9, an Apothecary
and one Team Reroll - a good basis for a to-become great team.
(If you are interested in the rest of the story, visit my home
page: http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~d2patrik/bb_sp.html )

>
>* Dwarves *
>2 Rerolls 80,000
>9 FF 90,000
>1 Apothecary 50,000
>1 Runner 80,000
>10 Longbeards 700,000
> -------
> 1,000,000

I suggest that a Dwarf team should start with 2 Runners, 2 Troll
Slayers, 2 Blitzers and 5 Linemen. Add 2 Rerolls, skip the
Apothecary (you can by one after the first game) and you will still
be able to by a Fan Factor of 7. If you want a good starter team,
you should definitely go for Dwarves (with the suggested lineup).
Dwarves are also relatively easy to play, if you are a beginner.

/Patrik.

Jacob Jonsson

unread,
May 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/15/95
to
B.D. Redmond (gen...@leeds.ac.uk) wrote:
: >* Skaven *
Good IMO

: >* Orcs *


: >2 Rerolls 120,000
: >9 FF 90,000
: >4 Blitzers 320,000
: >4 Black Orc Blockers 320,000
: >3 Linemen 150,000
: > -------
: > 1,000,000

I'd rather buy an ogre an make some of the
blitzers and bobs linemen.

: >* High Elves *


: >1 Reroll 50,000
: >8 FF 80,000
: >1 Apothecary 50,000
: >1 Lion Warrior 90,000
: >1 Dragon Warrior 100,000
: >9 Linemen 630,000
: > -------
: > 1,000,000

No thrower, I tried this and it didn't work. Having to spend
reroll on picking up the ball(as always, even for throwers)
no left to make the pass and even fewer to take does valuable
extra steps when Going for it.

My humble advice:
2 RR 100,000
7 FF 70,000
1 Lion 90,000
1 Dragon 100,000
1 Phoenix 80,000
8 Line 560,000
-------
1,000,000

: >* Humans *
: >3 Rerolls 150,000

: >8 FF 80,000
: >1 Apothecary 50,000
: >1 Thrower 70,000


: >1 Blitzer 90,000
: >3 Catchers 210,000
: >7 Linemen 350,000
: > -------
: > 1,000,000

I try to squeeze in an ogre here to.

2 RR 100
9 FF 90
1 Thrower 70
1 Catcher 70
2 Blizers 180
1 Ogre 140
7 Line 350
---
12 100

As you might expect I haven't lost too many players in the
first game, therefor I'm buying rerolls instead of the
apotechary.


: >* Wood Elves *
: >9 FF 90,000
: >1 Apothecary 50,000
: >1 Wardancer 120,000


: >2 Catchers 180,000
: >8 Linemen 560,000
: > -------
: > 1,000,000

No thrower and no reroll, not my game...

: >* Dwarves *


: >2 Rerolls 80,000
: >9 FF 90,000
: >1 Apothecary 50,000
: >1 Runner 80,000
: >10 Longbeards 700,000
: > -------
: > 1,000,000

I'd like a blitzer, but I've only played dwarfs for one game,
not knowing how the do in the league games.

: All these teams have too much fan factor, IMO. FF, although being good at

: gaining you more cash to but players with, doesn't do a lot for the money it
: costs you, especially if you're playing another starting team with only 1
: fan factor. Fanfactor is unlikely to gain you enough money difference to make
: up for its cost quickly enough for a starting team. If you take it that having
: a higher FF will give you probably a +2 to winnings, when playing another
: starting team with low FF. They will probably beat you having a better team in
: terms of players, and could well end up killing one of yours due to the same
: reason. so winings, you end up with 10,000 More than them (Perhaps more,
: perhaps less) but is this going to make up for an death?? unless you are
: playing halflings its unlikely.

: Ben

Yes, sure, but all the coaches but one in out league played
with 7+ FF, the other one started with minimum 1 (Orcs).

Guess who was whining our ears off after some 5-7 games
complaing about money and low salaries?

Bens analysis is of course correct, you are probable to
lose against a low FF team in the early league if you
are a high FF team.

But if you are a Low FF team you will constantly(almost) lose
against High FF teams in mid-late season, making it difficult
to qualify for Cups and even more difficult to win the Cups.

And every now and then the kickoff table gives us roll D6+FF
highest gets a Reroll(hint: 3+D6 < 9+D6).

Nuff said, I will always start any league with high FF even
if I can't continue in the long term. Its great to play for
some fans!

/Jacob

--
===============================================================================
|NAME : Jacob Jonsson |E-Mail | |VV|
|STREET : Sernanders v 4:142 | t93...@student.tdb.uu.se| / o | |VV|
|ZIP : 752 61 UPPSALA |-------------------------| & |_| |
|COUNTRY : Sweden | God is real, unless | | |
|VOICE : No voice at all | declared integer | |_______|
===============================================================================
|This message is printed with 100% recyclable electrons|
+======================================================+

Tim T Ketchum

unread,
May 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/15/95
to

> : >* Dwarves *
> : >2 Rerolls 80,000
> : >9 FF 90,000
> : >1 Apothecary 50,000
> : >1 Runner 80,000
> : >10 Longbeards 700,000
> : > -------
> : > 1,000,000
> I'd like a blitzer, but I've only played dwarfs for one game,
> not knowing how the do in the league games.
>
>


There are some major problems with this lineup. Do you realise you only
have one player with AG 3? I'd say this guy is going to have a major
target painted upon him. Once he's out you basically have no one left to
pick up the ball. Even if you managed to, those Longbeards (though I love
those guys with their Block & Tackle), they only have Movement 4 so they
just ain't going to go anywhere with it. Look at their AV, dump the
Apothecary for some time in the future, and get thee two Troll Slayers and
a Blitzer/Runner. For one thing, Troll Slayers have a huge psychological
effect on your opponent, they draw most of the fire allowing you to move
your Runner more freely.

-ttk

--
tket...@oregon.uoregon.edu

THE PSI-CORPS IS YOUR FRIEND. TRUST THE CORPS.

Arvidsson, Erik

unread,
May 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/16/95
to
In article <gen4bdr.3...@leeds.ac.uk> gen...@leeds.ac.uk (B.D. Redmond) writes:
>From: gen...@leeds.ac.uk (B.D. Redmond)
>Subject: Re: BB: "Perfect" starting teams
>Date: Mon, 15 May 1995 12:42:28 +0100 (BST)

>>* Chaos Dwarves *
>>3 Rerolls 150,000

>>9 FF 90,000
>>1 Apothecary 50,000

>>1 Hthark the Unstoppable 180,000
>>3 Chaos Dwarf Blockers 210,000
>>8 Hobgoblins 320,000
>> -------
>> 1,000,000

This was my set up

Chaos Dwarves
2 Rerolls 100k
9 FF 90k
1 Hthark the Unstoppable 180k
1 Chaos Dwarf with Blunderbus 100k
4 Chaos Dwarf Blockers 280k
6 Hobgoblins 240k

990k

No apothecary??? Well I don't really know why but it worked fine and after
your first game you can afford to buy one (unless you are really unlucky).
Otherwise you may swap one goblin for the apothecary but that would leave you
without any reserves. Otherwise you may take an apothecary and another
Hobgobbo instead of the blunderbus guy. In your setup you used only three
dwarves and to many hobgobbos. The more hobgobbos the more casualties (for
you) and the more dwarves the less casualties. The dwarf with the blunderbus
can be used on the line of scrimmage on defense and as thrower far back on
attack. Build a solid wall on the line at the last thing in your turn you try
to pick up the ball. Yuo probably woun't succeed but after a few turns you
will. Then let your hobgobbos swarm in towards the end zone and pull the
trigger. Hopefully the ball is on target but a reroll might be usefull.

>All these teams have too much fan factor, IMO. FF,
although being good at >gaining you more cash to but players with, doesn't do
a lot for the money it >costs you, especially if you're playing another
starting team with only 1 >fan factor. Fanfactor is unlikely to gain you
enough money difference to make >up for its cost quickly enough for a starting
team. If you take it that having >a higher FF will give you probably a +2 to
winnings, when playing another >starting team with low FF. They will probably
beat you having a better team in >terms of players, and could well end up
killing one of yours due to the same >reason. so winings, you end up with
10,000 More than them (Perhaps more, >perhaps less) but is this going to make
up for an death?? unless you are >playing halflings its unlikely.

