Question (hypothetical)

[BillB]

Is there ANY level of suffering and death that would persuade right-wingers to get vaccinated? What if Covid were 10x more deadly? 100x more deadly?

I am just wondering if we are only quibbling over the level of acceptable deaths.

700,000 dead (+ the suffering of survivors) in a year and a half seems pretty damn significant to me, but I guess I'm just an old softie.

[Splashie]

BUT CHICAGO SHOOTINGS!

Michael

[da pickle]

Interesting ... why is the latest flu vaccine not mandatory? Hundreds
of thousands die of it every year ... have been for many, many decades.
People get vaccinated because they do not want to catch the flu. Same
with the newest version. I got my vaccine and will be getting my
booster and regular flu shot this week. How about you? Unlikely you
will get the flu or the Covid if you are vaccinated. Those that are
unvaccinated might get it. Have kids in school been checked every year
to see if they have received their flu shots? Hummmmm /// no politics
involved in all this ... none at all.

Good to know that Canada has the world's problems solved.

[BTSinAustin]

Since 80% of covid deaths are among the old and obese we should just outlaw sugar right?

[VegasJerry]

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 6:13:49 PM UTC-7, BillB wrote:

> Is there ANY level of suffering and death that would persuade right-wingers to get vaccinated?

No, because there is no level of embarrassment they'd endure. It's like that dippy woman
on the news. Here she is, in the hospital, suffering, and the reporter asks, "Now are you going
to get the shots?"

And in her best, weakened, southern hick accent, said "No, never!" and turned her head from the camera

I do believe we have Darwin in action, here. There are 2,000 people a day dying. Over 99% are those without shots. Hopefully, they infected their own friends, family that also refused the shots. "Let's fill up the orphanages and start reteaching these kids of the dead.

[BillB]

That was a lot of words to avoid the question.

[BillB]

That doesn't seem practical, and you are assuming sugar causes obesity. I think it would make more sense to outlaw food.

But you avoided the question.

[Tim Norfolk]

According to https://www.verywellhealth.com/deaths-from-flu-2633829, the annual US deaths from influenza have been between 12,000 and 61,000 per year since 2010, and 3,000 to 49,000 from 1986 to 2007.

Those numbers are much lower than 700,000

[Dutch]

On 2021-09-20 5:40 a.m., da pickle wrote:
> On 9/19/2021 8:13 PM, BillB wrote:
>> Is there ANY level of suffering and death that would persuade
>> right-wingers to get vaccinated? What if Covid were 10x more deadly?
>> 100x more deadly?
>>
>> I am just wondering if we are only quibbling over the level of
>> acceptable deaths.
>>
>> 700,000 dead (+ the suffering of survivors) in a year and a half seems
>> pretty damn significant to me, but I guess I'm just an old softie.
>>
>
> Interesting ... why is the latest flu vaccine not mandatory?  Hundreds
> of thousands die of it every year ... have been for many, many decades.

That's false. The average annual death toll from influenza in the US
over the last decade is 35,900, from a low of 12,000 to a high of
61,000.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_influenza_statistics_by_flu_season
And consider that is with people in full social contact, riding crowded
buses, attending crowded events, working together in poorly ventilated
spaces.

Contrast that with Covid-19, people avoiding one another, staying home,
wearing masks, yet half a million dead Americans in one year.

Still, the Covid-19 vaccine is not mandatory.

>  People get vaccinated because they do not want to catch the flu.  Same
> with the newest version.  I got my vaccine and will be getting my
> booster and regular flu shot this week.  How about you?  Unlikely you
> will get the flu or the Covid if you are vaccinated.  Those that are
> unvaccinated might get it.  Have kids in school been checked every year
> to see if they have received their flu shots?   Hummmmm /// no politics
> involved in all this ... none at all.

Aside from the ever-present anti-vax nutcases, the political nonsense
around this pandemic is coming almost completely from the right. You
don't want to be bossed around by a lefty and you don't want Biden to
succeed, so you risk your life and the lives of others in your community
by resisting public health measures. And you think you should be trusted
to govern.

> Good to know that Canada has the world's problems solved.

Canada has the advantage of having a lower proportion of right wing
boneheads than the US. That accounts for most of our relative success
with Covid.

