Poker Dome and the F Word

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Matt Savage

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Mar 5, 2007, 12:36:17 AM3/5/07
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Another first in my career happened during the taping of show 41. Before each
taping I warn the payers that due to the fact that this is a televised event
swearing is not permitted.  So, the current procedure is to give a 10 minute
penalty during the first three rounds and 5 after that. When the tournament
reached heads up player Mark Thevis blurted out those four little letters that
start with F and I was forced to give him a 5 minute penalty. At that point the
blinds were 8,000-16,000 and despite him being the current chip leader I knew
that he was going to get hurt really bad. This is not a situation that I like
even though I do get more camera time when this happens :-). Unfortunately this
is speed poker and the other player decided to speed up on top of it.  By the
time he returned he was down to 30,000 of the total 300,000 in play. I found
myself almost pulling for him to get back in the match and when he double up he
was one more double up from being almost even and then it happened, he said it
again. I could not believe it and asked both dealers if it was true and when the
other player chimed in that he did say it all I could do was let him be blinded
out. He denied saying it and I even had to go to the tape but when I got to the
production truck the producer said it was a fact. As I stated before this was a
first for me and I think it was a first for televised poker. He did apologize at
the time but all of the sudden I got the feeling I was the bad guy in the
situation. As he walked out into the audience he received a round of applause. I
on the other hand met with production and others that said I did the right thing
and thanked me for standing my ground. Mark also sent me an email later in the
week and apologized which was a really classy thing to do.
I generally do not use the F-word penalty in most of my events because it is
way too subjective of when it gets reported and additionally there are far more
offensive words in my opinion that do not make the list. My rule about abusive
language is simple, if it is offensive to or aimed at any other player, dealer,
or tournament personnel that a penalty will be assessed. Due to the recent rule
change that took place at the TDA meeting, time penalties will no longer be
assessed. There was far too much inconsistency going on with the current way
penalties were timed. If a player or players felt that a penalty was not
deserved or worse if their friend was on a penalty they could stall and negate
the effect of the penalty or worse still speed up and decimate the player on the
penalty. The rule now reads that penalties will be in stages 1-2-3-4 and at a
stage one penalty a player will miss one hand for every player that is currently
at the table.  This will now make it more equitable for final table situations
as well. Please send any comments or questions about the news rules to
Askth...@pokertda.com. The complete list of new TDA rules can be found at
www.pokertda.com .


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Matt Savage

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Mar 5, 2007, 12:45:26 AM3/5/07
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A Man Beaten by Jacks

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Mar 5, 2007, 12:57:05 AM3/5/07
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That's completely fucked-up. So all the guy has to do is not say fuck and
he can't fucking manage it? What's so hard about not saying fuck that he
managed to fuck it up? Fuck!

Matt Savage

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Mar 5, 2007, 1:11:11 AM3/5/07
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To be fair the way he explained it was that in Denmark where he is from the word
is commonly used in everyday conversation. BTW, the show airs on the west coast
at 11pm on FSN.

> >http://www.pokertda.com .


>
> That's completely fucked-up. So all the guy has to do is not say fuck and
> he can't fucking manage it? What's so hard about not saying fuck that he
> managed to fuck it up? Fuck!

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GambleAB

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Mar 5, 2007, 1:51:22 AM3/5/07
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Matthew, do you think that if you say "fuck" the next time you are up to
sing kareoke, you'll get a 10 minute penalty and not be able to sing?
Something to think about....

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OrangeSFO

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Mar 5, 2007, 1:56:54 AM3/5/07
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On Mar 4, 10:11 pm, Matt Savage <43079...@recpoker.com> wrote:

> To be fair the way he explained it was that in Denmark where he is from the word
> is commonly used in everyday conversation.


Why didnt he just say it in Danish?

Matt Savage

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Mar 5, 2007, 2:06:14 AM3/5/07
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Yes, if it is on TV and that would be a good thing if I got shut down in
karaoke!

Matt
www.SavageTournaments.com
www.PokerTDA.com
www.Bay101.com

On Mar 4 2007 10:51 PM, GambleAB wrote:

> Matthew, do you think that if you say "fuck" the next time you are up to
> sing kareoke, you'll get a 10 minute penalty and not be able to sing?
> Something to think about....

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Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster

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Mar 5, 2007, 2:14:55 AM3/5/07
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On Mar 4 2007 11:06 PM, Matt Savage wrote:

> Yes, if it is on TV and that would be a good thing if I got shut down in
> karaoke!
>

Well the tournament isn't broadcast LIVE is it? Can't the editors just
not include the "fuck" hands?
It seems like too brutal of a punishment to me.

> Matt
> www.SavageTournaments.com
> www.PokerTDA.com
> www.Bay101.com
>
> On Mar 4 2007 10:51 PM, GambleAB wrote:
>
> > Matthew, do you think that if you say "fuck" the next time you are up to
> > sing kareoke, you'll get a 10 minute penalty and not be able to sing?
> > Something to think about....


