Chouette Questions
DD Wright
--------------------------------------------
What is an autodouble with and without carry? It is the carry part I am
not sure about.
--------------------------------------------
Also, in a chouette where everyone has their own cube, if the box
doubles everyone (let say it is the first time a cube has been thrown),
we have a rule that if all but one drops, the take must beaver and the
taker can reconsider if he was not the last to make the decision. OK, I
understand at of this, but there is another rule that can be added or
replace this one and the is the lone taker must buy the cube from at
least one of the droppers for a half of point I believe and play on
against the box and the side action.
How does this really work?
Can the dropper who was taken up on the side action consult with the
box?
--------------------------------------------
Alexander Zamanian
>
> Chouette Questions
>
> What is an autodouble with and without carry? It is the carry part I am
> not sure about.
>
I believe you are asking about what I refer to as automatic doubles and
carryovers. When each player rolls one die to see who moves first, if
the two dice come up equal, then the cube starts at the two level, and
the players each roll again (this is the automatic double part). If the
dice come up equal again, (when the game is already slated to begin at
with the cube at the two level) then the *next* game is slated to start
at the two level (this is the carryover part).
In a chouette it is usually up to the box to accept or decline the
carryover when a game that was slated to begin at the two level begins.
Allowing multiple carryovers to build up is a common variant.
> Also, in a chouette where everyone has their own cube, if the box
> doubles everyone (let say it is the first time a cube has been thrown),
> we have a rule that if all but one drops, the take must beaver and the
> taker can reconsider if he was not the last to make the decision. OK, I
> understand at of this, but there is another rule that can be added or
> replace this one and the is the lone taker must buy the cube from at
> least one of the droppers for a half of point I believe and play on
> against the box and the side action.
>
> How does this really work?
>
Let's say that the box doubles everyone, and everyone on the captain's
side thinks it's a drop except for one guy. In some chouettes, the guy
who thinks it's a take has to either drop his cube or offer to take
"extras" from anyone on the captain's side who wants to offer them.
This means that anyone who thinks the position is a drop pays the lone
taker a point to take a two cube. The players who offered the extras are
now on the box's side, so they may have to decide whether to take a
redouble from the original taker.
This rule, although slightly confusing at first, makes a tremendous
amount of sense (as opposed to the "lone taker must beaver" rule). The
reason is, when you pass a cube, you're saying that you would rather
give up a point than to take a two cube in the current position, so you
should jump at the chance to pay a point to make someone take a two
cube. When you take a cube, you're saying you'd rather play the position
holding a two cube than give up a point, so you should jump at the
chance to take a point and play the position holding a two cube.
The jist of the reason behind the rule is that if the position is
actually a take, then the lone taker comes out ahead equity-wise, if the
position is a drop then the people who offered the extras come out
ahead.
> Can the dropper who was taken up on the side action consult with the
> box?
>
In the chouettes that I've seen, the answer is no, but I'm sure there's
chouettes out there where consulting of this manner is allowed.
Personally, I feel that no consulting makes more sense, because the lone
taker may feel he has a take against the box alone, but a pass with
others consulting.
A reasonable compromise would be to allow consulting only after the lone
taker redoubles.
-Alex
--
Alex Zamanian
azam...@bbn.com
(617) 873-2127
Jim Wallace
DD Wright wrote in message <369E4145...@earthlink.net>...
>Chouette Questions
-----------------
>
>What is an autodouble with and without carry? It is the carry part I am
>not sure about.
Many chouettes allow for the cube (or all cubes) to be turned to 2 if the
box and
captain roll doubles. In my chouettes this was always at the option of the
box.
The carry rule is used for any additional opening doubles rolled after the
first opening roll
of the box and captain. Why waste an automatic double! Because the auto on
the opening roll is limited to one turn, the second doubles throw gets
"carried" to the start of the next games, again to be used at the option of
the box. The opening that can't be used in one game kept getting passed
along to future games.
The carrys can sometime mean lots of auto doubles in a roll.
>--------------------------------------------
>
>Also, in a chouette where everyone has their own cube, if the box
>doubles everyone (let say it is the first time a cube has been thrown),
>we have a rule that if all but one drops, the take must beaver and the
>taker can reconsider if he was not the last to make the decision. OK, I
>understand at of this, but there is another rule that can be added or
>replace this one and the is the lone taker must buy the cube from at
>least one of the droppers for a half of point I believe and play on
>against the box and the side action.
>
>How does this really work?
>
>Can the dropper who was taken up on the side action consult with the
>box?
The purpose of this sort of rule is speed up the chou and prevent one
desperate
taker from dragging things out. I think the "lone taker must beaver" rule to
be
pretty extreme. It really makes you drop legitimate takes just because of
the financial
inequities.
A better rule is the "lone taker must accept all extras" Extras are any
cubes from others on the
team that have just dropped. They pay the taker 1 point and all the cubes go
on the takers his side.
The beauty of this is that is makes the lone taker stand behind his
decision. He is saying it is a take and is prepared to back it up. If the
droppers are convinced its a drop then paying
the other person one for a two cube should right as well.
When playing out this game the usual rule is that the "extra" cubes cannot
consult. This
lets the lone taker still play against one mind rather than a whole new
team. He may have thought it was a take solely because of certain weaknesses
about his opponent and he doesn't get disadvantaged
by other advisors.
Jim Wallace
DD Wright
Now a couple more questions come to mind about carry-overs.
If you are applying a carryover to a game and the first roll is a double is
that another carryover?
Does a carryover(s) still take effect, if the box loses?
