Convert to islam
Irish Mike
inviting all Americans to convert to islam - or else.
"We invite all Americans and believers to Islam, whatever their role and
status in Bush and Blair's world order," Gadahn says. "Decide today, because
today could be your last day."
"Mansfield, who is a writer and corporate adviser on the Middle East, Islam
and terrorism, said the time reference could indicate an attack is near.
Muslims believe that non-believers should be given a chance to convert
before they are attacked."
Apparently they made an exception to the "give them a chance to convert
before we kill them" rule regarding the Americans in the World Trade Center.
It's amazing to me that many Americans still delude themselves with the myth
that islam is a religion of peace. They refuse to believe that islam makes
no distinction between women & children and military targets. They do not
want to believe that islam gives infidels (which is any non-muslim) only two
choices: convert to islam or be killed. The blame America first crowd is so
busy bashing America that they deny that this is a fundamental tenet of
islam - not just of radical islamofascists.
So, fuck you very much but I decline your offer to convert to islam.
Irish Mike
Burned
WOW!!!!!
Fuck all fascists, Mike!
Fuck all murdering Islamo-fascists trying to destroy the people, and
products of LIBERAL societies, everywhere. Fuck your homegrown Christian-
fascists trying to limit freedoms whilst sending all the resources of the
society to the top-4% of the population! Fuck all Judaic-fascists, who
think it's ok to terrorize, murder, and steal from the Palestinians, in a
slow, but steady genocide! Fuck all Hindu-fascists, who think it's ok to
burn people alive because they belong to another faith .. etc. etc. etc.
Notice a pattern there Einstein?
P.S.
Fuck you too while you're at it. :-)
"Irish Mike" <mjo...@ameritech.net> wrote in
news:OxvKg.20451$kO3....@newssvr12.news.prodigy.com:
Irish Mike
door knobs every where. Let's just say you are a dim-witted, and
kill-filed, liberal twit. Bye-bye.
Irish Mike
"Burned" <n...@a.real.address.com> wrote in message
news:Xns98337444D8...@64.59.144.76...
Burned
You're just an ignorant mf'ing loud-mouthed ahole. Worst of all, you're
WAAAYYYYYYY off-topic foolio. Spread your hate-propaganda elsewhere - at
least do it some place where your audience consists entirely of mindless
idiots; you'll be able to get away with it more easily.
Or, you can just kill-file everyone who thinks you're a f'ing moron.
LOL!
-
"Irish Mike" <mjo...@ameritech.net> wrote in
news:1nwKg.23496$gY6....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:
Bryan Kimmes
On Sep 3 2006 2:31 AM, Irish Mike wrote:
> Following is a cut & paste from a CNN story today. Al Queada is graciously
> inviting all Americans to convert to islam - or else.
>
> "We invite all Americans and believers to Islam, whatever their role and
> status in Bush and Blair's world order," Gadahn says. "Decide today, because
> today could be your last day."
"We invite all Arabs to Democracy, whatever their roles in their current
governments may be." W Says. "Decide today, because tomorrow you might be
building Nukes."
> "Mansfield, who is a writer and corporate adviser on the Middle East, Islam
> and terrorism, said the time reference could indicate an attack is near.
> Muslims believe that non-believers should be given a chance to convert
> before they are attacked."
"Irish Mike, who is an avid Rush Limbaugh listener, can be lied to repeatedly by
the self-serving leaders, yet still follow them blindly, and attempt to defend
the indefensible."
>
> Apparently they made an exception to the "give them a chance to convert
> before we kill them" rule regarding the Americans in the World Trade Center.
Apparently, the United States government made an exception in defending the
country after Osamas declaration of WAR, and his previous attack on the WTC.
> It's amazing to me that many Americans still delude themselves with the myth
> that islam is a religion of peace.
It's amazing to me that anyone still deludes themselves with the myth of
religion.
> They refuse to believe that islam makes
> no distinction between women & children and military targets.
No women or children have died in Iraq. Also, no women or children were killed
in Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
> They do not
> want to believe that islam gives infidels (which is any non-muslim) only two
> choices: convert to islam or be killed.
They do not want to believe that Christians killed hundreds of thousands, only
two choices: convert to Christianity or be killed.
> The blame America first crowd is so
> busy bashing America that they deny that this is a fundamental tenet of
> islam - not just of radical islamofascists.
The blame America first crowd is growing rather large. Apparently 50+ years of
self-serving dominance over the Middle East has had an effect.
> So, fuck you very much but I decline your offer to convert to islam.
I also decline.
Bryan Kimmes
_______________________________________________________________
Your Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
RMHisCOOL
On Sep 3 2006 4:58 AM, Bryan Kimmes wrote:
>
> On Sep 3 2006 2:31 AM, Irish Mike wrote:
>
> > Following is a cut & paste from a CNN story today. Al Queada is graciously
> > inviting all Americans to convert to islam - or else.
> >
> > "We invite all Americans and believers to Islam, whatever their role and
> > status in Bush and Blair's world order," Gadahn says. "Decide today, because
> >
> > today could be your last day."
>
> "We invite all Arabs to Democracy, whatever their roles in their current
> governments may be." W Says. "Decide today, because tomorrow you might be
> building Nukes."
Way to attribute quotes for something that doesn't exist in order to slant it
whichever way suits you. Spoken like a true liberal. I can't even respond to
this because its so idiotic.
>
> > "Mansfield, who is a writer and corporate adviser on the Middle East, Islam
> > and terrorism, said the time reference could indicate an attack is near.
> > Muslims believe that non-believers should be given a chance to convert
> > before they are attacked."
>
> "Irish Mike, who is an avid Rush Limbaugh listener, can be lied to repeatedly
> by
> the self-serving leaders, yet still follow them blindly, and attempt to defend
> the indefensible."
>
Elaborate please. What is indefensible? And how has Mike defended it? Are
you denying Mansfield said this? Who cares? That has nothing to do with the
point of the post. How have we been lied to? Please come up with an actual
point not just a wisecrack next time.
> > Apparently they made an exception to the "give them a chance to convert
> > before we kill them" rule regarding the Americans in the World Trade Center.
> >
>
> Apparently, the United States government made an exception in defending the
> country after Osamas declaration of WAR, and his previous attack on the WTC.
>
I'm pretty sure Mike, as well as myself, or anybody else who doesn't hate this
country blames Clinton for his inaction in all things terrorist. What's your
point? You're trying to counter the point that Islam is not a religion of peace
by mentioning the previous terrorist attacks conducted by Muslims. Genius. You
must have voted for Hillary.
> > It's amazing to me that many Americans still delude themselves with the myth
> >
> > that islam is a religion of peace.
>
> It's amazing to me that anyone still deludes themselves with the myth of
> religion.
What do your religious views have to do with Mike's post about Islam NOT being a
religion of peace? Its of little consequence whether or not you believe in
anything. Although you do strike me as one of those atheists who are atheists
merely to be cool or the elitist attitude. Thats why you say condescending one
liners like the one above. Either way, IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH
MIKE'S POINT!
> > They refuse to believe that islam makes
> > no distinction between women & children and military targets.
>
> No women or children have died in Iraq. Also, no women or children were killed
> in Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
There probably have been some in Iraq, of course. Collateral damage is
definitely the same thing as targeting them, right? Dumbass. I also think its
a fantastic argument to bring up something that the United States did before
most of us were even born. What's your point? That Islam is a religion of
peace because the US dropped an A-bomb on civilians sixty years ago? You can't
stay on topic. Are you a Kennedy or something?
> > They do not
> > want to believe that islam gives infidels (which is any non-muslim) only two
> >
> > choices: convert to islam or be killed.
>
> They do not want to believe that Christians killed hundreds of thousands, only
> two choices: convert to Christianity or be killed.
>
Wow, now you're going even further back. How does this have anything to do with
what we're talking about? Are you talking about the Crusades or what? Do you
actually believe that's why we attack people today? Clarify.
