I'm for taxing them twice that much

[risky biz]

And taxing vapers even more than that.

HALF of the smokers have a smoking-related disease? And they still don't have enough brains to stop smoking?


'There are more than 34 million smokers in the U.S. and over 16 million are living with a smoking-related disease, according to the CDC. Cigarettes are the leading cause of preventable disease, disability and death in the United States, causing 480,000 deaths per year.'

House Democrats have proposed a tax hike on tobacco and nicotine products to help fund their $3.5 trillion spending plan.

The measure may increase current levies on cigarettes, cigars and roll-your-own and smokeless tobacco, according to a plan summary. They have also proposed new taxes on vaping products.

Companies typically pass so-called excise taxes — levies on specific goods such as alcohol, gasoline, soda and tobacco — along to customers with higher prices.'

'One of the proposals, doubling the cigarette tax, may cost someone smoking a pack per day an extra $400 per year, depending on where they live, Boesen estimates.'

These tax increases may bring in more than $96 billion in revenue over the next decade, according to estimates from the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation.'
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/15/house-democrats-tax-hike-on-tobacco-may-violate-bidens-pledge-.html

[risky biz]

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 9:43:07 PM UTC-7, risky biz wrote:
> And taxing vapers even more than that.
>

~ HALF of the smokers have a smoking-related disease? And they still don't have enough brains to stop smoking?

OH, FUCK ME. IT'S 47.0588235%. I MADE A MISTAKE. I MADE A MISTAKE. I MADE A MISTAKE.

Please accept my admission, 'splash-bob' and 'Blab in Vancouver'.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[VegasJerry]

On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 9:43:07 PM UTC-7, risky biz wrote:

.

Attempted behavior modification through taxes does no good. The rich don't give a shit and the poor simply starve their kids.

Many years ago, I stood in line at a grocery store in a poor part of town. In line in front of me were a young couple with two kids. The parents had on brand new leather jackets. The clerk counted up the food and said the total. Then she knowingly waited as the parents, knowing how much they had, slid a loaf of bread and box of cereal and quart of milk back toward the clerk for her to remove from the total; leaving a carton of cigarettes', a six-pack of beer and a few cans of food.

Higher taxes on booze and cigarettes hurts children.

(Kinda of like the Governors of Texas and Florida not caring if kids and teachers die of Covid, while there own staff must use masks).

[risky biz]

Somewhat interesting anecdote about a couple of deadbeats but:

'The research is clear: increases in tobacco taxes decrease tobacco use. Indeed, raising taxes on tobacco and thereby increasing its price is one of the most effective ways to reduce tobacco use. Prices affect virtually all measures of cigarette use, including per-capita consumption, smoking rates and the number of cigarettes smoked daily. These effects apply across a wide range of racial and socioeconomic groups.

Smoking-related illnesses remain the leading cause of preventable death in the United States, with more than 540,000 deaths annually, and cost the country more than $300 billion each year, including $170 billion for direct medical care for adults and more than $156 billion in lost productivity. Yet the federal tax on cigarettes has not increased since 2009, when the Children’s Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act raised the tax to $1.01 per pack. State taxes per cigarette pack average $1.78, with rates ranging from 17 cents in Missouri to $4.50 in Washington, D.C.'
https://truthinitiative.org/research-resources/tobacco-prevention-efforts/importance-tobacco-taxes

Tobacco and vape prices shouldn't be kept low enough that children can afford them.

[VegasJerry]