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Professor 77

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Mar 5, 2007, 2:19:37 AM3/5/07
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This is so unfair!!!! Fuck means pumpkin or squash in Thai and means knock (as
in knock on a door) in Hebrew. Was he perhaps a Thai Jew?

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Matt Savage

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Mar 5, 2007, 2:37:05 AM3/5/07
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Totally agree it is too harsh, that is why we changed the rule in the TDA. I had
given this penalty in 2 previous events and therefore needed to continue through
the rest of the series as it would not be fair for the two others I penalized
with time.

Matt Savage
www.SavageTournaments.com
www.PokerTDA.com
www.Bay101.com

On Mar 4 2007 11:14 PM, Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:

> On Mar 4 2007 11:06 PM, Matt Savage wrote:
>
> > Yes, if it is on TV and that would be a good thing if I got shut down in
> > karaoke!
> >
>
> Well the tournament isn't broadcast LIVE is it? Can't the editors just
> not include the "fuck" hands?
> It seems like too brutal of a punishment to me.
>
> > Matt

> > http://www.SavageTournaments.com
> > http://www.PokerTDA.com
> > http://www.Bay101.com


> >
> > On Mar 4 2007 10:51 PM, GambleAB wrote:
> >
> > > Matthew, do you think that if you say "fuck" the next time you are up to
> > > sing kareoke, you'll get a 10 minute penalty and not be able to sing?
> > > Something to think about....
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Now its over, I'm dead and I haven't done anything I want,
> or I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do!
> If you must: brewmaster at brewcam dot com

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Stephen Jacobs

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Mar 5, 2007, 7:32:30 AM3/5/07
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"Professor 77" <4308...@recpoker.com> wrote in message
news:1173079177$962...@recpoker.com...

>
> This is so unfair!!!! Fuck means pumpkin or squash in Thai and means knock
> (as
> in knock on a door) in Hebrew. Was he perhaps a Thai Jew?
>

Well, it entered English as a less nasty replacement for the word 'swive.'
Let's bring back 'swive,' and then we can say "At least he only said
'fuck'."

Seriously, I like the idea of more graded penalties, but more broadly
applied. Just as there's a sign warning that you are giving an implicit
photo release walking into a WPT event area, you may as well be warned
that behavior unsuitable for television may be subject to arbitrary
punishments.

I think threats of violence should be under the same rubric. "I'll rip off
your leg and hit you over the head with it" is obviously kidding, but it
deserves a warning any time in a casino and probably a one hand penalty on
television. "We know how to treat slow-rollers in Delaware" or the like is
heading toward some kind of penalty in any game, and severe penaltiesin
televised events.


da pickle

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Mar 5, 2007, 8:08:44 AM3/5/07
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"OrangeSFO"

> Why didnt he just say it in Danish?

He did.


A Man Beaten by Jacks

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Mar 5, 2007, 8:39:28 AM3/5/07
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Maybe there should be penalties for mean looks too.

Bruno

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Mar 5, 2007, 9:53:33 AM3/5/07
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I guess that if you have to issue a penalty, having it based on number of hands
vs time is a more equitable solution.

That said, the big issue for me is your language you used in defining abusive
language:   "My rule about abusive language is simple, if it is offensive to or


aimed at any other player, dealer, or tournament personnel that a penalty will
be assessed."

The problem is the definition of "offensive language". You need a hard and fast
definition. Having penalties against players that are abusive to players,
dealers, or tournament personnel is a good thing. All for that. But without a
definition of what offensive language is, it'll all be subjective. Reminds me of
the classic statement during the senate debates several years ago regarding
pornography when the Senator in charge was asked to define pornography. When he
couldn't define it he blurted out: "I'll know it when I see it!".

It's been my experience that players swear more out of frustration. They aren't
directing it towards anyone.  They're frustrated and it comes out as anger
toward no one in particular.  Under your definition, would calling another
player a "donkey" be a penalty? Couldn't Matisow's constant yaking be taken as
abusive by someone (Let alone Helmuth's constant denigration.....)?

I realize that you've got a business enterprise to run, with sponsors, TV, and
their money to consider, but can't you just edit out the language for the TV
show, and penalize the players for abuse?

Bruno

seedless

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Mar 5, 2007, 11:12:40 AM3/5/07
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On Mar 5 2007 7:53 AM, Bruno wrote:


> I realize that you've got a business enterprise to run, with sponsors, TV, and
> their money to consider, but can't you just edit out the language for the TV
> show, and penalize the players for abuse?

This is the most sensible way to handle future issues.

How do you get a sweet eighty year old lady to say the word "F**K"
Have another sweet eighty year old lady say the word "BINGO"

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bo dark

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Mar 5, 2007, 11:52:14 AM3/5/07
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if they have vague rules they can discriminate,those players that say
things that may offend one group would be penalized or thrown out of
the tournament,if a group of people are not liked by the particular
tournament director he can let the offense slide.

if someone says something offensive and no one says anything is the
player penalized?do they not say anything because the fear reprisals
if they do?if a player in frustration blurts out mohammed "the
friggin" prophet i missed my flush will he/she be penalized.

the tournament directors want an easy out,where their not the bad
guy,the television networks are the ones who ultimately decide what is
acceptable to say.

