Tour de France (Off Topic)
RTN4
I watched the Tour de France last night on the OTN network (whatever
that is) I'm not much of a sports fan, but I found the whole thing
fascinating. He falls down hard, gets back up again and wins the damn
race!
And the crowds! It reminded me of Mardi Gras. They would reach out
and almost touch the cyclists and then pull back. Some of them were
dressed up like, well, they were really decked out.
Anyway the whole thing was fascinating to me, and I've never seen it
before.
So how does the Tour de France work? They were talking about all the
different heats, and adding or subtracting seconds and rest days. I
thought it was just one long race, but I'm totally ignorant.
If Lance Armstrong wins it will be his fifth straight victory. And to
think he had cancer and then came back and won. Is Lance Armstrong
one of the world's most gifted athletes or what?
Grant Beardsley
have some sort of chivalry code that dictates that when the champion
crashes, the group he was a part of slows down and waits for him to catch
up. That's what happened with Lance, and, as he stated, he once held his
group up waiting for Ullrich who had fallen. This was a couple of years ago
"RTN4" <RT...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:99bshvordssn8n7ed...@4ax.com...
Coligan
one night and i became hooked. As for how it works, Everyday everyone
starts the stage at the same time, and get timed to the end of the stage,
The person with the lowest overall time wins, which rarely ever is the
first person to cross the line at Paris.
And actually cancer has helped his cycling career. It allowed hime to
slim up and lose alot of extra weight which is why he is so good in the
mountains.
And i am very jeaous of you my local cable company took OLN off of it's
line up a couple weeks before the tour started so for the first time in 6
years i can't watch it.
_________________________________________________________________
Posted using RecPoker.com - http://www.recpoker.com
Al.Kaseltzer
>
>> I watched the Tour de France last night on the OTN network (whatever
>> that is) I'm not much of a sports fan, but I found the whole thing
>> fascinating. He falls down hard, gets back up again and wins the
>> damn race!
They're gonna have to do something about those "!%£"Q$^ing spectators.
>> So how does the Tour de France work? They were talking about all the
>> different heats, and adding or subtracting seconds and rest days. I
>> thought it was just one long race, but I'm totally ignorant.
Well, it is one long race, sort of, but split into daily stages. The big
winner is the guy with the smallest overall time for the lot at the very
end, but the winner of each stage gets a prize too, and there are also
prizes for sprints within stages, and first-to-the-top-of-the-mountain, etc.
Otherwise there'd be *&%^-all in it for most of the guys. They record
everbody's time each day and add them all up at the end - hence Lance
rushing to the clock when he finished that stage, to see how many seconds
Ullrich was behind - he was only 15 or 18 (I forget) behind at the end of
the previous day.
Point to note is that when a bunch come in together, they get the same time
(otherwise they'd all crash trying to get past each other...). There are
rules about how bunchy a bunch has to be to count as a bunch!
>>
>> If Lance Armstrong wins it will be his fifth straight victory. And
>> to think he had cancer and then came back and won. Is Lance
>> Armstrong one of the world's most gifted athletes or what?
He's gotta be up there, but the UK newspapers are currently reporting that
some woman freediver was procalimed (by somebody a bit partisan) to be the
world's most perfect athlete. Odd sport, freediving!
I'm knackered after about 8 miles at 12 mph on a bike, those guys do
anything up to 200km a day at average speeds of over 25km/h
Amazing
Linda K Sherman
>
> So how does the Tour de France work? They were talking about all the
> different heats, and adding or subtracting seconds and rest days. I
> thought it was just one long race, but I'm totally ignorant.
Don't make yourself too crazy about this. Some of the scoring is so
complicated that even experts have trouble with it.
But here's how a cycling nut friend of mine explained it to me.
Basically, the current overall leader (yellow jersey) has a time of
0:00, and everyone else is plus from that.
There are time bonuses for the top three finishers of some stages.
These are basically added to the scores of everyone else who finished
behind them.
Everyone who finishes in the main pack gets the same time as the leader
of the pack. So if there's a breakaway and the stage winner is 1:15 in
front of the pack, the entire pack gets +1:15, even if the guy at the
back of the bunch is 10 seconds behind the rest.
Then there are sub-competitions, such as the King of the Mountains.
Some are points-based, and some are time-based. Some are based on the
results of specified stages, and others on heats within stages. The
points-based ones are figured according to order of finish within the
applicable stages or heats. A heat is just part of a stage between two
specified points.
