Poker Dome and the F Word
Matt Savage
Another first in my career happened during the taping of show 41. Before each
taping I warn the payers that due to the fact that this is a televised event
swearing is not permitted. So, the current procedure is to give a 10 minute
penalty during the first three rounds and 5 after that. When the tournament
reached heads up player Mark Thevis blurted out those four little letters that
start with F and I was forced to give him a 5 minute penalty. At that point the
blinds were 8,000-16,000 and despite him being the current chip leader I knew
that he was going to get hurt really bad. This is not a situation that I like
even though I do get more camera time when this happens :-). Unfortunately this
is speed poker and the other player decided to speed up on top of it. By the
time he returned he was down to 30,000 of the total 300,000 in play. I found
myself almost pulling for him to get back in the match and when he double up he
was one more double up from being almost even and then it happened, he said it
again. I could not believe it and asked both dealers if it was true and when the
other player chimed in that he did say it all I could do was let him be blinded
out. He denied saying it and I even had to go to the tape but when I got to the
production truck the producer said it was a fact. As I stated before this was a
first for me and I think it was a first for televised poker. He did apologize at
the time but all of the sudden I got the feeling I was the bad guy in the
situation. As he walked out into the audience he received a round of applause. I
on the other hand met with production and others that said I did the right thing
and thanked me for standing my ground. Mark also sent me an email later in the
week and apologized which was a really classy thing to do.
I generally do not use the F-word penalty in most of my events because it is
way too subjective of when it gets reported and additionally there are far more
offensive words in my opinion that do not make the list. My rule about abusive
language is simple, if it is offensive to or aimed at any other player, dealer,
or tournament personnel that a penalty will be assessed. Due to the recent rule
change that took place at the TDA meeting, time penalties will no longer be
assessed. There was far too much inconsistency going on with the current way
penalties were timed. If a player or players felt that a penalty was not
deserved or worse if their friend was on a penalty they could stall and negate
the effect of the penalty or worse still speed up and decimate the player on the
penalty. The rule now reads that penalties will be in stages 1-2-3-4 and at a
stage one penalty a player will miss one hand for every player that is currently
at the table. This will now make it more equitable for final table situations
as well. Please send any comments or questions about the news rules to
Askth...@pokertda.com. The complete list of new TDA rules can be found at
www.pokertda.com .
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Matt Savage
A Man Beaten by Jacks
That's completely fucked-up. So all the guy has to do is not say fuck and
he can't fucking manage it? What's so hard about not saying fuck that he
managed to fuck it up? Fuck!
Matt Savage
is commonly used in everyday conversation. BTW, the show airs on the west coast
at 11pm on FSN.
>
> That's completely fucked-up. So all the guy has to do is not say fuck and
> he can't fucking manage it? What's so hard about not saying fuck that he
> managed to fuck it up? Fuck!
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GambleAB
sing kareoke, you'll get a 10 minute penalty and not be able to sing?
Something to think about....
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OrangeSFO
> To be fair the way he explained it was that in Denmark where he is from the word
> is commonly used in everyday conversation.
Why didnt he just say it in Danish?
Matt Savage
karaoke!
Matt
www.SavageTournaments.com
www.PokerTDA.com
www.Bay101.com
On Mar 4 2007 10:51 PM, GambleAB wrote:
> Matthew, do you think that if you say "fuck" the next time you are up to
> sing kareoke, you'll get a 10 minute penalty and not be able to sing?
> Something to think about....
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Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster
> Yes, if it is on TV and that would be a good thing if I got shut down in
> karaoke!
>
Well the tournament isn't broadcast LIVE is it? Can't the editors just
not include the "fuck" hands?
It seems like too brutal of a punishment to me.
> Matt
> www.SavageTournaments.com
> www.PokerTDA.com
> www.Bay101.com
>
> On Mar 4 2007 10:51 PM, GambleAB wrote:
>
> > Matthew, do you think that if you say "fuck" the next time you are up to
> > sing kareoke, you'll get a 10 minute penalty and not be able to sing?
> > Something to think about....
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Professor 77
This is so unfair!!!! Fuck means pumpkin or squash in Thai and means knock (as
in knock on a door) in Hebrew. Was he perhaps a Thai Jew?
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Matt Savage
given this penalty in 2 previous events and therefore needed to continue through
the rest of the series as it would not be fair for the two others I penalized
with time.
Matt Savage
www.SavageTournaments.com
www.PokerTDA.com
www.Bay101.com
On Mar 4 2007 11:14 PM, Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
> On Mar 4 2007 11:06 PM, Matt Savage wrote:
>
> > Yes, if it is on TV and that would be a good thing if I got shut down in
> > karaoke!