>Ben

In this team you really need a high fanfactor since you really need the money
so you can buy that apothecary sone. And those hobgoblins are sure gonna die,
soner or later, and then you need the money so you can buy any more.

I hope this helped,

Erik

Nicklas Lundin

unread,
May 17, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/17/95
to

|>All these teams have too much fan factor, IMO. FF, although being good at

Have you never ever rolled 11 or 12 on a kick-off table??

Nicklas Lundin

ME

unread,
May 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/18/95
to
In article <3p16tv$4...@giant.seas.smu.edu>, mcn...@seas.smu.edu (cameron mcnary) writes..

Hi, Well I'm going to add my two cents to the discussion now :)

>* Skaven *
>2 Rerolls 120,000

>8 FF 80,000
>1 Apothecary 50,000
>1 Thrower 70,000

>2 Gutter Runners 160,000
>8 Linemen 400,000
>1 Rat Ogre 120,000
> -------
> 1,000,000

Well this starting team seems to really lack one thing in my opinion. Storm
Vermin. I find that having the Block skill is really a great addition to a
team like the Skaven that often find themself on the wrong side of a fist.
I started my team with one less Gutter Runner due to the fact that their
2 strength made them an easy target and the fact that you can pick one up
after a game (maybe two). They gain ssp's quicker than most of the other
players due to their scoring potential so I prefer to give the Storm Vermin
a leg up on gaining skills and starting them right away.

>* Orcs *
>2 Rerolls 120,000
>9 FF 90,000
>4 Blitzers 320,000
>4 Black Orc Blockers 320,000
>3 Linemen 150,000
> -------
> 1,000,000

Well here I feel that you have given the team too many Black Orcs. I know
that they are great with the 4 ST but in our leagues they have a tendency
to really suck and do very little. I like the 4 Blitzers but where's a
Thrower? If you want to have a balanced team (scoring potential) I feel
that a thrower (and possibly a Goblin) go a long way in helping the team
with some much needed scoring skills. Also, you haven't exploited the great
potential of star players on this team. You seem to be using the rookie
big guys but didn't take a Rookie Ogre who is a steal at 140,000 with Block
and ST 6, not to mention the chance to get skills like Mighty Blow, Break
Tackle (or Frenzy, Diving Tackle, Dodge) which can make the beast staggering.
Some of the other stars like Varag make some good additions in the casualty
area as well with the leader skill.


>* High Elves *
>1 Reroll 50,000
>8 FF 80,000
>1 Apothecary 50,000
>1 Lion Warrior 90,000
>1 Dragon Warrior 100,000
>9 Linemen 630,000
> -------
> 1,000,000


This team looks pretty good to me :) and being an elven coach in general that
probably means it is one of the best starting set ups. With the high cost
of the elves you really don't have too many options. You may want to start
with a thrower and lose a lineman and 2 fan factor. But that is up to the
coach.


>* Humans *
>3 Rerolls 150,000
>8 FF 80,000
>1 Apothecary 50,000
>1 Thrower 70,000
>1 Blitzer 90,000
>3 Catchers 210,000
>7 Linemen 350,000
> -------
> 1,000,000


I think that you are really taking a lot of punch away from this team by
giving it 3 Catchers who have ST 2 and only 1 Blitzer. The Blitzers taking
guard and mighty Blow really give the team a hard hitting edge. I think
you made them too into the scoring game and not physical enough. That is one
of the Human teams big advantages is that they can supposedly play both
finesse and power games fairly well. Again you didn't start with any star
players. Griff, although he sucks ssp's from the team can help win your
first few games and is a great safety on defense. And the rookie ogre
will play for this team as well.


>* Wood Elves *


>9 FF 90,000
>1 Apothecary 50,000

>1 Wardancer 120,000
>2 Catchers 180,000
>8 Linemen 560,000
> -------
> 1,000,000


*shudder* NO rerolls.....this is kinda harsh. I mean an elven team (especially
wood elves) have such high player cost and high death rates (ESPECIALLY wood
elves) that they always have to spend their winnings on players to keep a full
roster. Or saving for the much needed and very useful Treeman. This means
the team will rarely have the chance to buy a reroll so will be stuck with
no rerolls for a very long time. An I know elves are supposed to not need
them due to their high AG but they are still very usefull. I would lose a
catcher and a little Fan Factor for a reroll. You could pick up another
catcher easier than you can buy a reroll.


>* Dwarves *
>2 Rerolls 80,000

>9 FF 90,000
>1 Apothecary 50,000

>1 Runner 80,000
>10 Longbeards 700,000
> -------
> 1,000,000


I would add another runner. If the one you have is injured no one on the team
can really do anything with the ball. And when it takes your team the better
part of the half to move down the field a Dwarven team doesn't have any time
to waste trying to pick up the ball. Throwing it would be out, dodging is out
so a clear path to the end zone would be needed for the ball carrier. You
could afford to lose the apothecary to buy another runner. With their tough
nature Dwarves rarely suffer too many casualties in their first few games
since they all have Block and Thick Skull (well most have Block).


>* Chaos Dwarves *
>3 Rerolls 150,000
>9 FF 90,000
>1 Apothecary 50,000
>1 Hthark the Unstoppable 180,000
>3 Chaos Dwarf Blockers 210,000
>8 Hobgoblins 320,000
> -------
> 1,000,000


I have seen some fairly successful Chaos Dwarf teams and this looks really
similar to them. You may want a Blunderbuss just for fun but that is really
a questionable option.

>* Goblins *
>3 Rerolls 180,000

>9 FF 90,000
>1 Apothecary 50,000

>2 Trolls 240,000
>1 Nobbla Blackwart 80,000
>9 Goblins 360,000
> -------
> 1,000,000

MORE GOBLINS!!!!! you need as many of the little guys as possible. Lose a
troll and a reroll for some replacement players. Without numbers Goblins
die real quick. Also there are some other real cheap stars that can be
a great weapon to a Goblin team: Fungus the Loon is great for running
amuck against a team and a bombadier really plays havoc against an opponents
offense. How do you get a well formed cage protecting the ball carrier if
a Goblin can just toss a bomb in the middle of it. It may not be very
effective all the time but the risk alone should have most opponents wary
of it.

>* Halflings *
>1 Reroll 60,000

>9 FF 90,000
>1 Apothecary 50,000

>1 Master Chef 150,000
>1 Deeproot Strongbranch 180,000
>1 Treeman 140,000
>11 Halflings 330,000
> -------
> 1,000,000

The rookie Treeman is a rip off at the price he lost a point of ST and the
Block skill. The two things that made a Treeman dangerous. Pick up a few
more halflings with that money so you can just start saving for another
real Treeman not a rookie one. Moreso than the Goblins these players are
fragile and break easy so you need lot's of additional players to take their
place as they break.


> --- Cameron "Heiphendork" McNary ---


Well you expected opinions so you got mine :) Have fun all. Later.

Lou Angelli


Bobby Warren

unread,
May 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/19/95
to
ME (v122...@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu) wrote:
: In article <3p16tv$4...@giant.seas.smu.edu>, mcn...@seas.smu.edu (cameron mcnary) writes..

: Lou Angelli


--

Bobby Warren

unread,
May 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/19/95
to
Sorry about that last message... My keyboard locked up and I hit <enter>
out of frustration and it sent the damned message...

Signs of Chaos

unread,
May 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/19/95
to
In article <3p209r$i...@news.primenet.com>, com...@primenet.com (Bobby Warren)
writes:

>So, my team would look like this:
>
>3 Reroll 180,000
>5 FF 50,000

>1 Apothecary 50,000
>1 Master Chef 150,000
>1 Deeproot Strongbranch 180,000

>13 Halflings 390,000
>=====================================
> Total: 1,000,000
>
>Any comments?

Yes. I agree with most of what you said (it's been deleted:). However, I
think the Master Chef is competent enough for you to cut another reroll (60K)
and throw it into a Halfling (30K) and another 3 FF (hence making it an 8).
This might make for a more solid team - the team can win a few kickoff table
results (and, more importantly, is not at a huge disadvantage when it comes
to them, especially to Throw A Rock and Pitch Invasion), can get more money,
and can survive a 4th Halfling casualty and *still* field a full team (and
you're probably going to have the 4 casualties early if you start out on
defense).

