Cheating at Netgammon
rap...@netgammon.com
site for the past two years. I have giving more than 3500 hours online
there as sysop (free, no pay). I resigned two months ago after seeing
things are not changing for the better in any way.
Now i have taken this cheating subject public on the site and have
been banned and silenced. (nice way to treat someone who really cared
for the site).
Some players there have been cheating over and over and some of the
sysops have been letting them. The head sysop there "eliana" has no
real clue as to how and run a major backgammon site, no administration
skills and even less a clue how to handle even the most minor
situations there.
Over the past two years there i was lied to over and over and told
"please stay we (NG) are working on major issues" ie.. new versions
and help for sysops. Not one thing in has been done in that vain.
So now i have to take it to RGB , and ask what are your feelings on
this issue ?
Thank You for your time
Rapoon aka Hexx
Serious Tiger
Cheating how? Multiple accounts / players losing deliberately to
boost rankings, or anything else? More specific details please.
Christian Decroze
saying so never explain who cheats and by which ways. Some even say that the
computer limits automatically the Elo of some players, making them lose as
soon as they reach the "critical" point. I really can't imagine that there
is a sysop watching every game and influencing the rolls so that the player
they want to win actually wins !
In my opinion, these stories of cheating are just a way to make oneself
interesting...
<rap...@netgammon.com> a écrit dans le message :
39d9e16...@news.mindspring.com...
Bob Ebbeler
public with something that's been long known and tolerated, but denied and
ignored, by Netgammon sysops, I also know that you were part of the problem
during your stint at Netgammon. I know this because of several conversations
between us during the time I played on Netgammon.
First, a general observation; anyone who's ever played at ANY of the online
backgammon sites, and has an IQ in double-digits, KNOWS that cheating
occurs. The insulting thing about Netgammon is that the cheating is known
and tolerated by the sysops who then have the monumental gall to charge REAL
MONEY for membership.
Multiple nicks are common, and known, by the sysops. One highly ranked
player, Polisen/Dahlstrom_C, even referred on his infocard to his other
nick. Another current player, pippibabe/Xena_WarriorPrincess/goldilocks, has
too many nicks to count. Please don't bother to deny your knowledge of this,
because I made a point of telling you about it when I played at Netgammon.
Perhaps even more laughable is the multiple-nick, cheating, husband and wife
team of Exterminator_/Issey_Miyake who have taken turns giving points to
each other, and are now in charge of running one of the many Netgammon
tournaments.
At Netgammon the foxes watch the hen house, and the inmates run the asylum.
Netgammon has a lot to offer, it has a player base of several thousand and
features no other online backgammon site has. But knowing what I know of the
operation, nothing would persuade me to pay good money to be ripped off by
the clowns in charge.
I applaud you for finally coming forward to make the issue public. It's too
bad you didn't exercise some of your new-found integrity when you were in a
position to fix the problems.
Bob
<rap...@netgammon.com> wrote in message
news:39d9e16...@news.mindspring.com...
rap...@netgammon.com
is there a site that will take you as a member ?
You should never talk about cheats as you name would be on top of any
list.
Rapoon
Bob Ebbeler
considers beating lower rated opponents to be cheating. And, I can assure
you, Netgammon wouldn't refuse my payment for membership if I offered it.
I notice you offered no response to any of the substantive issues I set
forth, and, once again, you were part of the system I described. It's no
wonder the first two responses to your post treated it as the whinings of a
disgruntled former employee.
Bob
<rap...@netgammon.com> wrote in message
news:39da3c33...@news.mindspring.com...
rap...@netgammon.com
Rapoon
JP White
<snip>
>
> What I want to know is, when I log onto Netgammon, GamesGrid, Fibs, or
> any other server looking for a tough as nails match against a strong
> opponenet, is it possible for the dice rolls I am seeing to be
> manipulated in any way by a player, sysop, observer, hacker,
> administrator, site engineer, disgruntled former employee, etc.?
>
> Not possible.....right??
>
<snip>
Not possible is probably an overstatement. Where there is a will there is a
way.
However I believe that such manipulation is not probable. (Improbable
enough maybe to get us to the edge of the universe).
--
JP White
mailto:jpwh...@bellsouth.net
dems...@my-deja.com
who have two login accounts and boost themselves by playing one account
against the other with two computers, or some clown that likes to jerk
himself off by playing only those players with low ratings.
What I want to know is, when I log onto Netgammon, GamesGrid, Fibs, or
any other server looking for a tough as nails match against a strong
opponenet, is it possible for the dice rolls I am seeing to be
manipulated in any way by a player, sysop, observer, hacker,
administrator, site engineer, disgruntled former employee, etc.?
Not possible.....right??
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
micha...@my-deja.com
"Bob Ebbeler" <rebb...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> You've been reading too many comic books,
unless you're another one who
> considers beating lower rated opponents to be
cheating. And, I can assure
> you, Netgammon wouldn't refuse my payment for
membership if I offered it.
>
> I notice you offered no response to any of the
substantive issues I set
> forth, and, once again, you were part of the
system I described. It's no
> wonder the first two responses to your post
treated it as the whinings of a
> disgruntled former employee.
>
> Bob
>
> news:39da3c33...@news.mindspring.com...
> > BOB you should talk about integrity and then
go look in the mirror.
> > is there a site that will take you as a
member ?
