Dallas Poker Club Busted
Juke
officers, a Dallas-area poker club was busted yesterday by DPS officers
and tactical assault squad.
At around two in the afternoon they came to the door and presented a
search warrant. Brandishing their firearms, they then proceeded to issue
citations to every player present. These fine officers then isolated one
of the young hostesses and began grilling her with questions about club
operations, including the structure of the rake, using intimidation to
retrieve what answers they could from her despite the fact that no lawyers
were present.
The owner and several dealers were arrested and will likely be charged
with class-A misdemeanors according to the Texas Penal Code. The penalty
for a conviction is a $4,000 fine and/or up to 1 year in jail.
Let's all take a moment to stop and thank the brave officers involved in
this operation, who risked life and limb to shut down a major poker club
in this city plagued by robbery and murder; this city where hard drugs are
available on every street corner, and prostitutes in every massage parlor.
Hopefully former poker players will be content doing their gambling
legally via the Texas Lottery, which only charges a reasonable 30% to 40%
vig on every ticket purchased, and which doesn't require citizens (who, as
every government official knows, are stupid) to exercise any skill or
discernment in their choice of bet.
Once more, congratulations to our fine men and women of law enforcement,
for making our city much safer for the children. Please enjoy an extra
doughnut or two with my hard-earned tax dollars. You deserve it.
_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
J
ridiculous it is that you can't play Texas Hold 'em in Texas.
Pete
> this operation, who risked life and limb to shut down a major poker club
> in this city plagued by robbery and murder; this city where hard drugs are
> available on every street corner, and prostitutes in every massage parlor.
I find this interesting that you distinguish poker from drugs and
prostitution, seems somewhat hypocritical to me. Fundamentally the reason
gambling should not be treated as criminal is the very same reason that
drugs and prostitution should be legal . . . . They are all consensual acts
without any victim.
I do not understand how anyone can complain that gambling should be legal
but complain that drugs and prostitution should not be
Juke
I make no such complaint. I believe all such activities should be legal
within certain limits. I mentioned it here only to highlight how
ridiculous it is to waste resources busting a poker club in a city which
has much biger fish to fry (according to the current penal code),
including murder, robbery, prostitution, and drugs; not to mention the
fact that the players from this club will simply go to any one of the
other twenty clubs in Dallas, or else devote their money to the online
game, removing it from the Texas economy altogether.
bomb
> prostitution, seems somewhat hypocritical to me. Fundamentally the reason
> gambling should not be treated as criminal is the very same reason that
> drugs and prostitution should be legal . . . . They are all consensual
acts
> without any victim.
>
> I do not understand how anyone can complain that gambling should be legal
> but complain that drugs and prostitution should not be
There are countless cases of abuse in forcing someone to participate in drug
dealing or prostituiton, I know of no situation where someone was in danger
of their life in being forced to deal a hand of poker, if you seriuosly
think prostituion and drug dealing are consensual victimless crimes get a
clue.
bomb
Pete
drug dealing or prostituiton,
Countless?
Name three cases of an adult being forced to use drugs (not including the
legal forced medication cases). Even if you wanted to count the alleged use
of "date rape drugs" (which is really outside of the model we are talking
about -- As may reference was to recreational drugs) those claims appear to
be far more anecdotal and most appear suspect.
As for prostitution. while there may be cases where a person is forced into
prostitution that is almost always an issue caused by the illegality of
prostitution to begin with. Have you ever heard of a case of a person being
forced into prostitution in a legal brothel in Nevada? Its precisely
because prostitution in most places takes place where there is no legal
recourse for people that you associate it with crime, just as many who do
not like gambling associate it with crime . . . And many of them would be
referring to stories of people being cheated or beaten or killed over a
gambling debt the same way you refere to the countless incidents of people
being forced against their wll to take drugs and engage in prostitution.
