# PRECISION DICE???

33 views

Feb 13, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/13/98
to

What is a precision die??? Is it the one that has rounded corners??? If
not, what is the difference??

Thanks,
Rodrigo

### Leo Bueno

Feb 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/15/98
to

Take a look at a typical die. Note that the numbers are made up
of depressions (little holes) on the surface. That means, for
example, that the 6 side has had 5 more chunks of die material
(plastic, wood, etc.) carved out of it than the 1 side. So, the
6 side of the die (which is usually opposite the 1 side) should
weigh less. As a result, the die is slightly "loaded" in favor
of rolling 1, since that is the heaviest of all sides, given that
it is the surface with the fewest chunks taken out of it.

"Precision" dice supposedly do not suffer from this inherent
problem. The ones that I have seen (old casino dice, also known
as "canceled" dice) have the numbers "painted" near or on the
surface of each side. Assuming that the density of the paint is
close to the other material, then no side should weigh more than
any other, resulting in a supposedly fairer die.

I suspect that the difference between well made run of the mill
dice and precision dice may not be terribly significant, but it
would be nice to know that one is playing with the fairest dice
possible.

Also, note that although rounded corners make the dice literally
roll better, the quality of the craftsmanship needed to make
those corners identical has got to be pretty darn good; absent
fine craftsmanship, those corners may make the load problem
worse.

OK, can we now hear from somebody who really knows what's going
on with this stuff?

By the way, if anybody knows where one can get *small* (12 m.m.
or 1/2 inch or less) precision dice (casino dice are too big to
fit in the dice cubes that come in the typical Backgammon sets)

==================================================================
Snail-mail: P.O. Box 440545, Miami, FL 33144-0545 (USA)
Miami Backgammon: http//www.accesspro.net/leobueno/gammon.htm
==================================================================

### Stuart Katz, MD

Feb 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/15/98
to

On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:02:49 -0600, Rodrigo Andrade

>What is a precision die??? Is it the one that has rounded corners??? If
>not, what is the difference??
>

transluscent, not opaque. In theory this makes them immune to
tampering.

Stuart

### Stephen Hubbard

Feb 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/15/98
to

leob...@accesspro.netREMOVETEXTFOLLOWINGnet (Leo Bueno) wrote:

>On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:02:49 -0600, Rodrigo Andrade
>
>>What is a precision die??? Is it the one that has rounded corners??? If
>>not, what is the difference??
>>

>>Thanks,
>>Rodrigo
>>
>
>
>Take a look at a typical die. Note that the numbers are made up
>of depressions (little holes) on the surface. That means, for
>example, that the 6 side has had 5 more chunks of die material
>(plastic, wood, etc.) carved out of it than the 1 side. So, the
>6 side of the die (which is usually opposite the 1 side) should
>weigh less. As a result, the die is slightly "loaded" in favor
>of rolling 1, since that is the heaviest of all sides, given that
>it is the surface with the fewest chunks taken out of it.

Seems to me just the opposite would be very slightly more likely. That
is since the 1 side is slightly heavier it would more likely end up on
the bottom and the 6 would be showing.

### Leo Bueno

Feb 15, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/15/98
to

On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 17:06:55 GMT, xthe...@mindspring.com
(Stephen Hubbard) wrote:

>>Take a look at a typical die. Note that the numbers are made up
>>of depressions (little holes) on the surface. That means, for
>>example, that the 6 side has had 5 more chunks of die material
>>(plastic, wood, etc.) carved out of it than the 1 side. So, the
>>6 side of the die (which is usually opposite the 1 side) should
>>weigh less. As a result, the die is slightly "loaded" in favor
>>of rolling 1, since that is the heaviest of all sides, given that
>>it is the surface with the fewest chunks taken out of it.
>
>Seems to me just the opposite would be very slightly more likely. That
>is since the 1 side is slightly heavier it would more likely end up on
>the bottom and the 6 would be showing.
>

Correct; I got that backwards.

The die would be loaded in favor of the 1 being on the bottom
(heavier), showing the 6.

