Blackjack Card Counting Ruling in Indiana
Paul Popinjay
a dumb ass and has just made it harder for card counters. If the government
forces the casinos to allow a player to count cards, the casinos will
definitely take countermeasures that will essentially ruin it for everyone.
Although I understand the game dealt in Indiana was not that good anyway,
this will make it even worse. The player in question just shot himself and
all other advantage players in the foot. Very short-sighted. Whatta
maroon!!!
Here is a link.
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/21476302/detail.html
"INDIANAPOLIS -- The Indiana Court of Appeals ruled Friday that a casino had
no legal right to ban a blackjack player who admitted counting cards to gain
a competitive advantage.
Thomas Donovan sued the Grand Victoria Casino and Resort after he was banned
from the facility in Rising Sun in August 2006.
Donovan admitted to casino officials that he counted cards, a practice in
which a player keeps mental track of the cards already played during the
game to adjust his wagers and improve his odds of winning additional money."
-Paul Popinjay
Will in New Haven
wrote:
You are absolutely correct, Paul. The casino has always had ways to
make counting unprofitable and, with automatic shuffling machines, has
an easy and non-confrontational way to do it today. Several ways to do
it come to mind, and I'm sure a sophisticated casino person could
think of more:
Shuffle every time (bringing in a replacement shoe so as not to slow
the game down) every time a player significantly increases the size of
his or her bet. This makes the counter a "scout" for the casino,
killing every hot (for the players) deck and disadvantaging all the
players. The false positives, when a player just felt like increasing
the size of the bet, won't cost the casino anything. Someone doubling
his bet to _induce_ a shuffle might be able to kill a cold deck but
that, counting cards to do that, would be a lot of work just to get
back to a small minus position.
To combat the counters calling in their colleague to make the big bets
when the deck is hot, a "courtesy shuffle" whenever someone new comes
to the table. These shuffling tactics would have been a PitA before
shuffling machines but they won't slow the game up now.
--
Will in New Haven
BillB
"Paul Popinjay" <paulpo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:hcqr2i$e5i$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> "INDIANAPOLIS -- The Indiana Court of Appeals ruled Friday that a
> casino had
> no legal right to ban a blackjack player who admitted counting cards
> to gain
> a competitive advantage.
>
> Thomas Donovan sued the Grand Victoria Casino and Resort after he
> was banned
> from the facility in Rising Sun in August 2006.
>
> Donovan admitted to casino officials that he counted cards, a
> practice in
> which a player keeps mental track of the cards already played during
> the
> game to adjust his wagers and improve his odds of winning additional
> money."
I was going to say he must be going for substantial damages, maybe
punitive damages, so he doesn't care. But taking a quick look at the
actual decision, it appears that he only sought, and got, a
declaratory judgment (i.e. "they can't stop you from playing"). You're
right...he's a maroon! This is the US of A we're talking about! He
should have gotten at least $154 million in punitive damages!
Alim Nassor
wrote:
Won't be long till all casinos use constant shuffle machines. The
Indian casinos in Oklahoma already do. I don't play blackjack there
anyway due to the stupid ante you have to pay just to get dealt each
hand. It goes directly to the state. But every hand dealt gets put
into the shuffle machine immediately and there is zero chance of
counting cards.
Jason Pawloski
I doubt it. You could say the same thing about 6:5 blackjack as continuous
shufflers. There's always idiots who will play it, but by-and-large and
amount of 6:5 blackjack seems to be holding steady, and only the notorious
bad spots outside of the strip really offer 6:5 bj (read: Harrah's).
I've yet to see a CSM in Nevada. I've seen them in AZ, but only at the
lowest limits. And those are the tables that are absolutely packed, so I
think it has more to do with maximizing hands per hour (and therefore
maximizing win by the casino) than deterring card counters).
--
Voted RGP's Stupidest Poster on 3/22/09
"BART [Bay Area Rapid Transit] is rather new." - Jerry Sturdivant chiming
in on how little he knows about a train system that's been operational
since 1972
_______________________________________________________________________�
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K9way
like you are making millions at bj ?
Just when you think that youve been gypped ..the bearded lady comes and
does a double back flip!!! John Hiatt in "Buffalo River Home"
________________________________________________________________________�
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
BillB
"Jason Pawloski" <a67...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
news:i5g7s6x...@recgroups.com...
