newbie needs help
Bob Stringer
>
> [snipped]> Help me please somebody. I love the game, but sometimes
> I really despair. What more can I do?
If you can afford it -- and it's pricey -- I'd suggest getting Snowie
Pro. Using Snowie to analyze my matches, so I can see the types of
mistakes that I make time and again, has helped my game more than
anything else.
A much less expensive investment is to subscribe to Kit Woolsey's
on-line BG magazine, GammOnLine. Check it out at:
There's a demo issue which will give you a good idea of what it's like.
Bob Stringer
To reply by email, please replace "DOODAH.com" with "pacbell.net" in my address
alison wylie
year, hating the a/s/l thing) ... now I'm on games grid and I love it, but
I'm still a really bad player despite help from the Bill Robertie books.
PSB1122
matches (as I have), graduate to lvl 7, spend money on the deluxe version, and
read the core books
It's a long, long road....
highlander
>>
>> [snipped]> Help me please somebody. I love the game, but sometimes
>> I really despair. What more can I do?
>
>Pro. Using Snowie to analyze my matches, so I can see the types of
>mistakes that I make time and again, has helped my game more than
>anything else.
software. i do agree with you that snowie is a very good program but i
doubt that it is of much value for a beginner. all those values (match
equity, doubling window etc) are very helpful for experienced players,
but not for newbies.
i think to download the latest jelly player and read some books will
help a lot for starters.
so here is my advice
- download the latest version of jellyfish (you can find a link at
www.fibs.com )
- play jelly at level 7. at level 1-4 jelly plays sometimes just like
a fool and you really don't want to play a fool. it's not a good idea
to see what a bad player does with the dice. look what a pro does and
try to get behind the secret of positional play.
- play one pointer first. in 1-pointer only checker play counts. no
doubling cube is used. -> improve your checker play.
- for starters i recommend roberties "advanced backgammon".
- play on gamesgrid/fibs and ask good players for advice.
hope this helps
kind regards
alain aka highlander(fibs)
Michael Crane
I would suggest that you join a local club or group and get some
head-to-head advice. It's all very well reading books and playing bots but
you need someone to tell you where you're going wrong.
Where do you live? I run the British Isles BG Assoc. and can put you in
touch with local players.
Call me on 015222 888676 if you like a chat.
Michael Crane - Biba / MSO
* Backgammon For Everyone *
Check out our web pages on:
www.cottagewebs.co.uk/biba/
www.msoworld.com/mindzine/news/Classic/bg/bg_index.html
alison wylie <ali...@wylie1962.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8c9380$kc3$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I've played jellyfish (still losing at level 1) ... I've played yahoo (for
a
> year, hating the a/s/l thing) ... now I'm on games grid and I love it, but
> I'm still a really bad player despite help from the Bill Robertie books.
Michael Crane
Nick Wedd
writes
>Where do you live? I run the British Isles BG Assoc. and can put you in
>touch with local players.
>
>Call me on 015222 888676 if you like a chat.
>
>
>Michael Crane - Biba / MSO
>
>* Backgammon For Everyone *
> Check out our web pages on:
> www.cottagewebs.co.uk/biba/
015222 888676: "the number you have dialled has not been recognised"
While trying to retrieve the URL: http://www.cottagewebs.co.uk/biba/
The following error was encountered:
ERROR 205 -- DNS name lookup failure.
Is it just me?
Nick
--
Nick Wedd ni...@maproom.co.uk
Michael Strato
The URL to the British Isles Backgammon Association is correct, please try
it again:
http://www.cottagewebs.co.uk/biba/
As for the phone number, I believe it has an extra 2 in it, so please try
this one - 01522 888676
I hope this helps.
Regards,
Michael Strato
.
"Nick Wedd" <Ni...@maproom.co.uk> wrote in message
news:$KnWVZCx...@maproom.demon.co.uk...
Michael Crane
Too many 2s it is 01522 888676 (UK)
Michael
Bob Stringer
highlander wrote:
> i do not agree with your advice. snowie is quite a expensive piece of
> software. i do agree with you that snowie is a very good program but i
> doubt that it is of much value for a beginner. all those values (match
> equity, doubling window etc) are very helpful for experienced players,
> but not for newbies.
> [snipped]
I agree Snowie is expensive (which I mentioned in my first post), and
price obviously is a consideration. But for all I know Alison, who says
she (apologize if you're a he) has been playing for a year and wants to
improve, is willing to pay. If she's serious enough about the game, and
can afford it, then I still think that Snowie is the best tool, especially
since she's already been through the Robertie books.
