10 newbie Kingmaker questions
Todd Gabel
1. What's the optimum number of players for this game?
2. When it says I can't combine road and normal movement, does that stop
me from moving on roads with my 5 points? In essense, do the unfriendly
cities on the road hinder road and regular movement? In our first try at
it, we were moving through cities/roads up to 5 spaces if we didn't feel
like attacking them.
3. Are ships lost when your noble dies? (ie. is that considered an "award")
4. If on an siege attack, a 'free move' or 'writ' card etc are drawn, is
another one drawn to see if a noble dies? Is this the same in the open?
Also, is attacking a neutral city just a matter of getting more than
100, 200 or 300 troop strength? (according to type)
5. Why would a player call off a siege prior to drawing a card? Does it
mean, by default, that if he can siege the castle, he automatically wins?
6. Does he who calls parliament have to give chancery cards to other
players' nobles in case he can't exhaust them on his own? Can a noble
from another player attend the parliament if not summoned? And what's
the strategy behind parliament.. just getting cards and moving nobles
around (or forcing others through writs)?
7. How do you obtain event cards.. just through 'combat'??
8. When a certain office gives 250 troops "within 2 spaces of london",
does that included diagonal.. and really mean "up to and including 2
spaces away" from London?
9. What are the typical, tournament optional rules used? The Parliament
system there looks much more interesting. Having a king in the basic
game doesnt seem to be that big of an advantage.
10. Is the advanced form of the game more commonly played -- any insight
into the differences (in terms of strategy, etc) would be most appreciated.
Thanks!!
Mark A. Biggar
> Pardon if these questions are very straightforward. In the basic game:
>
> 1. What's the optimum number of players for this game?
4-7
> 2. When it says I can't combine road and normal movement, does that stop
> me from moving on roads with my 5 points? In essense, do the unfriendly
> cities on the road hinder road and regular movement? In our first try at
> it, we were moving through cities/roads up to 5 spaces if we didn't feel
> like attacking them.
For each of your nobels, either all it movement is road movement (as far
as it can go) or all is off-road movement (of upto 5 spaces). If doing
road movement, you may not move past unfriendly cities or castles with
out the controllers permission. Note that if a nobel moves twice or
more in a turn using free move cards then each of those movements can be
either road or non-raod movement.
> 3. Are ships lost when your noble dies? (ie. is that considered an "award")
yes
> 4. If on an siege attack, a 'free move' or 'writ' card etc are drawn, is
> another one drawn to see if a noble dies? Is this the same in the open?
> Also, is attacking a neutral city just a matter of getting more than
> 100, 200 or 300 troop strength? (according to type)
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes
> 5. Why would a player call off a siege prior to drawing a card? Does it
> mean, by default, that if he can siege the castle, he automatically wins?
In the basic game, a "bad weather" will delay a seige until the next
turn. On that next turn he could break off the siege. Note that most
tournment play uses the "two turn siege" rule, where you always wait a
turn to resolve the siege and the besieged force gets a chance to sally
and fight in the open instead.
> 6. Does he who calls parliament have to give chancery cards to other
> players' nobles in case he can't exhaust them on his own? Can a noble
> from another player attend the parliament if not summoned? And what's
> the strategy behind parliament.. just getting cards and moving nobles
> around (or forcing others through writs)?
In the basic game parlement all drawn cards must be awarded. Any nobel
can attend (baring being overseas with no boats), it just that the
writted nobel MUST attand. Yeah all that. Note that the advanced
Parliment is much more complicated that that.
> 7. How do you obtain event cards.. just through 'combat'??
An event card is drawn and resolved at teh beginning of each players
turn.
> 8. When a certain office gives 250 troops "within 2 spaces of london",
> does that included diagonal.. and really mean "up to and including 2
> spaces away" from London?
It mean that of you can get there by starting in london and moving two
spaces.
> 9. What are the typical, tournament optional rules used? The Parliament
> system there looks much more interesting. Having a king in the basic
> game doesnt seem to be that big of an advantage.