[Bill Vanek]

On Sep 20, 2021, Dutch wrote
(in article <siam27$io9$1...@dont-email.me>):

> Canada has the advantage of having a lower proportion of right wing
> boneheads than the US.

What other groups do you have a lower proportion of?

[BTSinAustin]

People avoid a lot of questions around here

[Dutch]

Probably fewer left-wing nuts too, and fewer gun fetishists, but that's
due to fewer right wing boneheads. Canadians overall are a sensible,
pragmatic lot.

[Bill Vanek]

On Sep 20, 2021, Dutch wrote

(in article <siamv8$4vu$1...@dont-email.me>):

You’re kind of avoiding the elephant, ain’tcha?

[Dutch]

On 2021-09-20 12:37 p.m., Bill Vanek wrote:
> On Sep 20, 2021, Dutch wrote
> (in article <siamv8$4vu$1...@dont-email.me>):
>
>> On 2021-09-20 12:14 p.m., Bill Vanek wrote:
>>> On Sep 20, 2021, Dutch wrote
>>> (in article <siam27$io9$1...@dont-email.me>):
>>>
>>>> Canada has the advantage of having a lower proportion of right wing
>>>> boneheads than the US.
>>>
>>> What other groups do you have a lower proportion of?
>>
>> Probably fewer left-wing nuts too, and fewer gun fetishists, but that's
>> due to fewer right wing boneheads. Canadians overall are a sensible,
>> pragmatic lot.
>
> You’re kind of avoiding the elephant, ain’tcha?

Oh right of course.. we have universal medicare, so we don't have
millions of poor people with little or no access or connection to
doctors or other health care providers. It goes without saying here,
whoever you are, from ultra-rich to the homeless, if you have a medical
need you can go and get it addressed, there's no need for money, same as
The UK, France, Australia and every other civilized place on earth. That
creates a level of basic belief and trust in the system that you
probably can't comprehend.

[BillB]

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 12:05:47 PM UTC-7, Dutch wrote:
> On 2021-09-20 5:40 a.m., da pickle wrote:
> > On 9/19/2021 8:13 PM, BillB wrote:
> >> Is there ANY level of suffering and death that would persuade
> >> right-wingers to get vaccinated? What if Covid were 10x more deadly?
> >> 100x more deadly?
> >>
> >> I am just wondering if we are only quibbling over the level of
> >> acceptable deaths.
> >>
> >> 700,000 dead (+ the suffering of survivors) in a year and a half seems
> >> pretty damn significant to me, but I guess I'm just an old softie.
> >>
> >
> > Interesting ... why is the latest flu vaccine not mandatory? Hundreds
> > of thousands die of it every year ... have been for many, many decades.
> That's false. The average annual death toll from influenza in the US
> over the last decade is 35,900, from a low of 12,000 to a high of
> 61,000.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_influenza_statistics_by_flu_season
> And consider that is with people in full social contact, riding crowded
> buses, attending crowded events, working together in poorly ventilated
> spaces.
>
> Contrast that with Covid-19, people avoiding one another, staying home,
> wearing masks, yet half a million dead Americans in one year.

I thought we were WAY past fools suggesting that "it's no worse than the seasonal flu." Apparently I was wrong.

But 35,000 is still a significant number. Maybe we *should* be considering a flu vaccine passport. There are also a lot of secondary benefits to keeping these virus dumpsters confined to their homes. Just think of the reductions in rush hour traffic. Also, you'd be more likely to get a good table at a popular restaurant.

[Splashie]

That number is a statistical estimate, not confirmed deaths like with Covid: https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-covid-19-deaths-to-flu-deaths-is-like-comparing-apples-to-oranges/

Comparing COVID-19 Deaths to Flu Deaths Is like Comparing Apples to Oranges
The former are actual numbers; the latter are inflated statistical estimates

By Jeremy Samuel Faust on April 28, 2020

In late February, when the stock market was beginning to fall over coronavirus fears, President Donald Trump held a briefing at the White House to reassure people that there was little chance of the virus causing significant disruption in the United States.

“I want you to understand something that shocked me when I saw it,” he said. “The flu, in our country, kills from 25,000 people to 69,000 people a year. That was shocking to me.”

