JACKS OR BETTER - TRIPS TO WIN/QUES
Janis Liiv
Scenario: Five players, cards have been dealt a NUMBER of times with
either no one being able to open, or if someone opened, no one winning
with 3 of a kind. Everyone antes up before each deal, and bets are made
throughout the game. If someone decides fold, they're out of the game
until someone finally wins. There is about $70.00 in the pot. Everyone
is in the game.
Dilemna: I open with a pair of queens and bet $2.50 - max bet.
Everyone calls
I draw 3 new cards, but get nothing better than the pair
of queens.
However, I bet another $2.50 - Everyone folds.
I start raking in the chips, and someone says let's see
your hand.
I claim since everyone went out, I don't have to show my
hand, others disagree. Of course, it's then known that I
don't have trips.
I say I win because everyone else folded! Another 2 say I lost because I
didn't have trips, and bluffing isn't allowed in jacks or better, trips
to win!
Anyone have the answer to this question?
Thanks, Janis - New Jersey
Rusty Hastings
all "out" (when you're out you're out rule). Technically, you don't win
for this hand but if the game continued you would be the only player and
you would eventually get trips or better. Of course, this isn't necessary
so you take the pot now because there is no one left to beat you.
.
Brent Brewer
is a loser regardless. After the draw only hands with "trips" may wager,
since any other hand will not win.
Brent
Jeff Woods
JL>didn't have trips, and bluffing isn't allowed in jacks or better, trips
JL>to win!
Depends on the table. At our table, you're allowed to bluff, but have
to "raise the pot" if caught doing so, thus most people don't do it.
Other tables, it's outright allowed, and at others, verboten. Always
have the rules decided upon and known going in.
Jeff Woods | CIS: 71035,2167 | Internet EMail: je...@delta.com
deltaComm Dev. | Fido: 1:151/107 | Direct BBS: 919-481-9399 v.34
* DeLuxe2 1.26b #171s * Driver, do you have any Bud Light in your limo?
Matt Blumenfeld
: If your game was stated "trips" to win. Then any hand under "trip" 2's
: since any other hand will not win.
: Brent
Sorry Brent, but I have to disagree here. After the draw ANYONE may wager.
However, if that person is called and can't show trips or better he/she
doesn't win the pot. Note that if NOBODY has trips or better AND there is
more than one person in the pot the play continues as before. (That is, the
player who was caught bluffing may continue to compete for the pot.) In the
scenario that was originally described, there was only one live player. One
player = The Winner.
>matt<
Vicki Davis
>Game: Jacks or better, progressive cards and money, trips to win.
>Scenario: Five players, cards have been dealt a NUMBER of times with
>either no one being able to open, or if someone opened, no one winning
>with 3 of a kind. Everyone antes up before each deal, and bets are made
>throughout the game. If someone decides fold, they're out of the game
>until someone finally wins. There is about $70.00 in the pot. Everyone
>is in the game.
>Dilemna: I open with a pair of queens and bet $2.50 - max bet.
> Everyone calls
> I draw 3 new cards, but get nothing better than the pair
>of queens.
> However, I bet another $2.50 - Everyone folds.
> I start raking in the chips, and someone says let's see
>your hand.
> I claim since everyone went out, I don't have to show my
>hand, others disagree. Of course, it's then known that I
>don't have trips.
>I say I win because everyone else folded! Another 2 say I lost because I
>didn't have trips, and bluffing isn't allowed in jacks or better, trips
>to win!
>Anyone have the answer to this question?
>Thanks, Janis - New Jersey
Janis,
I consulted 2 other regular players who play in my weekly group, and
we all think YOU WON! If they all went out, who else is going to win,
whether you have trips or not? Maybe Hoyle has a better answer, but I
say go for it!
Vicki
Mark Rafn
>If your game was stated "trips" to win. Then any hand under "trip" 2's
>is a loser regardless. After the draw only hands with "trips" may wager,
>since any other hand will not win.
The way I've always played it (note: this is not a casino game - so
there may be no such thing as "standard rules", but I've played with
numerous different groups of people with the same rules) is "Jacks or
better to open the betting before the draw, trips or better to win a
showdown".
Try this argument: your friends are right - you can't win even though
you're the only player. Okay - redeal - you're still the only player.
If you can get the trips find, otherwise...redeal with you STILL as the
only player. Repeat until you get the trips.
If their argument is that you couldn't have BET without trips after the
draw, they're simply being silly - what is the point of the after-draw
betting round if you KNOW the bettor has trips?
--
Mark Rafn da...@halcyon.com http://www.halcyon.com/dagon/
Frank Kastelic
you? $2.50 to continue with the chance to win a $70 pot on the
very credible possibility you were bluffing seems a reasonable
investment.
