NL RULES: Minimum Raise After A Live Straddle?
Rick Nebiolo
popular in Los Angeles we often see small bets, raises or reraises.
Regarding the minimum raise, the standard* no limit rule is:
"All raises must be equal to or greater than the size of the previous
bet or raise on that betting round, except for an all-in wager."
Most clubs, including the Bike, allow a live straddle in no limit and
pot limit. Bob Ciaffone describes a live straddle as follows:
"In non-tournament games, one optional live straddle is allowed. The
player who posts the straddle has last action for the first round of
betting and is allowed to raise. To straddle, a player must be on the
immediate left of the big blind, and must post an amount twice the
size of the big blind."
Here's my question. Let's say the blinds are $2 and $3 and a $6 live
straddle is posted. Is the minimum raise $3 (making it $9) or is the
minimum raise $6 (making it $12)?
Note that your answer probably depends on how you interpret the live
straddle. If a live straddle is a blind with the right of last action
you probably favor a minimum raise of $6. If a live straddle is a
raise of $3 in turn you probably favor a minimum raise of $3.
Regards,
Rick
* The no limit rules quoted above are from Bob Ciaffone's excellent
online rulebook available at
http://www.diamondcs.net/~thecoach/RobsPkrRules3.htm
Bob's rules are essentially identical to most Los Angeles card club
rules. However, I believe Hawaiian Gardens is using a rule where the
minimum raise in no limit is equal to the amount of the total bets you
are facing (in other words, Player A bets $10, Player B raises $15
making it $25, the minimum reraise for Player C is $25 (rather than
$15 as in the standard rule). I believe this "raise at least twice
the amount of the bets you are facing" rule was advocated in an old
Ciaffone column, but not included in his online rules since it
violates standard accepted practice.
Warren Karp
The Straddle which gains last action "if there is no other raise" is nothing
more than a $3.00 raise...therefore the minimum raise would be $9.00
Warren Karp
www.PokerMD.com
I'm not a doctor, I just play one on the Internet
Please visit my new site, ask questions, get answers
"Rick Nebiolo" <ricknebiolo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4quf105kaapae9njk...@4ax.com...
JTAutry
news:IvTRb.863$IF1.839@fed1read01...
> Rick,
> The Straddle which gains last action "if there is no other raise" is
nothing
> more than a $3.00 raise...therefore the minimum raise would be $9.00
The minimum raise would be $3, thus making it $9 to go. Just semantics, but
its confusing.
JT
Garycarson1
In a nolimit game it doubles the minimum bet.
Gary Carson
Garycarson1
>nothing
>> more than a $3.00 raise...therefore the minimum raise would be $9.00
>
>The minimum raise would be $3, thus making it $9 to go. Just semantics, but
>its confusing.
That's not consistent with the historical rules in nolimit only cardrooms I'm
familiar with.
Gary Carson
JTAutry
news:20040128170319...@mb-m15.wmconnect.com...
> >
> >The minimum raise would be $3, thus making it $9 to go. Just semantics,
but
> >its confusing.
>
> That's not consistent with the historical rules in nolimit only cardrooms
I'm
> familiar with.
>
I was assuming the straddle was treated as a live raise, which may not be
correct in NL play.
JT
Rick Nebiolo
and the minimum bring in should therefore be $3 (making it $9). Later
I found that some players/managers with considerable experience
thought otherwise. Since I'm new to no limit I emailed rules expert
Bob Ciaffone a link to the equivalent post on 2+2 (Google hadn't yet
scanned the RGP link this morning).
Here are some excerpts from Bob's emailed replies:
"Here is how I changed my rules, simply adding a second sentence to my
no-limit rule two. Thanks.
2. All bets must be at least equal to the minimum bring-in, unless the
player is going all-in. (A straddle bet sets a new minimum bring-in,
and is not treated as a raise.)"
Later Bob wrote:
"At limit poker a straddle is a raise. If you are playing $3-$6 limit
and there is a straddle, the limit does not double. Only a kill
doubles the limit. But I believe no-limit should be treated
differently.