### Chuck Bower

Feb 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/18/98
to

>What is a precision die??? Is it the one that has rounded corners??? If
>not, what is the difference??

There have been some questions recently about dice. Rooming with the
Diceman at Pittsburgh this past weekend, maybe I picked up enough knowledge

Each play in backgammon requires two independent, uniformly distributed
random positive integers less than 7. How is this done?? Recently computers
have provided "pseudo" random numbers which satisfy this requirement. Enough
has been said in this newsgroup that I will not touch this subject.

A cube has six indistinguishable, perpendicular square faces. Made of
homogenous (uniform density) material, if the faces can be numbered WITHOUT
THROWING OFF THE BALANCE, then precision dice result. For quality dice, holes
are drilled and then carefully filled with a different color material (OF
IDENTICAL DENSITY). But, precision dice alone do not guarantee the required
random numbers. Typically the randomness is provided by two actions:
1) VIGOROUS shaking in a quality dice cup, and 2) a brisk toss onto the
playing surface.

Good cups have "randomizers" built in--ribs, bumps, and/or contstrictive
lips. Also, the inner volume needs to be large compared to the size of the
dice. The dice also get randomized when they hit the playing surface.
Rolling, spinning, bouncing off the walls and checkers all contribute to
prioviding the required random numbers. Soft playing surfaces (like cork,
leather, and fabric) also help, compared to hard surfaces (for example, wood,
metal, plastic).

Square cornered dice (as used in craps) don't roll well on backgammon
surfaces (which are much smaller in area than crap tables). For this reason
the corners and edges are machined off on a lathe. Proper technique maintains
the balance of the dice.

If all this effort and technique sounds exacting, it is. That is why
precision dice are not cheap (current US price is \$5 per die). Good dice cups
cost \$30 - \$50 each. A \$1000 board carries a certain beauty, but it doesn't
insure the integrity of the game. Quality dice, cups, and good rolling
technique do.

Chuck
bo...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
c_ray on FIBS

### Chuck Bower

Feb 18, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/18/98
to

In article <6cdmli\$ank\$1...@jetsam.uits.indiana.edu>,
Chuck Bower <bo...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu> ERRONEOUSLY wrote:

(snip)

Good dice cups cost \$30 - \$50 each.

(snip)

He should have said "\$30 - \$50 a PAIR". Now they sound like
a bargain!

### Leo Bueno

Feb 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/19/98
to

On 18 Feb 1998 14:44:22 GMT, bo...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
(Chuck Bower) wrote:

IDC/Your Move of Huntington Station, New York, 516-424-3300,
800-645-4710, sells canceled casino (precision) dice for \$0.99
each; shipping and handling should be 3 bucks, so for 7 dollars
you should be able to pick up two sets. All dice, at the time I
ordered, were red, although they had two types of finishes
available. I got mine delivered (in the US) very quickly.

Make sure you get matching dice types though. I have two sets,
one from "Lucky Lady" casino (matte finish) and the other from
"GSA" casino (glossy finish). I first got a set from the "Casino
de Mallorca" which was slightly larger than the GSA or Lucky Lady
sets, so you have to make sure you get equal size sets.

Also, make sure you get matching dot types; the Mallorca dice
were "bird's eye", which I disliked (I prefer solid dots).

Last, but not least, make sure the dots on both 6 sides of the
dice match (if you are picky about the aesthetics, otherwise,
never mind). One of the GSA dice I got had the middle two dots
slightly away from the other four; it would have been ok, but for
the fact that the other die had them perfectly lined up.

Note that these are used dice and they may show their wear in
addition to having the word "void" stamped on one of the sides.
Otherwise, they look very nice and feel great when you roll them
by hand.

Note these dice are rather large (19m.m., 3/4 in.), so they will
probably not shake well in your typical flattened dice cups. I
had to get a couple of plastic tumblers, which seem to to the job
as dice cups just fine (although I can not carry them around
inside my board; they don't fit).