> >
>
> Well the tournament isn't broadcast LIVE is it? Can't the editors just
> not include the "fuck" hands?
> It seems like too brutal of a punishment to me.
>
> > Matt
> > http://www.SavageTournaments.com
> > http://www.PokerTDA.com
> > http://www.Bay101.com
> >
> > On Mar 4 2007 10:51 PM, GambleAB wrote:
> >
> > > Matthew, do you think that if you say "fuck" the next time you are up to
> > > sing kareoke, you'll get a 10 minute penalty and not be able to sing?
> > > Something to think about....
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Now its over, I'm dead and I haven't done anything I want,
> or I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do!
> If you must: brewmaster at brewcam dot com
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Stephen Jacobs
"Professor 77" <4308...@recpoker.com> wrote in message
news:1173079177$962...@recpoker.com...
>
> This is so unfair!!!! Fuck means pumpkin or squash in Thai and means knock
> (as
> in knock on a door) in Hebrew. Was he perhaps a Thai Jew?
>
Well, it entered English as a less nasty replacement for the word 'swive.'
Let's bring back 'swive,' and then we can say "At least he only said
'fuck'."
Seriously, I like the idea of more graded penalties, but more broadly
applied. Just as there's a sign warning that you are giving an implicit
photo release walking into a WPT event area, you may as well be warned
that behavior unsuitable for television may be subject to arbitrary
punishments.
I think threats of violence should be under the same rubric. "I'll rip off
your leg and hit you over the head with it" is obviously kidding, but it
deserves a warning any time in a casino and probably a one hand penalty on
television. "We know how to treat slow-rollers in Delaware" or the like is
heading toward some kind of penalty in any game, and severe penaltiesin
televised events.
da pickle
> Why didnt he just say it in Danish?
He did.
A Man Beaten by Jacks
Maybe there should be penalties for mean looks too.
Bruno
I guess that if you have to issue a penalty, having it based on number of hands
vs time is a more equitable solution.
That said, the big issue for me is your language you used in defining abusive
language: "My rule about abusive language is simple, if it is offensive to or
aimed at any other player, dealer, or tournament personnel that a penalty will
be assessed."
The problem is the definition of "offensive language". You need a hard and fast
definition. Having penalties against players that are abusive to players,
dealers, or tournament personnel is a good thing. All for that. But without a
definition of what offensive language is, it'll all be subjective. Reminds me of
the classic statement during the senate debates several years ago regarding
pornography when the Senator in charge was asked to define pornography. When he
couldn't define it he blurted out: "I'll know it when I see it!".
It's been my experience that players swear more out of frustration. They aren't
directing it towards anyone. They're frustrated and it comes out as anger
toward no one in particular. Under your definition, would calling another
player a "donkey" be a penalty? Couldn't Matisow's constant yaking be taken as
abusive by someone (Let alone Helmuth's constant denigration.....)?
I realize that you've got a business enterprise to run, with sponsors, TV, and
their money to consider, but can't you just edit out the language for the TV
show, and penalize the players for abuse?
Bruno
seedless
On Mar 5 2007 7:53 AM, Bruno wrote:
> I realize that you've got a business enterprise to run, with sponsors, TV, and
> their money to consider, but can't you just edit out the language for the TV
> show, and penalize the players for abuse?
This is the most sensible way to handle future issues.
How do you get a sweet eighty year old lady to say the word "F**K"
Have another sweet eighty year old lady say the word "BINGO"
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bo dark
if they have vague rules they can discriminate,those players that say
things that may offend one group would be penalized or thrown out of
the tournament,if a group of people are not liked by the particular
tournament director he can let the offense slide.
if someone says something offensive and no one says anything is the
player penalized?do they not say anything because the fear reprisals
if they do?if a player in frustration blurts out mohammed "the
friggin" prophet i missed my flush will he/she be penalized.
the tournament directors want an easy out,where their not the bad
guy,the television networks are the ones who ultimately decide what is
acceptable to say.
Matt Savage
happy to tell Matusow that his abuse will not be tolerated but it is much more
acceptable when he calls another pro like Gus a "Donkey" than it is when he does
it to a player he does not know. Phil Hellmuth and I have had many discussions
about his actions and he is far less abusive in the tournaments I run. The new
penalty rule will be much more equitable.
As far af being edited, on the Poker Dome shows we have a one day turn around so
most of the play is shown so therefore it cannot be edited out. He would not
have received a penalty at all in most of the tournaments I run.