Matt Savage

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Mar 5, 2007, 12:19:29 PM3/5/07
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Yes Bruno, abuse does not have to be defined as language and I am perfectly
happy to tell Matusow that his abuse will not be tolerated but it is much more
acceptable when he calls another pro like Gus a "Donkey" than it is when he does
it to a player he does not know. Phil Hellmuth and I have had many discussions
about his actions and he is far less abusive in the tournaments I run. The new
penalty rule will be much more equitable.

As far af being edited, on the Poker Dome shows we have a one day turn around so
most of the play is shown so therefore it cannot be edited out. He would not
have received a penalty at all in most of the tournaments I run.

Matt Savage

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Mar 5, 2007, 12:23:14 PM3/5/07
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Yes violent threats at all are considered more punishable than swear words. What
do they do to slow rollers in Delaware?

Matt

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A Man Beaten by Jacks

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Mar 5, 2007, 2:20:00 PM3/5/07
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On Mon, 05 Mar 07 17:23:14 GMT, Matt Savage <4307...@recpoker.com> wrote:

>Yes violent threats at all are considered more punishable than swear words. What
>do they do to slow rollers in Delaware?

Buckwheats.

Smorgass Bored

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Mar 5, 2007, 2:30:43 PM3/5/07
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Matt Savage wrote:
> Yes violent threats at all are considered more punishable than swear words.
> What
> do they do to slow rollers in Delaware?
> > Matt


Matt, I'd like your opinion on something that I posted here a year or two ago.
I was in a NLHE poker tournament in a B & M and after a player sucked out on me
with a really bad play, I blurted out  " Jesus CHRIST ! "
The player complained to the dealer and the dealer called the floor. The dealer
explained to floor and I added that I didn't think Jesus Christ was a vulgar
term.
The dealer said that it was THE WAY that I said it. The floor put me on a
'Warning', to be followed by disqualification if it happened again.

My question is..... is it a correct ruling ?
Doug


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Matt Savage

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Mar 5, 2007, 2:37:40 PM3/5/07
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Patti Beadles

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Mar 5, 2007, 2:40:33 PM3/5/07
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In article <2LednSJmdIJ7kHHY...@comcast.com>,
Stephen Jacobs <jac...@comcast.net> wrote:

>I think threats of violence should be under the same rubric.

How about my favorite? "Don't make me scowl at you."

-P
--
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Or just yell, "Hey Patti!" |

Matt Savage

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Mar 5, 2007, 2:42:33 PM3/5/07
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>
>
> Matt, I'd like your opinion on something that I posted here a year or two ago.
> I was in a NLHE poker tournament in a B & M and after a player sucked out on
> me
> with a really bad play, I blurted out  " Jesus CHRIST ! "
> The player complained to the dealer and the dealer called the floor. The
> dealer
> explained to floor and I added that I didn't think Jesus Christ was a vulgar
> term.
> The dealer said that it was THE WAY that I said it. The floor put me on a
> 'Warning', to be followed by disqualification if it happened again.
>
> My question is..... is it a correct ruling ?
> Doug
>

JC is not vulgar, however it could be seen as offensive as many believe you
should not use the lord's name that way. I would have politely asked you not to
do it any more as it obviously offended someone.

Matt Savage


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Matt Savage

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Mar 5, 2007, 2:44:10 PM3/5/07
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On Mar 5 2007 11:40 AM, Patti Beadles wrote:

> In article <2LednSJmdIJ7kHHY...@comcast.com>,


> Stephen Jacobs wrote:
>
> >I think threats of violence should be under the same rubric.
>
> How about my favorite? "Don't make me scowl at you."

Automatic penalty :-)

Matt


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Smorgass Bored

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Mar 5, 2007, 2:45:40 PM3/5/07
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Matt, there was no text in your last reply.

On Mar 5 2007 3:37 PM, Matt Savage wrote:

>
>
> On Mar 5 2007 11:30 AM, Smorgass Bored wrote:
>
> >
> > Matt Savage wrote:
> > > Yes violent threats at all are considered more punishable than swear
> > > words.
> > > What
> > > do they do to slow rollers in Delaware?
> > > > Matt
> >
> >
> > Matt, I'd like your opinion on something that I posted here a year or two
> > ago.
> > I was in a NLHE poker tournament in a B & M and after a player sucked out on
> > me
> > with a really bad play, I blurted out  " Jesus CHRIST ! "
> > The player complained to the dealer and the dealer called the floor. The
> > dealer
> > explained to floor and I added that I didn't think Jesus Christ was a vulgar
> > term.
> > The dealer said that it was THE WAY that I said it. The floor put me on a
> > 'Warning', to be followed by disqualification if it happened again.
> >
> > My question is..... is it a correct ruling ?
> > Doug
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

Doug - Max Culpa on Poker Stars
Feverishly Trying To Outrun The Bots

Smorgass Bored

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Mar 5, 2007, 2:49:18 PM3/5/07
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> > My question is..... is it a correct ruling ?
> > Doug
> >
> JC is not vulgar, however it could be seen as offensive as many believe you
> should not use the lord's name that way. I would have politely asked you not
> to
> do it any more as it obviously offended someone.
> > Matt Savage


Thank you for your reply. I taped Poker Dome and I'm going to watch it in a few
minutes (when I'm knocked out of the Omaha 8/B tournament  :-)


Doug - Max Culpa on Poker Stars
Feverishly Trying To Outrun The Bots

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Bruno

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Mar 5, 2007, 2:49:43 PM3/5/07
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Thanks for the response Matt. One day turnaround time?!?!....wow....that's awful
quick....That would make for a very very quick edit.....