> > The blame America first crowd is so
> > busy bashing America that they deny that this is a fundamental tenet of
> > islam - not just of radical islamofascists.
>
> The blame America first crowd is growing rather large. Apparently 50+ years of
> self-serving dominance over the Middle East has had an effect.
>
Nice non-sequitor to save yourself from having to actually say something
meaningful. Nonetheless, I wouldn't expect any less of you at this point.
> > So, fuck you very much but I decline your offer to convert to islam.
>
> I also decline.
>
First intelligent thing you've said this post. Your answer surprises me though.
Rory
>
>
_______________________________________________________________
Block Lists, Favorites, and more - http://www.recpoker.com
BeaForoni
OK I convert. Allahy, Allahy ox in free. Or something like that
BeaForoni
OK I convert. Allahy, Allahy ox in free. Or something like that
Irish Mike
I don't listen to Limbaugh for the same reason I don't listen to people like
you. Neither of you can stay on point.
Irish Mike
"Bryan Kimmes" <bki...@702com.net> wrote in message
news:1157273911$863...@recpoker.com...
bonkey
> I also decline.
>
> Bryan Kimmes
Why should you decline, you just got finished defending EVERY THING THEY
SAID.
--
Bonkey
"There is an old proverb that says just about whatever you want it to."
------
looking for a better newsgroup-reader? - www.recgroups.com
RMHisCOOL
off-topic while doing nothing to counter Mike's point that Islam is not a
religion of peace. Although I did learn that targeting women and children is
alright because of what the US did sixty years ago. I did not know that. But I
agree with you.
Rory
On Sep 3 2006 9:21 AM, bonkey wrote:
> On Sep 3 2006 3:58 AM, Bryan Kimmes wrote:
>
>
> > I also decline.
> >
> > Bryan Kimmes
>
> Why should you decline, you just got finished defending EVERY THING THEY
> SAID.
>
> --
> Bonkey
>
> "There is an old proverb that says just about whatever you want it to."
_______________________________________________________________
The Largest Online Poker Community - http://www.recpoker.com
georgewv...@yahoo.com
> I don't listen to Limbaugh
But that doesn't stop you from constantly quoting his spew on this
forum.
I guess Irish Mike is just too lazy to convert to the fucked up
religion he follows now to some other fucked up religion.
RMHisCOOL
international acts of terrorism to back up your snide remark? A few abortion
clinic killings (a tragedy indeed) which were actually perpetrated by EXTREMISTS
is not on the scale of the things perpetrated by Muslims on a regular basis.
Now I am very tolerant of other religions. I have no problem with Muslims. My
problem is that although it's intended to be a religion of peace (like most are)
it is the one most misguided, misquoted and misused. It is so bad that you
can't call it the religion of peace anymore as it used to cause so much terror.
In summation, I am not prejudiced against Islam, but I think you have to be
weary of it as a whole these days. That's very unfortunate for PRACTICING
Muslims (who actually follow the beliefs), but it is the reality of the
situation. Its a similar situation to the one I found while deployed in
Afghanistan. You feel sorry for the kids but half of them end up sketching the
base, etc, setting off IEDs and helping out those that want to kill you that you
have to be cautious and suspicious of everyone. Again, unfortunate to the
innocent, but necessary for survival.
Rory
_______________________________________________________________
Bob
RMHisCOOL wrote:
> To be slightly more accurate bonkey, he just got finished rambling completely
> off-topic while doing nothing to counter Mike's point that Islam is not a
> religion of peace. Although I did learn that targeting women and children is
> alright because of what the US did sixty years ago. I did not know that. But I
> agree with you.
>
Bryan's post wasn't a ramble, it was a parody of Mike's post. I don't
think it was an especially good one, but if you're responding to it
point by point I think you're missing his intent.
- Bob T.
DFSPON
Evangelicals on Steroids. Its inevitable that some of them will try to
nuke us with either a dirty bomb or worse (an actual nuclear weapon). I
hope if that happens our President has the courage to destroy Mecca and
any other Islamic City that contributed to the Holocaust. I think we
know who they are.
DFSPON
Bryan Kimmes
On Sep 3 2006 6:35 AM, RMHisCOOL wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 3 2006 4:58 AM, Bryan Kimmes wrote:
>
> >
> > On Sep 3 2006 2:31 AM, Irish Mike wrote:
> >
> > > Following is a cut & paste from a CNN story today. Al Queada is graciously
> > >
> > > inviting all Americans to convert to islam - or else.
> > >
> > > "We invite all Americans and believers to Islam, whatever their role and
> > > status in Bush and Blair's world order," Gadahn says. "Decide today,
> > > because
> > >
> > > today could be your last day."
> >
> > "We invite all Arabs to Democracy, whatever their roles in their current
> > governments may be." W Says. "Decide today, because tomorrow you might be
> > building Nukes."
>
> Way to attribute quotes for something that doesn't exist in order to slant it
> whichever way suits you. Spoken like a true liberal. I can't even respond to
> this because its so idiotic.
Ok, you got me, this is not a direct quote. But just as people like Gadahn makes
statements like this to rally the Muslims, W tells lies and invents WMD boogymen
to strike fear into the American people.
Fortunately, a good majority of American people are smart, now when the Oil Boys
say something, they consider the source.
> >
> > > "Mansfield, who is a writer and corporate adviser on the Middle East,
> > > Islam
> > > and terrorism, said the time reference could indicate an attack is near.
> > > Muslims believe that non-believers should be given a chance to convert
> > > before they are attacked."
> >
> > "Irish Mike, who is an avid Rush Limbaugh listener, can be lied to
> > repeatedly
> > by
> > the self-serving leaders, yet still follow them blindly, and attempt to
> > defend
> > the indefensible."
> >
> Elaborate please. What is indefensible? And how has Mike defended it? Are
> you denying Mansfield said this? Who cares? That has nothing to do with the
> point of the post. How have we been lied to? Please come up with an actual
> point not just a wisecrack next time.
This is not the first time Irish Mike has posted. He has tried to defend the
indefensible many times.
'How have we been lied to?'
Maybe we should list the times the Bush administration has told the truth, it
would save some time.
>
> > > Apparently they made an exception to the "give them a chance to convert
> > > before we kill them" rule regarding the Americans in the World Trade
> > > Center.
> > >
> >
> > Apparently, the United States government made an exception in defending the
> > country after Osamas declaration of WAR, and his previous attack on the WTC.
> >
> I'm pretty sure Mike, as well as myself, or anybody else who doesn't hate this
> country blames Clinton for his inaction in all things terrorist. What's your
> point? You're trying to counter the point that Islam is not a religion of
> peace
> by mentioning the previous terrorist attacks conducted by Muslims. Genius.
> You
> must have voted for Hillary.
There you go again, "anyone who doesn't hate the country", this sort of
statement is running out of gas. As for Clinton, yes Osama should have been
dealt with long ago, but give me inaction over counter-productive actions any
day.
>
> > > It's amazing to me that many Americans still delude themselves with the
> > > myth
> > >
> > > that islam is a religion of peace.
> >
> > It's amazing to me that anyone still deludes themselves with the myth of
> > religion.
>
> What do your religious views have to do with Mike's post about Islam NOT being
> a
> religion of peace? Its of little consequence whether or not you believe in
> anything. Although you do strike me as one of those atheists who are atheists
> merely to be cool or the elitist attitude. That's why you say condescending
> one
> liners like the one above. Either way, IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH
> MIKE'S POINT!
There is no such thing as a 'religion of peace'.
>
> > > They refuse to believe that islam makes
> > > no distinction between women & children and military targets.