> I doubt it. You could say the same thing about 6:5 blackjack as
> continuous
> shufflers. There's always idiots who will play it, but by-and-large
> and
> amount of 6:5 blackjack seems to be holding steady, and only the
> notorious
> bad spots outside of the strip really offer 6:5 bj (read: Harrah's).
Not everyone who plays 6:5 blackjack is an idiot. Do the math.
Clave
news:pdg7s6x...@recgroups.com...
Yep -- he's making millions, $5 at a time...
Oh, you meant blackjack.
Sorry, my mind wanders. Ask anyone.
Jim
Paul Popinjay
news:pdg7s6x...@recgroups.com...
>
> like you are making millions at bj ?
>
No, of course not. But I've got a little notebook with the location of over
30 favorable video blackjack machine situations that I've pulled $50 grand
out of over the last two calendar years. Flat-betting $10 and enjoying
rather low variance, thank you! And how's life been treating you lately,
Rail Doggy? Well, I hope.
Paul Popinjay
news:lq8Im.335$6c2...@newsfe03.iad...
>
>
> Not everyone who plays 6:5 blackjack is an idiot. Do the math.
Speaking of which, many non-idiots found that the casinos' introduction of
handheld 6-5 games re-opened the opportunity to "hole card". And without
the heat!
BillB
"Paul Popinjay" <paulpo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:hcr5nh$85t$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Not everyone who plays 6:5 blackjack is an idiot. Do the math.
>
>
> Speaking of which, many non-idiots found that the casinos'
> introduction of handheld 6-5 games re-opened the opportunity to
> "hole card". And without the heat!
That too, but I'm thinking even more basic than that..
When I'm playing poker, my wife is usually sitting at 6:5 table.
1) Lowest limits in the house, and I have her well trained to play
mostly minimum bets (once in a while she's allowed to double her
bet...lol) If she gets stuck she'll throw down the odd green chip, but
that is exceedingly rare.
2) Single or double deck pitch game. That's all she wants to play. She
wants to *touch* her cards. She hates playing from a shoe.
3)Far fewer hands per hour than auto-shuffle or shoe = less house ev
all things being equal.
4) Games tend to stay full longer, further reducing the total hands
dealt
5)More favorable rules aside from the 6:5. No, it doesn't make up the
odds, but it makes the game more fun when you can resplit and double
on any two.
6) If she's betting $5, at 3:2 blackjack the dealer invariably gets
the 50 cent chip tipped on a blackjack, further reducing the
difference. At 6:5, the dealer usually gets stiffed lol.
The house ev works out to something like $5/hr or less for her, which
she more than gets back in free drinks. She has a great time and gets
loaded for less than the price of going bowling.
I didn't raise her to be an idiot.
Paul Popinjay
>
>
> The house ev works out to something like $5/hr or less for her, which she
> more than gets back in free drinks. She has a great time and gets loaded
> for less than the price of going bowling.
>
That's probably less than what Jason loses while getting schnockered at the
bar while playing 7-5 Bonus Poker.
Beldin the Sorcerer
That explains a lot.
>
Jason Pawloski
So it turns out that bar gives about 1%-1.5% cash back (true cash back) of
coin in. And it has one of those wheels that spins on the "card of the
day" (which is always 6s, 7s, 8s, 9s, 10s). Even if you assume I always
get $10 from the wheel, which I believe is the worst slice, that puts the
overall payback at about 99.5%. Plus the free drinks.
SNAP BITCH! WHAT NOW MOTHERFUCKER!
Jason Pawloski
You know what's funny is I used nearly this *exact* same argument against
Paul Popinjay on 1:1 blackjack bartops vs 3:2 table games, which caused
him to ridicule me. LOL
--
Voted RGP's Stupidest Poster on 3/22/09
"BART [Bay Area Rapid Transit] is rather new." - Jerry Sturdivant chiming
in on how little he knows about a train system that's been operational
since 1972
________________________________________________________________________�
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BillB
"Jason Pawloski" <a67...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
news:dkm7s6x...@recgroups.com...
> On Nov 3 2009 11:32 PM, BillB wrote:
> You know what's funny is I used nearly this *exact* same argument
> against
> Paul Popinjay on 1:1 blackjack bartops vs 3:2 table games, which
> caused
> him to ridicule me. LOL
Bottom line is you just have to know roughly what the house ev is and
be able to say objectively that
1)it's worth it to you in entertainment value/hr, and
2) there's no better entertainment value for you readily available.
If you do that, roulette could be the best game in the casino for
*you*. Nobody else can make that call.