His point was to suggest that the coronavirus was no worse than the flu, whose toll of deaths most of us apparently barely noticed.

In early April, as social distancing measures began to succeed in flattening the curve in some parts of the country, an influential forecasting model revised the number of American deaths from coronavirus that it was projecting by summer downward to 60,400, and some people again began making comparisons to the flu, arguing that, if this will ultimately be no worse than a bad flu season, we should open the country up for business again. (On April 22, the model’s forecast rose to 67,641 deaths.)

But these arguments, like the president’s comments, are based on a flawed understanding of how flu deaths are counted, which may leave us with a distorted view of how coronavirus compares with it.

When reports about the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 began circulating earlier this year and questions were being raised about how the illness it causes, COVID-19, compared to the flu, it occurred to me that, in four years of emergency medicine residency and over three and a half years as an attending physician, I had almost never seen anyone die of the flu. I could only remember one tragic pediatric case.

Based on the CDC numbers though, I should have seen many, many more. In 2018, over 46,000 Americans died from opioid overdoses. Over 36,500 died in traffic accidents. Nearly 40,000 died from gun violence. I see those deaths all the time. Was I alone in noticing this discrepancy?

I decided to call colleagues around the country who work in other emergency departments and in intensive care units to ask a simple question: how many patients could they remember dying from the flu? Most of the physicians I surveyed couldn’t remember a single one over their careers. Some said they recalled a few. All of them seemed to be having the same light bulb moment I had already experienced: For too long, we have blindly accepted a statistic that does not match our clinical experience.

The 25,000 to 69,000 numbers that Trump cited do not represent counted flu deaths per year; they are estimates that the CDC produces by multiplying the number of flu death counts reported by various coefficients produced through complicated algorithms. These coefficients are based on assumptions of how many cases, hospitalizations, and deaths they believe went unreported. In the last six flu seasons, the CDC’s reported number of actual confirmed flu deaths—that is, counting flu deaths the way we are currently counting deaths from the coronavirus—has ranged from 3,448 to 15,620, which far lower than the numbers commonly repeated by public officials and even public health experts.

There is some logic behind the CDC’s methods. There are, of course, some flu deaths that are missed, because not everyone who contracts the flu gets a flu test. But there are little data to support the CDC’s assumption that the number of people who die of flu each year is on average six times greater than the number of flu deaths that are actually confirmed. In fact, in the fine print, the CDC’s flu numbers also include pneumonia deaths.

The CDC should immediately change how it reports flu deaths. While in the past it was justifiable to err on the side of substantially overestimating flu deaths, in order to encourage vaccination and good hygiene, at this point the CDC’s reporting about flu deaths is dangerously misleading the public and even public officials about the comparison between these two viruses. If we incorrectly conclude that COVID-19 is “just another flu,” we may retreat from strategies that appear to be working in minimizing the speed of spread of the virus.

To do this, we have to compare counted deaths to counted deaths, not counted deaths to wildly inflated statistical estimates. If we compare, for instance, the number of people who died in the United States from COVID-19 in the second full week of April to the number of people who died from influenza during the worst week of the past seven flu seasons (as reported to the CDC), we find that the novel coronavirus killed between 9.5 and 44 times more people than seasonal flu. In other words, the coronavirus is not anything like the flu: It is much, much worse.

From this perspective, the data on coronavirus and flu actually match—rather than flying in the face of—our lived reality in the coronavirus pandemic: hospitals in hot spots stretched to their limits and, in New York City in particular, so many dead that the bodies are stacked in refrigerator trucks. We have never seen such conditions.

In that briefing in late February, Trump downplayed the likelihood that the virus would spread significantly in the United States and that extreme measures like closing schools would need to be taken, saying that “we have it so well under control” and returning again to the flu.

“Sixty-nine thousand people die every year—from 26 to 69—every year from the flu,” he said. “Now, think of that. It’s incredible.”

We now know that Trump was disastrously wrong about the threat that the coronavirus posed to the United States. But his take that the cited numbers of flu deaths were incredible? On that, he was spot-on.

The views expressed are those of the author(s) and are not necessarily those of Scientific American.

ABOUT THE AUTHOR(S)
Jeremy Samuel Faust
Jeremy Samuel Faust, M.D., M.S., M.A., FACEP,
 practices emergency medicine at Brigham & Women's Hospital, is an instructor at Harvard Medical School, and is president of the Roomful of Teeth Vocal Arts Project.

© 2020 SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, A DIVISION OF NATURE AMERICA, INC.

ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

[John_Brian_K]

Dude has underlining heart condition, tests positive for covid, dies, it goes down as a covid death and you are sitting here talking about how flu deaths are over estimated? Half my family and friends work in medical...gtf outta here with that nonsense.

[Dutch]

On 2021-09-20 1:55 p.m., John_Brian_K wrote:
> Dude has underlining heart condition, tests positive for covid, dies, it goes down as a covid death and you are sitting here talking about how flu deaths are over estimated? Half my family and friends work in medical...gtf outta here with that nonsense.

A very large number of people have ome kind of underlying medical
condition or another. If one of them contracts Covid-19 then suffocates
and dies when they otherwise would have continued living, then Covid
killed them, even though a more healthy person might have survived.

[Splashie]

On Monday, September 20, 2021 at 1:55:21 PM UTC-7, John_Brian_K wrote:

> Dude has underlining heart condition, tests positive for covid, dies, it goes down as a covid death and you are sitting here talking about how flu deaths are over estimated? Half my family and friends work in medical...gtf outta here with that nonsense.

Flu deaths ARE overestimated. There aren't 36,000 death certificates a year that list influenza as the cause. That's the point. CDC states repeatedly that their numbers are based on statistical models that assume some level of underreporting. And as far as this (hypothetical?) underlining [sic] heart condition goes, the reason such a death goes down as a COVID death is because dude was ALIVE with his heart condition UNTIL he caught COVID - kinda like how George Floyd was alive with all of his conditions until Derek Chauvin knelt on his neck for nine minutes. I know a lot of people who work in the medical field as well and they'd call you a fucking moron for thinking there's some grand conspiracy to overstate COVID deaths - if anything, those have actually been undercounted, particularly early in the pandemic.

Michael

[BillB]

Almost everyone has some kind of underlying condition, but doctors look at the immediate, primary cause of death. It's a "but for" test. As in, "but for" Chauvin kneeling on his neck for nine minutes, would George's pre-existing heart condition have killed him that day? The answer was of course no, therefore...murder.

[Tim Norfolk]

Then you have the secondary problem: Something like 600,000 to 900,000 Americans above expectations died last year. Something killed them.

[Bill Vanek]

On Sep 20, 2021, Tim Norfolk wrote
(in article<6cfb4ee5-a201-4200...@googlegroups.com>):

Liberalism killed them.

[VegasJerry]

Then you should have no trouble showing us how.

*** PLONK! ***

And I run off Vanishing Vanek with his tail between his legs, once again....

[Mossingen]

"Tim Norfolk" wrote in message
news:91be942a-8530-45bc...@googlegroups.com...

____________


From this, you conclude what exactly? Is 700,000 the threshold for
government intervention and mandates?

[Mossingen]

"BillB" wrote in message
news:fb87baf0-fbb2-44e5...@googlegroups.com...

_____________



The survival rate is way over 99% for all cases, and approaching zero for
otherwise healthy persons under 50. I think that's a big reason why a lot
of people do not take it seriously.

Right wingers don't trust government like you do, so there is also that.
But, I think the main problem is a disconnect between the sky-is-falling
news reports and the reality that life is pretty much normal without a
government power-grab.

What is your opinion on Australia and how it is handling things? Too
heavy-handed? Not enough?

[BTSinAustin]

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:13:49 PM UTC-4, BillB wrote:

Why not include the huge percentage of black and brown people that refuse it?

[Tim Norfolk]

Are really an idiot, or is it that you can't read?

The comment was on the number of cases of flu versus Covid, and I gave correct ones.

[Tim Norfolk]

Now it's your turn. The case death rate is approximately 1.67%, with ten times that many having major long-term health issues as a result.

[Tim Norfolk]

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 12:56:41 PM UTC-4, Mossingen wrote:

Also, there are fairly large numbers of healthy younger people dying of Covid. My wife is a healthcare professional, and is getting 1 or more such death in our little area every day.

[VegasJerry]

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 9:56:41 AM UTC-7, Mossingen wrote:
> "BillB" wrote in message
> news:fb87baf0-fbb2-44e5...@googlegroups.com...
> Is there ANY level of suffering and death that would persuade right-wingers
> to get vaccinated? What if Covid were 10x more deadly? 100x more deadly?
>
> I am just wondering if we are only quibbling over the level of acceptable
> deaths.
>
> 700,000 dead (+ the suffering of survivors) in a year and a half seems
> pretty damn significant to me, but I guess I'm just an old softie.
> _____________
>
>
>
> The survival rate is way over 99% for all cases, and approaching zero for
> otherwise healthy persons under 50. I think that's a big reason why a lot
> of people do not take it seriously.

No, that’s not why. If the survival rate for falling out of a 3ed story window is 98%; do you intentionally jump?


> Right wingers don't trust government like you do so there is also that.

That’s what makes them stupid right wingers. They trust QAnon, FOX, Breitbart News, OANN, Facebook, Twitter and Newsmax. And that’s the 99% that die in the hospital because they got covid and not the shots.

> But, I think the main problem is a disconnect between the sky-is-falling
> news reports

Then ones reporting the deaths of those that don’t get the shots?
Where is the ‘disconnect?’

> and the reality that life is pretty much normal without a government power-grab.

What power-grab? And what’s that to do with facts regarding getting shots?

> What is your opinion on Australia and how it is handling things? Too
> heavy-handed? Not enough?

What’s your opinion on getting the virous shots?

[VegasJerry]

And, of course, he couldn't. He Ran & Hid like the lying coward I proved him to be.

[Mossingen]

"Tim Norfolk" wrote in message

news:001f0790-ce4a-4f46...@googlegroups.com...

Now it's your turn. The case death rate is approximately 1.67%, with ten
times that many having major long-term health issues as a result.

________


My turn for what? You didn't address a single question I asked.

Also, show your work. 1.67% for which population?

The people in the work force, who you see everyday in normal society, are
18-50, and unless they have some sort of obesity problem or other health
issue, virtually none of them have anything to fear from COVID.

[Mossingen]

"Tim Norfolk" wrote in message

news:076d1422-3ee8-421a...@googlegroups.com...

Also, there are fairly large numbers of healthy younger people dying of
Covid. My wife is a healthcare professional, and is getting 1 or more such
death in our little area every day.

___________


I do not believe you. You're making a claim here. Other than anecdotal
stories from your wife, what are the actual numbers? Healthy young people
do not die of COVID "in fairly large numbers." I can be convinced by proper
evidence, but I do not believe this to be true.

[Mossingen]

"Tim Norfolk" wrote in message

news:2b1d8602-2c6d-4ec6...@googlegroups.com...

The comment was on the number of cases of flu versus Covid, and I gave
correct ones.

______


OK. Which means what?

[Tim Norfolk]

Which means what risky said was incorrect. Covid is much worse than the flu.

[Tim Norfolk]

Here is the case fatality ratio: https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Here is the death and hospitalization rate per cohort: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-age.html

Excess mortality in Americans between 25 and 44 is estimated at 12,000 between March 1 and July 31. About 40% of those deaths are atributed to Covid: https://www.businessinsider.com/young-americans-dying-historic-numbers-covid-19-2021-1

Of the young people who have died of the disease, 25% had no underlying health condition: https://www.upi.com/Health_News/2020/09/15/75-of-youths-who-died-from-COVID-19-had-underlying-health-conditions/1781600190309/

Now, as to the real point: asthma is the most common underlying condition for young people, and that is not generally fatal at that age, is it?

[BillB]

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 9:56:41 AM UTC-7, Mossingen wrote:

> "BillB" wrote in message
> news:fb87baf0-fbb2-44e5...@googlegroups.com...
> Is there ANY level of suffering and death that would persuade right-wingers
> to get vaccinated? What if Covid were 10x more deadly? 100x more deadly?
>
> I am just wondering if we are only quibbling over the level of acceptable
> deaths.
>
> 700,000 dead (+ the suffering of survivors) in a year and a half seems
> pretty damn significant to me, but I guess I'm just an old softie.
> _____________
>
>
>
> The survival rate is way over 99% for all cases, and approaching zero for
> otherwise healthy persons under 50.

First, I'm pretty sure it's much higher than 1% death rate, at least for confirmed cases. I think it's 50% higher than that, at least.

Second, even if it were 1%, you make that sound like it's no big deal. It is! This is a disease that's just going to keep spreading and spreading until almost everyone eventually gets it. We're talking about over 3,000,000 deaths in the US. Almost 700,000 already. 1 in 500 Americans, already dead. I think I calculated previously that 1 in 100 American, already dead. Then there's the suffering of survivors and the untold long-term effects. That's a BIG deal! And the new variants that catch on seem to be increasingly virulent. Personally, I think the government is quietly terrified that a variant will emerge that is a super-killer. By comparison, remember when the world changed because 2,977 died?

> I think that's a big reason why a lot
> of people do not take it seriously.

Well, if you don't take it seriously you're either an asshole, an idiot, or both.

> Right wingers don't trust government like you do, so there is also that.

They sure don't.

> But, I think the main problem is a disconnect between the sky-is-falling
> news reports and the reality that life is pretty much normal without a
> government power-grab.

The sky isn't falling, but it could, and the level of death and suffering and economic damage that has ALREADY occurred is totally unacceptable. This has to be stopped. It's a war effort, except few wars have anywhere near this level of casualties.

> What is your opinion on Australia and how it is handling things? Too
> heavy-handed? Not enough?

I'll have to get back to you on Australia. I don't know what's going on Down Under.

[BillB]

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 7:26:58 PM UTC-7, BillB wrote:

. Almost 700,000 already. 1 in 500 Americans, already dead. I think I calculated previously that 1 in 100 American, already dead.

Sorry, I meant to type 1 in 100 American senior citizens.

[BillB]

Just about every adult should be vaccinated, but the reason I focus on right-wingers is these are the people I see on a daily basis who are passing off all the disinformation and encouraging people not to get vaccinated, primarily for warped political reasons. There is NO WAY 60% of Republicans (the furthest right faction) could come up with such a grossly illogical position (against the advice of at least 95% of infectious disease experts) independently, no matter how low their average IQ is. They are just "backing their team." It a game to them. It's all political, and they really don't care how many hundreds of thousands of deaths it cause. From the polls I've read, minority groups are just more indifferent and apathetic. Most say they'll "get around to it." Others have been influence by the right-wing pro-death propaganda campaign. So ya, they should be vaccinated too, but they aren't generally on some kind of bizarre Crusade of Death mission like the looney right-wingers.

[VegasJerry]

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 1:11:06 PM UTC-7, VegasJerry wrote:
> On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 9:56:41 AM UTC-7, Mossingen wrote:
> > "BillB" wrote in message
> > news:fb87baf0-fbb2-44e5...@googlegroups.com...
> > Is there ANY level of suffering and death that would persuade right-wingers
> > to get vaccinated? What if Covid were 10x more deadly? 100x more deadly?
> >
> > I am just wondering if we are only quibbling over the level of acceptable
> > deaths.
> >
> > 700,000 dead (+ the suffering of survivors) in a year and a half seems
> > pretty damn significant to me, but I guess I'm just an old softie.
> > _____________
> >
> >
> >
> > The survival rate is way over 99% for all cases, and approaching zero for
> > otherwise healthy persons under 50. I think that's a big reason why a lot
> > of people do not take it seriously.

> No, that’s not why. If the survival rate for falling out of a 3ed story window is 98%; do you intentionally jump?

**** NO ANSWER OR LOGIC NOTED ****
(The cowardly asshole Ran & Hid)

> > Right wingers don't trust government like you do so there is also that.
>
> That’s what makes them stupid right wingers. They trust QAnon, FOX, Breitbart News, OANN, Facebook, Twitter and Newsmax. And that’s the 99% that die in the hospital because they got covid and not the shots.
> > But, I think the main problem is a disconnect between the sky-is-falling
> > news reports

> The ones reporting the deaths of those that don’t get the shots?
> Where is the ‘disconnect?’

**** NO ANSWER NOTED ****
(The cowardly asshole Ran & Hid)

> > and the reality that life is pretty much normal without a government power-grab.

> What power-grab? And what’s that to do with facts regarding getting shots?

**** NO ANSWER NOTED ****
(The cowardly asshole Ran & Hid)

> > What is your opinion on Australia and how it is handling things? Too
> > heavy-handed? Not enough?

> What’s your opinion on getting the virous shots?

**** NO ANSWER OR LOGIC NOTED ****
(The cowardly asshole Ran & Hid)

[VegasJerry]

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 3:46:35 PM UTC-7, Mossingen wrote:
> "Tim Norfolk" wrote in message
> news:001f0790-ce4a-4f46...@googlegroups.com...
> Now it's your turn. The case death rate is approximately 1.67%, with ten
> times that many having major long-term health issues as a result.
> ________
>
>
> My turn for what? You didn't address a single question I asked.

Back up, asshole. YOU didn't address a single question "I" asked.

**** NO ANSWER OR LOGIC NOTED ****
(The cowardly asshole Ran & Hid)

> The people in the work force, who you see everyday in normal society, are
> 18-50, and unless they have some sort of obesity problem or other health
> issue, virtually none of them have anything to fear from COVID.

ANOTHER outright rightwing lie. Who the fuck's dying at the rate of over 2,000 a day?

ANSWER REQUIRED

[VegasJerry]

On Friday, September 24, 2021 at 3:47:35 PM UTC-7, Mossingen wrote:
> "Tim Norfolk" wrote in message
> news:076d1422-3ee8-421a...@googlegroups.com...
> Also, there are fairly large numbers of healthy younger people dying of
> Covid. My wife is a healthcare professional, and is getting 1 or more such
> death in our little area every day.
> ___________
>
>
> I do not believe you.

You don't have to, but it's documented fact.

> You're making a claim here.

Yea, a document one. Try reading something other than QAnon, FOX, Breitbart

News, OANN, Facebook, Twitter and Newsmax.

> Other than anecdotal
>stories from your wife, what are the actual numbers?

Greater than 2,000 a day.
https://www.cdc.gov/

Read it and weep, asshole. YOU are a danger to the rest of us.

> I can be convinced by proper evidence, but I do not believe this to be true.

https://www.cdc.gov/
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html

Read it and weep, asshole. YOU are a danger to the rest of us.

[VegasJerry]

*** NO ANSWER NOTED ***

MossWipe on the Run & Hide again...........

[BTSinAustin]

My GF's daughter and her boyfriend are sick as dogs from Covid and both are fully vaxxed.

[BillB]

Lucky for them they were vaccinated. If they are sick as dogs *with* vaccination, they'd probably be in the ICU without.

[BTSinAustin]

I was sick for a week. Lost smell and taste another week. Zinc brought that right back.

[BillB]

Okay, I'll bite. How do you know it was the zinc?

[VegasJerry]

But, as advertised, not dead. Good for them, the shots probably saved their lives.

[VegasJerry]

You smell now?

(Heh, sorry..........)

[BTSinAustin]

LOL right, 25 year olds are dropping like flies.

[BTSinAustin]

Doc said to take it and smell came back. Seems logical

[Dutch]

You don't know that zinc brought it back. Most people get their sense of
taste back.

[BTSinAustin]

And you dont know if it didn't.

[BillB]

According to the National Institutes of Health, there's no good evidence it works at all, let alone specifically for taste and smell. It has been tried in studies using very high doses (10-20x RDA) but the NIH recommends against supplementation over the RDA outside a supervised clinical trial.

[BillB]

lol...come on, man.

[Tim Norfolk]

Strangely enough, the over-the-counter Zinc cold remedy Zicam was responsible for permanent loss of smell in a significant number of cases.

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/news/20100719/study-links-zinc-nose-sprays-loss-smell#:~:text=In%20lawsuits%20brought%20by%20Zicam%20users%2C%20Matrixx%20has,loss%20of%20smell%20and%20diminished%20sense%20of%20smell.

[Dutch]

I never made that claim.

[Tim Norfolk]

The old excluded middle in action.

[VegasJerry]

So, contrary to what science says, you believe the shots had no effect on mitigating the effects of the Covid?

[VegasJerry]

Good. I'll pass that along to my sister. Did the doc say how much to take?