Riders and teams get cash prizes for winning individual stages, or
individual heats, as well as for winning the various jerseys.
> If Lance Armstrong wins it will be his fifth straight victory. And to
> think he had cancer and then came back and won. Is Lance Armstrong
> one of the world's most gifted athletes or what?
It's hard to believe that some dork actually wrote a widely-circulated
newspaper column last year saying that professional cyclists aren't real
athletes.
Lin
Cox
> >
> >> I watched the Tour de France last night on the OTN network (whatever
> >> that is) I'm not much of a sports fan, but I found the whole thing
> >> fascinating. He falls down hard, gets back up again and wins the
> >> damn race!
>
> They're gonna have to do something about those "!%£"Q$^ing spectators.
Actually blamed himself for riding too close and he apologized to the
spectator.
That could just be PR for the French public, but you never know I guess.
Cox
got OLN
I started watching all the stages, particularly the mountain ones. The
stage with
'The Look' at Alpe D'Huez last year was almost as cool as the stage two
days ago. Two days ago was amazing.
Lou Krieger
news:PoyTa.61363$R92....@news2.central.cox.net...
It's a gas. I got addicted when he first started winning and the moment I
got OLN I started watching all the stages, particularly the mountain ones.
The stage with 'The Look' at Alpe D'Huez last year was almost as cool as the
stage two days ago. Two days ago was amazing. <<
Yesterdays stage was amazing, when Armstrong crashed, Iban Mayo fell over
him, Armstrong gets up, nearly falls again, then goes on to drop Ulrich on
the last climb. Today's stage was incredible as Tyler Hamilton, who broke
his collarbone in two places on Stage One or Two, went on a 90 mile
breakaway to win the stage.
The upcoming time trial stage will be where the race will be won or lost.
It's on the next to the last day, and Armstrong needs to hold his lead so
that the final day winds up not as a race, but as the usual ceremonial
promenade through the streets of Paris. With the race already in hand on
that day, you'll see many of the riders actually sipping champagne as they
ride and generally carrying on to celebrate three tough weeks.
Right now it's a two-man race. If it's close, look for the Postal Service
team, with all nine of its riders still in the race, to control the peloton
and turn the last day into a criterium rather than a ceremonial promenade.
Ulrich's Bianchi Team has, I believe, only three team members still in the
race, so he'll have a tougher time of it if the last day really does become
a "race" instead of a coronation.
They show the TDF live at 5:00 AM in California, and I've been up watching
it almost every day. It's actually a lot more exciting than watching poker
on the tube.
calmar
>> >
>> >> I watched the Tour de France last night on the OTN network (whatever
>> >> that is) I'm not much of a sports fan, but I found the whole thing
>> >> fascinating. He falls down hard, gets back up again and wins the
>> >> damn race!
>>
>> They're gonna have to do something about those "!%£"Q$^ing spectators.
>
> Actually blamed himself for riding too close and he apologized to the
> spectator.
>
Actually I'm quite unhappy about the indicent there. I would like
to see Jan Ullrich winning. I liked him already when he won the
`Tour de France' when no Armstrong was around (1997).
I think without this incident, it might finished
differently (less difference). This incident was enforcing Lance,
and probably disturbing Ullrich. It's MORE difficult to start an attack
out of nothing, instead of surpassing a more or less waiting
person and shocking him so right away.
IMHO
Nevertheless, Armstrong is of course GREAT, and when he wins,
it's ok too (for me). (it's really impresssing how he can climb hills
.. especially because he is not really as light (ca. 66kg) as p.e
the Italian Pantani (ca.56kg) who had a similar style climbing
mountains, IMO. (Armstrong just has a more impressing style)
Ullricht has more `'work' to do in order to climb mountains due to
his additional 5-9 kilo (at the start of the tour it
was 8kg AFAIK)
Of course this additional weight (and brute-force) gives him advantage
in flat courses, where the wind is about the same obstacle for
light and heavy drivers.
So the 50 kilometer flat-course at Saturday(?) will really be
interesting :-)
Greetings
--
calmar (o_
//\ <--- GNU/Linux is GREAT
V_/_ www.calmar.ws
Stephen D. Cohen
> > On Jul 22 2003 8:01PM, RTN4 wrote:
> >
> >> I watched the Tour de France last night on the OTN network (whatever
> >> that is) I'm not much of a sports fan, but I found the whole thing
> >> fascinating. He falls down hard, gets back up again and wins the
> >> damn race!
>
> They're gonna have to do something about those "!%£"Q$^ing spectators.