> >
> > No women or children have died in Iraq. Also, no women or children were
> > killed
> > in Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
>
> There probably have been some in Iraq, of course. Collateral damage is
> definitely the same thing as targeting them, right? Dumbass. I also think
> its
> a fantastic argument to bring up something that the United States did before
> most of us were even born. What's your point? That Islam is a religion of
> peace because the US dropped an A-bomb on civilians sixty years ago? You
> can't
> stay on topic. Are you a Kennedy or something?
Nobody has committed more war crimes than the United States, and I'm getting
sick of us pointing the finger at everyone else.
>
>
> > > They do not
> > > want to believe that islam gives infidels (which is any non-muslim) only
> > > two
> > >
> > > choices: convert to islam or be killed.
> >
> > They do not want to believe that Christians killed hundreds of thousands,
> > only
> > two choices: convert to Christianity or be killed.
> >
> Wow, now you're going even further back. How does this have anything to do
> with
> what we're talking about? Are you talking about the Crusades or what? Do you
> actually believe that's why we attack people today? Clarify.
I'm not sure why we are attacking the people we are attacking today. I'd love to
know. Perhaps it is oil? Or is it just the destruction of Islam that W has in
mind? Oh i'm sorry I forgot, weapons of mass destruction.....
You really can't figure out how the bloody, violent, savage history of
Christianity pertains to this topic?
>
> > > The blame America first crowd is so
> > > busy bashing America that they deny that this is a fundamental tenet of
> > > islam - not just of radical islamofascists.
> >
> > The blame America first crowd is growing rather large. Apparently 50+ years
> > of
> > self-serving dominance over the Middle East has had an effect.
> >
> Nice non-sequitor to save yourself from having to actually say something
> meaningful. Nonetheless, I wouldn't expect any less of you at this point.
It is very meaningful, it is the cause of terrorism. If we weren't bullying
everyone and calling all the shots in the Middle East, none of this would have
happened.
"Oh but of course it still would have because they hate freedom, or Islam is a
violent religion........" get a clue, and answer this question.
If the United States never set foot in the Middle East(I'm speaking of military
forces), does September 11th still happen?
Bryan
Bryan Kimmes
On Sep 3 2006 9:04 AM, RMHisCOOL wrote:
> Yes, Christianity is equally fucked up. Ok. Evidence please? Any
> international acts of terrorism to back up your snide remark?
Does the invasion of Iraq count? I mean it seems every move Al-Quida makes is
because of their religion. Doesn't that mean every most the West makes can be
blamed on Christianity?
> is not on the scale of the things perpetrated by Muslims on a regular basis.
> Now I am very tolerant of other religions. I have no problem with Muslims.
The terrorist operate under the flag of Islam to garner support, the real reason
they want to destory the West is because the West has been dominating them for
decades.
> My
> problem is that although it's intended to be a religion of peace (like most
> are)
> it is the one most misguided, misquoted and misused. It is so bad that you
> can't call it the religion of peace anymore as it used to cause so much
> terror.
What % of the followers of Islam are also terrorits?
Bryan
_______________________________________________________________
* New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
RJ
I will convert to nothing thank you !! Too many damb wars, deaths etc all
because of religious beliefs of the extreme !!!
http://www.holdemplaymates.com/
On Sep 3 2006 2:31 AM, Irish Mike wrote:
_______________________________________________________________
William Coleman
"RMHisCOOL" <4308...@recpoker.com> wrote in message
news:1157283342$863...@recpoker.com...
:
:
: On Sep 3 2006 4:58 AM, Bryan Kimmes wrote:
:
: >
: > On Sep 3 2006 2:31 AM, Irish Mike wrote:
: >
: > > Following is a cut & paste from a CNN story today. Al Queada is
graciously
: > > inviting all Americans to convert to islam - or else.
: > >
: > > "We invite all Americans and believers to Islam, whatever their role
and
: > > status in Bush and Blair's world order," Gadahn says. "Decide today,
because
: > > today could be your last day."
: >
: > "We invite all Arabs to Democracy, whatever their roles in their current
: > governments may be." W Says. "Decide today, because tomorrow you might
be
: > building Nukes."
:
: Way to attribute quotes for something that doesn't exist in order to slant
it
: whichever way suits you. Spoken like a true liberal. I can't even
respond to
: this because its so idiotic.
Do you understand written English??? Obviously not. Do you understand the
significance of this sentence --
"Decide today, because tomorrow you might be building Nukes."
The significance is that the Bush Crime Family will likely attack Iran, and
possibly other Muslim countries, on the pretext that they are developing
nuclear weapons. There is no evidence that Iran has a nuclear weapons
program. If they do, they are at least ten years away from having a
functioning nuclear weapon. There is no possible justification for an
attack on Iran at this time, yet it is obvious Bush plans to do so before he
leaves office. It will be Iraq Redux, except Iran has a formidable
military, unlike Saddam's broken down military.
Look, shit for brains, Iran's sock puppet, Hizbollah, withstood the full
onslaught of the mighty Israeli military machine for a month and fought the
Israelis to a standstill. If you think Iran itself will be a pushover, you
are beyond clueless.
I suggest you do some research to find out exactly who the Persians are.
They are not Arabs. Persians are Aryans. You know, Aryans -- Hitler's
Master Race. Please do not confuse Hitler's Master Race with Sand Niggers.
I also suggest you study some military history. When you do, you will find
that the Persians are the baddest motherfuckers of them all. Man for man,
and armed with comparable weapons technology, the Persians would slaughter
both the Jews and the Americans.
You idiots who want to attack Iran have no clue how disasterous the
consequences will be. The consequences will make the Iraq War look like a
minor bit of unpleasantness.
: > > "Mansfield, who is a writer and corporate adviser on the Middle East,
Islam
: > > and terrorism, said the time reference could indicate an attack is
near.
: > > Muslims believe that non-believers should be given a chance to convert
: > > before they are attacked."
: >
: > "Irish Mike, who is an avid Rush Limbaugh listener, can be lied to
repeatedly
: > by
: > the self-serving leaders, yet still follow them blindly, and attempt to
defend
: > the indefensible."
: >
: Elaborate please. What is indefensible?
The entire foreign policy of the Bush Crime Family, which constitutes the
greatest foreign policy disaster in the history of the USA.
: And how has Mike defended it? Are
: you denying Mansfield said this? Who cares? That has nothing to do with
the
: point of the post. How have we been lied to?
OMFG!!! You really are brain dead. I could list hundreds of definitively
documented lies of the Bush Crime Family, but you would just dismiss it as
liberal propaganda. Do some research. Turn off Rush Limbaugh. Get in
contact with the real world. Stop living in your Nazi fantasy world.
: Please come up with an actual point not just a wisecrack next time.
Apparently you think a bullshit remark like this can refute a cogent
comment.
: > > Apparently they made an exception to the "give them a chance to
convert
: > > before we kill them" rule regarding the Americans in the World Trade
Center.
: > >
: >
: > Apparently, the United States government made an exception in defending
the
: > country after Osamas declaration of WAR, and his previous attack on the
WTC.
: >
: I'm pretty sure Mike, as well as myself, or anybody else who doesn't hate
this
: country blames Clinton for his inaction in all things terrorist.
I am pretty sure you are a complete idiot or a mindless Clinton basher who
willfully lies about the greatest President of the last sixty years. The
lie that Clinton took no effective action against Islamofascists has been
definitively debunked by Urban Legends, commonly called Snopes.
Here, educate yourself and stop lying --
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.htm
Claim: The Clinton administration failed to track down the perpetrators of
several terrorist attacks against Americans.
Status: False.
Example: [Collected on the Internet, 2001]
After the 1993 World Trade Centre bombing, which killed six and injured
1,000, President Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted
down and punished.
After the 1995 bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed five US military
personnel, President Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted
down and punished.
After the 1996 al-Khobar towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, which killed 19 and
injured 200 US military personnel, President Clinton promised that those
responsible would be hunted down and punished.
After the 1998 bombing of US embassies in Africa, which killed 257 and
injured 5,000, President Clinton promised that those responsible would be
hunted down and punished.