Now, if someone could tell me where to get small precision dice
(1/2 in.) for a buck a pop, I will greatly appreciate it.

### marina_smith

Feb 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/19/98
to

Try Gamblers General Store in Las Vegas.

Phone: (800) 322-2447 or (702) 382-9903
Fax: (702) 366-0329

They sell both craps and backgammon dice - be sure to ask for the
latter. Their dice are 5/8", not half, but work well with my
tournament-sized board and cups. There is a good selection of colours.
Thye do not have void stamped on, but do have a casino number. Can't
give you a current price as I got mine in 1995, but they were cheap.
They also come in a good selection of colours. They can be shipped
internationally too, for oterhs reading this who may want them, but
the cost goes up alarmingly and the store got it wrong - I had to pay
excess dues at this end, so they ended up costing me \$10 a pair. (I
bought lots or it would have been more).

mas / Marina

leob...@accesspro.netREMOVETEXTFOLLOWINGnet (Leo Bueno) wrote:

>Now, if someone could tell me where to get small precision dice
>(1/2 in.) for a buck a pop, I will greatly appreciate it.

### John Goodwin

Feb 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/19/98
to

On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:02:49 -0600, Rodrigo Andrade

>What is a precision die??? Is it the one that has rounded corners??? If
>not, what is the difference??
>

Does anyone use electronic dice?

There are absurdly easy to make, and should be very easy to mass
produce.

They would also be as near to 100% fair as it is possible to get if
designed correctly (and that's not hard).

J.G.

### Leo Bueno

Feb 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/19/98
to

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:19:52 GMT, Marina Smith wrote:

>Try Gamblers General Store in Las Vegas.
>
>Phone: (800) 322-2447 or (702) 382-9903
>Fax: (702) 366-0329
>
>They sell both craps and backgammon dice - be sure to ask for the
>latter. Their dice are 5/8", not half, but work well with my
>tournament-sized board and cups. There is a good selection of colours.
>Thye do not have void stamped on, but do have a casino number.

>
>

>leob...@accesspro.netREMOVETEXTFOLLOWINGnet (Leo Bueno) wrote:
>
>>Now, if someone could tell me where to get small precision dice
>>(1/2 in.) for a buck a pop, I will greatly appreciate it.
>
>

I called and ordered a set of casino/precision dice, package of 5
(will thus have a spare), only red color available. Price was right:
\$9 for the dice, \$3 shipping.

I ordered straight ("razor"?) edge. I am skeptical, paranoically so
perhaps, about the rounded corners. I suspect that rounding the
corners loads the dice ever so slightly, because either the milling or
the casting process should be much more difficult, and thus imprecise,
than for straight corners. Am I off my rocker on this?

Feb 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/19/98
to

In article <34ec8c11...@news.accesspro.net>,

Leo Bueno <leob...@accesspro.netREMOVETEXTAFTERnet> wrote:
>I ordered straight ("razor"?) edge. I am skeptical, paranoically so
>perhaps, about the rounded corners. I suspect that rounding the
>corners loads the dice ever so slightly, because either the milling or
>the casting process should be much more difficult, and thus imprecise,
>than for straight corners. Am I off my rocker on this?

I will never play backgammon in any sort of money situation with
casino (large, straight-edge) dice. They are too large to tumble well
on a backgammon board, and the straight edge contributes significantly
to this. My personal preference is for the samllest size available.

I recommend that people spend a few extra dollars and get real
backgammon precision dice from a reputable supplier (e.g. Carol Joy
Cole.) It's a one-time investment, as they essentially last forever.

-Patti
--
pat...@netcom.com/pat...@gammon.com |
http://www.gammon.com/ | The deep end isn't a place
or just yell, "Hey, Patti!" | for dipping a toe.