I don't know about that - how do you secure both sides of a 120
mile long path? Pretty darned tough. Mr. Armstrong simply rode too
close to the side and hooked a bar on some kids shopping bag. The
look on the kids face nicely mirrored Mr. Armstrongs. The point is,
prudence suggests that one ride farther from the spectators when
possible. Towards the end when it becomes a tunnel of spectators -
now that is scary...
> Otherwise there'd be *&%^-all in it for most of the guys. They record
> everbody's time each day and add them all up at the end - hence Lance
> rushing to the clock when he finished that stage, to see how many seconds
> Ullrich was behind - he was only 15 or 18 (I forget) behind at the end of
> the previous day.
Mr. Armstrong was 15 seconds ahead of Mr. Ulrich at the start of
that stage. He was ahead of Mr. Ulrich by 1:07 after the stage.
Barring any significant unexpected event in the time trial on Friday,
Mr. Armstrong has his fifth. The time trial on Friday will probably
be the most insteresting stage for the rest of the tour.
> Point to note is that when a bunch come in together, they get the same time
> (otherwise they'd all crash trying to get past each other...). There are
> rules about how bunchy a bunch has to be to count as a bunch!
This is also why the only times to really win the Tour de France
are the mountain stages and the time trials. No one is really strong
enough to ride away from the bunch consistantly and the bunch gets the
same time.
> He's gotta be up there, but the UK newspapers are currently reporting that
> some woman freediver was procalimed (by somebody a bit partisan) to be the
> world's most perfect athlete. Odd sport, freediving!
And odd periodicals, UK newspapers. :)
> I'm knackered after about 8 miles at 12 mph on a bike, those guys do
> anything up to 200km a day at average speeds of over 25km/h
> Amazing
OK - this is why I posted a reply - try closer to 25 MILES per
hour - for the slow stages. OK, today was 24.5 average MILES per
hour, but it had a fair amount of climbing. The flatter stages
average a mile per hour or more faster than this. And they do this
for three weeks. With only two rest days. Simply astounding.
Steve Cohen
P.S. Poker content - Should Lance Armstrong call or raise two bets to
him with As2TJs in late position in O8?
Peter Lizak
> I'm knackered after about 8 miles at 12 mph on a bike, those guys do
> anything up to 200km a day at average speeds of over 25km/h
> Amazing
I worked with a guy that went to the Hawaii Iron Man. He'd bike some
nights for 4 hours. That was if he didn't do at least a 10K run. Plus
some days he'd do a few hundred laps in the pool.
Me, I'll stick to lifting.
P
>
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Lizak
pli...@math.uwaterloo.ca
Scientific Computing Lab, University of Waterloo
Peter Lizak
> him with As2TJs in late position in O8?
Call, go for the raise on the the flop
aaron
calmar wrote:
>
> Ullricht has more `'work' to do in order to climb mountains due to
> his additional 5-9 kilo (at the start of the tour it
> was 8kg AFAIK)
> Greetings
>
he'd be lighter if he hadn't taken all those performance enhancing drugs.
-
D. Franks
years (just graduated in may) and have raced against Lance a couple of
times (I'm being very generous to myself). Basically the tour de
france typically consists of about 21 stages. The route changes each
year but always hits the pyrenees mountains and the alps. 3 kinds of
stages:
1. "regular" flat stages - these are usually won by sprint
specialists or breakaway groups. Basically, you won't ever see the
contenders on these stages simply because it his very, very hard to
stay away from the peloton (the main pack) all day. The pace will be
hard for the first hour or so until a group or solo rider finally gets
clear. The pace then becomes pretty leisurely (easy for these guys,
insane for a normal person) and the breakaway will often build up a
large advantage 10-15 minutes until the peloton starts reeling them
in. The sprinter's teams will get to the front and start pushing the
pace very hard, usually catching the break in the last few kilometers.
Every once in a while they will stay away and get a spectacular
victory. Most of the time, the riders in the break have no illusions
about winning the stage, they're just getting their sponsors on TV
(2nd most watched sporting event behind the world cup).
2. Time trials. These are basically races against the clock. Riders
race individually on the course and get to use all kinds of
aerodynamic equipment that is normally banned. There's usally a short
TT at the begining of the tour (the prologue - about 10k) and a couple
of longer ones (40-50k). More recently, there has been a team time
trial as well. All of the teams start with 9 riders. I'm not
positive, but I believe the 7th guy across the line gets the time for
the entire team. These are stages that are often won by time trial
specialists, but the top contenders will often win or place in the top
5. It's hard to win the tour if you can't time trial. These are
probably the most painful and draining stages.