> > You should never talk about cheats as you
name would be on top of any
> > list.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:45:52 -0700, "Bob
Ebbeler"
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
micha...@my-deja.com
<39da3c33...@news.mindspring.com>,
person your referring to,Xana-Warrior,Xena.
etc .etc. is a member under all her
accounts.There is no limit to the number of
accounts a paying customer can have.If she wants
to pay for 30 member names,more power to her. I
think its ridiculous but I know her
personally,she loves spending her money,so let
her.
nikos albanopoulos
players were only a few and the subscription was free. The years
passing, the membership increased considerably and by then some
problems arose. In the beginning the problems were these of the
childhood. Some angry players insulting others, some
funny ways the sysops used in order to handle the server and even some
sysops banned because they were caught to... cheat.
But these times, netgammon was really funny and I have enjoyed a lot
spending there hours every day.
When the server became bigger, the story changed. By then you could
see that new, real problems had been developed. The communication of
the server with its players deteriorated sharply. For example I
remember me asking for a CD Rom with program some dozens times and for
months before receiving it -and then I received it... three times. If
you ask something with an e-mail you will get the answer you need
after several attempts. Nobody will remind you if an exhibition game
with an expert takes place -but are these games still taking place?
They are not able to produce a printed or e-magazine with games,
analysis etc. They even still advertize their great shop and all this
shop has in its shelves last 3 years is... 3 products!!! A book, a
t-shirt and a... music CD... Some times I believe noone is anymore in
charge there.
Finally, the software remains the same for more than a year now, and
it is showing its age.
All these together, force me be online for less and less time lately.
And when I do that, I only play with one and the same friend only, the
only person I still know and respect there.
I understand rapoon's view. I know some ex-sysops and the problems
they experienced with the server. But some times these ex, showed a
masochistic stick with their "job" (it is actually payless) and so I
can't feel pity for them... They went there on their will, and stayed
too long...
I would like this server, the netgammon, be in track again. But I
doubt if it may happen...
On Tue, 03 Oct 2000 14:02:20 GMT, rap...@netgammon.com wrote:
>As a former sysop at Netgammon i have seen the steady decline of the
>site for the past two years. I have giving more than 3500 hours online
>there as sysop (free, no pay). I resigned two months ago after seeing
>things are not changing for the better in any way.
>
>Now i have taken this cheating subject public on the site and have
>been banned and silenced. (nice way to treat someone who really cared
>for the site).
>
>Some players there have been cheating over and over and some of the
>sysops have been letting them. The head sysop there "eliana" has no
>real clue as to how and run a major backgammon site, no administration
>skills and even less a clue how to handle even the most minor
>situations there.
>
>Over the past two years there i was lied to over and over and told
>"please stay we (NG) are working on major issues" ie.. new versions
>and help for sysops. Not one thing in has been done in that vain.
>
>So now i have to take it to RGB , and ask what are your feelings on
>this issue ?
>
>
>Thank You for your time
>Rapoon aka Hexx
nikalban in netgammon / gammonline
Nick Wedd
<rebb...@bellsouth.net> writes
>Multiple nicks are common, and known, by the sysops. One highly ranked
>player, Polisen/Dahlstrom_C, even referred on his infocard to his other
>nick. Another current player, pippibabe/Xena_WarriorPrincess/goldilocks, has
>too many nicks to count. Please don't bother to deny your knowledge of this,
>because I made a point of telling you about it when I played at Netgammon.
Why are multiple nicks disapproved of?
I have never played on a backgammon server, and I am asking simply
because I would like to know the answer. I do play go on go servers -
there, multiple nicks are frequent, and I have never heard any criticism
of their use. What makes backgammon different?
Nick
--
Nick Wedd ni...@maproom.co.uk
Mark Haley
netgammon festival. i can tell you that ratings boosting goes on all the
time. personally, i never really cared about this. the booster would
eventually lose the boosted points, and return to their old rating. as far
as dice manipulation, etc etc... i never saw any proof that such a thing was
going on, however, as Webby says "where theres a will, theres a way".
i have 2 accounts (paying) on GG, originally i wanted on for my wife, i
didnt take long for her to become bored og BG and she rarey ever logged in.
i now use both accounts. its nice sometimes to use her login because no one
knew her, and no one bothered her. the folks at GG know all about this, and
from what i can tell (with one exception of an overzealous community leader)
dont really care.
my "beef" with netgammon, is that we were promised a new version umpteen
times, never to be seen. the place (NG) is old and stale.
with places like GS2000 available who would ever want to play on NG?
IMO, i wont be long before people move their accounts (if they are unhappy)
to GG or GS2000, these servers offer a whole lot more, and they're constanly
upgraging.
pipp...@my-deja.com
at NG.Angry at NG to have loosed another good sysop like Rapoon,who
served his time well, looked after this site...and stuck to the rules
that NG advertises when we sign up.
Many of us paying customers, have been aware and reported cheaters, If
anything was done at all (and certain sysop excuses)thier reply was''we
are watching them''''but its now taken 1 month for these certain people
to be dealt with! finally this morning when I logged in I saw this has
been done..but wow..go invisible watch thier game...all should be over
within 20 min.Another excuse was..just ignore them! Well these are only
a few that were dealt with..others may carry on.