After the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, which killed 17 and injured three US
sailors, President Clinton promised that those responsible would be hunted
down and punished.
Maybe if Mr Clinton had kept his promise, an estimated 7,000 more people
would be alive today.
Origins: In chronological order:
On 26 February 1993, a car loaded with 1,200 pounds of explosives blew up in
a parking garage under the World Trade Center, killing six people and
injuring about a thousand others. The blast did not, as its planners
intended, bring down the towers - that was finally accomplished by flying
two hijacked airliners into the twin towers on the morning of 11 September
2001.
Four followers of the Egyptian cleric Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman were captured,
convicted of the World Trade Center bombing in March 1994, and sentenced to
240 years in prison each. The purported mastermind of the plot, Ramzi Ahmed
Yousef, was captured in 1995, convicted of the bombing in November 1997, and
also sentenced to 240 years in prison. One additional suspect fled the U.S.
and is believed to be living in Baghdad.
On 13 November 1995, a bomb was set off in a van parked in front of an
American-run military training center in the Saudi Arabian capital of
Riyadh, killing five Americans and two Indians. Saudi Arabian authorities
arrested four Saudi nationals whom they claim confessed to the bombings, but
U.S. officials were denied permission to see or question the suspects before
they were convicted and beheaded in May 1996.
On 25 June 1996, a booby-trapped truck loaded with 5,000 pounds of
explosives was exploded outside the Khobar Towers apartment complex which
housed United States military personnel in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, killing
nineteen Americans and wounding about three hundred others. Once again, the
U.S. investigation was hampered by the refusal of Saudi officials to allow
the FBI to question suspects.
On 21 June 2001, just before the American statute of limitations would have
expired, a federal grand jury in Alexandria, Virginia, indicted thirteen
Saudis and an unidentified Lebanese chemist for the Khobar Towers bombing.
The suspects remain in Saudi custody, beyond the reach of the American
justice system. (Saudi Arabia has no extradition treaty with the U.S.)
On 7 August 1998, powerful car bombs exploded minutes apart outside the
United States embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania,
killing 224 people and wounding about 5,000 others. Four participants with
ties to Osama bin Laden were captured, convicted in U.S. federal court, and
sentenced to life in prison without parole in October 2001. Fourteen other
suspects indicted in the case remain at large, and three more are fighting
extradition in London.
On 12 October 2000, two suicide bombers detonated an explosives-laden skiff
next to the USS Cole while it was refueling in Aden, Yemen, blasting a hole
in the ship that killed 17 sailors and injured 37 others. No suspects have
yet been arrested or indicted. The investigation has been hampered by the
refusal of Yemini officials to allow FBI agents access to Yemeni nationals
and other suspects in custody in Yemen.
(The USS Cole bombing occurred one month before the 2000 presidential
election, so even under the best of circumstances it was unlikely that the
investigation could have been completed before the end of President
Clinton's term of office three months later.)
In August 1998, President Clinton ordered missile strikes against targets in
Afghanistan in an effort to hit Osama bin Laden, who had been linked to the
embassy bombings in Africa (and was later connected to the attack on the USS
Cole). The missiles reportedly missed bin Laden by a few hours, and Clinton
was widely criticized by many who claimed he had ordered the strikes
primarily to draw attention away from the Monica Lewinsky scandal. As John
F. Harris wrote in The Washington Post:
In August 1998, when [Clinton] ordered missile strikes in an effort to kill
Osama bin Laden, there was widespread speculation - from such people as Sen.
Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) - that he was acting precipitously to draw attention
away from the Monica S. Lewinsky scandal, then at full boil. Some said he
was mistaken for personalizing the terrorism struggle so much around bin
Laden. And when he ordered the closing of Pennsylvania Avenue in front of
the White House after domestic terrorism in Oklahoma City, some Republicans
accused him of hysteria.
. . . the federal budget on anti-terror activities tripled during Clinton's
watch, to about $6.7 billion. After the effort to kill bin Laden with
missiles in August 1998 failed - he had apparently left a training camp in
Afghanistan a few hours earlier - recent news reports have detailed numerous
other instances, as late as December 2000, when Clinton was on the verge of
unleashing the military again. In each case, the White House chose not to
act because of uncertainty that intelligence was good enough to find bin
Laden, and concern that a failed attack would only enhance his stature in
the Arab world.
. . . people maintain Clinton should have adapted Bush's policy promising th
at regimes that harbor terrorism will be treated as severely as terrorists
themselves, and threatening to evict the Taliban from power in Afghanistan
unless leaders meet his demands to produce bin Laden and associates. But
Clinton aides said such a policy - potentially involving a full-scale war in
central Asia - was not plausible before politics the world over became
transformed by one of history's most lethal acts of terrorism.
Clinton's former national security adviser, Samuel R. Berger . . . said
there [was] little prospect . . . that Pakistan would have helped the United
States wage war against bin Laden or the Taliban in 1998, even after such
outrages as the bombing of U.S. embassies overseas.
Update: In January 2004 a version of the 2001 e-mail with "BUSH COVERED
IT!" inserted after each entry began to be circulated on the Internet. Must
be an election year.
Last updated: 27 January 2004
: What's your point?
: You're trying to counter the point that Islam is not a religion of peace
: by mentioning the previous terrorist attacks conducted by Muslims.
Genius. You
: must have voted for Hillary.
If she does run for President, she will be far and away the best qualified
candidate to run for President since Adlai Stevenson.
: > > It's amazing to me that many Americans still delude themselves with
the myth
: > > that islam is a religion of peace.
: >
: > It's amazing to me that anyone still deludes themselves with the myth of
: > religion.
:
: What do your religious views have to do with Mike's post about Islam NOT
being a
: religion of peace? Its of little consequence whether or not you believe
in
: anything. Although you do strike me as one of those atheists who are
atheists
: merely to be cool or the elitist attitude. Thats why you say
condescending one
: liners like the one above. Either way, IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO
WITH
: MIKE'S POINT!
:
: > > They refuse to believe that islam makes
: > > no distinction between women & children and military targets.
: >
: > No women or children have died in Iraq. Also, no women or children were
killed
: > in Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
:
: There probably have been some in Iraq, of course.
PROBABLY??? You are a submoron. Something on the order of 100,000 Iraqi
civilians have been killed in the Iraq War. Obviously, many of these were
women and children.
: Collateral damage is definitely the same thing as targeting them, right?
Collateral damage, my ass. That is the favorite excuse of war criminals and
their sycophants. Listen, genius, the U.S. military routinely dropped
500-pound bombs on residential neighborhoods in Fallujah. Since such
actions will forseeably kill innocent civilians, such actions constitute the
war crime of Collective Punishment. I look forward to the war crimes trials
of Bush, Cheney, and Rice.
: Dumbass.
Talking to yourself now?
: I also think its
: a fantastic argument to bring up something that the United States did
before
: most of us were even born.
It is a perfectly legitimate point. All you flag waving, patriotic song
singing Nazis who think the USA is pure and innocent need to look at the
U.S. war crimes during WW II. The firebombings of Dresden and Tokyo, as
well as the nuclear blasts at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, are clear, unambiguous
war crimes, now defined by the Geneva Conventions as Collective Punishment.
: What's your point? That Islam is a religion of
: peace because the US dropped an A-bomb on civilians sixty years ago?
Is this your concept of argumentation? To completely misrepresent your
opponent's argument? Apparently all you have got is strawman argumentation.
: You can't stay on topic. Are you a Kennedy or something?
And what would be wrong with that??? The Kennedys are political royalty.
Deal with it.
: > > They do not
: > > want to believe that islam gives infidels (which is any non-muslim)
only two
: > >
: > > choices: convert to islam or be killed.
: >
: > They do not want to believe that Christians killed hundreds of
thousands, only
: > two choices: convert to Christianity or be killed.