### Chuck Bower

Feb 19, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/19/98
to

In article <34ec8c11...@news.accesspro.net>,
Leo Bueno <leob...@accesspro.netREMOVETEXTAFTERnet> wrote:

>I called and ordered a set of casino/precision dice, package of 5
>(will thus have a spare), only red color available. Price was right:
>\$9 for the dice, \$3 shipping.
>

>I ordered straight ("razor"?) edge. I am skeptical, paranoically so
>perhaps, about the rounded corners. I suspect that rounding the
>corners loads the dice ever so slightly, because either the milling or
>the casting process should be much more difficult, and thus imprecise,
>than for straight corners. Am I off my rocker on this?

Well, they're your words, so YES!!!!!!

I want to be the last person to discourage someone from being
innovative. But square edged/cornered dice ARE VERY UNLIKELY TO (that's
my way of saying WON'T) give you random rolls.

The reason square cornered dice work for craps and not for BG
can be explained by a fairly simple concept: scale. Look at the size of
a crap table compared to the size of the craps dice. The casino's require
the player to throw the dice to the far end of the table and the must
bounce AT LEAST ONE TIME off of a wall. The table surface is EXTREMELY
DENSELY woven wool felt. I haven't been in a casino for 16 years so
I don't remember the wall material, but I seem to recall it is some
kind of high density foam rubber. The casinos believe from MILLIONS
(could it be BILLIONS?) of dice tosses that these conditions give random
dice.

As I metioned in a post a couple of days ago, BG dice are randomized
in two ways: while shaken in a dice cup, and to a lesser extent, when
tossed onto the playing surface. Perfect cubes are not likely to bounce
well in a dice cup UNLESS THEY ARE QUITE SMALL IN RELATION TO THE INSIDE
OF THE CUP. Casino craps dice would require dice cups the size of German
beer steins--2 liters (yes, the BIG ONES)! You'd need forearms the size
of Popeye's to shake them.

Secondly, when the dice hit the surface they hopefully spin, roll,
and bounce around. That is unlikely to happen with perfect cubes. They
will skid and slide to a halt without turning over, OR they will bounce
out of the playing surface. And to top it off, the sharp corners are
likely to tear your playing surface to shreds after a few hundred games.

Leo, come to your senses. Have you ever worked a lathe? These
devices are SUPER PRECISE. Yes, an idiot operating one would produce
poor quality dice, but a skilled pro (e.g. Larry Strommen, the DICEMAN)
has no trouble rounding the corners and keeping them balanced. You
paid \$12 for five casino dice, which are REJECTS (although probably
still balanced), likely too large for BG play, and have sharp edges
which WON'T GIVE YOU THE RANDOM THROWS YOU SEEK. For \$20 you can get
four precision dice as used by ALL TOURNAMENT PLAYERS in the US and,
I suspect, the rest of the world as well. Is it worth saving \$8 for
an inferior product??

Sorry if I seem a little agitated, but you asked me by e-mail to
write a post on precision dice. I did that and you seem to have
ignored it. Some of my technical writing may be obtuse, but was this one
on reason and not on paranoia.

### ch...@1acr.com

Feb 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/20/98
to

> Sorry if I seem a little agitated, but you asked me by e-mail to
>write a post on precision dice. I did that and you seem to have
>ignored it. Some of my technical writing may be obtuse, but was this one
>on reason and not on paranoia.
>
>
> Chuck
> bo...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
> c_ray on FIBS

Thanks

Chuck

gold_eagle

### Stephen Turner

Feb 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/20/98
to

John Goodwin wrote:
>
> Does anyone use electronic dice?
>
> There are absurdly easy to make, and should be very easy to mass
> produce.
>
> They would also be as near to 100% fair as it is possible to get if
> designed correctly (and that's not hard).
>

All true. But unfortunately, people don't trust them.

--
Stephen Turner sr...@cam.ac.uk http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~sret1/
Statistical Laboratory, 16 Mill Lane, Cambridge, CB2 1SB, England
"The Bishop of Huntingdon and Postman Pat each opened new school extensions"
(Cambridge Weekly News, 28-May-97)

### marina_smith

Feb 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/20/98
to

They may well be fair, but no-one would believe you in play. People
are very suspicious.

mas / Marina

J...@opticon.demon.co.uk (John Goodwin) wrote:

>On Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:02:49 -0600, Rodrigo Andrade
>
>>What is a precision die??? Is it the one that has rounded corners??? If
>>not, what is the difference??
>>
>

>Does anyone use electronic dice?
>
>There are absurdly easy to make, and should be very easy to mass
>produce.
>
>They would also be as near to 100% fair as it is possible to get if
>designed correctly (and that's not hard).
>

>J.G.

