River Raise in $500-$1000 HE
Jeff Biship
knew that if I could keep myself interested, I could clean up in this
game. You see, my opponents usually played .50/1.00 HE on-line, but
they had all recently come into considerable sums of money. Believe
me, they brought their low-limit mentalities to this game.
The following hand came up fairly early in the evening. Oh, I should
mention that, as a way to handicap the game and try to give these
suckers an even break, I was playing blindfolded. My beautiful
Asian-American girlfriend, who was on spring break from Harvard Law
and told her agent that she wasn't going to do any modeling this week
so she could spend time with me, whispered the board cards to me.
We're playing five handed, and I raise UTG with A9o.
Everyone folds to the BB who calls.
Flop: 9c 6c 3s
BB bets, I raise, he reraises, I cap.
Turn: 6d
He bets; I call.
River: 6s
He bets, I raise, he calls.
I show my hand; he folds.
I stacked my chips, confident in my flawless play on all streets. By
the end of the night however, I started to doubt, ever so slightly, my
decision to raise on the river. The only hand my relatively
straightforward playing opponent could have played that way was a set
of 3s.
RGP'er Terrence Chan had this to say:
Set? Worrying about sets is total monsters under the bed syndrome and
not really a consideration 5-handed. Sets are rare! OTOH, people
representing sets are common. Anyone with a lot of shorthanded
experience (especially online) has often seen two guys cap it on the
flop both holding no-pair-no-draw, other than overcards. (Take 2 guys
at 10-20 5-max, give them both a blackjack hand and a 4-2-2 flop and
watch the fireworks...) Top pair on a board of 9-6-3 is huge, and on
the river I would guess in this betting pattern against an unknown
opponent your hand is probably good well over 70% of the time.
I respect T. C.'s analysis, but after watching these guys play, I
doubt my opponent was that tricky (remember, these are usually
.50/1.00 players, after all).
Anyone else have any thoughts on this hand? Don't be shy; if you say
anything particularly embarrassing, I'll just chalk it up to your lack
of familiarity at playing as high as I do.
Jeff
pokermike3
if he doesn't have a nine or better AND he calls. Not a likely combo. It
worked this time but that doesn't mean it was correct.
--
Mike Minetti
"Jeff Biship" <jaye...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:568db845.0204...@posting.google.com...
Gary Carson
wrote:
>Jeff, Your raise on the river was a mistake in my opinion. You
only gain
>if he doesn't have a nine or better AND he calls. Not a likely combo.
It
>worked this time but that doesn't mean it was correct.
>
You obviously don't understand the multi-level thinking that goes on
at 500/1000 limits.
e only hand my relatively
>
Gary Carson
http:// garycarson.home.mindspring.com
Ty Ramsey
knew that if I could keep myself interested, I could clean up in this
could lose interest in such a MICROLIMIT 500/1000 GAME!!!!! Did Phil
Helmuth write this??? People like this piss me off. I guess you
inherited all of your millions.
Jonathan Kaplan.com>
>
>"I don't play a lot of $500/$1000 HE as I usually play higher, but I
>knew that if I could keep myself interested, I could clean up in this
>game. "--??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah yes...I can easily see how you
>could lose interest in such a MICROLIMIT 500/1000 GAME!!!!! Did Phil
>Helmuth write this??? People like this piss me off. I guess you
>inherited all of your millions.
uh, i am willing to wager $.50 that Jeff B's post was a joke, teasing another
poster.
okay, maybe i'd wager more, like 1.3 billion.
but it is one or the other.
$.50 or 1.3 billion.
smile
Jonathan
no matter where you go, there you are....
JTAutry
means you have a bite...
JT
"Ty Ramsey" <trams...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3CAB5EAE...@attbi.com...
RMITCHCOLL
Come on jk, dont become just like all the other bigtimers and flaunt your money
in my face. People like you really piss me off.
<grin> (used with permission)
Randy Collack
Thomas Conner Annandale
your hand was good enough to raise with on the end, why isn't it good
enough for a raise on the turn?
Someone replied with the explanation that "multi-level thinking" was
going on. Could someone explain this to me? I know I am but a humble
low-limit player, but it's still the same game, and if this post truly
represents a viable way of playing hold'em, I'd like to know so that I can
adjust accordingly.
--
Thomas
www.boredatheist.com
MarkT
>uh, i am willing to wager $.50 that Jeff B's post was a joke, teasing another
>poster.
I wonder if the other poster will figure out that he is being teased.
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Peg Smith
writes:
>--??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah yes...I can easily see how you
>could lose interest in such a MICROLIMIT 500/1000 GAME!!!!! Did Phil
>Helmuth write this??? People like this piss me off. I guess you
>inherited all of your millions.