Tournament play is almost always: All basic, optional and advanced rules
except the advanced battle rules. Note that this means rolling on the
table to see which nobles die in combat instead of drawing cards, i.e.,
you flip a card to see who won and then instead of the nobels listed
dying, each nobel that participated rolls on the table to see if he
die. Also some tournaments use the "two turn siege" rule and the
"shuffle the event deck on embassies" rule. There is a suggested
set of tournament rules in the Kingmaker section on Boardgamegeek:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com
> 10. Is the advanced form of the game more commonly played -- any insight
> into the differences (in terms of strategy, etc) would be most appreciated.
Most players move on to the advanced rules (excpet the advanced battle
rules) fairly quickly.
Todd Gabel
Btw.. if you capture the original King of England.. do you have to
re-coronate him?
Craftybstd
>Thanks!
>
>Btw.. if you capture the original King of England.. do you have to
>re-coronate him?
Nope - Henry already has a crown.
Russ Craft
Kari Vanhanen
1. Does the player get the towns named on offices and titles
2. How should it be played if a noble is summoned into a neutral or
unfriendly town etc.
3. Can ships fight on sea while not carrying any noble (Advanced rule).
"Mark A. Biggar" <ma...@biggar.org> wrote in message
news:h1DZb.371969$na.566139@attbi_s04...
Windopaene
> I also have couple of questions about kingmaker.
> 1. Does the player get the towns named on offices and titles
Yes.
> 2. How should it be played if a noble is summoned into a neutral or
> unfriendly town etc.
Can't recall, but I'm pretty sure it is in the rules somewhere, as I do
recall the question.
> 3. Can ships fight on sea while not carrying any noble (Advanced rule).
>
That I don't know at all.
Christian Killoran
> I also have couple of questions about kingmaker.
Disclaimer: The rules to Kingmaker, including expansions, etc., may be the
poorest rules set in gaming history. My responses are based on a sort of
"common law" established at some tournaments I have attended.
> 1. Does the player get the towns named on offices and titles
Yes. Place control markers on those locations and keep them there as long
as you hold the office or title. You get to count their votes in commons.
> 2. How should it be played if a noble is summoned into a neutral or
> unfriendly town etc.
The noble moves to the space containing the unfriendly town, but remains
outside the walls. So he is subject to attacks and ambushes, but doesn't
have to eat the ratsicle if that town's plague card is drawn.
> 3. Can ships fight on sea while not carrying any noble (Advanced rule).
Yes. Ships can move, blockade, and fight on their own. I honestly don't
remember if there are any restrictions on who gets the new ship card if an
enemy ship is captured as a result of the battle.
Christian Killoran
Josh Adelson
"Christian Killoran" <mrx...@earthlink.net> wrote
> Yes. Ships can move, blockade, and fight on their own. I honestly don't
> remember if there are any restrictions on who gets the new ship card if an
> enemy ship is captured as a result of the battle.
The WBC pages are always reasonable references for how such things can be
handled. I don't play this particular game much, and never with the
advanced rules, but here's one GM's take on sea combat:
http://www.boardgamers.org/yearbkex/kgmpge.htm
(You'll have to skip down a ways to get to the Advanced Rules 'Combat at
Sea' section!)
Nick Roworth
>Kari Vanhanen wrote:
>
>
>>I also have couple of questions about kingmaker.
>>
>>
>
>Disclaimer: The rules to Kingmaker, including expansions, etc., may be the
>poorest rules set in gaming history. My responses are based on a sort of
>"common law" established at some tournaments I have attended.
>
>
>
>>1. Does the player get the towns named on offices and titles
>>
>>
>
>Yes. Place control markers on those locations and keep them there as long
>as you hold the office or title. You get to count their votes in commons.
>
>
The town belongs to the faction.
>
>
>>2. How should it be played if a noble is summoned into a neutral or
>>unfriendly town etc.