--
Marina Smith - Reading U.K, to mail me remove XX from address

### John Goodwin

Feb 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/20/98
to

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:26:08 GMT, Marina Smith wrote:

I was assuming that only one unit would be used, and it would only
have one go button, but I suppose that someone would find a way to rig
things.

It's amazing how clever cheats can be. If only they'd put that
ingenuity to working out how to play [whatever] better.

Now I come to think of it, why do we use two pairs of dice?

That's one of those odd things that I've never seen explained, and it
has never occured to me to wonder about.

J.G.

### Leo Bueno

Feb 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/20/98
to

On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:00:55 GMT, pat...@netcom.com (Patti

>In article <34ec8c11...@news.accesspro.net>,
>Leo Bueno <leob...@accesspro.netREMOVETEXTAFTERnet> wrote:
>>I ordered straight ("razor"?) edge. I am skeptical, paranoically so
>>perhaps, about the rounded corners. I suspect that rounding the
>>corners loads the dice ever so slightly, because either the milling or
>>the casting process should be much more difficult, and thus imprecise,
>>than for straight corners. Am I off my rocker on this?
>

>I will never play backgammon in any sort of money situation with
>casino (large, straight-edge) dice. They are too large to tumble well
>on a backgammon board, and the straight edge contributes significantly
>to this.

What about the straight-edge, but *small* (5/8 inch) casino dice?

### Leo Bueno

Feb 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/20/98
to

On 19 Feb 1998 23:04:30 GMT, bo...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
(Chuck Bower) wrote:

>
> Sorry if I seem a little agitated, but you asked me by e-mail to
>write a post on precision dice. I did that and you seem to have
>ignored it. Some of my technical writing may be obtuse, but was this one
>on reason and not on paranoia.
>

Chuck:

not ignore your private message; I considered it and then made a
decision, albeit probably the wrong one. I appreciate your
taking the time to deal with this issue.

### marina_smith

Feb 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/20/98
to

You will find that people will refuse to play with straight-edged
dice. The rounded corners are standard in backgammon, sorry.

mas / Marina

leob...@accesspro.netREMOVETEXTAFTERnet (Leo Bueno) wrote:

>On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:19:52 GMT, Marina Smith wrote:
>
>>Try Gamblers General Store in Las Vegas.
>>
>>Phone: (800) 322-2447 or (702) 382-9903
>>Fax: (702) 366-0329
>>
>>They sell both craps and backgammon dice - be sure to ask for the
>>latter. Their dice are 5/8", not half, but work well with my
>>tournament-sized board and cups. There is a good selection of colours.
>>Thye do not have void stamped on, but do have a casino number.
>
>
>>
>>
>>leob...@accesspro.netREMOVETEXTFOLLOWINGnet (Leo Bueno) wrote:
>>
>>>Now, if someone could tell me where to get small precision dice
>>>(1/2 in.) for a buck a pop, I will greatly appreciate it.
>>
>>
>
>

>I called and ordered a set of casino/precision dice, package of 5
>(will thus have a spare), only red color available. Price was right:
>\$9 for the dice, \$3 shipping.
>

>I ordered straight ("razor"?) edge. I am skeptical, paranoically so
>perhaps, about the rounded corners. I suspect that rounding the
>corners loads the dice ever so slightly, because either the milling or
>the casting process should be much more difficult, and thus imprecise,
>than for straight corners. Am I off my rocker on this?
>
>
>

--

### Leo Bueno

Feb 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/20/98
to

On 19 Feb 1998 23:04:30 GMT, bo...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
(Chuck Bower) wrote:
>
> Leo, come to your senses. Have you ever worked a lathe? These
>devices are SUPER PRECISE. Yes, an idiot operating one would produce
>poor quality dice, but a skilled pro (e.g. Larry Strommen, the DICEMAN)
>has no trouble rounding the corners and keeping them balanced.