If the box declares that a second first roll double is to be carried over, can
he change his mind and not apply it to the next game? and if so, would it (and
all multiple carryovers in effect) be gone for any future games?
david
<wrig...@earthlink.net> writes
>Chouette Questions
>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------
>
>What is an autodouble with and without carry? It is the carry part I am
>not sure about.
>
An auto comes into effect when both players roll the same opening number
(e.g. 1-1, 2-2). In this case (by prior mutual or collective agreement)
the doubler is turned to 2, and both players roll again to start the
game. In other words, 1 in 6 games will probably be played at double the
initial stakes.
Note that the turning of the cube to 2 with an 'auto' at the start of
the game does not qualify the Jacoby rule, and the cube must still be
turned to 4 before a gammon can be won/lost.
A carry-over applies when an auto is already in effect and both players
again roll the same opening number. In this case any subsequent 'auto/s'
is/are carried over to the next game/s. This allows a series of 'autos'
to be spread out over two or more games, rather than having one game
with the cube starting at 4, 8...64...
>--------------------------------------------
>
>Also, in a chouette where everyone has their own cube, if the box
>doubles everyone (let say it is the first time a cube has been thrown),
>we have a rule that if all but one drops, the take must beaver and the
>taker can reconsider if he was not the last to make the decision. OK, I
>understand at of this, but there is another rule that can be added or
>replace this one and the is the lone taker must buy the cube from at
>least one of the droppers for a half of point I believe and play on
>against the box and the side action.
>
Excellent idea to compel a beaver (and possible racoon).
Coming into UK fashion is the 'prop' (or extras), which applies only on
an initial cube turn by the box, as follows:
If only one player takes, each dropper can now 'prop' the taker by
giving him 1 pt to take their cube on 2; an equitable arrangement to
both parties, since one believes the position to be a drop whilst the
other sees a take. If one or more droppers prop the lone taker, the
taker can now reconsider the position (the time, the scoresheet, bored
team members nodding complacently from the sideline as he gets closed
out and gammoned), and drop the initial cube.
The prop (or extras) puts pressure on prospective box thieves and
steamers who are prepared to risk one point to see out a position while
the other participants sit around twiddling.
>How does this really work?
>
>Can the dropper who was taken up on the side action consult with the
>box?
Only on subsequent cube decisions.
>
>--------------------------------------------
>
>
--------------------------
da...@infoplus.demon.co.uk
--------------------------
David Montgomery
>doubles everyone (let say it is the first time a cube has been thrown),
>we have a rule that if all but one drops, the take must beaver
This is a bad rule. The intent of this rule is to prevent a lone
taker from keeping a game going with all the other crew members out
of the action. It has this effect, but it also has the effect of
punishing players who would make correct taking decisions even when
they are in the minority.
A good rule is this:
On an initial cube turn, when the box doubles everyone simultaneously,
if fewer than half of the crew members take the cube, these takers must
be willing to accept extras from the droppers.
When a dropper gives a taker an extra, the dropper pays the taker 1 point
and gives the taker a 2-cube. This amounts to a side bet between these
two players one whether the position is a drop or a take.
The dropper willingly gave up 1 point, so he must believe that the taker
will lose more than 1 point on average. The taker, on the other hand,
accepted the box's cube rather than give up one point, so she must believe
that she will lose less than 1 point on average. The extra allows the
two players to make a bet where each has implicitly indicated that the
bet favors them.
This rule has the same desired effect. First, players will be less
likely to take in the minority, since to do so they will have be willing
to put more money at risk. Second, no one ever needs to be out of the
action, since if there are minority takers, the droppers can get back
into the game by giving an extra cube, and they can make a profit in
doing so if they are right.
This rule avoids the undesired effect of punishing players who make the
correct decision to take.
>Can the dropper who was taken up on the side action consult with the
>box?
Rules on this may vary from chouette to chouette, but I firmly believe
that the droppers should not be allowed to consult with box on any
checker plays. When a player takes against the box, she may be taking
because of the way she expects the box to play. Positions that are
correct takes against the box may become drops when others are allowed
to consult.
Regarding recubes, my preference is that the cubes stay independent
-- the box and each dropper who gave an extra decide independently
whether to take or drop recubes (and should it arise, whether to re-recube).
There are good arguments for both ways of doing it however.
David Montgomery
mo...@cs.umd.edu
monty on FIBS
jag
david <da...@infoplus.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Excellent idea to compel a beaver (and possible racoon).
>Coming into UK fashion is the 'prop' (or extras), which applies only on
>an initial cube turn by the box, as follows:
>
>If only one player takes, each dropper can now 'prop' the taker by
>giving him 1 pt to take their cube on 2; an equitable arrangement to
>both parties, since one believes the position to be a drop whilst the
>other sees a take. If one or more droppers prop the lone taker, the
>taker can now reconsider the position (the time, the scoresheet, bored
>team members nodding complacently from the sideline as he gets closed
>out and gammoned), and drop the initial cube.
>
>The prop (or extras) puts pressure on prospective box thieves and
>steamers who are prepared to risk one point to see out a position while
>the other participants sit around twiddling.
>
Well, normally risking two points :)
Intersting scenario (from a recent chouette):
Captain on roll, short of a miracle the box is going to cube the team out
next turn so to avoid the props the captain cubed, got beavered, rolled
badly and got cubed out along with everyone else.
jag
James Grenier
Director, IT Systems, The HLT Group Ltd
j...@hltpubs.demon.co.uk
http://www.holborncollege.ac.uk