Religion & gambling are dependent on the fact that life is filled with
unknowns ("When you die, where do you go?", "Will the board pair on the
river?", etc, etc); since most of us aren't satisfied with not knowing,
there's an attraction to such things. Just as movies etc put a frame around
life in order to bring it down to a size we can grasp, churches & casinos
put a "frame" around the unknown so we can approach it in our individual
ways.
Generally, people approach the unknown with awe & reverence in church, or
with playfulness in a casino, & often with desire in either location. At
higher limits in the casino (or in low-limit religion), this distinction may
blur. Also: for people who want to curse the unknown, it's not socially
acceptable to shout grievances on the street, but at a poker table you can
get away with it. This isn't always true in church, though I believe that
whining at God is an acceptable practice in some sects.
It's my chosen belief that the Golden Rule operates in life as clearly as
probability operates at the tables. But since there's no frame around our
existence, the variance is monstrous, & the long term is longer than we can
imagine.
Stuart (RandomStu)
sres...@mail.com
http://go.to/randomstu
The Golden rule and probability operate in different dimensions, as it were.
Probability is a mathmatical certainty which, in a casino at least, runs
completely counter to a gambler's actions. (If a person were guided by the laws
of probability he would not gamble in a casino) The Golden rule is principle
which does not operate independent but guides human behavior.
Ashley
No, I believe that Stuart got it right in his original post.
Most gamblers are not denying or attempting to mystify the science of
probability. They simply have no understanding of probability. Lacking an
understanding, they believe all the intuitively appealing myths, such as the
notion that the "law of probability" implies that some outcome that has not
occurred in a long time is therefore "due" to occur soon.
The traditionally religious person, in the same way, tends to be ignorant of
what science has taught us, and also of the criteria that scientists when
they accept or reject proposed explanations of how the world is constructed
and operates (i.e., of proposed "laws of nature"). As a result, they, like
the gambler, also believe all the intuitively appealing myths that purport
to explain how the world came to be, what our place is in that world, what
will allegedly happen to us after we die, and how we ought to behave.
Of course, the "laws" of behavior sometimes make good sense (e.g., don't
kill, don't steal, etc.) for a stable society, but the belief that a god
needs to impose those laws (or indeed did so) is what constitutes the myth.
And the existence of a god, or of many gods, is of course an assertion
supported by one or another tradition and reinforced by churches or tribal
elders or such, and taught at an early, impressionable age, and yet remains
nothing more than an assertion (though a different assertion in different
societies, each postulating its own gods and its own myths).
Gambling and religion are both ways that most people seek to gain a (false)
sense of control over what they see as a frightening, uncertain world.
There are different ways that people approach gambling (or religion). Some
gamblers indeed are ignorant of probability & therefore expect to be
long-term winners at EV- games. Others -- more typical, I'd guess -- go to
spend the day at a casino, sit down at perhaps a video poker machine, &
wonder whether this will be the day that they hit a royal flush. Whether or
not it really will be the day is a mystery that probability can't answer, &
the mystery provides the thrill & attraction of the game.
> The traditionally religious person, in the same way, tends to be ignorant
of
> what science has taught us, and also of the criteria that scientists when
> they accept or reject proposed explanations of how the world is
constructed
> and operates (i.e., of proposed "laws of nature").
Again, some people use religion like this. Being ignorant of science, they
for instance look to the Bible as the authoritative word on how long the
earth has existed. More typically, though, people use religion to approach
questions not answered or addressed by science, like who am I & why am I
alive.
In originally comparing religion & gambling, I wasn't thinking of the
participant ignorant of what's known through science, but rather those
consciously or otherwise drawn to facing what's unknown.
> ...people use religion to approach
> questions not answered or addressed by science, like who am I & why am I
> alive.
> In originally comparing religion & gambling, I wasn't thinking of the
> participant ignorant of what's known through science, but rather those
> consciously or otherwise drawn to facing what's unknown.
>
> Stuart (RandomStu)
> sres...@mail.com
> http://go.to/randomstu
Stu.
As an aside, I feel that "science" does attempt to address fundamental
questions. As Steven Weinberg once wrote, "Why is there something instead of
nothing?"
Tom V
I know I've heard that question before. It wasn't in a science class, it was
in Existential Philosophy. I couldn't remember the source; askjeeves.com was
useless, but google.com quickly revealed that it was Martin Heidegger. He
called it the fundamental question of *metaphysics*.
you pray harder at the track
TaG
Gambling and religion do indeed have a great deal ( pun intended) in
common.
The casino is the second greatest monument to gullibilty ever built.
The cathedral is the first.
WJR
>Snip<
>>It's my chosen belief that the Golden Rule operates in life as clearly as
>>probability operates at the tables. But since there's no frame around our
>>existence, the variance is monstrous, & the long term is longer than we can
>>imagine.
>>
>>Stuart (RandomStu)
>>sres...@mail.com
>>http://go.to/randomstu
>>
>
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" sounds like a good
idea until you meet someone who enjoys being raped.
WJR
==========================
Whoops.
You forgot about NASDAQ.
Bill Alan
>
>"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" sounds like a good
>idea until you meet someone who enjoys being raped.
Now if that isn't a contradiction in terms, I don't know what is.
Peg
I like this subject. It's a good subject. Christ said: "You are
the salt of the earth. But if you lose your salt what good are
you?" or words to that effect. I remember that he hung out
with the outcasts of his day. Prostitutes and so on. And I don't think he
would have a problem with gamblers at all.
Me?
I'm a very salty kind of person. I'm not interested in
being overly pure or anything like that, but I like keeping
a positive mental state as much as possible and not have sour emotions and
to realize that poker really is addictive and to
moderate it.
If it's one of the many flavors in life, it's a good thing.
If it's the only flavor, I'm not so sure that it is a good thing.
But each person must make up their own mind on that.
There are worse lives that could be lived, but there are better
ones, too. You have to find the good in it and take that, and
see the bad in it and leave that behind.
And be free.
tvp
Yeah, the literal Golden Rule is a simplification, just as it's a
simplification to try to read other poker players based on what you'd do in
their situation. That's better than nothing, but it's more accurate to
consider information that makes their strategy different from your own.
Likewise, it's more meticulous to try to help others based on what they need
or want, rather than what I'd need or want.
I find gambling (or poker playing) a great occasion for seeing how quickly I
gain or lose a positive mental state based on my fluctuating outside
situation. It can be used as a way to practice keeping a steady mind, or at
least being aware of the unsteadiness & not controlled by it. On the other
hand, gambling can be an occasion for just wallowing in sour emotions that
give temporary relief but longer-term problems.
Hi Stu - Deep. (Why would you want to practice keeping a steady mind?)
>On the other
>hand, gambling can be an occasion for just wallowing in sour emotions that
>give temporary relief but longer-term problems.
I remember once years ago when I lost all the cash I had brought with me to
Las Vegas. I felt free. It felt good.
Go figure. However, I'm not sure I was wallowing in sour emotions, or that I
had longer term problems. That sounds sick.
Congratulations on your recently becoming the (unofficial) Chowaha champion of
the world, at ESCARGOT. Nicely done.
Buzz
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<pacpa...@aol.com> wrote
> Hi Stu - Deep. (Why would you want to practice keeping a steady mind?)
The better the shock absorbers on the car, the clearer I can see the
scenery.