>Bobby

-=-Chet


Signs of Chaos

unread,
May 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/19/95
to
In article <gen4bdr.3...@leeds.ac.uk>, gen...@leeds.ac.uk (B.D.
Redmond) writes:

>All these teams have too much fan factor, IMO. FF, although being good at

>gaining you more cash to but players with, doesn't do a lot for the money it
>costs you, especially if you're playing another starting team with only 1
>fan factor. Fanfactor is unlikely to gain you enough money difference to make
>up for its cost quickly enough for a starting team. If you take it that having
>a higher FF will give you probably a +2 to winnings, when playing another
>starting team with low FF. They will probably beat you having a better team in
>terms of players, and could well end up killing one of yours due to the same
>reason. so winings, you end up with 10,000 More than them (Perhaps more,
>perhaps less) but is this going to make up for an death?? unless you are
>playing halflings its unlikely.

In our first league, we thought the same thing. It wasn't until teams started
getting 20K EVERY SINGLE GAME that we learned the error of our ways...

Nowadays, 4 is considered the ABSOLUTE minimum. 6 is more realisticly the
minimum; 7+ is considered optimal. As another poster has pointed out, the team
with the high FF wins the kickoff table results - often with devastating effect.

>Ben

-=-Chet


Tim T Ketchum

unread,
May 19, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/19/95
to
In article <3piuen$i...@azure.acsu.buffalo.edu>,
v073...@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu wrote:

When I started Girth First! (actually a Treeman/Halfling team) I used:

1 Reroll
6 FF
1 Master Chef
2 Deeproots
1 Rookie Treeman
8(!) halflings

Sure, it has some major weaknesses (no reserves, not many rerolls), but
since I knew my first game was going to be against a starting goblin team,
I thought I might just get away with it. I got lucky and got a Special
Offer my first game and was able to afford another Rookie Treeman
(granted - I would have liked another Deeproot but even a crappy sapling
treeman has a 6S and a 10AV) I don't win many games, but using the "Grove
Defense" and making sure to never leave a Halfing in anybody's
tacklezone, I've somehow managed to inflict more casualties than I've
received (knock on a tall teammate!). After a few games I've managed to
get an Apothecary and several extra players. Basically, from here on out
I only need to buy replacements and re-rolls.

This team has been involved in some the funnier games we've played. The
aforementioned Goblin game was played in a blizzard (try getting anywhere
with a 5 movement under those circumstances). I played a woodelf team
(Willow Wisps) once who started the second half (they were receiving the
ball) with several casualties and 6 guys in the KO box, NONE of which
made their KO recovery rolls (I figured they were too scared to come back
out on the pitch). The Wisps started with only three guys, one of which
got KO'd immediately by failing to dodge out of a tackle zone, that left
two guys who managed (with the help of one of my Halflings and a DUH WHERE
AM I card) to run circles around my guys eventually scoring on turn 8 to
win 1-0.

Nicklas Lundin

unread,
May 20, 1995, 3:00:00 AM5/20/95
to
My Hi elf team got FF 28 as of now, however I've four times met a W-elf team,
the Woodland Blackhawks, that got around FF 45. This makes every kick-off (we
usually have 10-12 per game) a true horror, but there is always cards like
merchandising and #1 with a bullet.

High FF is vital in BB.

Nicklas Lundin

B.D. Redmond

unread,
Jun 4, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/4/95
to
>|>In our first league, we thought the same thing. It wasn't until teams started
>|>getting 20K EVERY SINGLE GAME that we learned the error of our ways...

WOW!!! 20K is SO much!! You can by all of half a goblin with it!!!

You're probably going to end up as much by winning. spend more money on
rerolls and players. Assure yourself of victory, thats how you make money
When your teams get good enought fanfactor gives you sod all money anyway, its
winning that makes the real difference


>|>Nowadays, 4 is considered the ABSOLUTE minimum. 6 is more realisticly the
>|>minimum; 7+ is considered optimal. As another poster has pointed out, the team
>|>with the high FF wins the kickoff table results - often with devastating effect.
>|

OOOOO scarey - you've gained another reroll! that makes Nine now. Pitty you
can only use 8!!! what a shame. Oh, and fouls with "get the ref" if you've got
a better team its unlikely that they're going to get a boot in with any
reasnably chance of doing any damage anyway, and then theres always your
apothecary.

>|>
>My Hi elf team got FF 28 as of now, however I've four times met a W-elf team,
>the Woodland Blackhawks, that got around FF 45. This makes every kick-off (we
>usually have 10-12 per game) a true horror, but there is always cards like
>merchandising and #1 with a bullet.

On the kick offs read above, possibly the "Get the ref" could be damaging for
elf teams, but surely, by the time you've got this much fanfactor your team
has found a few magic helmets.


>High FF is vital in BB.

Possibly. But having agood team is more vital, and more fun!!!!


Ben

Signs of Chaos

unread,
Jun 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/5/95
to
In article <gen4bdr.4...@leeds.ac.uk>, gen...@leeds.ac.uk (B.D.
Redmond) writes:

>>|>In our first league, we thought the same thing. It wasn't until teams started
>>|>getting 20K EVERY SINGLE GAME that we learned the error of our ways...

>WOW!!! 20K is SO much!! You can by all of half a goblin with it!!!

I would think that perhaps you would have understood the problem; but your
subsequent statements assure me that this is not so.

>You're probably going to end up as much by winning. spend more money on
>rerolls and players. Assure yourself of victory, thats how you make money
>When your teams get good enought fanfactor gives you sod all money anyway, its
>winning that makes the real difference

Nada. I think a healthy balance has to be struck. Admittedly, you can't buy
all Linemen for your team in order to buy rerolls and FF, but neither can you
buy all position players, relying on them to save you from needing FF and
rerolls.

Consider - each FF should bring in an extra 3,500 fans; hence, it should, in
theory, take 5 points of FF (17,500 fans) to bring in that extra 10K.

However, if we look at the situation on average, it should only take 3 points
of FF (7,500) to boost you enough to get to the next money bonus on the
attendance chart (just think about it). That 3K spent on FF will basically
assue you of an extra 10K each and every game. 3K is usually the difference
between a Lineman and a position player. Is that position player really
going to be worth an extra 10K per game? I doubt it.

>>>Nowadays, 4 is considered the ABSOLUTE minimum. 6 is more realisticly the
>>>minimum; 7+ is considered optimal. As another poster has pointed out, the
>>>team with the high FF wins the kickoff table results - often with
>>>devastating effect.

>OOOOO scarey - you've gained another reroll!

Obviously, you've forgotten Pitch Invasions and Thrown Rocks.

>that makes Nine now. Pitty you can only use 8!!! what a shame.

2 points to make here:

1.) Who cares about "only being able to use 8"? If I'm a starting team, I
certainly won't have more than 4 rerolls, so this isn't a factor.

2.) You're wrong when you say I "can only use 8". A Blitz allows me to "take
an extra team turn." Hence, I *can* use extra rerolls on such things.

>Oh, and fouls with "get the ref" if you've got
>a better team its unlikely that they're going to get a boot in with any
>reasnably chance of doing any damage anyway, and then theres always your
>apothecary.

Mayhaps our league is a *tad* more violent than yours, but around here, a lot
of teams live and die by the foul. Hell, offenses (and defenses) revolve around
the local Dirty Player (or 2). And an Apothecary is hardly failsafe.

>On the kick offs read above, possibly the "Get the ref" could be damaging for
>elf teams,

It can be very damaging for *all* teams, as any team whose fans have "gotten
the ref" will be sure to foul EACH AND EVERY TURN, with damaging skill
players (Mighty Blow/Dirty Player/Claw/Razor Sharp Fangs/Pro) leading the way.
And they'll NEVER GET CAUGHT, meaning they can't possibly fall behind in the
player-count when fouling.

>but surely, by the time you've got this much fanfactor your team
>has found a few magic helmets.

Admittedly, the 28 FF case cited by another poster seemed extreme to everyone
I've played with. But "a few magic helmets"? Surely, you're kidding - it's
one card out of 27. You are far more likely, in fact, to roll the Pitch
Invasion than to find such an item (1 out of 36 chance, of course, but attempts
to roll it are made multiple times in the same game, greatly increasing the
odds of a Pitch Invasion over that of your own team finding a Magic Helmet).