I am no angel, and I am not trying to justify myself..I've been silenced
more times than I can count,reason many time because in private I am not
listened to,I have to shout to be heard,but its the same people that
provoke me and not only me, because they are pets to the
madame;).Otherday I was even silenced by mistake because this certain
sysop only saw my name;)
I am sad that other sysop do not see this, there are still few good
ones, but dont you see you are loosing the best, the ones that take
action and try make this site the place it should be???
We need sysops like rapoon who will listen when we have problems, and
make this site the ''happy and fun place'' you allways mention.
but you can only make this so if you are prepared to listen, and do
something about it.
And is loosing its good customers to games grid????.
Letting hackers back on ng, and turning your back on one of the best
sysops ng has ever had..hmmmmm good example :)))
Uncle @bob'your comment about issey and exterminator is uncalled for,
they do not cheat.and if you speak to sysop you can have as many member
nicks as you want, as long as you do not play them ''rated''.
pippi etc etc
arlene
finally realized how unprofessionally and unethically Netgammon is
organized and run!!
Perhaps, had you been able to attend the Netgammon festival held in
September, 1999, you'd have witnessed, firsthand, evidence of the lack of
responsibility and professionalism displayed by a sysop who was supposedly
representing Netgammon!
I was there in Ohio. By the end of that weekend, I was appalled by the
actions (or should I say "lack of action") of someone who made those of us
who had been voluntarily devoting our time promoting and assisting players
at Negammon look like incompetent idiots!!!
That was it for me, rapoon, though it appears that "conditions" have
worsened since I left Netgammon. Having resigned as sysop from there
exactly one year ago, I am pleased to see that you have finally become
aware of all that is going on "behind the scenes" there. Your newsgroup
posting lists many of the reasons for my resignation. There was NO way
that I would continue to have my name associated with that site. I
refused to have my good name in the internet gaming community slandered
due to the actions of some at Netgammon!
Thankfully, I am no longer involved in any capacity with Netgammon. I
now have the pleasure of being affilialted with an online gamesite that
displays the highest levels of ethics and professionalism available on the
internet.
My new "home" offers continuous updates where players are able to quickly
resolve any problems they may be experiencing. (As some people have
already noted, I also tired quickly of promises that a new version would
be forthcoming at Netgammon. Though I haven't connected there for almost
one year now, I understand that there is still no updated version
available since the time I left there.)
Unfortunately, cheating is a problem that may occur on every gaming site.
This is a reality that every server must deal with. The issue at hand is
not the aspect of cheating, but HOW quickly and effectively those
representing a particular site respond when presented with such a
situation. I should point out that online gaming sites have been created,
not to promote cheating, but for entertainment and teaching purposes.
Being involved with my new site has certainly renewed my faith in humanity
where questions and problems receive an immediate response and
resolution. What a refreshing change to be online meeting friends and
playing games in my new "home"!
Yours "truly",
Arlene
Christian Decroze
My wife and I have been playing on Netgammon for several years, each with
his own account. We had lots of well-known problems.
When my abonnment expired, I didn't want to renew it and I lately got a
paying account on Gamesite2000 (http://www.gamesite2000.com). It didn't took
long before my wife wanted to rob me of my abonnement. Actually,
Gamesite2000 is FAR FAR better than any backgammon site I could experience
such as Gamesgridbeurk, VOG and so on.
Some in the Gamesite2000's staff are disgusted people coming from Netgammon.
There are lots of facilities such as an automatic record of your games on
your hard disk. The abonnment includes chess, checkers and Reversi. You can
play every game against computers. The backgammon computer is nothing less
than Snowie :-))
Try Gamesite2000 !!
IMPORTANT : I have absolutely no financial interest with Gamesite2000. I
just wrote this message because I like this site and I would like more
friendly players to join.
Mark Haley <ma...@nospamkkj.com> a écrit dans le message :
NiEC5.476$Z75....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
Christian Decroze
about http://www.gamesite2000.com
Just come and join.
<rap...@netgammon.com> a écrit dans le message :
39d9e16...@news.mindspring.com...
Bob Ebbeler
Polisen/Dahlstrom_C and several others.
I can even recall you telling me once that if one of your nicks gets off to
a bad start, you simply pay for another, and start again.
Seems rather vain and silly to me, but it's your money, and the two-dollar
whores at Netgammon certainly aren't reluctant to take it.
Bob
<pipp...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8rfjf5$30d$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Douglas Zare
> [...]
> Gamesite2000 is FAR FAR better than any backgammon site I could experience
> such as Gamesgridbeurk, VOG and so on.
> Some in the Gamesite2000's staff are disgusted people coming from Netgammon.
> There are lots of facilities such as an automatic record of your games on
> your hard disk. The abonnment includes chess, checkers and Reversi. You can
> play every game against computers. The backgammon computer is nothing less
> than Snowie :-))
Well, it's not Snowie 3, but the teacher and trainer modes are still good
additions to the raw 2.1 engine. I wish that when bored they would watch and
kibbitz, too, perhaps just for unrated matches.
> Try Gamesite2000 !!
> IMPORTANT : I have absolutely no financial interest with Gamesite2000. I
> just wrote this message because I like this site and I would like more
> friendly players to join.
Most of the players are quite friendly. The features are excellent, and I
expect them only to improve in the future. (E.g., I can't find a greedy bearoff
mode.) The real problem for me is that there are not enough players yet,
particularly at the stronger levels of play, so it can take a while to find a
game to watch or play. I encourage those of you with Windows systems to fix
this lack.
