Ethics in Poker
ramashiva
ethics in poker --
When I sit in a live poker game, I am there to win money. I am not
there to prove to myself or anyone else that I am an ethical person.
In a cash game, if I am not in the hand, I keep my mouth shut.
Period.
In a tournament game, if I am not in the hand, I keep my mouth shut
unless something is happening which is -EV for me.
I do everything possible which does not violate the rules to get an
edge.
When I am sure I will not be caught, I violate the rules whenever that
gives me an edge.
When a player next to me is so sloppy that I can see his hole cards, I
take full advantage of that information. I am careful not to turn my
head to look at his cards, I just move my eyes. I make a mental note
to sit next to this player whenever possible.
When I see another player is exposing his hole cards to a player next
to him, I say nothing. I make a mental note to sit next the hole card
exposer in the future whenever possible.
When players behind me telegraph when they are going to fold, I pause
briefly to see how many players behind me are going to fold, then I
adjust my true position for strategy purposes.
When I player telegraphs his actions during the play of a hand, I take
full advantage of that fact. For example, suppose when I reach for my
chips to bet, the other player reaches for his chips when he intends
to call.
Now suppose I am heads up with this idiot on the river, and I can only
win the pot with a bluff. I put one hand flat on the table. When the
action is on me, I reach for my chips with the other hand. If he
reaches for his chips, I pat the table with the hand which is flat on
the table. If he doesn't reach for his chips, I follow through with
the bet.
When I see a player can be put on tilt when people needle him, I
needle the fuck out of him.
When I think a strong player can be provoked into saying something
which will get him thrown out of the game, I do everything possible to
provoke him.
When I see two players are soft playing each other, I just go to a
floorman and inform him of this fact. If the floorman does nothing, I
cash out and complain to the cardroom manager. If the floorman does
his job, he observes the soft play, then tells the soft players they
cannot play at the same table in the future.
If I think two players are signalling their hole cards to each other,
I try to figure out their signalling system. If I succeed, I own
them. If I can't figure out their signalling system, I cash out and
make a mental note not to play at a table where they are both playing.
And so forth. I am there to make money. Ethics is irrelevant.
William Coleman (ramashiva)
garycarson
> Now suppose I am heads up with this idiot on the river, and I can only
> win the pot with a bluff. I put one hand flat on the table. When the
> action is on me, I reach for my chips with the other hand. If he
> reaches for his chips, I pat the table with the hand which is flat on
> the table. If he doesn't reach for his chips, I follow through with
> the bet.
Stick to computer games. You're an idiot without a basic understanding of
live tells.
_______________________________________________________________________�
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
ramashiva
wrote:
> > Now suppose I am heads up with this idiot on the river, and I can only
> > win the pot with a bluff. I put one hand flat on the table. When the
> > action is on me, I reach for my chips with the other hand. If he
> > reaches for his chips, I pat the table with the hand which is flat on
> > the table. If he doesn't reach for his chips, I follow through with
> > the bet.
> Stick to computer games. You're an idiot without a basic understanding of live tells.
I have really gotten under your skin, haven't I? What I gave is one
example which works like a charm. If you don't think so, you are the
one who doesn't understand live tells.
Do you understand that you are the one who is an idiot for telling me
I am wrong without bothering to explain why? You really think you are
some kind of poker authority who can just dispense judgements without
explanation?
You are a pretentious phony who never could play poker worth a shit,
and who doesn't understand even the basics of correct poker strategy.
You aren't even qualified to have an opinion on anything I say about
any aspect of poker.
Jealousy is a terrible thing, Gary. You are consumed by it. You
manifested it with your relentless stalking of Danny. Now you are
manifesting the same jealousy of me. I am flattered.
William Coleman (ramashiva)
O-PGManager
> full advantage of that fact. For example, suppose when I reach for my
> chips to bet, the other player reaches for his chips when he intends
> to call.
> Now suppose I am heads up with this idiot on the river, and I can only
> win the pot with a bluff. I put one hand flat on the table. When the
> action is on me, I reach for my chips with the other hand. If he
> reaches for his chips, I pat the table with the hand which is flat on
> the table. If he doesn't reach for his chips, I follow through with
> the bet.
I agree with Gary here but will try to communicate in a less prickish
manner as I'm excited to finally have an off topic poker discussion. I
know back in my amateur days when I wanted someone to check because I was
weak I would ALWAYS prematurely reach for my chips to try to communicate
"hell yeah I'll call you" when in reality I would end up having to fold if
he bet.
If I was strong I would be perfectly still, terrified to make any movement
that might scare him away from betting.
I'm pretty sure my behavior is a common tell documented by Caro. I think
you have it backwards here, checking to a guy prematurely reaching for his
chips is more often than not exactly what he hopes you'll do. Obviously
not always.
Opie-GManager
Rec.Gambling.Poker
Assistant Newsgroup Coordinator reporting to Mr. Popinjay
____________________________________________________________________�
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Mistress of Tilt
First, the use of cards versus the use of computerized poker tables
has been argued as if the presence of a dealer is important to the
game. The dealer is not. The use of physical cards and chips allows
for advantages that have nothing to do with poker. Looking for exposed
cards, sloppy shuffeling and dishonest movements and other corner
cutting strategies is how many players percieve a winning plan.
Secondly, this Ramaasshole is bad for buisness. His posts drive away
newbies and old timers alike. If you ain't into prostitutes, guns,
intimidation and just plain ol' cracker oafishness, then this group
can be quite offensive. Poker needs a steady stream of new money,
which without, the rake will soon make everyone a loser. 'People' like
this buttmunch make it so much more difficult on the rest of us.
O-PGManager
> newbies and old timers alike.
From RGP? Maybe. (but doubtful) From the game of poker???? CMON!
Opie-GManager
Rec.Gambling.Poker
Assistant Newsgroup Coordinator reporting to Mr. Popinjay
---�
John_Brian_K
> live tells.
Translation:
"This move fucked me more than once!"