>>High FF is vital in BB.

>Possibly. But having agood team is more vital, and more fun!!!!

How much of a "good team" can you have that you can sacrifice FF against it?

Considering all the teams, I can only think that Wood Elves need to sack the FF
for quality players - they can feasibly float 2 Catchers and a Wardancer on a
starting team, rather than 2 Catchers, a Lineman, and the extra 5 FF. In such a
case, I might be prone to agree with you; but otherwise, I can't see starting
with very low (1-3, maybe 4 or 5) FF. I've seen various teams try it, and they
all pay a price, long-term *or* short.

>Ben

-=-Chet


Signs of Chaos

unread,
Jun 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/5/95
to
In article <3qvoqr$l...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
aha...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig) writes:

>However, a lot of extra starting FF = 1 lineman = 1 reroll.

Don't forget = 1 Apothecary.

Which *certainly* more than pays for itself, if at least one player per game
per team kicks the bucket in your league (as they do in ours).

-=-Chet Z.


sonny hays-eberts

unread,
Jun 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/5/95
to
Redmond) wrote:

> >|>In our first league, we thought the same thing. It wasn't until teams started
> >|>getting 20K EVERY SINGLE GAME that we learned the error of our ways...
>
> WOW!!! 20K is SO much!! You can by all of half a goblin with it!!!

so sarcasm escapes you, eh?

the point that you seemed to miss is that a starting team with low ff will
average 30-40k per game, maxing at 70k and maybe even only getting 10k.

a starting team with a 9ff and a coach cunning enough to play another team
with a 9ff can walk away with up to 120k and should expect 70-80k, and at
worst should get 40-60k.

at 70-80k per match for your first few, you can almost purchase a player
per game. at 30-40k, you can purchase 1 per two games. after four games,
which team will have a deeper roster, in all probability?

my high ff teams don't carry other low ff teams. it's a consideration in
who i play when given the choice. and short of tournaments, you *do* get a
choice in who you play.

> You're probably going to end up as much by winning. spend more money on
> rerolls and players. Assure yourself of victory, thats how you make money
> When your teams get good enought fanfactor gives you sod all money anyway, its
> winning that makes the real difference

winning gets you an extra 10k and a +1 on your ff roll. it's not winning
that makes all the difference; it's keeping players alive, developing
skills and adding players to your roster that makes the real difference.
i've lost games 2-1 on the scoreboard, yet won 5-2 when all the crosses are
put in the ground, if you know what i mean.

now, playing for tournament money, *that's* when winning makes the real
difference.



> >|>Nowadays, 4 is considered the ABSOLUTE minimum. 6 is more realisticly the
> >|>minimum; 7+ is considered optimal. As another poster has pointed out, the team
> >|>with the high FF wins the kickoff table results - often with devastating effect.
> >|
>

> OOOOO scarey - you've gained another reroll! that makes Nine now. Pitty you
> can only use 8!!! what a shame. Oh, and fouls with "get the ref" if you've got

> a better team its unlikely that they're going to get a boot in with any
> reasnably chance of doing any damage anyway, and then theres always your
> apothecary.

look at what an 11 or 12 is on the kickoff table. then ask yourself if you
want to spot somebody 8 or 9 fan factor points. given that most games
involve about four kickoffs (and up to 8 i've seen), that means you'll get
an 11 or 12 about once every 3 games. i've seen it multiple times in the
same game.

also, i've only seen teams with up to four re-rolls (five with leader).
they'd all take the extra.

and for those rare teams with 8 already, i've only got three things to say-
1. master chefs
2. bad habits
3. blitz bonus turn

as far as getting the boot into a team-try dirty player. my dark elves have
refined the art of agre killing as to make it easy. ok, easy in comparison.
:)

dauntless+block plus assist downs ogre. dirty player fouls. it doesn't take
long to cart them off. mighty blow is a little less painful, but if you
think fouls without being caught are nothing to sneeze at, your league must
play awfully nice. most of the time my big guys are fouled there's enough
assists to make the armor roll on a 4+. toss in that +2 on the injury roll
and you're looking at badly hurt or worse almost 50% of the time (natural
8+ on dice).

i've gotten 'get the ref' in conjunction with grudge match. it should make
*any* team tremble, regardless of differences in team ratings.

and lastly, apothecaries fail to work 16 2/3% of the time. as blood bowl
luck goes, it will be the *worst* time too.

> >My Hi elf team got FF 28 as of now, however I've four times met a W-elf team,
> >the Woodland Blackhawks, that got around FF 45. This makes every kick-off (we
> >usually have 10-12 per game) a true horror, but there is always cards like
> >merchandising and #1 with a bullet.
>

> On the kick offs read above, possibly the "Get the ref" could be damaging for

> elf teams, but surely, by the time you've got this much fanfactor your team

> has found a few magic helmets.

?? i've played 45 league games. magic helmet has surfaced *once*.

'is it a td' on the other hand... :)

>
>
> >High FF is vital in BB.
>
> Possibly. But having agood team is more vital, and more fun!!!!

having a high ff directly contributes to making a team much better. my
teams with low ffs have struggled to replace players or add extras except
for the orc team lucky enough to get a 'that boys got talent' card. those
that started at 7, 8 or 9 almost all have full rosters now.

only the undead can afford to skip ff. when your replacements are free, why
help your opponent by giving him money? plus, you can't buy a wizard or
apothecary, so why save, other than to replace the dead ghoul now and then?

--
like the forest's fight for sunlight, it takes root in every tree
pulled upwards by the magnet, believing they are free
-- genesis

sonny hays-eberts
ebe...@oregon.uoregon.edu

Signs of Chaos

unread,
Jun 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/5/95
to
In article <eberts-05...@shays.uoregon.edu>, ebe...@oregon.uoregon.edu

(sonny hays-eberts) writes:
>In article <gen4bdr.4...@leeds.ac.uk>, gen...@leeds.ac.uk (B.D.
Redmond) wrote:

>winning gets you an extra 10k and a +1 on your ff roll. it's not winning
>that makes all the difference; it's keeping players alive, developing
>skills and adding players to your roster that makes the real difference.
>i've lost games 2-1 on the scoreboard, yet won 5-2 when all the crosses are
>put in the ground, if you know what i mean.

This brings up one major gripe local players have - winning isn't really
all that important, it seems, in this edition of Blood Bowl.

In 2nd ed., winning was everything, but it seems as if, perhaps, the scales
have been tipped too far in the other direction. Consider: if developing
skills and adding players makes the biggest difference, it follows that you
can do the most harm to the other team by eliminating his players. Wholesale.

Does anyone else feel this is such a problem? I'm one of the few coaches
who actually give a damn about winning the game (in addition to the other
things), and I go to great lengths to tear up the other team, as well.
Some coaches (not mentioning any kind of teams...like CHAOS:) don't even
bother with annoying little considerations like the ball, and hence could
be rather un-fun to play, if you happen to be the coach of, say, a Skaven
team.

>now, playing for tournament money, *that's* when winning makes the real
>difference.

Of course, I readily concede that coaches who try to win ALL the time generally
do it better than coaches who don't; and I wholeheartedly agree that killing
the opposition is NOT the same as winning, so maybe this comes back to haunt
the psychotic-killer teams when the playoffs roll around...

>look at what an 11 or 12 is on the kickoff table. then ask yourself if you
>want to spot somebody 8 or 9 fan factor points. given that most games
>involve about four kickoffs (and up to 8 i've seen), that means you'll get
>an 11 or 12 about once every 3 games. i've seen it multiple times in the
>same game.

Actually, with 4 kickoffs, the odds of seeing an 11 or 12 are better than
50/50. So the odds of seeing it within 2 games is pretty damn good (about 3
out of 4 - better, even).

>also, i've only seen teams with up to four re-rolls (five with leader).
>they'd all take the extra.

My team had 6, with no leader. So did another Dwarf team. A seventh ALWAYS
comes in handy when you're playing against a good/stronger/better team.

Against lightweights, it doesn't matter. But I don't play lightweights if I
can help it, on general principle :)

>and lastly, apothecaries fail to work 16 2/3% of the time. as blood bowl
>luck goes, it will be the *worst* time too.

Blood Bowl Odds on that make-or-break, all-important roll of the dice:

IF ODDS > .50 THEN ODDS = 1 - ODDS
ELSE ODDS = ODDS -.10

:)

>?? i've played 45 league games. magic helmet has surfaced *once*.