But the real problem is definitions. "If it is offensive to or aimed at any
other player, dealer, or tournament personell...", could be used by any player
to complain regarding another player. Personally, someone picking their nose at
the table and handling the cards before washing their hands is a bit offensive
to me. Am I allowed to call the floor and ask for a penalty to be assessed?
Sure, the example is facetious, and a floorman is going to have to be pragmatic.
But that's my point. "Offensive to" in the workplace has now been so ran through
(with companies so afraid of sexual harrassement and religious lawsuits), that
any time anyone complains in a company of any size, the manager must contact a
HR rep. Or the manager may be considered complicit by the company, and possibly
be submitted for disciplinary actions.

My attitude is this, "what comes out of someone elses mouth says nothing about
me, but says alot about them". As long as it isn't directed towards me. And
that's the philosophy I think out to be adopted.

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Smorgass Bored

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Mar 5, 2007, 2:53:17 PM3/5/07
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 > Thank you for your reply. I taped Poker Dome and I'm going to watch it in a
> few
> minutes (when I'm knocked out of the Omaha 8/B tournament  :-)
> Doug - Max Culpa on Poker Stars

Oh well, I can watch it RIGHT NOW.....  DAMMIT !

bo dark

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Mar 5, 2007, 3:18:50 PM3/5/07
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when used as a profanity it is offensive.what if in a similiar
incident a player said he was "jewed" out of the hand.if a player used
the term "nigger flush" at the table and there weren't any black
people at the table would it be an infraction?as i mentioned in this
thread before what if somebody used mohammed the friggin' prophet
after they got sucked out on,or buddhist priest as a profanity when
men nguyen was at the table.

a simple rule would be no religious,ethnic,or racially offensive terms
at the table,everything else would be alright.

John_Brian_K

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Mar 5, 2007, 3:26:24 PM3/5/07
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This is such a stupid fucking thread!!

lol

j/k

That is a harsh penalty though, but if he knew the rules going in it
is his own fault.

Patti Beadles

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Mar 5, 2007, 3:51:45 PM3/5/07
to
In article <1173123850$962...@recpoker.com>,
Matt Savage <4307...@recpoker.com> wrote:

>> How about my favorite? "Don't make me scowl at you."

>Automatic penalty :-)

*Scowl*

Smorgass Bored

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Mar 5, 2007, 3:53:17 PM3/5/07
to

bo dark wrote:
> when used as a profanity it is offensive.what if in a similiar
> incident a player said he was "jewed" out of the hand.if a player used
> the term "nigger flush" at the table and there weren't any black
> people at the table would it be an infraction?as i mentioned in this
> thread before what if somebody used mohammed the friggin' prophet
> after they got sucked out on,or buddhist priest as a profanity when
> men nguyen was at the table.
>
> a simple rule would be no religious,ethnic,or racially offensive terms
> at the table,everything else would be alright.


When said loudly and fast, " GOTdandruffinmyhair and someofititches" might
warrant a 10 minute penalty too.... imo

Doug - Max Culpa on Poker Stars


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Smorgass Bored

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Mar 5, 2007, 3:55:46 PM3/5/07
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ohn_Brian_K wrote:
> This is such a stupid fucking thread.


Mike Hunt says, "loosen up."
:-)


Doug - Max Culpa on Poker Stars


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Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster

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Mar 5, 2007, 4:01:38 PM3/5/07
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On Mar 4 2007 11:37 PM, Matt Savage wrote:

> Totally agree it is too harsh, that is why we changed the rule in the TDA. I
had
> given this penalty in 2 previous events and therefore needed to continue
through
> the rest of the series as it would not be fair for the two others I penalized
> with time.

I'm glad you changed it. I remember a situation at a WSOP final table
(last year??? or the year before) where someone called for a penalty
against Vinny Vinh when they were heads up at the final table. Seems like
too much of an opportunity for angle shooting to me.

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Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster

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Mar 5, 2007, 4:50:38 PM3/5/07
to
On Mar 5 2007 11:42 AM, Matt Savage wrote:

> >
> >
> > Matt, I'd like your opinion on something that I posted here a year or two
ago.
> > I was in a NLHE poker tournament in a B & M and after a player sucked out
on
> > me
> > with a really bad play, I blurted out " Jesus CHRIST ! "
> > The player complained to the dealer and the dealer called the floor. The
> > dealer
> > explained to floor and I added that I didn't think Jesus Christ was a
vulgar
> > term.
> > The dealer said that it was THE WAY that I said it. The floor put me on a
> > 'Warning', to be followed by disqualification if it happened again.
> >
> > My question is..... is it a correct ruling ?
> > Doug
> >
> JC is not vulgar, however it could be seen as offensive as many believe you
> should not use the lord's name that way.

