Caro's Threshold of Pain
Louie Landale
My girlfriend stayed in a game way too long since she
was stuck. Caro's
assay on "The Threshold of Pain" comes to mind.
Does anyone recal WHERE this was published, so I can
read it to her?
- Louie
Michael J O'Sullivan
I think I read it in Card Player. However, my best "threshold of
pain" experiences have been with players who reached it *before*
they even get to the poker table. Example: I was playing in a
$5/$10 7 stud game at the MGM in Vegas at about 3:00 AM. A guy
sits down - a little drumk, very tired and tells the table how he
just lost $5,500 playing craps. He had about $600 in red chips
left and literally threw them away. It was almost like he
couldn't wait to get rid of his chips. He accomplished the task
in less than 45 minutes.
Irish Mike
--
Sundance1
I think Caro used the pain Threshold concept to describe the comp[arison
between starting hands and flops -- the Pain Threshold rating related to the
number of times ag iven pair would flop overcards and not a set/
John B/Sundance1
Jason Rosenburg
Sundance1 wrote:
No way Sundance. As I recall what Caro said ( Par phrasing here) :
When someone is losing there comes a point where they have lost so miuch
and it hurts so much that any further losses don't hurt any further. As
I recall he suggests that everyone has their own threshhold of pain and
that once reached it is very wise to pack it in because there is a
danger of throwing off a lot more money because the pain is not any
greater.
For example, let's say someone enters a game with the thought that if
they lose $300 that hurts and they won't lose more than that figure. He
loses $300, feels down has reached that threshold and decides to risk
another $50.00, loses that and takes out another 50.00. etc. At this
point his feeling about further loss is numbed.What's another $50. when
you are down $400? He should have left the game when he hit that
Threshhold($300).
Mike Caro
Louie --
Sorry about your girlfriend's sad experience. I think you mean "Caro's
Threshold of Misery." This is from one of the versions of "Caro's
Fundamental Secrets of Poker" -- a book...
Shown on a blackboard: $825 YOU DON'T LOSE IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AND
JUST AS SPENDABLE AS $825 YOU WIN.
Explanation:
Players react differently when they're losing. It's practically a
universal trait. This single tendency is responsible for more bankroll
failure among capable players than any other fault.
What happens psychologically is this: Players get frustrated when they
fall below a comfortable loss. From that point on, adding to the loss
doesn't seem like the same thing, dollar for dollar. In fact, since
the sorrow of losing is already heavily felt, additional losses
sometimes don't register at all.
When that happens, there's real danger. I call this crossing the
Caro's Threshold of Misery. Once you're past it and feeling
sufficiently singled out and betrayed by the gods of fortune, you just
quit caring. Small=limit players turn $48 worth of bad cards into $90
losses. Middle-limit players stretch $680 setbacks into $1,153 losses.
Top pros turn $22,000 worth of misfortune into $60,000 losses! I've
seen it happen. Often. Almost everyday. All the time.
The reason it happens is that players are mentally treating a poker
session as a win-or-lose proposition. That's wrong to do. They feel
they have to get even or cut their losses for the night. But the right
attitude is very different. The right winning attitude -- the one you
should always take with you to the poker table -- is that you're
ALWAYS even when the hand begins. No matter what's happened, an expert
at poker taking over your bankroll would pay for it exactly what it's
worth NOW. And from the next hand on, he'd try to make correct winning
decisions designed to build that bankroll.
You must, therefore, play just the way that expert would play. You
really ARE even before every hand begins. That's an important concept,
because it prevents you from squandering your bankroll in other ways,
too. For instance, some players quit playing quality poker once
they're winning significantly. That's because the money won is not
theirs yet in their minds. So they treat it as less important. Again,
if you just consider yourself exactly even when the next hand begins,
you won't have the problem.
Throwing away a big share of a win is common, but not nearly as common
as padding a loss through careless play. The disaster of padding your
losses can be avoided if you simply think about what's on the
blackboard now. Is $825 you don't lose as good as $825 you win? The
easiest way to deal with it is to play a fantasy game.
Suppose it's the end of the year and, for your records, you're
tallying all your daily results. When all those $10,043 wins and those
$8,455 losses, and everything else, is totaled, you see that it's been
a bad year.
You look over your calculations and mumble, "Gee, I lost $4,501 last
year. As you sit glumly, a personal genie puffs into existence out of
the fireplace. Out of the
"fireplace"?! Well, it's a new variation on an old theme, so just play
along.
Genie says, "How'd you like to have done $100,000 better last year?"
"That would be nice," you sigh. Then you confess, "Funny thing is, I
think I made $100,000 worth of bad plays when I strayed from my game
plan."
"You're probably right about that," your genie agrees. But I can make
it better. In fact, I can rearrange your life, rewrite last year's
history, and make you $100,000 better off.
"What must I do to get this $100,000," you ask eagerly.
"Nothing much. I notice that when you put all your daily results
together, you have $225,209 in wins and $229,710 in losses. Let's make
it simple. In order for me to rearrange your history, I'll have to
know if you want $100,000 added to your wins, or $100,000 subtracted
from your losses."
"Are you nuts, Genie? What difference does it make?"
"No difference at all," your genie concedes. "Either way, you'll have
$100,000 real cash in your pocket in ten seconds."
"Then take it off my losses," you decide.
"Okay," the genie says. You notice that the losing figures that had
been entered in your daily records are reduced before your eyes. "Now
you've got $225,209 in wins and only $129,710 in losses. Here's
$100,000 in cash."
You say thanks and offer to buy dinner, but the genie becomes bored
and slips back into the fireplace.
"Gosh," you mutter. "I wonder if he'll come around next year. I better
not risk it. I guess I'll just have to treat every hand like I'm
starting out even, instead of taking chances trying to get even for
the day. The secret seems to be to make the best decision every time,
no matter whether I'm winning or losing!"
That's the end of the quote, but -- as I explain in my seminars --
"Caro's Threshold of Misery" goes way beyond poker. When business goes
bad or romance wrecks your happiness, people often stop caring.
They add to their real-life setbacks, because their pain has already
been maximized. Anything they add to it is not felt. So, they stop
acting in their best interest. But at the end of the year -- or
somewhere down the path of pitfalls and potential -- they WILL care
again. And then they will wish that they had treated every decision as
if they were starting out fresh.
Each decision made when your life is in turmoil is just as important
as each decision when your life is in sync -- even though it may not
seem the same.
Straight Flushes,
Mike Caro
Sundance1
YOure right -- one was the Threshold of Misery the other was the Misery Index
-- all the stuff bubbling in my brain from reading years of poker stuff gets
confused -- jumps the synapse or whatever.
Sundance1/John B
Barbara Yoon
Louie Landale:
>> My girlfriend stayed in a game way too long since she was stuck.
>> Caro's assay on "The Threshold of Pain" comes to mind. Does
>> anyone recal WHERE this was published, so I can read it to her?
Jason Rosenburg:
> ...there comes a point where they have lost so miuch and it hurts
> so much that any further losses don't hurt any further. ...everyone
> has their own threshhold of pain and that once reached it is very
> wise to pack it in because there is a danger of throwing off a lot
> more money because the pain is not any greater.
Wait just a minute -- are we talking about Caro's own PERSONAL
"threshold of pain," or his theoretical concept on that phenomenon?!
There's a big difference, you know...
Jason Rosenburg
Barbara Yoon wrote:
LOL, Are you busting my chops again? :) I was attemptng to give the
gist of Caro's Threshold of Misery,which I thought the writer was
refering to.I thought I got it pretty close. No???