Matt Savage
do they do to slow rollers in Delaware?
Matt
_______________________________________________________________
A Man Beaten by Jacks
>Yes violent threats at all are considered more punishable than swear words. What
>do they do to slow rollers in Delaware?
Buckwheats.
Smorgass Bored
Matt Savage wrote:
> Yes violent threats at all are considered more punishable than swear words.
> What
> do they do to slow rollers in Delaware?
> > Matt
Matt, I'd like your opinion on something that I posted here a year or two ago.
I was in a NLHE poker tournament in a B & M and after a player sucked out on me
with a really bad play, I blurted out " Jesus CHRIST ! "
The player complained to the dealer and the dealer called the floor. The dealer
explained to floor and I added that I didn't think Jesus Christ was a vulgar
term.
The dealer said that it was THE WAY that I said it. The floor put me on a
'Warning', to be followed by disqualification if it happened again.
My question is..... is it a correct ruling ?
Doug
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Matt Savage
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Patti Beadles
Stephen Jacobs <jac...@comcast.net> wrote:
>I think threats of violence should be under the same rubric.
How about my favorite? "Don't make me scowl at you."
-P
--
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Or just yell, "Hey Patti!" |
Matt Savage
>
>
> Matt, I'd like your opinion on something that I posted here a year or two ago.
> I was in a NLHE poker tournament in a B & M and after a player sucked out on
> me
> with a really bad play, I blurted out " Jesus CHRIST ! "
> The player complained to the dealer and the dealer called the floor. The
> dealer
> explained to floor and I added that I didn't think Jesus Christ was a vulgar
> term.
> The dealer said that it was THE WAY that I said it. The floor put me on a
> 'Warning', to be followed by disqualification if it happened again.
>
> My question is..... is it a correct ruling ?
> Doug
>
JC is not vulgar, however it could be seen as offensive as many believe you
should not use the lord's name that way. I would have politely asked you not to
do it any more as it obviously offended someone.
Matt Savage
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Matt Savage
On Mar 5 2007 11:40 AM, Patti Beadles wrote:
> In article <2LednSJmdIJ7kHHY...@comcast.com>,
> Stephen Jacobs wrote:
>
> >I think threats of violence should be under the same rubric.
>
> How about my favorite? "Don't make me scowl at you."
Automatic penalty :-)
Matt
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Smorgass Bored
Matt, there was no text in your last reply.
On Mar 5 2007 3:37 PM, Matt Savage wrote:
>
>
> On Mar 5 2007 11:30 AM, Smorgass Bored wrote:
>
> >
> > Matt Savage wrote:
> > > Yes violent threats at all are considered more punishable than swear
> > > words.
> > > What
> > > do they do to slow rollers in Delaware?
> > > > Matt
> >
> >
> > Matt, I'd like your opinion on something that I posted here a year or two
> > ago.
> > I was in a NLHE poker tournament in a B & M and after a player sucked out on
> > me
> > with a really bad play, I blurted out " Jesus CHRIST ! "
> > The player complained to the dealer and the dealer called the floor. The
> > dealer
> > explained to floor and I added that I didn't think Jesus Christ was a vulgar
> > term.
> > The dealer said that it was THE WAY that I said it. The floor put me on a
> > 'Warning', to be followed by disqualification if it happened again.
> >
> > My question is..... is it a correct ruling ?
> > Doug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Doug - Max Culpa on Poker Stars
Feverishly Trying To Outrun The Bots
Smorgass Bored
> > My question is..... is it a correct ruling ?
> > Doug
> >
> JC is not vulgar, however it could be seen as offensive as many believe you
> should not use the lord's name that way. I would have politely asked you not
> to
> do it any more as it obviously offended someone.
> > Matt Savage
Thank you for your reply. I taped Poker Dome and I'm going to watch it in a few
minutes (when I'm knocked out of the Omaha 8/B tournament :-)
Doug - Max Culpa on Poker Stars
Feverishly Trying To Outrun The Bots
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Bruno
Thanks for the response Matt. One day turnaround time?!?!....wow....that's awful
quick....That would make for a very very quick edit.....
But the real problem is definitions. "If it is offensive to or aimed at any
other player, dealer, or tournament personell...", could be used by any player
to complain regarding another player. Personally, someone picking their nose at
the table and handling the cards before washing their hands is a bit offensive
to me. Am I allowed to call the floor and ask for a penalty to be assessed?
Sure, the example is facetious, and a floorman is going to have to be pragmatic.