Does anybody have Larry Strommen's e-mail and Web address?

Feb 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/20/98
to

Leo Bueno <leob...@accesspro.netREMOVETEXTFOLLOWINGnet> wrote:
>On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:00:55 GMT, pat...@netcom.com (Patti

>>I will never play backgammon in any sort of money situation with
>>casino (large, straight-edge) dice.

>What about the straight-edge, but *small* (5/8 inch) casino dice?

No. Those aren't small.

Precision backgammon dice usually come in three sizes. 1/2", 9/16",
and 5/8". 9/16" is the "normal" size for tournament play, although
many people use the smaller 1/2" dice (myself included) because they
tumble much better. I used to have 5/8" precision dice, and gave them
away because they had a tendency to hit the board like rocks and then
stay there., rather than bouncing around like overexcited jumping
beans.

If large round-edge dice do that, how much worse do you think
straight-edge dice would be?

-Patti
--
pat...@netcom.com/pat...@gammon.com |

http://www.gammon.com/ | If it wasn't for the last minute
or just yell, "Hey, Patti!" | I'd never get anything done!

### Dirk Straka

Feb 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/20/98
to

Hi John Goodwin!

J...@opticon.demon.co.uk (John Goodwin) wrote:
> Does anyone use electronic dice?
>
> There are absurdly easy to make, and should be very easy to mass
> produce.
>
> They would also be as near to 100% fair as it is possible to get if
> designed correctly (and that's not hard).

But it is hard to give proof of their fairness (esp. if you're playing for
money against a stranger) ...

--
Dirk Straka
"Ein ang'schossner Bär ist immer g'fährlicher als wie ein g'sunder"
- Charly Putz, Tuner von Andy Meklau

Feb 20, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/20/98
to

Geez, I created a heck of a discussion here... Anyway, thank you all for
clarifying my doubt about the dice.

Next time I'll bring up to discussion another controversial topic on backgammon,
so we can all be featured on Jerry Springer's show :-)

Rodrigo Limelight on Gamesgrid

### Greycat Sharpclaw

Feb 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/21/98
to

There is an allegation that J...@opticon.demon.co.uk (John Goodwin)
wrote:

(in reference to Electronic Dice)

>On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:26:08 GMT, Marina Smith wrote:

>I was assuming that only one unit would be used, and it would only
>have one go button, but I suppose that someone would find a way to rig
>things.

Quite easy.

Rig it to be biased towards certain rolls. It is biased for both
players, but the cheater knows which.

Or rig it to bias to patterns that are hard to notice but easy to use
if you already know them. Such as "doubles are likelier 3 rolls after
a 3-2 or 4-2, but less likely 3 rolls after a 2-1 or 5-1".

>It's amazing how clever cheats can be. If only they'd put that
>ingenuity to working out how to play [whatever] better.

Me, I put ingenuity into figuring out how to do things I have no
intention of actually doing. It is a good thing I don't actually test
them in practice. Some of them are _much_ more damaging than just
cheating at backgammon.

Greycat Sharpclaw

Gre...@idt.nospam.net ... remove nospam to reply
Does anyone have any spare tunafish??

### Daniel Murphy

Feb 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/21/98
to

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:35:00 GMT,
leob...@accesspro.netREMOVETEXTFOLLOWINGnet (Leo Bueno) wrote:

>On 19 Feb 1998 23:04:30 GMT, bo...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
>(Chuck Bower) wrote:
>>
>> Leo, come to your senses. Have you ever worked a lathe? These
>>devices are SUPER PRECISE. Yes, an idiot operating one would produce
>>poor quality dice, but a skilled pro (e.g. Larry Strommen, the DICEMAN)
>>has no trouble rounding the corners and keeping them balanced.
>
>
>
>Does anybody have Larry Strommen's e-mail and Web address?

