MTG: Twiddle The Black Vice
Paul J. Clegg
using borrowed cards), and came up with an interesting use of Twiddle that
I'm not really sure, in retrospect, is legal.
My opponent loves his Black Vice, and for some reason, it's in his hand at
the beginning of the game. So he plays his Black Vice, and I take damage.
But I eventually get a Twiddle card which is listed as being "Instant".
So what I wanted to do was to Twiddle the Black Vice so that I wouldn't
take damage for that turn. I reasoned that since Twiddle was instant, I
could do it, but the question came down to when I should do it. I basically
did it right before I took damage, tapping an Island I had. But then, after
I <didn't> take damage, I untapped all the lands I had, including the Island
I had just tapped for the Twiddle.
So I guess that if you have an Island card untapped at the end of your
opponent's turn, you can just play a Twiddle and get out of the Black Vice
for that turn. That's not too bad.
Should I have left that particular Island tapped for my whole turn? That's
another possible "interpretation".
Or is it illegal altogether? Can Black Vices be Twiddled?
...Paul
--
+ + + + + + + + + + +
Paul, cle...@rpi.edu. Read alt.galactic-guide! yIlImQo'! Don't Panic!
We are Popeye of Borg. Prepare to be askimigalated! toDSaH SoHQo'qu'!
"The story you are about to see is a fib. But it's short." - Mathnet
Chris Page
Clegg) wrote:
>
> Should I have left that particular Island tapped for my whole turn? That's
> another possible "interpretation".
>
Black vises can be twiddled. There is a space between when your opponent
announces he/she is finished and your turn begins to do stuff like
Twiddling artifacts or using the Prodigal Sorceror.
> Or is it illegal altogether? Can Black Vices be Twiddled?
>
> ...Paul
-Chris Page
pa...@student.physics.upenn.edu
Mark A Biggar
>Or is it illegal altogether? Can Black Vices be Twiddled?
Yes, twiddling his "Black Vice" is legal anf given you one turns relief.
Just use the twiddle any time after his untap phase and the end of his turn.
--
Mark Biggar
m...@wdl.loral.com
Owen Reynolds
>announces he/she is finished and your turn begins to do stuff like
>Twiddling artifacts or using the Prodigal Sorceror.
This is effectively true, but not precisely correct (IMHO.)
What you should really do is when your opponent says "I'm done," is
to say, "wait, let me think." You opponent's turn is not over until
you say you're done doing any fast effects.
This is the "time between turns," but it is really the tail end
of your opponents turn. It makes a difference if say, you have only
one island and you opponent wants to cast a really great sorcery she's
afraid you'll counter. After you tap the Black Vise, using your last
island, it's still her turn, so she can cast that sorcery without
fear.
Almost everyone I play with (including me) has had to be trained to
accept the "gentleman's" timing rules of the game. Basically, no phase
of a turn every ends until the other player has had a chance to do
something.
I used to bother us that someone could sneak in a poke with a
sorceror _after_ the other guy said her turn was over, but now we
realize that when you say, "My turn ends" you are really saying,
"my turn ends unless you do anything else."
Michael Schwuchow
>In article <2bp5se$a...@usenet.rpi.edu>, cle...@goya.its.rpi.edu (Paul J.
>Clegg) wrote:
>>
>> Should I have left that particular Island tapped for my whole turn? That's
>> another possible "interpretation".
>Black vises can be twiddled. There is a space between when your opponent
>announces he/she is finished and your turn begins to do stuff like
>Twiddling artifacts or using the Prodigal Sorceror.
>-Chris Page
>pa...@student.physics.upenn.edu
I agree, that black vises can be twiddle during the small gap of time
between the end of opponents turn and other player's upkeep-phase.
But why twiddle the vise at all?
It is a permanent artifect and shouldn't be effected by any twiddle.
Or are permanent artifacts disabled / switched off also, whenever they are
tapped?
Micha
--
--------------------Nutzt die Moeglichkeiten vom Genitiv!---------------------
! Michael Schwuchow UUCP: schw...@uniol.UUCP !
! Oldenburg, FRG/RFA/BRD Michael....@informatik.uni-oldenburg.de !
"Die Gartenstrasse ist die 'Elbchaussee' Oldenburgs!" "Das macht doch nichts!"
Mark A Biggar
>The Black Vice is a continuous artifact; tapping it has no effect on play.
Read the rules. Pg 16 under Artifacts:
"If an Artifct becomes tapped you may not use it again.
Even its continuous effects cease until it is untapped."
So if I twiddle a "Black Vice" its effects cease until it can be untapped.
--
Mark Biggar
m...@wdl.loral.com
Kelvin DeWaele
Minitures Wargaming Rules with?
Well so am I!
Please if you play Empire 5 regularly or any of the Empire rules write
to me so I can start a mailing list of Tactics, Rules ambiguities,
discussions, painting, modelling whatever.
Kelvin de Waele
su...@jcu.edu.au
Richard Bell
Mark A. Sonnes
(Richard Bell) wrote:
>
> The Black Vice is a continuous artifact; tapping it has no effect on play.
This is not correct. A continuous artifact that is tapped has no effect
until it is untapped (during the normal untap phase, or with a Twiddle, or
whatever.)
Please see the rules booklet, which I do not have here to get the page
number from. :)
-Mark
+-------------------------------------------+----------------------------+
| 'No Silicon Heaven? Prepostorous! Where | mso...@mv.us.adobe.com |
| would all the calculators go?' - Kryten | |
+-------------------------------------------+----------------------------+
| Of course, I may be the only one at Adobe to hold these opinions. |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
gary charbonneau
I suggest conducting this discussion in rec.games.miniatures. I am
not an Empire 5 player per se -- I'm still in the process of painting
my French army, and I haven't had much time to go out there an actually
play with it. However, I do own a copy of Empire 5 (as well as about
a billion other Napoleonic rules sets), and would very much like
to read such a discussion. An acquaintance of mine, John Joltz, is
an avid Empire player who shows up in rec.games.miniatures from time]
to time -- I'm sure he would be more than happt to discuss the rules.
--
Gary Charbonneau
char...@ezmail.ucs.indiana.edu
"Valeur et discipline"
Chris Page
Any artifact that has been tapped cannot be used, and has no effect, even
if it is a continuous artifact. Check the rules again.
-Chris Page
pa...@student.physics.upenn.edu
rec.games.board Network Representative for
Wizards of the Coast, Inc.