==========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
==============================
47.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
JBK
-----�
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
mo_charles
> > live tells.
>
> Translation:
>
> "This move fucked me more than once!"
lol. welcome back.
mo_charles
Mistress of Tilt
> > His posts drive away
> > newbies and old timers alike.
>
> From RGP? Maybe. (but doubtful) From the game of poker???? CMON!
>
> Opie-GManager
> Rec.Gambling.Poker
> Assistant Newsgroup Coordinator reporting to Mr. Popinjay
>
You may be right. Or you may believe in the butterfly effect. This
guy oozes bad karma, and that can't be good for anything.
Will in New Haven
> On Dec 1, 9:55 am, "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > > Now suppose I am heads up with this idiot on the river, and I can only
> > > win the pot with a bluff. I put one hand flat on the table. When the
> > > action is on me, I reach for my chips with the other hand. If he
> > > reaches for his chips, I pat the table with the hand which is flat on
> > > the table. If he doesn't reach for his chips, I follow through with
> > > the bet.
> > Stick to computer games. You're an idiot without a basic understanding of live tells.
>
> I have really gotten under your skin, haven't I? What I gave is one
> example which works like a charm. If you don't think so, you are the
> one who doesn't understand live tells.
I don't know what species of humans you play against but _most bad
players_ reach for chips when it is your turn to bet to discourage you
from betting. He may feel he has to call or he may be folding but he
does _not_ want you to bet. Mike Caro noted this before even Gary
Carson was born. Or at least before Gondwanaland split up, whichever
came first.
>
> Do you understand that you are the one who is an idiot for telling me
> I am wrong without bothering to explain why? You really think you are
> some kind of poker authority who can just dispense judgements without
> explanation?
If you have a specific opponent against whom this works, have a party.
Gary is just telling you how most of the human race behaves in this
situation.
--
Will in New Haven
Will in New Haven
The mistress of malice and hatred speaks.
phlash74
I read an article by Caro (as you said) documenting this one. Most of the
tells he describes are of this "strong means weak and vice versa" variety,
with the obvious exception of involuntary tells. I think the tell about
players getting ready to fold behind you pre-flop that William described
is much more reliable, and allows you to buy the button more often.
Michael
U.S. American
-----------------
"Frankly, I think this was a good post. And on its merit too, not just
because you jammed it up Irish Mike's ass pretty good. Icing on the cake.
lol"
-Paul Popinjay, 3/19/08
--------�
Mistress of Tilt
wrote:
>
> The mistress of malice and hatred speaks.
>
> --
> Will in New Haven
You're the fool who has threatened me across the distances known only
as the internets. That seems to drip malice and hatred. What is the
point of your miserable life?
O-PGManager
> players getting ready to fold behind you pre-flop that William described
> is much more reliable, and allows you to buy the button more often.
Definitely. Players could care less about inadvertently giving someone
the button when they're holding rags they're going to fold. Weak means
weak here.
Opie-GManager
Rec.Gambling.Poker
Assistant Newsgroup Coordinator reporting to Mr. Popinjay
----�
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K9way
of time.
Example One : Older African American gentleman is on the button in a LH
game , in a multi way pot. On the turn there are 2 hearts, and he calls
on the button . If a "blank" comes on the river and the gentleman reaches
for his chips ..HE JUST MISSED A FLUSH
Example Two;; Same gentleman is on the button with the same board in the
same game . A heart comes on the river and , with 4 people to act in front
of him , this gentleman reaches out and checks (4 people out of turn ) .
The nice gentleman has a FLUSH
I kept this as respectful as possible , but I am willing to bet that most
who read this know exactly what i am talking about.
Different groups or ethinic groups have been doing shit in poker games for
decades. i am sure PP can tell you about some of things the Jewish people
did and how they did it in the lo-ball games in SoCal.. In Vegas , in the
80's ..it was the Greeks . they pulled more shit than any group.. bar none
Slim1Der
> When I am sure I will not be caught, I violate the rules whenever that
> gives me an edge.
William, you a cold motherfucker! I like that shit!
Slim
garycarson
> On Dec 1, 9:55�ｿｽam, "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > > Now suppose I am heads up with this idiot on the river, and I can only
> > > win the pot with a bluff. �ｿｽI put one hand flat on the table. �ｿｽWhen the
> > > action is on me, I reach for my chips with the other hand. �ｿｽIf he
> > > reaches for his chips, I pat the table with the hand which is flat on
> > > the table. �ｿｽIf he doesn't reach for his chips, I follow through with
> > > the bet.
>
> > Stick to computer games. �ｿｽYou're an idiot without a basic understanding of
live tells.
>
> I have really gotten under your skin, haven't I? What I gave is one
> example which works like a charm. If you don't think so, you are the
> one who doesn't understand live tells.
>
> Do you understand that you are the one who is an idiot for telling me
> I am wrong without bothering to explain why? You really think you are
> some kind of poker authority who can just dispense judgements without
> explanation?
Yes.
>
> You are a pretentious phony who never could play poker worth a shit,
> and who doesn't understand even the basics of correct poker strategy.
> You aren't even qualified to have an opinion on anything I say about
> any aspect of poker.
that's what expert means.
>
> Jealousy is a terrible thing, Gary. You are consumed by it. You
> manifested it with your relentless stalking of Danny. Now you are
> manifesting the same jealousy of me. I am flattered.
>
LOL
_____________________________________________________________________�ｿｽ
garycarson
> > When I player telegraphs his actions during the play of a hand, I take
> > full advantage of that fact. For example, suppose when I reach for my
> > chips to bet, the other player reaches for his chips when he intends
> > to call.
>
> > Now suppose I am heads up with this idiot on the river, and I can only
> > win the pot with a bluff. I put one hand flat on the table. When the
> > action is on me, I reach for my chips with the other hand. If he
> > reaches for his chips, I pat the table with the hand which is flat on
> > the table. If he doesn't reach for his chips, I follow through with
> > the bet.