I will be posting version 4 of Robert's Rules soon, probably in a
week."
Rick Nebiolo
wrote:
>The straddle is just a new big blind. In a limit game it doubles the limit.
When I've seen limit straddles the straddle is treated like a live
blind raise but the limit isn't really doubled. In other words, let's
say someone straddles in 10/20 (with a $5 and $10 blind) for $20. If
players just call the $20 straddle the straddler can make it $30.
That round nor the next round of betting isn't doubled, rather the
players are merely facing a live raise BTF.
Most Los Angeles clubs don't allow live straddles in limit (although I
think they should to promote action; however, there may be a legal
problem regarding rake).
>In a nolimit game it doubles the minimum bet.
I now agree with this.
~ Rick
TD Lowball
> "At limit poker a straddle is a raise. If you are playing $3-$6 limit
> and there is a straddle, the limit does not double. Only a kill
> doubles the limit. But I believe no-limit should be treated
> differently.
Rick, maybe people should be allowed to do a kill in Hold'em instead of a
live straddle. That would really spice up the action for the gamblers.
Solid players, might kill on the button to do a "round from home."
Another possibilty is to adopt the old lowball tradtion of look at two and
kill. After a player receives two of his down cards he may look at them ,
and decided to kill before the preflop betting starts. :-)
TD Lowball --
_________________________________________________________________
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Howard L
Draw). Real ground breaking idea you have there.
I wish you'd adopt the old lowball tradition and drop dead at the table
from emphysema.
* Learn Where & Where NOT to Play at http://www.LiveActionPoker.com
** Up to $100 Deposit Bonus at http://www.FabulousPoker.com
JTAutry
news:4019156e$0$70309$7586...@news.frii.net...
> They DO have kill games in Hold'em, and they are widely spread (unlike
> Draw). Real ground breaking idea you have there.
He wasn't talking about a game with a kill.
JT
Rick Nebiolo
wrote:
>On Jan 28 2004 8:29PM, Rick Nebiolo wrote:
>
>> "At limit poker a straddle is a raise. If you are playing $3-$6 limit
>> and there is a straddle, the limit does not double. Only a kill
>> doubles the limit. But I believe no-limit should be treated
>> differently.
>
>Rick, maybe people should be allowed to do a kill in Hold'em instead of a
>live straddle. That would really spice up the action for the gamblers.
>Solid players, might kill on the button to do a "round from home."
It would effectively double the limits and probably be against local
law.
>Another possibilty is to adopt the old lowball tradtion of look at two and
>kill. After a player receives two of his down cards he may look at them ,
>and decided to kill before the preflop betting starts. :-)
Maybe I'm missing something but wouldn't looking at two down cards in
holdem and then being able to kill mean the player has seen his entire
pre flop hand. That's just too strong and would seem to kill action,
not create action.
~ Rick
TD Lowball
<ricknebiolo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >On Jan 28 2004 8:29PM, Rick Nebiolo wrote:
> >
> >> "At limit poker a straddle is a raise. If you are playing $3-$6 limit
> >> and there is a straddle, the limit does not double. Only a kill
> >> doubles the limit. But I believe no-limit should be treated
> >> differently.
> >
> >Rick, maybe people should be allowed to do a kill in Hold'em instead of
> >a
> >live straddle. That would really spice up the action for the gamblers.
> >Solid players, might kill on the button to do a "round from home."
>
> It would effectively double the limits and probably be against local
> law.
You have a top limit on how big the game can be? AFAIK in the old NL
lowball games you could kill for any amount, either as a blind kill or
as a look at 2 and kill.
> >Another possibilty is to adopt the old lowball tradtion of look at two
> >and
> >kill. After a player receives two of his down cards he may look at them
> >,
> >and decided to kill before the preflop betting starts. :-)
>
> Maybe I'm missing something
The smiley face
TD Lowball --
TD Lowball
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