Douglas Zare
pipp...@my-deja.com
Polisen/Dahlstrom_C and several others.
I can even recall you telling me once that if one of your nicks gets
off to a bad start, you simply pay for another, and start again.
Seems rather vain and silly to me, but it's your money, and the
two-dollar whores at Netgammon certainly aren't reluctant to take it.
Bob
exactly Bob! if you had a half a diget IQ you would understand what we
are trying to tell you. All my nicks are members..but lets say for
instance I let somebody use my nick..and I play them...the match has to
be unrated...duh
Bob Ebbeler
paid nicks you have and what their purpose is.
If part of the deal at Netgammon is being able to reset at 1500, why the
need for all these nicks ? What can you accomplish with 10 nicks that you
can't accomplish with 1 ?
Oh, and I'm CERTAIN that those hawk-eyed, highly honest sysops that rapoon
blew the whistle on are watching you VERY CLOSELY to guarantee that when
you play yourself it's unrated.
A word of advice; I doubt this issue would ever go to court, but if it does,
you ought to consider an INSANITY DEFENSE.
Bob
<pipp...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8rg1hm$gfj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
titlei...@my-deja.com
comments?
1st of all it was about Netgammon and not about Gamesite 2000.
But if you want to focus on that then:
have you ever made your thoughts about the question how Xavier could
build Gamesite2000 in such a fast speed?
If you now start to think then you should involve in your thoughts that
at this point Xavier worked on NG Version 7 and then left GOTO to build
his own site. Interesting isnt it?
You dont have to be Sherlock Holmes...
So 1st think then shout.
> I absolutely agree with Mark.
> My wife and I have been playing on Netgammon for several years, each
with
> his own account. We had lots of well-known problems.
> When my abonnment expired, I didn't want to renew it and I lately got
a
> paying account on Gamesite2000 (http://www.gamesite2000.com). It
didn't took
> long before my wife wanted to rob me of my abonnement. Actually,
> Gamesite2000 is FAR FAR better than any backgammon site I could
experience
> such as Gamesgridbeurk, VOG and so on.
> Some in the Gamesite2000's staff are disgusted people coming from
Netgammon.
> There are lots of facilities such as an automatic record of your
games on
> your hard disk. The abonnment includes chess, checkers and Reversi.
You can
> play every game against computers. The backgammon computer is nothing
less
> than Snowie :-))
> Try Gamesite2000 !!
> IMPORTANT : I have absolutely no financial interest with
Gamesite2000. I
> just wrote this message because I like this site and I would like more
> friendly players to join.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Christian Decroze
things to do. As I wrote (maybe my english is not so good as yours but I
think it can be understood by anyone having learnt reading at school), I am
just a happy member of Gamesite2000 and have no interests in it.
I don't care what Xavier has done to build up his site. All I know is that I
wasn't satisfied at all with Netgammon. When complaining about something, I
had the feeling that I was speaking to a wall (a deaf wall, of course...).
The organisation of Netgammon is a mess. I am very happy that I eventually
could find a good site to play and enjoy backgammon, the rest isn't my
business. Xavier is a very friendly and POLITE man (quality that seems to
have absolutely disappeared on the Net...) and people playing on
Gamesite2000 (till now) are quite correct. The only exception, as I could
verify by myself, was promptly punished. That's all I'm asking for.
<titlei...@my-deja.com> a écrit dans le message :
8rh7i4$ei9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
jolynn84
oh lets go with this thread, I am very interested to hear your opinion on
this ..... the truth please.
Joni Patterson
jolynn84@earthlink
titlei...@my-deja.com wrote in message <8rh7i4$ei9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>SNIP*****have you ever made your thoughts about the question how Xavier
sssnet
Netgammon, but since you are making personal attacks against me I will reply
to this posting.
The reasons I left Goto are partially described in all this thread and I do
not need nor want to add anything about that.
This reply will focus on the slanderous comments concerning the creation of
GameSite 2000.
As a reminder during the 4 years I created NG, I've released 6 major
versions. Regarding version 7, I never wrote a line of code for it.
About creating GS that fast (and at least I guess I can take that part as a
compliment) well I guess I am not so bad at programming but at a rate of 15
or more hours a day, things goes pretty fast when you know what you are
doing. And that's sure that I've a lot of experience designing that kind of
software!
Note that since the initial release of GameSite 2000 there has been 4
versions released.
Out of the about 150,000 lines of codes for the server and client, not a
single one came from any work I made previously. If you had any clue about
programming you will see the following:
- The GUI is completely different as it is purely graphic and
customizable.
- The graphic part of the game is a complete different technology
(resizable, anti-aliasing, alpha blending).
- The server part is different (not that easy to see, but you can figure
that knowing that we have separated server for each game).
- There is a LOT of Features (Translation, the mail system, the
tournaments features, the Web Browser and Web Cruising, privacy, dropper
stopper feature in BG, etc.) that cannot be found in NG.
- Most of all, I guess you won't dare tell me I take Reversi, Checkers and
Chess from anyone, will you?
So what is looking the same between the 2? There are similarities, of
course, I created both and each programmer has his own way to make programs
and you can, without doubt, see the "touch" of my programming habits.
I've dedicated many years of my life to try to offer players a nice place to
play online for the games I enjoy playing. I will continue to work hard to
give the best I can do.