>
> I agree with Gary here but will try to communicate in a less prickish
> manner as I'm excited to finally have an off topic poker discussion. I
> know back in my amateur days when I wanted someone to check because I was
> weak I would ALWAYS prematurely reach for my chips to try to communicate
> "hell yeah I'll call you" when in reality I would end up having to fold if
> he bet.
>
> If I was strong I would be perfectly still, terrified to make any movement
> that might scare him away from betting.
>
> I'm pretty sure my behavior is a common tell documented by Caro. I think
> you have it backwards here, checking to a guy prematurely reaching for his
> chips is more often than not exactly what he hopes you'll do. Obviously
> not always.
>
What's important to observe isn't whether he's reaching for chips, but the
manner in which he does it. If he's behaving somewhat mindlessly or
nonchalantly it's a very different situation than it is if he's staring at
you menacingly.
But drawing conclusions from such subtle differences in behavior requires
an application of mind reading skills which Rami doesn't possess.
------�
ramashiva
wrote:
> On Dec 1, 1:18 pm, ramashiva <ramash...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > On Dec 1, 9:55 am, "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.edu>
> > wrote:
> > > > Now suppose I am heads up with this idiot on the river, and I can only
> > > > win the pot with a bluff. I put one hand flat on the table. When the
> > > > action is on me, I reach for my chips with the other hand. If he
> > > > reaches for his chips, I pat the table with the hand which is flat on
> > > > the table. If he doesn't reach for his chips, I follow through with the bet.
> > > Stick to computer games. You're an idiot without a basic understanding of live tells.
> > I have really gotten under your skin, haven't I? What I gave is one
> > example which works like a charm. If you don't think so, you are the
> > one who doesn't understand live tells.
> I don't know what species of humans you play against but _most bad
> players_ reach for chips when it is your turn to bet to discourage you
> from betting. He may feel he has to call or he may be folding but he
> does _not_ want you to bet. Mike Caro noted this before even Gary
> Carson was born. Or at least before Gondwanaland split up, whichever
> came first.
I don't use the technique unless I first observe the player
consistently telegraphs his intention to call.
When I observe a player who reaches for his chips when he wants to
discourage a bet, I bet right into him.
The key is to first observe the player and look for a consistent
pattern.
William Coleman (ramashiva)
ramashiva
wrote:
How would you know what skills I possess, moron? You have never
played with me. You are totally delusional and imagine you know what
skills I have at the table. Get help.
Let's see. This makes about five posts you have made in this thread,
and you have still not acknowledged your logical error which I pointed
out in the OP.
William Coleman (ramashiva)
Will in New Haven
Obviously, that is correct. What is mildly frustrating lately is the
fact that I don't see the same players as often as I used to. It means
I have to go by generalities here and by what I can read into the
player's _intent_ Usually, in NL, a player who tries to discourage a
bet is likely to fold. So you have to cut _way_ back on the size of
the bet if you want him to call. If you don't mind if he folds, you
make a more normal bet. Most of the time in limit, if the player tries
to discourage he has a hand he wants to show down cheaper but he's
still probably going to call. Guys with no showdown value don't
usually bother posturing.
--
Will in New Haven
First Prize: A week in Newark
Second Prize: A night with Bea
ramashiva
> > When I player telegraphs his actions during the play of a hand, I take
> > full advantage of that fact. For example, suppose when I reach for my
> > chips to bet, the other player reaches for his chips when he intends
> > to call.
> > Now suppose I am heads up with this idiot on the river, and I can only
> > win the pot with a bluff. I put one hand flat on the table. When the
> > action is on me, I reach for my chips with the other hand. If he
> > reaches for his chips, I pat the table with the hand which is flat on
> > the table. If he doesn't reach for his chips, I follow through with
> > the bet.
> I agree with Gary here but will try to communicate in a less prickish
> manner as I'm excited to finally have an off topic poker discussion. I
> know back in my amateur days when I wanted someone to check because I was
> weak I would ALWAYS prematurely reach for my chips to try to communicate
> "hell yeah I'll call you" when in reality I would end up having to fold if
> he bet.
You are clueless. I only employ this method after I have observed the
player consistently reach for his chips, then call.
You don't think I understand the concept of a reverse tell?
You think I just start using this method on a player without having
first observed he consistently telegraphs when he is going to call?
If you displayed a consistent pattern of reaching for your chips when
weak, then I would just bluff the fuck out of you.
This method works on unsophisticated players who do not realize they
are telegraphing their intention to call.
Newsflash! If you take Carson's side in an argument with me, you are
WRONG! Got that, WRONG!
> If I was strong I would be perfectly still, terrified to make any movement
> that might scare him away from betting.
>
> I'm pretty sure my behavior is a common tell documented by Caro. I think
> you have it backwards here, checking to a guy prematurely reaching for his
> chips is more often than not exactly what he hopes you'll do.
You are a clueless unsophisticated player. I would clean your clock
in a live game.
William Coleman (ramashiva)
garycarson
I've made tons more money by giving the suckers a break than you'll ever
get from trying to weasel yourself an edge in a few hands.
garycarson
> On Dec 1, 1:34�ｿｽpm, Will in New Haven <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Dec 1, 1:18�ｿｽpm, ramashiva <ramash...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 1, 9:55�ｿｽam, "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.edu>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > > Now suppose I am heads up with this idiot on the river, and I can
only
> > > > > win the pot with a bluff. �ｿｽI put one hand flat on the table. �ｿｽWhen
the
> > > > > action is on me, I reach for my chips with the other hand. �ｿｽIf he
> > > > > reaches for his chips, I pat the table with the hand which is flat on
> > > > > the table. �ｿｽIf he doesn't reach for his chips, I follow through with
the bet.
>
> > > > Stick to computer games. �ｿｽYou're an idiot without a basic
understanding of live tells.
>
> > > I have really gotten under your skin, haven't I? �ｿｽWhat I gave is one
> > > example which works like a charm. �ｿｽIf you don't think so, you are the
> > > one who doesn't understand live tells.