>>
>>
>
>The noble moves to the space containing the unfriendly town, but remains
>outside the walls. So he is subject to attacks and ambushes, but doesn't
>have to eat the ratsicle if that town's plague card is drawn.
>
>
Rubbish! He is in the town (or city), and that plague card will be drawn!
John David Galt
>>> 2. When it says I can't combine road and normal movement, does that stop
>>> me from moving on roads with my 5 points? In essense, do the unfriendly
>>> cities on the road hinder road and regular movement? In our first try at
>>> it, we were moving through cities/roads up to 5 spaces if we didn't feel
>>> like attacking them.
> "Mark A. Biggar" <ma...@biggar.org> wrote
>> For each of your nobels, either all it movement is road movement (as far
>> as it can go) or all is off-road movement (of upto 5 spaces). If doing
>> road movement, you may not move past unfriendly cities or castles with
>> out the controllers permission. Note that if a nobel moves twice or
>> more in a turn using free move cards then each of those movements can be
>> either road or non-raod movement.
More to the point: Yes, part of a "non-road move" may follow the road, but
the total distance of the move is limited to 5 spaces, just as if the road
weren't there.
>>> 3. Are ships lost when your noble dies? (ie. is that considered an
>>> "award")
>> yes
Yes in the regular game (whether basic, optional, or advanced). When
playing the variant (see below) that allows sea combat, ships are subject
to the same two categories of ownership as towns and castles (see below).
>>> 4. If on an siege attack, a 'free move' or 'writ' card etc are drawn, is
>>> another one drawn to see if a noble dies? Is this the same in the open?
>>> Also, is attacking a neutral city just a matter of getting more than
>>> 100, 200 or 300 troop strength? (according to type)
>> Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes
Yes to all of these (assuming basic combat rules). When drawing for a
battle result, if you get any card that doesn't show a battle result, you
discard it and draw again. Exceptions:
* Any "keeper" cards (see question 7 below) are kept by the attacker.
* As a special case, the "Vacillating Noble" event card is resolved as
an event, immediately, if drawn while resolving a battle. After
determining which noble goes home or changes sides, refigure the odds and
draw again for a battle result. Note that the original defender can win,
even under the basic combat rules, if his has become the larger force.
>>> 7. How do you obtain event cards.. just through 'combat'??
>> An event card is drawn and resolved at teh beginning of each players
>> turn.
But the draw is made secretly in case it's something that the drawing
player can keep. (In the standard game there are three "keeper" cards:
All players can keep Writ and Free Move cards, and a player who already
has the Chancellor of England in play can keep "Parliament may be
summoned by the Chancellor." The variant event deck also has Refuge
cards which any player can keep.)
Kari Vanhanen wrote:
> I also have couple of questions about kingmaker.
> 1. Does the player get the towns named on offices and titles
This is one that a lot of people screw up.
There are two different ways you can own a town or castle, depending on how
you got it.
1) One of your nobles has it on his card, or a crown card that has been
played on him. This means the town or castle is his personal property, and
is lost when he dies or loses the card that gave it to him.
2) You've taken it by force. This means the town or castle now belongs
to your whole faction (not a particular noble). For the remainder of the
game, the ownership of that town or castle can change hands only by force,
and is unaffected by who holds the card (if any) which lists that location.
The only exceptions to this dichotomy are open towns and unfortified towns.
Open towns can only be owned by entire factions (because they do not appear
on crown cards), and only so long as the faction keeps troops in the open
town. Unfortified towns cannot be owned at all; they have no walls, so
there is no such thing as being inside them. They are just names given to
locations in the open.
Control markers are only supposed to be placed on towns and castles owned
by your whole faction, NOT those owned by an individual noble. If you
place a control marker on a location owned by a specific noble, you lose
the ability to keep track of the important distinction between the two
types of ownership.