--
Frank Kastelic
Kevin Logemann
|> If your game was stated "trips" to win. Then any hand under "trip" 2's
|> is a loser regardless. After the draw only hands with "trips" may wager,
|> since any other hand will not win.
Fine. It was also stated that once you fold, you are out for the
remainder of the game. So, this only leaves the single person who stayed
without trips.
If you insist, keep dealing hands to this single player until they
draw trips, then award them the pot, but hopefully you will realize
the nonsense of this scenario and forego this exercise.
--
|Kevin Logemann |
|LEXIS-NEXIS | The problem isn't that we don't live long enough, it's
|ke...@meaddata.com | that we don't fully use the time we have...
Brian Goetz
>> didn't have trips, and bluffing isn't allowed in jacks or better, trips
>> to win!
Well, since the net consensus is "no question, you win", I'm going to play
devil's advocate here, and say that you don't win, and probably can't even
bet.
When you play "jacks or better" draw, and you open, and no one calls you,
any player has the right to demand to see your openers. If you can't
produce openers, not only do you lose, but you have cheated, and deserve
to be beaten up. "Jacks or better" doesn't mean "jacks or better to open,
unless no one calls you." Analogously, "trips to win" should mean trips
to win, not trips to win if there is a showdown.
--
Brian Goetz
Quiotix Corporation
br...@quiotix.com Tel: 415-324-0535 Fax: 415-324-8032
Janis Liiv
us at the game had the same arguments as what I saw here, we finished the
game by leaving all the money in the pot, and continuing with the rule
that no one would bet if they did not have trips. Seems stupid, though,
don't you think? Anyway, before our next game, we'll be sure to clearly
state the rules that are agreed upon by all of us before beginning.
Again, thanks!
Janis
Matt Blumenfeld
: Well, since the net consensus is "no question, you win", I'm going to play
: devil's advocate here, and say that you don't win, and probably can't even
: bet.
: When you play "jacks or better" draw, and you open, and no one calls you,
: any player has the right to demand to see your openers. If you can't
: produce openers, not only do you lose, but you have cheated, and deserve
: to be beaten up. "Jacks or better" doesn't mean "jacks or better to open,
: unless no one calls you." Analogously, "trips to win" should mean trips
: to win, not trips to win if there is a showdown.
NO NO NO NO! The question isn't whether there were openers. The question is
whether there were CALLERS after the draw! If nobody calls your hand it
doesn't matter WHAT you have, since you aren't required to show your hand.
I'm not that fond of Trips To Win anyway, but I CERTAINLY wouldn't play the
game if I wasn't allowed to bluff after the draw. (Especially if, as in the
cited case, there was a good chance that nobody would call.)
Road Kill
>whether there were CALLERS after the draw! If nobody calls your hand it
>doesn't matter WHAT you have, since you aren't required to show your hand.
>I'm not that fond of Trips To Win anyway, but I CERTAINLY wouldn't play the
>game if I wasn't allowed to bluff after the draw. (Especially if, as in the
>cited case, there was a good chance that nobody would call.)
I gotta agree with you here... I've run into this problem playing
stuff like Trips to wun, and even more so playing Touchies (with 4kind to
win)... The easiest way to win is to try and get people to fold,
that's true of any game, with or without a Win limit, it's just more
pronounced when you gotta produce a 4kind to win.
Stephen H. Landrum
This is an incredibly stupid way to play the game.
However, if you keep playing it this way, be aware that low trips are
not bettable after the draw in this scenario because no-one will call
unless they beat you. In fact, I would venture that nothing short of a
straight is bettable after the draw. If your friends are total idiots,
or if the pot is very large, then high trips are callable after the
draw.
--
Stephen H. Landrum voice: (415) 261-2626 email: slan...@3do.com
System software programmer, M2 graphics division. For customer service
email cl...@3do.com - for developer support, email sup...@3do.com .
Dave Horwitz
: Vicki is right. If everyone else drops, you win, with or without the trips.
I've always played the following way and it makes sense to me:
You must show openers (if asked) after the hand if you opened the pot.
If you drop, you drop for good (duration of the trips to win game).
You must show trips or better to drag the pot.
One might bet after the draw, without trips, hoping to induce opponents
to fold and increase your odds of winning on subsequent rounds... raising
a previous bet without trips takes some guts but is usually effective
against the bluff. Betting without trips solely to build the pot doesn't
seem to occur that often in the group I play with.
-Quick
________________________________________________________________________
Dave Horwitz Broadband Networking
Hewlett-Packard Company E-Mail: da...@cup.hp.com
19420 Homestead Road, M/S 43-LN Voice: (408) 447-2991
Cupertino, CA 95014 Fax: (408) 447-3878
Dennis Moore
But it must the the rare poker group that hasn't had at least one good
row over this question.
I can't *document* the answer. Can somebody? That is, does somebody have
a reasonably authoritative text suppoting Vicki's common-sense answer?