>
> > I don't know what species of humans you play against but _most bad
> > players_ reach for chips when it is your turn to bet to discourage you
> > from betting. He may feel he has to call or he may be folding but he
> > does _not_ want you to bet. Mike Caro noted this before even Gary
> > Carson was born. Or at least before Gondwanaland split up, whichever
> > came first.
>
> I don't use the technique unless I first observe the player
> consistently telegraphs his intention to call.
>
> When I observe a player who reaches for his chips when he wants to
> discourage a bet, I bet right into him.
>
> The key is to first observe the player and look for a consistent
> pattern.
>
No, that's not the key at all. The key is to learn to read minds as per
my other post in this thread.
You put way to much stock iin superficial observations and empiricism.
They have meds for that these days.
_____________________________________________________________________�ｿｽ
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> On Dec 1 2009 6:19 PM, Slim1Der wrote:
>
> > > When I am sure I will not be caught, I violate the rules whenever that
> > > gives me an edge.
>
> > William, you a cold motherfucker! I like that shit!
>
> > Slim
>
> I've made tons more money by giving the suckers a break than you'll ever
> get from trying to weasel yourself an edge in a few hands.
"Let them enjoy losing their money." I think the author or his mentor
in _The Education of a Poker Player_ said that. But what did Yardley
know.
ramashiva
wrote:
> On Dec 1 2009 9:08 PM, ramashiva wrote:
> > On Dec 1, 1:34 pm, Will in New Haven <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com>
> > wrote:
> > > On Dec 1, 1:18 pm, ramashiva <ramash...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > > On Dec 1, 9:55 am, "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.edu>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Now suppose I am heads up with this idiot on the river, and I can only
> > > > > > win the pot with a bluff. I put one hand flat on the table. When the
> > > > > > action is on me, I reach for my chips with the other hand. If he
> > > > > > reaches for his chips, I pat the table with the hand which is flat on
> > > > > > the table. If he doesn't reach for his chips, I follow through with the bet.
> > > > > Stick to computer games. You're an idiot without a basic understanding of live tells.
> > > > I have really gotten under your skin, haven't I? What I gave is one
> > > > example which works like a charm. If you don't think so, you are the
> > > > one who doesn't understand live tells.
> > > I don't know what species of humans you play against but _most bad
> > > players_ reach for chips when it is your turn to bet to discourage you
> > > from betting. He may feel he has to call or he may be folding but he
> > > does _not_ want you to bet. Mike Caro noted this before even Gary
> > > Carson was born. Or at least before Gondwanaland split up, whichever
> > > came first.
> > I don't use the technique unless I first observe the player
> > consistently telegraphs his intention to call.
> > When I observe a player who reaches for his chips when he wants to
> > discourage a bet, I bet right into him.
> > The key is to first observe the player and look for a consistent
> > pattern.
> No, that's not the key at all. The key is to learn to read minds as per
> my other post in this thread.
> You put way to much stock iin superficial observations and empiricism.
> They have meds for that these days.
They also have a medication for people like you who think they can
read minds. It's called Thorazine.
William Coleman (ramashiva)
ramashiva
wrote:
> On Dec 1 2009 6:19 PM, Slim1Der wrote:
> > > When I am sure I will not be caught, I violate the rules whenever that
> > > gives me an edge.
> > William, you a cold motherfucker! I like that shit!
> I've made tons more money by giving the suckers a break than you'll ever
> get from trying to weasel yourself an edge in a few hands.
How the fuck do you know how much money he has made or will make???
You are seriously mentally ill. You think you know things which you
cannot possibly know.
Get help.
William Coleman (ramashiva)
BTSinAustin
Helpful hint of the day.
Next time you "Download a personality"... get one with some personality.
You could be such a sweet loving guy if you were not such a miserable
prick.
"You had better believe that there is no scarier sight on Earth than the
sight of Ramashiva transformed into the Angel of Death."
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2735/4129434416_6fd338d387.jpg
-----�
BTSinAustin
> On Dec 1 2009 6:19 PM, Slim1Der wrote:
>
> > > When I am sure I will not be caught, I violate the rules whenever that
> > > gives me an edge.
> >
> > William, you a cold motherfucker! I like that shit!
> >
> > Slim
>
> I've made tons more money by giving the suckers a break than you'll ever
> get from trying to weasel yourself an edge in a few hands.
Interesting that not one person has condemned him for admittedly cheating.
"You had better believe that there is no scarier sight on Earth than the
sight of Ramashiva transformed into the Angel of Death."
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2735/4129434416_6fd338d387.jpg
------�
BTSinAustin
I wish I was a master pic-a-nic basket yogi bear and could make things
happen just by thinking them while downloading personalities and act all
sane like you while talking about how crazy someone else is.
"You had better believe that there is no scarier sight on Earth than the
sight of Ramashiva transformed into the Angel of Death."
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2735/4129434416_6fd338d387.jpg
_____________________________________________________________________�
K9way
> On Dec 1 2009 9:22 PM, garycarson wrote:
>
> > On Dec 1 2009 6:19 PM, Slim1Der wrote:
> >
> > > > When I am sure I will not be caught, I violate the rules whenever that
> > > > gives me an edge.
> > >
> > > William, you a cold motherfucker! I like that shit!
> > >
> > > Slim
> >
> > I've made tons more money by giving the suckers a break than you'll ever
> > get from trying to weasel yourself an edge in a few hands.
>
>
> Interesting that not one person has condemned him for admittedly cheating.
>
> "You had better believe that there is no scarier sight on Earth than the
> sight of Ramashiva transformed into the Angel of Death."
> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2735/4129434416_6fd338d387.jpg
it is easy .. he is lying .. the minute he makes a post that starts with
."i made lots of money " ..IT IS A LIE
he is a major league sucker and always has beeen
Just when you think that youve been gypped ..the bearded lady comes and
does a double back flip!!! John Hiatt in "Buffalo River Home"
-------�
Arlo-Payne
> Beldin the idiot has been babbling about ethics in poker. Here are my
> ethics in poker --
>
> When I sit in a live poker game, I am there to win money. I am not
> there to prove to myself or anyone else that I am an ethical person.