The difference is especially important for towns and castles owned by the
two Plantagenet nobles. Whenever the senior heir in a royal line changes
hands (whether because he is captured, or because he dies and another
player already holds the next-in-line), the corresponding Plantagenet
noble changes allegiance and takes his personal property with him to his
new faction. (He does NOT teleport to one of his starting castles,
though; the Plantagenets have to follow the rules of normal movement,
except when one of them dies and gets replaced by an heir.)
> 2. How should it be played if a noble is summoned into a neutral or
> unfriendly town etc.
First off, a noble can only be summoned anywhere if he is on the English
"mainland". If he's in Scotland, Ireland, the Continent, Calais, a small
island, or at sea, nothing happens. Otherwise:
If a card summons a noble to an unfriendly location (a town or castle
with another player's forces inside, even if it's only the garrison that
comes with the town), the noble appears outside the location, in the same
space but outside the walls.
If a card summons a noble to an unowned town or city with no force inside
(or only the garrison), the noble is placed inside. His faction then owns
the location as if they'd taken it by force (category 2).
Note that there are two other ways a noble may "have to move" to a location
his side does not control:
* If the noble first appears (or reappears as an heir after death) in a
castle that some other faction has taken by force, he is placed outside the
castle, in the same space.
* If "Storms at Sea" force a ship (with or without nobles aboard) into a
neutral or hostile city, and the fleet isn't strong enough to besiege it.
In this case the ships, and everyone aboard, are stuck there as hostages
until the owner of the city lets him leave, or until the player or an ally
manages to take control of the city (either by Crown card or by bringing
more troops). A neutral city will never let hostages go.
> 3. Can ships fight on sea while not carrying any noble (Advanced rule).
I assume this refers to "New Optional Rule 4" on the rule sheet that comes
with the variant event card set, since that is the only way that Kingmaker
has sea combat at all. Under that rule, the answer is yes; the strength of
a ship is determined by its capacity, whether any nobles are aboard or not.
One can only assume that the basic combat rules must be used for all sea
combat, since there are no counters to represent sailors in a battle line.
Nick Wedd
When there is a coronation, all players must refill their glasses,
stand, and drink a toast to the new monarch.
Nick
--
Nick Wedd ni...@maproom.co.uk
Kari Vanhanen
> > 2. How should it be played if a noble is summoned into a neutral or
> > unfriendly town etc.
>
> If a card summons a noble to an unowned town or city with no force inside
> (or only the garrison), the noble is placed inside. His faction then owns
> the location as if they'd taken it by force (category 2).
Doesn't the faction have fight against the garrison at all?
What if summoned noble doesn't have enough troops to besiege the town?
And couple questions about some cards.
Does the card have effect on all players or just on player who drew card
1. "Mercenaries go home"
2. "Mercenary strife" (2nd expansion cards)
3. "Mutiny" (2nd expansion cards)
4. "Assasination" (2nd expansion cards)
Mark A. Biggar
> And couple questions about some cards.
> Does the card have effect on all players or just on player who drew card
> 1. "Mercenaries go home"
> 2. "Mercenary strife" (2nd expansion cards)
These effect all factions.
> 3. "Mutiny" (2nd expansion cards)
These effect the boat listed on the card independent of whose turn it is
or who owns the boat.
> 4. "Assasination" (2nd expansion cards)
This kills the nobel on the next card drawn independent of turn.
Kari Vanhanen
"Mark A. Biggar" <ma...@biggar.org> wrote in message
news:0ex%b.68226$4o.87649@attbi_s52...
Thanks for all who bothered to answer my questions
Kari Vanhanen
> > > 2. How should it be played if a noble is summoned into a neutral or
> > > unfriendly town etc.
> >
> John David Galt wrote:
> > If a card summons a noble to an unowned town or city with no force
inside
> > (or only the garrison), the noble is placed inside. His faction then
owns
> > the location as if they'd taken it by force (category 2).
What is this, is it really so and what means (category 2)?
1.Doesn't the faction have fight against the garrison at all?
2.What if summoned noble doesn't have enough troops to besiege the town?