They brought in 6:5 because there's lots of blackjack players like my
wife who are happy to sit there all night drinking and socializing
making small bets, and the casino was losing money feeding them drinks
and paying someone to deal to them. Even at 6:5 I think they are still
losing money overall on the min. bet players.
Paul Popinjay
>
> You know what's funny is I used nearly this *exact* same argument against
> Paul Popinjay on 1:1 blackjack bartops vs 3:2 table games, which caused
> him to ridicule me. LOL
You know what's funny? I don't remember that. That's what. ha ha
Paul Popinjay
>
> So it turns out that bar gives about 1%-1.5% cash back (true cash back) of
> coin in. And it has one of those wheels that spins on the "card of the
> day" (which is always 6s, 7s, 8s, 9s, 10s). Even if you assume I always
> get $10 from the wheel, which I believe is the worst slice, that puts the
> overall payback at about 99.5%. Plus the free drinks.
>
> SNAP BITCH! WHAT NOW MOTHERFUCKER!
>
At the risk of sounding Beldinesque, seems like that would be closer to
99.7 if there were 1.5% cb, at the worst slice, numbnuts.
Alim Nassor
>
> - Show quoted text -
You have a point. I wanted to have a t-shirt made up last time I was
in Vegas that said 6 to 5 AINT BLACKJACK. But like you say the tables
are packed.
Just like the 5 buck tables at Winstar in OK are packed even though
the idiots there are GIVING AWAY 10% before the cards are even dealt
due to the ridiculous ante.
I guess under the other slogan my T-shirt could say, THERE AINT NO
ANTE IN BLACKJACK. But most people wouldn't understand.
Peg Smith
<bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>To combat the counters calling in their colleague to make the big bets
>when the deck is hot, a "courtesy shuffle" whenever someone new comes
>to the table. These shuffling tactics would have been a PitA before
>shuffling machines but they won't slow the game up now.
Harrah's here in Kansas City has a policy in their high limit games of
"no mid-shoe entry". A new player has to wait for a new shoe. Also, in
their single-deck game, blackjack pays 6:5 rather than the normal 3:2.
Peg
Will in New Haven
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 19:18:05 -0800 (PST), Will in New Haven
>
> >To combat the counters calling in their colleague to make the big bets
> >when the deck is hot, a "courtesy shuffle" whenever someone new comes
> >to the table. These shuffling tactics would have been a PitA before
> >shuffling machines but they won't slow the game up now.
>
> Harrah's here in Kansas City has a policy in their high limit games of
> "no mid-shoe entry". A new player has to wait for a new shoe. Also, in
> their single-deck game, blackjack pays 6:5 rather than the normal 3:2.
For decades, casinos used confrontational and frankly unpleasant
methods to deal with people who were only trying to play the game as
well as possible. With the shuffling machines we won't see much of
that anymore. Frankly, I don't know how anyone could play and not have
a very good idea of the state of the deck. With no elaborate system or
aides, you would simply _notice_ the cards as they come out. Anyone
who has played a lot of bridge or gin or even stud poker would have to
know enough to adjust his or her betting. I guess you could just
refrain from looking at the cards that fell for the other players.
K9way
_______________________________________________________________________�
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K9way
it just worked out that way ?
Just when you think that youve been gypped ..the bearded lady comes and
does a double back flip!!! John Hiatt in "Buffalo River Home"
----�
Jerry Sturdivant
"Peg Smith"
> Harrah's here in Kansas City has a policy in their high
> limit games of "no mid-shoe entry". A new player has to
> wait for a new shoe. Also, in their single-deck game, blackjack
> pays 6:5 rather than the normal 3:2.
For the unwary players on the Strip, there are other things to watch for
such as pushes and whether Dealer hits soft 17. The locals know where the
best odds are.
Jerry (a local) 'n Vegas
- We must believe in free will. We have no choice...
Clave
news:5wmIm.8572$Mg....@newsfe01.iad...
>
> "Peg Smith"
>
>
>
>> Harrah's here in Kansas City has a policy in their high
>> limit games of "no mid-shoe entry". A new player has to
>> wait for a new shoe. Also, in their single-deck game, blackjack
>> pays 6:5 rather than the normal 3:2.
>
> For the unwary players on the Strip, there are other things to watch for
> such as pushes and whether Dealer hits soft 17. The locals know where the
> best odds are.
Can you still get hand-dealt two-deck 3:2 downtown (Lady Luck,
Horseshoe...)?