>
> In a cash game, if I am not in the hand, I keep my mouth shut.
> Period.
>
> In a tournament game, if I am not in the hand, I keep my mouth shut
> unless something is happening which is -EV for me.
>
> I do everything possible which does not violate the rules to get an
> edge.
>
> When I am sure I will not be caught, I violate the rules whenever that
> gives me an edge.
>
> When a player next to me is so sloppy that I can see his hole cards, I
> take full advantage of that information. I am careful not to turn my
> head to look at his cards, I just move my eyes. I make a mental note
> to sit next to this player whenever possible.
>
> When I see another player is exposing his hole cards to a player next
> to him, I say nothing. I make a mental note to sit next the hole card
> exposer in the future whenever possible.
>
> When players behind me telegraph when they are going to fold, I pause
> briefly to see how many players behind me are going to fold, then I
> adjust my true position for strategy purposes.
>
> When I player telegraphs his actions during the play of a hand, I take
> full advantage of that fact. For example, suppose when I reach for my
> chips to bet, the other player reaches for his chips when he intends
> to call.
>
> Now suppose I am heads up with this idiot on the river, and I can only
> win the pot with a bluff. I put one hand flat on the table. When the
> action is on me, I reach for my chips with the other hand. If he
> reaches for his chips, I pat the table with the hand which is flat on
> the table. If he doesn't reach for his chips, I follow through with
> the bet.
>
> When I see a player can be put on tilt when people needle him, I
> needle the fuck out of him.
>
> When I think a strong player can be provoked into saying something
> which will get him thrown out of the game, I do everything possible to
> provoke him.
>
> When I see two players are soft playing each other, I just go to a
> floorman and inform him of this fact. If the floorman does nothing, I
> cash out and complain to the cardroom manager. If the floorman does
> his job, he observes the soft play, then tells the soft players they
> cannot play at the same table in the future.
>
> If I think two players are signalling their hole cards to each other,
> I try to figure out their signalling system. If I succeed, I own
> them. If I can't figure out their signalling system, I cash out and
> make a mental note not to play at a table where they are both playing.
>
> And so forth. I am there to make money. Ethics is irrelevant.
>
>
> William Coleman (ramashiva)
TOTAL BULLSHIT!
Bill you have to much moral fiber in your system and heart to act that way.
You want life to be fair and just for all.
----�
ramashiva
> TOTAL BULLSHIT!
> Bill you have to much moral fiber in your system and heart to act that way.
> You want life to be fair and just for all.
Not when I am at the poker table. I want the money.
William Coleman (ramashiva)
Arlo-Payne
> On Dec 1 2009 6:19 PM, Slim1Der wrote:
>
> > > When I am sure I will not be caught, I violate the rules whenever that
> > > gives me an edge.
> >
> > William, you a cold motherfucker! I like that shit!
> >
> > Slim
>
> I've made tons more money by giving the suckers a break than you'll ever
> get from trying to weasel yourself an edge in a few hands.
So very true
________________________________________________________________________�
Beldin the Sorcerer
"ramashiva" <rama...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:231e16d3-c30a-4c17...@g26g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
***
Yeah, you're a lying, thieving scumbag.
ramashiva
wrote:
.
Why aren't you playing in the Midnight Madness, numbnuts? I deposited
on FT today, and I was going to play, but you didn't show up. What's
the problem? Your $1000 bankroll suddenly shrink to less than $11?
William Coleman (ramashiva)
Beldin the Sorcerer
***
Of course, that wasn't what you wrote at all, and basically, you're showing
us you're a shithead
William Coleman (ramashiva)
lvdlrs
Gary (...) Philips
-------�
garycarson
> On Dec 1 2009 9:22 PM, garycarson wrote:
>
> > On Dec 1 2009 6:19 PM, Slim1Der wrote:
> >
> > > > When I am sure I will not be caught, I violate the rules whenever that
> > > > gives me an edge.
> > >
> > > William, you a cold motherfucker! I like that shit!
> > >
> > > Slim
> >
> > I've made tons more money by giving the suckers a break than you'll ever
> > get from trying to weasel yourself an edge in a few hands.
>
>
> Interesting that not one person has condemned him for admittedly cheating.
>
I guess I just assumed everybody already knew what kind of guy is is. And
it doesn't do any good to point it out to him -- he's completely unaware
of reality.
-------�
Beldin the Sorcerer
***
He reads the idiocy and the one dimensional nature of your posts
***
Let's see. This makes about five posts you have made in this thread,
and you have still not acknowledged your logical error which I pointed
out in the OP.
***
Your lack of logic there was obvious.
Your idiocy, even more so
ramashiva
> Ethics? Yes, you should get some.
You talking to me, Gary?
You fucking idiots that think players should adhere to an ethical code
need to get a clue.
Poker is about getting the money, not adhering to some ethical code.
Ethics?
LMFAO!
You are an idiot, Gary.
William Coleman (ramashiva)
Beldin the Sorcerer
On Dec 1, 11:25 am, "O-PGManager" <ad63...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > When I player telegraphs his actions during the play of a hand, I take
> > full advantage of that fact. For example, suppose when I reach for my
> > chips to bet, the other player reaches for his chips when he intends
> > to call.
> > Now suppose I am heads up with this idiot on the river, and I can only
> > win the pot with a bluff. I put one hand flat on the table. When the
> > action is on me, I reach for my chips with the other hand. If he
> > reaches for his chips, I pat the table with the hand which is flat on
> > the table. If he doesn't reach for his chips, I follow through with
> > the bet.
> I agree with Gary here but will try to communicate in a less prickish
> manner as I'm excited to finally have an off topic poker discussion. I
> know back in my amateur days when I wanted someone to check because I was
> weak I would ALWAYS prematurely reach for my chips to try to communicate
> "hell yeah I'll call you" when in reality I would end up having to fold if
> he bet.