So I guess you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to see your attack against
me, both personally and professionally, was completely unfounded and that
GameSite 2000 is the product of hard work and dedication.
I hope this posting will clarify this point and clear this innuendo.
Xavier Dufaure de Citres
GameSite 2000 Ltd.
"You Deserve the Best"
<titlei...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8rh7i4$ei9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
pipp...@my-deja.com
understand somebody may want to write for me in baby language.
I have 10 billion nicks..ok? ..now say for example I log in 'pippibabe',
and I borrow my other nick 'xena warrior' to you..I can play you no
problem..it even gets recorded in the history...but in the history it
sais UNRATED !But I can play anybody else rated.
When I have reached 400 exp and my elo is bad like 1800 I reset to
1500..If I continue loosing after I reset, I stop to play it, get
bored.., maybe even i'm a bad looser??and buy a new one..try
again...understand???
Blond mentality...if you pay for something it has more value??.
In article <v0PC5.6322$Gc6....@news4.mco>,
Xavier Dufaure de Citres
and you can probably see the "touch" of my programming habits.
I've dedicated many years of my life to try to offer players a nice place to
play online for the games I enjoy playing. I will continue to work hard to
give the best I can do.
So I guess you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to see your attack against
me, both personally and professionally, was completely unfounded and that
GameSite 2000 is the product of hard work and dedication.
I hope this posting will clarify this point and clear this innuendo.
Xavier Dufaure de Citres
GameSite 2000 Ltd.
"You Deserve the Best"
PS : sorry about the double posting, i forgot to put my name
<titlei...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8rh7i4$ei9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
AlienUK
Froglegs
Serious Tiger
Hear, hear.
"Titleist" - the fact that Christian makes such comments MUST mean
he wants to get sysop at GS2000. Oh, or possibly he just enjoys
playing on a site which as fas as I can see has met with universal
approval from those that have played there. The original post may
have been about Netgammon, but surely it is not too much of a stretch
for even your limited imagination to see that Christian's post is
relevant since it compares and contrasts the two.
Xavier - I think anyone that has played on GS2000 and/or had any
contact with you appreciates what you have done, and enjoys not only
the site but also your courteous and efficient attitude.
BTW his comments are not slanderous, they are libellous. Xavier is
probably not petty enough to sink to that level, but they are
libellous nonetheless.
On Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:22:46 -0400, "Xavier Dufaure de Citres"
<xkl...@gamesite2000.com> wrote:
rap...@hotmail.com
>As a former sysop at Netgammon i have seen the steady decline of the
>site for the past two years. I have giving more than 3500 hours online
>there as sysop (free, no pay). I resigned two months ago after seeing
>things are not changing for the better in any way.
>
>Now i have taken this cheating subject public on the site and have
>been banned and silenced. (nice way to treat someone who really cared
>for the site).
>
>Some players there have been cheating over and over and some of the
>sysops have been letting them. The head sysop there "eliana" has no
>real clue as to how and run a major backgammon site, no administration
>skills and even less a clue how to handle even the most minor
>situations there.
>
>Over the past two years there i was lied to over and over and told
>"please stay we (NG) are working on major issues" ie.. new versions
>and help for sysops. Not one thing in has been done in that vain.
>
>So now i have to take it to RGB , and ask what are your feelings on
>this issue ?
>
>
>Thank You for your time
>Rapoon aka Hexx
I would like to thank all the people who sent comments and
email's of support.
As of Wednesday afternoon i have been banned from
Netgammon, the reason giving was my taken the cheating
subject public here.
i would like to clear up a few points from my first post.
1. Sysops letting players cheat has not been an ongoing
issue until very recently (past few months) that I'm aware of.
2. i will not post names of players that are cheating, as i think its
enough to say who is letting them do it i.e headsysop Eliana.
3. this is not a "disgruntled former employee" going off on a tangent,
but from a person who cared deeply about a the site.
I could go on and on but what's the use ? As long as its out people
can
decide on what action to take if any.
Hope to see my friends on another server soon.
Sincerely
Rapoon / Hexx
jolynn84
serious tiger!
Hope to see you soon Gene, take care and thanks ........
***SNIP>
framb...@my-deja.com
This has all been most interesting drivel here.
As one who never goes to newsgroups, I arrived at this site via a friend, to
peruse and see what "y'all had to say ! ;-)
I have read through each thread. My humble insight into all of this is that
there seemed to be (from the first thread) a strong dislike of one back
gammon site, with various and sundry complaints, and way too many accusations
and childish ramblings.
Perhaps all of you have your point to make, though, I must admit, I'm not
certain as to what it is.
Rapoon, I concur with you completely. There isn't much I haven't digested and
regurgitated over the years at the netgammon site. My apologies to those
that are my friends there.
Xavier.. I commend you for standing up to your principles. You, along with
Mikki, have created gamesite2000, and it IS YOUR creation,
which more and more people are beginning to see the best
site for backgammon, reversi, chess, checkers, longgammon, nackgammon,(oh me,
it does go on!) on the internet.
And in ending this "thread", I will only add that if you are unsatisfied with
one particular site, don't drone on and complain ad nauseum about it.
Really, what purpose does all of this serve? Grow up!
If you're unhappy with a site, go to another. Isn't that elementary enough
for you?
Smile
Various
Well done, bravo, and I do agree 100% to what you are writing
about the server !!!