My opponent finally drew one, at which point I used Double Cross to give it
to a Ghoul :)

>'is it a td' on the other hand... :)

Around here, that damn dog ("WOOF WOOF!") manages to constantly slip past the
security, prompting the following comment at just about every game:

"How many cards are in this deck, anyway?"

>only the undead can afford to skip ff. when your replacements are free, why
>help your opponent by giving him money? plus, you can't buy a wizard or
>apothecary, so why save, other than to replace the dead ghoul now and then?

Having coached an Undead team, I'll volunteer these reasons for high FF:

1.) Your team is nasty enough. They're particularly nasty when they
keep winning the kickoff results.

2.) Vampires are your best players, and they're EXPENSIVE. It helps
if you can get them as soon as possible.

3.) Using Mixed Race rules, you're going to want Chaos Warriors and
Storm Vermin (1 of each or 2 of 1) - and these players cost 150K
and 135K, respectively.

4.) Your best normal players are all 70K+.

5.) You can easily afford to. 2 Mummies, 2 Wights, 2 Ghouls, and 6
Assorted Scum (Zombies and Skeletons - conveniently, the exact
players contained in the Champions of Death box set), plus 3
rerolls, leaves 90K leftover for (conveniently enough) a FF of 9.

-=-Acerak the Undying


Alec Habig

unread,
Jun 5, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/5/95
to
B.D. Redmond <gen...@leeds.ac.uk> wrote:
>You're probably going to end up as much by winning. spend more money on
>rerolls and players. Assure yourself of victory, thats how you make money
>When your teams get good enought fanfactor gives you sod all money anyway, its
>winning that makes the real difference

Winning, of course, is the object of the game.

However, a lot of extra starting FF = 1 lineman = 1 reroll.

1 lineman or 1 reroll more or less isn't a huge difference on the game.
Neither is the FF.

BUT, after a few games, the extra FF has payed for itself (even neglecting the
kickoff table). Anything after that is pure profit.

>OOOOO scarey - you've gained another reroll! that makes Nine now. Pitty you
>can only use 8!!! what a shame. Oh, and fouls with "get the ref" if you've got
>a better team its unlikely that they're going to get a boot in with any
>reasnably chance of doing any damage anyway, and then theres always your
>apothecary.

Wow - 8 rerolls on a starting team might leave you with enough money left over
for a lineman or two to actually use the rerolls!

>>High FF is vital in BB.
>
>Possibly. But having agood team is more vital, and more fun!!!!

High FF is part of the road towards getting a good team. So's an apothecary.
So are rerolls, etc., ad nauseam.

Alec

--
Alec Habig, Indiana University High Energy Astrophysics
aha...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
http://astrowww.astro.indiana.edu/personnel/ahabig/
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns.

Nicklas Lundin

unread,
Jun 6, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/6/95
to

In article <gen4bdr.4...@leeds.ac.uk>, gen...@leeds.ac.uk (B.D. Redmond) writes:
|>>My Hi elf team got FF 28 as of now, however I've four times met a W-elf team,
|>>the Woodland Blackhawks, that got around FF 45. This makes every kick-off (we
|>>usually have 10-12 per game) a true horror, but there is always cards like
|>>merchandising and #1 with a bullet.
|>
|>On the kick offs read above, possibly the "Get the ref" could be damaging for
|>elf teams, but surely, by the time you've got this much fanfactor your team
|>has found a few magic helmets.

Just a comment; I've lost (as in dead, Dead, DEAD) four players on pitch
invasions and/or rock-throwings. Of course I've managed to kill three "bad
ones" with the same metod. In fact, on of those gave me a Dragon Warrior
(i.e. on That boy's got talent!) who in the same game scored twice and managed
to beat up two more (ahhh, sweet memory). Naturally he was elected MVP and rolled
a double (Mi Blow) and a "normal" (Tackle), he knows how to hurt opponents....

I've only got one helmet in my team (about 40 games), they are hard to come by...


|>
|>
|>>High FF is vital in BB.
|>
|>Possibly. But having agood team is more vital, and more fun!!!!
|>

Well, my TR is around 320 and the Woodland Blackhawks is rated above 400.

|>
|>Ben
|>

High FF is vital in BB.

Nicklas Lundin

B.D. Redmond

unread,
Jun 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/7/95
to
>the point that you seemed to miss is that a starting team with low ff will
>average 30-40k per game, maxing at 70k and maybe even only getting 10k.

How can you MAX when the amount of money you win depens on your opponents FF
as well. I think the effective MAX is a +7 (+6 from FF +1 for winning)
therefore the max is 130K

>a starting team with a 9ff and a coach cunning enough to play another team
>with a 9ff can walk away with up to 120k and should expect 70-80k, and at
>worst should get 40-60k.

You've hit the point here, your opponents fan factor counts as well, so if you
play someone with a high FF then you're going to get more dosh than them
because you won and they lost because their team isn't as good as yours.

>at 70-80k per match for your first few, you can almost purchase a player
>per game. at 30-40k, you can purchase 1 per two games. after four games,
>which team will have a deeper roster, in all probability?

>my high ff teams don't carry other low ff teams. it's a consideration in
>who i play when given the choice. and short of tournaments, you *do* get a
>choice in who you play.

If you're going to be unsporting because someone else has bought a better
starting team than you then what can I say.

>> You're probably going to end up as much by winning. spend more money on
>> rerolls and players. Assure yourself of victory, thats how you make money
>> When your teams get good enought fanfactor gives you sod all money anyway, its
>> winning that makes the real difference

>winning gets you an extra 10k and a +1 on your ff roll. it's not winning


>that makes all the difference; it's keeping players alive, developing
>skills and adding players to your roster that makes the real difference.
>i've lost games 2-1 on the scoreboard, yet won 5-2 when all the crosses are
>put in the ground, if you know what i mean.

This is an argument I can relate to, being a chaos coach. but FF Very rarely
prevents your players from dying if you have a hard team (Choas, Orcs, Dwarves
or Undead). Passing teams are more likely to make up XP from having more
touchdowns and completions than a hitting team.
If we look at the above example, (I'm presuming that the score is included in
the 5-2, so its 4-0 on the casuaties)
You Them
1 TD = 3 2 TD = 6
4 Cas = 8 (assume 1 or 2 comps per TD)
3 Comp = 3
(Assume an interception if you only
managed to core 1)
1 Int = 2

Total = 11 =11

Tied! this is how the game tries to balance itself out between passing and
hitting teams, it may not be precisely correct for the said game, but that was
just to illustrate the point that its winning that will make the difference by
having money increased and FF increased, If you loose then your FF is pretty
likely to drop, and if you win pretty likely to increase, so after 3 or 4
games, they're pobably at a similar level anyway

>now, playing for tournament money, *that's* when winning makes
the real>difference.

Good point, so spend more money on your team and win more games and be better
when it comes to tournament time so that you can beat all the weedy high ff
teams

>look at what an 11 or 12 is on the kickoff table. then ask yourself if you
>want to spot somebody 8 or 9 fan factor points. given that most games
>involve about four kickoffs (and up to 8 i've seen), that means you'll get
>an 11 or 12 about once every 3 games. i've seen it multiple times in the
>same game.

an 11 is thrown rock? Usually ending up with 1 player stunned unless you're
really unlucky. Pitch invasion can be quite damaging, but how often does it
happen, Its never happened against me, and I only knowof one team in the
league who it has happened to, and it lost them the game. But what can you do
against something this rare? FF is really not worth the money just to avoid
this.

>also, i've only seen teams with up to four re-rolls (five with leader).
>they'd all take the extra.

This is probably because High FF starting teams aren't as good as low FF
starting teams due to the fact that they get beaten a lot and so can't afford
the extra rerolls

>and for those rare teams with 8 already, i've only got three things to say-
>1. master chefs

Well we all know how scary a halfling team is, especially to a chaos team

>2. bad habits

Extra training is about twice as common in the Spec Play card decks

>3. blitz bonus turn

I fail to see how this affects the number of rerolls a team has. But I do
agree that it can be damaging, but if the first guy you move gets a 1 or a
skull, and you've got no rerolls then the blitz is wasted

>as far as getting the boot into a team-try dirty player. my dark elves have
>refined the art of agre killing as to make it easy. ok, easy in comparison.
>:)

In comparisson, exactly. I'd like to see you try and take down Morg with a
couple of Chaos Warrior guardsmen on him, one with a ST of 5

>dauntless+block plus assist downs ogre. dirty player fouls. it doesn't take
>long to cart them off. mighty blow is a little less painful, but if you
>think fouls without being caught are nothing to sneeze at, your league must
>play awfully nice. most of the time my big guys are fouled there's enough
>assists to make the armor roll on a 4+. toss in that +2 on the injury roll
>and you're looking at badly hurt or worse almost 50% of the time (natural
>8+ on dice).