"bomb" <bomb@fragism*SPAM*.com> wrote in message
news:408bc0e0$0$31682$fa0f...@lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
CBedo
the fines and keep running the club, assuring patrons that in the unlikely
event of a police bust, the club will pay their citations?
Pete
the game, and also multiple offenses may lead to larger penalties, -- also
wasn't there a mention of 1 year in jail?
"CBedo" <anon...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6APic.14010333$Of.23...@news.easynews.com...
pmcguire
> Presumably there may also be forfeitures of the money and equipment found in
> the game, and also multiple offenses may lead to larger penalties, -- also
> wasn't there a mention of 1 year in jail?
> "CBedo" <anon...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:6APic.14010333$Of.23...@news.easynews.com...
> > Given the penal structure mentioned, wouldn't a poker club owner just pay
> > the fines and keep running the club, assuring patrons that in the unlikely
> > event of a police bust, the club will pay their citations?
> >
Anyone know which club it was?
Helles
> In yet another display of the caliber of our city's fine law-enforcement
> officers, a Dallas-area poker club was busted yesterday by DPS officers
> and tactical assault squad.
I have read through your post and it sounds like they did do a good job.
>
> At around two in the afternoon they came to the door and presented a
> search warrant. Brandishing their firearms, they then proceeded to issue
> citations to every player present. These fine officers then isolated one
> of the young hostesses and began grilling her with questions about club
> operations, including the structure of the rake, using intimidation to
> retrieve what answers they could from her despite the fact that no lawyers
> were present.
Let's see. Presented a search warrant, issued summonses to the
lawbreakers, questioned an employee of the club. Why must a lawyer be
present for the cops to interview this hostess? The answer is, one
doesn't need to be present. They don't even have to Mirandize her if
she's not under arrest.
>
> The owner and several dealers were arrested and will likely be charged
> with class-A misdemeanors according to the Texas Penal Code. The penalty
> for a conviction is a $4,000 fine and/or up to 1 year in jail.
Probably.
>
> Let's all take a moment to stop and thank the brave officers involved in
> this operation, who risked life and limb to shut down a major poker club
> in this city plagued by robbery and murder; this city where hard drugs are
> available on every street corner, and prostitutes in every massage parlor.
Thank you Dallas PD FOR DOING YOUR JOB. You're probably the kinda guy
that asks the cop why he's not out arresting crack dealers or murderers
while he's writing your speeding ticket. The fact is, many more resources
ARE dedicated to other kinds of vice and violent crime than to shutting
down illegal poker clubs. How many times has this happened in Dallas?
Even if it happens once a month, does that compare in any way with the
number of drug, prostitution, robbery or homicide arrests made every
month? Of course not.
>
> Hopefully former poker players will be content doing their gambling
> legally via the Texas Lottery, which only charges a reasonable 30% to 40%
> vig on every ticket purchased, and which doesn't require citizens (who, as
> every government official knows, are stupid) to exercise any skill or
> discernment in their choice of bet.
If the poker player is a degenerate gambler, he probably already plays the
lottery. Winning players will find a legal game.
>
> Once more, congratulations to our fine men and women of law enforcement,
> for making our city much safer for the children. Please enjoy an extra
> doughnut or two with my hard-earned tax dollars. You deserve it.
You forgot to mention senior citizens. Cops have to buy doughnuts with
their own money. No tax fund labeled "Doughnuts". They do deserve it.
ACTexas97
is that you can't play Texas Hold 'em in Texas."
You can play it as private games are legal in Texas (regardless of limits)
provided the house doesn't profit. Such profit could include rakes, time
charges, admission fees or selling food or beverages. Trust me, there are
numerous fully legal private games around Dallas (some of which include law
enforcement as regular players).
Alan in Franklin, TN (previously from Plano, TX)
ContactGSW
> In yet another display of the caliber of our city's fine law-enforcement
> officers, a Dallas-area poker club was busted yesterday by DPS officers
> and tactical assault squad.