You are clueless. I only employ this method after I have observed the
player consistently reach for his chips, then call.
***
Which you didn't claim in the initial post at all, and indeed probably
didn't mean
***
You don't think I understand the concept of a reverse tell?
***
Mostly, you don't understand shit
ramashiva
wrote:
You going to answer my question about why you aren't playing in
Midnight Madness???
William Coleman (ramashiva)
Beldin the Sorcerer
"BTSinAustin" <a1...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message
news:g22hu6x...@recgroups.com...
> On Dec 1 2009 9:22 PM, garycarson wrote:
>
>> On Dec 1 2009 6:19 PM, Slim1Der wrote:
>>
>> > > When I am sure I will not be caught, I violate the rules whenever
>> > > that
>> > > gives me an edge.
>> >
>> > William, you a cold motherfucker! I like that shit!
>> >
>> > Slim
>>
>> I've made tons more money by giving the suckers a break than you'll ever
>> get from trying to weasel yourself an edge in a few hands.
>
>
> Interesting that not one person has condemned him for admittedly cheating.
I did
But then, I condemn him for so much
Beldin the Sorcerer
>You going to answer my question about why you aren't playing in
Midnight Madness???
As soon as I get to it.
Replies first, then new posts in new threads
Hold on
Beldin the Sorcerer
On Dec 1, 9:29 pm, "lvdlrs" <a5bf...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> Ethics? Yes, you should get some.
You talking to me, Gary?
***
Looks like he is, shithead
***
You fucking idiots that think players should adhere to an ethical code
need to get a clue.
**
Nice mouth
***
Poker is about getting the money, not adhering to some ethical code.
***
So beating you senseless in the parking lot is ok too, if it gets the money?
ramashiva
wrote:
> "ramashiva" <ramash...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> Poker is about getting the money, not adhering to some ethical code.
> So beating you senseless in the parking lot is ok too, if it gets the money?
Newsflash! Breaking card room rules is not a crime.
The other things I talked about, like looking at another player's hole
cards, aren't even violations of cardroom rules.
William Coleman (ramashiva)
Beldin the Sorcerer
***
I was playing Gin with my sweetheart and we didn't finish till almost 12:30
I',m in the
$5+5 rebuy/addon
K9way
> On Dec 1 2009 9:22 PM, garycarson wrote:
>
> > On Dec 1 2009 6:19 PM, Slim1Der wrote:
> >
> > > > When I am sure I will not be caught, I violate the rules whenever that
> > > > gives me an edge.
> > >
> > > William, you a cold motherfucker! I like that shit!
> > >
> > > Slim
> >
> > I've made tons more money by giving the suckers a break than you'll ever
> > get from trying to weasel yourself an edge in a few hands.
>
>
> Interesting that not one person has condemned him for admittedly cheating.
>
> "You had better believe that there is no scarier sight on Earth than the
> sight of Ramashiva transformed into the Angel of Death."
> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2735/4129434416_6fd338d387.jpg
he isnt smart enough to cheat !! he is barely smart enough to wear his
lunch on his shirt !!
Just when you think that youve been gypped ..the bearded lady comes and
does a double back flip!!! John Hiatt in "Buffalo River Home"
________________________________________________________________________�
Paul Popinjay
news:69agu6x...@recgroups.com...
>
> Translation:
>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/22980481@N04/3011351435/
Beldin the Sorcerer
> "ramashiva" <ramash...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> Poker is about getting the money, not adhering to some ethical code.
> So beating you senseless in the parking lot is ok too, if it gets the
> money?
Newsflash! Breaking card room rules is not a crime.
***
Who's talking about cardroom rules?
We're talking about ethical behavior
Something you know nothing about
K9way
> On Dec 1, 9:08�pm, ramashiva <ramash...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > On Dec 1, 1:34�pm, Will in New Haven <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Dec 1, 1:18�pm, ramashiva <ramash...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > > On Dec 1, 9:55�am, "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.edu>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Now suppose I am heads up with this idiot on the river, and I can
only
> > > > > > win the pot with a bluff. �I put one hand flat on the table. �When
the
> > > > > > action is on me, I reach for my chips with the other hand. �If he
> > > > > > reaches for his chips, I pat the table with the hand which is flat
on
> > > > > > the table. �If he doesn't reach for his chips, I follow through
with the bet.
> > > > > Stick to computer games. �You're an idiot without a basic
understanding of live tells.
> > > > I have really gotten under your skin, haven't I? �What I gave is one
> > > > example which works like a charm. �If you don't think so, you are the
> > > > one who doesn't understand live tells.
> > > I don't know what species of humans you play against but _most bad
> > > players_ reach for chips when it is your turn to bet to discourage you
> > > from betting. He may feel he has to call or he may be folding but he
> > > does _not_ want you to bet. Mike Caro noted this before even Gary
> > > Carson was born. Or at least before Gondwanaland split up, whichever
> > > came first.
> >
> > I don't use the technique unless I first observe the �player
> > consistently telegraphs his intention to call.
> >
> > When I observe a player who reaches for his chips when he wants to
> > discourage a bet, I bet right into him.
> >
> > The key is to first observe the player and look for a consistent
> > pattern.
>
> Obviously, that is correct. What is mildly frustrating lately is the
> fact that I don't see the same players as often as I used to. It means
> I have to go by generalities here and by what I can read into the
> player's _intent_ Usually, in NL, a player who tries to discourage a
> bet is likely to fold. So you have to cut _way_ back on the size of
> the bet if you want him to call. If you don't mind if he folds, you
> make a more normal bet. Most of the time in limit, if the player tries
> to discourage he has a hand he wants to show down cheaper but he's
> still probably going to call. Guys with no showdown value don't
> usually bother posturing.
>
>i knew this shit before I first fell off a dinosaur ..ty captain obvious
K9way
>
> I don't use the technique unless I first observe the player
> consistently telegraphs his intention to call.
>
> When I observe a player who reaches for his chips when he wants to
> discourage a bet, I bet right into him.