: >
: Wow, now you're going even further back.
What is wrong with going back in history??? To paraphrase Santayana --
Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
: How does this have anything to do with
: what we're talking about? Are you talking about the Crusades or what? Do
you
: actually believe that's why we attack people today? Clarify.
You fucking moron, the Roman Catholic Church has killed 100,000,000 people
for the crime of disagreeing with Catholic Dogma. Did I mention that the
Roman Catholic Priesthood has, for centuries, operated an international ring
of pedophiles and child molesters?
Anyone who condemns Islamofascism, without also condemning the excesses of
the Catholic Church, has a huge blind spot.
: > > The blame America first crowd is so
: > > busy bashing America that they deny that this is a fundamental tenet
of
: > > islam - not just of radical islamofascists.
We do not blame America first. We accurately point out that events do not
happen in a vacuum. Actions have consequences. The proximate causes for
the 9/11 attacks were the presence of American troops in Muslim countries,
especially Saudi Arabia, and U.S. support for Israel.
The root cause of the 9/11 attacks are people who drive around in 10-mpg
SUVs, sporting bumper stickers like "These colors don't run" and "United We
Stand".
: > The blame America first crowd is growing rather large. Apparently 50+
years of
: > self-serving dominance over the Middle East has had an effect.
: >
: Nice non-sequitor to save yourself from having to actually say something
: meaningful.
He said something meaningful. You have not. Nor have any of your comments
shown even a glimmer of intelligence.
: Nonetheless, I wouldn't expect any less of you at this point.
:
: > > So, fuck you very much but I decline your offer to convert to islam.
: >
: > I also decline.
: >
: First intelligent thing you've said this post. Your answer surprises me
though.
It surprises you that he doesn't want to convert to Islam??? Believe it or
not, it is a complete myth that liberals are supporters or sycophants of
Islamofascism.
William Coleman (ramashiva)
Department of Agitation, Propaganda, and Demagoguery
________________________
Please visit my weblog, Ramashiva Rules --
http://www.ramashivarules.blogspot.com
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IESOUS CHRISTOS THEOU YIOS SOTER (corrupted version)
IESOUS CHRISTOS THEOS YIOS SOTERES (true version)
Sell all your possessions, give the money to the poor, and come, follow me.
-- Jesus Christ
God told me to smite Al Qaeda, so I smote them. Then God told me to smite
Saddam, so I smote him also.
-- George W. Bush, Liberator of Afghanistan and Iraq
William Coleman
"Irish Mike" <mjo...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:1nwKg.23496$gY6....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
: You must have the IQ of a door knob. On second thought, that's an insult
: door knobs every where. Let's just say you are a dim-witted, and
: kill-filed, liberal twit. Bye-bye.
This is always Irish Mike's response when a poster chews him up into little
pieces and spits him out. Irish Mike lacks the intelligence to actually
engage in debate. All he has is to tell his critic that he is stupid and
killfiled.
What a truely worthless piece of dog shit Irish Mike is.
William Coleman
: "Irish Mike, who is an avid Rush Limbaugh listener"
:
: I don't listen to Limbaugh for the same reason I don't listen to people
like
: you. Neither of you can stay on point.
Mike, the only point you have is the one on top of your pointy little head.
William Coleman
: Yes, Christianity is equally fucked up. Ok. Evidence please?
Two points are all that is needed --
The Roman Catholic Church has killed 100,000,000 people for the crime of
disagreeing with Catholic dogma. The people killed were the true
Christians -- the Bogomils, the Cathars, etc.
For centuries, the Roman Catholic Priesthood has operated an international
conspiracy of child molesters and pedophiles. The coddling and protection
of these child molesters goes from the Bishops to the Archbishops to the
Cardinals to the Pope. The evidence is definitive and indisputable. Deal
with it.
: Any international acts of terrorism to back up your snide remark?
Why would he need that in order to show that Christianity is just as fucked
up as Islam? Are acts of terrorism the only way in which a religion can be
fucked up? And you do understand, don't you, that blaming an entire
religion for the acts of a few of its members is the mark of an idiot?
: A few abortion
: clinic killings (a tragedy indeed) which were actually perpetrated by
EXTREMISTS
Newsflash!!! The Islamofascists who committed the 9/11 atrocities were also
extremists.
: is not on the scale of the things perpetrated by Muslims on a regular
basis.
Apparently you do not understand that the Roman Catholic Church killed
millions of people on a regular basis for disagreeing with Catholic Dogma
for CENTURIES. To the tune of 100,000,000 total true Christians slaughtered
by the Pope and his butchers.
: Now I am very tolerant of other religions. I have no problem with
Muslims. My
: problem is that although it's intended to be a religion of peace (like
most are)
: it is the one most misguided, misquoted and misused.
Oh please. You know exactly nothing about Islam. Don't show your
ignorance. Please do not think you know anything about Islam because you
have read some bigoted hate tract like those recommended by your fellow
Nazi, Irish Mike.
: It is so bad that you
: can't call it the religion of peace anymore as it used to cause so much
terror.
You are an idiot. The fact that some people who call themselves Muslims
commit terrorist acts does not mean Islam is not a religion of peace,
anymore that the abortion clinic bombings and murders of abortion doctors
mean that Christianity is not a religion of peace.
: In summation, I am not prejudiced against Islam, but I think you have to
be
: weary of it as a whole these days.
I am very weary of Nazis like you, Irish Mike, and DFSPON spewing bigotry
and lies about Islam, a religion that none of you know anything about.
That's very unfortunate for PRACTICING
: Muslims (who actually follow the beliefs), but it is the reality of the
: situation. Its a similar situation to the one I found while deployed in
: Afghanistan. You feel sorry for the kids but half of them end up
sketching the
: base, etc, setting off IEDs and helping out those that want to kill you
that you
: have to be cautious and suspicious of everyone.
And exactly what the fuck would you do if an infidel imperialist army
invaded and occupied your country??? Greet them with kisses and flowers???
You Nazis are such fucking idiots, it is absolutely unbelievable.
William Coleman
"DFSPON" <DS...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1157307405.9...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
: Muslim Jihadists are too ignorant and stupid to talk to.
As are you and your fellow Islamophobic Nazis.
: They are like Evangelicals on Steroids.
So are you, numbnuts.
: Its inevitable that some of them will try to
: nuke us with either a dirty bomb or worse (an actual nuclear weapon).
Yes, it is inevitable if the USA continues to follow the futile policy of
defeating terrorism by killing all the terrorists.
YOU CANNOT DEFEAT TERRORISM BY KILLING ALL THE TERRORISTS.
YOU CAN DEFEAT TERRORISM BY REMOVING THE ROOT CAUSES OF TERRORISM.
: I hope if that happens our President has the courage to destroy Mecca and
: any other Islamic City that contributed to the Holocaust.
Huh? What Islamic cities contributed to the Holocaust? I will give you
that most Islamic countries and most Muslims were allied with the Third
Reich during World War II. That is one of the reasons I consider the term
"Islamofascist" accurate. I was not aware any Islamic cities were involved
in the Holocaust. Please elaborate.
: I think we know who they are.
I think you know nothing at all beyond the fact that your head is rammed so
far up your ass that your anatomy is the topological equivalent of a Klein's
Bottle.
DFSPON
William Coleman wrote:
>
> YOU CANNOT DEFEAT TERRORISM BY KILLING ALL THE TERRORISTS.
>
> YOU CAN DEFEAT TERRORISM BY REMOVING THE ROOT CAUSES OF TERRORISM.
>
You MORON. What should we do? Convert to Islam. If you think the Root
Cause is Israel, you really have your head up your ass. But we already
knew that. Oh by the way Dumb Ass, what is your solution? Dissolve
Israel??? You Clown. Even if that happened, which it never will, the
Muslims would come up with some other excuse.
> : I hope if that happens our President has the courage to destroy Mecca and
> : any other Islamic City that contributed to the Holocaust.