So much is unknown here. Is there a proscribed policy by Dallas law
enforcement? Do the owners of another game have someone's ear someplace?
Did a poor loser make waves? Did a big losers wife make waves. Were
indeed drugs or prostitution somehow involved? Tell me about the Dallas
poker games, I'd really like to know. I'm not saying that some sort of
over reaction hasn't occured here on law enforcements part, I just believe
that, as in most cases, only the tip of a complex iceberg has been posted.
ContactGSW
YoungJedi
them,
On Apr 25 2004 8:23AM, Juke wrote:
Vodkaputtputt
>>>>>Are you able to say which one (general location)? I play at a number of
them,>>>>>
The only one the cops don't play at.
Mark
Gary Carson
>doesn't need to be present. They don't even have to Mirandize her if
>she's not under arrest.
They do is she's in custody or if a reasonable person would think she's not
free to leave. That is if they expect to use any informtation she provides
against her. They are free to use any information she provides against another
party no matter if she's under arrest or not, no matter whether if she asks for
an attorney or not.
--
Gary Carson
You can buy an ebook manuscript copy of
The Complete Book of Hold'em Poker for $4.50 at
http://garycarson.com
LuvinTheGrape
under the deluded impression that police officers set department policy
concerning law enforcement priorities and procedures? Or do you think a
group of them just spontaneously get together and decide to launch a raid of
this type without direction from their superiors? These guys follow orders,
you know? I'd bet dollars to those doughnuts you referenced that you don't
have the balls to do what they do.
"Juke" <anon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1ZOic.14008083$Of.23...@news.easynews.com...
chrunch44
Because not everyone is bound by your particular view of what constitutes reality.
C.
Wade C
dues and sell food and various beverages.
"ACTexas97" <acte...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040425115958...@mb-m03.aol.com...
James L. Hankins
"Gary Carson" <garyc...@wmconnect.comtrash> wrote in message
news:20040425135846...@mb-m18.wmconnect.com...
> They do is she's in custody or if a reasonable person would think she's
not
> free to leave. That is if they expect to use any informtation she
provides
> against her.
True.
>They are free to use any information she provides against another
> party no matter if she's under arrest or not, no matter whether if she
asks for
> an attorney or not.
This is mostly true but legally unclear in some cases.
Luv2skibad
>In yet another display of the caliber of our city's fine law-enforcement
>officers, a Dallas-area poker club was busted yesterday by DPS officers
>and tactical assault squad.
Some poor soul lost the mortgage payment and his wife ratted him out. The cops
raid the joint because they know they are not going to get shot at, and the
whole thing is going to look really good on the ten o'clock news. The police
spent zero dollars finding the illegal gambling joint, while they have to
spend countless dollars and risk officer's lives fighting drugs and
prostitution.
Chuck Humphrey
wrote:
not to mention the
>fact that the players from this club will simply go to any one of the
>other twenty clubs in Dallas, or else devote their money to the online
>game, removing it from the Texas economy altogether.
Without knowing, one can only assume that the "club" that got busted
was the one that was stupid and arrogant enough to advertise their
"tournaments" right here on RGP.
Chuck Humphrey
Chuck Humphrey
wrote:
>The State Police leave Country Club games alone even though CCs do charge
>dues and sell food and various beverages.
Such games are usually legal, at least in TX and states with similar
laws that allow un-raked games for affinity groups. They are not
"sposored" by the club. Rather, the members decide to independently
and joinlty play a game in which there is no rake and no house
benefit. A "for profit" bar or restaurant can't make the same claim
because they are not a social "club" in the same sense as the country
clubs.
Chuck Humphrey
Eric Rosenberg
The law is the law and if you break it, expect a policeman to come
knocking. If you want things to change, then lobby your lawmakers, but
do not blame the police for arresting people that are breaking the law.