Everyone learns differently, I suppose, so I can only speak from my own
experience. I've been playing for a year and a half, so it wasn't all
that long ago that I was a newbie and "really bad.". I already had
Magriel's book, which I had bought 20 years ago, but ended up not playing
at the time. When I recently picked up the game, I up the book and got
about half way through it -- I know I should finish, and will one day. I
also bought the two Robertie books on Advanced BG, which Alison says she's
already done. I went through them once, and will study them in greater
detail again, because they were helpful. But still, I found that the
greatest help was playing and then seeing analyses of my own games. After
every match I immediately saved and analyzed that match before playing
another, mainly concentrating on my blunders. After a while I saw where I
kept making the same mistakes, and learned to avoid them.
I supplemented this with Kit Woolsey's MatchQiz series, so I could see
annotations of matches as the matches developed. I believe that that kind
of dynamic analysis is more valuable than studying a series of unrelated,
static diagrams. I didn't suggest MatchQiz to Alison, because that's
another relatively significant investment. But GammOnLine certainly is an
inexpensive alternative, since not only is there always an on-going match
between Kit and the readers, with Kit's daily annotations, each month Kit
also fully annotates a "Match of the Month." The articles and bulletin
board discussions are icing on the cake.
Having approached the game this way, my rating on GamesGrid is (I think)
currently in the 1760's. I realize that's not exactly an exalted level,
but it's definitely better than when I started out. My style right now is
mostly intuitive -- I know a lot of things not to do, and how to play
certain positions, but I know nothing about the mathematics of the game --
doubling windows and calculating nuances at, say, 4 away/3 away, versus 3
away/ 2 away, etc. I know that that's the sort of stuff I'll have to
learn some day if I want to get significantly better, but for now, I've
been concentrating on developing a decent intuition for the game, and I
think Snowie has been invaluable in helping me accomplish that.
In short, Alison complained that after a year of playing she was still
"really bad." What I think she needs, therefore, is "someone" to tell her
what she's doing wrong. Snowie will do that like nothing else. Seeing a
good player doing it right isn't nearly as valuable, because even when you
see someone else play a good move, that doesn't tell you whether the move
you might have played instead was a reasonable alternative, or just plan
doofus.
And yes again, Snowie is *very* expensive. My advice is simply based on
my own experience, and the assumption that Alison might be willing and
able to make the investment. If she's not, then I'd certainly agree with
your advice.
Regards.
Bob Stringer
--
To reply by e-mail, please replace "DOODAH.com" with "pacbell.net" in my
address
Nick Wedd
<dic...@videotron.ca> writes
>The URL to the British Isles Backgammon Association is correct, please try
>it again:
>http://www.cottagewebs.co.uk/biba/
Yes, it works now, thank you.
>As for the phone number, I believe it has an extra 2 in it, so please try
>this one - 01522 888676
Now that I have found the web site, I won't need the phone number - but
thanks anyway.
Mark Haley
hi allison
here is my 2 cents worth.
i started to play bg 2 years ago to the day (on gamesgrid btw)
i was beaten thoroughly on a daily basis and plunged into the 1300s. this
was very disheartening.
heres where it gets better.
first, i started watching alot of matches between better players, trying to
figure out why they moved where they moved.
second, bought magriels book ( must admit, never read it all )but
nonetheless it was a great help in understanding the basics.
third, bought snowie not for all the fancy features, but to see how i
accually played vs my opponent( i use more of its features alot more now)
still dont understand half of it though:)
FINALLY and most important to me!, i took some lessons from a good
player/teacher, and that has made all the difference. snowie might have all
the answers, but if you dont know what questions to ask...
so in conclusion be patient and try a few of the above things, i doubt there
is anyone here that would say that these are the best ways to improve your
game.
incidentally ive moved up from the 1300s to the mid 1700s in under a year.
regards mark haley
mhaley on gamesgrid
Gregg Cattanach
Reading through annotated matches helped me a lot in the beginner
intermediate stages. There are good ones (Woolsey vs. Bagai is a favorite)
at Backgammon Galore. www.bkgm.com There are also some *.cbg files you
can download and play through from the GamesGrid website. These are also
annotated to some degree.
I also would recommend HIGHLY subscribing to Kit Woolsey's on-line magazine
GammOnLine. www.gammonline.com Only $36 a year, and you will get access to
all the back issues immediately. A fully annotated match is in each monthly
issue, along with 8 great checker play problems (and solutions), and lots of
other interesting articles.
Also, if you have time, playing against JellyFish Free Player 3.5 (Level 7).
Remember winning isn't your goal, learning is. Watch how it plays and try to
get a handle on what it's up to.
But be patient. You have to play a LOT of backgammon to slowly build up
your positional knowledge. It does take time. But the trip can be
enjoyable every step of the way!
Good luck, (of course :-))
--
Gregg Cattanach
Zox at GamesGrid, Zone
http://gateway.to/backgammon
ICQ #2266410
gcattana...@prodigy.net
JP White
> I've played jellyfish (still losing at level 1) ... I've played yahoo (for a
> year, hating the a/s/l thing) ... now I'm on games grid and I love it, but
> I'm still a really bad player despite help from the Bill Robertie books.