Once again, the humor-impaired come out of the woodwork.
Peg
CSt1015577
>Subject: Re: River Raise in $500-$1000 HE
>From: "JTAutry" tau...@satx.rr.com
>Date: 04/03/2002 3:08 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <a8fnff$83j$1...@nsnmrro2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net>
>
>When you see the ripples in the water from the cork bobbing up and down, it
>means you have a bite...
"I see a ripple, I hear a splash,...lordy, it's a 5 pound bass." Robert Earl
Keen, Jr---"5 Pound Bass"
Eddie Steele
"Even the Losers Get Lucky Sometimes"---Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers
The Beet Man
<20020403171934...@mb-mw.aol.com>,
pegsm...@aol.comNOSPAM (Peg Smith) wrote:
How do you know that he wasn't kidding too?
--
This post brought to you courtesy of the Beet Man!
Carl
> I'm having difficulty understanding how your play could be correct. If
> your hand was good enough to raise with on the end, why isn't it good
> enough for a raise on the turn?
>
> Someone replied with the explanation that "multi-level thinking" was
> going on. Could someone explain this to me? I know I am but a humble
> low-limit player, but it's still the same game, and if this post truly
> represents a viable way of playing hold'em, I'd like to know so that I can
> adjust accordingly.
Well, I hate to burst your bubble but the "multi-level thinking" that
is going on is completely flawed, as I shall now prove.
You see, standard poker theory (ala Sklansky et al) demonstrates
clearly that given a blindfolded poker situation, the EV of a
beautiful asian-american girlfriend cannot be determined with
reference to her modeling career unless you consider the possibility
that she might not actually be Harvard Law, but, and this shocks some
low limit players, she might instead be attending Stanford. The give
away is the spring break lapse: Harvard puts all its models on a
quarter, not semester, system, and therefore raising at the end was
the completely wrong maneuever. Our hero simply got lucky.
Jeffrey Biship
>In article <3CAB5EAE...@attbi.com>, Ty Ramsey says...
>>
>>"I don't play a lot of $500/$1000 HE as I usually play higher, but I
>>knew that if I could keep myself interested, I could clean up in this
>>game. "--??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah yes...I can easily see how you
>>could lose interest in such a MICROLIMIT 500/1000 GAME!!!!! Did Phil
>>Helmuth write this??? People like this piss me off. I guess you
>>inherited all of your millions.
>
>uh, i am willing to wager $.50 that Jeff B's post was a joke, teasing another
>poster.
>
>okay, maybe i'd wager more, like 1.3 billion.
>but it is one or the other.
>$.50 or 1.3 billion.
>smile
>
>Jonathan
Jonathan,
Actually, I was giving the whole group a little good natured ribbing.
I posted this hand about a week ago, and got four (maybe five)
replies.
The first was from Terrence, who actually gave me some real live poker
content. I appreciated that, Terrence. Thank you.
The other three (or four) were about how Paradise Poker hand histories
worked.
I sometimes get frustrated that many of my hand posts go ignored.
Some have stated that they can't be moved to answer questions about
low limit games, so I thought I'd see if I could generated some
interest in my hand. It may interest the group to know that I got
FOUR poker related, on topic, real live responses on 2+2 at last
check.
Anyway, let me take this opportunity to ask you a personal question,
Jonathan. Are you the same Jonathan Kaplan that produces/directs
"E.R."?
Take care,
Jeff
Success is a lot like a bright, white tuxedo.
You feel terrific when you get it, but then you're
desperately afraid of getting it dirty, of spoiling it.
Conan O'Brien
Commencement Address to the Harvard class of 2000.
Jeffrey Biship
<gte...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote:
> I'm having difficulty understanding how your play could be correct. If
>your hand was good enough to raise with on the end, why isn't it good
>enough for a raise on the turn?
Thomas,
Now that my cover is blown, I will urge you NOT to emulate my play.
I didn't raise on the turn, because I thought a six was a possible
holding for my opponent. I assumed he had SOMETHING and the six
slowed me down. Maybe that's too weak tight. Probably, but I too am
a "humble low limit player" and have learned to respect a paired board
in a loose game, no matter how innocuous seeming the rank of the
paired card. Also, given the fact that I put in the last raise on the
flop, then get bet into on the turn, I decided that descretion was the
better part of valor.
But then something funny happened on the river. When he bet again,
something seemed fishy. I've seen my share of on-line quads, but I
doubted that he would cap it on the flop with JUST a six. The 6c was
on the board, so he couldn't have had Ac6c (a capping hand
short-handed, IMHO). I must confess I didn't completely analyze every
possible holding he could have had here. If I had, I probably
wouldn't have raised, though a pair bigger than 99s probably would
have reraised preflop, I think.