dice...@msn.com

_______________________________________________
Daniel Murphy http://www.cityraccoon.com

### Leo Bueno

Feb 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/21/98
to

On Sat, 21 Feb 1998 03:32:26 GMT, rac...@cityraccoon.com (Daniel
Murphy) wrote:

>On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 16:35:00 GMT,
>leob...@accesspro.netREMOVETEXTFOLLOWINGnet (Leo Bueno) wrote:
>
>>On 19 Feb 1998 23:04:30 GMT, bo...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
>>(Chuck Bower) wrote:
>>>
>>> Leo, come to your senses. Have you ever worked a lathe? These
>>>devices are SUPER PRECISE. Yes, an idiot operating one would produce
>>>poor quality dice, but a skilled pro (e.g. Larry Strommen, the DICEMAN)
>>>has no trouble rounding the corners and keeping them balanced.
>>
>>
>>
>>Does anybody have Larry Strommen's e-mail and Web address?
>
>dice...@msn.com
>
>

Tried it yesterday. Message delivery failed (mail server said it
tried 20 times to no avail).

### Richard P. Reasin

Feb 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/21/98
to Leo Bueno

Leo Bueno wrote:

Richard Reasin
aka DiceGod on GG

### Julian

Feb 21, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/21/98
to

In article <34ec7861....@news.demon.co.uk>, John Goodwin
<J...@opticon.demon.co.uk> writes

>Does anyone use electronic dice?
>
>There are absurdly easy to make, and should be very easy to mass
>produce.
>
>They would also be as near to 100% fair as it is possible to get if
>designed correctly (and that's not hard).

... and almost impossible to convice an opponent of their fairness...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Julian Hayward 'Booles' on FIBS jul...@ratbag.demon.co.uk
+44-1344-640656 http://www.ratbag.demon.co.uk/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"At QVC our aim is 10% customer satisfaction" - QVCText
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### Leo Bueno

Feb 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/22/98
to

On Fri, 20 Feb 1998 15:40:46 -0600, Rodrigo Andrade

>Geez, I created a heck of a discussion here... Anyway, thank you all for
>clarifying my doubt about the dice.
>
>Next time I'll bring up to discussion another controversial topic on backgammon,
>so we can all be featured on Jerry Springer's show :-)
>

You'll never see me there. Now, if you can swing Ricki Lake or
Geraldo, then we are talking some business.

### Larry Strommen

Feb 22, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/22/98
to

Hi,
Precision dice mean dice which are perfectly manufactured so that no face

Thus one needs a cube with the distance between parallel faces to be within
2 parts in 10,000 - the accuracy of Casino dice. then the corners are
rounded. but there are many ways to round the corners on dice and they are
all called precision. How come? Well there is no standard established for
precision dice in the Bg community. This an oversight which is not critical
unless one is very picky. I am picky and produce precision dice with more
effort to have a perfect die than any one else.
(Note that DIE is singular for DICE)
Larry

### John Everist

Feb 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/23/98
to

In article <uhqeP7\$P9GA.256@upnetnews03>, "Larry Strommen"
<dice...@email.msn.com> wrote:

playing this weekend with 9/16" precision dice obtained from reputable
dealer....a die balanced 3 TIMES on a rounded corner....unsure if the same
one. We have been using these dice for over a year with no weirdness like
this before! A gravitational anamoly or what???

John

### Greycat Sharpclaw

Feb 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM2/23/98
to

Meow...

There is an allegation that jeve...@dakota.net (John Everist) wrote:

>playing this weekend with 9/16" precision dice obtained from reputable
>dealer....a die balanced 3 TIMES on a rounded corner....unsure if the same
>one. We have been using these dice for over a year with no weirdness like
>this before! A gravitational anamoly or what???

>John

The same dice used for a year? How much wear have they had?
Including being carried in a container that could cause wear on the
dice while they were being moved.

I do not know if this is the reason, but unless the dice are known to
be _extremely_ wear resistant, I would consider the possibility.