* New Poker Magazine:
http://www.liveactionpoker.com/magazine/magazine.html
** $30 Free Poker Bankroll at http://www.liveactionpoker.com/free30
PokerEnvy
"LuvinTheGrape" <dan.p...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:2zTic.73914$L31....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
snip
Or do you think a
> group of them just spontaneously get together and decide to launch a raid
of
> this type without direction from their superiors?
Of course.... don't you ever watch "The Shield"?
Actually what happened is that they made the ever popular mistake of
cooperating with the local News 4 exposé team last month on the growing
popularity of 'illegal poker clubs' in Big D. Brought a bit too much
attention to the aforementioned 'club' and bingo..... now they're famous.
gotta love it :-)
Juke
which club it was or regarding the state of poker in Dallas. I can't
answer those questions in this forum but if you are really curious, ask
around the next time you play a live game here in Big D. The word is
definitely out.
On Apr 25 2004 8:23AM, Juke wrote:
WuzYoungOnceToo
> Thanks for all your comments. A couple of you had questions regarding
> which club it was or regarding the state of poker in Dallas. I can't
> answer those questions in this forum but if you are really curious, ask
> around the next time you play a live game here in Big D. The word is
> definitely out.
How very cloak-and-dagger of you. Such information would be a matter of
public record, so what in the world would prevent you from repeating it
here?
TexMos
last Saturday. They came in due to the fact that an ex-partner got pissed
off and brought them in with hidden cameras the Wednesday before and let
them know Saturday would be the 'big' day to bust us.
We only pull enough to pay for expenses of the club so they have not
pressed any charges as of yet. No one was arrested but a few players were
ticketed.
The person in charge is a Dallas County official and is fishing for more
information about more games in the area. So if you play in a game in
Dallas County and Brice has been there or knows of it I would be very
carefull in the near future. I can prove we did not make a profit, Im not
so sure about all the other clubs :)
I will be fighting this even though I may lose. My lawyer is saying its
50-50 due to the way we ran it, somewhat legally if you follow the letter
of the law as no one had an economic benefit as stated in 47.02 of the
Texas penal code. His thinking is they will not prosecute due to
insuffecient evidence but will try to keep all that was confiscated,
chips, cash and Kem Cards.
I am also talking with Dallas City Council to see if I can open up a
non-rake non-profit poker club in Dallas. I make enough $$ at my other
business but would love to see the kind of action in California brought to
the DFW area. This was my goal from the beginning, that is why we ran it
as non-profit from Day 1.
If anyone wants updates please email me at poke...@MMOExchange.com
Ross
TexMo
Irish Mike
I don't know you, never played poker in Dallas but I have played hundreds of
hours in these "charity" games. At the risk of jumping to a conclusion, I
would like to say; "Bullshit!" There is no way in hell that you, and all of
your dealers, spent hours and hours every week, week after week dealing and
running poker games without making any money. Mother Theresa maybe, but no
one else I've ever met.
Irish Mike
"TexMos" <anon...@GameJersey.com> wrote in message
news:EtJkc.3527042$iA2.4...@news.easynews.com...
EricDComer
> "We only pull enough to pay for expenses of the club"
>
> I don't know you, never played poker in Dallas but I have played hundreds of
> hours in these "charity" games. At the risk of jumping to a conclusion, I
> would like to say; "Bullshit!" There is no way in hell that you, and all of
> your dealers, spent hours and hours every week, week after week dealing and
> running poker games without making any money. Mother Theresa maybe, but no
> one else I've ever met.
>
> Irish Mike
>
I've always wondered about Mother Theresa's games. Are they any good?
How is the rake? Is she a good player?
Eric
Irish Mike
gave the losers cab fare to get to Mass the next day.
Irish Mike
"EricDComer" <ericd...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1ad4cba8.0405...@posting.google.com...
poker knight
what night that is, I would love to get a front row seat for that argument.
As far as a no profit place, that is impossible. I suppose a bunch of
rich kids decided to get together and deal, host, provide food, beverage,
tables, chips, and rent all just out of the goodness of poker.