>
> Huh? What Islamic cities contributed to the Holocaust? > -- Jesus Christ
>
YOU DICK HEAD. I was referring to the NEXT HOLOCAUST. A MUSLIM DIRTY
BOMB or WORSE. Boy are you STUPID.
DFSPON
Bryan Kimmes
On Sep 4 2006 3:57 PM, DFSPON wrote:
> William Coleman wrote:
> >
> > YOU CANNOT DEFEAT TERRORISM BY KILLING ALL THE TERRORISTS.
> >
> > YOU CAN DEFEAT TERRORISM BY REMOVING THE ROOT CAUSES OF TERRORISM.
> >
>
> You MORON. What should we do? Convert to Islam. If you think the Root
> Cause is Israel, you really have your head up your ass. But we already
> knew that. Oh by the way Dumb Ass, what is your solution? Dissolve
> Israel??? You Clown. Even if that happened, which it never will, the
> Muslims would come up with some other excuse.
They really don't need to come up with an excuse, we have given them plenty. For
decades the United States has pushed around the Middle East, thrown our weight
around, and been a 'School-yard bully'.
Of do you really believe 9/11 was an 'unprovoked attack'?
Bryan
>
> > : I hope if that happens our President has the courage to destroy Mecca and
> > : any other Islamic City that contributed to the Holocaust.
> >
> > Huh? What Islamic cities contributed to the Holocaust? > -- Jesus Christ
> >
>
> YOU DICK HEAD. I was referring to the NEXT HOLOCAUST. A MUSLIM DIRTY
> BOMB or WORSE. Boy are you STUPID.
>
> DFSPON
_______________________________________________________________
William Coleman
:
: William Coleman wrote:
: >
: > YOU CANNOT DEFEAT TERRORISM BY KILLING ALL THE TERRORISTS.
: >
: > YOU CAN DEFEAT TERRORISM BY REMOVING THE ROOT CAUSES OF TERRORISM.
: >
:
: You MORON. What should we do? Convert to Islam.
I never said anything like that. You are a liar of the worst sort. You are
so mendacious that you cannot even tell the truth about what I think or say.
: If you think the Root Cause is Israel, you really have your head up your
ass.
Nope. Never said that either. Stop lying about my views on this subject.
I have repeatedly stated precisely what the root causes of terrorism are.
Of course, you are simply too dishonest to quote me on the root causes of
terrorism. I wonder why you cannot even tell the truth about what I have
said.
: But we already knew that.
You really think such juvenile insults are effective argumentation???
: Oh by the way Dumb Ass,
I have two words for you -- 200+ IQ.
: what is your solution?
I have stated my solution repeatedly. I will not state it again. I refuse
to endlessly explain the obvious to the obtuse.
: Dissolve Israel???
I never suggested any such thing. Stop lying about what I have said.
: You Clown. Even if that happened, which it never will,
Don't be so sure about that. If the USA and Israel continue with current
policies of trying to destroy terrorism by killing all the terrorists,
Israel will most certainly be utterly destroyed.
: the Muslims would come up with some other excuse.
You are a total joke. You know absolutely nothing about Islam. Yet you
confidently make idiotic predictions based on the Islamophobic lies you spew
on this newsgroup.
: > : I hope if that happens our President has the courage to destroy Mecca
and
: > : any other Islamic City that contributed to the Holocaust.
: >
: > Huh? What Islamic cities contributed to the Holocaust?
: >
:
: YOU DICK HEAD. I was referring to the NEXT HOLOCAUST. A MUSLIM DIRTY
: BOMB or WORSE. Boy are you STUPID.
Apparently you lack basic writing skills. Nothing in what you said suggests
that you were referring to the NEXT Holocaust, which hasn't happened yet,
and most likely never will. Here is what you said --
"I hope if that happens our President has the courage to destroy Mecca and
any other Islamic City that contributed to the Holocaust."
I seriously do not see how I am supposed to infer that you are talking about
the NEXT Holocaust, rather than the historical Holocaust of the 20th
century. Learn how to write clear concise prose. Then we will not have
these communication problems in the future.
William Coleman
:
: On Sep 4 2006 3:57 PM, DFSPON wrote:
:
: > William Coleman wrote:
: > >
: > > YOU CANNOT DEFEAT TERRORISM BY KILLING ALL THE TERRORISTS.
: > >
: > > YOU CAN DEFEAT TERRORISM BY REMOVING THE ROOT CAUSES OF TERRORISM.
: > >
: >
: > You MORON. What should we do? Convert to Islam. If you think the Root
: > Cause is Israel, you really have your head up your ass. But we already
: > knew that. Oh by the way Dumb Ass, what is your solution? Dissolve
: > Israel??? You Clown. Even if that happened, which it never will, the
: > Muslims would come up with some other excuse.
:
: They really don't need to come up with an excuse, we have given them
plenty. For
: decades the United States has pushed around the Middle East, thrown our
weight
: around, and been a 'School-yard bully'.
:
: Of do you really believe 9/11 was an 'unprovoked attack'?
Of course he does. These Islamophobic nutcases will never, ever admit that
U.S. foreign policy was the proximate cause of the 9/11 attacks. They will
never, ever admit that Osama bin Laden had been warning us for years that
severe consequences would follow if we did not remove our infidel troops
from the Land of the Two Mosques.
Unfortunately for lying Islamophobes like Richard Sportsman, the historical
record of what Osama said and when is perfectly clear. He warned us for
years to get the fuck out of Saudi Arabia. The idiots running our foreign
policy discounted Osama's ability to punish us for ignoring his repeated
warnings.
The idiots running our foreign policy have been shown to be wrong. By the
way, Clinton is more culpable than Bush for 9/11, because he ignored Osama's
warnings for a much longer period of time than Bush.
FL Turbo
wrote:
>
>
>
>On Sep 3 2006 9:04 AM, RMHisCOOL wrote:
>
>> Yes, Christianity is equally fucked up. Ok. Evidence please? Any
>> international acts of terrorism to back up your snide remark?
>
>Does the invasion of Iraq count? I mean it seems every move Al-Quida makes is
>because of their religion. Doesn't that mean every most the West makes can be
>blamed on Christianity?
>
To put the answer to your question in the most idiot-resistant form
possible:
No.
Whatever you may believe about the invasion of Iraq, it was never,
ever advocated in terms of any specific religion.
>
>> is not on the scale of the things perpetrated by Muslims on a regular basis.
>> Now I am very tolerant of other religions. I have no problem with Muslims.
>
>The terrorist operate under the flag of Islam to garner support, the real reason
>they want to destory the West is because the West has been dominating them for
>decades.
>
You need to ponder the following items.
Dahab, Egypt April 2006- Bombings at resort area.
Bombay, India July 2005- 190 people killed in railway bombing.
Amman, Jordan November 2005- Hotel bombing.
Beslan September 2004 330 people murdered, half of them childeren.
That leaves out Thailand, where bombs were recently exploded all over
the country.
>> My
>> problem is that although it's intended to be a religion of peace (like most
>> are)
>> it is the one most misguided, misquoted and misused. It is so bad that you
>> can't call it the religion of peace anymore as it used to cause so much
>> terror.
>
>What % of the followers of Islam are also terrorits?
>
>Bryan
>
There you have the $64 million dollar question.
Ultimately, the only lasting solution to the problem of Islamic
Fascism is when the great majority of Muslims will cease to tolerate
the small minority that causes all the terrorism.
The only thing that the average non-Muslim can do is to display Zero
tolerance for anyone still willing to make excuses for them.
Minor Glitch
> "Irish Mike" <mjo...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
> news:1nwKg.23496$gY6....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> : You must have the IQ of a door knob. On second thought, that's an insult
> to
> : door knobs every where. Let's just say you are a dim-witted, and
> : kill-filed, liberal twit. Bye-bye.