> Help me please somebody. I love the game, but sometimes I really despair.
> What more can I do?
You have had good and varied advice from others, so I won't repeat it.
I can add that you have made a good choice of server with Gamesgrid. A strategy
that has worked out for me is to challenge someone with just a little higher
rating than yourself. You will find your own level and then be stretched just
enough to make it fun. Loosing all the time is no fun but playing those at or
around your level will result in enough wins to keep you upbeat and keen to claw
your way back up. (and you will go back up if you persevere).
Remember that Gamesgrid has many very good players so don't feel that you are no
good, it's just that there are many good players that are better than you (until
you learn the game much better).
Gamesgrid has a weekly 'lesson' aimed at begginner/intermediates. Check the
schedule, but I believe it's at 8 or 8:30 (GG Time) on Thursdays. Look for the
green book next to ElaineS and Richard's nick. Join in by watching the games
they play, they comment and solicit comment throughout. The best part is it's
free.
Keep your chin up, play, study and play some more.
--
JP White
jp.w...@nashville.com
Julian R. Haley
You were HIGHLY motivated to learn because you couldn't stand the fact your
little brother could thrash you on a regular basis...
:)
thank god for sibling rivalry
Mark Haley <ma...@nospamkkj.com> wrote in message
news:2C4G4.195$cb6....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
highlander
>Everyone learns differently, I suppose, so I can only speak from my own
>experience. I've been playing for a year and a half, so it wasn't all
>that long ago that I was a newbie and "really bad.".
i started to play backgammon about 15 years ago. i was 13 and i was
moving the checkers around the board playing all those
newbie-blunders. about 5 years ago i started to play backgammon on
fibs. after two years i was still rated near 1450. so it seems that
even the experience i got by playing didnt help much. then i stopped
playing for about two years.
now i'm back. and i am willing to learn the game. i think this
motivation is one of the basic, let's say, ingredients of success.
anyway. after reading some books, talking with nice people on the net
i slowly started to improve. 1550 - 1600 - 1680 - 1730. now i can keep
myself over 1700.
but what really helped me was to play at a local club. so i agree with
the guy in the other newbie-help posting
>In short, Alison complained that after a year of playing she was still
>"really bad." What I think she needs, therefore, is "someone" to tell her
>what she's doing wrong.
you are 100 % right. and i totally agree with you. and i also agree
with you that to play against a human is not the same. i mean, even if
the top rated player tells me that my move was wrong i only "believe"
in roll-outs. so finally i've bought my own copy of snowie. but all
those numbers are quite difficult to understand even for an advanced
player.
>And yes again, Snowie is *very* expensive. My advice is simply based on
>my own experience, and the assumption that Alison might be willing and
>able to make the investment. If she's not, then I'd certainly agree with
>your advice.
alison wylie
great advice, and I thank you for it. Magriels book is on my birthday list
now, I'll be checking out the British Isles BG Association, GammOnLine
sounds very interesting, and I didn't know about the weekly "lesson" at
gamesgrid. You can be sure I'll be investigating that too, as soon as I can
tear myself away from the grid. All other suggestions have been duly noted.
I can see it's going to be a long road.
Thanks again, you've really been great.
Alison
Rick Gerace
www.gammonvillage.com. It uses the Snowie 2.2 engine, but provides a fine
graphical teaching interface at a nice price of $30. Read the review for
details.
alison wylie <ali...@wylie1962.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8c9380$kc3$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
Nunez
great for getting a better understanding of the various categories that
games can be characterized under and which strategies should be used in
these categories. Its also quite comforting to know that the positions
were derived from real games played by experts who had misplayed the
roll, and that these positions underwent a high level of scrutiny by JF
analysis (results of rollouts of each position are actually included in
the appendix). And of course it's that Kit interprets this statistical
jibberish in a readable and organized way. It's $40 at Amazon, but
takes about 8-10 weeks to deliver since it is not kept in stock. My
game has improved noticably in the months after I completed it. Good
luck!
Richard McIntosh
on GamesGrid, including all the top world players. A few lessons will
focus your thinking on the issues that are impeding your progress.
I recommend Paul Magriel's BACKGAMMON as the best beginning volume. It
discusses the basic principles clearly and in depth, and lays a strong
foundation for future study.
You can order BACKGAMMON, NEW IDEAS IN BACKGAMMON, and other books by
Robertie, Woolsey, Kleinman, Ortego, and others, from GamesGrid Boutique
http://www.straight8.com/gg.boutique
at the same prices as Amazon and Barnes&Noble. The best part: Unlike the
mass market stores, we actually stock the backgammon books we list, so we
can ship them to you immediately, instead of 8-10 weeks from now.
Regards,
Richard
[Yes, I am a GamesGrid employee, and I still don't play enough backgammon]
Nunez wrote:
>
> I've found Kit Woosley's "New Ideas In Backgammon" quite helpful. It's
[... elision ...]