Matt Blumenfeld
: Dennis Moore (dmo...@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu) wrote:
: : Vicki is right. If everyone else drops, you win, with or without the trips.
: I've always played the following way and it makes sense to me:
: You must show openers (if asked) after the hand if you opened the pot.
: If you drop, you drop for good (duration of the trips to win game).
: You must show trips or better to drag the pot.
As was previously pointed out, this is kind of goofy, as nobody will cll
unless they can beat trips. In the games that I've played, it's often
correct to call with NOTHING, in order to keep someone from stealing the
pot. Of course, if everyone played with their hand exposed, you wouldn't
have to guess what they had... Hmm... Maybe you could have a set amount that
a person is required to bet for various hands, so that you'd know if you had
'em beat. (Hmm... She bet $5.75. That means she has a straight to the 7. I
can't win, but she has to show me a straight or she can't take the pot, so
I'll fold... Yeah. Raight!)
>matt<
Dave Horwitz
: Dave Horwitz (daveh@PROBLEM_WITH_INEWS_GATEWAY_FILE) wrote:
: : I've always played the following way and it makes sense to me:
: : You must show openers (if asked) after the hand if you opened the pot.
: : If you drop, you drop for good (duration of the trips to win game).
: : You must show trips or better to drag the pot.
: As was previously pointed out, this is kind of goofy, as nobody will cll
: unless they can beat trips. In the games that I've played, it's often
uhmmm. "you must show trips or better to drag the pot" means only that.
It does *not* mean you must have trips to bet... Also i should have added
that the game continues until pot is won (of course its kind of silly to
continue dealing to a sole player until they get trips or better if
everybody else folds). So... somebody opens, everybody else calls and
draws. You bet without having trips and 1 player folds (see rule 2).
Nobody can show trips or better to drag the pot so another hand is dealt
to all players *except* the folder. In this scenario your bet increased
your chances of winning the pot since you now have 1 less opponent on
this and subsequent hands.
Rick Gillespie
Janis Liiv <BVQ...@prodigy.com> wrote:
>I just want to thank everyone who replied to my question. Since all of
>us at the game had the same arguments as what I saw here, we finished the
>game by leaving all the money in the pot, and continuing with the rule
>that no one would bet if they did not have trips. Seems stupid, though,
>don't you think? Anyway, before our next game, we'll be sure to clearly
>state the rules that are agreed upon by all of us before beginning.
This question came up in our monthly game when we were busy inventing new
games (as we sometimes do when we are short on players). I worked on a
variant of Jacks-Back. Basically, a pair of Jacks to open; if noone can
open play the same cards lowball. If it is played high, then you need
trips to win. If it is played low, you need no higher than an 8 to win
(and that was picked out of thin air 'cause it felt right; it seems to
play right too).
The question came up, then, as to whether you could bluff "winners". We
played a couple of hands with no bluffing ... and it sucked big time.
What *is* Poker without bluffing? So, allowing bluffing was in, and suddenly
everyone was bluffing all the time :-) We dubbed the game Bluff-a-lot, which
became Bluff-a-loe, which became Buffalo, which became Bison ('cause there
are *no* buffalo in North America (except at zoos)).
But, what it comes down to is: house rules. Make sure you figure 'em out
ahead of time. An especially tricky one is what happens if someone
goes "both ways" in a split pot game, and loses one half.
Rick Gillespie
Thomas A. Goodwin
Brian Goetz <br...@Quiotix.COM> wrote:
>>> I say I win because everyone else folded! Another 2 say I lost because I
>>> didn't have trips, and bluffing isn't allowed in jacks or better, trips
>>> to win!
>
>
>devil's advocate here, and say that you don't win, and probably can't even
>bet.
>
>When you play "jacks or better" draw, and you open, and no one calls you,
>any player has the right to demand to see your openers. If you can't
>produce openers, not only do you lose, but you have cheated, and deserve
>to be beaten up. "Jacks or better" doesn't mean "jacks or better to open,
>unless no one calls you." Analogously, "trips to win" should mean trips
>to win, not trips to win if there is a showdown.
>
I agree that you must be able to supply the proper openers or you lose the
hand. However, trips to win is often played such that if you fold a hand,
and trips are not produced in that hand, then you are out for good.
Therefore, if everyone folds you do not need to produce trips because there
would no longer be any player to call you to a showdown.
Tom
swanha...@gmail.com
Jacks or Better, Trips to win. We had one hand which lasted
through several deals and the pot was very nice. There was five
of us left and each player had trips or better. An Ace high straight,
a flush, a full house. My friend whom I always seemed to beat announced
he had four of a kind. His problem was that I also had four of a kind,
So I asked him "How High" and he showed his four twos and I showed my
four eights. He still remained my friend, but he quit playing cards
in our game for awhile...