In retrospect, I think my opponent flopped a set of 3s, and he made a
slightly tilt-induced bet on the river. My raise worked this time,
but was probably a bad idea.
It's up to you to convince me that my decision to call the turn was a
bad one.
Thanks for your input,
Jeffrey Biship
>Our hero simply got lucky.
^^^^^^^
Carl,
You're wily and perceptive; I'll give you that.
At least you paid me the proper respect, though.
Keep flopping 9s,
greatbrit
> ...I was playing blindfolded. My beautiful Asian-American
> girlfriend...whispered the board cards to me.
I don't see how you can be sure it was your beautiful Asian-American
girlfriend whispering, it could have been that well known angle where a
dickweed whispers the wrong board cards to a blindfolded player.
Otherwise I think you played it just fine.
Paul
Jonathan Kaplan.com>
personally, i dont answer too many "hand" posts, unless it is beginner type
questions, newbies to RGP.
the main reason why i take that attitude is, most every situation (or similar)
has been discussed here already, many times. how many times can we discuss how
to play AQ utg?
i answer more for newbies/beginners cause they just dont know any better, and
they need more encouragement.
i am part cynical, i guess.
>Anyway, let me take this opportunity to ask you a personal question,
>Jonathan. Are you the same Jonathan Kaplan that produces/directs
>"E.R."?
>
different guy, although i do know him (if it is the same director who did the
movie "over the edge", a terrific drama from years ago.)
that Jonathan Kaplan is much more talented than i.
>Take care,
you too.
Jonathan
>
>Jeff
>Success is a lot like a bright, white tuxedo.
>You feel terrific when you get it, but then you're
>desperately afraid of getting it dirty, of spoiling it.
>
>Conan O'Brien
>Commencement Address to the Harvard class of 2000.
no matter where you go, there you are....
Gary Carson
Kaplan<NutNoPair@aol<spam>.com> wrote:
>In article <3cabe11d....@nntp.mindspring.com>, Jeffrey Biship
says...
>>
>>I sometimes get frustrated that many of my hand posts go ignored.
>>Some have stated that they can't be moved to answer questions about
>>low limit games, so I thought I'd see if I could generated some
>>interest in my hand. It may interest the group to know that I got
>>FOUR poker related, on topic, real live responses on 2+2 at last
>>check.
>>
>
>personally, i dont answer too many "hand" posts, unless it is
beginner type
>questions, newbies to RGP.
I didn't respond to the initial post because I didn't see anything to
add to what Terrance had already said.
Jonathan Kaplan.com>
yes. an even better reason....grin.
Jonathan
>
>Gary Carson
>http:// garycarson.home.mindspring.com
no matter where you go, there you are....
The Beet Man
<3cabe11d....@nntp.mindspring.com>, jaye...@mindspring.com
(Jeffrey Biship) wrote:
>On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 20:09:18 GMT, Jonathan
>Kaplan<NutNoPair@aol<spam>.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <3CAB5EAE...@attbi.com>, Ty Ramsey says...
>>>
>>>"I don't play a lot of $500/$1000 HE as I usually play higher, but I
>>>knew that if I could keep myself interested, I could clean up in this
>>>game. "--??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah yes...I can easily see how you
>>>could lose interest in such a MICROLIMIT 500/1000 GAME!!!!! Did Phil
>>>Helmuth write this??? People like this piss me off. I guess you
>>>inherited all of your millions.
>>
>>uh, i am willing to wager $.50 that Jeff B's post was a joke, teasing another
>>poster.
>>
>>okay, maybe i'd wager more, like 1.3 billion.
>>but it is one or the other.
>>$.50 or 1.3 billion.
>>smile
>
>Actually, I was giving the whole group a little good natured ribbing.
>
>I posted this hand about a week ago, and got four (maybe five)
>replies.
>
>The first was from Terrence, who actually gave me some real live poker
>content. I appreciated that, Terrence. Thank you.
>
>The other three (or four) were about how Paradise Poker hand histories
>worked.
>
>I sometimes get frustrated that many of my hand posts go ignored.
>Some have stated that they can't be moved to answer questions about
>low limit games, so I thought I'd see if I could generated some
>interest in my hand. It may interest the group to know that I got
>FOUR poker related, on topic, real live responses on 2+2 at last
>check.
Speaking only on behalf of myself, the Beet Man, I tend to ignore most
"comments on a hand" posts that include a hand history and no text
transcription, because I find the hand histories too long to bother
with. Also, even ones that I do read, I often have nothing to add
after what everyone else has said.