>
> This is always Irish Mike's response when a poster chews him up into little
> pieces and spits him out. Irish Mike lacks the intelligence to actually
> engage in debate. All he has is to tell his critic that he is stupid and
> killfiled.
>
Sort of like what Ramashiva does... great minds think alike...
-mg
_____________________________________________________________________
* kill-files, watch-lists, favorites, and more.. www.recgroups.com
Bob
FL Turbo wrote:
<snip>
> Ultimately, the only lasting solution to the problem of Islamic
> Fascism is when the great majority of Muslims will cease to tolerate
> the small minority that causes all the terrorism.
>
> The only thing that the average non-Muslim can do is to display Zero
> tolerance for anyone still willing to make excuses for them.
The problem with invading Muslim countries and overthrowing their
governments is that it makes the great majority of Muslims hate us more
than they hate terrorism. The majority of Muslim people worldwide
understood why we invaded Afghanistan - it was a direct response to the
9/11 attacks. Popular opinion in the Muslim world was extremely
favorable to the US until Bush invaded Iraq.
- Bob T.
PokerPaul
Islam. However, I have read 2 translations of the Qu'ran (sp?)...to
see if I could find where Allah (God) gives Muslims the authority to
engage in jihad (holy war) against non-Muslims.
There were no such passages in either translation that I read. In
fact, in one of the early chapters, the Qu'ran acknowledges Jews and
Christians as people of God. It acknowledges Moses and Jesus as fact.
If the Qu'ran states this, then why are Jews and Christians labeled
'infidels' simply because they do not follow the Muslim faith?
After reading these, I can only assume that radical Muslim Clerics have
twisted their holy book into words that help promote their own
political agenda.
Historically, there has been too much bloodshed in the name of
Religion. All of the world's major religions are peace-promoting,
including Islam.
I only hope that the terrorists become enlightened and understand their
faith well enough to understand that they will be spending eternity in
Hell for their atrocities.
I, too, decline the invitation to convert to Islam.
WuzYoungOnceToo
>
> The problem with invading Muslim countries and overthrowing their
> governments is that it makes the great majority of Muslims hate us more
> than they hate terrorism. The majority of Muslim people worldwide
> understood why we invaded Afghanistan - it was a direct response to the
> 9/11 attacks. Popular opinion in the Muslim world was extremely
> favorable to the US until Bush invaded Iraq.
I'd like to see your sources for these claims. I haven't chased the
issue down to any great degree myself, but I did happen across the
following:
fffurken
America is fighting terrorism by invading and occupying Iraq, except
perhaps the hitherto non-existent local terrorism that has been the
result.
The likes of American Mike would have us believe that just about every
Muslim is a Jihadist, of course anyone sensible knows that is utter
nonsense. If anything this report would highlight the amount of
"moderate" Muslims there are across the world but what does your common
sense answer to the following question ;
Are there more radicalised, anti-West Muslims in the world since the
invasion of Iraq?
Personally, I would imagine the answer to that question is undoubtedly
yes. But I guess the US military will just kill all of them too.
WuzYoungOnceToo
>
> I can't vouch for the authenticity of this source and I can't see how
> America is fighting terrorism by invading and occupying Iraq, except
> perhaps the hitherto non-existent local terrorism that has been the
> result.
>
> The likes of American Mike would have us believe that just about every
> Muslim is a Jihadist, of course anyone sensible knows that is utter
> nonsense. If anything this report would highlight the amount of
> "moderate" Muslims there are across the world but what does your common
> sense answer to the following question ;
>
> Are there more radicalised, anti-West Muslims in the world since the
> invasion of Iraq?
>
> Personally, I would imagine the answer to that question is undoubtedly
> yes.
You (and others) might well imagine a great many things. That doesn't
make them true. I don't know that it *isn't* true either. I just
would prefer some real evidence to gut hunches.
> But I guess the US military will just kill all of them too.
That's all well and good...but I fail to see how it addresses Bob's
claim that...
"Popular opinion in the Muslim world was extremely favorable to the US
until Bush invaded Iraq."
...which was all I was asking about.
Lou Krieger
>> "FL Turbo" <noe...@notime.com> wrote in message
>> news:63gtf2dr12v6e257d...@4ax.com...
Ultimately, the only lasting solution to the problem of Islamic Fascism is
when the great majority of Muslims will cease to tolerate the small minority
that causes all the terrorism. <<
Another solution might be the separation of church and state. An example is
Turkey. Though a predominantly Muslim country, there is complete separation
of church and state, and other religions live side by side with the Muslim
majority in a fairly harmonious society. I don't know if this is the sole
reason accounting for a much greater degree of tolerance in Turkey, but
Turkey stands as an example of a secular society that's predominantly
Muslim.
phlash74
PokerPaul wrote:
> I do not claim to be an expert of any kind, or to any degree, about
> Islam. However, I have read 2 translations of the Qu'ran (sp?)...to
> see if I could find where Allah (God) gives Muslims the authority to
> engage in jihad (holy war) against non-Muslims.
>
> There were no such passages in either translation that I read. In
> fact, in one of the early chapters, the Qu'ran acknowledges Jews and
> Christians as people of God. It acknowledges Moses and Jesus as fact.
> If the Qu'ran states this, then why are Jews and Christians labeled
> 'infidels' simply because they do not follow the Muslim faith?
>
> After reading these, I can only assume that radical Muslim Clerics have
> twisted their holy book into words that help promote their own
> political agenda.
Bingo. As has been done by leaders of virtually every church since the
dawn of time. It's pretty hard to take any "religious leader"
seriously when they cannot agree among themselves the meaning of their
holy scriptures.
> Historically, there has been too much bloodshed in the name of
> Religion. All of the world's major religions are peace-promoting,
> including Islam.
Kind of contradictory, don't you think? Peace-promoting religions
shedding blood of others and their own who disagree with the current
leaders? This is not to say that Jesus Christ, Abraham, and Mohammed
were promoters of violence. Only to point out that many people have
committed unspeakable atrocities while claiming to represent them.
> I only hope that the terrorists become enlightened and understand their
> faith well enough to understand that they will be spending eternity in
> Hell for their atrocities.
<insert something about flying pigs here>
Bob
Hmm... that was off the top of my head, based on my recollection of
post-9/11 world public opinion reports. Just now I found this:
http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=247
but it's not clear to me that the numbers are very definitive. In some
Muslim countries, it looks like public opinions about the USA range
from low to lower to lowest.
So, while I still have a strong impression that Muslim public opinion
was much more favorable towards the US after 9/11 and the invasion of
Afghanistan than it was after the invasion of Iraq, I don't have
anything at hand to back it up. Perhaps public opinion polls are not as
common in the Muslim world in general as we are used to in the USA or
Europe.
- Bob T.
Irish Mike
Muslim is a Jihadist, of course anyone sensible knows that is utter
nonsense."
I never said, "just about every muslim is a jihadist". Those are your
words. What I said is that a large percentage of muslims agree that
terrorist acts against women, children and non-combatants are justified.
Just one small example. A recent poll in England found that more than 40%
of the muslims, living in England, as British citizens, approved of the tube
(underground subway train) bombings. Hundreds of innocent women, children
and non-combatants were killed and injured.
What you, and the rest of the muslim-apologists and blame-America-first
people refuse to accept is that the killing of infidels is a basic tenet of
islam. An infidel being any one who is not a muslim. This is not a new
concept or some insanity invented by radicals. It is mainstream islam.
Does that mean every muslim wants their kid to grow up to be a suicide
bomber? No. But many of them do and a huge number say that they understand
and accept the need for these acts of terrorism. When you claim that the
actions of terrorists are necessary and you refuse to even speak out against
them, then you are a terrorist supporter. That is the islamic reality we
face today. Islam is not, and never has been, a religion of peace. Islam
is, and always has been, at war with all other religions.