3. mountain stages - these are where you will see the peloton
explode. The climbers will be vying for victory in these stages
(small wirey guys- usually 135 lbs soaking set), but the overall
contenders will be looking to put serious time into everybody else.
It's not uncommon to see rider lose 30 minutes on the leader in one of
these stages. This is important because once you're that far down in
the overall classification, it's much easier to get clear of the pack
in a breakaway because the leaders aren't going to wear themselves out
chasing you down. This is why you often see a lone rider on a
mountain stages way out in front on the final climb. He got away
early and nobody is too concerned about catching him (although they
often do).
Usually there are 10-20 second time bonuses for placing in a stage.
In the past, Lance has dominated the time trials and the mountain
stages, but this year, he seems to be a little off form. It's all
going to come down to the time trial on saturday. If Lance can win,
he will be the 5th rider to win 5 tours and the 2nd to win 5 in a row
(nobody has won 6).
Basically there are several races going on within the tour. The
biggest is for the General Classification. This is for the rider with
the lowest cumulative time. The leader of this classification wears
the yellow jersey. It's possible to win the tour without ever
actually winning an individual stage.
Then there is the poka-dot jersey. This is the king of the mountains
competition. Basically riders get points for being the first 3 over a
mountain summit. The rider with the most points wears the jersey.
The green jersey is the points competition (basically the sprinters
jersey). You earn points by being in the first three across any
intermediate sprint point or a non-mountain top finish.
Then there is the white jersey which is the same as the yellow jersey
but for the best young rider (under 23).
Cycing has a great deal of lore and tradition surrounding it. Lance
is sometimes referred to as the patron the peloton. That basically
means that since he has been so dominant the last few years, he gets
to control alot of the race. For example, if the race is coming
through a rider's hometown, that rider will ask Lance for permission
to ride ahead of the field and come through his town leading the race.
He will then sit up once they get outside the town. When negotiate
through Lance. For example, last year the race for the green jersey
came down to the last day and the 2 riders in contention negotiated
through lance about which sprint points they would contest. If the
yellow jersey falls, the other riders will not attack. It's the same
if the yellow jersey has to stop to use the bathroom. There was a big
todo a couple of months ago in the dauphine libre (another stage race
that Lance won) where a guy attacked when lance was using the
restroom. He caught a lot of flak for doing it.
Keep an eye out for the guy dressed as the devil running along side
the riders on the mountain finishes. He has become a cycling staple
and has his own sponsors.
There are also 2 other grand tours. The giro d'italia (tour of italy)
and the vuelta a espana (tour of spain). They are both similar in
size and scope to the tour, but the tour is still the biggest.
Roberto Heras, lance's lietenant and a gifted climber won the vuelta
few years ago and has placed 4th and 2nd the last two years.
If you're enjoying the tour, you should definitely check out some of
the other bicycle racing on OLN. The spring classics are awesome,
partically the cobbles of Paris-Roubaix. www.cyclingnews.com and
www.dailypeloton.com are great places to keep up on the world of
professional cycling. And check out www.eurosport.com for live audio
feeds of the tour at work.
I didn't mean to ramble on too much, but it's kind of like somebody
asking you to explain the superbowl - there's alot to it. If you have
any other questions, I'd be glad to answer them for you.
Muckraker
> RTN4 wrote:
> >
> > So how does the Tour de France work? They were talking about all the
> > different heats, and adding or subtracting seconds and rest days. I
> > thought it was just one long race, but I'm totally ignorant.
The entire race is broken up into 20 some odd stages covering between
2000-2500 miles total.
> Don't make yourself too crazy about this. Some of the scoring is so
> complicated that even experts have trouble with it.
The scoring is actually quite simply to understand because it is very
logical.
There are 5 jerseys to be won
Yellow- The Overall Leader in the tour France. It is know as the
"maillot jaune"
which is french for yellow jersey.
Polka Dot Jersey- This goes to King of the Mountains. The winner of
this jersey is determined by the climber with the most points. On
certain stages there are check points within the race. At these
checkpoints points are given to the riders who cross the checkpoint
first second in a descending order. The checkpoints vary in difficulty
from HC to 4. 4th catagory is worth 5 3 and 1 points meaning the first
person to climb that mountain and cross the checkpoint line gets 5
points. 2nd gets 3 and 3rd gets 1. For HC which stands for Hors
Catagorie which means "Highest Catagory" The points break down 15
places going from 40 pts for the first to reach the chcekpoint to 1 pt
for the 15th rider.