To expect your patrons or anyone else to believe that is crazy.
Good luck in your no poker ventures, cause this one is done.
redspot
news:Ws_kc.3583908$iA2.4...@news.easynews.com...
> I wish you luck going in front of the dallas city council, let me know
> what night that is, I would love to get a front row seat for that
argument.
>
> As far as a no profit place, that is impossible. I suppose a bunch of
> rich kids decided to get together and deal, host, provide food, beverage,
> tables, chips, and rent all just out of the goodness of poker.
>
> To expect your patrons or anyone else to believe that is crazy.
There is a difference between "no profit" and "no revenues and expenses."
You can take in revenues and pay it all out in expenses for dealers, hosts,
food, beverages, tables, chips and rent and be left with no profit (or even
with a loss).
Haven't you ever seen the sign in some mom-and-pop store:
"This is a non-profit business.
We didn't plan it that way,
it's just the way it turned out."
Chris Barnes
> His thinking is they will not
> prosecute due to insuffecient evidence but will try to keep all that
> was confiscated, chips, cash and Kem Cards.
I'm pretty sure that if they don't prosecute (and win), they can't keep
your stuff.
--
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
ch...@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes
Usenet really is all about standing around and hitting the ground
with clubs, on a spot where many years earlier a dead horse lay.
Randy Hudson
Chris Barnes <ch...@txbarnes.com> wrote:
> I'm pretty sure that if they don't prosecute (and win), they can't keep
> your stuff.
Then you're pretty wrong.
Seizure has been discussed on this newsgroup before. Essentially, once
they've taken the money, you have to sue them to get it back. Not only do
you have to hire an attorney and pay other legal costs to do that, it also
means the burden of proof is on you, the plaintiff, to prove (via
preponderance of evidence) that the property should be returned to you: that
it belongs to you, and that it was not used in furtherance of any crime.
--
Randy Hudson
mae...@excite.com
Not sure how anyone would be forced into prostitution.
"bomb" <bomb@fragism*SPAM*.com> wrote in message news:<408bc0e0$0$31682$fa0f...@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>...
> > I find this interesting that you distinguish poker from drugs and
> > prostitution, seems somewhat hypocritical to me. Fundamentally the reason
> > gambling should not be treated as criminal is the very same reason that
> > drugs and prostitution should be legal . . . . They are all consensual
> acts
> > without any victim.
> >
> > I do not understand how anyone can complain that gambling should be legal
> > but complain that drugs and prostitution should not be
>
> There are countless cases of abuse in forcing someone to participate in drug
> dealing or prostituiton, I know of no situation where someone was in danger
> of their life in being forced to deal a hand of poker, if you seriuosly
> think prostituion and drug dealing are consensual victimless crimes get a
> clue.
>
>
> bomb
Stephen Penta
> e> >>There are countless cases of abuse in forcing someone to participate
> in
> drug dealing or prostituiton,
>
>
> >Name three cases of an adult being forced to use drugs (not
> including the
> >legal forced medication cases). Even if you wanted to count the
> alleged use
> >of "date rape drugs" (which is really outside of the model we are
> talking
> >about -- As may reference was to recreational drugs) those claims
> appear >to be far more anecdotal and most appear suspect.
>
>
> You must be a moron. References to date rape drug usage is
> anecdotal? An amusing incident? The one administering the drug will
> get lots of amusement as his prey lies there limp less and helpless.
>
> As far as adults being forced to do drugs, it goes back to the pain
> and pleasure principle. There are thousands of addicts and they need
> thousands of drug dealers. Addicts, once they take one dose of their
> drug do not have the power of choice of the second or third, etc.
> They only have choice over the first. So when the pain of using
> drugs (ie, arrests, jail, homelessness, loss of dignity and personal
> standards, loss of family and friends) outweighs the pleasure in
> using drugs, they will stop and choose not to take the first.