It's been a few years.
Jim
da pickle
> Can you still get hand-dealt two-deck 3:2 downtown (Lady Luck,
> Horseshoe...)?
>
> It's been a few years.
"Horseshoe" ???
It has been a few, eh, Jim?
Clave
news:2Y6dncSdl5U...@giganews.com...
I heard about the buyout -- they didn't keep the name?
Jim
Paul Popinjay
>
> Can you still get hand-dealt two-deck 3:2 downtown (Lady Luck,
> Horseshoe...)?
>
Yeah, great game at the Lady Luck right now, Clave, same exact rules as the
games at the Roadhouse.
Clave
Guess I hadn't heard about that. Oh well.
Jim
BillB
"K9way" <ad1...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
news:s869s6...@recgroups.com...
> it just worked out that way ?
What a worthless coward you are.
Alim Nassor
Last time I was there they were cutting the Horseshoe letters off the
front of the building with a cutting torch. I was hoping it was just
time for an upgrade. I guess not.
Jerry Sturdivant
"Clave"
>> For the unwary players on the Strip, there are other things
>> to watch for such as pushes and whether Dealer hits soft
>> 17. The locals know where the best odds are.
> Can you still get hand-dealt two-deck 3:2
> downtown (Lady Luck, Horseshoe...)?
>
> It's been a few years.
Don�t go to Freemont Street much anymore since they closed the only good
restaurant. Back where Lady Luck is, has become really run down. Even they
whores look bad.
Anyway, some places let you double down on anything; some won�t let you
double split pairs. I don�t play it so I don�t pay much attention. They odds
are against you.
Jerry (odd) n Vegas
- May you be cursed by a Gypsy who stutters...
K9way
its a joke .. you teed it up wat too high .
lighten up Francis !!
Just when you think that youve been gypped ..the bearded lady comes and
does a double back flip!!! John Hiatt in "Buffalo River Home"
-----�
BillB
"K9way" <ad1...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
news:6hbbs6x...@recgroups.com...
> On Nov 4 2009 8:35 PM, BillB wrote:
> its a joke .. you teed it up wat too high .
>
> lighten up Francis !!
Joke about me, not my wife. She is not here to defend herself.
phlash74
> "K9way" <ad1...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
> news:pdg7s6x...@recgroups.com...
> > like you are making millions at bj ?
>
>
> Yep -- he's making millions, $5 at a time...
>
> Oh, you meant blackjack.
>
> Sorry, my mind wanders. Ask anyone.
>
> Jim
Apologies to Morphy for lifting this from his blog...
DOKTER DONKEY says "IT TOOK ME 25 MINS TO REALIZE THAT BJ MEANT BLACKJACK".
DOKTER DONKEY says "YOU CAN IMAGINE MY DISAPPOINTMENT".
Michael
U.S. American
-----------------
"Frankly, I think this was a good post. And on its merit too, not just
because you jammed it up Irish Mike's ass pretty good. Icing on the cake.
lol"
-Paul Popinjay, 3/19/08
Will in New Haven
You should apologize to yourself for admitting that you read it, or
look at it, whatever one does. This joke, however, is not terrible.
Not bad at all.
da pickle
>> its a joke .. you teed it up wat too high .
>>
>> lighten up Francis !!
>
> Joke about me, not my wife. She is not here to defend herself.
You are brilliant, Bill ... how's that?
What did you mean about "raising" your wife? Down here, that might be
misconstrued.
K9way
YOU ARE 100% OUTTA YOUR FUCKIN MIND
Just when you think that youve been gypped ..the bearded lady comes and
does a double back flip!!! John Hiatt in "Buffalo River Home"
______________________________________________________________________�
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
K9way
> "Paul Popinjay" <paulpo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:hcr5nh$85t$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
> >> Not everyone who plays 6:5 blackjack is an idiot. Do the math.
> >
> >
> > Speaking of which, many non-idiots found that the casinos'
> > introduction of handheld 6-5 games re-opened the opportunity to
> > "hole card". And without the heat!
>
>
> That too, but I'm thinking even more basic than that..
>
> When I'm playing poker, my wife is usually sitting at 6:5 table.
>
> 1) Lowest limits in the house, and I have her well trained to play
> mostly minimum bets (once in a while she's allowed to double her
> bet...lol) If she gets stuck she'll throw down the odd green chip, but
> that is exceedingly rare.