The rider with the most cumulative points at the end of stage wears
the polka dot jersey.
Green Jersey- This works quite similarly to the Polka dot jersey
except there are sprint checkpoints instead of mountain checkpoints
White Jersey- This goes to the rider 25 years and younger who has the
best overall time.
Red Jersey- This is awarded after the race and is voted upon by a
committee and given to the rider who has shown the most courage and
heart.
There are some other interesting jerseys and modifications.
Riders who have their jersey arms trimmed with rainbow cuffs signify
former world champions
Also certain rider must wear the national champion jersey of their
country if they are the national champion.
>
> But here's how a cycling nut friend of mine explained it to me.
>
> Basically, the current overall leader (yellow jersey) has a time of
> 0:00, and everyone else is plus from that.
Yes this is true but the overall leader has the best cumulative time
of all the stages ridden thus far and any defecit is amount of time
behind the top overall cumulative time.
>
> There are time bonuses for the top three finishers of some stages.
> These are basically added to the scores of everyone else who finished
> behind them.
There are time bonuses that are also found at certain checkpoints as
well like the sprint check points
>
> Everyone who finishes in the main pack gets the same time as the leader
> of the pack. So if there's a breakaway and the stage winner is 1:15 in
> front of the pack, the entire pack gets +1:15, even if the guy at the
> back of the bunch is 10 seconds behind the rest.
They do this for safety reasons othersise you'd see alot more crashes
at the end of the stages.
>
> Then there are sub-competitions, such as the King of the Mountains.
> Some are points-based, and some are time-based. Some are based on the
> results of specified stages, and others on heats within stages. The
> points-based ones are figured according to order of finish within the
> applicable stages or heats. A heat is just part of a stage between two
> specified points.
See above explanation
>
> Riders and teams get cash prizes for winning individual stages, or
> individual heats, as well as for winning the various jerseys.
The other jerseys pay quite well and have quite a bit of prestiege to
them.
>
> > If Lance Armstrong wins it will be his fifth straight victory. And to
> > think he had cancer and then came back and won. Is Lance Armstrong
> > one of the world's most gifted athletes or what?
Lance Armstrong is one of the world's greatest physical specimens.
>
> It's hard to believe that some dork actually wrote a widely-circulated
> newspaper column last year saying that professional cyclists aren't real
> athletes.
>
> Lin
Armstrong himself wrote the columnist and thanked him and agreed with
him saying that he "sucks at ball sports" Armostrong is a legendary
physical specimen and one of the greatest sportsmen of the last 100
years.
aaron
D. Franks wrote:
(snip a very good summary)
the only thing i think you missed is teamwork.
--
Linda K Sherman
> I'll stick in my 2 cents here since I was a collegiate cyclist for 4
This clarifies a lot of questions I had. Thanks for the details.
Lin
Linda K Sherman
> The scoring is actually quite simply to understand because it is very
> logical.
Yeah, that's why the commentators fudge all the time before they hear
the official results :).
Seriously, I appreciate the detailed explanation. I don't think I"m
going to become a major cycling fan any time soon, but it makes a lot
more sense to me now.
Lin
calmar
Armstrong would also be lighter if he hadn't taken all those
performance enhancing drugs, so the difference in the weights
would still be there.
(btw: Armstrong was 6 kilo heavier last year, wasn't he)
The incident when they catched Ullrich with not allowed drugs, were
while he was not able to practice ..., while he had an injury
with his knee, and it was a disco-drug, in the case you refer to
this.
I can see no reason that Ullrich takes anything Armstrong and all
the others wouldn't.
Al.Kaseltzer
>>>> I watched the Tour de France last night on the OTN network
>>>> (whatever that is) I'm not much of a sports fan, but I found the
>>>> whole thing fascinating. He falls down hard, gets back up again
>>>> and wins the damn race!
>>
>> They're gonna have to do something about those "!%£"Q$^ing
>> spectators.
>
> Actually blamed himself for riding too close and he apologized to the
> spectator.
I saw it on TV and I blame the spectator. NOT saying it was deliberate, but
it was a stupid accident that was entirely preventable.
Tyler Hamilton is quite something. Breaks his collarbone on the first day,
still going in about 9th, won a stage!