>
> The key is to first observe the player and look for a consistent
> pattern.
> ***
> NO SHIT ?
Whats next .. you gonna tell us Lincoln got shot ?
Marcia Gervais knew this shit before she was playing you into the ground
Just when you think that youve been gypped ..the bearded lady comes and
does a double back flip!!! John Hiatt in "Buffalo River Home"
------�
K9way
yeah ..you fuckin morons think people should launder their clothes and
take em off when you sleep
fuckin idiots !!
Just when you think that youve been gypped ..the bearded lady comes and
does a double back flip!!! John Hiatt in "Buffalo River Home"
------�
K9way
> The other things I talked about, like looking at another player's hole
> cards, aren't even violations of cardroom rules.
>
>
> William Coleman (ramashiva)
it most certainly is in almost every poker room on earth ..except at the
Beau Rivage .. but thats another story
Just when you think that youve been gypped ..the bearded lady comes and
does a double back flip!!! John Hiatt in "Buffalo River Home"
---�
Peter Secor
>Will in New Haven
>First Prize: A week in Newark
Not so bad if you like the NJ Symphony and Portuguese food.
Best,
Peter
--
http://zbigniew.pyrzqxgl.com/bargegeek.html
A+++ G++ PKR+ PEG- B+ TB ADB++ M
www.barge.org
"There are no strangers at BARGE, just friends we haven't met yet"
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> "ramashiva" <ramash...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
The fact that people sit at the poker table with you means that they
are willing to risk the money that they used to buy chips. There are
lines that shouldn't be crossed in winning those chips and RamaShiva
has said that he _will_ cross those lines. On the other hand, nothing
he has explicitly said he does crosses those lines. I'm waiting for
him to tell us about those other things before I call him a thief.
--
Will in New Haven
Will in New Haven
> Will in New Haven <bill.re...@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
>
> >Will in New Haven
> >First Prize: A week in Newark
>
> Not so bad if you like the NJ Symphony and Portuguese food.
The Portugese food in Iron Bound (or is that one word?) is great. But
you're still in Newark.
ramashiva
wrote:
> "ramashiva" <ramash...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:64efd2b9-47b9-42ef...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 1, 10:22 pm, "Beldin the Sorcerer" <beldin...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
> > "ramashiva" <ramash...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > Poker is about getting the money, not adhering to some ethical code.
> > So beating you senseless in the parking lot is ok too, if it gets the money?
> Newsflash! Breaking card room rules is not a crime.
> Who's talking about cardroom rules?
> We're talking about ethical behavior
> Something you know nothing about
How big of an idiot are you???
Beating someone senseless in the parking lot is a felony.
Breaking cardroom rules is not even a crime.
You want to argue that because I say breaking the cardroom rules is
OK, I must also concede that beating someone senseless in the parking
lot is also OK.
You are a hopeless idiot.
William Coleman (ramashiva)
ppdls
> First Prize: A week in Newark
> Second Prize: A night with Bea
Third prize: TWO weeks in Newark???
ppdls
--
Why procrastinate today, when you could leave it until tomorrow?
-----�
John_Brian_K
> >
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/22980481@N04/3011351435/
Do you even play poker?
==========================================
You must not think me necessarily foolish because I am facetious,
nor will I consider you necessarily wise because you are grave.
==============================
47.6% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
JBK
----�
O-PGManager
> player consistently reach for his chips, then call.
I am not clueless. How could I have risen the ranks of the RGP
administrative hierarchy so fast and so young?
> You don't think I understand the concept of a reverse tell?
No, that was Gary.
> You think I just start using this method on a player without having
> first observed he consistently telegraphs when he is going to call?
It sounded like it. Take some responsibility for how you communicated in
the original post. The average player is not going to carelessly
telegraph headsup on the river the way he will preflop. You seemed to
imply if you saw this guy telegraph preflop you could carry over said
tells to the river. Whether that was your intention or not that's what
you implied in the OP.
Consistently observing how he behaves headsup on the river is not going to
be logistically possible before hours on the table.
> You are a clueless unsophisticated player. I would clean your clock
> in a live game.
Probably, but it can also be true you did a LOUSY job communicating in
your OP. It wasn't until your third post you included:
"I don't use the technique unless I first observe the player consistently
telegraphs his intention to call."
And yet you take a fellow coordinator to task for not assuming such when
it went unsaid! If it was so patently obvious that only an idiot would'nt
have assumed it's what you meant - then why bother stating it in the 3rd
post?
I'm still curious how long it takes to determine a pattern of telegraphing
on the river headsup late position situations.
Opie-GManager
Rec.Gambling.Poker
Assistant Newsgroup Coordinator reporting to Mr. Popinjay
John the Savage
>
> I am not clueless. How could I have risen the ranks of the RGP
> administrative hierarchy so fast and so young?
>
Uh, well it certainly wasn't by properly formatting your quoted
messages. Is there some reason why you snip out the name of the poster
you are replying to such that we have no idea whose words you quoted?
Can you fix that please? You are looking very uncoordinated.
ramashiva
> > You are clueless. I only employ this method after I have observed the
> > player consistently reach for his chips, then call.
> I am not clueless. How could I have risen the ranks of the RGP
> administrative hierarchy so fast and so young?
Because I recommended you. Paul and I were desperate after Bill
Bradley turned down the job.
> > You don't think I understand the concept of a reverse tell?
> No, that was Gary.
Really? Here is what you wrote --
"I know back in my amateur days when I wanted someone to check
because I was weak I would ALWAYS prematurely reach for my chips to
try to communicate "hell yeah I'll call you" when in reality I would
end up having to fold if he bet."
That is the description of a reverse tell, numbnuts. Stop taking
stupid pills.
> > You think I just start using this method on a player without having
> > first observed he consistently telegraphs when he is going to call?
> It sounded like it.
Really??? This is what I said --
"When a player telegraphs his actions during the play of a hand, I
take full advantage of that fact."