Irish Mike
"fffurken" <fffu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1157561878.2...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
FL Turbo
Sheesh.
If you are so utterly Clueless that you believe that
---
" Popular opinion in the Muslim world was extremely favorable to the
US until Bush invaded Iraq."
----
- I don't even know where to start.
<sigh>
WuzYoungOnceToo
>
> Hmm... that was off the top of my head, based on my recollection of
> post-9/11 world public opinion reports. Just now I found this:
>
> http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=247
>
> but it's not clear to me that the numbers are very definitive. In some
> Muslim countries, it looks like public opinions about the USA range
> from low to lower to lowest.
It also (quite unintentionally) makes a rather good point about public
opinion abroad. If you scroll down there is a graph representing
opinions from various countries on the "religiosity" of the U.S.
According to that graph 61% of French people think we're too religious,
while the same % of people in the relatively moderate Muslim country of
Jordan think we're not religious enough. This split is evident for
several countries. So...what to make of this divergance of world
opinion on this particular aspect of our culture? Should we, in our
desire to be liked abroad, wring our hands in anxiety over which path
to take? Should we become more secular in order to gain more French
(and general European) respect, or go to church more often in order to
curry favor with Jordanians and other Muslims? Or, perhaps we should
just say "opinion polls be damned" and do whatever we think best?
> So, while I still have a strong impression that Muslim public opinion
> was much more favorable towards the US after 9/11 and the invasion of
> Afghanistan than it was after the invasion of Iraq, I don't have
> anything at hand to back it up.
I'd concede that it's possible that their opinion of us was more
favorable during that period, though I'd be VERY skeptical that it was
"much" more favorable...simply because I saw absolutely no evidence of
that. Furthermore, my reaction was to your claim that Muslim opinion
abroad was "extremely favorable to the US" prior to the Iraq invasion.
But perhaps you were just playing a bit fast and loose with your use of
term "extremely favorable".
Bob
FL Turbo wrote:
>
> If you are so utterly Clueless that you believe that
> ---
> " Popular opinion in the Muslim world was extremely favorable to the
> US until Bush invaded Iraq."
> ----
> - I don't even know where to start.
>
> <sigh>
I thought it was clear from context that I meant "compared to other
periods of time" not "compared to Canada". I was specifically
referring to the period of time after 9/11 and before we invaded Iraq.
The Muslim world in general, and the governments of most Muslim
countries, were much more supportive of the invasion of Afghanistan
than of the invasion of Iraq.
- Bob T.
Bob
WuzYoungOnceToo wrote:
>
> I'd concede that it's possible that their opinion of us was more
> favorable during that period, though I'd be VERY skeptical that it was
> "much" more favorable...simply because I saw absolutely no evidence of
> that. Furthermore, my reaction was to your claim that Muslim opinion
> abroad was "extremely favorable to the US" prior to the Iraq invasion.
> But perhaps you were just playing a bit fast and loose with your use of
> term "extremely favorable".
How about "comparatively favorable"?
- Bob T.
WuzYoungOnceToo
OK, I'll buy that...in that I could conceive that there has been a
relatively minor decrease in the overall favorable view of the U.S. on
the so-called "Muslim street". But unless you're going to pull a
Hankins on me (not that I'm suggesting that you would) I think you'll
agree that there's a significantly substantive difference between that
and the meaning conveyed by your original wording.
Dr Zen
Compared with their view of having their bollocks squeezed in a vice?
--
Dr Zen
King of the wild pixels.
http://gollyg.blogspot.com
fffurken
>would prefer some real evidence to gut hunches.
You know it isn't true? Well then please provide your evidence.
> But I guess the US military will just kill all of them too.
>>That's all well and good...but I fail to see how it addresses Bob's
>>claim that...
>"Popular opinion in the Muslim world was extremely favorable to the US
>until Bush invaded Iraq."
It wasn't addressing Bob's claim. Why would you think that?
It was a reference to how some people think terrorists/terrorism can be
defeated by conventional military means to which I and others on this
forum have repeatedly stated is impossible.
WuzYoungOnceToo
>
> >I don't know that it *isn't* true either. I just
> >would prefer some real evidence to gut hunches.
>
> You know it isn't true? Well then please provide your evidence.
Huh? How did you read "I don't know that it isn't true" as "I know it
isn't true"? And wasn't the sentence that followed it a pretty good
clue that you were misinterpreting?
> >>That's all well and good...but I fail to see how it addresses Bob's
> >>claim that...
>
> >"Popular opinion in the Muslim world was extremely favorable to the US
> >until Bush invaded Iraq."
>
> It wasn't addressing Bob's claim. Why would you think that?
Well,l gee..maybe because that's what my post (to which you were
responding) was about.
> It was a reference to how some people think terrorists/terrorism can be
> defeated by conventional military means to which I and others on this
> forum have repeatedly stated is impossible.
Oh, OK. So your post was irrelevant to mine, and you posting it as a
response to me was completely random.
Bryan Kimmes
> It wasn't addressing Bob's claim. Why would you think that?
>
> It was a reference to how some people think terrorists/terrorism can be
> defeated by conventional military means to which I and others on this
> forum have repeatedly stated is impossible.
Has anything really been accomplished by 'conventional military means' since
WW2?
Bryan
_______________________________________________________________
* New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com
Will in New Haven
Bryan Kimmes wrote:
> On Sep 3 2006 9:04 AM, RMHisCOOL wrote:
>
> > Yes, Christianity is equally fucked up. Ok. Evidence please? Any
> > international acts of terrorism to back up your snide remark?
>
> Does the invasion of Iraq count? I mean it seems every move Al-Quida makes is
> because of their religion. Doesn't that mean every most the West makes can be
> blamed on Christianity?
>
>
> > Now I am very tolerant of other religions. I have no problem with Muslims.
>
> The terrorist operate under the flag of Islam to garner support, the real reason
> they want to destory the West is because the West has been dominating them for
> decades.
These terrorists have a very long history of devotion to their
particular version of al-Islam. The doctrine that allows the killing of
apostates has been used, in internal conflicts, to justify the killing
of any government official, anyone standing NEAR a government official,
eventually anyone registered to vote. The last because democracy takes
the rule away from Allah and puts it into the hands of the government.
In one insurrection, in Algeria, the rebels declared everyone in the
country EXCEPT FOR THEMSELVES fair game and they got someone to issue a
fatwa to prove it.
Treating them as simply reacting to colonialism is foolish. The
thorists, mostly Egyptian, who created the Islamic Brotherhood, Islamic
Jihad and the other groups that led to Quaida were sincere and devout
men and their followers and successors are sincere, devout and
murderous.
The reason that ascribing this as simple anti-colonialist action is not
merely making an excuse for them, it leads to a very bad understanding
of their intentions. The reason, for instance, that the Christians and
Marxists who dominated the Palestinian movement are not in evidence
now is that the Muslims have killed some of them and driven the rest
into silence.
>
> > My
> > problem is that although it's intended to be a religion of peace (like most
> > are)
> > it is the one most misguided, misquoted and misused. It is so bad that you
> > can't call it the religion of peace anymore as it used to cause so much
> > terror.
>
> What % of the followers of Islam are also terrorits?
A very small percentage and there is a great deal of anger at them in
the Muslim world. They are still very dangerous. And they have a great
deal of support from those whose motivation is less religious and those
who have religious motivation but not the commitment to violence.
Will in New Haven
--
Near this spot are deposited the remains of one who possessed Beauty
without Vanity, Strength without Insolence, Courage without Ferocity,
and all the Virtues of Man, without his Vices. This Praise, which
would be unmeaning Flattery if inscribed over human ashes, is but a
just tribute to the Memory of Boatswain, a Dog. ~George Gordon, Lord
Byron, "Inscription on the Monument of a Newfoundland Dog"
FL Turbo
<bill....@taylorandfrancis.com> wrote:
Yep.
You nailed it.