Dauntless works on an Ogre less than just over 50% of the time, and if it
fails you still have to block, its riskier than a one dice block when you both
have block, but no dodge

>i've gotten 'get the ref' in conjunction with grudge match. it should make
>*any* team tremble, regardless of differences in team ratings.

Yet again a very rare combo that I have no knowlege of anyone actually
getting. You can't try and justify FF by stating all these obscure
combinations that hardly ever occur.

>and lastly, apothecaries fail to work 16 2/3% of the time. as blood bowl
>luck goes, it will be the *worst* time too.

Yes, I suppose so, but this sortof luck can happen to anyone

>> >My Hi elf team got FF 28 as of now, however I've four times met a W-elf team,
>> >the Woodland Blackhawks, that got around FF 45. This makes every kick-off (we
>> >usually have 10-12 per game) a true horror, but there is always cards like
>> >merchandising and #1 with a bullet.
>>
>> On the kick offs read above, possibly the "Get the ref" could be damaging for
>> elf teams, but surely, by the time you've got this much fanfactor your team
>> has found a few magic helmets.

>?? i've played 45 league games. magic helmet has surfaced *once*.

I think there's 2 cards in the deck of 50, so you were a bit unlucky. I've
played 31 games with my chaos team, and 12 with my undead, and have a total of
3

>'is it a td' on the other hand... :)

theres 3 in a deck of about 100, now I'm not a maths student, but an obvious
statistical advantage for the helmet. You still get the XP for the TD anyway,
so your player doen't suffer

>>
>>
>> >High FF is vital in BB.
>>
>> Possibly. But having agood team is more vital, and more fun!!!!

>having a high ff directly contributes to making a team much better. my


>teams with low ffs have struggled to replace players or add extras except
>for the orc team lucky enough to get a 'that boys got talent' card. those
>that started at 7, 8 or 9 almost all have full rosters now.

I'll say it once , I'll say it a thousand times. You can't use excuses of
relying on SP cards to make a team better

When we started our league there was 4 teams that started witha low FF and a
good team, and one that started with 9 FF and a team that was somewhat lagging
behind the others. Now we've all played around 30ish games and Mr High FF has
a TR of 78 and a FF of 0 (It should be about -10ish) and the rest at about
250ish points

Perhaps its a league thing, and you have to go with the flow, ours was a low
FF starting league, and the high FF team plumeted, where as your teams seem to
have the opposite situation.

Ben

Alec Habig

unread,
Jun 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/7/95
to
B.D. Redmond <gen...@leeds.ac.uk> wrote:
>This is probably because High FF starting teams aren't as good as low FF
>starting teams due to the fact that they get beaten a lot and so can't afford
>the extra rerolls

Given - starting high FF teams are not as good as a low FF team.

How much worse? About 1 re-roll or 1 lineman worse (or an apothecary, but I
always buy one of those regardless, for the same reason as I buy FF).

But you're missing the point. If I have a high FF, I *always* get more money.
No matter who I play. Every match. That's 20-30 K more, garunteed.

So the FF pays for itself after a few matches, and from there on out is pure
profit (in addition to the small chance each match that the kickoff table
itself will help me win a game or two).

Winning a match gives you 10K extra. Say buying that extra re-roll instead of
the FF allows you to win 2/3 of the time instead of 1/2 (which is highly
optimistic). That's an average of 6K per match at best.

So while my team is slightly worse off at start, over the long haul it improves
faster than your low FF team. After the first few matches they are equal,
so the small edge on winning you had at first only lasts a few matches, making
the high FF team better all around after that.

sonny hays-eberts

unread,
Jun 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/7/95
to
Redmond) wrote:

> >the point that you seemed to miss is that a starting team with low ff will
> >average 30-40k per game, maxing at 70k and maybe even only getting 10k.
>
> How can you MAX when the amount of money you win depens on your opponents FF
> as well. I think the effective MAX is a +7 (+6 from FF +1 for winning)
> therefore the max is 130K

yes, but if you have a low ff, regardless of your opponents, you're not
going to get that +6 on the gate from ff. it takes about 18-20 ff combined
to get there.

> >my high ff teams don't carry other low ff teams. it's a consideration in
> >who i play when given the choice. and short of tournaments, you *do* get a
> >choice in who you play.
>
> If you're going to be unsporting because someone else has bought a better
> starting team than you then what can I say.

unsporting? do you consider a starting wood elf team that refuses to play a
chaos or orc team unsporting? i consider it stupid.

i don't consider these low ff teams to be any *better*. it's simply not
advantageous to play them. why should i give these teams the benefit of my
higher ff? why should i sacrifice earnings potential and carry another
coach? sure, my low ff teams love to play high ff teams; more money for me.



> >winning gets you an extra 10k and a +1 on your ff roll. it's not winning
> >that makes all the difference; it's keeping players alive, developing
> >skills and adding players to your roster that makes the real difference.
> >i've lost games 2-1 on the scoreboard, yet won 5-2 when all the crosses are
> >put in the ground, if you know what i mean.
>
> This is an argument I can relate to, being a chaos coach. but FF Very rarely
> prevents your players from dying if you have a hard team (Choas, Orcs, Dwarves
> or Undead). Passing teams are more likely to make up XP from having more
> touchdowns and completions than a hitting team.
> If we look at the above example, (I'm presuming that the score is included in
> the 5-2, so its 4-0 on the casuaties)
> You Them
> 1 TD = 3 2 TD = 6
> 4 Cas = 8 (assume 1 or 2 comps per TD)
> 3 Comp = 3
> (Assume an interception if you only
> managed to core 1)
> 1 Int = 2
>
> Total = 11 =11

yes, *but* at least anecdotally, we have many more games with 2+ tds than
4+ casualties.

also, read closely. the final score was 2-1, the *deaths* were 5 and 2. the
exact cas count was more like 7(5)-4(2). admittidley that was treemen vs.
goblins, so it's hardly a prime example. many of those deaths were by
deeproot, so those spp were wasted.

> Tied! this is how the game tries to balance itself out between passing and
> hitting teams, it may not be precisely correct for the said game, but that was
> just to illustrate the point that its winning that will make the difference by
> having money increased and FF increased, If you loose then your FF is pretty
> likely to drop, and if you win pretty likely to increase, so after 3 or 4
> games, they're pobably at a similar level anyway
>
> >now, playing for tournament money, *that's* when winning makes
> the real>difference.
>
> Good point, so spend more money on your team and win more games and be better
> when it comes to tournament time so that you can beat all the weedy high ff
> teams

well, as i've said before, our higher ff teams have much deeper rosters
than those that don't, with one or two exceptions. it *may* be a handicap
for the first game (and i find that arguable), but certainly not in the
long run.



>
> >look at what an 11 or 12 is on the kickoff table. then ask yourself if you
> >want to spot somebody 8 or 9 fan factor points. given that most games
> >involve about four kickoffs (and up to 8 i've seen), that means you'll get
> >an 11 or 12 about once every 3 games. i've seen it multiple times in the
> >same game.
>
> an 11 is thrown rock? Usually ending up with 1 player stunned unless you're
> really unlucky. Pitch invasion can be quite damaging, but how often does it
> happen, Its never happened against me, and I only knowof one team in the
> league who it has happened to, and it lost them the game. But what can you do
> against something this rare? FF is really not worth the money just to avoid
> this.

well, i've seen *2* pitch invasions in a single game. thrown rock and pitch
invasion in a game, and also pitch invasion plus riot. as somebody pointed
out a while back, throw out the odds during a game.

a thrown rock is a ko or worse on 8+. that's a slightly less than 50%
chance and it's not rerollable. i wouldn't consider that really unlucky,
myself.