> 2) Single or double deck pitch game. That's all she wants to play. She
> wants to *touch* her cards. She hates playing from a shoe.
> 3)Far fewer hands per hour than auto-shuffle or shoe = less house ev
> all things being equal.
> 4) Games tend to stay full longer, further reducing the total hands
> dealt
> 5)More favorable rules aside from the 6:5. No, it doesn't make up the
> odds, but it makes the game more fun when you can resplit and double
> on any two.
> 6) If she's betting $5, at 3:2 blackjack the dealer invariably gets
> the 50 cent chip tipped on a blackjack, further reducing the
> difference. At 6:5, the dealer usually gets stiffed lol.
>
She has a great time and gets
> loaded for less than the price of going bowling.
>
"ONE NORMALLY HAS TO GO TO A BOWLING ALLEY TO FIND A WOMAN OF YOUR
STATURE"
John Gielgud in "Arthur "
literally spit soda out on the screen when I read this !!
Just when you think that youve been gypped ..the bearded lady comes and
does a double back flip!!! John Hiatt in "Buffalo River Home"
--------�
K9way
wouldnt 'smater" locals know better than to play ?
Just when you think that youve been gypped ..the bearded lady comes and
does a double back flip!!! John Hiatt in "Buffalo River Home"
--------�
BillB
"K9way" <ad1...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
news:hnfcs6x...@recgroups.com...
> YOU ARE 100% OUTTA YOUR FUCKIN MIND
It took you two days to come up with a meaningless one liner? No, I am
not out of my mind.
BillB
"K9way" <ad1...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
news:rsfcs6x...@recgroups.com...
> "ONE NORMALLY HAS TO GO TO A BOWLING ALLEY TO FIND A WOMAN OF YOUR
> STATURE"
>
> John Gielgud in "Arthur "
One normally has to go to a pre-school to find someone of your
intelligence.
Jerry Sturdivant
"K9way"
>> For the unwary players on the Strip, there are other things
>> to watch for such as pushes and whether Dealer hits soft 17.
>> The locals know where the best odds are.
> wouldnt 'smater" locals know better than to play ?
Yea, the smarter ones. There are those that have deluded themselves into
believing they can beat the game. You know the kind: "I've never had to pay
for a piece of ass." "They usually comp me." "I usually win." "I'm ahead of
the game."
The slightly smarter ones that gamble just for entertainment and the social
aspect look for the least worst odds. Like when I play the crap table just
for entertainment, I know which bets have the least worst odd. For the
really lazy, they go play bingo and chat with their friends.
Jerry 'n Vegas
- "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" - Freud
Paul Popinjay
Valid point, but the game IS certainly beatable. I doubt if you have what
it takes. I don't mean that as a put-down, but I am almost certain you
could never do it. Neither you, nor Doggy. In fact, we all know that John
the Savage, aka Ruy Lopez, could not cut the mustard, and he's smarter than
both of you.
-PP
Jerry Sturdivant
"Paul Popinjay"
>> The slightly smarter ones that gamble just for entertainment
>> and the social aspect look for the least worst odds. Like when
>> I play the crap table just for entertainment, I know which bets
>> have the least worst odd. For the really lazy, they go play
>> bingo and chat with their friends.
> Valid point, but the game IS certainly beatable.
> I doubt if you have what it takes.
You�ll have to doubt your doubts; I have what it takes to beat blackjack. I
bought the book years ago; read it; memorized applicable portions; used it
and it worked. Tossed the book because they�re watching counters now.
> I don't mean that as a put-down, but I
> am almost certain you could never do it.
Along with doubting your doubts you can be uncertain about your certainties.
> In fact, we all know that John the Savage, aka Ruy Lopez, could
> not cut the mustard, and he's smarter than both of you.
Along with doubting your doubts; being uncertain about your certainties; you�ll
have to reevaluate your thinking altogether.
�I don�t mean that as a put-down�.�
Jerry (putting up) �n Vegas
- You can beat a dead horse, but you can't make him drink...
Paul Popinjay
>
>
>> Valid point, but the game IS certainly beatable.
>> I doubt if you have what it takes.
>
> You'll have to doubt your doubts; I have what it takes to beat blackjack.
> I
> bought the book years ago; read it; memorized applicable portions; used it
> and it worked. Tossed the book because they're watching counters now.
>
Frankly, Jerry, a chimpanzee could probably learn how to count cards and
apply basic counting strategy. But, as you say, they're "watching" now.