3.What if Nobles are besieging a town (2 turn siege) and next player draws a
card which summons a noble from besieging force, is the siege lifted
immediatly (nobles inside can leave the town) or on the turn of besieging
faction (nobles inside cannot leave the town)?
John David Galt
>>> unfriendly town etc.
> John David Galt wrote:
>> If a card summons a noble to an unowned town or city with no force inside
>> (or only the garrison), the noble is placed inside. His faction then owns
>> the location as if they'd taken it by force (category 2).
Kari Vanhanen wrote:
> Doesn't the faction have fight against the garrison at all?
> What if summoned noble doesn't have enough troops to besiege the town?
He's been summoned by the town council, to help them defeat an invasion
(not represented in the game). Why should he then have to fight them?
It wouldn't make sense.
> And couple questions about some cards.
> Does the card have effect on all players or just on player who drew card
> 1. "Mercenaries go home"
I've always played this as affecting all players who have the specified
type of mercenaries in play. A mercenary card still in your hand is
unaffected. (The French Foot Soldiers, and the Scottish Mercenary card
that the expansion set tells you to make, don't have any "goes home"
cards but they don't need them, since you only get to use each of those
in one battle anyway. Then they automatically go home.)
> 2. "Mercenary strife" (2nd expansion cards)
> 3. "Mutiny" (2nd expansion cards)
> 4. "Assasination" (2nd expansion cards)
I've never heard of a second expansion card set, and doubt it is official.
John David Galt
>
> > > > 2. How should it be played if a noble is summoned into a neutral or
> > > > unfriendly town etc.
> > >
> > John David Galt wrote:
> > > If a card summons a noble to an unowned town or city with no force
> inside
> > > (or only the garrison), the noble is placed inside. His faction then
> owns
> > > the location as if they'd taken it by force (category 2).
>
> What is this, is it really so and what means (category 2)?
It's owned by the whole faction, not by a single noble, so loss of a card
can't cause the faction to lose the town.
> 3.What if Nobles are besieging a town (2 turn siege) and next player draws a
> card which summons a noble from besieging force, is the siege lifted
> immediatly (nobles inside can leave the town) or on the turn of besieging
> faction (nobles inside cannot leave the town)?
If the summons reduces the besieging force to less than the strength of
troops in the town, the siege is lifted immediately. If the besiegers
still have enough force to besiege the town, the siege stays in place.
Don Hessong
> I've never heard of a second expansion card set, and doubt it is official.
It was official. It was published in the General, but not published as a
product. AH intended that people write out the cards on blanks.
http://www.grognard.com/variants/king.txt
Don
--
To e-mail me, send to... DonHesso(at)Rockford(dot)com
David Allsopp
Galt <j...@diogenes.sacramento.ca.us> writes
>Kari Vanhanen wrote:
>>
>> > > > 2. How should it be played if a noble is summoned into a neutral or
>> > > > unfriendly town etc.
>> > >
>> > John David Galt wrote:
>> > > If a card summons a noble to an unowned town or city with no force
>> inside
>> > > (or only the garrison), the noble is placed inside. His faction then
>> owns
>> > > the location as if they'd taken it by force (category 2).
>>
>> What is this, is it really so and what means (category 2)?
>
>It's owned by the whole faction, not by a single noble, so loss of a card
>can't cause the faction to lose the town.
Isn't this in the "this never happens" category? IIRC, all summoning
cards call the summoned title/office/noble to a place that they already
control by virtue of being that title/office/noble.
--
David Allsopp Houston, this is Tranquillity Base.
Remove SPAM to email me The Eagle has landed.
Kari Vanhanen
"David Allsopp" <d...@tqSPAMbase.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:IkgiFyB4DbRAFwg$@tqbase.demon.co.uk...
So Nobles cannot be summoned in neutral cities, but what if someone uses a
"Writ" as commission?
(Not so often happens in our games, but...)
Okay, maybe my question wasn't quite accurate, so I ask another question.