I am a member to that server for a long time as well, and as you, I
did perceive a dramatical dimishing of any service at all,
and best of it: They obviously seem not to care at all as long as there
are enough dummies who still pay. You won't find any statement of Netgammon
officials anywhere even refering to the fact that their customers could
be right. Nope, nothing. That's weird. If I would treat my customers this
way, I would go bancrupt in a very short time.
What in particular made me furious in the curse of time?
- Mails, no matter what subject, had not been answered at all, no time,
not even a confirmation, simply nothing.
Additional complaint mails about the fact, that mails had not
been answered had been ignored as well.
- Exhibition matches had not been announced, but if they took place,
more then once had been delayed last minute,
played on a different server without announcement, not played at all
etc. Not once, loads of times.
- Sysops or Cosysops have been without any knowing about questions asked
about and around the server and service
at times. Sometimes, if I did ask two of them, I did get different
answers to the very same subject. This did only reflect
a deeper lack of internal communication. Apart from the fact that some
the Sysops did behave as they were gods,
arrogant and unfreindly.
- Tournaments did start with long delays as a standard. They never did
start in time and it became worse and worse, so I
did give up taking part in them at all.
- The Netgammon website as such is a laugh. It is not updated for ages now and it is no place to go to, no attraction. If I would not be able to update a newsletter anymore, I would not let it be a part of the site any longer. The actual Newsletter is of November 1999 and has remained unchanged since November 16th 1999. Wow !!!
- Any internal newsupdate is missing. That leads to that feeling to
be treated as: " Now as we have your money, we do not care
anymore".
- The whole playing athmosphere did worsen dramatically over the last
months. It did reach a peak, when some people
obviously accused of cheating and doing whatever there, did use the
internal to all dialog boxes to fight against each other,
did fight against the sysops, the administration of the server and
so on. That had been rude verbal attacks and ongoing
arguments for weeks ( !!! ). As long as this did go on, there had only
been ONE statement of Netgammon offiicials about
what was going on. It was a weak excuse, but not at all any explanation
for what was going on there.
- A poll I did take part in, launched a very while ago, style: "what could be done better" did vansih in the haze. There never had been any kind of feedback to it.
All in all:
It would be very simple to treat paying customers as adult, intellectually
and mentally grown up persons who
are able to understand a situation, if only one would explain it to
them. Simply do name what is going on, as long as you have no instant solution
to the situation.
If ever I had received a message or an announcment to all, that would have said: Listen members, we do face the following situations or problems: This and this and this is not as it should be, we do have difficulties to find a solution, but we will find one and it will be solved by the and then and then.....whenever that would have occured, I would have said: OK, they are finally aware of what is going on and work on solutions.
Not to be misunderstood: I like the site, still do, but I will play somewhere else in the future if the whole attitude does not change dramatically in a very short period of time. This simply would ask professional managment attitudes and customer care.
Netgammoners, simply do stop running your good site by full blooded amateurs, who simply will ruin it.
A final word to all the cheaters: Keep going, finally you will fail.
Your instant ego boost will collaps sooner or later and then you are outsiders,
banned, disliked and treated badly. Try a psychatrist instead, maybe that
also helps you through your weak real life performance. Possibly you won't,
as you refuse constantly to take over responsibility for your own action.
It's so easy to be a coward. You are the pest and maybe better suicide
immediately. That would be one good service to al the others.
piqu...@my-deja.com
rap...@netgammon.com wrote:
> As a former sysop at Netgammon i have seen the steady decline of the
> site for the past two years. I have giving more than 3500 hours online
> there as sysop (free, no pay). I resigned two months ago after seeing
> things are not changing for the better in any way.
>
> Now i have taken this cheating subject public on the site and have
> been banned and silenced. (nice way to treat someone who really cared
> for the site).
>
> Some players there have been cheating over and over and some of the
> sysops have been letting them. The head sysop there "eliana" has no
> real clue as to how and run a major backgammon site, no administration
> skills and even less a clue how to handle even the most minor
> situations there.
>
> Over the past two years there i was lied to over and over and told
> "please stay we (NG) are working on major issues" ie.. new versions
> and help for sysops. Not one thing in has been done in that vain.
>
> So now i have to take it to RGB , and ask what are your feelings on
> this issue ?
>
> Thank You for your time
> Rapoon aka Hexx
>
Looking at the situation on Netgammon, I have been disappointed on
many occassions by the lack of action by Mangement, I
stress "Mangement" as all sysops bar one are voulenteers, the "paid
employee" shoulders the burden of responsibility and accountability.
This does not mean "sticking ones head in the sand and hoping the
problem will go away" or suggesting innane solutions like "ignore" the
person, but this attitude is the reflection of naive youth and can be
pardoned for awhile, until people simply have had enough.
Some members of "The Team" as its called have tried to do the right
thing by the members ie : ban and sanction cheats only to have their
bans lifted by management,of course the same people then reoffend,
even recruiting some sysops or pilots to speak on their behalf
and "ask" ( I use this term loosely) you not to watch these people's
matches ( perhaps the sysops should spend more time watching these
matches so others don't need to, I thought it was part of their job to
catch cheats ) instead haressing people who do their jobs for them.
Luckily I am not a person that is easily harressed or intimidated and
this pilot was informed of the rules regarding this situation.This
brings me to my first point, Do sysops actually know the rules ? are
there any ? or is it made up as you go along or does it depend on how
they happen to feel about you personally? or the person or persons
nationality ?