On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 11:15:07 AM UTC-7, risky biz wrote:
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 7:09:07 AM UTC-7, VegasJerry wrote:
> > On Wednesday, September 15, 2021 at 9:43:07 PM UTC-7, risky biz wrote:
> > > And taxing vapers even more than that.
> > >
> > > HALF of the smokers have a smoking-related disease? And they still don't have enough brains to stop smoking?
> > >
> > >
> > > 'There are more than 34 million smokers in the U.S. and over 16 million are living with a smoking-related disease, according to the CDC. Cigarettes are the leading cause of preventable disease, disability and death in the United States, causing 480,000 deaths per year.'
> > >
> > > House Democrats have proposed a tax hike on tobacco and nicotine products to help fund their $3.5 trillion spending plan.
> > >
> > > The measure may increase current levies on cigarettes, cigars and roll-your-own and smokeless tobacco, according to a plan summary. They have also proposed new taxes on vaping products.
> > >
> > > Companies typically pass so-called excise taxes — levies on specific goods such as alcohol, gasoline, soda and tobacco — along to customers with higher prices.'
> > >
> > > 'One of the proposals, doubling the cigarette tax, may cost someone smoking a pack per day an extra $400 per year, depending on where they live, Boesen estimates.'
> > >
> > > These tax increases may bring in more than $96 billion in revenue over the next decade, according to estimates from the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation.'
> > > https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/15/house-democrats-tax-hike-on-tobacco-may-violate-bidens-pledge-.html
> > .
> >
> > Attempted behavior modification through taxes does no good. The rich don't give a shit and the poor simply starve their kids.
> >
> > Many years ago, I stood in line at a grocery store in a poor part of town. In line in front of me were a young couple with two kids. The parents had on brand new leather jackets. The clerk counted up the food and said the total. Then she knowingly waited as the parents, knowing how much they had, slid a loaf of bread and box of cereal and quart of milk back toward the clerk for her to remove from the total; leaving a carton of cigarettes', a six-pack of beer and a few cans of food.
> >
> > Higher taxes on booze and cigarettes hurts children.
> >
> > (Kinda of like the Governors of Texas and Florida not caring if kids and teachers die of Covid, while there own staff must use masks).
> Somewhat interesting anecdote about a couple of deadbeats but:
>
> 'The research is clear: increases in tobacco taxes decrease tobacco use. Indeed, raising taxes on tobacco and thereby increasing its price is one of the most effective ways to reduce tobacco use. Prices affect virtually all measures of cigarette use, including per-capita consumption, smoking rates and the number of cigarettes smoked daily. These effects apply across a wide range of racial and socioeconomic groups.
>
> Smoking-related illnesses remain the leading cause of preventable death in the United States, with more than 540,000 deaths annually, and cost the country more than $300 billion each year, including $170 billion for direct medical care for adults and more than $156 billion in lost productivity.

.

So if we're taxing extra (Tabaco, alcohol ) to "Attempted behavior modification for health," why not for French fries, fatty foods, cars with very powerful motors, auto racers,? (Additional list of dangerous foods, medicines and activities on request).

> Yet the federal tax on cigarettes has not increased since 2009,

Partly because they did not use the money for it's original intentions, but stuffed a lot of it into favorite political projects. (That made some corporations money). You're dealing with politicians, you know.

> when the Children’s Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act raised the tax to $1.01 per pack. State taxes per cigarette pack average $1.78, with rates ranging from 17 cents in Missouri to $4.50 in Washington, D.C.'
> https://truthinitiative.org/research-resources/tobacco-prevention-efforts/importance-tobacco-taxes
>
> Tobacco and vape prices shouldn't be kept low enough that children can afford them.

Yet smoke they will. I did..

[risky biz]

~ ~ Tobacco and vape prices shouldn't be kept low enough that children can afford them.

~ Yet smoke they will. I did..

Cigarette taxes were high when you were a child?

[VegasJerry]

No, the price itself, being I was a kid and had no job.

Just as kids are smoking now.

[Tim Norfolk]

When I left Britain, booze in the pubs and cigarettes were relatively cheap. Kept the population happy.

[risky biz]

'Electronic cigarettes (E-cigarettes)
E-cigarettes have been the most commonly used tobacco product among youth since 2014.
After increasing between 2017 and 2019, current (past 30 day) use of e-cigarettes went down among middle and high school students from 2019 to 2020.6,7,8,9
About 1 of every 20 middle school students (4.7%) reported in 2020 that they used e-cigarettes in the past 30 days—a decrease from 10.5% in 2019.6,9,10
About 1 of every 5 high school students ➡️(19.6%) reported in 2020 that they used electronic cigarettes in the past 30 days—a decrease from 27.5% in 2019.⬅️

Cigarettes
From 2011 to 2020, current (past 30 day) cigarette smoking went down among middle and high school students.6,7,9,10
Nearly 2 of every 100 middle school students (1.6%) reported in 2020 that they smoked cigarettes in the past 30 days—a decrease from 4.3% in 2011.
Nearly 5 of every 100 high school students ➡️(4.6%) reported in 2020 that they smoked cigarettes in the past 30 days—a decrease from 15.8% in 2011.⬅️'
https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/youth_data/tobacco_use/index.htm

And taxes haven't kept pace with inflation.

[VegasJerry]

Isn't the tax a percentage of the product?

[Tim Norfolk]

I think it's fixed, like gasoline taxes.

[risky biz]

~ Isn't the tax a percentage of the product?

No. They're excise taxes.

[VegasJerry]

If that's the case, then yes.