Al.Kaseltzer
>> He's gotta be up there, but the UK newspapers are currently
>> reporting that some woman freediver was procalimed (by somebody a
>> bit partisan) to be the world's most perfect athlete. Odd sport,
>> freediving!
>
> And odd periodicals, UK newspapers. :)
The one I read was reporting the claim, not making it!
>
>> I'm knackered after about 8 miles at 12 mph on a bike, those guys do
>> anything up to 200km a day at average speeds of over 25km/h
>> Amazing
>
> OK - this is why I posted a reply - try closer to 25 MILES per
> hour - for the slow stages. OK, today was 24.5 average MILES per
> hour, but it had a fair amount of climbing. The flatter stages
> average a mile per hour or more faster than this. And they do this
> for three weeks. With only two rest days. Simply astounding.
I was deliberately conservative in my estimate as I couldn't be arsed to go
and look it up.
thevottus
Stephen D. Cohen
> I think without this incident, it might finished
> differently (less difference). This incident was enforcing Lance,
> and probably disturbing Ullrich. It's MORE difficult to start an attack
> out of nothing, instead of surpassing a more or less waiting
> person and shocking him so right away.
> IMHO
Sigh.... You have obviously reviewed the tapes a few times.
Lance was attacking before he got tangled up in the spectators bag.
He and Mayo were a few seconds ahead of Ulrich already. If he hadn't
been, the entire group - all ten of them - would have gone down with
him.
All Mr. Armstrong did was shake off a fall and get back on the
bike and finish what he had started. Mr. Ulrich did the correct thing
by slowing the group (a little) and waiting for Mr. Armstrong. To
suggest that this fall hurt Mr. Ulrich or helped Mr. Armstrong is a
bit of a stretch.
Regards,
Steve
Stephen D. Cohen
> differently (less difference). This incident was enforcing Lance,
> and probably disturbing Ullrich. It's MORE difficult to start an attack
> out of nothing, instead of surpassing a more or less waiting
> person and shocking him so right away.
> IMHO
Sigh.... You have obviously reviewed the tapes a few times.
calmar
> calmar <m...@calmar.ws> wrote in message news:<8yqpdv...@calmar.ws>...
>
>> I think without this incident, it might finished
>> differently (less difference). This incident was enforcing Lance,
>> and probably disturbing Ullrich. It's MORE difficult to start an attack
>> out of nothing, instead of surpassing a more or less waiting
>> person and shocking him so right away.
>> IMHO
>
> Sigh.... You have obviously reviewed the tapes a few
> times.
no, I don't have
> Lance was attacking before he got tangled up in the spectators
> bag.
yep, with Ullrich close behind.
> He and Mayo were a few seconds ahead of Ulrich already. If he hadn't
> been, the entire group - all ten of them - would have gone down with
> him.
One second max I estimate (behind the Spain).
I remember Ullrich had to make a big manoeuvre, which isn't
necessary when he was more than 1-2 second behind.
Nevertheless he was by far NOT disconnected from the other two,
isn it.
>
> All Mr. Armstrong did was shake off a fall and get back on the
> bike and finish what he had started.
Armstrong himself told AKAIK, that this fall enforced him. I
guess he thought (according to himself) that he REALLY needs to
give ALL now when he wants to win the tour.
> Mr. Ulrich did the correct thing
> by slowing the group (a little) and waiting for Mr. Armstrong. To
> suggest that this fall hurt Mr. Ulrich or helped Mr. Armstrong is a
> bit of a stretch.
Anyway, Ullrich himself is satisfied with `only' 1 minute of a
loss.
It's maybe not fair to mention such things what I did. Armstrong
was faster and won. Finally it doesn't really matter who wins for
me. I like both. I'm just an old Ullrich fan.
Maybe it's a bit of a stretch as you said.
Greetings
(PS: I still think the mind is VERY important in such
situations even more than the physical fitness sometimes. And of
course for both it was a special situation. Armstrong with
probably a little shock for a short moment (wake-up shock),
and Ullrich on a slow path not knowing what will happen next (maybe),
seeing someone driving through like crazy in a tremendous
velocity)
(PS: Ullrich loves hot weather, and Armstrong not as much. Maybe
the weather could also be essential at Saturday :)
(PS: Armstrong has now 75 (according to http://www.letour.com)
kilo while he begun with 66kg at the tour start?)
calmar
>
> All Mr. Armstrong did was shake off a fall and get back on the
> bike and finish what he had started.
Maybe similar to his `Cancer-Shocking-Time'. He was probably stronger after
it especialy mentally.
Well that's probably really too stretched.