Not trying to start anything (this time), but wouldn't you have to first
believe that JC IS the lord first? If you do not believe he is, then
saying JC can't be offensive. If you have to consider what each and every
person considers offensive you won't be able to say anything (which is why
I thought there was a specific "f-word" rule.

In the 2005 ME I was at a table with that foul mouth chick that was
married to the NY Met (you know, the chick who goes on Howard Stern all
the time...I can't remember her name). Anyway, she got a penalty when the
dealer heard her whisper "what the fuck was that guy thinking" to her
neighbor. When she got back she said "so I can't say the f-word but I can
say cunt, bitch, shit, asshole, or anything like that?" then she called
the dealer a cunt. She got warned not to talk like that anymore or she'd
get another penalty. The "ESPN Hollywood" cameras were on her the whole
time and egging her on.

> I would have politely asked you not to
> do it any more as it obviously offended someone.
>
> Matt Savage

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Randy Hudson

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Mar 5, 2007, 6:14:10 PM3/5/07
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In article <1173072977$962...@recpoker.com>,
Matt Savage <4307...@recpoker.com> wrote:

> Before each taping I warn the payers that due to the fact that this is a
> televised event swearing is not permitted.

I don't understand the connection between these things. It's not televised
live. If necessary to comply with FCC regulations any offensive language
can be bleeped out, including language which is not normally subject to any
penalty when used at the poker table.

Also, I assume that "swearing" is being used in lieu of the more complete
list provided to the players in the event, as swearing ("I swear God wants
you to win") is both permissible on broadcast TV and acceptable at poker.

The fact that you found yourself rooting for a player should tell you that
you yourself feel the rule, and its application, were unfair. The arbiter
of a contest should not have a rooting interest.

An angle-shot is using a rule for a purpose not intended, to afford an
advantage to the person shooting the angle. I'd say speeding up play while
one's only opponent is on an enforced absence meets this definition.

--
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browser

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Mar 5, 2007, 6:55:12 PM3/5/07
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"and the other player decided to speed up on top of it"

This may be a dumb question, but what does that mean? If you're the only
guy at the table, how do you "speed it up"? Do you mean he didn't take as
much time to decide whether he should fold or raise as when the other guy
was sitting at the table? :)
Just wondering.
Thanks.

"Matt Savage" <4307...@recpoker.com> wrote in message
news:1173072977$962...@recpoker.com...
>
> Another first in my career happened during the taping of show 41. Before

> each
> taping I warn the payers that due to the fact that this is a televised
> event

> swearing is not permitted. So, the current procedure is to give a 10
> minute
> penalty during the first three rounds and 5 after that. When the
> tournament
> reached heads up player Mark Thevis blurted out those four little letters
> that
> start with F and I was forced to give him a 5 minute penalty. At that
> point the
> blinds were 8,000-16,000 and despite him being the current chip leader I
> knew
> that he was going to get hurt really bad. This is not a situation that I
> like
> even though I do get more camera time when this happens :-). Unfortunately
> this
> is speed poker and the other player decided to speed up on top of it. By
> the
> time he returned he was down to 30,000 of the total 300,000 in play. I
> found
> myself almost pulling for him to get back in the match and when he double
> up he
> was one more double up from being almost even and then it happened, he
> said it
> again. I could not believe it and asked both dealers if it was true and
> when the
> other player chimed in that he did say it all I could do was let him be
> blinded
> out. He denied saying it and I even had to go to the tape but when I got
> to the
> production truck the producer said it was a fact. As I stated before this
> was a
> first for me and I think it was a first for televised poker. He did
> apologize at
> the time but all of the sudden I got the feeling I was the bad guy in the
> situation. As he walked out into the audience he received a round of
> applause. I
> on the other hand met with production and others that said I did the right
> thing
> and thanked me for standing my ground. Mark also sent me an email later in
> the
> week and apologized which was a really classy thing to do.
> I generally do not use the F-word penalty in most of my events because
> it is
> way too subjective of when it gets reported and additionally there are far
> more
> offensive words in my opinion that do not make the list. My rule about

> abusive
> language is simple, if it is offensive to or aimed at any other player,
> dealer,

> or tournament personnel that a penalty will be assessed. Due to the recent
> rule
> change that took place at the TDA meeting, time penalties will no longer
> be
> assessed. There was far too much inconsistency going on with the current
> way
> penalties were timed. If a player or players felt that a penalty was not
> deserved or worse if their friend was on a penalty they could stall and
> negate
> the effect of the penalty or worse still speed up and decimate the player
> on the
> penalty. The rule now reads that penalties will be in stages 1-2-3-4 and
> at a
> stage one penalty a player will miss one hand for every player that is
> currently
> at the table. This will now make it more equitable for final table
> situations
> as well. Please send any comments or questions about the news rules to
> Askth...@pokertda.com. The complete list of new TDA rules can be found
> at
> www.pokertda.com .
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> New Feature: Mark All As Read! - http://www.recpoker.com


bo dark

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 7:51:13 PM3/5/07
to
On Mar 5, 3:50 pm, "Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster"