How should it be solved when a town becomes neutral while forces inside town
(townfighting?)? Aspect of Executing of nobles or kicking them out of city?
And how about advanced combat and vacillating alligiance card? Should it be
considered to be used in each encounter affecting nobles in encounter or
affecting all nobles in whole battle formation? And when deciding whether
before forming battle formations should it take effect or should it be
counted as no delay for attack.
And a question maybe a bit off topic (maybe not for newbies), but I'm
looking for Rules for playing Kingmaker as variant where players are playing
with a royal heir counter and gatherings forces or something like that I
know it's mentioned in The General as an article but I couldn't get my hands
on one. So I'm asking is there somewhere to get this article?
Kari Vanhanen
if emailing remove REMOVE from address
kari.v...@REMOVEpp.nic.fi
John David Galt
>>>> What is this, is it really so and what means (category 2)?
>>> It's owned by the whole faction, not by a single noble, so loss of a card
>>> can't cause the faction to lose the town.
>> Isn't this in the "this never happens" category? IIRC, all summoning
>> cards call the summoned title/office/noble to a place that they already
>> control by virtue of being that title/office/noble.
Not quite all. ISTR at least two cards that summon royal heirs to open
towns.
> So Nobles cannot be summoned in neutral cities, but what if someone uses a
> "Writ" as commission?
You mean using a writ to make noble A answer noble B's summons? That is a
house rule which I never use because it creates this problem. At most I
would allow the summonee to substitute another of HIS OWN nobles.
> Okay, maybe my question wasn't quite accurate, so I ask another question.
> How should it be solved when a town becomes neutral while forces inside town
> (townfighting?)? Aspect of Executing of nobles or kicking them out of city?
If a town is owned by a single noble (by card, not combat) and the card is
lost while the town is occupied, that faction still controls the town (as
if by combat) so long as they choose to keep at least some force inside it.
Once they leave it empty, they can't reenter without a fight.
> And how about advanced combat and vacillating alligiance card? Should it be
> considered to be used in each encounter affecting nobles in encounter or
> affecting all nobles in whole battle formation? And when deciding whether
> before forming battle formations should it take effect or should it be
> counted as no delay for attack.
I've never had to address this. I have played exactly one game using
advanced combat, and after seeing the result (one noble, total strength 70,
easily beat a force more than twice his size because it consisted of many
smaller nobles), I never will again. It's a completely stupid system.
> And a question maybe a bit off topic (maybe not for newbies), but I'm
> looking for Rules for playing Kingmaker as variant where players are playing
> with a royal heir counter and gatherings forces or something like that I
> know it's mentioned in The General as an article but I couldn't get my hands
> on one. So I'm asking is there somewhere to get this article?
Find someone who has a copy and copy it. (AH made a practice of allowing
this once a particular back issue was no longer available from them, and
I haven't heard a word from Hasbro taking this permission away.)
Craftybstd
>> And a question maybe a bit off topic (maybe not for newbies), but I'm
>> looking for Rules for playing Kingmaker as variant where players are
>playing
>> with a royal heir counter and gatherings forces or something like that I
>> know it's mentioned in The General as an article but I couldn't get my
>hands
>> on one. So I'm asking is there somewhere to get this article?
>
>Find someone who has a copy and copy it. (AH made a practice of allowing
>this once a particular back issue was no longer available from them, and
>I haven't heard a word from Hasbro taking this permission away.)
You guys sure this appeared in an issue of the General? The only variant I
know of that includes this is the version of which I am co-author, some 50
pages of additional Kingmaker rules, that has never been published because
Avalon Hill, myself, and the other co-author were never able to come to an
agreement.
Just may post them here sometime if there's enough interest, however.
Russ Craft
Mark A. Biggar
General Vol 26 No. 4.
"Being Your Own King" by Gabriel Gonzalez Page 24
A interesting variant rule set where you play one of the heirs and
have to go around recruiting a faction of nobles to support you.
See my file of Kingmaker acticles in the General on BGG.