The issue as I see it is : managements lack of affirmative action
which has inevitably led to the current situation. There are many good
sysops on Netgammon but when "your hands are tied" there is little you
can except "appease" people , this strategedy is obviously no longer
working.The "band-aid" solution is now being applied, certain players (
not all ) have finally been sanctioned ( yet again ) for cheating ( not
to mention there harressment of people) and the head sysop has been
appearing online and visible ( perhaps icq is down at the moment )
since rapoon went public with what most people already know.
Yes there will always be dishonest people along lifes way,
however, who is the more dishonest those that cheat or the management
that allows it to happen ?( there is also corruption with people that
hold power, another fact of life, sad but true) . Do two wrongs make a
right ? there is cheating on other sites ( many free ) does this mean
Netgammon is no better than any other site ? except members pay for the
abuse and are led to believe this behaviour won't be tolerated, that
ng "protects" its members.The term "false advertising" springs to mind.
I like so many others have made good friends on ng and continue to
go there to have fun with friends and enjoy companionship, this does
not mean we are blind to what goes on around us or are prepared" to be
led down the garden path" any longer or watch what was a good site
disintergrate any further.
I to have been silenced once by a syop that was sacked/resigned,
another by a pilot that just happens to not like me lol but it was
removed by management , funny I never did get an apology except from an
embaressed Manager ,and twice deservedly ;-)) for speaking my mind a
thing ng really dosen't like or encourage :-))
I can only say in conclusion there are solutions to these problems
starting with a "crack team" and the attitude that netgammon is a
buisness when all said and done and should be managed in a professional
and buisness like way.The Management is not there to make friends but
to run a buisness and make money and keep the customers satisfied.
piquant
PS Rapoon I am disappointed to see netgammons response to your honesty
obviously you are a threat to there hierarchy and rather than deal with
the issues at hand choose the usual course of action to sweep it under
the carpet. Yet continue to allow the cheating members ( with umteen
non-member accounts , nice rip off that is ) and known hackers to
stay/return to the site and continue with there behaviour. But those
that behave in an honourable and honest manner are banned. Good logic ?
doubl...@my-deja.com
there's only one thing i would like to say to this threat
You'll be missed and be sure that we'll meet on another server someday.
;-))
Andreas
P.S. but i have another funny story too
for joke i made an trial account who's nick is "Ex-sysop"
(yes i'm a retired sysop too, looks as if there are plenty out there
LOL)
and i was silenced just after the trouble with Rapoon began. Now that i
talked to Malory alias Eliana i know the reason why.
"I dont like your info. it isnt cool" (thats what Malory said)
My Info says
4 Ike - One of the best who left
yes really pretty uncool. damn how could i make such uncool statement
That is my story for the day to let you see how things get handled
there.
pipp...@my-deja.com
sofia_...@my-deja.com
After read all the post in here, I am totally agree with Arlene and
Framboise.
In our new home www.gamesite2000.com , things are handle different and
everything run smoothly, we have a great team there, nice people and
the most important, good atention!!!
Like many of us, we had so many memories from Netgammon and when i
quit, I left many good friends there, but Netgammon is history, I dont
want to tell all my bad experiences there but NG everyday is going
down and down....and people is not guilty, all of you deserv a better
place, thats why I invite you all to try and see what I am talking
about, what means a real service and support in friendly place.
There is so much things to do and discover on gamesite, and I am sure,
soon or later I will meet you all again in our new home ! and better
soon than later :)
see u there!
Sofia
In article <39DB4F88...@home.com>,
> rap...@netgammon.com wrote:
>
> > As a former sysop at Netgammon i have seen the steady decline of the
> > site for the past two years. I have giving more than 3500 hours
online
> > there as sysop (free, no pay). I resigned two months ago after
seeing
> > things are not changing for the better in any way.
> >
> > Now i have taken this cheating subject public on the site and have
> > been banned and silenced. (nice way to treat someone who really
cared
> > for the site).
> >
> > Some players there have been cheating over and over and some of the
> > sysops have been letting them. The head sysop there "eliana" has no
> > real clue as to how and run a major backgammon site, no
administration
> > skills and even less a clue how to handle even the most minor
> > situations there.
> >
> > Over the past two years there i was lied to over and over and told
> > "please stay we (NG) are working on major issues" ie.. new versions
> > and help for sysops. Not one thing in has been done in that vain.
> >
> > So now i have to take it to RGB , and ask what are your feelings on
> > this issue ?
> >
> > Thank You for your time
> > Rapoon aka Hexx
>
>
sofia_...@my-deja.com
Webby
think about it.
Gamesite2000 has potential but unless it sorts its watching / Graphic
display bug out and starts to attract a half arse decent number of players
my money is staying with Gamesgrid. I was at Gamessite just 1 month ago and
i must say I was disapointed by the features and attendance. I'll visit
again in 3 months. As I said.. it has potential but a gamesgrid I don't
think it will ever be.
Alan
Webby's Backgammon Site
http://www.isg-vsg.de/backgammon/BGHome.htm
sofia_...@my-deja.com schrieb in Nachricht
<8s1lul$316$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
blue...@my-deja.com
simple "cheaters" and complaints about rolls and has become a
discussion about bad management - moral and ethics - and closing the
eyes for facts presented. I have had a lot of experiences at Netgammon
(NG)- most of them have been good – a lot of friendly games and meeting
people from all over the world, and many I also met in person over the
years.