> >also, i've only seen teams with up to four re-rolls (five with leader).
> >they'd all take the extra.
>
> This is probably because High FF starting teams aren't as good as low FF
> starting teams due to the fact that they get beaten a lot and so can't afford
> the extra rerolls

my direct experience has been that high ff teams simply end up with much
more cash than low ff teams. the teams that get beaten up a lot are based
on either low av, poor coaching or simply bad luck. ff has little to do
with it, other than influencing the kickoff table.



> >and for those rare teams with 8 already, i've only got three things to say-
> >1. master chefs
>
> Well we all know how scary a halfling team is, especially to a chaos team

maybe. my orc team has been hammered by them. go ahead and laugh. then play
an entire game with no re-rolls and against four treemen. a good coach can
field an effective halfling team. some folks on the b-bowl list have
noticed the same thing, so i don't feel alone on this one.



> >2. bad habits
>
> Extra training is about twice as common in the Spec Play card decks

yep. but in the course of play here, they've showed up evenly. and you know
what, my low ff teams have not had the availible money to *buy* the extra
roll, they've had to burn it as a one-shot reroll.



>
> >3. blitz bonus turn
>
> I fail to see how this affects the number of rerolls a team has. But I do
> agree that it can be damaging, but if the first guy you move gets a 1 or a
> skull, and you've got no rerolls then the blitz is wasted

it means if you have 8 rerolls *and* you get a blitz, you've got a chance
to use 9 in a half. look at result #10 on the kickoff table. i think you
are assuming the blitzkrieg card (take a 2nd blitz on a team turn), while
i'm talking about taking an additional, bonus team turn.



> >as far as getting the boot into a team-try dirty player. my dark elves have
> >refined the art of agre killing as to make it easy. ok, easy in comparison.
> >:)
>
> In comparisson, exactly. I'd like to see you try and take down Morg with a
> couple of Chaos Warrior guardsmen on him, one with a ST of 5

ok, so the guardsmen have to go first. :) if not, you're going to be
keeping three players together to deal with two. fine, i'll take that.



> >dauntless+block plus assist downs ogre. dirty player fouls. it doesn't take
> >long to cart them off. mighty blow is a little less painful, but if you
> >think fouls without being caught are nothing to sneeze at, your league must
> >play awfully nice. most of the time my big guys are fouled there's enough
> >assists to make the armor roll on a 4+. toss in that +2 on the injury roll
> >and you're looking at badly hurt or worse almost 50% of the time (natural
> >8+ on dice).
>
> Dauntless works on an Ogre less than just over 50% of the time, and if it
> fails you still have to block, its riskier than a one dice block when you both
> have block, but no dodge

yep. but if you have a re-roll, and i almost always do when i try this
manuever, it works much more than just over 50%.

it's not a surefire panacea. it is however a useful strategy for dealing
with big uns. one problem with have 140,000 gps invested in one player
rather than two or three is that when he dies, it really, *really* hurts.

if you've got a better way, as an elf coach i'm interested. my dark elves
find big uns to be a problem, simply not an insurmountable one. i'd imagine
dwarves feel the same way.

>
> >i've gotten 'get the ref' in conjunction with grudge match. it should make
> >*any* team tremble, regardless of differences in team ratings.
>
> Yet again a very rare combo that I have no knowlege of anyone actually
> getting. You can't try and justify FF by stating all these obscure
> combinations that hardly ever occur.

no, the simplest justification is that a high ff directly correlates to
money. money means more players. anything else is a bonus, and there *are*
a lot of powerful bonus incentives for it.

a low starting ff may net you one extra player. over the course of your
first four games a higher starting should more than pay for itself.

> >> On the kick offs read above, possibly the "Get the ref" could be damaging for
> >> elf teams, but surely, by the time you've got this much fanfactor your team
> >> has found a few magic helmets.
>
> >?? i've played 45 league games. magic helmet has surfaced *once*.
>
> I think there's 2 cards in the deck of 50, so you were a bit unlucky. I've
> played 31 games with my chaos team, and 12 with my undead, and have a total of
> 3

there is *1* (out of 27) [you really should look and count instead of
making it up, it weakens your position if the verifiable facts are way out
of line, what about the rest of your argument?], i am positive. and you can
only take 1 per game. so with 3 selections out of 43 picks, you're hardly
one to be chastising anybody about combinations that hardly occur. :)

>
> >'is it a td' on the other hand... :)
>
> theres 3 in a deck of about 100, now I'm not a maths student, but an obvious
> statistical advantage for the helmet. You still get the XP for the TD anyway,
> so your player doen't suffer

no, count again. there is *1* of these as well, out of 47. have you guys a)
made up your own deck or b) gotten updates other than death zone? and, no,
the player on the receiving end of this card 'is it a td', if *executed
successfully* does *not* get spp, as no td is scored, and will almost
certianly be knocked off the pitch. it's not a great card, i simply offer
up that it's is *that* card that surfaces frequently here. some other
league mentioned they have frequent problems with dogs on the field. every
league must have something similar, most of us aren't lucky enough to have
it be magic helmet.


> >> >High FF is vital in BB.
> >>
> >> Possibly. But having agood team is more vital, and more fun!!!!
>
> >having a high ff directly contributes to making a team much better. my
> >teams with low ffs have struggled to replace players or add extras except
> >for the orc team lucky enough to get a 'that boys got talent' card. those
> >that started at 7, 8 or 9 almost all have full rosters now.
>
> I'll say it once , I'll say it a thousand times. You can't use excuses of
> relying on SP cards to make a team better

ok, but you seem to be agreeing with my point here. are you waffling? the
only low ff teams i've seen develop strong rosters have had to rely on that
boy's got talent or special offer cards.

the ones that begin with high ff can add roster depth without any help.

>
> When we started our league there was 4 teams that started witha low FF and a
> good team, and one that started with 9 FF and a team that was somewhat lagging
> behind the others. Now we've all played around 30ish games and Mr High FF has
> a TR of 78 and a FF of 0 (It should be about -10ish) and the rest at about
> 250ish points
>
> Perhaps its a league thing, and you have to go with the flow, ours was a low
> FF starting league, and the high FF team plumeted, where as your teams seem to
> have the opposite situation.

what can i say? our league is a direct counterexample. the only teams that
have folded have all had low ff and could not afford to replace killed
players.
maybe we have bloodthirsty players, only chet's examples seem to be as
brutal as our games. :)

the most crucial game i think for any team is generally the first one. get
hammered hard enough and you may never recover. i still think high ff teams
have slight edge here, as with luck they may afford to replace two deaths.
a low ff team may not even get to replace one.

Signs of Chaos

unread,
Jun 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/7/95
to
In article <3r4is0$8...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
aha...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig) writes:
>B.D. Redmond <gen...@leeds.ac.uk> wrote:

>>This is probably because High FF starting teams aren't as good as low FF
>>starting teams due to the fact that they get beaten a lot and so can't afford
>>the extra rerolls

>Given - starting high FF teams are not as good as a low FF team.


>How much worse? About 1 re-roll or 1 lineman worse (or an apothecary, but I
>always buy one of those regardless, for the same reason as I buy FF).

Actually, let's put this in a perspective I believe Mr. Redmond has missed:

The difference isn't a reroll. It isn't a Lineman, nor is it an Apothecary.
The difference, most likely, in my Orc team with 7 FF vs his Orc team with
1 (or 4) FF is that he has 1 more - maybe 2 more, if the FF is *vastly*
different - position players. In their place, I have Linemen.

1 Blitzer for a Lineman. Maybe a Black Orc for another Lineman. Vs my 3 FF.
Maybe 6. Without a doubt, I am in better shape, and the Blitzer or Black Orc
is *not* quite the winning edge, IMO, as Mr. Redmond seems to think it is.

>So while my team is slightly worse off at start, over the long haul it improves
>faster than your low FF team. After the first few matches they are equal,
>so the small edge on winning you had at first only lasts a few matches, making
>the high FF team better all around after that.

Well stated. After a quick few games, the higher FF team has the better depth.
Win or lose. And a coach prepared to play with a Lineman or two in place of
a pair of Black Orcs can probably handle himself well enough to win games with
'em.