-Not trying to start anything (this time), but wouldn't you have to
first
-believe that JC IS the lord first? If you do not believe he is, then
-saying JC can't be offensive. If you have to consider what each and
every
-person considers offensive you won't be able to say anything (which
is why
-I thought there was a specific "f-word" rule


the f-word is just a profanity,at least it use to be,while it might
offend someone,it's not personal unless directed at an
individual.yes,JC can be offensive,just not to you.everybody didn't
grow up in the same house,neighborhood or culture,if they don't draw a
line there shouldn't be a penalty for any language,it should be a
language free for all.


XaQ Morphy

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 7:52:27 PM3/5/07
to
> Another first in my career happened during the taping of show 41. Before each
> taping I warn the payers that due to the fact that this is a televised event
> swearing is not permitted.  So, the current procedure is to give a 10 minute

http://amishrakefight.org/gfy

Well not you personally Matt. Just that I like that link :)

Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com

------- 

bo dark

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 8:04:26 PM3/5/07
to

it boils down to some people want to offend others because they see no
offense,while they don't want to be offended themselves.you can't have
double standards in rules,you can't have certain groups protected,and
others fair game.

Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 8:06:53 PM3/5/07
to

> -Not trying to start anything (this time), but wouldn't you have to
> first
> -believe that JC IS the lord first? If you do not believe he is, then
> -saying JC can't be offensive. If you have to consider what each and
> every
> -person considers offensive you won't be able to say anything (which
> is why
> -I thought there was a specific "f-word" rule
>
>
> the f-word is just a profanity,at least it use to be,while it might
> offend someone,it's not personal unless directed at an
> individual.yes,JC can be offensive,just not to you.everybody didn't
> grow up in the same house,neighborhood or culture,if they don't draw a
> line there shouldn't be a penalty for any language,it should be a
> language free for all.

The "f-word" just became profanity within the last century or so. They
used it frequently in the middle ages. What if I said if someone said "I
hate beer" I was greatly offended? That's right, we didn't all grow up in
the same environment. THEREFORE, words are just words, and unless an
epithet is directed at somebody in particular, there should be no penalty
(if someone says something MEANT to be insulting to somebody else, even
"you are an idiot donkey" that should be a penalty).

I was playing a tourney at Hustler in LA once, and somebody at the table
lost a hand and said "Jesus Fucking Christ". Another (young) player
called the floor (Jan) and asked him to assess a penalty. Jan said "this
casino is owned by Larry Flynt, and Larry Flynt is all about freedom of
speech, so unless what he said was directed at another player there will
be no penalty, now play fucking cards."


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Now its over, I'm dead and I haven't done anything I want,
or I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do!
If you must: brewmaster at brewcam dot com

_____________________________________________________________________ 

RazzO

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Mar 5, 2007, 8:27:08 PM3/5/07
to
Priceless!
Jan Fisher? I think not.

I used to tune in to Deadwood occasionally just to hear the dialog. It is
sooooo funny.

On Mar 5 2007 5:06 PM, Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
> I was playing a tourney at Hustler in LA once, and somebody at the table
> lost a hand and said "Jesus Fucking Christ". Another (young) player
> called the floor (Jan) and asked him to assess a penalty. Jan said "this
> casino is owned by Larry Flynt, and Larry Flynt is all about freedom of
> speech, so unless what he said was directed at another player there will
> be no penalty, now play fucking cards."


RazzO
email:ticorazz (at) yahoo.com
http://www.razzo.com

----- 
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bo dark

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 8:32:05 PM3/5/07
to
On Mar 5, 7:06 pm, "Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster"


so if a player used the word nigger but didn't direct it at anyone
larry flynt wouldn't have a problem with it?words don't have to be
directed at someone to be offensive,larry ought to at least say all
words are acceptable in my casino.the casino belongs to larry flynt he
can do what he wants.larry flynt doesn't really believe in free speech
for others,just those that share his views.

Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 8:29:54 PM3/5/07
to
On Mar 5 2007 5:27 PM, RazzO wrote:

> Priceless!
> Jan Fisher? I think not.

No, Jan...um, something (it's a guy). He's the tourney director at
Hustler.

>
> I used to tune in to Deadwood occasionally just to hear the dialog. It is
> sooooo funny.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 5 2007 5:06 PM, Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:
> > I was playing a tourney at Hustler in LA once, and somebody at the table
> > lost a hand and said "Jesus Fucking Christ". Another (young) player
> > called the floor (Jan) and asked him to assess a penalty. Jan said "this
> > casino is owned by Larry Flynt, and Larry Flynt is all about freedom of
> > speech, so unless what he said was directed at another player there will
> > be no penalty, now play fucking cards."
>
>
> RazzO
> email:ticorazz (at) yahoo.com
> http://www.razzo.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Now its over, I'm dead and I haven't done anything I want,
or I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do!
If you must: brewmaster at brewcam dot com

--- 

Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 8:44:04 PM3/5/07
to

> so if a player used the word nigger but didn't direct it at anyone
> larry flynt wouldn't have a problem with it?words don't have to be
> directed at someone to be offensive,larry ought to at least say all
> words are acceptable in my casino.the casino belongs to larry flynt he
> can do what he wants.larry flynt doesn't really believe in free speech
> for others,just those that share his views.