BUT I know from personal experience that sanctioning cheaters, hackers
and other dishonest people is always held up against the problems this
person could cause for NG and the cost of losing members or the
reputation of the place. I still have a members account there, but most
of my friends and me already long ago gave up on things ever to change
there – we simply got tired of being ignored when we brought forward an
issue to make things better - and we moved to Gamesite2000. It is good
to see that now the last of the "old" sysops also have come to the
conclusion, that trying to cover the mistakes and the bad management
must have a limit and that this has been reached now. We sure could
have used these backup long ago dear friends :-))
It is sad that the potentials of NG are not used better in the interest
of all the members there.
Over the years I have tried all the mayor Backgammon places on the net –
and as I said - right now my fav place is GS2000. And as all main
personalities at GS2000 are former NG sysops or employees I am
convinced that my new site has already learned from the mistakes done
at NG – well I hope some have the strength to stay at NG and fight for
the members to be heard and trying to make NG what it used to be – I
wish them best of luck. But I am only there for pleasure and enjoyment –
so I do prefer a place where the lines of communication are shorter
and where you are not silenced or ignored when you present a problem or
an issue that is on your mind – I do like it when the opposite happens
and you are listened to and taken serious.
Friendly regards
BlueDice
In article <8roqvu$9oe$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
pipp...@my-deja.com
1ice...@my-deja.com
pipp...@my-deja.com
In article <8s6aj7$vbp$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
tafa...@my-deja.com
This letter is a test to be sure that what happened to the original
author
only happened because she was a "Team" member, as I was told by another
'Team" member. In any case, I would like to concentrate on the contents
of
this letter not who wrote it !!.
I hope this letter will be given the correct consideration.
Goodbye
Vladimir Kuznetsov
Guys,
can somebody explain what kind of cheating goes on on NG? I was
playing there for more then a year and did not notice any signs of
cheating. Yes, sometimes you can see you ELO dropped 100 points,
but it is kind of expected, is not it?
Anyway, instead of whinig about cheating, can somebody provide
concrete examples of cheating on NG?
Thx
vlad
In article <8rfjf5$30d$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, <pipp...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>I am very sad, and at the same time very angry to see what has happened
>at NG.Angry at NG to have loosed another good sysop like Rapoon,who
>served his time well, looked after this site...and stuck to the rules
>that NG advertises when we sign up.
>
>Many of us paying customers, have been aware and reported cheaters, If
>anything was done at all (and certain sysop excuses)thier reply was''we
>are watching them''''but its now taken 1 month for these certain people
>to be dealt with! finally this morning when I logged in I saw this has
>been done..but wow..go invisible watch thier game...all should be over
>within 20 min.Another excuse was..just ignore them! Well these are only
>a few that were dealt with..others may carry on.
>
>I am no angel, and I am not trying to justify myself..I've been silenced
>more times than I can count,reason many time because in private I am not
>listened to,I have to shout to be heard,but its the same people that
>provoke me and not only me, because they are pets to the
>madame;).Otherday I was even silenced by mistake because this certain
>sysop only saw my name;)
>
>I am sad that other sysop do not see this, there are still few good
>ones, but dont you see you are loosing the best, the ones that take
>action and try make this site the place it should be???
>
>We need sysops like rapoon who will listen when we have problems, and
>make this site the ''happy and fun place'' you allways mention.
>but you can only make this so if you are prepared to listen, and do
>something about it.
>
>And is loosing its good customers to games grid????.
>
>Letting hackers back on ng, and turning your back on one of the best
>sysops ng has ever had..hmmmmm good example :)))
>
>Uncle @bob'your comment about issey and exterminator is uncalled for,
>they do not cheat.and if you speak to sysop you can have as many member
>nicks as you want, as long as you do not play them ''rated''.
>
>pippi etc etc
lenna...@gmail.com
> As a former sysop at Netgammon i have seen the steady decline of the
> site for the past two years. I have giving more than 3500 hours online
> there as sysop (free, no pay). I resigned two months ago after seeing
> things are not changing for the better in any way.
>
> Now i have taken this cheating subject public on the site and have
> been banned and silenced. (nice way to treat someone who really cared
> for the site).
>
> Some players there have been cheating over and over and some of the
> sysops have been letting them. The head sysop there "eliana" has no
> real clue as to how and run a major backgammon site, no administration
> skills and even less a clue how to handle even the most minor
> situations there.
>
> Over the past two years there i was lied to over and over and told
> "please stay we (NG) are working on major issues" ie.. new versions
> and help for sysops. Not one thing in has been done in that vain.
>
> So now i have to take it to RGB , and ask what are your feelings on
> this issue ?
>
>
> Thank You for your time
> Rapoon aka Hexx
just install gnu backgammon..ask from a web developer to write a simple code for ur online reciving data from netgammon.. some players have computer science experience ..
suppose u play with a cheater..u play (24-21, 13-11)for example.. cheater's computer recieve that data..this data is given to manual gnu backgammon and the cheater have 43 from dice..this data is also given to his manual gnu backgammon! and the answer of gnu is sent to netgammon! its very simple..u can ask from a web developer to do this with some simple code..
and i want to say the cheaters move very fast..have u ever noticed this???
because the code works very fast !