-=-Chet Zeshonski


Patrik P}fvelsson

unread,
Jun 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/7/95
to
In article <3r50t2$i...@azure.acsu.buffalo.edu>,

Signs of Chaos <v073...@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu> wrote:
>In article <3r4is0$8...@usenet.ucs.indiana.edu>,
> aha...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu (Alec Habig) writes:
>>B.D. Redmond <gen...@leeds.ac.uk> wrote:
>
:::This is probably because High FF starting teams aren't as good as low FF
:::starting teams due to the fact that they get beaten a lot and so can't afford
:::the extra rerolls
:
::Given - starting high FF teams are not as good as a low FF team.

::How much worse? About 1 re-roll or 1 lineman worse (or an apothecary, but I
::always buy one of those regardless, for the same reason as I buy FF).
:
:Actually, let's put this in a perspective I believe Mr. Redmond has missed:
:
:The difference isn't a reroll. It isn't a Lineman, nor is it an Apothecary.
:The difference, most likely, in my Orc team with 7 FF vs his Orc team with
:1 (or 4) FF is that he has 1 more - maybe 2 more, if the FF is *vastly*
:different - position players. In their place, I have Linemen.
:
:1 Blitzer for a Lineman. Maybe a Black Orc for another Lineman. Vs my 3 FF.
:Maybe 6. Without a doubt, I am in better shape, and the Blitzer or Black Orc
:is *not* quite the winning edge, IMO, as Mr. Redmond seems to think it is.
:
::So while my team is slightly worse off at start, over the long haul it improves
::faster than your low FF team. After the first few matches they are equal,
::so the small edge on winning you had at first only lasts a few matches, making
::the high FF team better all around after that.
:
:Well stated. After a quick few games, the higher FF team has the better depth.
:Win or lose. And a coach prepared to play with a Lineman or two in place of
:a pair of Black Orcs can probably handle himself well enough to win games with
:'em.
:
:-=-Chet Zeshonski
:

Obviously, there are two different strategies to become successful:

A. *Buy lower FF
*Add another player to your roster
or upgrade Linemen to position players

This team hopes to use it's advantages early in the league,
to dominate the teams with higher FF and somewhat weaker
rosters. If successful, the team will become strong while
the other teams fail to advance. If unsuccessful (not gained
any noticable advantages), the team will have less strength
than the others (due to low match winnings) and a lower FF.


B. *Buy high FF
*Have a slightly weaker roster in the beginning.

This team hopes to play it's first 5-6 games without bigger
losses than the low FF teams. If successful, the team will
be stronger than the others (thanks to big match winnings)
as the others and with a higher FF. If unsuccessful, the
team will suffer from its first games, end up with a weak
roster and equal FF with the others.


Personally, I chose -B- when I made my Dark Elf team. My rationale
behind this was, that FF couldn't be bought later. I also thought
my starter roster wouldn't be significantly weakened by a few extra
FF. Also, the extra FF could make an 10k, which in turn could be
exactly what I needed to buy another player. As Dark Elves are
expensive, my choice was even more justified.

Of course, I can see that others may have other thoughts about this.
Especially a power team like Chaos. One or two extra C. Warriors
instead of Beastmen in the early games can make a big difference.

When you buy FF, think about what will be most useful to you.
Upgrading a lineman to a second catcher, may not be as valuable
as upgrading from Beastman to C. Warrior. Will you be able to
play your team well without special players? Do you really need
13 players on your roster? Will you survive starting with 11
players (although skilful) ?

Think about it. Do what fits yourself best!

/Patrik.

sonny hays-eberts

unread,
Jun 7, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/7/95
to
In article <3r545o$2...@nyheter.chalmers.se>, d2pa...@dtek.chalmers.se
(Patrik P}fvelsson) wrote:


[gesnippt]

> Think about it. Do what fits yourself best!

sheesh, patrik. i'm not sure usenet is ready for rational ombudsman-like
dialog.
:):)

no, really, you're right. each team is different. even between some races
some coaches may prefer an agressive strategy (choosing mighty blow for
your strength skill advance) vs. conservative (taking guard instead).

Psycho

unread,
Jun 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/8/95
to
Any ideas on the "perfect" starting wood elf team, or any starting wood elf
team for that matter? As for fan factor, I found out the hard way that
starting with a high fan factor is MUCH better than the so-called "better"
players you can get with the extra cash. Let's say that you win the first
5 games because of the "better" players. My high fanfactor weither I win
or lose will give me about 100,000 extra as opposed to your 50,000.
--
Aaron "Psycho" Thies | Optimus Design Systems
th...@acsu.buffalo.edu | opti...@aol.com (716)881-4525
opt...@io.com | opt...@genie.geis.com Phone/Fax
===================================================================
Optimus Design Systems (ODS) Internet Representative
====================================================
CIT Student Consultant | Card Auctioneer
CS Major | Data Broker
=========================================
URLs: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~thies/
http://www.io.com/~optimus (ODS)

Peter M White

unread,
Jun 8, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/8/95
to
d2pa...@dtek.chalmers.se (Patrik P}fvelsson) writes:

>Obviously, there are two different strategies to become successful:

> B. *Buy high FF


> *Have a slightly weaker roster in the beginning.

> This team hopes to play it's first 5-6 games without bigger
> losses than the low FF teams. If successful, the team will
> be stronger than the others (thanks to big match winnings)
> as the others and with a higher FF. If unsuccessful, the
> team will suffer from its first games, end up with a weak
> roster and equal FF with the others.

Some have mentioned it before, but tI would like to emphasize that there
is a very significant compounding effect _if one carefully selects your
early opponents_. If all the high FF teams play their first few matches
against each other and the low FF teams play amongst themselves, the high
FF teams will be superior within only a few games. 5+5 FF will make
for 20-30k more than 1+1 FF, if I remember the chart right. Upgrading
a lineman initially, will pale in comparison with outright buying an
extra player 3 games later.

--Peter
p-w...@uiuc.edu

Anders Gabrielsson

unread,
Jun 16, 1995, 3:00:00 AM6/16/95
to
Psycho (th...@acsu.buffalo.edu) wrote:
: Any ideas on the "perfect" starting wood elf team, or any starting wood elf
: team for that matter?

Not a perfect starting team by a long shot, but _my_ starting team (as well
as I can remember it):

1 Thrower
2 Wardancers
8 Linemen

1 Apothecary
8 FF (or possibly 7)

The first game one of the Wardancers was killed. :( But I've managed to win
all but two out of nine or ten games, many against better teams, though
possibly not better players. (The two games I lost was against a dwarven team
and the orcs I played right after.)

Anders

kratom aka

unread,
Dec 6, 2021, 3:58:34 AM12/6/21
to
TRUSTED BLESSED KRATOM
AKA ( ANUGERAH KRATOM AMANAH, LLC )

Hello mam/sir. Kind Regards,
We are a supplier of KRATOM Product with fine quality.
we’re ready to send you our product,
KRATOM Do you know ?,
We have the limited offer in this end year because we are OFF 50%

and if you interested in joining us as a PARTNER
please contact us in brochure for more information,
let me know what you think
please check your attachment

OUR BROCHURE AND COMPANY PROFILE VIDEOS
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1da87lq9-euhbeYdn3jPfptmeWk6upw4F?usp=sharing

OUR COMPANY PROFILE VIDEOS :
https://youtu.be/LMMtF0PxN0Q
https://youtu.be/LYqzC8Gk4NM
https://youtu.be/7WfKm68_Liw

Trusted Blessed Kratom Tbk

unread,
Jan 10, 2022, 4:38:31 AMJan 10
to
TRUSTED BLESSED KRATOM Tbk

The best product at an affordable price.
Why choose our product?

1. Hygienic drying process produces reliable quality
2. Fresh flour processing and distinctive aroma are produced from our kratom plantation.

TASTE AND QUALITY IS THE MAIN FOCUS WE ALWAYS KEEP ON FOR OUR PARTNERS AND CUSTOMERS DURING THIS.

For More Information :
Harland Wijaya - Head Of Sales & Marketing

Email :
sa...@trustedblessedkratom.com
harland.w...@gmail.com

Website : www.trustedblessedkratom.com

Kratom Catalogue :
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1da87lq9-euhbeYdn3jPfptmeWk6upw4F?usp=sharing

Our Kratom VIdeo :
1. https://youtu.be/LMMtF0PxN0Q

2. https://youtu.be/LYqzC8Gk4NM

3. https://youtu.be/7WfKm68_Liw

Thank You and Have A Nice Day
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages