Thinking of taking the plunge into Professional Poker
Preston
the usual big bet an hour. Right now I have a cush job in Dallas that
has allowed me to save up quite a bit of money, but my six year old
daughter is in LA and I need to be closer to her. I've started looking
for a job out there, but I find myself questioning why I would work
harder and more hours for less money than the $30 an hour I feel I
should be able to get at $15-30 at one of the LA casinos.
Now my experience at $15-30 is pretty limited- about 11 hours or so.
But out of those $20 hours I've won $1800 in some of the loosest and
most bizarre games I've seen. I know that this is not even close to a
long term average, but it does reinforce in my mind that the game is
plenty soft if I chose to make my living that way.
But the other people in my life actively discourage me and I guess I
don't have the courage to really do it. I feel I need to have a day
job to go to just so I can say I do something, else I will be labeled
as a loser.
I guess I'm torn and looking for advice.
Sincerely,
Preston
XaQ Morphy
> I guess I'm torn and looking for advice.
Have you investigated housing/renting costs in the area you want to live?
Have you investigated health insurance in the area you want to live?
Do you have a bankroll of 500 big bets (minimum, I'd say) for the level
you want to play?
Do you have 6 months living expenses based on the costs above saved away?
Have you tried playing poker for 40+ hours a week for at least, oh, 12
weeks in a row?
---
Morphy
xaqm...@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
-----
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
Preston
> On Feb 8 2008 5:58 PM, Preston wrote:
>
> > I guess I'm torn and looking for advice.
>
> Have you investigated housing/renting costs in the area you want to live?
>
> Have you investigated health insurance in the area you want to live?
>
> Do you have a bankroll of 500 big bets (minimum, I'd say) for the level
> you want to play?
>
health insurance at around $500 a quarter
> Do you have 6 months living expenses based on the costs above saved away?
>
I have access to $30k or so if it comes to that, but I'm not sure I
have the psychological fortitude to really go for more if I'm down
10-15k or so.
> Have you tried playing poker for 40+ hours a week for at least, oh, 12
> weeks in a row?
>
No
> ---
> Morphy
> xaqmor...@donkeymanifesto.comhttp://www.donkeymanifesto.com
johnny_t
If you can go broke and not care. Do it. If you need the money for
your daughter, find a real job and put in hours to see if you can do it.
You have not played enough, and 1800 dollars is not enough money to make
a decision one way or another.
A bad streak will come, a point where you always get sucked out on. It
will happen, you will start breaking even and it will become really hard.
20-30 bucks an hour is freaking chump change. Get a real job. With a
real paycheck, and benefits an stuff.
anthonygt
On Feb 8 2008 7:40 PM, Preston wrote:
> On Feb 8, 6:31=A0pm, "XaQ Morphy" wrote:
> > On Feb 8 2008 5:58 PM, Preston wrote:
> >
> > > I guess I'm torn and looking for advice.
> >
> > Have you investigated housing/renting costs in the area you want to live?
> >
> > Have you investigated health insurance in the area you want to live?
> >
> > Do you have a bankroll of 500 big bets (minimum, I'd say) for the level
> > you want to play?
> >
> around $1000 a month
> health insurance at around $500 a quarter
>
> > Do you have 6 months living expenses based on the costs above saved away?
> >
>
> I have access to $30k or so if it comes to that, but I'm not sure I
> have the psychological fortitude to really go for more if I'm down
> 10-15k or so.
>
> > Have you tried playing poker for 40+ hours a week for at least, oh, 12
> > weeks in a row?
> >
>
> No
> > ---
> > Morphy
> > xaqmor...@donkeymanifesto.comhttp://www.donkeymanifesto.com/
> >
> > -----=A0
_______________________________________________________________
Watch Lists, Block Lists, Favorites - http://www.recpoker.com
Abbey Johnsson
On Feb 8 2008 5:07 PM, johnny_t wrote:
>
>
> 20-30 bucks an hour is freaking chump change.
It is? The median household income in the US is about 50k/year which is
$25/hour. I didnt realize what a poor country the US is with the average
household/person surviving on "chump change".
Preston
Abbey Johnsson
View profile
More options Feb 8, 7:40 pm
On Feb 8 2008 5:07 PM, johnny_t wrote:
> 20-30 bucks an hour is freaking chump change.
I'm not sure what you do for a living, but $30 an hour is just fine
for me.
And, in response to the other poster, I have thousands of hours of
live poker experience, just not much at $15-30.
As far as I can tell, the only difference is the color of the chips.
bigjimmf1
Preston wrote:
> I've played poker as a hobby a lot. I keep records and I do win about
> the usual big bet an hour. I feel I
> should be able to get at $15-30 at one of the LA casinos.
>
> My experience at $15-30 is pretty limited- about 11 hours or so.
>
> I feel I need to have a day
> job to go to just so I can say I do something, else I will be labeled
> as a loser.
>
> I guess I'm torn and looking for advice.
>
> Sincerely,
> Preston
>
Have you considered custody?
--
bigjimmf1
Preston
>
> Have you considered custody?
>
> --
> bigjimmf1
My ex and I get along quite well. She has physical custody of her, but
that's largely because I've been in another state. We have joint legal
custody of her and I have unlimited visitation rights. Why do you ask?
Super Steamer
11 hours isn't even a blip on the radar screen, you need a lot more hours under
your belt. Were those 11 hours on a weekend? On a Friday night you get all
sorts of weekend warriors who just got paid, Saturday and Sunday arent that bad
either, but what about during the week, when all the average Joes are at work.
then the game gets harder to beat, a real grind it can be. Make sure you can
beat the game during the week as well as on the weekend, and during the day
during the week, unless you want to spend all your nights in the casino.
I really don't think you're ready for that kind of commitment, 11 hours is one
or two sessions at best, and really doesnt give much of an indication at all
whether you are ready. I would seriously find some kind of good work in Los
Angeles before you give up your cushy job in Dallas.
bigjimmf1
It doesn't seem like a good idea to move to CA and become a professional
poker player because:
- you have a family
- you sound as if you lack experience
- you have a "cush job"
- you have money saved
- you need to seriously re-think "I find myself questioning why I would
work harder and more hours for less money than the $30 an hour I feel I
should be able to get at $15-30" gambling
Listen to your friends.
--
bigjimmf1
Preston
I don't lack experience. I have logged thousands of hours playing and
I don't understand why people don't respect that. But the feedback I'm
getting here is all negative. So I suppose that answers my question.
Ya bunch of haters.
A Man Beaten by Jacks
wrote:
>> Have you considered custody?
>My ex and I get along quite well. She has physical custody of her, but
>that's largely because I've been in another state. We have joint legal
>custody of her and I have unlimited visitation rights. Why do you ask?
If custody ever becomes disputed, do you think that being a professional
gambler will look good?
Slim1Der
Search a thread on RPG labled "FellKinght Goes Pro"
It should tell you all you need to know about this.
Slim
Preston
Thank you very much Slim.
arlo payne
Take two weeks off from your job.
Go to LA and play 15-30 60 hours a week for the two weeks.
That should answer your question.
_______________________________________________________________
* New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
XaQ Morphy
> I have access to $30k or so if it comes to that, but I'm not sure I
> have the psychological fortitude to really go for more if I'm down
> 10-15k or so.
I asked questions that would come to mind for me if I were to ask the
question of myself if I could play poker for a living. For me the answer
would be never in a million years, because I wouldn't be able to make more
at the tables than what I make in IT, but if I were to consider it, those
would be the types of questions I would ask myself.
Another big question is this, at least for me. If I look back to how much
I've progressed over the years in my 15 year IT career, the technology has
taken drastic jumps along the way, and my skills and pay along with it.
If I were to be out of IT for even 2 years, I don't know how I would 1)
get back into it with that lack of keeping up with things, and 2) explain
to possible employers my 2 year absence from the industry without flat out
saying I was playing poker.
Just consider the big picture as you think things through. Don't have a
heater month and look back and say "holy shit, I could play for a living
with months like that" and jump right in.
Ask yourself what you would do if you lost 3 months in a row. It will
happen. Can you survive if you have not only zero income, but negative
income?
______________________________________________________________________
arlo payne
Long long ago I had 3 months playing everyday where I did not book one win.
Talk about a mind fuck.
_______________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
Auburn Sam
On Feb 8 2008 3:58 PM, Preston wrote:
Take a weeks vacation.
Fly to LA on a roundtrip. $350
Book a week in hotel. $400
Rent a car for the week. $150
Food budget $200
Play and hang out at the Bike or Commerce for 10-12hrs each day.
Bankroll yourself $2500 and see if you can grind out $200/day.
$1100 for a vacation (not counting your roll cause you're gonna beat the games
you play) and first hand experience.
Come back and tell us what happened and what You think.
Auburn Sam
ghous
job.
--
All new "YouTube Style" Poker Videos:
http://pokerTVnetwork.com
--
posted via http://LiveActionPoker.com
XaQ Morphy
> I don't lack experience. I have logged thousands of hours playing and
> I don't understand why people don't respect that. But the feedback I'm
> getting here is all negative. So I suppose that answers my question.
> Ya bunch of haters.
I wouldn't say haters. If you post a question like that (which by the way
has been discussed several bazillion times on RGP in the past), and all
the answers are negative, what does that tell you about your decision? I
can tell you've already made up your mind...you're just posting here to
get some approval so that you can justify your decision to yourself.
Bottom line is if you decide to play for a living we'll never see you
again so it really doesn't matter what RGP has to say.
---
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com
CheckRazor
> Search a thread on RPG labled "FellKinght Goes Pro"
> It should tell you all you need to know about this.
>
> - Show quoted text -
>>>Did he ever really try being a pro in Vegas? From what I remember he moved to Arizona with Tanya and started a (now-defunct) clothing store called Ragz4hagz or something like that.
Preston
Well the goal is to be closer to my daughter who lives in LA, hence
the move and leaving the cush job.
Realistically I'm going to give it a try for a couple of weeks and see
how it goes. If it doesn't work out,
well, nothing ventured nothing gained.
I suppose I'm really trying to understand the negative perception
based on those who take part in the lifestyle itself?
Jonathan
whats so wrong with finding a job in LA just lke anyone esle would that had to
switch towns, you know the poker room is open 24 hours and the games will be
twice as good at night.
On Feb 9 2008 1:41 AM, Preston wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------------
me and you, we'll never get along, i hate the way you play your hands and you
wear your gun all wrong.
_______________________________________________________________
New Feature: Mark All As Read! - http://www.recpoker.com
henri
wrote:
>On Feb 8, 11:57 pm, ghous <gh31...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Why dont you play on the internet? Then you wont even have to quit your
>> job.
>> All new "YouTube Style" Poker Videos:http://pokerTVnetwork.com
>> posted viahttp://LiveActionPoker.com
>Well the goal is to be closer to my daughter who lives in LA, hence
>the move and leaving the cush job.
>Realistically I'm going to give it a try for a couple of weeks and see
>how it goes. If it doesn't work out,
>well, nothing ventured nothing gained.
>I suppose I'm really trying to understand the negative perception
>based on those who take part in the lifestyle itself?
Maybe they have some actual knowledge about what being a "professional
poker player" entails, and have seen person after person try and fail?
There are some people who can quite reasonably take a shot at it.
It certainly isn't impossible. I just think most people with the mental
capacity to be consistently profitable at poker and play professionally
would be better off putting the same brainpower to better use.
Only a few people are not only capable of being a professional poker
player, but better off doing that than anything else. Many of the rest
are fuckups and gimps barely scraping along.
Gary Carson
Go to groups.google.com and search rec.gambling.poker for my grilled cheese
story.
If you aren't prepared for that then you aren't prepared for professional poker.
I'm not joking.
On Feb 8 2008 6:40 PM, Preston wrote:
> On Feb 8, 6:31=A0pm, "XaQ Morphy" <a1c5...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
> > On Feb 8 2008 5:58 PM, Preston wrote:
> >
> > > I guess I'm torn and looking for advice.
> >
> > Have you investigated housing/renting costs in the area you want to live?
> >
> > Have you investigated health insurance in the area you want to live?
> >
> > Do you have a bankroll of 500 big bets (minimum, I'd say) for the level
> > you want to play?
> >
> around $1000 a month
> health insurance at around $500 a quarter
>
> > Do you have 6 months living expenses based on the costs above saved away?
> >
>
> I have access to $30k or so if it comes to that, but I'm not sure I
> have the psychological fortitude to really go for more if I'm down
> 10-15k or so.
>
> > Have you tried playing poker for 40+ hours a week for at least, oh, 12
> > weeks in a row?
> >
>
> No
> > ---
> > Morphy
> > xaqmor...@donkeymanifesto.com<a href="http://www.donkeymanifesto.com" target="_blank">http://www.donkeymanifesto.com</a>
> >
> > -----=A0
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
Gary Carson
On Feb 8 2008 9:06 PM, Preston wrote:
> On Feb 8, 9:02=A0pm, bigjimmf1 <jimmyhoneyw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Preston wrote:
> > >> Have you considered custody?
> >
> > >> --
> > >> bigjimmf1
> >
> > > My ex and I get along quite well. She has physical custody of her, but
> > > that's largely because I've been in another state. We have joint legal
> > > custody of her and I have unlimited visitation rights. Why do you ask?
> >
> > It doesn't seem like a good idea to move to CA and become a professional
> > poker player because:
> >
> > - you have a family
> > - you sound as if you lack experience
> > - you have a "cush job"
> > - you have money saved
> > - you need to seriously re-think "I find myself questioning why I would
> > work harder and more hours for less money than the $30 an hour I feel I
> > should be able to get at $15-30" gambling
> >
> > Listen to your friends.
> >
> > --
> > bigjimmf1
>
> I don't lack experience. I have logged thousands of hours playing and
> I don't understand why people don't respect that.
Because of the level of uncertianty you expressed in your original post.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
_______________________________________________________________
* New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
Gary Carson
Don't you think that part of the risk of gambling for a living is the women you
meet in poker room?
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
_______________________________________________________________
Your Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
Irish Mike
draw. No paid vacations, holidays or sick time. No stock options, saving
plan, 401K or profit sharing. No medical benefits, insurance or health care
of any kind. And, there will be days when you leave home, put in twelve or
fourteen hours playing poker and come home with less money than you started
with. Some people regurgitate the old "Poker is a hard way to make an easy
living" saw. It's not true. There is nothing easy about it. I've been
asked about playing for a living many times and I always give the same
advice. If you've got a job - keep it. Take full advantage of your
employer's benefits and play poker part time. If you're in school - stay
there, graduate and get your degree. However, in my experience, people who
ask for this kind of advice don't really want it. They've already decided
what they are going to do.
Good luck what ever you decide.
Irish Mike
"Preston" <preston...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b76c9d7d-3448-45d7...@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> I've played poker as a hobby a lot. I keep records and I do win about
> the usual big bet an hour. Right now I have a cush job in Dallas that
> has allowed me to save up quite a bit of money, but my six year old
> daughter is in LA and I need to be closer to her. I've started looking
> for a job out there, but I find myself questioning why I would work
> harder and more hours for less money than the $30 an hour I feel I
> should be able to get at $15-30 at one of the LA casinos.
>
> Now my experience at $15-30 is pretty limited- about 11 hours or so.
> But out of those $20 hours I've won $1800 in some of the loosest and
> most bizarre games I've seen. I know that this is not even close to a
> long term average, but it does reinforce in my mind that the game is
> plenty soft if I chose to make my living that way.
>
> But the other people in my life actively discourage me and I guess I
> don't have the courage to really do it. I feel I need to have a day
> job to go to just so I can say I do something, else I will be labeled
> as a loser.
>
> I guess I'm torn and looking for advice.
>
> Sincerely,
> Preston
>
Irish Mike
"Auburn Sam" <co...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:1202535547$110...@recpoker.com...
That's very good advice bucko. You should take it. I'd also be interested
to learn how you did.
Irish Mike
IdiotSavant
grinding it for a living.
There are a few things to keep in mind.
This is one of the few jobs where many times it lwil cost you money for the
privilege of being at the job.
There are all of kind of personalities at the table, from executives, retirees,
doctors, crooks, dealers, working class guys, college kids, grinders, etc They
all have "their" reasons to be playing and sometimes the negative energy at a
table wears down you psyche. The key is to have the ability to leave that energy
at the table away from your personal life.
Underestimating bankroll requirements in a particular limit can increase stress
levels triggering other risky behaviours; gambling without an edge, alcohol &
drug abuse, sexual additions, etc.
Poker is a zero-sum game that can mess with ones moral compass. Based on your
moral upbringing, playing poker for a living can create serious internal
conflicts that can manifest in other parts of your life away from the table.
Playing close to a "optimal' strategy, it's difficult to maintain over a long
period of time. In reality, after thousands of hours, it can be intellectually
numbing. Boredom creeps in and the "fun" part of the game diminishes.
It is difficult to maintain normal social relationships when doing this for a
living. The hours can be chaotic and play havoc with your social commitments.
One can always find a reason why one can't leave the table to meet a friend, get
home to a significant other, spend time with a child, etc. The temptation is
always there to place family and friends into a second tier position in ones
live.
The one bet for 100 hands 'standard' in a live game setting at this level
translates to roughly 12-15 an hr. Dealers and table circumstances can move the
game anywhere from 30-45 hands per hour. With rake around $120 to 200 per hour;
you are 'real' earning rate is closer to break even at 1 BB/ hour The truth is
that at this level of play, one needs to do 2 BB or better. With the level of
live play currently out there, if you cannot do better than that, you are at
best a break even player. I am sure this paragraph will bring a lot of
controversy within RGP but that's my experience and data in moving up levels.
Here is the one area, where online play has a significant advantage over live
play. Multi tabling at this low middle levels can bring a decent hourly earn
rate.
Anyway, that's my two cents worth and for some reason or another decided to
share it with you and RGP. I played as my sole source of income for 3 plus years
but decided to go back to work last year. I am in my early forties and I am
fortunate enough to have an education and work experience that I could return to
the workplace and make a similar earn rate that I was used to at the poker table
with a lot more of an intellectual challenge. I still play the game seriously
and my "career" moved up from 2/4 limit 7 years ago to 50/100 mixed games when I
get to L.V, A.C, or at the many other casinos in the tournament circuit.
The tone of my advice might not be an upbeat but to play this game successfully,
you need to evaluate your game harshly. If you see it through rosy colored
glasses, it can be a very painful experience. Good luck with your decision.
On Feb 8 2008 6:58 PM, Preston wrote:
> I've played poker as a hobby a lot. I keep records and I do win about
> the usual big bet an hour. Right now I have a cush job in Dallas that
> has allowed me to save up quite a bit of money, but my six year old
> daughter is in LA and I need to be closer to her. I've started looking
> for a job out there, but I find myself questioning why I would work
> harder and more hours for less money than the $30 an hour I feel I
> should be able to get at $15-30 at one of the LA casinos.
>
> Now my experience at $15-30 is pretty limited- about 11 hours or so.
> But out of those $20 hours I've won $1800 in some of the loosest and
> most bizarre games I've seen. I know that this is not even close to a
> long term average, but it does reinforce in my mind that the game is
> plenty soft if I chose to make my living that way.
>
> But the other people in my life actively discourage me and I guess I
> don't have the courage to really do it. I feel I need to have a day
> job to go to just so I can say I do something, else I will be labeled
> as a loser.
>
> I guess I'm torn and looking for advice.
>
> Sincerely,
> Preston
_______________________________________________________________
Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com
Jerry Sturdivant
My neighbor considered playing golf for a living (Senior Tour) and asked
what I thought.
"Go play four rounds, four days in a row. (Like the tour). Don't cheat. Do
it again next week and the week after. You're score will tell you."
Playing poker is different because of the levels. So count your money; play
five days in a row; and count your money. Then do what other professional
do: move up to the next table or down to a cheaper one.
Moving up you'll have better players and you won't do as well. Move down and
you won't make as much. Judge your future. "Will I keep moving up until I
can't make it?" Will I move down and recoup?" "Will I always play scared
money?"
You really need to try it awhile. Don't cheat (yourself).
Jerry 'n Vegas
brewmaster
You got some amazingly good advice from everyone here, some of whom have
been/are "professional" poker players, and none of it was "hating".
Seriously, you wanted to hear everyone say "great idea bud, do it" but you
got actual, real, valuable advice.
What did you ask for if you didn't want real answers? You should post at
alt.toadies instead.
________________________________________________________________________
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
Auburn Sam
On Feb 9 2008 10:24 AM, Irish Mike wrote:
> "Auburn Sam" wrote in message
> > Watch Lists, Block Lists, Favorites - /
Quite well actually. I played successfully for a living from 1968 thru 1989.
Not quite sure why this stuck a nerve with you.
Your bankroll advice is about as close to correct as I've read here. Not many of
us advocate loss limits and win plateaus coupled with blow-back limits. Blowing
off a couple of grand for the experience seems reasonable to me, considering
what he may be risking.
Anything else you would like to know?
Auburn Sam
Irish Mike
was advising the OP to follow your advice, which I thought was very good.
Irish Mike
Auburn Sam
> > New Feature: Mark All As Read! - /
Lol at myself. Another example of the fact that I get easily confused these
days.
I just reread what you wrote and see what you meant, and it's not what I thought
you meant.
Note to self: Read twice, react once.
Auburn Sam
Preston
On the contrary, some of it clearly was hatin; you chose to post
merely to post.
Not that I minded, but it was as strangely negative reaction.
brewmaster
> On the contrary, some of it clearly was hatin; you chose to post
> merely to post.
Quote one of the posts that was "hating".
> Not that I minded, but it was as strangely negative reaction.
Because it is a bad idea.
----
Aftermath Fan
> get back into it with that lack of keeping up with things, and 2) explain
> to possible employers my 2 year absence from the industry without flat out
> saying I was playing poker.
Dude, it's IT...people take breaks all the time. I see resumes with
people who've taken a year off because they always really wanted to
spend a year in a Zen monastery or they had a chance to go on a 6-
month Eco challenge or they thought they wanted to run a dry cleaning
franchise and it was a disaster.
Saying "I took a year off because I thought I wanted to be a poker
pro" is nothing. Sure, your skills will decay a bit, but really, in
TWO years? No, I call nonsense on that. If you are a master of, say,
Oracle 9i you can still easily find work today even though 11g is out
and 9i is being unsupported. If you're a world-class Java programmer,
you will still be a world-class Java programmer in two years. People
are still making money on their COBOL skills. Etcetera...
Why does this have to be an all-or-nothing plunge? I'm sure you have
some vacation time. Take a month off or six weeks (even if a couple
weeks of it are unpaid) and go live like you're a poker pro - play 40
hours a week. See where you are at the end of six weeks.
Aftermath Fan
> I'm not sure what you do for a living, but $30 an hour is just fine
> for me.
It depends where you live more than anything else. $30/hr = $60,000 a
year (30 * 2000 hours). $60K a year will not buy you a house or
anything like a house in any major West Coast city. For that matter,
if you made $120K a year you're probably still looking at a condo.
$500,000 starter houses are not uncommon in LA.
Also, it depends on your tax jurisdiction. In California, you have 9%
income tax + 9% sales tax + 3% of your car's value as a registration
fee every year + high property taxes. That's a whole lot more than
lots of the middle-country states. Also, gas taxes are higher, and in
my experience lots of basic cost of living things are higher in
California. Same in Seattle or Portland for that matter.
And that's $60K alone...add in kids and yes, it is expensive. I could
comfortably live on $60K in many rural areas and cheaper/smaller urban
areas, but you'd be surprised how little $60K is in a big city.
Granted, yes, you could live on that much - grilled cheese sandwiches,
studio apartment, beater car, etc. Depends on your expectations. I'd
be willing to live in poverty to pursue a dream. I would not be
willing to have my children live in poverty for my dream, however.
A Man Beaten by Jacks
wrote:
>On the contrary, some of it clearly was hatin; you chose to post
>merely to post.
>Not that I minded, but it was as strangely negative reaction.
Perhaps you should have included in your original post a request that
only replies like "Wow, that's a great idea, best idea I ever heard"
were welcome.
Preston
> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 20:15:12 -0800 (PST), Preston <prestonpoul...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On the contrary, some of it clearly was hatin; you chose to post
> >merely to post.
> >Not that I minded, but it was as strangely negative reaction.
>
> Perhaps you should have included in your original post a request that
> only replies like "Wow, that's a great idea, best idea I ever heard"
> were welcome.
You misrepresent my position. At no point did I ever say anything of
the kind.
I am mystified by people such as yourself posting negative comments
merely to post
negative comments, but that's the nature of the internet I suppose.
I do want to thank the other people who have replied with informative
suggestions. It has helped me in forming my decisions.
Irish Mike
On Feb 9, 10:59 pm, A Man Beaten by Jacks <nob...@fool.foo> wrote:
> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 20:15:12 -0800 (PST), Preston
> <prestonpoul...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On the contrary, some of it clearly was hatin; you chose to post
> >merely to post.
> >Not that I minded, but it was as strangely negative reaction.
>
> Perhaps you should have included in your original post a request that
> only replies like "Wow, that's a great idea, best idea I ever heard"
> were welcome.
"You misrepresent my position. At no point did I ever say anything of
the kind.
I am mystified by people such as yourself posting negative comments
merely to post
negative comments, but that's the nature of the internet I suppose."
Well bucko, you asked a poker question and I gave you my best advice. So
did other RGPers, who have a lot of poker experience. We were glad to do it
because many of us have faced similar decisions. But now you're bitching
because the advice wasn't what you wanted to hear. So go make your own
decision, assuming you were ever serious about it, and move your ungrateful
ass on down the line.
Irish Mike
Preston
> "Preston" <prestonpoul...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
Actually Irish Mike I was considering messaging you personally to get
some more of your insights into your own poker experiences.
If I did not make my gratitude adequately known to you, I apologize. I
did respond to some posters who seemed, as I mentioned. "strangely
negative" about things and you now the thread has become "Preston is
bitching because he didn't hear what he wanted to." There's no truth
to that, and there never was.
Abbey Johnsson
On Feb 10 2008 9:17 AM, Preston wrote:
> Actually Irish Mike I was considering messaging you personally to get
> some more of your insights into your own poker experiences.
From what i've gathered, Irish Mike is not experienced in playing fulltime
supporting himself as a poker professional. He lives on his "fortune 500"
pension, lives in Ohio, and flies off once a month to some poker destination
for the weekend. And his poker advice is regurgitated common sense (ie;
discipline and money management) that if you dont have by now, you're not ready
to take the plunge. Get your ass to LA or Vegas and mix it up with the real
grinders for a month to see what its like, not some weekend warrior who fancies
himself a poker pro.
_______________________________________________________________
The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
brewmaster
> On Feb 10 2008 9:17 AM, Preston wrote:
>
> > Actually Irish Mike I was considering messaging you personally to get
> > some more of your insights into your own poker experiences.
>
> From what i've gathered, Irish Mike is not experienced in playing fulltime
> supporting himself as a poker professional. He lives on his "fortune 500"
> pension, lives in Ohio, and flies off once a month to some poker destination
> for the weekend. And his poker advice is regurgitated common sense (ie;
> discipline and money management) that if you dont have by now, you're not
ready
> to take the plunge. Get your ass to LA or Vegas and mix it up with the real
> grinders for a month to see what its like, not some weekend warrior who
fancies
> himself a poker pro.
Hey, what about the "read your laminated card while taking a dump"?
Nobody else has mentioned that before, it is unique to IM.
------
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Irish Mike
ability to consistently win money. I've played in more than 130 poker rooms
in nine countries. I'm a consistent winner and I've never gone broke. I
don't apologize for having a successful corporate career or for being a good
money manager. I've played against hundreds of semi-broke "local pros" who
sit on their leather asses in the same poker room, year after year. They
don't have the money to travel or the guts to risk their skinny bankrolls
any where out side their home town. As far as I can tell abbey, you're just
another home town wanna be.
Irish Mike
"Abbey Johnsson" <4308...@recpoker.com> wrote in message
news:1202666274$110...@recpoker.com...
Irish Mike
"brewmaster" <brewm...@brewcam.com> wrote in message
news:jms385x...@recgroups.com...
Well brewster, I'm a consistent winner so I don't much care whether you
approve of the way I play - or not. I'm also smart enough to know that I
haven't yet reached your level of total poker knowledge.
Irish Mike
Abbey Johnsson
On Feb 10 2008 11:55 AM, Irish Mike wrote:
> The only meaningful criteria for being a successful poker player is the
> ability to consistently win money. I've played in more than 130 poker rooms
> in nine countries. I'm a consistent winner and I've never gone broke. I
> don't apologize for having a successful corporate career or for being a good
> money manager. I've played against hundreds of semi-broke "local pros" who
> sit on their leather asses in the same poker room, year after year. They
> don't have the money to travel or the guts to risk their skinny bankrolls
> any where out side their home town. As far as I can tell abbey, you're just
> another home town wanna be.
>
> Irish Mike
Exactly! This guy is looking to become one of those leather asses, sitting in
LA day after day, month after month. Thats not your experience or style so he
shouldn't be looking to you for advice on how to survive as a poker pro. . He
won't have the luxury of a pension to fall back on. (And I'm not knocking your
pension, its well earned, use it).
I wonder how many hours of live poker you really put in per week or month. is
it full time? (Like our friend here wants to attempt). Do you really make
enough playing poker to cover your trip expenses AND provide for your upscale
lifestyle? My guess is that youre a well off person who supplements his income
by playing poker part time.
Btw, why are you so quick to lash out at people? Dont be so sensitive and
there'd be fewer people here picking on you.
I'm not sure what you mean by "wanna be", but playing poker for more than 2
hours a week is something i dont "wanna be".
_______________________________________________________________
New Feature: Mark All As Read! - http://www.recpoker.com
Patti Beadles
Abbey Johnsson <4308...@recpoker.com> wrote:
> It is? The median household income in the US is about 50k/year which is
>$25/hour. I didnt realize what a poor country the US is with the average
>household/personsurviving on"chump change".
The median income in major west-coast cities is higher because
the cost of living is significantly higher.
Bear in mind also that $50K/year usually includes significant
benefits like health insurance (minimum of around $300/month,
more if you're older or have a family), the employer's
contribution to social security (7.5%), paid vacation, and
quite a few other things. I just did some calculations on my
income, and my benefits are worth around $20K/year.
-Patti
--
Patti Beadles, Oakland, CA |
pattib~pattib.org | All religions are equally
http://www.pattib.org/ | ludicrous, and should be ridiculed
http://stopshootingauto.com | as often as possible. C. Bond
Patti Beadles
Preston <preston...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I don't lack experience. I have logged thousands of hours playing and
>I don't understand why people don't respect that. But the feedback I'm
>getting here is all negative. So I suppose that answers my question.
Remember that we're used to seeing people come through here that
have a few hundred hours experience and think that they have
what it takes to play poker professionally. Almost none do.
How's your discipline? Can you force yourself to put in
the hours even after the seventh time this week that some
mouth-breathing neanderthal has cracked top set with two
undercards and a backdoor flush draw? Do you really have the
bankroll to ride out the fluctuations? Do you play well for
many-hour sessions, or does your game deteriorate? Can you
cope mentally with having two losing months in a row?
I'm not a hater-- I'm a realist. And I've played poker
professionally.
If you really want to go to LA, my recommendation is this:
get a job. In addition to the job, commit to spending at
at least 20 hours a week playing 15-30, until you have at
least 500 hours of experience in those games. That will
give you a much better feel for what your win rate is, how
much discipline you have, and what the fluctuations are like.
If you do well, it will also give you a beefier bankroll to
start with if you do decide to go pro.
brewmaster
Geez man, I was joking. I respect your posts a lot.
> >
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Palooka
news:fonnga$tq$1...@blue.rahul.net...
> In article <1202521237$110...@recpoker.com>,
> Abbey Johnsson <4308...@recpoker.com> wrote:
>
>> It is? The median household income in the US is about 50k/year which is
>>$25/hour. I didnt realize what a poor country the US is with the average
>>household/personsurviving on"chump change".
>
> The median income in major west-coast cities is higher because
> the cost of living is significantly higher.
>
> Bear in mind also that $50K/year usually includes significant
> benefits like health insurance (minimum of around $300/month,
> more if you're older or have a family), the employer's
> contribution to social security (7.5%), paid vacation, and
> quite a few other things. I just did some calculations on my
> income, and my benefits are worth around $20K/year.
>
feel like playing poker? Do you take the day off, or force yourself back to
the daily grind?
This is intended as a serious question, not an attack, troll or any such.
Thanks,
Palooka
Irish Mike
The real issue is, how do you define a professional poker player? For some
RGPers, the definition is a person who has no other source of income except
poker. So from their perspective the hours a person spends playing poker
doesn't matter because, if that person has any form of non-poker income, he
can not be a "real" professional poker player.
I don't share their opinion. Many of the biggest name professional poker
players have other non-poker related sources of income like owning
businesses, real estate, investments, etc. Doyle Brunson earns more from
his online poker website, books, investments and endorsements than he does
from playing poker. Does that mean he isn't a "real" professional poker
player? In addition, many professional poker players had other jobs or
careers before they started playing poker - businessmen, teachers, lawyers,
pool hustlers, professional backgammon players, sports handicappers, etc.
If they were smart enough to have saved some money from these previous
professions, does that mean they can't now be professional poker players?
Irish Mike
Clearlight
> based on those who take part in the lifestyle itself?
I've been hanging around card rooms in California and playing for a
lving off and on for almost 35 years and while your intentions may
seem noble, insofar as you want to be closer to your daughter, it
doesn't seem to me that you're really looking at the overall "big
picture".
Let's just say for a minute that you take even some of the free advise
that's been offered up to you in this thread, none of which I would
disagree with, and you actually move to California and find that you
can grind out one big bet per hour from a 15-30 game. Personally I
doubt that you'll be able to but that's beside the point, let's just
say that you can. Than what?
As has been posted already, unless you want to play a minimum of 50-60
hours a week, that's not going to be enough to survive. I don't care
what anyone else tells you, you can not afford any kind of decent life
for yourself and your daughter in southern California on anything less
that $6-7k per month income and that's every f'ing month, month in and
month out.
OK so now let's just say that by some miracle, this actually happens
and you're playing 60 hours a week and making your $30 bucks an hour.
How what? What have you got planned for your off time?
I'll tell you what happens... you start to lose your soul and you
become someone different that who you are right now. Because no matter
how good a poker player you become some day, the fact of that matter
is playing poker is one of the most singularly spiritually and
emotionally unfulfilling things that you can do for a living that I'm
aware of. The only exception to this would be if you were a compulsive
gambler. Than you can just fall back on that old adage of "the only
thing that feels better than winning a thousand is losing a
thousand".
So, now, does this give you some more insight into "the negative
perception based on those who take part in the lifestyle itself?"
Good luck with whatever you should decide.
Irish Mike
"Palooka" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:2IKrj.8250$NL3....@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
If you're smart, you don't play. Playing when you don't feel like it is a
guarantee that you're not going to play your "A" game. And that means
you're probably going to lose your money.
Irish Mike
>
>
Preston
Except that, people are saying that I should be able to get a job that
pays $80 to $100k a year and that, in comparison, poker is pretty
crappy. Well, I know a lot of people in California and I don' t know
many that earn that kind of income. My ex-wife is an attorney and she
makes around $85-90 or so. My girlfriend is a hairdresser and she's
earning probably half that. In comparison to other job offers and the
time involved, $60k seems like a decent living. People argue that it
doesn't compare because other jobs have benefits, but that $60k cash
still beats post-doc income or teaching junior college or a lot of
other things- and that's assuming I am completely honest with the
government about every dollar I won. So I just view the income based
criticism of the move as being really without much merit.
brewmaster
You sound like you want to do it, and you have given it some thought. I
would like to hear how it turns out for you. I live in L.A. (and have my
whole life) and have played the 15/30 and 20/40 quite a bit at Hollywood
Park, Commerce, Hustler (not so much at the Bike because I don't speak
Chinese). I play mostly at Pechanga now, but their 15/30 and 20/40 are
gone because of the NL games. I know most of the people you will be
playing against in those games in L.A., and (although I'm not a great
player) consider those to be tough games.
Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. Post here when you get out
here and start playing and I'll come by your table and say hi.
-------
Preston
I surely will. Although by reading your perceptions of the players
involved it's pretty clear we're talking about different players. It
seems like around midnight in LA casinos the $15-30 games become
collections of live players who seem to act as though money grows on
trees. I'm sure experience changes from one casino to another and a
lot of it depends on time and, as I mentioned, I have limited
experience in $15-30.
Bill Vanek
wrote:
>The real issue is, how do you define a professional poker player? For some
>RGPers, the definition is a person who has no other source of income except
>poker. So from their perspective the hours a person spends playing poker
>doesn't matter because, if that person has any form of non-poker income, he
>can not be a "real" professional poker player.
And you see, this weasely answer is why your idiotic claims to being a
pro are always laughed at. When someone posts a question about
quitting his job and playing professionally, there is only one way to
define it. In this context, a person has to show up and actually put a
lot of hours in at the table. A pro is a person who can actually make
a living when he doesn't have the option of walking away from any
marginally tough game.
I don't even have to ask why you never answer the question about how
many hours you play a year. Most pros, as the term would be understood
here, play more hours in a month than you play in a year, and you know
it. Anyone can be a winning player when you can walk away from any
game that isn't full of fish, or that you can't beat with robotic, by
the book play.
Your "pro player" claims wouldn't be so irritating if you weren't so
smug with your replies - replies that are nearly always based on
ignorance.
Gary Carson
It's more than just a day off. Andy Beyer (my $50,000 year at the races) talked
about the need to every once in a while just walk away from the Racing Form and
take a hot blonde out to a French restuarent.
To that 50k you need to add benefits, and mental health days.
Also continueing education. Poker players who don't engage in CE go that old
loball game in the sky when no limit hold'em becomes the old guy game.
You also need time (and travel expense) to scout new locations from time to
time. If the movie industry dries up (or moves to Austin) maybe it will be nice
if you know about that pot limit game in Wichita. You also need a risk cushion,
to ensure future income you need to be setting aside current income to grow the
bankroll.
Add it all up and you need to follow the rule of thumb that consultant firms,
law firms, etc follow. Multiply that 50k by 3.
By 2 if you're willing to live in your car every once in a while.
50k a year in fulltime poker winnings should easily give you the lifestyle of
someone with a solid job that pays 20k a year plus benefits and includes
continuing education etc.
In LA you can find them at Taco Bell.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
Gary Carson
Actually, I don't think I've ever known a professional poker player who didn't
have some form of alternative income. Or at least they quickly developed one if
they wanted to stay a pro. For some it's a pension, for some a wife with a job,
for some running errands for a drug dealer every once in a while, for me it was
free lance magazine writing, for some it was hooking, for some making book, for
some selling rolex fakes.
The road gambling stories of guys like Brunson or Amarillo Slim or Jack Strauss
are just myth. Those guys were bookies who rode around to poker games as a way
to hustle up business. They later made a lot of money playing poker by hitting
up major marks like Major Riddle and Jimmy Chagra.
The skill you need to develop is the skill to get yourself invited to Larry
Flynt's private games.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
_______________________________________________________________
Gary Carson
On Feb 10 2008 5:18 PM, Preston wrote:
So I just view the income based
> criticism of the move as being really without much merit.
I guess you didn't read the grilled cheese sandwich story.
http://garycarson.netfirms.com/carwreck.php#grilledcheese
There's also a lot of us on here that have lived in their car. Ever done that?
It's about the money. And gambling for a living isn't about income, it's about
hustle. Every day. Hustle for money. Day after day after day.
It's fun. It's like selling used cars except you're selling air.
Gary Carson
On Feb 10 2008 4:39 PM, Clearlight wrote:
> I'll tell you what happens... you start to lose your soul and you
> become someone different that who you are right now. Because no matter
> how good a poker player you become some day, the fact of that matter
> is playing poker is one of the most singularly spiritually and
> emotionally unfulfilling things that you can do for a living that I'm
> aware of. The only exception to this would be if you were a compulsive
> gambler. Than you can just fall back on that old adage of "the only
> thing that feels better than winning a thousand is losing a
> thousand".
One day I was standing in the room in Artichoke Joe's and watched a guy sell a
liquor store located on El Camino Real for $8,000. He needed it to buy back
into a loball game.
I wasn't stunned by what he did. But I was stunned by what my thought were. My
thoughts were about how I should get into that game.
When I realized my life had become about doing whatever I could to destroy the
lives of others I quit playing poker for two years and went and lived on the
beach in Port Aransas, Texas writing erotica.
Actually, I didn't do it right away, I did it about two weeks later, after I got
robbed. That's when I really got disgusted.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
_______________________________________________________________
Watch Lists, Block Lists, Favorites - http://www.recpoker.com
Gary Carson
On Feb 10 2008 6:20 PM, Preston wrote:
> On Feb 10, 6:32=A0pm, "brewmaster" <brewmas...@brewcam.com> wrote:
> > On Feb 10 2008 3:18 PM, Preston wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Feb 10, 4:39 pm, Clearlight <marc.ev...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > I suppose I'm really trying to understand the negative perception
> > > > > based on those who take part in the lifestyle itself?
> >
> > > > I've been hanging around card rooms in California and playing for a
> > > > lving off and on for almost 35 years and while your intentions may
> > > > seem noble, insofar as you want to be closer to your daughter, it
> > > > doesn't seem to me that you're really looking at the overall "big
> > > > picture".
> >
> > > > Let's just say for a minute that you take even some of the free advise=
>
> > > > that's been offered up to you in this thread, none of which I would
> > > > disagree with, and you actually move to California and find that you
> > > > can grind out one big bet per hour from a 15-30 game. Personally I
> > > > doubt that you'll be able to but that's beside the point, let's just
> > > > say that you can. Than what?
> >
> > > > As has been posted already, unless you want to play a minimum of 50-60=
>
> > > > hours a week, that's not going to be enough to survive. I don't care
> > > > what anyone else tells you, you can not afford any kind of decent life=
>
> > > > for yourself and your daughter in southern California on anything less=
>
> > > > that $6-7k per month income and that's every f'ing month, month in and=
>
> > > > month out.
> >
> > > > OK so now let's just say that by some miracle, this actually happens
> > > > and you're playing 60 hours a week and making your $30 bucks an hour.
> > > > How what? What have you got planned for your off time?
> >
> > > > I'll tell you what happens... you start to lose your soul and you
> > > > become someone different that who you are right now. Because no matter=
>
> > > > how good a poker player you become some day, the fact of that matter
> > > > is playing poker is one of the most singularly spiritually and
> > > > emotionally unfulfilling things that you can do for a living that I'm
> > > > aware of. The only exception to this would be if you were a compulsive=
>
> > > > gambler. Than you can just fall back on that old adage of "the only
> > > > thing that feels better than winning a thousand is losing a
> > > > thousand".
> >
> > > > So, now, does this give you some more insight into "the negative
> > > > perception based on those who take part in the lifestyle itself?"
> >
> > > > Good luck with whatever you should decide.
> >
> > > Except that, people are saying that I should be able to get a job that
> > > pays $80 to $100k a year and that, in comparison, poker is pretty
> > > crappy. Well, I know a lot of people in California and I don' t know
> > > many that earn that kind of income. My ex-wife is an attorney and she
> > > makes around $85-90 or so. My girlfriend is a hairdresser and she's
> > > earning probably half that. In comparison to other job offers and the
> > > time involved, $60k seems like a decent living. People argue that it
> > > doesn't compare because other jobs have benefits, but that $60k cash
> > > still beats post-doc income or teaching junior college or a lot of
> > > other things- and that's assuming I am completely honest with the
> > > government about every dollar I won. So I just view the income based
> > > criticism of the move as being really without much merit.
> >
> > You sound like you want to do it, and you have given it some thought. =A0I=
>
> > would like to hear how it turns out for you. =A0I live in L.A. (and have m=
> y
> > whole life) and have played the 15/30 and 20/40 quite a bit at Hollywood
> > Park, Commerce, Hustler (not so much at the Bike because I don't speak
> > Chinese). =A0I play mostly at Pechanga now, but their 15/30 and 20/40 are
> > gone because of the NL games. =A0I know most of the people you will be
> > playing against in those games in L.A., and (although I'm not a great
> > player) consider those to be tough games.
> >
> > Good luck, and let us know how it turns out. =A0Post here when you get out=
>
> > here and start playing and I'll come by your table and say hi.
> >
> > -------=A0
> I surely will. Although by reading your perceptions of the players
> involved it's pretty clear we're talking about different players. It
> seems like around midnight in LA casinos the $15-30 games become
> collections of live players who seem to act as though money grows on
> trees. I'm sure experience changes from one casino to another and a
> lot of it depends on time and, as I mentioned, I have limited
> experience in $15-30.
If you play between midnight to 3am on Friday nights you'll have a pretty good
hourly rate if you're decent at all.
Of course the limit games have been drying for about the last 3 years and will
probably continue to dry up for the next 3 years. But you don't to worry about
that.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
_______________________________________________________________
Your Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
Bill Vanek
<garyc...@alumni.northwestern.edu> wrote:
>Actually, I don't think I've ever known a professional poker player who didn't
>have some form of alternative income.
They exist.
> Or at least they quickly developed one if
>they wanted to stay a pro. For some it's a pension, for some a wife with a job,
>for some running errands for a drug dealer every once in a while, for me it was
>free lance magazine writing, for some it was hooking, for some making book, for
>some selling rolex fakes.
This is a pretty complex issue. I don't know how many pros really want
to play poker for a living. It's a source of income without a regular
job. It's just what they do, but if they could do something else,
make the same money, and keep the same schedule, a lot of them would
quickly walk away from poker. I'm sure every one of them has some
other skills, and if something comes along where they can pick up some
extra cash, again, without an actual job, they'll do it. The relevant
questions are: is the poker money or the other money the "alternative
income", and could they survive without the non-poker income? I know
players in LV who do fine on poker alone. Don't forget too that there
are good players who also cheat. That little extra edge can sustain
the "pro player" status for a long time.
A Man Beaten by Jacks
wrote:
>On Feb 9, 10:59 pm, A Man Beaten by Jacks <nob...@fool.foo> wrote:
>> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 20:15:12 -0800 (PST), Preston <prestonpoul...@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >On the contrary, some of it clearly was hatin; you chose to post
>> >merely to post.
>> >Not that I minded, but it was as strangely negative reaction.
>> Perhaps you should have included in your original post a request that
>> only replies like "Wow, that's a great idea, best idea I ever heard"
>> were welcome.
>You misrepresent my position. At no point did I ever say anything of
>the kind.
>I am mystified by people such as yourself posting negative comments
>merely to post
>negative comments, but that's the nature of the internet I suppose.
I did no such thing. Pardon me for attempting to answer your fucking
question.
Asshole.
Howard Beale
> Now my experience at $15-30 is pretty limited- about 11 hours or so.
'nuff said. Don't even think about it.
Howard Beale
____________________________________________________________________
Gary Carson
I'll never forget the Las Vegas cocktail waitress whose boyfriend was a full
time blackjack pro who was trying to sell a side of beef he had laying in the
back of his pickup out in the parking lot.
Las Vegas.
August.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
_______________________________________________________________
Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com
Bill Vanek
<garyc...@alumni.northwestern.edu> wrote:
>I'll never forget the Las Vegas cocktail waitress whose boyfriend was a full
>time blackjack pro who was trying to sell a side of beef he had laying in the
>back of his pickup out in the parking lot.
>
>Las Vegas.
>
>August.
Sounds like a pre-cooked side of beef. Just reheat.
Lynx
> feel like playing poker? Do you take the day off, or force yourself back to
> the daily grind?
I take the day off.
----
Preston
> On Sat, 9 Feb 2008 22:03:54 -0800 (PST), Preston <prestonpoul...@hotmail.com>
But that's just it. You DID NOT answer my question. Asshole.
Patti Beadles
Palooka <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>PMFJI, but my question is this: Suppose you get up one day, and just don't
>feel like playing poker? Do you take the day off, or force yourself back to
>the daily grind?
If it happens occasionally you take the day off. If it happens
often, you question your career choice.
Irish Mike
smug with your replies - replies that are nearly always based on ignorance"
Well bucko, your definition of ignorance is any one who disagrees with you.
But I'll tell you what. I'll accept the fact that you think I'm smug and
you accept the fact that I don't give a shit what you think. To me, you're
just another version of Russ G.
Irish Mike
"Bill Vanek" <bilv...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:aacvq3djuu9dfgub7...@4ax.com...
Irish Mike
<garyc...@alumni.northwestern.edu> wrote:
>Actually, I don't think I've ever known a professional poker player who
>didn't
>have some form of alternative income.
Or at least they quickly developed one if
>they wanted to stay a pro. For some it's a pension, for some a wife with a
>job, for some running errands for a drug dealer every once in a while, for
>me it was free lance magazine writing, for some it was hooking, for some
>making book, for >some selling rolex fakes."
Jesus wept! I am seeing RGP history being made. I actually agree with
everything Gary Carson said in the above referenced quote! Please excuse me
now, I have to go throw-up.
Irish Mike
A Man Beaten by Jacks
wrote:
*plonk mental retard*
CHarrison100
On Feb 8 2008 8:52 PM, Preston wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what you do for a living, but $30 an hour is just fine
> for me.
> And, in response to the other poster, I have thousands of hours of
> live poker experience, just not much at $15-30.
> As far as I can tell, the only difference is the color of the chips.
The $30 an hour may be fine for you where you are but reread the questions asked
by Morphy about where you are going. Patti has good points about benifits.
Have you taken your Daughter's health care and payments into the equasion?
If you haven;t played the level you want to go pro at for an extended period
then i would suggest you not go pro at that level.
Why not try out a vacation? take a month off while between jobs as you are
relocating, set out the bankrool you need and play at the level you determine
you need to beat to live. If it works out great if not no major time lost and
get a job.
Chris
----------------------
No point in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway. - 6ballman - Feb 2007
Preston
> "On Mon, 11 Feb 08 2:48:50 GMT, Gary Carson
>
People seem to have read a lot into my post and questions that wasn't
actually there.
My daughter is well cared for. My ex-wife is an attorney and provides
well for my daughter. I do have to make the monthly
child support payment, and that's a big part of the monthly cost, but
Avery will be cared for.
In terms of finding employment, poker is just an option I'm toying
with. Realistically it's one of four different career paths:
1. Poker
2. Go to graduate school and become a professor
3. Become a stock trader (I've been offered a position)
4. Become a stock broker (I've been told I can start whenever I decide
I want to)
Becoming a professor is probably most suitable to my personality, but
the pay for grad students and post grad students is just so poor. I
was ironic given that most people were criticizing the $65K a year
given that they figure anyone could make $120K at a real job. Most
professors make less than $50K a year. It's only after long hours and
tenure that you get more, and that's a decade down the line.
As for being a stock broker, the pay is pretty good if I really
dedicate myself to it. But it seems like a job I might burn out on and
I'm trying to be sensitive to that. It's also a job that demands a lot
of time, so it would prevent me from doing much supplemental income
such as poker.
As for stock trader, it seems more or less just like poker. There are
firms that bring you on board after you put up some of your own money
and teach you their trading platforms and techniques in the hopes that
you'll become a big player with them after a few months. It's sink or
swing and there are a lot of analogies to poker, except that the
trading community seems the opposite of the poker community in that
poker seems strangely negative about the idea that anyone could really
make it while the trading community seems overly positive about the
idea that anyone can make it.
Anyway, I was just trying to figure out how realistic the poker piece
was. As it is, I'm going to give stock trading 6 months and see if it
works. if not, then it's either back to school or to being a broker.
But I have been told by the company that wants me to trade from them
that novice traders don't make much money in the first few months, so
I was looking to supplement my income with some $15-30. A grand or two
a month, which should be easily doable if the 1 BB an hour is at all
valid, would go a long way towards tiding over either my school career
or my trading career.
I appreciate the feedback i've gotten.
Cheers,
Preston.
PS. Man Beaten by Jacks can go F himself.
WuzYoungOnceToo
>
> You misrepresent my position. At no point did I ever say anything of
> the kind. I am mystified by people such as yourself posting negative comments
> merely to post negative comments, but that's the nature of the internet I
suppose.
Your slip is showing, Nancy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Be polite. Be professional. But...have a plan to kill everyone you meet."
------
: the next generation of web-newsreaders : http://www.recgroups.com
croupe
around a little while and may know a game or two which may have skewed
your results (but finding the good games is the biggest skill a poker
player can have).
In addition, I would ask what your hobbies are? If your only hobby is
playing poker, then I would ask what you would do for fun if poker
became your job? Just things to think about.
For the most part, it's much more tolerable for most people to work a
day job that has some sort of meaning (although that can be argued for
a lot of jobs) and play poker for fun. Some people like the freedom
of scheduling their own time, but the good games tend to write your
schedule for you.
Croupe
> experience in $15-30.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Irish Mike
Hey bucko, you can't just jump to the front of the line! There are a lot of
us on RGP who want to tell Jacks to go fuck himself. So wait your turn.
Irish Mike
"Preston" <preston...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0411bdb1-bfb2-4f0f...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Gary Carson
On Feb 13 2008 12:40 PM, Signal wrote:
> >As for stock trader, it seems more or less just like poker. There are
> >firms that bring you on board after you put up some of your own money
> >and teach you their trading platforms and techniques in the hopes that
> >you'll become a big player with them after a few months. It's sink or
> >swing and there are a lot of analogies to poker, except that the
> >trading community seems the opposite of the poker community in that
> >poker seems strangely negative about the idea that anyone could really
> >make it while the trading community seems overly positive about the
> >idea that anyone can make it.
> >
> >Anyway, I was just trying to figure out how realistic the poker piece
> >was. As it is, I'm going to give stock trading 6 months and see if it
> >works. if not, then it's either back to school or to being a broker.
> >But I have been told by the company that wants me to trade from them
> >that novice traders don't make much money in the first few months, so
> >I was looking to supplement my income with some $15-30. A grand or two
> >a month, which should be easily doable if the 1 BB an hour is at all
> >valid, would go a long way towards tiding over either my school career
> >or my trading career.
> >
>
> You've changed your tune a bit. Now you are saying you were looking to
> top up your income with poker? Not the impression I got. Anyway,
> sounds like you've arrived at a sensible decision.
Signing up for some day-trading scam is a sensible decision?
They guy doesn't even know what a stock trader is and he thinks that the company
that will get a commission from every trade he makes with no risk is only
encouraging him because they're nice guys who support his efforts to make a
living without having to work.
He's an idiot. He wouldn't last a week fulltime in a poker room.
Gary Carson
http://www.garycarson.com
Preston
> "PS. Man Beaten by Jacks can go F himself."
>
> Hey bucko, you can't just jump to the front of the line! There are a lot of
> us on RGP who want to tell Jacks to go fuck himself. So wait your turn.
>
I've played 26 hours this week and won a total of $2092. Thanks for
the Grilled cheese advice Mr. Carson. I'm sure it will never come in
handy.
da pickle
> I appreciate the feedback i've gotten.
>
> Cheers,
> Preston.
>
> PS. Man Beaten by Jacks can go F himself.
==========================
I've played 26 hours this week and won a total of $2092. Thanks for
the Grilled cheese advice Mr. Carson. I'm sure it will never come in
handy.
==========================
Well, that settles it. You have definitely made it. Good luck.
Omaholic
> the Grilled cheese advice Mr. Carson. I'm sure it will never come in
> handy.
Wait a minute...this changes everything!
Will in New Haven
wrote:
> On Feb 10 2008 5:18 PM, Preston wrote:
>
>
> > criticism of the move as being really without much merit.