SWKe...@aol.com
> Game: Jacks or better, progressive cards and money, trips to win.
>
> Scenario: Five players, cards have been dealt a NUMBER of times with
> either no one being able to open, or if someone opened, no one winning
> with 3 of a kind. Everyone antes up before each deal, and bets are made
> throughout the game. If someone decides fold, they're out of the game
> until someone finally wins. There is about $70.00 in the pot. Everyone
> is in the game.
>
> Dilemna: I open with a pair of queens and bet $2.50 - max bet.
> Everyone calls
> I draw 3 new cards, but get nothing better than the pair
> of queens.
> However, I bet another $2.50 - Everyone folds.
> I start raking in the chips, and someone says let's see
> your hand.
> I claim since everyone went out, I don't have to show my
> hand, others disagree. Of course, it's then known that I
> don't have trips.
>
> didn't have trips, and bluffing isn't allowed in jacks or better, trips
> to win!
>
SWKe...@aol.com
Clave
<SWKe...@aol.com> wrote in message
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risky biz
Clave
"risky biz" <swing...@gmail.com> wrote in message
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Will in New Haven
--
Will in Pompano
http://www.drivethrufiction.com/product/226231/A-Poker-Tournament-at-the-Badgers-Club
da pickle
games. Jacks are better, trips to win is no different. If the game is
played in a home game, the host is the "floor" and "rules" are enforced
with agreement, shouting, fists, knives or guns. When any game moves to
a casino, there is usually security to enforce the ruling of the "floor"
... disagreements are usually less dramatic than in home games.
In my very limited experience in the game of jacks or better, the only
universal rules were that if "everyone" folds the "first" hand dealt,
all players ante (again) and are "dealt in" on the second hand and the
same thing happens, all players ante (again) and are dealt in on the
next hand etc. If someone "opens" on the "next" hand and there are no
callers (or raisers), and everyone else folds, the opener wins the pot
but must SHOW jacks or better. First problem ... the opener was
"bluffing" and does not have jacks or better. My rule was the deal does
not count ... cards are re-dealt and the offending player promises never
to bluff again on the come out. (I have also seen that player must sit
out the next deal.) There are many other "situations" presented at this
point and many different "rules" [mostly thought up on the spot] for
what might happen ... for example, the original player who opened folds
to a raise (for some stupid reason) and there is only the one "raiser"
left in the game ... but that person raising and does NOT have jacks or
better ... but the folding original raiser ALSO did not have jacks or
better ... some folks wonder whether that is another "misdeal" and
everyone who was "in" on that ante gets another chance ... or not ...
pick a rule and enforce it.
Then there is the normal situation where there is an opener and at least
one other player or more ... the remaining players are able to discard
and get new cards ... add in the sort of problems above to the second
round of the hand ... do you "back up" and start over again? [I hate
the game BTW.]
One cannot say that bluffing is not allowed, the problem is whether
there are "rules" available for very difficult situations. I have never
seen a game where an opener can "bluff" and win without showing jacks or
better. Other situations, not so much. I hate the game BTW.
Add "trips to win" and the increase is the lack of "rules" goes up an
order of magnitude. Does the "winner" have to show "trips to win" (like
the opener has to show jacks or better) or is a bluff good enough to
scoop that five antes later pot without a showdown on the second round
... is there any real "meaning" to the term "trips to win"? "Jacks or
better" has meaning in any game I have known ... apparently, Will, you
have a different view of "trips to win" ... at least in the games you
play. Have you ever seen any written rules? It is very possible the
term "trips to win" might be considered much like the "best hand wins at
showdown" ... often there is no "showdown" and "the best hand" is never
known.
Maybe we should call the game, Jacks or better; Trips to Win (if there
is a showdown at the end of the second round). I have nothing against
that way of looking at it. Perhaps another reason not to like the game.
We play a game called "Bourré" here in Louisiana and there must be a
million different home games with LOTS of different rules. When it
moved to the local casino in Marksville, there were 47 separate rules
listed on the wall and many disagreements during the games ... it did
not last long. Fortunately, I have not seen a game of Jacks or Better,
Trips to Win in many decades. "Baseball" is still more popular I am
told ... have not seen Spade Queen in the hole wild or Chicago (high or
low) or many other games a a very long time. We used to play in the 50s
in a friend's bomb shelter ... cool place.
---
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Variation 1: Progressive Jackpot: If no one opens with JJ on the first round, opener increases from JJ to QQ to KK to AA, and then returns to JJ.
Variation 2: No Trips to win: Just play with JJ's to open. JJ is minimum high hand.
Variation 3: Drawing and exchanging is unlimited until one player knocks, then all others get one more exchange. (Reshuffling allowed). Final betting round.
Variation 4: Drawing and exchanging is unlimited until the deck runs out. (Like Chicken!) (reshuffling allowed). Final betting round.