But that's my point. "Offensive to" in the workplace has now been so ran through
(with companies so afraid of sexual harrassement and religious lawsuits), that
any time anyone complains in a company of any size, the manager must contact a
HR rep. Or the manager may be considered complicit by the company, and possibly
be submitted for disciplinary actions.
My attitude is this, "what comes out of someone elses mouth says nothing about
me, but says alot about them". As long as it isn't directed towards me. And
that's the philosophy I think out to be adopted.
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Smorgass Bored
> Thank you for your reply. I taped Poker Dome and I'm going to watch it in a
> few
> minutes (when I'm knocked out of the Omaha 8/B tournament :-)
> Doug - Max Culpa on Poker Stars
Oh well, I can watch it RIGHT NOW..... DAMMIT !
bo dark
when used as a profanity it is offensive.what if in a similiar
incident a player said he was "jewed" out of the hand.if a player used
the term "nigger flush" at the table and there weren't any black
people at the table would it be an infraction?as i mentioned in this
thread before what if somebody used mohammed the friggin' prophet
after they got sucked out on,or buddhist priest as a profanity when
men nguyen was at the table.
a simple rule would be no religious,ethnic,or racially offensive terms
at the table,everything else would be alright.
John_Brian_K
lol
j/k
That is a harsh penalty though, but if he knew the rules going in it
is his own fault.
Patti Beadles
Matt Savage <4307...@recpoker.com> wrote:
>> How about my favorite? "Don't make me scowl at you."
>Automatic penalty :-)
*Scowl*
Smorgass Bored
bo dark wrote:
> when used as a profanity it is offensive.what if in a similiar
> incident a player said he was "jewed" out of the hand.if a player used
> the term "nigger flush" at the table and there weren't any black
> people at the table would it be an infraction?as i mentioned in this
> thread before what if somebody used mohammed the friggin' prophet
> after they got sucked out on,or buddhist priest as a profanity when
> men nguyen was at the table.
>
> a simple rule would be no religious,ethnic,or racially offensive terms
> at the table,everything else would be alright.
When said loudly and fast, " GOTdandruffinmyhair and someofititches" might
warrant a 10 minute penalty too.... imo
Doug - Max Culpa on Poker Stars
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Smorgass Bored
ohn_Brian_K wrote:
> This is such a stupid fucking thread.
Mike Hunt says, "loosen up."
:-)
Doug - Max Culpa on Poker Stars
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Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster
> Totally agree it is too harsh, that is why we changed the rule in the TDA. I
had
> given this penalty in 2 previous events and therefore needed to continue
through
> the rest of the series as it would not be fair for the two others I penalized
> with time.
I'm glad you changed it. I remember a situation at a WSOP final table
(last year??? or the year before) where someone called for a penalty
against Vinny Vinh when they were heads up at the final table. Seems like
too much of an opportunity for angle shooting to me.
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Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster
> >
> >
> > Matt, I'd like your opinion on something that I posted here a year or two
ago.
> > I was in a NLHE poker tournament in a B & M and after a player sucked out
on
> > me
> > with a really bad play, I blurted out " Jesus CHRIST ! "
> > The player complained to the dealer and the dealer called the floor. The
> > dealer
> > explained to floor and I added that I didn't think Jesus Christ was a
vulgar
> > term.
> > The dealer said that it was THE WAY that I said it. The floor put me on a
> > 'Warning', to be followed by disqualification if it happened again.
> >
> > My question is..... is it a correct ruling ?
> > Doug
> >
> JC is not vulgar, however it could be seen as offensive as many believe you
> should not use the lord's name that way.
Not trying to start anything (this time), but wouldn't you have to first
believe that JC IS the lord first? If you do not believe he is, then
saying JC can't be offensive. If you have to consider what each and every
person considers offensive you won't be able to say anything (which is why
I thought there was a specific "f-word" rule.
In the 2005 ME I was at a table with that foul mouth chick that was
married to the NY Met (you know, the chick who goes on Howard Stern all
the time...I can't remember her name). Anyway, she got a penalty when the
dealer heard her whisper "what the fuck was that guy thinking" to her
neighbor. When she got back she said "so I can't say the f-word but I can
say cunt, bitch, shit, asshole, or anything like that?" then she called
the dealer a cunt. She got warned not to talk like that anymore or she'd
get another penalty. The "ESPN Hollywood" cameras were on her the whole
time and egging her on.
> I would have politely asked you not to
> do it any more as it obviously offended someone.
>
> Matt Savage
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