>
>
> http://garycarson.netfirms.com/carwreck.php#grilledcheese
>
> There's also a lot of us on here that have lived in their car. Ever done that?
>
> It's about the money. And gambling for a living isn't about income, it's about
> hustle. Every day. Hustle for money. Day after day after day.
>
> It's fun. It's like selling used cars except you're selling air.
The only time in my life that I didn't enjoy playing bridge is when I
played bridge for a living for awhile in New York. Part of that was
the fact that I had to play one set out of four with the biggest idiot
at the table, part of it was that the other two guys were idiots also.
Part of it was that my income never made it really worthwhile to
commute from New Haven or live in Manhatten. But mostly it was because
the game became a job.
The only time in my life that I didn't enjoy playing poker was when I
was playing _lots_ of poker and putting the money together for my
share of the condo. It was worth it, it's a nice place to live. But it
made poker distasteful to me and that lasted for months afterward. I
like the game again. I play one or two days most weeks.
Will in New Haven
--
CHarrison100
On Mar 10 2008 7:34 AM, Preston wrote:
> On Feb 12, 4:27=A0pm, "Irish Mike" wrote:
> > "PS. Man Beaten by Jacks can go F himself."
> >
> > Hey bucko, you can't just jump to the front of the line! =A0There are a lo=
> t of
> > us on RGP who want to tell Jacks to go fuck himself. =A0So wait your turn.=
>
> >
> > Irish Mike"Preston" wrote in message
> >
> > news:0411bdb1-bfb2-4f0f...@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> > On Feb 11, 4:13 am, "Irish Mike" wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > "On Mon, 11 Feb 08 2:48:50 GMT, Gary Carson
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >Actually, I don't think I've ever known a professional poker player who=
>
> > > >didn't
> > > >have some form of alternative income.
> >
> > > Or at least they quickly developed one if
> >
> > > >they wanted to stay a pro. For some it's a pension, for some a wife wit=
> h
> > > >a
> > > >job, for some running errands for a drug dealer every once in a while,
> > > >for
> > > >me it was free lance magazine writing, for some it was hooking, for som=
> e
> > > >making book, for >some selling rolex fakes."
> >
> > > Jesus wept! I am seeing RGP history being made. I actually agree with
> > > everything Gary Carson said in the above referenced quote! Please excuse=
Keep this post for when you have played 30 hours in a week for a -$2500 profit.
Swings happen.
Chris
----------------------
No point in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway. - 6ballman - Feb 2007
_______________________________________________________________
John_Brian_K
> played bridge for a living for awhile in New York. Part of that was
> the fact that I had to play one set out of four with the biggest idiot
> at the table, part of it was that the other two guys were idiots also.
> Part of it was that my income never made it really worthwhile to
> commute from New Haven or live in Manhatten. But mostly it was because
> the game became a job.
>
> The only time in my life that I didn't enjoy playing poker was when I
> was playing _lots_ of poker and putting the money together for my
> share of the condo. It was worth it, it's a nice place to live. But it
> made poker distasteful to me and that lasted for months afterward. I
> like the game again. I play one or two days most weeks.
>
> Will in New Haven
Will,
I know you think I am an idiot, but I agree with almost all of your
posts. Except for the ones where you call me an idiot.
John_Brian_K
>
> Swings happen.
>
> Chris
> ----------------------
> No point in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway. - 6ballman - Feb 2007
Chris,
I bought the hot sauce! Now I just have to take my lazy ass to the
post office!
CHarrison100
Perfect. I can't wait. I am running a 30km (18.6 miles) race at the end of the
month. If it makes it here in time i am going to make a batch of wings using it
as my reward.
Chris
----------------------
No point in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway. - 6ballman - Feb 2007
_______________________________________________________________
Will in New Haven
wrote:
You don't know that I think you are an idiot. All you know is that I
_say_ that I think you are an idiot.
Only an idiot would believe me.
Irish Mike
Quit you job and start playing poker every day. It won't take long for you
to learn if it was a good move.
Irish Mike
"Will in New Haven" <bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote in message
news:1c1c75ad-36b3-433d...@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
CHarrison100
On Mar 12 2008 7:36 PM, Irish Mike wrote:
> You want to be a professional poker player? Easiest thing in the world.
> Quit you job and start playing poker every day. It won't take long for you
> to learn if it was a good move.
>
> Irish Mike
>
>
This is the only way to know if you have what it takes in any job.
Poker as a hobby for 40 hours a week still doesn't add the presure you will have
if that regular paycheck is not there to cover the bills.
2 things keep me from going pro
1) Skill.
2) Assurance I will get the $ per month required to maintain my lifestyle.
Chris
----------------------
No point in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway. - 6ballman - Feb 2007
_______________________________________________________________
* New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
Irish Mike
"CHarrison100" <4308...@recpoker.com> wrote in message
news:1205428653$111...@recpoker.com...
>
>
>
> On Mar 12 2008 7:36 PM, Irish Mike wrote:
>
>> You want to be a professional poker player? Easiest thing in the world.
>> Quit you job and start playing poker every day. It won't take long for
>> you
>> to learn if it was a good move.
>>
>> Irish Mike
>>
>>
>
> This is the only way to know if you have what it takes in any job.
>
> Poker as a hobby for 40 hours a week still doesn't add the presure you
> will have
> if that regular paycheck is not there to cover the bills.
>
> 2 things keep me from going pro
>
> 1) Skill.
> 2) Assurance I will get the $ per month required to maintain my lifestyle.
>
> Chris
> ----------------------
> No point in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway. - 6ballman - Feb
> 2007
>
Well if you don't have the skill and you are afraid of risk, professional
poker may not be the ideal profession for you. I have never agreed with the
old saying that "poker is a hard way to meak an easy living". There 's
nothing easy about it. Playing poker professionally is a job with no
salary, no draw and no commission. There is no paid vacation, sick days or
holidays. There are no medical, dental, vision, life insurance or health
care health care benefits of any kind. There is no pension, 401K, stock
options, profit sharing, expense account or savings plan benefits. And,
there will be days when you leave home, put in a twelve or fourteen hour
day, and come home with less money than you started with.
BTW, what do you call a professional poker player who's girl friend lost her
job? Homeless.
Irish Mike
XaQ Morphy
> 2 things keep me from going pro
>
> 1) Skill.
> 2) Assurance I will get the $ per month required to maintain my lifestyle.
I'll add mine:
3) complete hatred for the game of poker
---
Morphy
xaqm...@donkeymanifesto.com
http://www.donkeymanifesto.com
_____________________________________________________________________
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com
Preston
> On Mar 13 2008 12:17 PM, CHarrison100 wrote:
>
> > 2 things keep me from going pro
>
> > 1) Skill.
> > 2) Assurance I will get the $ per month required to maintain my lifestyle.
>
> I'll add mine:
>
> 3) complete hatred for the game of poker
>
> ---
> Morphy
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader :www.recgroups.com
I haven't been able to play much in the last couple of weeks. I still
maintained some work while I'm trying this poker thing out. That and
my daughter is going to be on spring break all of next week and I'm
going to take her to Disneyland.
I have been able to play an additional 11.5 hours over the past couple
of day and won an additional $1472 over that time frame. I am aware
that I have been running well, but I am also aware that I am not just
beating this game- I'm smashing it to little pieces. Will swings
happen, of course they will. In some ways I find the most difficult
task at the poker table is to resist the urge to just take a small
profit early and run. I have to mentally go through the exercise of
being prepared to lose it all in order to keep me from becoming tight
and timid.
The long posted general rule is that a pro player will need a bankroll
of 300 big bets. I'm not saying I believe that, but I will say that if
I win 300 big bets then no one should be able to say that I suck at
this game and just getting lucky. At that level of winning, I think
statistics says it's not luck.
So far in the month of March i've logged 37 hours and won $3527.
That's over 100 big bets. My goal is to make it to 300 big bets won
and then I feel I can have confidence in what I do and move up to a
bigger game.. I'll post my progress here periodically.
bigjimmf1
> statistics says it's not luck.
Muther Fucker,
I can't believe you can spell statistics. I'm glad you're doing well,
enjoy it while last. Please just shut the fuck up and die not to smell
badly.
--
bigjimmf1