>
> These officers who spent time in preparation breaking up a few poker
> games actually contribute more to the city's vice than not. Because,
> the less police on the streets the more dealers, addicts. Most
> crimes are in some way connected with drug abuse (yes, alcohol is a
> drug too). Do you think prostitutes are entrepreneurs? Most are
> prostitutes themselves to their drug of choice. Do you think that
> normal girls suck and f*** for $20? Gee I want to see the next Harry
> Potter film and need twenty dollars, drop me off in the hood so I can
> suck a quick d***. If the police are spending time and effort on
> where the next poker game is being held versus putting pressure and
> force and presence on the streets like real vice cops do, the painful
> consequences of using go down, and therefore usage itself goes up.
> When usage goes up, prostitution goes up, crime goes up, etc.
>
> Be real buddy, the original poster hit the nail on the head in more
> ways than one.
>
> Stephen Penta
--
Stephen Penta
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Gary Carson
>You can take in revenues and pay it all out in expenses for dealers, hosts,
>food, beverages, tables, chips and rent and be left with no profit
That's a hell of a defense.
"I have a large, steady revenue stream, but I'm too damn stupid to figure out
how to profit from it"
Gary Carson
>> prosecute due to insuffecient evidence but will try to keep all that
>> was confiscated, chips, cash and Kem Cards.
>I'm pretty sure that if they don't prosecute (and win), they can't keep
>your stuff.
They can keep it even if they never had any intention of prosecuting.
Gary Carson
>dues and sell food and various beverages.
The CC games in Texas are almost all legal games.
The dues and food/beverage sales are not some pretense that attempts to profit
from the games.
Poker is not illegal in Texas.
da pickle
news:20040504120808...@mb-m23.wmconnect.com...
> >> His thinking is they will not
> >> prosecute due to insuffecient evidence but will try to keep all that
> >> was confiscated, chips, cash and Kem Cards.
>
> >I'm pretty sure that if they don't prosecute (and win), they can't keep
> >your stuff.
>
> They can keep it even if they never had any intention of prosecuting.
Boy are you right about this, Gary. I know I disagree with a lot of what
you post, but this one is so very true. The federalization of crime has
gotten completely out of hand. There should be few "federal" crimes, but
the growth in the last 30 years has been astronomical. The courts are about
to go under. The Congressional Research Service says it can no longer say
how many federal crimes exist. In the late 19th century, Congress passed
the first criminal statutes about "misuse" of the mail. The relatively
new "Mann Act" in the early twentieth century led the way to even more
federal prosecution. For the first time in 60 years, the US SupCt ruled
that a federal statute exceeded Congress' authority under the Commerce
Clause ... US v Lopez ... the statute was the Gun-Free School Zones Act.
Not many circuits have acted on Lopez ... last year, the Ninth Circuit
overturned two convictions (one on child porn and the other on machine guns)
on the grounds that the offenses were too remote from interstate commerce..
it also has said that the "Controlled Dangerous Substances Act" is likely
unconstitutional. The various "States" have more than enough criminal laws.
The fed will do well to pull back from federalizing this too. It is a GIANT
mess.
Gary Carson
>
>Boy are you right about this, Gary. I know I disagree with a lot of what
>you post, but this one is so very true. The federalization of crime
I don't think it has anything to do with the federalization of crime. Texas
law allows them to seize and destroy privately owned gambling paraphinalia even
if they don't arrest anybody. The cash is just a nice little bonus for local
law enforcement.
Bjgkaraoke
>I don't think it has anything to do with the federalization of crime. Texas
>law allows them to seize and destroy privately owned gambling paraphinalia
>even
>if they don't arrest anybody. The cash is just a nice little bonus for
>local
>law enforcement.
Years ago when a card room in Independence, Oregon was raided by the local
sheriff (even though the city council of Independence had approved it), nobody
ever got back the money that was confiscated.
Barbara Gallamore