Please explain how I could assert that a player telegraphs his
actions, UNLESS I HAD OBSERVED HIM DOING IT.
You need to stop taking stupid pills.
> Take some responsibility for how you communicated in
> the original post. The average player is not going to carelessly
> telegraph headsup on the river the way he will preflop. You seemed to
> imply if you saw this guy telegraph preflop you could carry over said
> tells to the river. Whether that was your intention or not that's what
> you implied in the OP.
Of course, I implied no such thing. If you inferred it, then you need
to stop taking stupid pills.
> Consistently observing how he behaves headsup on the river is not going to
> be logistically possible before hours on the table.
Very true. So what?
> > You are a clueless unsophisticated player. I would clean your clock in a live game.
> Probably, but it can also be true you did a LOUSY job communicating in your OP.
My meaning was crystal to all but the obtuse.
> It wasn't until your third post you included:
> "I don't use the technique unless I first observe the player consistently
> telegraphs his intention to call."
After you and some other idiots started babbling about "strong means
weak" with most players. Like I didn't already know that.
> And yet you take a fellow coordinator
Fellow coordinator? My only position in newsgroup administration is
Assistant Newsgroup Ubertroll.
> to task for not assuming such when it went unsaid! If it was so patently obvious that only an idiot would'nt
> have assumed it's what you meant - then why bother stating it in the 3rd post?
Because idiots like you made it clear that it wasn't obvious that if I
said a player telegraphs his actions then I must have observed him
telegraphing his actions.
> I'm still curious how long it takes to determine a pattern of telegraphing
> on the river headsup late position situations.
Why are you curious about a question you have already answered?
William Coleman (ramashiva)
garycarson
> On Dec 5, 8:26�am, "O-PGManager" <ad63...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
> > > You are clueless. �I only employ this method after I have observed the
> > > player consistently reach for his chips, then call.
>
> > I am not clueless. �How could I have risen the ranks of the RGP
> > administrative hierarchy so fast and so young?
>
> Because I recommended you. Paul and I were desperate after Bill
> Bradley turned down the job.
>
> > > You don't think I understand the concept of a reverse tell?
>
> > No, that was Gary.
>
> Really? Here is what you wrote --
>
> "I know back in my amateur days when I wanted someone to check
> because I was weak I would ALWAYS prematurely reach for my chips to
> try to communicate "hell yeah I'll call you" when in reality I would
> end up having to fold if he bet."
>
> That is the description of a reverse tell, numbnuts. Stop taking
> stupid pills.
Actually that's the description of a tell, a classic tell in fact, not
the description of a reverse tell.
A reverse tell is when I do a hollywood act of reaching for my chips to
call when I want you to bet.
The key to interpretation is to observe much more than whether he reaches
for his chips, but how he does it. If he's noncholant and somewhat
mindless then he'll call, if he's acting he doesn't want you to bet (but
he might call anyway), if he's hollywooding then he'll probably raise.
But that all requires expert mindreading. Something I can accomplish but
worshipers of dead Indian Gods can't.
O-PGManager
> Uh, well it certainly wasn't by properly formatting your quoted
> messages. Is there some reason why you snip out the name of the poster
> you are replying to such that we have no idea whose words you quoted?
> Can you fix that please? You are looking very uncoordinated.
Sorry about that. In my reader I get a tree so it's not necessary.
Opie-GManager
Rec.Gambling.Poker
Assistant Newsgroup Coordinator reporting to Mr. Popinjay
____________________________________________________________________�
John the Savage
> On Dec 5 2009 12:06 PM, John the Savage wrote:
>
>> Uh, well it certainly wasn't by properly formatting your quoted
>> messages. Is there some reason why you snip out the name of the poster
>> you are replying to such that we have no idea whose words you quoted?
>> Can you fix that please? You are looking very uncoordinated.
>
> Sorry about that. In my reader I get a tree so it's not necessary.
>
Thank you. I tend to spend about half my time looking at the messages
in threaded form and half the time unthreaded sorted by timestamp. It's
an easier way to tell which threads are active and if someone has
responded to something interesting in an old thread. Either way, it's
just proper form to clearly show whom you are replying to. Your
cooperation has earned my support for your esteemed position. As long
as you don't show up in the news with any Brazilian mistresses, you
should be fine.
Beldin the Sorcerer
"garycarson" <garyc...@alumni.northwestern.edu> wrote in message
news:3ijqu6x...@recgroups.com...
Beldin the Sorcerer
> "ramashiva" <ramash...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:64efd2b9-47b9-42ef...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 1, 10:22 pm, "Beldin the Sorcerer" <beldin...@verizon.net>
> wrote:
> > "ramashiva" <ramash...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > Poker is about getting the money, not adhering to some ethical code.
> > So beating you senseless in the parking lot is ok too, if it gets the
> > money?
> Newsflash! Breaking card room rules is not a crime.
> Who's talking about cardroom rules?
> We're talking about ethical behavior
> Something you know nothing about
How big of an idiot are you???
***
Not one at all, moron.
***
Beating someone senseless in the parking lot is a felony.
***
Depends on the circumstances
***
Breaking cardroom rules is not even a crime.
***
Cheating at poker is almost definately a crime.
***
You want to argue that because I say breaking the cardroom rules is
OK, I must also concede that beating someone senseless in the parking
lot is also OK.
***
No, I want to argue that saying "whatever gets me the money is ok" is close
to robbery.
But you're a shithead, so I expected you to miss the point
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> "garycarson" <garycar...@alumni.northwestern.edu> wrote in message
I hadn't said a damn WORD to you, Beldin. Don't start with me.
--
Will, old and decrepit in New Haven
Roll, Tide, ROLL
Beldin the Sorcerer
"Will in New Haven" <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote in message
news:de8fbb55-5596-450e...@n13g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
***
Mister "In New Haven", sir.
Please be advised that you aren't at all decrepit.
Someone with whom you, unfortunately, share a first name, however, IS.
Please forgive the confusion.
You're not the Will I refer to
Move along.... move along