Nigger doesn't really apply. Once black people started using it they lost
the right to complain about other people using it. I find it funny that
they've tried for years to find an equally offensive term to call white
people, but none of them are even remotely offensive. Limey (for English
people), honky, whitey, whatever, none of them bother me in the slightest.
Call me dogshit, I wouldn't care about that either.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Now its over, I'm dead and I haven't done anything I want,
or I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do!
If you must: brewmaster at brewcam dot com

_____________________________________________________________________ 

bo dark

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 9:07:22 PM3/5/07
to
On Mar 5, 7:44 pm, "Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster"

i try not to offend anyone on purpose,but i'll stir the pot every now
and then,i find the use of JC as a profanity offensive but i don't
want some PC unwritten rule against it,i just don't want double
standards used in tournament situations when other offensive terms are
used.the penalty should be the same.

Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 9:14:27 PM3/5/07
to

> i try not to offend anyone on purpose,but i'll stir the pot every now
> and then,i find the use of JC as a profanity offensive but i don't
> want some PC unwritten rule against it,i just don't want double
> standards used in tournament situations when other offensive terms are
> used.the penalty should be the same.

I do agree with you completely, but where would you draw the line? Right
now, the line is drawn at the f-word, and then if something offensive is
said directly to another person. If you start extending it things will
get out of hand. I say, leave your offended feelings at the door when you
sit down.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Now its over, I'm dead and I haven't done anything I want,
or I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do!
If you must: brewmaster at brewcam dot com

______________________________________________________________________ 

pltrgyst

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 10:07:14 PM3/5/07
to
On Mon, 05 Mar 07 19:42:33 GMT, Matt Savage <4307...@recpoker.com> wrote:

>JC is not vulgar, however it could be seen as offensive as many believe you
>should not use the lord's name that way. I would have politely asked you not to
>do it any more as it obviously offended someone.

*Anything* you say could offend someone. The only way to avoid being completely
subjective in this regard is to either promulgate a list of specific banned
words, or to enforce a list of acceptable poker terms as the only words that can
be uttered.

There is no counterpoint to the above -- it is plain, simple, unadulterated,
fact.

-- Larry

pltrgyst

unread,
Mar 5, 2007, 10:15:05 PM3/5/07
to
Doesn't either one of you two guys know how to trim before posting?

-- Larry

Maverick

unread,
Mar 6, 2007, 2:33:05 AM3/6/07
to
Christians don't worry how offensive it is forcing their public
prayers on everyone, so why should it be offensive to say "Jesus
Christ"

Personally, I'd have said "Jesus H Christ" No sense in leaving out
his middle initial.

Smorgass Bored

unread,
Mar 6, 2007, 7:00:17 AM3/6/07
to


Jesus H. Christ ?  What's the 'H' stand for ?
Hillary ?

Doug - Max Culpa on Poker Stars

Feverishly Trying To Outrun The Bots

_______________________________________________________________

John_Brian_K

unread,
Mar 6, 2007, 11:17:51 AM3/6/07
to
> I used to tune in to Deadwood occasionally just to hear the dialog. It is
> sooooo funny.

DEADWOOD is the best show on TV. Too bad I do not have HBO and have
to wait for the DVD to come out for the 3rd season, but I have the
first 2.

And the dialogue is priceless.

XaQ Morphy

unread,
Mar 6, 2007, 12:30:13 PM3/6/07
to
> Doesn't either one of you two guys know how to trim before posting?

Nope, obviously not. They've been asked several times in the past, so
they are either too rude or too stupid. Sure makes the threads easier to
read though, because if I see 5-6 previous messages quoted, I figure the
poster doesn't want his post read, and I skip it.

Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com

Maverick

unread,
Mar 6, 2007, 12:54:18 PM3/6/07
to
On Mar 6, 4:00?am, Smorgass Bored <43082...@recpoker.com> wrote:
> Jesus H. Christ ?? What's the 'H' stand for ?
> Hillary ?

Contrary to popular belief, the "H" doesn't stand for Holy. It stands
for Hank. You might recall the enscription on his cross was "INRI"
which is ancient "Henry"

Bottom line, everyone is worshipping Hank.

Go check Wikipedia.org. It's in there.

Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster

unread,
Mar 6, 2007, 1:56:43 PM3/6/07
to
On Mar 6 2007 9:30 AM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> > Doesn't either one of you two guys know how to trim before posting?
>
> Nope, obviously not. They've been asked several times in the past, so
> they are either too rude or too stupid. Sure makes the threads easier to
> read though, because if I see 5-6 previous messages quoted, I figure the
> poster doesn't want his post read, and I skip it.
>
> Morphy
> http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com

You guys are fucking lazy. You can scroll to the bottom of the post with a
flick of one finger, and read the response.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Now its over, I'm dead and I haven't done anything I want,
or I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do!
If you must: brewmaster at brewcam dot com

---- 

CHarrison100

unread,
Mar 6, 2007, 2:24:23 PM3/6/07
to


On Mar 6 2007 1:56 PM, Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster wrote:

> On Mar 6 2007 9:30 AM, XaQ Morphy wrote:
>
> > > Doesn't either one of you two guys know how to trim before posting?
> >
> > Nope, obviously not. They've been asked several times in the past, so
> > they are either too rude or too stupid. Sure makes the threads easier to
> > read though, because if I see 5-6 previous messages quoted, I figure the
> > poster doesn't want his post read, and I skip it.
> >
> > Morphy

> > http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com/


>
> You guys are fucking lazy. You can scroll to the bottom of the post with a
> flick of one finger, and read the response.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> Now its over, I'm dead and I haven't done anything I want,
> or I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do!
> If you must: brewmaster at brewcam dot com


Yeah


Chris
----------------------
No point in being pessimistic. It wouldn't work anyway. - 6ballman - Feb 2007

_______________________________________________________________
* New Release: RecPoker.com v2.2 - http://www.recpoker.com

XaQ Morphy

unread,
Mar 6, 2007, 5:31:37 PM3/6/07
to
> You guys are fucking lazy. You can scroll to the bottom of the post with a
> flick of one finger, and read the response.

And you're too lazy to trim off parts of your post. Too lazy, too rude,
or too stupid. There's no other possibility.

I don't mind not reading posts from people who are too lazy, rude, or
stupid to trim them. Chances are I'm not missing anything.

Morphy
http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com

_______________________________________________________________________ 
RecGroups : the community-oriented newsreader : www.recgroups.com


Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster

unread,
Mar 6, 2007, 5:33:57 PM3/6/07
to
On Mar 6 2007 2:31 PM, XaQ Morphy wrote:

> > You guys are fucking lazy. You can scroll to the bottom of the post with a
> > flick of one finger, and read the response.
>
> And you're too lazy to trim off parts of your post. Too lazy, too rude,
> or too stupid. There's no other possibility.
>
> I don't mind not reading posts from people who are too lazy, rude, or
> stupid to trim them. Chances are I'm not missing anything.
>
> Morphy
> http://donkeymanifesto.blogspot.com

Personally, I like the threads to be fully quoted from beginning to end.
That way, I can simply go to the last message in a thread and read the
whole thing all the way through. I don't have to open one then the next
then the next. If there are multiple subthreads, I can simply read the
last one in each subthread. That only works if nobody comes along and
trims first.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Now its over, I'm dead and I haven't done anything I want,
or I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do!
If you must: brewmaster at brewcam dot com

----- 

Patti Beadles

unread,
Mar 7, 2007, 3:25:58 PM3/7/07
to
In article <lr61c4x...@recgroups.com>,

Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster <ae2...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:

>Personally, I like the threads to be fully quoted from beginning to end.
>That way, I can simply go to the last message in a thread and read the
>whole thing all the way through.

You may like it that way, but that's not the accepted Usenet
convention and etiquette that has been in place for over
two decades.

It used to be that news injection software would reject any
post that had more quoted text than original. Sadly, that
has fallen by the wayside, though it worked exceptionally well.

Today's rapid Usenet propagation and relatively long hold times
on newsservers means thata there's really almost no need for
quoting at all.

-Patti
--
Patti Beadles, Oakland, CA |
pattib~pattib.org |
http://www.pattib.org/ | http://www.urbanscapephoto.com
Or just yell, "Hey Patti!" |

Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster

unread,
Mar 7, 2007, 3:35:41 PM3/7/07
to
On Mar 7 2007 12:25 PM, Patti Beadles wrote:

> In article <lr61c4x...@recgroups.com>,
> Alan Gilbert aka brewmaster <ae2...@webnntp.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Personally, I like the threads to be fully quoted from beginning to end.
> >That way, I can simply go to the last message in a thread and read the
> >whole thing all the way through.
>
> You may like it that way, but that's not the accepted Usenet
> convention and etiquette that has been in place for over
> two decades.
>
> It used to be that news injection software would reject any
> post that had more quoted text than original. Sadly, that
> has fallen by the wayside, though it worked exceptionally well.
>
> Today's rapid Usenet propagation and relatively long hold times
> on newsservers means thata there's really almost no need for
> quoting at all.
>

You see, though, that not all of us use newsreaders that require that we
download all these messages when we want to read the group. Most
"regular" newsreader programs at least download all the new headers, if
not the whole article, then thread them, and whatnot, and you have to
wait. Some of us, for groups like rgp, read them through an web portal
(and yes, I know full well how to read them other ways) because it is
faster, cleaner, and keeps info on what I've read across multiple
computers without me doing anything. Also, I don't have to wait for
things to load except the one article I want, so the extra quoted text
doesn't bother me.

--- 

Patti Beadles

unread,
Mar 7, 2007, 3:42:22 PM3/7/07