That means, that winning blackjack players must employ different technique,
amongst those being methods to assure that one remains under the radar, so
to speak. That's why I say that I doubt you have what it takes, because it
requires, first of all, intellect, and second of all, extensive familiarity
with blackjack theory, neither of which you or the chimpanzee would ever be
willing to commit yourselves to. Face it, Jerry, you're just a dumb ape.
Jerry Sturdivant
"Paul Popinjay"
>>> Valid point, but the game IS certainly beatable.
>>> I doubt if you have what it takes.
>> You'll have to doubt your doubts; I have what it takes
>> to beat blackjack. I bought the book years ago; read it;
>> memorized applicable portions; used it and it worked.
>> Tossed the book because they're watching counters now.
> That's why I say that I doubt you have what it takes�.
Coming from a guy with doubtful doubts; uncertain certainties and the
inability to evaluate; your opinions are worthless. No offense but thanks
for trying.
Jerry �n Vegas
- The real reason you can't take it with you: It goes before you do.
Paul Popinjay
>
>
> Coming from a guy with doubtful doubts; uncertain certainties and the
> inability to evaluate; your opinions are worthless. No offense but thanks
> for trying.
>
Clint, (do you mind if I call you Clint, Jerry?), I seriously doubt if
anyone who still reads this cesspool of a newsgroup could come close to
matching my knowledge of blackjack and what it takes to beat the game. And
I'm talking about the smart people on this group. Yes, there ARE smart
people still on this group. But that does not include you, numb nuts. So,
the only reason you think my opinion is worthless, is because you are
worthless. I mean seriously, why would I expect someone who is dumb to
realize that they are dumb? Think about it, Einstein!
Jerry Sturdivant
"Paul Popinjay"
>> Coming from a guy with doubtful doubts; uncertain certainties
>> and the inability to evaluate; your opinions are worthless. No
>> offense but thanks for trying.
> Clint, (do you mind if I call you Clint, Jerry?)
Another �mind� problem?
> I seriously doubt if �.
There you go again�.
> � my knowledge of blackjack and what it takes to beat the game.
We can tell from your untold wealth. As I said earlier, this town is full
of, �I�m good.� �I don�t pay for sex.� �I can beat the system.� �I always
come out ahead.�
Keep coming back, PP; it�s how we keep the lights on in Vegas.
Jerry �n Vegas
- Do you get it yet?..........thought not!
Paul Popinjay
>
>
> We can tell from your untold wealth. As I said earlier, this town is full
> of, "I'm good." "I don't pay for sex." "I can beat the system." "I always
> come out ahead."
>
I don't pay for sex. I don't even have sex.
> Keep coming back, PP; it's how we keep the lights on in Vegas.
>
Clint, I've owned a major casino in Henderson, you don't have to tell me how
we pay the light bills. But if you do not believe that there are still
people making serious money at blackjack, then you are quite mistaken.
Maverick
> "Clave" <ClaviusNoSpamDam...@cablespeed.com> wrote in message
Same loser pitbosses at each, too.
Paul Popinjay
news:48c94530-9f57-4c2d-be8e-
> Same loser pitbosses at each, too.
>
Yes, Sensei, they are EXACTLY the same.
Travel A
"Clave"
Can you still get hand-dealt two-deck 3:2 downtown (Lady Luck,
Horseshoe...)?
It's been a few years.
Pickel wrote:
"Horseshoe" ???
It has been a few, eh, Jim?
Clave wrote:
I heard about the buyout -- they didn't keep the name?
Jim
I wrote:
Harrah's bought Binion's Horseshoe and then "flipped" it to MTR Group.
When Harrah's sold the hotel/casino to MTR Group, Harrah's kept the
ownership of the "Horseshoe" brand name as well as the WSOP; that's why
they bought the property in the first place.
That's why Binion's was named just "Binion's" and not "Binion's
Horseshoe." after the sale to MTR Group..
What did Harrah's intend to do with the name "Horseshoe? Harrah's was
going to build a new flagship hotel and casino on The Strip named the
"Horseshoe."
Those plans had to be put on hold because of the economy/world-wide
financial crisis caused by Barney Frank.
Jerry Sturdivant
"Paul Popinjay"
>> Keep coming back, PP; it's how we keep the lights on in Vegas.
> But if you do not believe that there are still people making serious
> money at blackjack, then you are quite mistaken.
They�re called casinos.
Jerry (with the lights on) �n Vegas
- Facts do not cease to exist just because they are ignored.